Why Does the Clinton Machine Want Us to Leave?
I apologize ahead of time for the somewhat lightweight diary, but I decided to make it a diary rather than a comment b/c I want a larger number of people to see it and help me speculate on this question.
I came back to the Democratic party only to vote for Bernie, and had no intention of staying within it any longer than I had to. However, before lots of us make a move our enemy--and make no mistake, Hillary Clinton is our enemy--wants us to make, I think it's worth trying to answer the question in my diary title. And I'd like other people to have input, so that perhaps we can get farther together than I've been able to speculating on my own.
Why does Clinton want us to leave the Democratic party?
Why does her faction want us to leave so bad?
Because, I guarantee you, nobody in politics alienates a group this consistently for this long without it being on purpose.
Hillary is evil, and lacks charisma, but she isn't stupid. And neither are her 6-figure (or 7-figure?) consultants. They all know that we will leave. And they keep doing everything they can to make sure we will.
Even David Axelrod, an establishment guy if there ever was one, believes that the Hillary campaign is deliberately alienating us. He doesn't understand why the Hillary machine is behaving the way it is; he said on Twitter that he "didn't get" how Hillary could talk about party unity and then have her top aide get up and talk about how "destructive" the Sanders campaign is immediately afterward. Axelrod said "I don't get it."
They know exactly what they're doing. They want us to leave. As Anton Bursch said to me about 3 years ago: "I can't wait till you Greens get out of the party so we can bring the moderate Republicans in."
That's the only thing slowing my departure. Because I don't like making the move my enemy wants me to make.
I'll probably leave anyway--I only came back to vote for Bernie--but I'd like to know WHY she wants us out before I go.
Obviously, she wants to replace us with Bush Republicans and other Republicans who fear Trump, thus completing the transformation of the Democratic party she and Bill began in the late 80s....
But I find it highly doubtful she's going to convince a lot of rank-and-file Republican voters to fill the ranks we leave empty. Most of them don't seem to be buying; #NeverTrump doesn't seem as powerful as #NeverHillary.
And to the extent that Republican rank-and-file voters are crossing the party line to vote for a Democrat, they're voting for Bernie, not her.
So--is she intending to do without ALL of us? Create a coalition based on African-Americans over 45, white Democrats over 60, and Jeb Bush's donor list? And, I guess, maybe 1/2 to 2/3 of the Latino voters (that's a VERY rough estimate b/c I find the Latino vote difficult to read right now--for one thing they don't vote in a block quite the way African-Americans often do--and also, I'm seeing some changes in Latino support for Hillary. I think maybe word of Honduras is spreading).
Any ruminations, speculations, or information about this would be welcome.
Comments
afternoon al...
perhaps another question is, if bernie wins, does that empower the 99% to steal the party back?
bernie has (perhaps unintentionally) demonstrated at least 2 things, the party is deeply corrupt and the 99% can operate (even in our rigged media environment) without the 1%'s corporate money. what is still at issue is whether the 99% can sufficiently compete as independents, being barred from public debates and ballot access.
then, of course, the big question is, "what do we win?" can the change we need be made through the existing political institutions available to us through electoral processes?
Yo joe,
I won't ruin the party. Just seeing some contradictions. An original kewpie doll would be a good thing to win. Maybe everybody can get their own kewpie doll.
heh...
there's probably no need to worry. from what i've been seeing, hillary intends to steal this election come hell or high water. by the time that she's done, no self-respecting progressive will want to be a democrat anymore.
I'm sick of hearing...
She will be the nominee...again and again and again for the last year. If she can't win, she'll steal it, and she's tryin' her damnedest. Let's wait and see. Saying it over and over may not make it true?
“Until justice rolls down like water and righteousness like a mighty stream.”
That's a point--
Power creates its own reality. Understanding that reality, the fact that it exists and is powerful is necessary, but remaining confined imaginatively w/in that possibility is not useful.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
And that sense of power brings out
the two year olds we all were, getting that concept for the first time. A deep-memory. Deeper than the guilt-learning memory.
Hey! my dear friends or soon-to-be's, JtC could use the donations to keep this site functioning for those of us who can still see the life preserver or flotsam in the water.
What's to steal?
It's Sunday, and I'm an Episcopalian, so let me provide an analogy.
Just like the DNC, the ECA has a national, multi-level quasi-democratic structure. We have infrastructure accumulated over the years that enable our various missions, from parish buildings to soup kitchens to seminaries.
The big difference between the two, though, is that the ECA has actual membership requirements. You have to state publicly what you believe, and those beliefs are pretty well documented. You also have to show up three times a year and contribute something (which doesn't have to be money BTW).
The DNC has none of this. I know, because I only got naturalised last Fall and I just filled in a box top so I could caucus for Bernie. So when people talk about "Real Democrats", the mathematician in me replies "Define your terms!"
In fact, my inner mathematician looks at political parties and just sees attractors in political phase space. These attractors move around in response to the environment and political parties change with them. The fun part comes when we head into a non-linear shift in phase space from one equilibrium surface to another (this is called catastrophe theory). I think we are looking at one of these shifts right now, and we need to get on it if we can.
So I don't have any problem with taking over the Democratic party because as far as I can tell, they are just a pile of useful infrastructure (So is the GOP, but they are currently further away in phase space). Put another way, the DNC is a nice, fat calorie bomb and we are hungry, so why not?
We can’t save the world by playing by the rules, because the rules have to be changed.
- Greta Thunberg
Because previous attempts to take over the
infrastructure have been colossal wastes of time, energy, money, and morale.
In other words, we're hungry, and we think we see a nice, fat calorie bomb, but it might be laced with arsenic.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
I turn 66 this month so that makes about 45 years that I've
been involved in efforts to take over the Democratic Party by left/progressives. Did the whole bit within the DFL of MN, for years was a delegate to district convention and everything. We had a few victories along the way, most notably Senator Wellstone who, so we were told, didn't stand a snowball's chance in hell.
But what is the end result of all that effort?
We lost. And we lost big.
No, not all at once, but over the years, the Democratic Party has gone further and further to right. It is now so far to the right that it is more Republican than the old-style Republicans used to be.
Insanity is doing the same thing and expecting different results.
It's long past time to give up on the Democratic Party and form a third party. The Democratic Party is worn-out, corrupt, rotten to the core and it stinks to high heaven.
With all the corruption in this primary, voting for Bernie will very likely be the last time that I ever vote for anyone running on the Democratic Party ticket. I already don't vote for US Rep Hinojosa of TX because he voted to cut food stamps in a district which extends down to the border, one of the poorest areas in the entire USA. I'v had it with those assholes who screw poor people and then want call themselves progressives.
No more, we have got to stop supporting that with our votes if WE want to call ourselves progressives.
To build a new party, the Greens are a good place to start, but a new party will have to be much broader than the Greens and will have to include progressive labor unions, Democratic Socialists, etc.
Never be deceived that the rich will allow you to vote away their wealth.-Lucy Parsons
Can the Greens change their name? Strong platform on
Keep in the ground and sustainability, but the other planks as well. The new Peoples' Independent Party or something like it. Will draw from many groups, movements, and disaffecteds as well as middle class people screwed out of jobs, homes and retirement.
You may choose to look the other way, but you can never say again you did not know. ~ William Wiberforce
If you can donate, please! POP Money is available for bank-to-bank transfers. Email JtC to make a monthly donation.
Of course they can but whether or not they would be willing to
I can't say. I'm not even a member.
But I agree, the name makes that Party too narrow.
Building coalitions are never easy. But we have to start somewhere.
Never be deceived that the rich will allow you to vote away their wealth.-Lucy Parsons
But if they call themselves
the "People's" anthing, they will get slandered as being "commies." Many of the neofascists I have worked with get off on calling my resident state, "The People's Republic of MD," and I get really sick of it.
“Socialism never took root in America because the poor see themselves not as an exploited proletariat but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires.” - John Steinbeck
Not necessarily.
I have a (temporary) alliance with Sanders and his supporters. It could become permanent under certain conditions. The political parties, to me, seem close to irredeemable, and should probably be trashed and replaced w/other infrastructure regardless.
People are awfully focused on the fact that Sanders is "a Democrat" even though he obviously, and admittedly, only joined the party to get access to the MSM.
He was an independent for forty years. He seems pretty clear on how to be both inside and outside of the party, since he's caucused w/them, done the amendment thing, and yet remained independent on important issues like the Iraq War. Do you think he behaves like a Democrat? Which Democrat would dare use the word "socialist" to describe himself, (even though he's using it in an outdated way)? Hell, which Democrat would dare to call himself or herself "liberal?" When you look at his interactions with the media, or with money, does he look like a Democrat to you?
Hillary and her peeps say he isn't "a real Democrat," and she's basically right. Of course, neither is she.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
While in the Senate he's voted democratic party lines
over 96% of the time which is more than many "real" democrats. Sounds like a Democrat to me.
Why, b/c they voted w/the Republicans instead?
You want to know why I think Bernie isn't fundamentally a tool of the Democratic establishment?
Because the media has tried, simultaneously, to black him out and to swift-boat him--ALL of the media. The media response to him is closer to their response to Occupy than their response to a politician, even an insurgent one.
Because he doesn't have the relationship to the money/donor structure that all the rest of them have--and, as Joe said, he's revealed the fact--that I certainly didn't know--that the 99% can raise massive bucks. If we can raise it for Sanders, why can't we raise a still substantial fraction of that amount for other pursuits? No Democratic tool would want to reveal that truth.
Because of the way his candidacy has outed people like John Lewis, Sherrod Brown, Rachel Maddow, Chris Hayes, and even, I'd argue, Elizabeth Warren and Keith Olbermann, as establishment tools. Ringers are rarely outed, corruption rarely revealed to this extent and level, without real resistance. No Democratic tool would want to unmask these ringers.
However, does this mean Sanders won't fold? No. He might.
Most Sanders supporters respond to that possibility with either "That would suck. But I'd keep pushing for what *I* want," or "Shrug. I'm not in it for Sanders."
Ultimately, who the fuck cares if Sanders IS a Democratic establishment tool? A people's movement is here. We can try to make it persistent, or not.
The tequila bottle and the beach are always still there.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
Yes
"I’m a human being, first and foremost, and as such I’m for whoever and whatever benefits humanity as a whole.” —Malcolm X
I clearly see Bernie using the Democratic party
He's always been an independent, and he's still an independent even as he runs for the Democratic party nomination. That drives partisan Democrats crazy, and I can understand why to some extent. He's Not One of Them. But that's his appeal to a wide swath of the electorate -- he's not one of them.
What Bernie does after the primaries are over is critical, I think. I don't see him folding and going all in for Hillary. He may continue to campaign, but I expect him to do it on his own terms, continuing to build his movement. He'll support Clinton to the extent that she embraces his issues, but I don't see him running around the country lying to his supporters about what Clinton is all about.
He got into this race to organize the movement that's now behind him, and to that extent he's won. I don't see him going back to Burlington and leaving it be. Bernie's old, and he's got to be thinking about what happens to this movement after his campaign is over. I suspect the reason he's not blowing his money on CA teevee ads is that he wants to have a goodly stash left over to set the movement on its way forward beyond him. After Philadelphia, I think he'll be preparing the movement to fly away from the nest of his campaign, with a lot of air under its wings.
Please help support caucus99percent!
The movement needs a leader!
Bernie is our leader now. I honestly believe that someone has to lead! If not Bernie, I say Nina Turner or Tulsi Gabbard. Nina is dynamic and strong! I love her energy! Without a dynamic leader the movement will die!
More than just one: a group of leaders. I never saw anything
worse than Pres. Obama at the Gulf by himself. Awful imaging. We need strength and smarts. Tactical and strategic. Social and technical. Vertical and horizontal.
We need a structure to put in place. And fast. Or it will be the Tequila bottle and the beach will come to us.
You may choose to look the other way, but you can never say again you did not know. ~ William Wiberforce
If you can donate, please! POP Money is available for bank-to-bank transfers. Email JtC to make a monthly donation.
(Adopts corny Russian accent)
"In Soviet Russia, the beach comes to you!!!"
Wow did I just date myself!
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
Hell NO! (n/t)
Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy
pfft labels
You can call me anything you want, just don't call me late for dinner. This is much more pragmatic exercise to wrest power from the neoliberals and neocons of all color and stripe. Yesterday's politics and the labels they used to divide are useless today.
"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon
To me dk, the Dem party is the opposition, even the
enemy. It is a war party, a party for imperialism and Wall Street and the ruling class. So people supporting it are in effect the opposition as well. Many on here including you are saying they're done with the Democratic party and I'm just trying to clarify exactly what that means when they will still be voting for the opposition's politicians. The Democratic party is part of the problem.
Is it the whole party???? probably pretty much...
I see the Dem Party as a body that was invaded by the neoliberal body snatchers. If we kill the body snatchers, they'll leave the body; and it will come back to life. Franken and Sherrod Brown are proof of how badly infested the body is.
I am not wedded to any party. All I know Al is that none of the labels matter. Our language has been so convoluted by these very same body snatchers that nothing means what it is suppose to. It is why I say not to get hung up on the labels. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if you and I totally agree, are saying the same thing, only we can't see it because of our chosen words.
"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon
Some will, some (perhaps most) won’t. n/t
It's the third way
and if they purge the left from the Democratic Party it becomes the only way. On The Third Way website they brag that the NYT calls them 'radical centrist's'. The Clinton machine and the global oligarchical collectivists who own and run both parties are arrogant and think this is the inevitable way forward globally. They are a duopoly, the donkey and the elephant puppets strings are pulled by the same powerful interests.
The Democratic wing of the party after being hornswoggled since the formation of the DLC is just not buying it anymore. They have gone too far and everybody who's brain isn't washed or a coward knows what they are about. Bush's and Clinton's along with the Democratic PR guy with a pocket full of hope have underestimated the people's resistance to a corporate fascistic violent world.
Like Markos they want the lefty trouble makers gone. They want to freep the party and get a new docile, loyalist authoritarian loving demographic.They do not care about low turn out, it works for them if only the party Royalists, the fearful, and ignorant bother to vote.
It gives me the hopies when I look at the 43% and rising number of Indies. Over 100,000 Oregon voters switched to Dems. in order to vote for Bernie. I think the Democratic party is going the way of the dodo and will become extinct. Politics are not static and political parties come and go. Their arrogance is going to do them in. I hope. I'm no longer a Democrat and other then a handful of candidates on every level city state and national I refuse to vote for them.
In other words they are seriously deficient
in principles and ethics. We are better people than them.
Beware the bullshit factories.
A really important document that has been scrubbed by DLCers
but is recoverable by the Wayback Machine, (heh-it appears they still don't grok how the intertoobs work, right Hillary?) shows the flagrant conservatism, even Libertarian ideology of the Third Way, called the Hyde Park Declaration. If you haven't read it, I heartily recommend reading the whole thing to get a whiff of their talking points, weaselly lawyerly parsing of what is essentially a plan to rob the proletariat of our commons. To completely grasp the depth of the depravity, read the whole thing. The link is here:
https://web.archive.org/web/20050904011524/http://www.dlc.org/ndol_ci.cf...
And here's a good example:
"Where We Stand
In keeping with our party's grand tradition, we reaffirm Jefferson's belief in individual liberty and capacity for self-government. We endorse Jackson's credo of equal opportunity for all, special privileges for none. We embrace Roosevelt's thirst for innovation and Kennedy's summons to civic duty. And we intend to carry on Clinton's insistence upon new means to achieve progressive ideals.
As New Democrats, we believe in a Third Way that rejects the old left-right debate and affirms America's basic bargain: opportunity for all, responsibility from all, and community of all.
We believe in free enterprise to stimulate economic innovation and growth and in public activism to ensure that everyone can share in America's prosperity.
We believe that government's proper role in the New Economy is to equip working Americans with new tools for economic success and security.
We believe in expanding trade and investment because we must be a party of economic progress, not economic reaction.
We believe that global markets demand global rules and institutions to ensure fair competition and to provide checks and balances on private power.
We believe that fiscal discipline is fundamental to sustained economic growth as well as responsible government.
We believe that a progressive tax system is the only fair way to pay for government.
We believe the Democratic Party's mission is to expand opportunity, not government.
We believe that education must be America's great equalizer, and we will not abandon our public schools or tolerate their failure.
We believe that all Americans must have access to health insurance in a system that balances governmental and individual responsibility.
We believe in preventing crime and punishing criminals and that America's criminal justice system should be rooted in and responsive to the communities it serves.
We believe in a new social compact that requires and rewards work in exchange for public assistance and that ensures that no family with a full-time worker will live in poverty.
We believe that public policies should reinforce marriage, promote family, demand parental responsibility, and discourage out-of-wedlock births.
We believe in shifting the focus of America's anti-poverty and social insurance programs from transferring wealth to creating wealth.
We believe in replacing top-down bureaucracy with more flexible public institutions that enable citizens and communities to solve their own problems.
We believe government should harness the forces of choice and competition to achieve public goals.
We believe in enhancing the role that civic entrepreneurs, voluntary groups, and religious institutions play in tackling America's social ills.
We believe in strengthening environmental protection by giving communities the flexibility to tackle new challenges that cannot be solved with top-down mandates.
We believe government must combat discrimination on the basis of race, creed, gender, or sexual orientation; defend civil liberties; and stay out of our private lives.
We believe that the common civic ideals Americans share transcend group differences and forge unity from diversity.
We believe that abortion should be safe, legal, and rare.
We believe in progressive internationalism -- the bold exercise of U.S. leadership to foster peace, prosperity, and democracy.
We believe that the United States must maintain a strong, technologically superior defense to protect our interests and values.
Finally, we believe that American citizenship entails responsibilities as well as rights, and we mean to ask our citizens to give something back to their communities and their country."
The talking points were already in use, and are still being used, all in the effort to rob the commons and strip the proletariat of any possible powers. Here's a list of some signatories:
http://www.ontheissues.org/Notebook/Note_00-DLC0.htm
I simultaneously thank you from the bottom of my heart
for informing me about this document and posting it--
and apologize for not being able to stomach reading it right this moment.
Ugh!
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
I know Hyde Park Democrats. Hyde Park Democrats
were friends of mine.
You, sirs and madam, are no Hyde Park Democrats.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
Hyde Park democrats
Kind of rich, considering that FDR was a Hyde Park democrat. FDR must be rolling over in his grave there at the Mansion and Presidential Library.
Pretty sure that was the point
they were pissing in our faces
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
You are asking the right question
Here is a stab at an answer. Basically I think that this represents a massive misjudgement on the part of Team Clinton. They went into this election thinking that the old playbook of demonizing the primary opponent followed by unity for the general.
Here is where it went wrong. One part of the strategy was to get the minions -the ones currently hanging out on Dkos and in other places riled up in a frenzy of hatred to all things Sanders. The purpose of this is not to sway Sanders supporters over to their side but to keep their own side enthused. There is some really good research on this mechanism which I'll try and find later.
The misjudgment they made is in assuming that Sanders support was superficial whereas in reality runs much much deeper and is not actually about Sanders. Think of it as an extension of occupy into the political arena. In a normal election cycle dislike of the GOP would be enough to get everyone back on the same page for the general but this is not a normal election cycle.
I suspect that the Clinton campaign would kill to make the hatred of Sanders and his supporters stop. This is why whenever I see the seething mass of bile and hatred that TOP has become I smile.
“To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize.” -Voltaire
Very interesting--
and gives me some explanation of why Clinton and her machine are practically desperate to get Sanders out of the race (which makes no sense, superficially; why would she care, if she's got the whole thing tied up, whether through fraud or some other means)?
Interested to hear what more you have to say on this topic.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
My hunch is
that the Clintons expected to have the primary sewn up by super Tuesday and thought that the Sanders campaign would be seen as a token gesture. They called in a lot of favors especially from those who supported Obama in 2008 as early attack dogs (think Markos Moulitas and Claire McCaskill). I suspect that these two and others were promised a reprieve from the infamous Clinton shit list if they played ball.
If Super Tuesday caused a panic Michigan then Indiana really ratcheted it up. In some ways I think that Indiana was a bigger deal than Michigan. It came after Clinton's New York win and I think Team Clinton breathed a premature collective sigh of relief after NY. Indiana and then West Virginia has terrified them - people beyond those of us obsessed by this stuff pay attention when a politician can't close a deal - remember, this victory was meant to be an easy one - after all she was 'inevitable'.
What we are seeing now is panic - they are making shit up as they go along. Yesterday's Nevada mess was a wonderful thing to behold. No one trashes their reputation to that extent for the sake of an extra couple of delegates unless they feel that they are losing. FWIW some have claimed that this was a local Nevada screw up - well, I have a bridge to sell anyone that thinks that the DNC were not pulling strings.
I really don't think they want to throw away the left/progressive side of the party/country before the election- rather they have boxed themselves into this corner. I do think they want us all to STFU after the election though - but that has been SOP for a long time now.
“To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize.” -Voltaire
Local NV screw-up?
What's Barbara Boxer, the Queen of Vegas?
smh and rolling my eyes!
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
yeah I know
didn't stop some of the usual suspects pushing the lie though
“To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize.” -Voltaire
And what the hell was that
"...if you are Booing, you are booing Bernie..." ?
If I say, "I know you are, but what am I?", does that negate her statement? Do I have to add "No backsies?"
"I’m a human being, first and foremost, and as such I’m for whoever and whatever benefits humanity as a whole.” —Malcolm X
ROTFLMAO
You have to pinkie-swear you will never do it again.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
I figured they weren't scared b/c
clearly they can rig CA the same way they rigged NY (thought that was unusually ham-handed wasn't it? Brooklyn WTF? I know this sounds bad, but--who purges votes that way?)
They do have a pledged delegate lead, and they've got the rigging--and the help of black leadership--so it didn't occur to me that they were freaked out.
But I'm looking at it wrong. They took (and spent) 157 million dollars and blew a 57-pt lead to an unknown "socialist" from VT, and the money guys are pissed.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
Yes to all of the above
One screw up would be careless but when its state after state something else is at play. (Brooklyn was horrible and not ineptitude imo)
A lot of what we are seeing comes down to individuals trying to save their own skin as best they can.
“To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize.” -Voltaire
Steve--
it occurred to me you might have misunderstood me--
I'm certain that election fraud and voter suppression have occurred in multiple states including, obviously, NY.
What I meant wasn't "nobody would purge voters like that" but "what ham-handed idiot did they hire to do these purges?"
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
I am in 100% agreement with you
my comment was more of a general one than specific response. (if that makes any sense)
We are on the same page re this one.
“To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize.” -Voltaire
they have
underestimated the level of disgust and anger that neoliberal economic and trade policies have devastated people's lives and created huge swaths of serious economic and financial insecurity. They figure they have fucked up and rigged the election process to get past all that 'natives are restless' thing.... fact of the matter is I'll probably be voting for trump if sanders is bushwhacked at the end of the day. Clinton is far more dangerous to this country's future prospects imho
They messed up in assuming Bernie couldn't win
without being beholden to big money. They thought Bernie's funding would dry up after Super Tuesday. They totally underestimated the power of crowd funding.
Beware the bullshit factories.
Why ask why?
The effort to turn the dem party into the repub party started years ago with Al From, the DLC, and the Clintons, and it continues today.
People continually wring their hands over the dems - "why don't they do this and why don't they do that" is the constant refrain.
The dems don't support what the people want because the dems don't want to, and rank and file dems have simply refused to face this fact.
dfarrah
I am sorry I was MIA guys--
I blipped over to Twitter quickly and the NV stuff was exploding over there--got sucked in and lost about an hour and a half!
I unfollowed Jesse LaGreca (amicably), but it made me sad.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
Oh no. What did Jesse do?
I don't hear much from him anymore.
'Well, I've wrestled with reality for thirty five years, Doctor, and I’m happy to state I finally won out over it." Elwood P. Dowd "
I still wish Jesse well, and like him--it's not that
But he's solidly on Team Clinton and is pushing their talking points. Not their ugliest talking pts or character attacks, but he does retweet people who do spread the uglier talking pts. This morning, he RT'ed some misinformation about NV that characterized Bernie supporters as violent (very similar spin to what ppl used to say about anarchists in Occupy). So I decided I was going to unfollow him, and everybody else who was pushing those talking points.
Jesse has never made a character attack on me nor said anything cruel or inappropriate, even when I've been harshly critical of his candidate, and we parted in well-wishes and respect w/a kind of "see ya on the other side, maybe" attitude, but I can't have any kind of active friendship or alliance with him right now.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
Thank you, CantStoptheSignal,
I kind of knew that was it.
I can't say we are best buddies. I was just able to help him out in his Occupy glory days.
'Well, I've wrestled with reality for thirty five years, Doctor, and I’m happy to state I finally won out over it." Elwood P. Dowd "
That was awesome. :-)
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
Thank you guys so much for so much response!
Now I'm really embarrassed I got sucked down the Twitter wormhole (but in my defense, it's hopping over there--and there's some ugly propaganda getting spread as well)
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
The Democrats believe they can win without Progressives.
The modern Democratic Party is an odd coalition of the credentialed, professional class, which is largely white, and African-Americans in the south. They believe in a demographic inevitability that will keep them in power forever no matter what their policies and they don't give a damn about the white working class. They believe "communities of color" will vote as a bloc and that those communities won't object to Neoliberalism since the alternative is the White Man's Party, aka Republicans. Of course, they didn't count on the cracks in their fire-wall, i.e. the young vs. old split that is showing up across all racial and ethnic groups. Read Thomas Frank's Listen Liberal! and this, from Jacobin, Burying the White Working Class
We wanted decent healthcare, a living wage and free college.
The Democrats gave us Biden and war instead.
Wow, what a great article!
Thanks!
I can't wait to see how they'll unite Jeb Bush, his donors and his supporters, with the black people they slapped in the face 15 years ago.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
Excellent comment, Azazello! Didn't see
yours, when I made mine above. (or, I wouldn't have bothered)
Anyhoo, yours is better stated, and spot on.
Mollie
Chris Hedges, Journalist/Author/Activist, Truthdig, 9/20/2015
Everyone thinks they have the best dog, and none of them are wrong.
Well...
A moderate Republican is likely to court moderate Republican voters (& $$), so no surprise there.
Those on the left provide no value added (policies, $$, etc.), especially if GOTV is not your primary concern.
Gëzuar!!
from a reasonably stable genius.
To Win not caring about the coming Loss
Apparently, there are some people who would choose to be a Winner at any cost in the first round of a two round game. This type person refuses to see the looming loss in the second round of the game which may be wrought from the actions in the first round and Only can see that a loss in the first round is unacceptable. This is the quite probable scenario for the 2016 race. Win the first round by any means necessary, even means that alienate such a large portion of those needed to assure a win in the second round that a loss in the second round becomes the reality. What sort of person can pursue this route and feel it is the correct thing to do? That would be a person whose sole thoughts are for his or her self alone, one who does not really relate to the rest of the group enough to be concerned with how anything effects them. The good of the group is of no concern to this person. This sort of person, and those who foolishly support this person for their own short sighted self interests, will not be able to see beyond that one point in time, the point in time in which they Win the moment.
When such a person, and that person's foolish followers, lead the mass he or she is seeking to rule into the jaws of defeat and the aftermath of that defeat they will never admit that they are responsible for that defeat. Instead they will point a damning finger at others. There is where they will say the fault resides, in the others who would not jump on the band wagon, who would not abandon the reality and swallow the fantasy, who would not accept the assurances that by following the "leader" all would be resolved in a favorable fashion, that winning would be accomplished for the good of all. This will be the belief even in the face of the facts that the other side may be holding all the cards in the second part of the race; the cards that assure they will keep your side away from the polls, that they will be counting (and disappearing when it suits them) the votes that are cast, deciding who can and cannot cast those votes which may or may not be allowed to count. But never fear, the blame will not even fall on them but on those who would not Do As They Were Told for the one who would have been the Leader except for the misconduct of those who should have joined the line of Followers Who Do Not Question.
Just a quick posting of run together thoughts that many or many not be of use to anyone.
Oh, you're right about preparing scapegoats for
every eventuality. I can see Hillary's scapegoats lined up already. We're the scapegoat in the event she loses; I fear African-Americans are due to take the fall if she wins.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
i think that it is a play for money more than votes...
based on the belief that if you corner the money, the votes will follow.
what hillary and minions appear to be doing is making the party the sort of place that both george soros and jeb bush's backers feel comfortable investing their fortunes by removing "the extremes." in other words, they want to make the corporate dem party like the corporate rethug party without the tea party populists.
Of all the replies,
I think you said it best:
"I’m a human being, first and foremost, and as such I’m for whoever and whatever benefits humanity as a whole.” —Malcolm X
The new Democratic Party has morphed into the old GOP
As a Democrat my whole, fairly lengthy, voting life...it is finally apparent to me. The NV convention debacle cinched it. The Democratic Party is gone...poof ....it is now the old GOP working hard for their money. It has turned it's back on citizens and has become just another arm of the corporatocracy. I no longer think it can be fixed from within.... Big question now...is... what can we do to change the whole effing system?
When wealth rules, democracy dies.
That is the question. We should talk about that further.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
I just
don't want to see their TPP or TTiP shit legislation get passed before the monetary system collapses. The other 'leg' of the killing of sovereign nations and people having a voice in their nations' direction is the SDR controlled by the World Bank and IMF.... no thanks... same corporatist control and devastating effect. I already think the monetary system is toast... trillions of unpayable debt based on false wealth effects from massive money printing and ponzi schemes of derivatives/HFT and the plethora of other corrupt and fraudulent money stealing schemes.
Have you read Ellen Brown's Web of Debt
and David Graeber's Debt the first 5000 years?
I am just beginning to think about monetary systems (over the last couple of years) and financial practices that grow out of them, and the nature of currency, so I'm a neophyte. But I found both those books fascinating--the first books in years that truly changed my perspective.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
On fiscal policy MMT is required reading, and once you get
the principle, the fraud being committed by our pols becomes even clearer. Also too, "Confessions of an Economic Hitman' is necessary to understand our FP as it relates to our imperialistic ravaging of other countries.
Some MMT links to start:
http://neweconomicperspectives.org/2014/01/diagrams-dollars-modern-money...
http://moslereconomics.com/wp-content/powerpoints/7DIF.pdf
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j3a8aoZ0mvc
And the full pdf of Confessions:
http://resistir.info/livros/john_perkins_confessions_of_an_economic_hit_...
A youtube of Perkins (I haven't watched yet):
Instead of playing defense, launch a bold attack on their flank
Call for an independent audit of the Fed, with results to be reported before the November elections.
This is no time to be timid about teaming up with RWNJs. A lot of them have been demanding an independent audit of the Fed for years. Get as many of them as possible on board.
The money elite would be so busy scrambling frantically to cover their behinds and conceal evidence, they wouldn’t have time to pass any trade agreement.
We’d also see if figures like Elizabeth Warren are really on our side and willing to lead, or not.
Trust your feelings, Luke! Audit the Death (Debt) Star.
One way of looking at it
Why do I see Bernie in football gear
Like a defensive linebacker intercepting a football? LOL
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
the
goose stepping depiction is a fairly accurate symbolic picture of Obama's policies these last 7 years. I bet he can't wait to get his post presidential payola for his fucking of what's left of Amerika
Barbara Boxer trolls Sanders supporters
Amazing.. Talk about bullies.
What a hack. We have victory! boo yourself out of this election. lol.
I don't even know what she meant by that.
Sanders supporters are being kicked "out of this election." What does it matter whether or not they boo?
Twain Disciple
Not sure where she was going
but she turned it into a dog whistle for NOT US. That's why it sounds meaningless to us.
Hey! my dear friends or soon-to-be's, JtC could use the donations to keep this site functioning for those of us who can still see the life preserver or flotsam in the water.
My theory's a bit different.
I think HRC and the DNC loyalists have calculated exactly which states they need to win the general. They have a plan in place to steal those votes, the way the Bush "won" Florida and then later Ohio.
In other words, who needs voters when you've got friends in the right places? This year's primaries are all about cheating/stealing/manipulating -- aka, a dress rehearsal for the general!
If the Rs are up to no good as well, that could make the general a full-on shit-storm. I'm just not sure they'll go that route for Trump when they could let her "win," then harass her nonstop for four years, with short breaks to pass the TPP, make Obamacare even more worthless, and decimate Social Security, etc., to show how bipartisan they are!
Of course, first she has get her the nomination, which is turning out to be more difficult than they expected (thank you, Bernie Sanders!). Okay, back under my tin-foil hat and space blanket
Hell is empty and all the devils are here. William Shakespeare
I don't think they thought she was going to need
to engage in this kind of overt corruption (electoral fraud such as changing ppl's voter registration, vote-purging of whole city blocks, closing of 2/3 of polling places right before an election, etc.) because the implicit corruption was going to be enough. I think it's the pressure of Sanders that is pushing her machine into blatant election fraud and voter suppression.
However, I think you may be right, and she may be in a position where she HAS to rely on fraud to make it through the general. God knows she doesn't have much of an actual viable path to the Presidency.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
Excellent point about Bernie catching the Ds off guard!
IIRC, the Dems ignored him, like he was another Lincoln Chaffee.
Does anyone else remember the DNC website a year or so ago, when Hillary first started running? It was really amateurish caricatures of all the R candidates and it stayed that way for months, until it became clear that Bernie was an actual threat. It looked like the D's entire platform was 'We're not crazy Republicans.' There was nothing about what they were offering or which issues were important or much of anything really.
Yes, it was early in the process, but it's not like they didn't know there was an election coming. You'd think they'd at least have some catch-phrases up there, something about what they supposedly stand for. But it really did look like they thought she could win w/o even breaking a sweat.
Hell is empty and all the devils are here. William Shakespeare
some thoughts
gjohnsit's article on kayfabe applies to Hillary a well as Trump.
But it doesn't apply to Bernie; that's why he's an existential threat. By refusing to play a role he ruins the theater - and the actors.
The 1990s Republicans were right about one thing - the Clintons are "poor white trash who don't know their place" - they think they've won membership in the oligarchy by sucking up to the oligarchy - all they've won is contempt from the oligarchy and hatred from the 99%.
Hillary has a strategy; a combination of identity politics and Nixon's "silent majority", but identity politics is just a tool - she will (has) throw minorities, even women, under the bus if (when) it serves her power trip.
On identity politics - her version only applies to minorities who conform to her dominant paradigm. Blacks, but not "superpreditors". Latinos, but only if they're looking for jobs, not children fleeing death squads. Most telling is women - women willing to take out microloans, who complain about victimhood (fight for equality but not for a new way) but always be a mother and a wife as well.
On to Biden since 1973
I think it's simply that the oligarchy would prefer Trump
to Bernie as president. Bernie is the only real threat to the establishment status quo. All available data would seem to say Bernie the least risky nominee to beat Trump. So we certainly can't have that.
"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." - JFK | "The more I see of the moneyed peoples, the more I understand the guillotine." - G. B. Shaw Bernie/Tulsi 2020
Bernie or ?Trump?
Hi, I'm Sarah Fern. New(jfern's mom). Here are my thoughts: I'm 65 & Bernie's the best candidate of my life. I'm newly active as a result; never gave $ before in any election. My 1st choice is that the DNC realizes it should "allow" him the win he should be having. Sorry for the cynicism, but I think this is what a win would take. I believe most or all states had a lot of election fraud; Nevada's yesterday was only the most obvious.
About third party: I think there's no point unless it wins. I think that Bernie could win the necessary votes if he decides to actively embrace running third party. Otherwise it seems to me to be a statement, nothing more. And if it serves only to push all three below the electoral college majority, the repubs in Congress choose, not in our interest.
So, if we don't have a viable 3rd party, what do we do? My strong second choice, after getting Bernie elected, would be to prevent Hillary. This is very important to me. I strongly believe she's itching to bomb Russia & Iran, & I don't want WWIII. She also has no interest in saving the environment, nor the working class. Our use of fossil fuels will spike & the economy for the 99% will continue its plummet. Also, we'll lose social security & probably medicare.
Trump is a thoroughly despicable, obnoxious blowhard. But he is my plan C.
A. Bernie as dem
B. Bernie as 3rd party (B.2 Jill Stein) Only if the #s are with us for a win
C. Trump so as to prevent Hillary
I'm very serious that if 3rd party or write-in is only empty "statement," I think we should vote Trump to keep out Hillary.
Thanks in advance for any & all criticisms, corrections, etc. Especially let's keep our eyes on the polls to inform our decisions as Nov nears.
BTW, I think the Hillary camp had an important motive for yesterday's steal of NV. Bernie has a very good case to make at the convention that the supers should switch to him. And his case becomes stronger with every state he can claim as a win.
Many of us agree with you.
First and foremost elect Bernie anyway we can. If that fails, make Hillary lose, claim the credit, and dance on her political grave. That means voting for the candidate with the best chance of beating her - no matter who it is.
"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon
You have to assume their job is to tank
The Party of the Left in this country.
The death knell on the Right has been coming for awhile. But like others, I can't imagine even the "moderate Right" that is scared of Trump turning their allegiance to "Democrats" who just got done shoving their base out of their alleged Big Tent. That assumes that Moderate Republicans are stupid, too.
I said "too" for a reason. All these assholes living Inside the DC Fishbowl are so fucking arrogant, to think those Righties who are tired of the bullshit Tea Partiers never noticed (or won't remember) how contrived The Tea Party Machine was early on? "They can't wait till us Greenies leave so they can get all those Rich Moderate Still-Middle-Class-Voters"??? Boy, are they going to be in for a shock one of these days. Let's start with the surprise that we've seen already, conversations like the one which took place here in another post right here on this very blog--you know the one, where we're not supposed to even think about reading or admiring "Right Wing Writers" because Some Hysterical Reason?
Doesn't anybody remember when Sanders wanted to reach out to Trump voters? I expressly remember the same sort of over-the-top freaking out by Some People.
There's a yuuuuuge lesson here, folks.
Heck, I remember the exact same people freaking out when
Jane Hamsher of FireDogLake suggested teaming up in some areas (anti-war, civil liberties, Main Street over Wall Street) with Ron Paul supporters.
Instead of discussing the suggestion they started bloviating about “firebaggers.”
Certain concepts seem to put
these folks in an absolute frizzle-tizzy. At some point, you have to ask yourself what they're afraid of. Because if you're like me at all, then you've asked them prior to today, and they didn't give you an answer then, either.
Hamsher's effort questioned Democrat orthodoxy
that the party is for the little guy........... and know's best.
Hence she became anathema, along with others like Greenwald (who was pondering Paul's civil liberties stance at the time).
Gëzuar!!
from a reasonably stable genius.
It’s also the old principle of “Divide and rule”
If Chocolate D and Peanut Butter R discover they can work together directly, then suddenly Old Man Reese and his peanut butter cup factory aren’t the only game in town anymore.
That too, also
(in my best Palinesque).
Gëzuar!!
from a reasonably stable genius.
I hate to admit that I have thought about that too.
It's further complicated by the fact that I think Trump and Hillary might be working together.
I think--absent fraud--Bernie could absolutely win if he ran as a third candidate against both Hillary and Trump. Traditional campaign math does not apply here--he does so well w/independents, and the other two candidates' net favorables are so low it's pathetic. Massive numbers of people would flood to him, even if they didn't agree w/everything he says, even if they didn't like him, to escape the two least popular candidates in the past 40 years. They would have to commit blatant fraud, or kill him, to stop him from winning.
It's funny that people assume a Bernie-Hillary-Trump contest would lead to Trump winning b/c of a split vote.
I don't think anyone who sticks w/Hillary after this would ever be a Bernie voter.
There's more overlap btw the Trump voter and the Bernie voter than btw the Bernie voter and the Hillary voter.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
With the collusion fear (H+D) a thought bubble formed
over my head (dog is sleeping, so....) that H would make D Minister of Culture. It's a part time job.
Hey! my dear friends or soon-to-be's, JtC could use the donations to keep this site functioning for those of us who can still see the life preserver or flotsam in the water.
I absolutely believe this as well
The key concept, of course, is "absent fraud". Because we know that exists in spades now. We know it.
So...
Yeah. Exactly. And
I'm trying to imagine what they could do, to demonstrate fraud any more blatantly than they have to date...
You're correct, but this is the primaries
And a lot of people don't, or can't, vote in the primaries. There's a spectator quality to them-- I wonder what my choices will be in November? sort of like I wonder what will be on the menu at that restaurant? for much of the general public. It's more intense than that now, b/c what's on the menu is shit, and shit, and life is also pretty shitty, so the attention of public on primaries has increased. But rigging the primaries can still be written off as some sort of within-the-party fight.
Rigging the general is different. That's an insult to the American people. And they can't get out of it via racism this time. The fraud isn't just targeting black people, or Latinos. 16 years after we first saw it, it's now migrated to the whole voting public. Rigging the general would be an insult to them.
And right now, they feel insulted enough.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
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