Why Does the Clinton Machine Want Us to Leave?

I apologize ahead of time for the somewhat lightweight diary, but I decided to make it a diary rather than a comment b/c I want a larger number of people to see it and help me speculate on this question.

I came back to the Democratic party only to vote for Bernie, and had no intention of staying within it any longer than I had to. However, before lots of us make a move our enemy--and make no mistake, Hillary Clinton is our enemy--wants us to make, I think it's worth trying to answer the question in my diary title. And I'd like other people to have input, so that perhaps we can get farther together than I've been able to speculating on my own.

Why does Clinton want us to leave the Democratic party?
Why does her faction want us to leave so bad?

Because, I guarantee you, nobody in politics alienates a group this consistently for this long without it being on purpose.
Hillary is evil, and lacks charisma, but she isn't stupid. And neither are her 6-figure (or 7-figure?) consultants. They all know that we will leave. And they keep doing everything they can to make sure we will.

Even David Axelrod, an establishment guy if there ever was one, believes that the Hillary campaign is deliberately alienating us. He doesn't understand why the Hillary machine is behaving the way it is; he said on Twitter that he "didn't get" how Hillary could talk about party unity and then have her top aide get up and talk about how "destructive" the Sanders campaign is immediately afterward. Axelrod said "I don't get it."

They know exactly what they're doing. They want us to leave. As Anton Bursch said to me about 3 years ago: "I can't wait till you Greens get out of the party so we can bring the moderate Republicans in."

That's the only thing slowing my departure. Because I don't like making the move my enemy wants me to make.

I'll probably leave anyway--I only came back to vote for Bernie--but I'd like to know WHY she wants us out before I go.

Obviously, she wants to replace us with Bush Republicans and other Republicans who fear Trump, thus completing the transformation of the Democratic party she and Bill began in the late 80s....

But I find it highly doubtful she's going to convince a lot of rank-and-file Republican voters to fill the ranks we leave empty. Most of them don't seem to be buying; #NeverTrump doesn't seem as powerful as #NeverHillary.

And to the extent that Republican rank-and-file voters are crossing the party line to vote for a Democrat, they're voting for Bernie, not her.

So--is she intending to do without ALL of us? Create a coalition based on African-Americans over 45, white Democrats over 60, and Jeb Bush's donor list? And, I guess, maybe 1/2 to 2/3 of the Latino voters (that's a VERY rough estimate b/c I find the Latino vote difficult to read right now--for one thing they don't vote in a block quite the way African-Americans often do--and also, I'm seeing some changes in Latino support for Hillary. I think maybe word of Honduras is spreading).

Any ruminations, speculations, or information about this would be welcome.

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hester's picture

as I am poised to leave the party the week after the convention.

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Don't believe everything you think.

Anton was 100% right; he's one of those Republicans. What's funny is that now his type and the large faction of right wing Democrats really do own the party.

What's happening now is consolidating the center-right Anschluss and bringing in a few stragglers. They feel the Latino and Black vote is pretty much theirs either way because of Republican racism and nativism and that the left will, as always, suck shit out of a Clinton's ass.

Whether that works is another matter. The Latino vote won't do much to reinforce Michigan, Ohio, and Pennsylvania; Florida (Florida pioneer family, here) is a state of 2 million decent people and 18 million fools, many of them elderly nutcases; and the Black vote won't help to turn already red states blue when disgust with the Clintons will help the Republicans turn out.

As to the left, all I can suggest is to make it very, very plain to the party apparatus that its loyalty has run out, and we're voting Green or writing in Sanders.

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“If there is no justice for the people, may there be no peace for the government.”

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

And that of their class and type, is vastly overblown. Like most bad people who have taken power, they think they are geniuses. Outside of their milieu, they are nothing but cunning thieves.

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“If there is no justice for the people, may there be no peace for the government.”

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

My best guess is that they think they can do to "moderate" Republicans what they've been doing to the left all these years.
I don't think it's going to work.

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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

They are refashioning the Dem party in their image. They want the left out of the Dems and they want to leave the Republicans to be the party of nativism, protectionism, and religious fanaticism.

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Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

If you make less than a couple mil a year, my guess is you don't even register as human to them--unless you have value as one of the relatively few skilled employees they need.

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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

Soon to be jailed convicts, if laws apply equally.

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NonnyO's picture

Unfortunately, I don't believe Hillary will spend one day in jail or be fined one penny for her criminal behavior, and she certainly does not suffer any pangs of conscience for her unethical and immoral behavior, or her lies.

If Drumpf gets the Residency, he will protect his "friend" Hillary. I keep remembering that photo of Hillary looking at Drumpf, laughing, Bill beside her, and Melania finishing the photo when they were at the wedding of The Donald and Melania.

If Billary have any goals, it is to unite their branch of the Democratic Party with the Rethuglicans, all in one unified fascist, oligarchical coup to take over the US government (TPP approved in advance).

The hoi polloi and peons? Let 'em eat cake or go suck on toadstools or eat soylent green, for all they care.

The description for the movie (emphasis mine):

This is the year 2022. Overcrowding, pollution, and resource depletion have reduced society's leaders to finding food for the teeming masses. The answer is Soylent Green - an artificial nourishment whose actual ingredients are not known by the public. Thorn is the tough homicide detective who stumbles onto the secret so terrifying no one would dare believe him.

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I believe in an America where the separation of church and state is absolute ..., where no church or church school is granted any public funds or political preference. — President John F. Kennedy, Houston, TX, 12 September 1960

Soon to be jailed convicts, if laws apply equally.

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Soon to be jailed convicts, if laws apply equally.

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featheredsprite's picture

This morning, after I had "slept on it," I came to a conclusion.

It is class based. It's the bourgeoisie vs the proletariat.

Clinton may be bourgeois. The rest of them are bourgeois toadies, sucking up to the oligarchy in hopes of catching some crumbs that fall from the table. Those of us who have given up getting even our basic needs met by the oligarchy are the proletariat.

The bourgeoisie are terrified of the proletariat and rightfully so. We are enemies. Our innermost needs are at odds.

What makes today different from the past is that many of the proletariat have just recently been pushed out of the middle class. And naturally, they are mad as hell about it. The surge of activism we see today is a direct result of destruction of the middle class.

For a long time, the middle class served as a protective shield for the oligarchy. But that shield is evaporating. The oligarchy and their bourgeois toadies are in danger.

In today's situation, the newly proletariat are well educated, they are connected by the internet and social media, and they know how to cooperate. The very bottom layer of society doesn't know how to cooperate in order to work for the greater good. But these young people do know. And they are cooperating like hell.

The bourgeois toadies are so stupid that they believe that the oligarchy will protect them and take care of them. Ha!

And that is the state of the union as of now, according to me.

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Life is strong. I'm weak, but Life is strong.

gulfgal98's picture

For the last four weeks, I have been writing about neo-liberalism as a part of my Wed. morning Open Thread series. Two weeks ago, the essay was on neo-liberal myth of "meritocracy" which forms the basis for the neo-liberal ideology. This idea is exactly why neo-liberals such as Clinton have abandoned the lower classes and the poor and have led to charge to destroy the social safety net. Witness Obama placing Social Security on the negotiating table over the budget.

It is class based. It's the bourgeoisie vs the proletariat.

Clinton may be bourgeois. The rest of them are bourgeois toadies, sucking up to the oligarchy in hopes of catching some crumbs that fall from the table. Those of us who have given up getting even our basic needs met by the oligarchy are the proletariat.

Last Wed on the morning Open Thread, I posted about the characteristics of neo-liberalism. When you examine where both Hillary and Bill Clinton have stood in their policy prescriptions, you can see that Hillary Clinton is firmly a neo-liberal. She is also an oligarch who as a politician sees her mission as to fully implement the neo-liberal ideology which means more cuts to the social safety net, more wars for regime change, and a full throated support for the banks and policies of free trade. No amount of triangulation will change her basic neo-liberal ideology when put into practice.

So why does the Democratic party which is nearly wholly owned by the Clintons not want us? It is an easy answer if you understand the ideological divide. Going back to 2008, the campaign was hard fought between Clinton and Obama, but the ideological gap was not that wide with both being neo-liberals. The main difference was not substance, but style with Obama being the kinder, gentler version to what Clinton would have brought to the White House.

In contrast, the ideological gap between Clinton and Sanders is a massive gulf. Add to that, Sanders supporters are not in it via identity politics, but are for Sanders because of his policies. This is neo-liberalism versus soft democratic socialism. It is not that they are ignoring us because they think we have no place to go. It is because they do not want us in their big neo-liberal tent because they fear we will gum up the works. Most Sanders supporters understand this gulf and most Clinton supporters seem to be clueless.

With that in mind, here is what I posted recently over at TOP.

The way I see it, there will be very little of substance that Clinton will be willing to include in the platform for the Sanders supporters. The reason for this is that Clinton and her big money donors are wedded to the neo-liberal ideology which is exactly the opposite of what Sanders and his supporters want policy wise.

There is just no way that truly expanding and strengthening the social safety net, stopping free trade deals, re-regulating industries, raising the minimum wage to a living wage, and stopping US imperialism is going to wash with the neo-liberals. I think hard core Sanders supporters know this already and the Clinton camp does not believe in those policies. This is a basic philosophical battle over economic ideology that cannot be smoothed over.

So Clinton may try to say some triangulated, non-binding words to appease the Sanders supporters, but she is not going to change. Her record speaks to that. The gulf between the ideologies of Clinton and Sanders is very wide. This is very different from Clinton and Obama who were of similar basic free market ideologies with shades of difference.

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Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?

“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy

As mentioned above, Sanders is a soft socialist at most: He's for regulated capitalism not ridding us of capitalism. Even this return-to-the-roots Democratic Party is too much for Clinton and the small group she's fronting for. She, and they, want to be free exploit the world, its people, and its resources without cost, or with only minimal cost, and without accountability. And, they want to be backed up by the US military and NATO.

The neo-liberals are more comfortable with muslim dictatorships than with middle eastern secular authoritarians. The neo-liberals will continue the Monroe Doctrine with Honduras and Obama's branding Venezuela as a country of special concern to the security of the USA.

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"The justness of individual land right is not justifiable to those to whom the land by right of first claim collectively belonged"

Noam Chomsky has called Bernie "an honest, dedicated New Dealer". That is exactly who Bernie is, and he is trying to implement the program defined by FDR in his Second Bill of Rights speech: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3EZ5bx9AyI4

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Mark F. McCarty

That's what I was thinking of when I made my comments,

It would be good to finally realize FDR's plan for the country.

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"The justness of individual land right is not justifiable to those to whom the land by right of first claim collectively belonged"

flitedocnm's picture

And Hillary (and Bill) are, basically, Republicans. Let's not put too fine a point on it: Yes, they are absolutely neoliberals, but I've always hated that term, because for far too many people, it conjures up the image of a new, improved form of liberalism. There is nothing at all liberal about neoliberalism. In fact, in many ways, Hillary is to the right of Nixon, and without a doubt, to the right of Eisenhower.

Over at TOP, not long ago I made a comment challenging anyone to explain how the Clinton's neoliberalism differs in any substantive way from trickle-down, supply-side, voodoo Reaganomics. I got not a single taker.

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Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

This part especially:
"This is neo-liberalism versus soft democratic socialism. It is not that they are ignoring us because they think we have no place to go. It is because they do not want us in their big neo-liberal tent because they fear we will gum up the works."

Not that many people are going to fit into their big neo-liberal tent. I don't think America is having it.

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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

riverlover's picture

It will save Other People's Money if they don't need to rent a really big tent.

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Hey! my dear friends or soon-to-be's, JtC could use the donations to keep this site functioning for those of us who can still see the life preserver or flotsam in the water.

Alphalop's picture

Can't be like the peons and loiter under cheap canvas. Wink

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"I used to vote Republican & Democrat, I also used to shit my pants. Eventually I got smart enough to stop doing both things." -Me

Obama opened my eyes. The health insurance debacle was only the beginning. It's like when I had an abusive partner. At first, it brings on shock and denial. We were unable to divorce him. The nightmare grows, and continues. Hillary will destroy us, if not the whole world.

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'Well, I've wrestled with reality for thirty five years, Doctor, and I’m happy to state I finally won out over it." Elwood P. Dowd "

but it wasn't until reading the detailed sell out of the ACA that I realized where Obama stood. And that was a startling revelation. Shock and denial for a bit, then hardened and bitter disgust and anger.

A friend loaned me The Shock Doctrine, which woke me up to neo-liberalism I guess, to put it simply I just never have been able to see Capitalism in the same light after that first read. I have my own copy now, and refer back to it once in a while.

But my awakening to what Democrats really are was under Mr Obama too. Until then I had not read enough to see it, and now its just painfully obvious that they don't care whether we see it or not.

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Only a fool lets someone else tell him who his enemy is. Assata Shakur

edg's picture

Most of them, anyhow. Many Americans, while living in an ostensibly advanced democracy, are fascinated by all things British royal. Religious folk can't wait to get to the Kingdom of Heaven and worship the almighty king. Her Majesty Queen Hillary awaits her coronation, supported by peasants who believe she is infallible. Speaking of infallible, hundreds of millions of Catholics think their Pope is infallible and speaks directly to god.

We are a complex and tragic species.

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Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

hate the idea of Queen Hillary and her coronation--the word "coronation" is uttered with extreme contempt.

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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

flitedocnm's picture

now in their twenties, who were strong Bernie supporters. But recognizing that Bernie is not going to win the nomination, they are now fully on board – with Trump.

I suspect this is not an aberration. Millennials aren't taken in one whit by Hillary. They are NOT going to rally behind her.

How utterly depressing this is turning out to be. Not just that we are going to have a joke election between two oligarchs, but because time is truly fast running out. As our middle class sinks into oblivion, the one shot we had to dislodge the oligarchy before it got so solidly entrenched that it will be running the show for the indefinite future is now gone. And of course much worse, we are moving at ever increasing speed into the caldron of planetary catastrophe brought about by climate change, or as one recent excellent piece calls it, anthropogenic climate disruption (ACD). About which we can expect Hillary to do essentially, incrementally, nothing.

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Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

Despite what I said, we're still plenty authoritarian, if approached the right way.
Hill doesn't bother approaching us the right way.

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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

they have someone under them in the pecking order, yes.

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edg's picture

As we said in the Army, shit rolls downhill.

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Raggedy Ann's picture

We, the proletariat, are in revolution, which will turn to rebellion in due time. After what happened in Nevada, the mask is off; the game has been revealed. It is time to rise up and be heard. It is time to keep our voices in their ears for as long as it takes. Look at Wisconsin. They're still singing in the Capitol. Look at North Carolina. Moral Monday's are still taking place. We must become even more active. This is not okay.

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"We must be willing to let go of the life we have planned so as to have the life that is waiting for us." E.M.Foster

the hypocrisy of people like Denise is just running rampant.

So the Southern states just love, love, love Hillary? Fine. They can vote for her in the general -- and lose.

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Everyone is hysterical but them. There were NO RULE CHANGES. I check every know and then to see if I've gotten a love note from elfling. I do comment in LD's diary, and it is getting harder to bite my tongue over there.

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"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon

Raggedy Ann's picture

Sometimes I get so angry. I didn't go there today, so no BNR comment, but sometimes I don't have the energy. TOP is draining and toxic. Diablo

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"We must be willing to let go of the life we have planned so as to have the life that is waiting for us." E.M.Foster

Zinman's picture

I am changing where I go on-line so as to avoid toxicity. c99% is healing, so I will be here more often.

I support Bernie as the best Democratic Presidential candidate in a long time, but the Democratic Party establishment is going all-in for Hillary instead. I am sad it has come to this.

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Be a Friend of the Earth, cherish it and protect it.

What does TOP stand for?

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otherwise known as Daily Kos. I guess that it's a bit like Lord Voldemort, nobody really wants to say the name directly!

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RA we haven't given up in WI Just have to get turn out in the off year elections. Hoping to turn the state senate in Nov.

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The newly rich bourgeoisie and the "old money" both must pay a fair share. Not just income but wealth tax. They, the top 1%, reportedly have about 90% of all assets. A wealth tax should be imposed that returns excess to the people yet still leaves them, the rich, comfortable.

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can't figure it out, I sure as hell can't.
Lefties are being kicked out, establishment repubs are being openly courted.
That makes the 2 party system look more and more like a conservative party and a fascist party.

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Ken in MN's picture

...he's just too terrified or cowardly to say it aloud...

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I want my two dollars!

gulfgal98's picture

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Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?

“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy

lotlizard's picture

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Hillbilly Dem's picture

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"Just call me Hillbilly Dem(exit)."
-H/T to Wavey Davey

lotlizard's picture

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The May Queen's picture

a secular far-right party and a white supremacist/theocratic far-right party. Pick your poison.

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Pity would be no more if we did not make somebody poor-William Blake

GreyWolf's picture

We got both kinds of music here, Country & Western.
.

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Sea Turtle

with two fringes. The Tea Pots own the GOP, so they are one fringe. We, of course, own nothing. If we're not pinko commies plotting the overthrow of the US, we're just the crazies on the street talking to ourselves and pushing our shopping carts.

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"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon

MonetaryLeviathon's picture

fascist ... there's nothing 'conservative' about it

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lotlizard's picture

needed for a Shoot Out at the Fascist-y Consent Factory.

Trolling Votes had a subdued reaction, saying that most of the candidates were too even-tempered and uniform in structure and tone, but that "Evening Bernie" and "(Sometimes H Feels So) Uninspired" are high points.

From Salon:
The media (ironically) overlooked the most chilling, Orwellian revelation of the Ben Rhodes controversy
NY Times' Rhodes feature shows the manufacturing of consent Chomsky warned about has soared to chilling new heights

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Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

Not even the capitalism I was brought up with (which was no great shakes, but apparently isn't good enough for them. Not enough people dying.)

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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

except one party likes to add a cheesy religus flag to "american exceptionalism"

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Solidarity forever

mouselander's picture

The Clinton people only want the activist faction to leave. They assume that whatever they're saying now, the vast majority of Bernie supporters will ultimately fall into line when November rolls around. But of course they'd much rather have the activists pushing for a third party candidate who's pretty much off the media radar screen, so Clinton wouldn't have to participate in debates with that candidate, engage in messy platform fights, or deal with all the other potential trouble making activities that supporters of insurgent candidates like Bernie tend to engage in.

Personally, I don't think the ideas of building a credible third party and of continuing to support populist insurgent Democratic candidates like Bernie are mutually exclusive. Suppose instead of "BernieOrBust", Sanders' supporters had made it clear from the outset that their first choice was someone from the "Democratic wing of the Democratic Party", but absent that they would be all in for the Green Party or some other populist party candidate. Makes perfect sense - why enable a second Republican candidacy when one is more than enough? And yet there are obvious advantages to continuing to compete within the two-party framework.

I can only hope this approach might be adopted four years hence, assuming Trump or Clinton ends up being the winner this time around.

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inactive account

They are a one issue party. An important issue but essentially a middle class Left party. They offer nothing to the proletariat. They need to build a coalition.

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I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

at doing the kind of infrastructure building you'd need to do if you really meant to mount a challenge to the mainstream political system.

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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

mouselander's picture

that they're a one issue party. I defy anyone to look at this table and tell me the Green Party isn't far more progressive on a wide range of issues than either of the mainstream parties. Whether or not this equates to "populism" is really a matter of semantics.

That said, I personally believe the best way forward for the movement inspired by Bernie Sanders is probably the formation of a new party. Since the Greens have had virtually no success in penetrating the consciousness of the electorate, it would seem to me that a fresh start and some new thinking are called for.

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inactive account

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I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.

#BernieOrJill #NeverHillary #NeverTrump. I will not be complicit in destroying our right to self-determination.

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Beware the bullshit factories.

How much do you know about the Green Party? It sounds as if all you know is the name.
There are many watermelons in the GPUS.

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Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

mouselander's picture

At present, the Green Party is on the ballot in only 21 states. Also, not all states count write-in votes. Those contemplating their protest vote options need to consider these factors.

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inactive account

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

I'm considering doing, maybe with help--it would be useful to have a piece written up, or maybe a pamphlet, that laid out that information.

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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

Trump doesn't scare me.

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Alphalop's picture

At least with Drumph I am sure the Democrats and many republicans will never pass any of his crazier ideas.

Hillary? Not so much...

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"I used to vote Republican & Democrat, I also used to shit my pants. Eventually I got smart enough to stop doing both things." -Me

about someone who stabs you in the front. At least they have the courage of their convictions, ya know?

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I miss Colorado.

NonnyO's picture

... He has said he opposes TPP. Of course, he could change his mind at any time and I'll go back to loathing everything about Drumpf..., but just this second he has ONE redeeming quality in that he has said he opposes TPP.

It's painful to write that because it sounds like I admire him. Not so. I just "approve" of one thing he said.

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I believe in an America where the separation of church and state is absolute ..., where no church or church school is granted any public funds or political preference. — President John F. Kennedy, Houston, TX, 12 September 1960

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

thinks Iraq was a crap decision, and doesn't want a new Cold War--or hot war--with Russia.

It's frightening that the stupid, inchoate mass of his "foreign policy" is still better than her experienced, well-thought-out version. She's that evil.

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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

lotlizard's picture

That’s one more thing I grudgingly give him credit for. From the Republican candidate that’s pretty amazing.

Nixon may have “gone to China,” but even he didn’t run on going to China.

Against the TTP, against cuts to Social Security, and for single payer. Absolutely positions most of us probably approve of. The only question is, can we believe them coming from him.

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but you know you won't get them from Hillary.

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I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

clearing some things up for me--I didn't realize they saw such a huge difference between the activist Bernie voter and the ordinary Bernie voter.

I don't think they're right about this, if only b/c Clinton was horribly unpopular to begin w/and has spent her campaign confirming and expanding the American people's opinion of her. *She's* growing the #BernieOrBust and #BernieOrGreen movement.

I also think most Bernie voters, if they're not activists, are probably not because they're working too many hours, not because they're that different from "activist" Bernie voters. It really is a movement. It's just a movement on precarious ground b/c it arose around an electoral process.

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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

riverlover's picture

that found Bernie to be a human figure to coalesce around. He was to nucleus in a solution at saturation with dissatisfaction. The crystal is still growing from that. Same solution (liquid) out there, crystallization will continue Bernie or not.

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Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

Much better than that "messiah" bullshit I keep hearing, ugh.

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I miss Colorado.

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

thanatokephaloides's picture

The "messiah" bullshit comes, almost without exception, from Hillary supporters who envy Bernie Sanders his supporters and their genuine enthusiasm. Deep down, they know that Hillary offers little or no cause for enthusiasm. They know that she bought her Democratic Party slot when she couldn't get it honestly, i.e., by winning hearts and minds. And they know that Bernie has nothing else besides a cause worth getting enthused over!

Of course, Hillary and her supporters will never, ever admit as much. But it's the facts.

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"I say enough! If Israel wants to be the only superpower in the Middle East then they can put their own asses on the line and do it themselves. I want to continue to eat."
-- snoopydawg

stevej's picture

threw up two candidates who perfectly represented the major two factions in the party. A neolib centrist and an old school SJ/New dealer. I think those of us who are really into this stuff realized this very early on but now the Bernie voters as well as the Bernie activists now get it on a deep level. It is as if someone has turned the lights on and the centrists are terrified and are doing everything in there power to turn them back off again.

*She's* growing the #BernieOrBust and #BernieOrGreen movement.

In other words this

Everything she or her campaign does is backfiring. The fact that Bernie's trustworthy and favorability numbers are not budging from their very high levels shows this.

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“To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize.” -Voltaire

The Democratic establishment has been scared shitless by the power behind the Sanders campaign, and they fear for their control of the party going forward. Maintaining that control is their primary objective, I've always believed -- it's far more important to them than winning mere elections. They've proven over and over that they'd rather lose a general election campaign than let a leftist insurgent win a primary. They'd rather lose to Trump than let Bernie win, so they haven't let Bernie win. This is the most direct answer to the diary's question.

The oligarchic class always wins as long as they control the only viable political parties. Doing so makes elections exercises in Potemkin democracy. I see the Clinton campaign engaged in a balancing act, trying to drive off the more activist elements of the Democratic left, while hoping most of the followers will string along and lend their votes in November. It's just more "Where else they gonna go?" politics, and they're counting on "We Suck Less!" to work yet again. The Democratic party's performance in this primary campaign season shows that the party will have to be destroyed rather than remolded. They simply won't let go of power in the party, no matter what. And they count on the media to cover their tracks when they lie, cheat and steal to maintain their power.

The left's job is much harder if they can't win fair elections to take over the Democratic Party. This is not surprising, nor is it new.

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Please help support caucus99percent!

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Please help support caucus99percent!

How about taking Working Families Party to every state. Here in NY, there are several small parties; are they allowed in other states?

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It's simply too painful to acknowledge, even to ourselves that we've been taken. Once you give a charlatan power over you, you almost never get it back. Carl Sagan

Party here... And growing because we are a closed primary state so people remain democrats BUT in general elections more and more people vote on the WFP line if onlY to help them get matching funds

They endorsed Bernie... I wonder if that means Bernie will be at the top of the WFP ticket... THAT would freak the DNC out. If Bernie supporters in NY voted for Bernie in the GE. TRUMP could win NY.

Bernie continues to be the indestructible Monkey Wrench clogging up the party machinery... and it's amazing that the party's own arrogance blinded them to how deep the anger is and how many of us there are.

Oh well.. Democracy was never supposed to be neatly packaged by Madison Avenue ... And now it's not.

(Smile)

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Orwell was an optimist

riverlover's picture

but not since the primary. That thought has crossed my mind as well, that Sanders could still be on the Presidential vote line come November. That would make things easier. I also am registered D but vote WFP line downstream.

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NWIA's picture

There is money in keeping us out because our positions are direct attacks on the current national balance sheet. Conversely, we have no money that could possibly be directed toward Clinton and her corporate allies.

It is smart. Few if us are genuinely interested in a Trump presidency, so who cares about our votes. What I'm seeing, anecdotally of course, is a nearly even swap between left wing supporters who were Obama voters with not-totally-crazy GOP/Romney supporters. We're just not worth her effort and the more she trashes us, the more she cashes from them.

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Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

But my guess is that it's gonna backfire. Most of the RW voters I talk to can't stand her. And it's getting worse as time goes on. She'll get the donors, and some of the "moderate" Repub vote. Don't think it'll be enough.

Black leadership must be having serious buyer's remorse about now.

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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

Cassiodorus's picture

They're trading in on Clinton's influence-peddling, they think of their endorsements of Clinton as career moves, and anyway they made it to where they are by (as Yvette Carnell so astutely pointed out some time ago) selling stuff to other Black people. Now the Black working class, on the other hand...

Our job is to find out what happens to Nina Turner and Symone Sanders and Killer Mike and all the other great Black supporters of Sanders after Sanders endorses Clinton -- unless he wins or doesn't endorse Clinton, in which case all bets are off.

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"Every election is fake." -- Janna Ordonia, from "Star vs. the Forces of Evil"

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

WaterLily's picture

the more I become convinced that there's no way in hell -- should Hillary become the nominee -- that Bernie will endorse her.
Perhaps, if things had played out differently -- if Hillary and her surrogates and paid shills and David Brock had played fairly, had stuck to their promise of an issues-based campaign -- he would have done it. But they've stabbed him in the back at every turn. What loyalty does he owe at this point?
Bernie is smart, astute. He understands the state of this nation and from whence his support comes. And he knows he can't tell us what to do.
I think, at best, he might say something to that effect: "I can't tell my supporters how to vote. They need to make that choice on their own."
And the revolution will continue.

By the way, this diary is a breath of intelligent air. GOS's loss.

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Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

NonnyO's picture

The longer this primary continues, the more I become convinced that there's no way in hell -- should Hillary become the nominee -- that Bernie will endorse her.

As Bernie says, he can't tell people what to do. IF he does endorse Hillary, he will lose so much respect he wouldn't be able to regain it should he decide to run in '20.

Plus which, people like me would not "obey" him and vote for $Hillary if he does tell us to vote for her. I like Bernie a whole lot, am voting for him one way or another this fall, but there's no way in hell I will ever vote "for" $Hillary even if Bernie, the living man I respect the most, tells us to do so. I knew before Bernie declared his candidacy that I would never vote for $Hillary, and that remains truer today than before.

Bernie or Bust!

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I believe in an America where the separation of church and state is absolute ..., where no church or church school is granted any public funds or political preference. — President John F. Kennedy, Houston, TX, 12 September 1960

AMEN to that Eagles92

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orlbucfan's picture

Why would Bernie keep at it? Plus, reliable word out of CA says the Berner is up big time w/Latinos. He's going to win KY and OR Tuesday. Bern**Baby**Bern!! Rec'd!

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Inner and Outer Space: the Final Frontiers.

Alphalop's picture

I bet they are gonna be fun, but possibly a nail biter too.

I better make sure that I have plenty of Scotch and ice to settle my nerves Tuesday. Smile

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"I used to vote Republican & Democrat, I also used to shit my pants. Eventually I got smart enough to stop doing both things." -Me

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