Censor Trump

Dear Friends,

I signed the MoveOn petition: Ending live daily coverage of Trump’s COVID-19 briefings

It would mean a lot to me if you could also add your name to this important issue. Every name that is added builds momentum around the campaign and makes it more likely for us to get the change we want to see.

Will you join me by taking action on this campaign?

End Coverage of Trump's Comments at COVID-19 Briefings

After you've signed the petition please also take a moment to share it with others. It's super easy – all you need to do is forward the email MoveOn sends to you.

Thank you!

Robert

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14 users have voted.

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Lily O Lady's picture

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6 users have voted.

"The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power. Now do you begin to understand me?" ~Orwell, "1984"

PriceRip's picture

@Lily O Lady

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4 users have voted.

"I know you believe you understand what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant."
Robert J. McCloskey, U.S. State Department spokesman. From a press briefing during the Vietnam war.

Lily O Lady's picture

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6 users have voted.

"The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power. Now do you begin to understand me?" ~Orwell, "1984"

@Lily O Lady
.
Censorship is not what this Country is about, and it is not what men and woman of our Country fought and died for.

A lot of people draw some hope, and learn important information from these briefings, and that is their right to do so.

If you don't (personally) like the briefings then change the channel, or turn the TV off. That's what freedom is. It's a matter of free choice.

We've already had far too much censorship and "banning" in this Country (Google, YouTube, Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, Mainstream Media News, etc.). That totally violates the free will that our Country was founded on.

And we ain't banning books either.. whether or not you like them (or like the author).

That's not what Liberty is folks.... grow up!!!
.

And the very greatest and most repressive form of human intolerance is the madness of Censorship.
.

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6 users have voted.
Lily O Lady's picture

@FreeSociety

Everything that Trump says can be reported. There is no reason to air everything that he says on all channels. It is free campaign propaganda without being informative. And his base just loves it. People who are on the fence see him on TV every day and see him as a trusted authority figure. The poll results show it.

He is entitled to be heard, but do we really have to give him free PR? Again every blessed word he says could be linked to on news websites for anyone to see. We don’t need to stop traffic every time he holds a press conference. Report what he says without a daily moment of zen.

I used to write letters to the editor at the AJC. They edited with my name and city at the bottom. Was I censored? Discuss.

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3 users have voted.

"The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power. Now do you begin to understand me?" ~Orwell, "1984"

@Lily O Lady
.
Absolute Nonsense. You don't get to "Edit" on behalf of other people.

A President of The United States has the right to give televised addresses to the Nation that can be seen on any matter of urgency or public interest. Clearly, the Corona Virus is a matter of great urgency, and national and public interest.

Whether or not you like the messenger, or call it "free PR" is irrelevant.
We have (we the people), or are supposed to have, free choice in this Country.

You can vote for whoever you wish, or you can change the TV channel.

But you do not have any right to prevent other people from making their own free decisions and free choices to watch anything they wish to, or watch any briefing that they wish to when it is given. And you do not have the right to boot The President of The United States off of television at a time of national urgency and concern.

Freedom of choice is inclusive.
Censorship is completely intolerant, repressive, despotic, unAmerican, and unnecessary.


Grow up!!!
.

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1 user has voted.
PriceRip's picture

@FreeSociety

          Thanks George Orwell, but no thanks.

          You obviously oppose REAL fact checking. Say are you a troll. Smile

          NO, say it ain't so, Joe!

RIP

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2 users have voted.

"I know you believe you understand what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant."
Robert J. McCloskey, U.S. State Department spokesman. From a press briefing during the Vietnam war.

@FreeSociety @FreeSociety right of the prez to have all his "addresses" to the nation televised. Edit: Some occasional formal addresses from the Oval on an important subject are carried live, but even that is not a "right" of the president.

It's a function of tradition, that the MSM usually carries WH addresses on an important subject, plus usage -- whether the particular prez is just using the free airtime to make more of a political pitch.

In any case, it's a mutual agreement, steeped in tradition, with the MSM, but it is not about presidential rights, and the networks can always decline to air them live. Iirc, that happened at least once with Obama. Maybe one or two before him, if memory serves.

Finally, there is the political backlash factor if the media don't carry these press-corona events.

The MSM definitely need to handle the factual follow-up/correction a little more aggressively. Would be even more helpful if the Dems were organized sufficiently to deliver a formal answer also carried by the networks.

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5 users have voted.

@wokkamile back to networks having to carry occasional programs "in the public interest" in order to keep their broadcast license. A president commenting on a major issue of concern to everyone would certainly qualify in this category of public interest. It's just not usually the case that a president decides to communicate with the public on a daily basis, and does so in such a transparently mendacious manner.

We are also in a political year, so there is that consideration by the networks. Ideally, as I mentioned, the Ds would be organized enough to offer a few rebuttal voices after Trump speaks. Some dynamic Dem voice who is up on the good scientific information, a/o the D could have a medical expert handy to speak to the public health issues that Trump misstates, the Ds own Fauci.

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4 users have voted.

@FreeSociety

Grow up!!!

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4 users have voted.
PriceRip's picture

@FreeSociety

Clearly, the Corona Virus is a matter of great urgency, and national and public interest.

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3 users have voted.

"I know you believe you understand what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant."
Robert J. McCloskey, U.S. State Department spokesman. From a press briefing during the Vietnam war.

Pluto's Republic's picture

...provide the only clues we have about this deliberately engineered depopulation event.

I don't write about this here. However, I do think it is imperative that we learn everything we can about what is really happening here. You never mention how Trump is able to make this any worse than it already is. Do you have an example?

We have been trapped inside an infection zone without the necessary tools and supplies to protect ourselves. This is not logical. It is not the way systems work. It's not how whistleblowers and managers function. A situation this large and complex did not spontaneously pop into existence when no one was looking.

We are in a deliberate construct. And we need to figure this out immediately. Before the next shoe is timed to drop.

There are too many viruses from different sources.

Too many clues were dropped during this crisis rehearsal two months earlier.

On the other hand, perhaps none of this will make any difference at all.

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12 users have voted.

Human salvation lies in the hands of the creatively maladjusted.

— Martin Luther King

PriceRip's picture

@Pluto's Republic

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13 users have voted.

"I know you believe you understand what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant."
Robert J. McCloskey, U.S. State Department spokesman. From a press briefing during the Vietnam war.

Pluto's Republic's picture

@PriceRip

...he would win.

But I don't believe Bernie can be nominated without divine intervention.

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21 users have voted.

Human salvation lies in the hands of the creatively maladjusted.

— Martin Luther King

Hawkfish's picture

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4 users have voted.

We can’t save the world by playing by the rules, because the rules have to be changed.
- Greta Thunberg

PriceRip's picture

@Hawkfish

          His smile is too toothy.

RIP

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3 users have voted.

"I know you believe you understand what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant."
Robert J. McCloskey, U.S. State Department spokesman. From a press briefing during the Vietnam war.

@Pluto's Republic

to not have been a practice run gone live.

Dirty power grabbers are softening the peeps
for another extreme over-reach grab at social
justice. Pre-emptive combat to steal our rights.
Dig-in and fight back.

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9 users have voted.

May we be united and strong -- laurel

… People have the right to turn off the TV, but often the doctors (Fauci and Birx) provide useful information, and I also want to see the unfiltered give-and-take when the reporters ask (sometimes) tough questions. While I agree to the extent that informally I call these daily pressers "the clown show," for me, it's must-watch in these days of staying indoors during this crisis. Personally I think it's important for the public to stay informed and educated; therefore, I cannot support this call for media self-censorship. (They -- and by "they" I refer to the mainstream media -- are doing enough of it on their own, frankly, including topics like the serious sexual assault allegations vs Joe Biden, as well as the coverup on the chemical weapons investigation in Syria, and the media blackout of Tulsi Gabbard's Presidential campaign.)

By the way, does "MoveOn" have a petition urging a formal investigation into Tara Reade's charges against Joe Biden? I doubt it ...

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16 users have voted.
Lily O Lady's picture

@JCWeb

in the first place is because he was pretty much always on TV. And the more ridicule that was heaped on him, the more his Trumpeters trumpeted for him, becoming more and more emotionally attached. Hillary calling them deplorables added to that even more.

We do need good information, but Trump is using that to score points with his supporters while “heroically” beating off his media detractors. YMMV

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10 users have voted.

"The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power. Now do you begin to understand me?" ~Orwell, "1984"

PriceRip's picture

@JCWeb

          I don't think you are being dishonest, and I am not sure about the word duplicitous ( I don't know you because of the nature of this medium) but I do think your words don't take into account the desired atmosphere of what should exist is a NewsRoom.

          "Turn Off the TV" is not a desirable retort or reaction. In fact that attitude is what has driven this cursed trend for several decades. You are aware that this is just the current state in a long steady decline over the years · · · are you not?

          Your denouncing this as a "call for Media Self-Censorship" is so very glib and out of touch with reality, it takes my breath away. Reporting actual information and ignoring babbling bullshit is NOT self-censorship it is in fact responsible, and ethical reporting. At least at one time, when reporters had standards, it was.

RIP

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5 users have voted.

"I know you believe you understand what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant."
Robert J. McCloskey, U.S. State Department spokesman. From a press briefing during the Vietnam war.

@PriceRip @PriceRip
I understand your anger, but dropping viewership, which equals lower ad rates will certainly get their attention more than "some Lefties complaining about Trump". All the media cares about is $$$$. Hit 'em where it hurts.

EDIT:
Sometimes a post hits us hard where we live and we get angry. But let's not get angry at our brothers & sisters in-arms. Trust me, I know. Reserve your anger for the 1%

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11 users have voted.

We are so screwed.

@The Voice In the Wilderness
He had spent a year on an exchange program with Bowdoin College in Maine. While there he joined the men's field hockey team, because, y'know, out there in the Empire upon which the sun formerly did not set, field hockey is a very respectable "men's" sport. And aggressive and a bit scary, I guess.

So in the middle of one match, this guy (one of whose names was "Fraser", it seems to me, but I don't know whether it was his first, last or other) was out there playing his very aggressive and scary version of the game, and after a particularly aggressive moment, another player came up to him and said -- God I love this -- "Cool it, wild man."

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10 users have voted.

The earth is a multibillion-year-old sphere.
The Nazis killed millions of Jews.
On 9/11/01 a Boeing 757 (AA77) flew into the Pentagon.
AGCC is happening.
If you cannot accept these facts, I cannot fake an interest in any of your opinions.

Pluto's Republic's picture

@UntimelyRippd

...straight out of Catcher in the Rye.

Evocative.

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2 users have voted.

Human salvation lies in the hands of the creatively maladjusted.

— Martin Luther King

snoopydawg's picture

@JCWeb

I'm totally in agreement with you on this. I hate calls for censorship no matter where they come from. Neera, Rachel, DK and others are calling for it and yet they offer no advice for how to help people. It's a constant bitch session from the blue checks. Hillary and Neera are leading the charge.

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12 users have voted.

"I will be the best, the best, you know, you know the thing!”
- Joe Biden

snoopydawg's picture

@snoopydawg

to us about Russia Russia Russia.... this is the pot talking to the kettle. IMO of course.

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8 users have voted.

"I will be the best, the best, you know, you know the thing!”
- Joe Biden

CB's picture

@snoopydawg

Russian Covid-19 aid plane to US: Putin asked Trump if he needed help & he accepted, Kremlin spokesman says

A cargo plane loaded with medical supplies and protection equipment may depart for the US by the end of Tuesday, the Kremlin said, after a phone call between US President Donald Trump and Russian President Vladimir Putin.

The issue of protective gear was raised during the Monday phone talks, with Putin asking if the US needed help and Trump accepting, Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov told reporters on Tuesday.

Moscow suggested the aid in anticipation that the US will be able to return the favor if necessary, once its manufacturers of medical and protective equipment catch up with demand, Peskov said.
...

Wait for it..... 1..... 2..... 3.....

‘This is NUTS!’ Russiagaters see red over Putin’s planeload of corona-aid for Trump, queue to look gift-horse in mouth

Russophobic pundits and red-baiting blue-checks are gasping in horror and floating bizarre scenarios as Moscow prepares to send a planeload of much-needed medical supplies to the US amid its worsening coronavirus epidemic.

News that a Russian cargo plane laden with medical supplies and personal protection equipment would soon depart for the US, a gift from the Kremlin to its coronavirus-stricken rival, has the usual suspects running around in circles screeching about ulterior motives.
...
Replies to the high-profile Russiagaters’ tweets were even more unhinged, from accusing Putin of a “coverup” to warnings that the equipment would come pre-infected with coronavirus.
...

Wait until Americans find out how much stuff China is going to be sending in the coming weeks. More will probably die from apoplexy than from the coronavirus.

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10 users have voted.
snoopydawg's picture

@CB

No matter what Russia does they can't get credit for it. Joe posted a great article in the evening blues showing how this country is the biggest bully on the world.

"How you treat the most vulnerable..."

We are sanctioning more countries daily regardless of how many people die from them. Meanwhile every sane country is sending others help if they need it. We've sanctioned Russia for years if not longer and yet they put that aside and send us help because they make things and we don't. This really puts the final nail in the neoliberalism coffin. I posted an article on this in my essay if you missed it?

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9 users have voted.

"I will be the best, the best, you know, you know the thing!”
- Joe Biden

@snoopydawg
It was so easy to bully people with patriotism.

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2 users have voted.

We are so screwed.

Pluto's Republic's picture

@snoopydawg

Hillary and Neera are leading the charge.

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2 users have voted.

Human salvation lies in the hands of the creatively maladjusted.

— Martin Luther King

Hawkfish's picture

@JCWeb

is available from multiple other sources. My local NPR station has already stopped covering it and just use local experts. Washington’s 14-day doubling rate is 4.7 days vs the national rate of 3.15 days, so I think we are doing a better job.

Censorship is easy to to claim but the reality is that all journalism involves selecting which information / stories to report. I think making an argument via petition that the information content of these briefings is so low - and possibly even objectively dangerous - as to not be worth the time is perfectly reasonable.

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7 users have voted.

We can’t save the world by playing by the rules, because the rules have to be changed.
- Greta Thunberg

@Hawkfish … I wouldn't call the information value "low" when they presented various projections in the range of 100,000 up to 2.2 million deaths from this pandemic. I'd much prefer to watch the thing live and draw my own conclusions rather than listening to media summaries and sound bytes, thank you.

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6 users have voted.
Hawkfish's picture

@JCWeb

The values I quoted above were from my own analysis, and the mortality figures you cite have been in other sources for weeks now.

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1 user has voted.

We can’t save the world by playing by the rules, because the rules have to be changed.
- Greta Thunberg

edg's picture

You know that poem "First They Came"? It ends:

Then they came for me
And there was no one left
To speak out for me

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11 users have voted.
PriceRip's picture

@edg

          refraining from publishing bullshit is the foundation of responsible journalism. Aren't you old enough to know this?

RIP

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5 users have voted.

"I know you believe you understand what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant."
Robert J. McCloskey, U.S. State Department spokesman. From a press briefing during the Vietnam war.

snoopydawg's picture

@PriceRip

The main stream media spent it lying to us as well as the democrats. For gawd's sake they impeached Trump because of it.

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8 users have voted.

"I will be the best, the best, you know, you know the thing!”
- Joe Biden

Lily O Lady's picture

@snoopydawg @snoopydawg

actually BE censorship. Instead the press could summarize the actual information for the public without all the asinine grandstanding. They could provide a link to the full press conference that people could refer to. It seems a better, more informative presentation IMO.

Edited for clarity.

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4 users have voted.

"The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power. Now do you begin to understand me?" ~Orwell, "1984"

edg's picture

@PriceRip

First, I doubt you're you happy about the MSM's de facto censorship of Bernie Sanders and other progressive candidates. Why encourage more censorship than there already is?

Second, I have a remote control for my TV. Any time Trump comes on, I change the channel. That's the beauty of free speech. He can say what he wants. I can choose not to listen.

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9 users have voted.
Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@edg

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5 users have voted.

Actually, the issue at stake is patriotism. You must return to your world and put an end to the Commies. All it takes are a few good men.
--Q

Exit polls not involving George W. Bush or Hillary Clinton tend to be quite accurate.
--Doug Hatlem

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@PriceRip

and suggesting that we censor Trump is like suggesting we pick up one pile of horse pucky and dispose of it.

I mean--refraining from publishing bullshit? Don't we have five large corporations and, increasingly, two political parties and several non-profits and consulting firms all dedicated to doing just that?

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4 users have voted.

Actually, the issue at stake is patriotism. You must return to your world and put an end to the Commies. All it takes are a few good men.
--Q

Exit polls not involving George W. Bush or Hillary Clinton tend to be quite accurate.
--Doug Hatlem

mimi's picture

I don't get it. May a petition to close down his twitter account? That would be a change I want to see?

Way too late to be serious.

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7 users have voted.

Please donate to C99p so that the site can survive.

@mimi .. As I recall, that was at one time suggested by that one-time "top tier" Presidential candidate, Kamala Harris. We saw how her campaign crashed and burned, largely due to Tulsi's calling out her BS record as California AG in the July debate.

As noted above, censorship, no matter who is doing it, is never a good idea. And, frankly, Dems calling for censorship of Trump are shooting themselves in the foot as they are losing some potentially nice sound-bites that could be used in ads in the Fall.

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7 users have voted.
PriceRip's picture

          Not providing radio and television time for the paranoid schizophrenic to discuss his (or her) thoughts on the appalling living conditions of the unicorns living in the vicinity is a case of inappropriate censorship on the part of main stream media.

          Yes, I am comparing Trump to a paranoid schizophrenic. So while Trump is not a paranoid schizophrenic, he does in fact represent a real threat to society.

RIP

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2 users have voted.

"I know you believe you understand what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant."
Robert J. McCloskey, U.S. State Department spokesman. From a press briefing during the Vietnam war.

snoopydawg's picture

@PriceRip

to our opinions. Trump is not the only person speaking during the events and people are hearing good things from the various experts he has with him.

Look at who is pushing for this to happen. As I said it's people like Rachel, Hillary, Neera and others from the blue side of Twitter. Every time I look at Twitter there's Neera griping about something Trump did or did not say, but never saying anything positive about the situation. I feel like they have an agenda and are not being open with us.

You do know why move on came into being don't you? They wanted us to move on from Clinton's impeachment for perjury and for the country to get back to normal. But there they were at the top of the cheerleading list when Trump was being impeached. I feel that we're being manipulated into being against Trump. BTW just what are the democrats doing to counter him? Are they trying to get us advice or relief from the fear and worry about the epidemic? Nope. Not that I can see.

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4 users have voted.

"I will be the best, the best, you know, you know the thing!”
- Joe Biden

Governor Andrew Cuomo has been gaining a following because of his daily briefings in which he honestly, often bluntly, talks about the pandemic situation, and what NY State is trying to do about it. And this should give us a clue as to what we should be doing: we should not be obsessing about Trump and what he does. I'll write that again. We should not be obsessing about Trump. We should be talking about what needs to be done and how to accomplish it. Trump is a distraction. We should not watch his press briefings. We will find out anyway if there was anything important said at them. It would be far more useful to think about what we can do, and what society in general can do, to deal with the immediate crisis, and to ensure that the weaknesses and problems that were allowed to fester and led to the pandemic, that those things will be corrected.

A historical story: in the Civil War, the Union's Army of the Potomac was engaged in fighting against Lee's Confederates in what became known as "The Battle of the Wilderness". Most of the Army's commanders had fought against Lee before, and were wary of what he might do to their forces. As they held general council while the battle raged, they debated what Lee might be doing. Finally, their overall commander, General Grant, lost patience with the discussion: "You talk as if Lee could turn a somersault over your head and land in back of you! Now I want you all to go back to your posts and think about what WE will do to HIM!"

I doubt that Grant's language was quite that polite. But whatever he actually said, it had the effect of focusing his officers on the job that actually needed to be done, fighting the enemy in front of them. We also need to focus on the job in front of us, which is dealing with an unprecedented pandemic and the dire effect it is having on our unprepared society. Yes, we have an idiot for a President, and he has no idea what to do; he's just making it up as he goes along. That's part of the landscape, and we must accept it, and get on with finding out how to survive the virus and the collapse of our institutions.

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7 users have voted.
PriceRip's picture

@out of left field

          I have seen the "what to do" well articulated. I have also seen the RNC and the DNC do everything to consistently block progress. So, if your allies are within those ranks, you will not find a "Grant" among them and "Lee" will turn a somersault over our heads and land behind us.

RIP

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2 users have voted.

"I know you believe you understand what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant."
Robert J. McCloskey, U.S. State Department spokesman. From a press briefing during the Vietnam war.

PriceRip's picture

          All hail our savior ! And seig heil Trump as well.


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3 users have voted.

"I know you believe you understand what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant."
Robert J. McCloskey, U.S. State Department spokesman. From a press briefing during the Vietnam war.

snoopydawg's picture

@PriceRip

Here's a company that is trying to help with masks and distribution. Unless it was the stuff about gawd at the end? Isn't that what people are asking companies to do? Step up?

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3 users have voted.

"I will be the best, the best, you know, you know the thing!”
- Joe Biden

PriceRip's picture

@snoopydawg ,

          Trump is acting as the shill for this guy and many others. Trump, has obstructed efforts to mobilize a world war two style response to this threat in favor of patronage and cronyism. On the face of it this announcement sounds encouraging, but look for the payback.

          Trump is not the brains of this operation. He is just the (incredibly stupid and corrupt) front for the scam. Many have already gotten their take, and the money just keeps flowing. And none of YOU seem to be seeing it.

RIP

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4 users have voted.

"I know you believe you understand what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant."
Robert J. McCloskey, U.S. State Department spokesman. From a press briefing during the Vietnam war.

snoopydawg's picture

@PriceRip

I am very aware of the scam that's going on right now. It's not just Trump who has gotten us to here. Yes he didn't do everything he could at first, but many things that should have been done couldn't have because of the decades of neoliberalism and congress gutting many departments while giving money to the war machine. This is so much bigger than Trump or just one person. Read the greyzone article in the EBs. Or the one I posted in my essay that addresses this.

ICYMI o have written numerous essays on this corporate coup. Have you seen them?

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4 users have voted.

"I will be the best, the best, you know, you know the thing!”
- Joe Biden

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

why censor Trump when we didn't censor the New York Times for telling us the Bush administration's reasons for going into Iraq were just super?

This is kind of an example of what I mean when I say Trump is a sin eater for the establishment. Not a scapegoat--those are innocent, and he's not. A sin eater. One guy who falls on his sword to make everybody else look good.

We might censor Trump's pressers but I bet MoveOn wasn't (and isn't) interested in censoring the Russiagate nitwits, even though what they were doing was actually somewhat dangerous, in that it sought to get the American people behind the notion of conflict with Russia. As well as being a lie. Nobody says to ban George W. Bush from the airwaves for that bullshit with Iraq, nor his brother Jeb for that whole unsightly Jim Crow business. Anybody can do anything they want and say anything they want as long as they are not Trump.

Until I start seeing some equal opportunity bastard-bashing, none of the Trump-bashing means much to me.

And I don't mean on this site. I mean out in the world of respectable non-profits and big media.

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6 users have voted.

Actually, the issue at stake is patriotism. You must return to your world and put an end to the Commies. All it takes are a few good men.
--Q

Exit polls not involving George W. Bush or Hillary Clinton tend to be quite accurate.
--Doug Hatlem

PriceRip's picture

@Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal

          future corrections. I spent 35+ years fighting the inertia that sort of thinking created.

RIP

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0 users have voted.

"I know you believe you understand what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant."
Robert J. McCloskey, U.S. State Department spokesman. From a press briefing during the Vietnam war.

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@PriceRip

These are persistent failures. They continue, and get added to over time.

The past refusal to hold George W. Bush and Jeb Bush accountable still affects our lives. But it's not limited to that. The political parties and the legacy media still refuse to hold any of those involved in the criminal establishment and practice of the two Bush administrations accountable in any way. Bush is the Trump of the past, and we're redeeming him via comparison with Trump ("I never thought Cheney would look good to me!" sighed a friend--). Someday (assuming we're all still around), an elderly Ellen deGeneris will be telling us how Trump is a great guy with whom to have a dog and a beer at the ball game--not like that nasty feller currently in the White House.

Trump is currently the moral center of the sociopathic, amoral, nihilistic hurricane that is American political culture. Everything else, all manners of outrage, blow by as if we are Dorothy in the cyclone, but the center remains still, its moral assurance persistent and fixed. It's the only place, essentially, in the political discourse, where you can hold anyone responsible or make a powerful moral judgement. You can use your morality on Trump (and his followers). Try to use your morality anywhere else, and you're suddenly fighting a headwind of epic proportions.

That moral position is not defensible, in my eyes. So I won't participate in these public gestures of moral disapprobation against Trump by organizations which have winked, and are still winking at crimes which cost hundreds of thousands of people their lives. It would be different if this were the Grey Zone, or Code Pink, or Hard Lens media making this call. But this is MoveOn. They might as well be part of the DNC. No one, and no organization, loyal to either the Obama or, god help us, the Clinton wing of the Democratic party has any right to point fingers at anybody; not even at Trump.

That said, I'm not arguing that you don't have the right to do it, nor that you shouldn't post about it. I'm just saying I disagree with it--seriously so.

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Actually, the issue at stake is patriotism. You must return to your world and put an end to the Commies. All it takes are a few good men.
--Q

Exit polls not involving George W. Bush or Hillary Clinton tend to be quite accurate.
--Doug Hatlem

PriceRip's picture

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"I know you believe you understand what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant."
Robert J. McCloskey, U.S. State Department spokesman. From a press briefing during the Vietnam war.

"I have seen the "what to do" well articulated. I have also seen the RNC and the DNC do everything to consistently block progress. So, if your allies are within those ranks, you will not find a "Grant" among them and "Lee" will turn a somersault over our heads and land behind us."

As I did not refer to the RNC and DNC in any way in my post, I don't know why you comment as you do. Since you have brought it up, I am a long-time socialist and regard the RNC and DNC as the two wings of the same ruling class party. Since they are in power, in the short term we must demand that they act in the public interest and criticize them when they don't. And when a member of the ruling elite does attempt to act in the public interest, we should point that out, ask for more of that, and draw appropriate lessons.

Example: Gov. Cuomo has pointed out that this crisis has the patchwork of public and private hospitals in New York State acting like one, unified health system for the first time in, well, probably ever. The benefit to the public of having such a unified health system is obvious, and we should be demanding that this change be made permanent. I could cite many other examples of how the crisis of the pandemic is forcing society to institute sensible policies that were previously unthinkable. Far from thinking of eventually going back to "normal", we should be looking to build upon these steps forward. The situation opens possibilities for social change that did not exist before. We need to take advantage. Compared to this, what Trump says at his daily presser is small beer. Let's make him irrelevant.

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but I know that allowing Rupert Murdoch and Rush Limbaugh to have free reign over us has been a big part of how we got here today. Call it something, censorship, fairness doctrine, there is a place for it.

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snoopydawg's picture

There are always two sides to a story and we should look at who is telling the one that wants something to happen. Just saying.

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"I will be the best, the best, you know, you know the thing!”
- Joe Biden

Roy Blakeley's picture

but while I do not advocate censorship, I do think it would be good for the media to follow up on Trump's statements. He has been grossly over-promising and his lies need to be brought out. In addition, the actions of the Trump administration and, to a certain extent, the CDC are essentially negligent homicide. There needs to be a fair and comprehensive reckoning.

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snoopydawg's picture

She talks about how the people who are calling for censorship of Trump have been lying to us for years starting with the Washington post and NYT about the Iraq war and then about Russia Gate. How can they accuse Trump of spreading disinformation when they are just as guilty of doing it themselves. As always we should look at who is doing it and then ask why they are.

https://caitlinjohnstone.com/2020/03/31/peoples-skepticism-about-covid-1...

If anyone wants to see if what Trump says is true or not there are plenty of ways to verify it on the internet. This came from people like Neera and Hillary and then Rachel picked it up. They are the ones who have been pushing Russia propaganda on for 3 damn years. Chi Bono or what's their goal?

The comments are very interesting too.

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"I will be the best, the best, you know, you know the thing!”
- Joe Biden