Let's Talk About Trump Voters Instead of Trump

Too many liberals and Democrats seem obsessed with talking about Donald Trump all the time. It's all about the latest crazy thing Trump says or does and why he is the worst person ever. But it remains the fact that a GOP nominee who can't beat out head lice or traffic jams is somehow still tied or maybe even beating the presumptive Democratic nominee. If you want to understand WHY, you need to focus less on Trump and more on people who currently say they would vote for him in November.

I’ve actually talked with hundreds of people in one-on-one conversations about this election, who they think they might vote for and why. I’m responsible for leading a field team of about a dozen more people who’ve had hundreds more conversations around the same and similar topics. I’ve also watched as polls and focus groups end up reflecting what we are hearing at the doors before everyone else catches on. So if you want to understand the voters who are currently identifying as Trump “supporters” you should really listen up here and now. Because if you don’t understand why so many well meaning, working class people are currently saying “Trump” when a pollster asks them who they are voting for, you’re never going to win back enough of them to win in November.

The first thing you need to understand is that Trump’s “support” is soft at best. Several months ago when we first started listening to voters about the presidential election, the #1 choice for all working class voters was undecided. Now that the primaries are “over” and the two parties have presumptive nominees, more of those undecideds have drifted to Trump than to Clinton so far. But even those voters who now say “Trump” if given the choice don’t really like that choice. They are not excited about their candidate. As one example, the first five Trump “supporters” I talked to just a few nights ago had responses to the question of who they would vote for like this:

“Unfortunately Donald Trump.” (sad face)

“I guess Trump.”

“Definitely not Hillary!”

“I heard there’s a chance someone else might run. Is there? I guess Trump if it’s him and Hillary.”

“Dear God I hate to say it but if I had to vote right now it would be Trump.”

Most Trump voters are not enthused about voting for Trump. There are some who are, of course. But they seem to correlate very well with the 35% or so of GOP primary voters he was getting reliably, early and often in the primary season. But as the national polls have tightened of late, it’s not because millions of people all of a sudden enthusiastically jumped on board the Trump bandwagon. If anything, they’ve hesitated to do so and are still begrudging about doing it. That’s the first bit of good news for Democrats in November.

The second important thing to know is that the top issue of these voters is far and away the Economy. It’s not terrorism. It’s not immigration. It’s not, as far too many liberals seem to just assume, a fervent desire to back and openly racist candidate. Jobs and the economy are issue #1 in working class neighborhoods of any race.

This is potentially very good news for the Democrats in November if they run a truly progressive economic campaign. But it is also potentially very bad news if the party as a whole remains largely tone deaf on economic concerns. It further poses a unique and difficult challenge for the likely nominee and I will now explain why.

The New York Times called it the “B-Minus Economy.” Unemployment is low but that is buoyed somewhat by the number of people who have given up looking for work. We’ve been adding jobs for a record number of months but as we’ve done so wages still refuse to go up for the vast majority of Americans. We could probably add to it the effect of “B-Minus” health care reform in that the cost of health care for most people is still rising but rising less quickly than it did before. The legacy of the last 8 years and the Obama presidency is an economy that is growing slowly but where most of the gains aren’t being felt by working class people. We can argue that Obama should be graded on a curve given that he’s had a GOP opposition aimed at blocking EVERY single thing he’s tried to do, but voters are faced with the situation they are faced with.

Now add to that the fact that this economy that grows but doesn’t grow for me has been going on for the last 35 years at least. All those charts watch wages stagnate around 1980 while productivity and GDP and profits continue to rise. Yes, that occurred under Reagan and two Bushes but it also occurred under Clinton and Obama. Now we have a second Clinton running for president by wrapping herself tightly in the mantle of Obama.

Given that reality, a large chunk of working and middle class voters want to see real, fundamental change. They don’t want to see continuity with the past 35 years of American political and economic life. One sentiment I’ve heard echoed by voter after voter who is thinking of voting for Trump is the following statement in different forms:

“You know...Trump scares me. But I know what we get with Hillary. More of the same. More Clinton and Obama. I don’t know what Trump’s going to do and maybe he won’t be different but maybe he will. I gotta hope that something can change.”

In other words: I would rather have a really scary, really risky change than more of the same thing I’ve seen for the last few decades.

It’s kind of like the reasoning you see from people facing a terminal illness when the conventional treatments have failed to work. They will try any risky, experimental and potentially fatal new procedure knowing just how risky and unproven it is because nothing else has worked. This is the gut feeling of a huge number of swing voters. They don’t care about ideology or labels like liberal and conservative. They’ve voted for Democrats and they've voted for Republicans and on bread and butter economic issues they’ve seen largely the same results for 35 years. They feel, and quite rightly, that we need something radically different.

Sadly, it seems we Democrats aren’t going to give them that option. We’re going to say “stick with the Dem party establishment where things are slightly less bad for you than they are under Republicans” instead of voting for the scary, risky, crazy change guy. It leaves a major opening for the GOP and Donald Trump and Trump, for all his flaws has good political instincts on how to play up this frame.

If you listen to Trump speak for a long time (difficult, I know and rather painful) beyond the sound bites you get from the media, you’ll see he spends a ton of time talking about trade. This is an issue where both Democrats and Republicans have screwed over the American people. Clinton, of course, passed the most famous and the first of the big trade deals, NAFTA. He did this over the major objections of labor. Today Obama stands in support of the TPP, also opposed by labor and any smart progressive.

Trump talks endlessly about trade. And it’s hard for Democrats to credibly counter him on it, despite the fact that Trump himself is a major hypocrite on this issue with his companies making products overseas. His supporters don’t like it, but they often buy his defense that “I’m a businessman and need to make money in a bad system.” On the other hand, Democrats have to defend being major players in setting up that same system. This is a major problem which, by the way, would have been solved by having Bernie Sanders as the nominee.

Where Democrats DO have an opening, I think, is to focus on some smaller economic puzzle pieces, particularly around wages. I’ve talked to many female Trump supporters who nevertheless wish that Trump would join Hillary in supporting equal pay for equal work. Most working class people also favor raising the minimum wage and do not like what Trump has had to say about it. If we can hammer away at these issue specifics, we have a chance to peel away more working class votes.

In the end, it’s a double edged sword to learn that Trump voters are focused primarily on the economy. It means that we do have a chance to win over a lot of these voters without becoming racists, anti-immigrant xenophobes. The challenge, however, is that on the bigger economic picture we have a nominee who is tied in most minds to Wall Street and to bad trade deals while Donald Trump has been able to successfully paint himself as an outside on those issues so far.

That being said, I think Clinton’s foreign policy speech was a major mistake. Why? Because she reinforced the narrative that Trump was a risky, dangerous change and someone who was outside the mainstream. All of my work with swing voters suggest that change and someone outside the mainstream is exactly what they want. Painting him as a major break from the recent political past is a bad idea.

So what do I think would work instead? Number one, focus on economic issue specifics that appeal to working people. Second, paint Donald Trump as a con man who really is NOT any different than the usual politician trying to get votes. The reachable Trump voters are desperate for something different. You’ve got to convince them that he’s not, because if they still think he IS, no matter how scary that “different” might be, it’s going to be preferable to the “same”.

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Unabashed Liberal's picture

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Everyone thinks they have the best dog, and none of them are wrong.

Unabashed Liberal's picture

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Everyone thinks they have the best dog, and none of them are wrong.

Meteor Man's picture

from Obama's current safe and stable foreign policy?

Can I take a minute to think that over? . . . Ok! I think I get it. . . . Hold on a second. . . . More risky and dangerous than the monumental neo-conservative foreign policy failure of Obama's last eight years?

The mind boggles. Can I take another minute or two to think that over?

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"They'll say we're disturbing the peace, but there is no peace. What really bothers them is that we are disturbing the war." Howard Zinn

Hillary is more of a warmongering neocon than anyone left in the race!

BTW - Nice sig line.

A toke in time saves nine.

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thanatokephaloides's picture

Watch very carefully:

FUCK FOREIGN POLICY.

We need all of our Government's attention on domestic issues for a while.

We've been wasting our blood and treasure putting out everyone else's fires while our own house burns to the ground. That's got to change, now!

Does that help any? It should......

Wink

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"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar

"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides

lotlizard's picture

Many see Trump as extreme, a kind of regime change at home. Yet by the standards America herself sets, isn’t he actually a “moderate”?

Members of the U.S. establishment, Republicans and Democrats alike, insist on characterizing Morocco, Egypt, Algeria, Qatar, Jordan, U.A.E., Oman, Saudi Arabia, Bahrain, and even rule by militia in the failed state we have made of Libya as “moderate.”

Militia allies in Syria who exterminate Alawites, Shiites, and non-Muslims? “Moderate.”

Erdogan in Turkey? Killing Kurds, but Merkel and NATO need him. “Moderate.”

Mitt Romney, who said “We ought to double Guantanamo”? “Moderate.”

Netanyahu? Nothing to see here; “moderate.” Israel’s wall? “Moderate.” Trump could emulate Israel and instead of building a border wall, build a wall deep in Mexican territory that cuts off Mexican towns and villages from water and ancestral farms and fields.

Seeing as the above all exemplify the American idea of “moderate,” a Trump even at his dictatorial loudmouth worst would fit in perfectly.

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greywolfe359's picture

Obama's FP has been marginally better than Bush's. Clinton's might be worse than both. But I think most voters aren't thinking much about FP at all. The point most of these voters overall are making, though, is that even change for the crazy seems better than sticking with the status quo.

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WindDancer13's picture

garnered 38% of the vote of what people think the nation needs to be working on. The two topics that HRC has decided to push on: guns at 2% and foreign policy at 4%. Saying that she cannot handle the economy--which is exactly what is inferred--by saying she will put WJC in charge of it (nepotism or the most egregious kind) is not going to help her.

PS. I would not count Sanders out yet.

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We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit.--Aristotle
If there is no struggle there is no progress.--Frederick Douglass

Dem nominee or Green Party, he beats Donald and Hillary both at once, if necessary. Hope he is running in the GE.

Hope Bill and Hill go to jail. Really. There should not be different treatment under the law.

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WindDancer13's picture

of the masses becomes intolerable, the guillotines come out.

I think Sanders is going to take a different path as hinted at in the current organizing. The power may not lie in being the titular head of the country (cf Queen Elizabeth). It is possible that she could be trotted out for greet and meets, then sent back to her room to play with her Blackberry (monitored, of course).

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We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit.--Aristotle
If there is no struggle there is no progress.--Frederick Douglass

lotlizard's picture

War and debt is why our trains are broken

The military, surveillance, and security complex is draining the nation’s financial blood so fast there’s nothing left for non-cartel jobs and infrastructure.

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WindDancer13's picture

start making it quite clear to other nations that we are not interested nor desire nor support the wars of our government? What happens this November, and in 2018 and beyond when we start seriously replacing the war mongers and ultra-capitalists in all government positions? It took us a while to let things get this bad. It is going to take awhile to take back the country. We need to start studying how it was done in the past (and getting rid of all mechanical voting machines).

What if they gave a war and nobody came?

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We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit.--Aristotle
If there is no struggle there is no progress.--Frederick Douglass

mimi's picture

the US American people can really do that. Pretty much the game is over, I guess. We will see. I hope it would be possible, but ... do you believe yourself it is ever going to happen? I just wonder ...

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WindDancer13's picture

Other nations monitor what is happening in the US, and they do not trust us because of our government policies, but they rarely get to hear what US citizens think or believe.

If US American citizens are very, very loud and very active in trying to make changes to policies, it will become clear that these actions are being done against our will. If other nations can SEE us trying to make changes to how the government acts, then eventually they will begin to trust the people. It will also encourage other peoples to stand up to policies that support the US in perpetrating these wars and other injustices.

Replace the word "fairies" with democracy, equality, and/or justice:

[video:https://youtu.be/Q5ncRVfJ2y8]

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We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit.--Aristotle
If there is no struggle there is no progress.--Frederick Douglass

mimi's picture

will he hearing or reading about the louder noise they make, it really takes to live here and "feel the noise and the American people in person and first han" to understand it. I realized that over and over and believe me, it's disheartening to see how difficult it is to make other cultures and nations understand the US and its policies or it social issues. Of course intellectually they understand what they read, but not on an emotional intelligence level.

But I hope it will turn out differently and you will be proven right.

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Haikukitty's picture

than run the stronger candidate.

At best, Bernie could make some modest changes and reframe the conversation during four years in office. He'd still need to work with Congress, so its not like he could come in and completely remake America in a few years. Their little (gigantic) Corporate fiefdoms would still be safe. But they are so freaking greedy, they can't stand the thought of losing even a few pennies to the unwashed masses, and would rather lose.

This election has succeeded in making me completely and utterly disgusted with the Democratic Party, and while I'm still disgusted with the GOP, I can no longer see any appreciable distinction between the two. Nice work, DNC?

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WindDancer13's picture

but the precedent that it will set. On top of that, it brings out into the light just how bad things have become as well as shines a spotlight on those who have made it that way. Most worms don't like the light.

After the uprising of the 17th of June
The Secretary of the Writers Union
Had leaflets distributed in the Stalinallee
Stating that the people
Had forfeited the confidence of the government
And could win it back only
By redoubled efforts.

Would it not be easier
In that case for the government
To dissolve the people
And elect another?
--Bertolt Brecht

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We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit.--Aristotle
If there is no struggle there is no progress.--Frederick Douglass

greywolfe359's picture

When you talk about reforming Wall Street and bad trade deals, the two biggest macroeconomic issues, people start wanting to vote for Trump against Clinton. She's so tied to Wall Street and the economic establishment that it's best for her to just not bring it up. Which is why she's the worst possible candidate to run right now, but...yeah.

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WindDancer13's picture

HRC and her backers think people are. Even if Sanders does not win the nomination, they think he will just slink off quietly and that they people will just settle down like good little girls and boys. Ha!

The people CAN make sure that economic issues are at the forefront of any and all discussions.

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We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit.--Aristotle
If there is no struggle there is no progress.--Frederick Douglass

greywolfe359's picture

to better economic policy. I really hate the idea that we should give candidates we are going to vote for a free pass on bad or dumb ideas. I mean, I wish we could have even the integrity of sports fans. I mean yeah, I love the Pittsburgh Steelers but when they make a dumb trade or a bad decision, I criticize it as such. I'm not worried that anyone thinks I'm helping the Baltimore Ravens by doing so. That's one of the things that pissed me off so much about the Kos Ides of March Edict. We're not going to get better policy if we don't go after our "own" party when they suck.

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The push to conquer the globe for private profit has reached a critical stage. It needs millions of unemployed to tote the guns into battle, and to occupy those lands which are captured. If they instead have jobs, the people needed for this effort aren't going to be in a great hurry for three hots, a cot, and the right to kill with impunity. After all, under such a situation, those one might get to shoot will be shooting back.

Most people naturally prefer peace to war, especially as 20th Century American History attests. Wilson had to lie us into WWI. FDR couldn't go openly to war until the Axis provided him with the cause to rally the people. There was a fair amount of public opposition to the Korean Police Action, not that the history books covered it. Vietnam.

There is a reason the Pentagon wants killer robots. They don't get PTSD. But they don't occupy a conquered nation well, and that is what We the People are intended to do for the PTB.

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Vowing To Oppose Everything Trump Attempts.

Pluto's Republic's picture

And, you're right on the money, greywolfe:

...you need to focus less on Trump and more on people who currently say they would vote for him in November.

Dems have been screeching like jungle creatures over the politically incorrect red meat of Trump's outrageous attention-grabbing media baiting — and they are missing the profound information here. Especially the fact that Trump's supporters don't really care about his sticks-and-stones racist pandering — which captured the entire media and triggered their very serious concerns, all day, every day for the past ten months. Those voting for Trump in the primaries care about one single issue — getting screwed repeatedly by the system.

You know, Bernie was all over this before the Primaries. It was an important clue to Bernie Sander's strategy: He wanted to make a concerted effort to attract Trump supporters before Primary voting even began, because Bernie very correctly saw that his message would appeal to them the same way it appealed to the Left. He predicted that they would tire of Trump's pandering packaging of the bad deal American workers are getting. He wanted to be there to pick them up and enlist them in his movement.

The outrage! His supporters could never understand that message and couldn't get on board — and the right wing dems went straight-jacket nuts. The threat to the polarity that keeps the status quo in power had never been so great. The big guns came out early.

In any event, I appreciate this essay. It's timely, although it is not actionable this late in the game. Not that I can see. I do agree, however, that nothing is at all certain heading into the Party conventions. This is unusual. Change has been set in motion. Generational change. The only thing that is absolutely certain is that the elite "Party Units" cannot see it coming to save their lives.

I expect the unexpected.

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____________________

The political system is what it is because the People are who they are. — Plato
greywolfe359's picture

Here's the thing--most Trump supporters outside that hardcore third of them just don't care about the racism. That, I suppose is both to their credit but also something they need to take some blame for. They're not voting for him because he's racist but they're not going to vote against him because of that, either. Like many voters, they selfishly don't really get too excited about an issue they don't see as affecting them directly, and they can afford to pass on that consideration because of privilege.

That's the bad news. The good news is that they are open to a candidate who is for racial and social justice along with economic justice so long as that candidate is aggressively addressing their economic concerns. Because they just don't care. It's not going to turn them off from a candidate one way or the other or make them latch onto one. And I think it would go along way to helping cure that mild racism if they saw someone fighting for them who was also fighting for ethnic and religious minorities, who had a powerful message about how their struggle was one and that we needed to come together to topple the oppressors.

Not going to come from Trump or Clinton. I haven't given up all hope but I feel like we really missed a big chance with Bernie.

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hecate's picture

"let's dispel with this fiction that Donald Trump is appealing to the economic anxieties of Americans. Instead, attitudes about race, religion, and immigration trump (pun intended) economics."

He is a racist. The people who support him are racists. They support him because of his racism.

As Wayne Barrett, the journalist who has followed him longest and best, notes:

He actually started working it in 2011, when he thought he could run for president, so the race message that we hear in so many different places now, when he launched what he thought might be his campaign, it was a clear race message that was underlying it from the beginning.

I think his entire message can be reduced to one word: race. I think that's his entire message. You know, he carries New Hampshire that has the lowest poverty rate in the United States, that has an unemployment rate around 3 percent.

He carries every Deep South state. Does anybody remember that he's carrying every slave-owner state? He doesn’t even do well in Oklahoma, which was not a slave-owner state. I watched Jake Tapper and Dana Bash on CNN on Super Tuesday, and all these times they kept remarking, "How unbelievable it is that a kid from Queens is carrying this Southern state after this Southern state," but they never even speculate as to why.

Some 65% of these people believe Obama is a Muslim; 59% believe he was not born in the US: Trump used the racist birther issue, as Barrett notes, to begin bonding with his fellow racists beginning in 2011. The Trump people are little Mussolinis, who love them a big Mussolini; racist Mussolinis: 88% hug the slavery diaper, while 93% believe "blacks who can't get ahead in this country are mostly responsible for their own condition." And on and on and on. They are people of white identity politics. They don't like blacks, hispanics, muslims, gays and lesbians, or feminists: the only people they like are other white people, and the police. They could give two shits about the economy. What twists their undies is that whiteness is no longer uber alles. They are the last throes of the white people, "the last gasp of the old world order, in which white men ruled and anyone who didn't conform would be ostracized."

As Chauncey DeVega has correctly observed: "Trumpmania is a racist, white supremacist movement. [People] should stop pretending otherwise."

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Big Al's picture

there were about 5-6 Trump bumperstickers on the back. My first thought was trying to pull next to the dude and ask him if he was a racist. (See, I don't just do that shit here). Like calling Clinton and her supporters warmongers, Trump and his supporters are racist. A generalization for sure but there's no sense in beating around the bush on it.
I didn't do it, couldn't find a way to catch up. But it was my first thought.
Good information on where his votes are actually coming from.

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hecate's picture

on this blog experience no difficulty in describing Clinton and her supporters as war-mongers. I fail to see why there should be any hesitation in acknowledging another glow-in-the-dark fact: that Trump and his people are racists. And that that is the core of who they are.

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Pluto's Republic's picture

It's not sustainable from the bottom up. Can't be done.

The US still roams the world murdering brown people and seizing their resources. Those lives mean nothing to Americans. They don't care. They learned that from their leaders. In their hearts, Americans believe that all the brown people the US kills brought it upon themselves. Racism in the United States of Isolation springs from that very seed. It's a never-ending fever dream of moral guilt.

Every candidate on the Right ran on how many brown people they would slaughter in the world if they were elected. The candidate on the Left is the current champion of displacing and murdering of brown people.

All US imperial wars are race wars. The US vs. brown people of the world. I just can't clutch my pearls over Trump's political incorrectness on the TV in the midst of actual US carnage.

As for Bernie, I agree he could heal American sociopaths and reset the moral compass in the US. Just by leading. For a while, anyway. But I'm pretty sure he would be conscripted into the US killing machine, just as all presidents are. It's how the US has rolled from day one, and it is very, very profitable.

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____________________

The political system is what it is because the People are who they are. — Plato
WindDancer13's picture

What we have is Trump's rhetoric that has made it very clear that racism is still a huge part of our national makeup (which most people have tried to ignore). With the Clintons we have actual racist policies put in place, and more in the workings. Is a person less racist because their language is more refined?

Sanders being president is not the be all and end all of the movement. It is not the main objective.

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We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit.--Aristotle
If there is no struggle there is no progress.--Frederick Douglass

hecate's picture

anybody has suggested ignoring the racism of the Clintons, or of anyone else.

It's . . . interesting, that so often the first reaction of Trump apologists is to point to the squirrel of some other body's racism.

The point here, is the "fiction that Donald Trump is appealing to the economic anxieties of Americans," and the fact that "Trumpmania is a racist, white supremacist movement. [People] should stop pretending otherwise."

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or greywolfe is a Trump "apologist" here. I think you're also making this a bit too simplistic. Trump would NOT be where he is today without the racism, that is a given. But the point is that racism has been nurtured and used for decades in very subtle ways for far too many Americans. They aren't all like us out here on this site, who debate, analyze and work on our own ugly racist voices that have been passed down to us for generations. Greywolfe makes the very important point that many of these people do not face their own racism, they deny it and think that denial is all they need to do. And that is a far more complex issue.

Sure, Trump is a bigoted blowhard, but don't you wonder how much of that is spin? How much of that is he exaggerating to get attention? Look how our media goes after that again, and again, but they do NOT discuss his economic plans seriously, at all. And when you have the "other side" bleating on and on and on about only the bigotry and sexism, then that makes it damned easy for the ConservaDem to merely howl "racist" and not bother to look into just how that racism is used to obscure the very real anger over a shitty economy that no one seems to give two shits about making better.

No, we're out of dog whistle territory now, but the PTB are still using race as a proxy for who we should vote for. And when one of the policies of the PTB is exposed for what it is, great example here in the TPP, why they'll scream racism about anyone who doesn't agree with that. Is it racism to be against TPP or angry at Mr Obama for ramming that through? Fuck no, but they'll spin it that way and even Obama has spun it that way.

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Only a fool lets someone else tell him who his enemy is. Assata Shakur

greywolfe359's picture

There are definitely people who oppose Obama for racist reasons or oppose Clinton for sexist reasons. I think that all good progressives should call them out when that is the case. However, it is too quickly used as a shield by establishment Dems to try and label all opposition to them on any issue is inherently racist or sexist. Clinton has been painting Bernie supporters as all being male and sexist and that flies in the face of reality where the largest bloc of supporters are actually young women. When she's asked about Wall Street speeches she cries "double standard" implying male candidates wouldn't be asked about them when the truth is that none of the male candidates in this election have made speeches to Goldman Sachs for hundreds of thousands of dollars.

And yeah, if I can paint all my opposition as racist, I don't have to respond to any of the real concerns held by ANY of them. That's a terrible place to be.

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hecate's picture

"sure, Trump is a bigoted blowhard, but don't you wonder how much of that is spin?" None of it is spin. It is filthy diarrhea that daily sprays from his mouth. There is no need, or even way, to spin it: it speaks for itself. It is consistent with his words and actions over more than four decades. He is a racist, and people who support him are likewise racists. And it is untrue that "racism is used to obscure the very real anger over a shitty economy. Again, "let's dispel with this fiction that Donald Trump is appealing to the economic anxieties of Americans. Instead, attitudes about race, religion, and immigration trump (pun intended) economics." "Trumpmania is a racist, white supremacist movement. [People] should stop pretending otherwise."

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Shahryar's picture

with his "he's a Mexican" baloney. Previously he'd said some stupid, racist stuff like the Mexicans who are coming into the US are "rapists and murderers" and that he'd ban Muslims from entering...but stupid as those comments are, he was talking about non-citizens.

By calling a man born in Indiana "a Mexican" he's blown it. He's shown that he can't see the bigger picture, beyond those "Trump people" you talk about. He's still pandering to win the nomination....which he's already won! This new thing is making people say "too far" and "yup, he's a racist...or at least pandering to racists" and "my god, he's as bad as hecate says!"

The only people who defend it are those "Trump people". As we're seeing, even Repubs like Gingrich can't abide it.

That blank-blank Trump is going to give us President Her Ladyship. He's giving her so much ammunition she won't have to work hard to blast him and those who admire him, not for racist reasons but because he's "tough", will think Hills is just as tough. He's going to get clobbered in the general, whether or not we vote.

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hecate's picture

People have been saying he's "blown it," he's "lost the election," since the day he announced, with that ugly, despicable "rapists" filth. But he just keeps on a-chooglin'. Fact is, lots of Americans believe just as Trump does, that if you're not white, you're not American, no matter how long you've been in this country. Trump, he speaks for them.

As someone who's Asian-American, all my life I've dealt with people who assume that I speak Chinese. The majority of times I get in a cab, one of the first questions from the driver will be, "Where are you from?" (And they're never satisfied when I say "Buffalo.") There was also that one time a woman held up some Japanese food and assumed I knew all about it because, well, just look at me.

When you look different, there's still an assumption that you're a bit foreign. Sure, you've lived in the United States your whole life and you're a citizen. Maybe you and your parents—or even grandparents—were born here. But you still must have ties to wherever your ancestors came from, because you're not white.

That type of behavior is no longer confined to random cab drivers or ignorant people on the street. It's now being pushed by the Republican Party's presumptive presidential nominee.

And yes, it would certainly be nice, wouldn't it, if he was running against somebody who was not also unappetizing and unacceptable. : /

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WindDancer13's picture

However, I do like facts. Beating Trump and his supporters over the head for being racists and ignoring HRC's and much of the rest of the country's racism is in effect accepting racism as long as we don't talk about it or make it visible.

Take a look at the link provided by you in another comment that says

93% believe "blacks who can't get ahead in this country are mostly responsible for their own condition." And on and on and on.

This statement was from a poll done in August 2015, so fairly early in the campaign while Trump was building his base by using racist language. A lot has changed since then.

The most telling point though is that 86% of non-Trump Republicans also agree with that statement. I would hazard to say that a good percentage of HRC supporters and even some actual progressives would also agree with that statement given how little change has been done to support minorities. The fact that so many choose to support a Clinton candidacy knowing the racists policies that they passed the last time indicates this.

The May 2016 poll that you reference in your other comment is drawn from a selected group of Trump supporters:

There's been a lot of recent coverage of Donald Trump's embrace of various conspiracy theories, so we asked about a bunch of them on this poll to see which ones his supporters believe and which ones even they say are a bridge too far.

That is hardly a scientific measure. It also ignores the fact that this is about the same percentage for all Republicans. In 2008, HRC said she didn't know and passed around a picture of Obama that portrayed him as a Muslim. I am sure that had nothing to do with how people perceived Obama, right?

I have never pretended that Trump is not a racist. Some people need to quit pretending that this country is not racist period, and we have the policies to prove it.

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We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit.--Aristotle
If there is no struggle there is no progress.--Frederick Douglass

hecate's picture

polls and surveys, dozens of them, and I could quote them all day, if they would make a difference to you. For instance, there have consistently been numerous surveys showing that the percentages of Trump voters who believe Obama is a Muslim not born in this country are significantly higher than any other sorts of persons. Dozens and dozens of polls and surveys and studies have confirmed that Trump supporters are the most ignorant and bigoted of Americans.

You say you like facts. The facts are these: "Trumpmania is a racist, white supremacist movement. [People] should stop pretending otherwise."

And, again, this is not about chasing some squirrel involving somebody else's racism. This is about "dispel[ling] with this fiction that Donald Trump is appealing to the economic anxieties of Americans. Instead, attitudes about race, religion, and immigration trump (pun intended) economics."

Trump is a racist, and the people who support him are racists. And the racism they share: that is why they support him.

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hecate's picture

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Hawkfish's picture

I posted an essay on this very topic in the middle of the maintainance yesterday morning. I think the voters who support him are mainly from one of the four large cultural attractors in the US called "Borderers". Among other things, this group is somewhat clannish and it may be hard to see them by just talking to people.

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We can’t save the world by playing by the rules, because the rules have to be changed.
- Greta Thunberg

kharma's picture

The people I see who support him are pissed at how they have been ignored for the last two generations and they are ready for any kind of change. Obama promised it and smoothly sold it and we got diddled. Trump is promising it forcefully with a flourish of racism/zenophobia and people are still gobbling it up, because anything (to them) is better than where they presently are.

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There is nothing which I dread so much as a division of the republic into two great parties.. This...is to be dreaded as the greatest political evil under our Constitution.--John Adams

Big Al's picture

voters to vote for Clinton? Or Sanders? If it's Clinton, you're barking up the wrong tree on this blog. I seriously doubt this blog is going to work to get Clinton elected over Trump, unless I'm totally misreading things.

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greywolfe359's picture

One is that yes, Sanders would be a much easier pill for these folks to swallow than Clinton who is so enmeshed with Wall Street and free trade that it's hard to have much hope in her. That's why he does better in GE polling match ups and would out perform her. I think it's also to shake up liberals who pat themselves on the back just because they are less racist or xenophobic than the loudest of the Trump supporters and so are willing to dismiss anyone who has a negative opinion of Clinton for other reasons. They've allowed themselves to be blind to Democratic faults just because SOME people who hate Democrats hate them for very bad, very appalling reasons and for that reason don't actively work to correct those faults. The way demographics are going, playing identity politics and ignoring economics will keep the donors happy and let you win a lot of national elections something like 52-48. But it won't produce governing majorities in Congress. It won't reverse the trend in a lot of states toward GOP dominance at the state level. It leaves us with divided government and divided people and no vision that would unify a BIG majority that is necessary for the kind of real changes we need.

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Cassiodorus's picture

If the alternative to Trump is going to be Clinton, why should I care? It's up to Clinton to get her own voters. I'm not going to be one of them. Once again, Gopal Balakrishnan:

On numerous occasions since the 90s the left has rallied to a center-right candidate to ward off the far-right and the results have been disastrous. Not only is the far right strengthened by bolstering its credentials as the only real opposition force to the establishment, the left is drastically weakened at the expense of the center-right.

Clinton versus Trump is Clinton as "the status quo as something nice and cheery" versus Trump as "the status quo as a dangerous alternative, but an alternative nonetheless." Moreover, liberals who are fooled by the image-making might miss the aspects of Trump's policy advocacy that run to the left of Clinton's.

Anyway, it's nice to see a description of Trump's supporters that doesn't paint them all as violent white supremacists. I'm glad to take a break from the "omigod Trump is HITLER" schtick which summarizes the "Left's" description of Trump neatly. In this regard I have yet to see the Trump version of Mein Kampf or for that matter any sort of Trump brown shirts terrorizing my neighborhood. Thanks for writing and putting out this piece greywolfe.

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'French theory is a product of US cultural imperialism." -- Gabriel Rockhill

greywolfe359's picture

There are SOME of his supporters who are like that but they're not reachable. There ARE voters who are reachable if we put up better candidates. And yes, I think there is a very bad precedent in allowing the right to take on the mantle of being "against the establishment." I mean, by going with such a thoroughly entrenched establishment nominee, the Democrats have helped give credence to the idea that the right wing is somehow more anti-establishment than the left.

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