would have drug Hillary through a whole pile of mud about her legal problems. Bernie didn't. Perhaps he is a gentleman. Perhaps he is deeply nonviolent. And perhaps he cares more about us than about Hillary.

Both men meet on stage

Maher: Bernie, you packed the House!

Sanders waves to crowd, smiling and Maher chuckling...

They sit.

Maher: Ok, all right, ah... Bernie, Bernie, Bernie... (crowd laughs & Sanders smiles more)

Maher: What is your tour bus like? So, uh, now -- you're in California, obviously because the primary is coming up. This is the biggest state, I always say we should get a lot more representation in the Senate than we, sh... do..

Sanders: You think you should have more Senators than Vermont?

Maher: Exactly. That's where I was going with that, but we'll leave that for another day. But what would it say to the Democratic establishment if you were to win -- and the polls are about even now, with you and Secretary Clinton -- what would it say if you were to win in the biggest state?

Sanders: I would think that it would say to the establishment that the people are sick and tired of establishment politics and economics, and they want real change in this country. And if we can, Bill, if we can win here in California, and I think we've got a good shot to do that, and if we can win in many of the other states that are coming up on June 7th, uh, we will go into the Democratic Convention with a great deal of momentum. That's what it says.

Maher: Well, I think you also go in, with, after this email, uh, report came out this week A little more than momentum. Now you famously said, in one of the first debates with Hillary Clinton, 'Oh, I'm tired of hearing about the email'. And, you know, for, for a long time I was tired of hearing about the emails. And I still don't think she committed some horrible crime. But that story has moved a little bit, has it not?

Sanders: It has. Uh, but this is what I also think. There is enormous frustration on the part of the American people with the way we do politics in this country. And when most politicians do is say, "I'm great, you're terrible. Vote for me the other guy is the scum of the earth, blah, blah, blah, blah." But you know what? People are hurting in this country. You know, our middle class is disappearing, we got a lot of poverty, we don't have healthcare for all people. People want us to talk about their lives and their issues and not just spend our whole lives attacking our opponents.

Maher: And we were, uh, we were teased with something that was gonna be an amazing show, I thought, earlier this week. Which was a Bernie Sanders - Donald Trump debate. [Sanders grunty-rumbles] That was brooded about [again, Sanders grunty-rumbles]... what?

Sanders: I would have loved!

Maher: Oh, I know! And, uh...

Sanders: Let me just say that...

Maher: ... Mr Macho chickened out.

Sanders: ... ah, that's what I was gonna say. First he said, he would do it. Then he said he wouldn't do it. Then he said he would do it. The he said he wouldn't do it. So, I would hope, that if he changed his mind four times in two days.. Change it a fifth time! You know, Trump claims to be a tough guy, pushes people around, [Sanders address Trump directly here] "Hey, Donald, come on up, let's have a debate about the future of America."

Maher: Yeah, I mean, I think, a lot of us, and I count myself, who have supported you -- even if you're not the nominee, uh, we would like to see what a clear choice would look like. Now I would like it in the election. But, minus the election, I would at least like to see it in a debate. Because when you see the Republicans debate among themselves, which is all we've seen so far... they live in the bubble. Ok, where global warming doesn't exist, and where President Obama doesn't exist...

Sanders: Oh he exist. He exists, and they have spent eight years trying to obstruct everything that he has tried to do.

Maher: Ok, so, uhm, I think you have about 46% of the voted delegates at this point?

Sanders: Yeah, pledged delegates.

Maher: So very, very close. But you are always, in polls, winning against Donald Trump where Hillary Clinton now is either tied or losing. If those polls got to a point where Hillary was, maybe 10 points behind Donald Trump... what I'm tryin' to get to is what is the tipping point, where delegates would actually go, "Oh, you know what," cause they want a winner...

Sanders: They want a winner.

Maher: They want a winner. Where they would say, "You know what, we ARE backing the wrong horse."

Sanders: Well here's the weird thing about this process. Uh, four hundred or more super delegates actually supported Hillary Clinton, came out publicly before anybody else was in the race, before the first ballot was cast . And I think your point is a good point. A lot has happened since that point. And what every person at the Democratic Convention wants to do, is to make sure that Donald Trump never becomes President of the United States of America. And I think your point is an interesting point. These delegates, even if they have supported Clinton from day one, they're gonna have to take a hard look and say, Look, if Bernie Sanders is beating Trump in many instances by double digits, not only in national polls, but in many state polls, I think we're 17 points ahead of him here in California. If that's true, and if there are states where Clinton is actually losing to Trump, where Bernie is winning.. shouldn't we make sure that the Democratic nominee defeats Donald Trump? And that is the issue that they're gonna have to deal with.

Maher: What I don't understand about this race, is that on the Republican side it seems to be ok to say well Donald Trump, as much as we may think he's a crazy person --

Sanders: And I do. Let me just say this, I mean this is not just... I have a lot of Republican colleagues and, and friends who I disagree with. They're not crazy, they're honest people. This guy is a pathological liar, and again I don't mean to be malicious, but that is just the damned truth. And uh, he would be a, not only an embarrassment, a real danger to this entire world, if he were to become President.

Maher: So, that's coming from someone he calls "crazy Bernie". [Sanders belly laughs] Uhm, so what, uh, and I've been trying to get this answer out of everybody who comes on the show, what is the right strategy to run against Donald Trump, because obviously, Hillary Clinton doesn't have it. What would be your strategy?

Sanders: That is a good question and I would not be honest if I told you that I had figured it out yet. Because he is so unpredictable, because he lies all of the time. Because he changes, not a joke [Maher "right"], because he changes his mind all of the time. What he said yesterday is no longer valid today, how do you deal with that?

Maher: And more importantly, he's not held accountable to that, as other politicians are.

Sanders: That's just Donald Trump, he changes his mind 14 times in a day. So it is not easy. I think, for a start, probably one of the effective approaches against him, is to really point out to what I think most Americans understand, is that we are proud, deep down, of our diversity. The fact that people come from all over the world, become Americans and contribute to our country.

Maher: And some of them marry Donald Trump [crowd laughs]

Sanders: Um, I honestly think that the vast majority of the American people are not happy with these vicious attacks on Mexicans and Latinos and Muslims and women. That's one way, I think, you can make the case against him. The other thing, also, he is primarily a showman, he is a very good manipulator of the Media. But the truth is, he has no ideas on public policy and the ideas that he has are absurd. [Maher: right] Giving hundreds of billions in tax breaks to the top 2/10th of 1% is not particularly good public policy.

Maher: But you know that if he runs against you, the big word is going to be socialism. And at the risk of annoying you, because I talked about this with you before, I'm going to take another run at this. Socialism, uh, it's not a bad word to your crowd. It's so funny, there's such a generational divide in this election, the people under forty, next to Adderall, they love you the most. Because they don't even remember the Soviet Union. And capitalism has not really worked for them. And you know, you are not a socialist in the sense that everything has to be socialist. You're like every other modern, intelligent country in this world. Quasi-socialist. Capitalism works for most things, but some things should be off-limits to the profit-motive. Healthcare, prisons, I would say covering the elections, elections themselves. So can't we just make that case?

Sanders: Sure we can, sure we can. Look, number one, the greed of Wall Street and Corporate America is such that there is now a profound anger against the top 1/10th of 1%, who appear to want it all and could care less about the Middle Class in this country. But the second point that you're making is that I think most Americans understand that in the year 2016 it is not a radical idea to say that public colleges and universities should be tuition free. That the wealthy and large corporations should start paying their fair share.

Maher: The, uh, State universities USED to be free.

Sanders: That's exactly right!

Maher: It's not like we're doing something that new.

Sanders: No. That's right, we're going back to where we were 50 years ago.

Maher: Right.

Sanders: Is it a radical idea to say that the United States should join the rest of the industrialized world, every other country, and guarantee healthcare to all of our people as a right? I don't think so. Is it a radical idea to say that we should not have a corrupt campaign finance system in which billionaires buy elections? I don't think so. So your point is well taken. Look, entrepreneurial-ship, etc, creates a lot of good things in this country and a lot of wealth. But the American people are entitled to know that they're gonna have healthcare, education, decent housing, the basic needs of life should be there for all of our people.

Maher: Bernie Sanders everybody. Bernie, thanks you so much for always coming here. Appreciate it. Keep doin' it Bernie, don't quit!

-- end of Sanders interview with Bill Maher on his HBO program Real Time with Bill Maher from Friday, May 27th 2016.

http://caucus99percent.com/content/word-about-voting-november-okay-many-...

ETA: Eek. I've been posting on this thread without noticing how old it is. How did it get to the front page after four plus months?

So is it to hell with the Democratic party if its Hillary, but not so much if its Bernie?

Because if you could possibly wrest power away from the assholes who are hell-bent on destroying the party, you'd have a framework of an organization that you could start cleaning house in. If you could even come close to doing so, then there would appear to be some redemption to be had.

Theoretically, anyway. You still have to deal with the Party as if it does exist, in order for Sanders to have a way to run at all. And it does, so it is always a possibility that he wins, and now he's won for the Democratic Party. As its leader, he would be and should be expected to work to take the Party back to where it needs to be on the American political spectrum--much, much farther left than it is now--and other like-minded people can then help him advance that goal.

Now, if you think it's so compromised that he shouldn't try to work within that framework at all, well, I'm not sure what to tell you. The guy has to start somewhere, though. I think details of that nature must be worked out once he actually wins.

Regardless of which party banner he ran under, Bernie is sui generis. Everyone knows he was indie or newer party all his life. Everyone knows he has criticized both of the two oldest political parties. Everyone knows he ran as a Dem only because he thought he'd have a bigger media megaphone as a Dem. And, if they didn't know all that at the outset, Hillary and her squad made those things campaign issues.

Electing Bernie would not be a be all and end all solution. He'd still have nothing but establishment Democrats and Republicans running Congress. However, voting for someone who is struggling to get 5% of the popular vote is not a be all and end all solution either. Neither is forming the umpteenth new party since formation of the Republican Party.

The current reality is that the Democratic Party and the Republican Party are in control. Having Bernie elected POTUS would have been a strong message. Besides, Bernie's run alone proved certain things to Americans, like you can run for President without lobbyist money, and that inspired and energized them. I don't and can't discount any of that.

FWIW: I don't think Bernie was threatened or that he ran to shill for Hillary. (According to leaked DFA memo, DFA thought Warren should run to make Hillary a better candidate.) My theory seems to be on its own on this board, but I am not trying to push it. I think it's past time that we stop obsessing about Bernie's motives and figure out what, if anything, we might be able to do to impact the duopoly (adversely, of course).

kabuki show is getting old. For 16 long years we've had to watch this absurd circus. They are complicit the D's and R's. How many times can the Democratic party blow off any power or majority we the people grant them with our vote. Jeezez look at the progressives we mamage elect. They fold like a cheap tent they are poodles. If the Democrat's we elect won't fight for us and take all the prescribed remedies off the table fuck em. Why didn't the Democrat's start drawing up impeachment papers when bush and co. flagrantly tore up our rule of law. They abolished the separation of powers and checks and balance and normalized/ legalized their crimes. Both sides declared all universal human and civil rights we're tools they needed to 'keep us safe'.

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...and her legions of frothing worshipers have managed to alienate so much of the electorate that we're looking at President Trump next year, guess who they will turn around and blame? Uh huh.