A Path to a Different Sort of Victory
The pundits are all abuzz about whether or not Bernie Sanders has a "path to victory" in the Democratic primaries. Handicapping the horse race in all its minutiae from "the true math" to speculation over superdelegates and the size of campaign war chests fills the airwaves and plugs the tubes of the internets.
They are talking, largely, about a victory within the arcane electoral rules set up by the parties, but they are generally studiously ignoring the elephant in the room - the struggle of the 99% to achieve political and economic power.
Underneath all of the bloviating and rhetoric, power is what the so-called insurgent candidacies are really about.
Insurgent candidates threaten 1%-dominated party structures
The success of insurgent candidates is making for some interesting discussions about the future of the the two American corporate parties. The parties hold a virtual monopoly on national elective office and the people seem to have caught on that America is an oligarchy where, in the words of a noted academic study of political influence by Gilens and Page:
“In the United States, our findings indicate, the majority does not rule—at least not in the causal sense of actually determining policy outcomes. When a majority of citizens disagrees with economic elites and/or with organized interests, they generally lose. Moreover, because of the strong status quo bias built into the U.S. political system, even when fairly large majorities of Americans favor policy change, they generally do not get it.”
How did the people catch on? Well, despite the media and politicians talking up an economy that doesn't appear to include them, the fortunes of average Americans are in decline and there is anger in the land:
Over the past 35 years the working class has been devalued, the result of an economic version of the Hunger Games. It has pitted everyone against each other, regardless of where they started. Some contestants, such as business owners, were equipped with the fanciest weapons. The working class only had their hands. They lost and have been left to deal on their own. ...
Over the past 35 years, except for the very wealthy, incomes have stagnated, with more people looking for fewer jobs. Jobs for those who work with their hands, manufacturing employment, has been the hardest hit, falling from 18m in the late 1980s to 12m now.
The economic devaluation has been made more painful by the fraying of the social safety net, and more visceral by the vast increase at the top. It is one thing to be spinning your wheels stuck in the mud, but it is even more demeaning to watch as others zoom by on well-paved roads, none offering help.
What's more, average Americans, despite a bunch of snotty economists telling them that they don't understand free trade and that they are better off because of it, are experiencing righteous rage against the technocrats and expressing it at the polls:
Were the experts wrong about the benefits of trade for the American economy? ...
What seems most striking is that the angry working class — dismissed so often as myopic, unable to understand the economic trade-offs presented by trade — appears to have understood what the experts are only belatedly finding to be true: The benefits from trade to the American economy may not always justify its costs.
In a recent study, three economists — David Autor at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, David Dorn at the University of Zurich and Gordon Hanson at the University of California, San Diego — raised a profound challenge to all of us brought up to believe that economies quickly recover from trade shocks. In theory, a developed industrial country like the United States adjusts to import competition by moving workers into more advanced industries that can successfully compete in global markets.
They examined the experience of American workers after China erupted onto world markets some two decades ago. The presumed adjustment, they concluded, never happened. Or at least hasn’t happened yet. Wages remain low and unemployment high in the most affected local job markets. Nationally, there is no sign of offsetting job gains elsewhere in the economy. ... In another study they wrote with Daron Acemoglu and Brendan Price from M.I.T., they estimated that rising Chinese imports from 1999 to 2011 cost up to 2.4 million American jobs.
These trends are being dealt with by the insurgents in two different ways. Bernie Sanders is organizing what he calls a political revolution. A mobilized public will force popular changes on the government. He is taking no money from the usual 1% sources and is funding his campaign through small-donor money. This provides a sense that his priorities lie with the 99% that mobilize behind his issues and fund his campaign.
Donald Trump, on the other hand, is already rich, he has funded other people's campaigns in the past and is now going out on his own. He claims that he's "unbought" and makes the seeming rift with the Republican establishment a theatrical production of epic proportions. Fortunately for him, much of his support base has not figured out that he is a candidate of the 1% for his party. The clue is in all of the free media coverage he gets from the 1%-owned media. When the 1% media wants to freeze out a candidate, they cut them off from coverage or trivialize their campaign as they have done to Bernie Sanders.
While Trump has his establishment enemies, and they are nervous, Donald Trump at this point in the election cycle looks like he has a better than fair shot at becoming the Republican nominee, thus the chances of a Republican party split are diminished. The Democrats are quite another story.
Conditions Favorable for a Democratic Party Split
The contest between Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders is tightening. For the Democratic establishment, there is considerable fear generated by polling showing that large numbers of Sanders supporters will not support Clinton under any circumstances.
Many people are wondering if the Democratic party can hold together as the schism grows between the Democratic establishment, which has cashed in its credibility as a party of the people and become the other party of the 1%, and the left/liberal/progressive base.
In the late 1980s, the DLC Democrats (and now the Third Way/Clinton Democrats) embraced the professional class and embraced complex solutions to our nation’s problems. They consciously moved away from labor/working class and towards an elitist embrace of banksters, the emerging “geniuses” of Silicon Valley, and the college-educated at all levels.
They even went so far as to suggest it was a good thing that much of America’s blue-collar working-class high-school-diploma jobs go to China and Mexico, as we here in America needed to move to the “new economy” jobs of technology, medicine, and finance, requiring a college education.
This ideological change in the Party led to the Clinton-era 1990s policies that gutted our industrial base, ripped apart the social safety net (ending “the era of big government”), and financialized our economy. ...
The policies that came out of this new Democratic Party ideology (largely taken from the 1950s Republicans) have resulted in a boon for the professional class, but almost totally left behind the bottom 90%.
Within the Democratic base, people are angry, disgusted with the establishment and ready for a change.
The Sanders campaign was right on time in responding to this trend. Many pundits are now saying that win or lose, Sanders has irretrievably affected the election. In fact, by showing the base that something better is possible, Sanders has opened the space for a much larger change than just the results of one election.
The party is now in the position of having to sell itself to a major portion of its base again, it can choose to change or it can run the party institution into the ground with the likelihood of competition arising.
This is an Opportunity for a Negotiated Surrender by the Establishment
While the pundits are bloviating about whether Bernie Sanders has a path to victory, there is a larger victory available for the movement that has coalesced behind Sanders.
What is happening here is a struggle for power.
There is a path to victory for the 99% whether Bernie Sanders wins or loses.
Sander's movement should take a cue from Bernie himself. Sanders' choice to run as a Democrat had little to do with his love of the Democratic party. It was a pragmatic choice to leverage the resources of the party against the malefactors of great wealth represented by the Democratic Party:
Asked by an Ohio voter why he chose to run as a Democrat, despite having served for years as an independent, Sanders explained his thinking. "We did have to make that decision: Do you run as an independent? Do you run within the Democratic Party?," he said. "We concluded -- and I think it was absolutely the right decision -- that A) in terms of media coverage, you had to run within the Democratic Party." (B, if you're curious, was that you needed to be "a billionaire" to run as an independent.)
There is no good reason for the movement to have any sentimental attachment to today's Democratic Party which has done all that it can to destroy the insurgency growing inside its ranks and gathering outside its gates.
If Sanders wins the primary, he and his movement could begin the arduous process of rebuilding the Democratic party from within. It might be worth it, but the 1%ers and their liveried lackeys inside the party are not going to give it up easily. Over the long haul Sanders' people could swell the ranks of the party and begin to take it over from the grassroots up. But there will be considerable internecine fighting with the vast numbers of third-way, neoliberal morons like Chuck Schumer who occupy elective office and will not just desert their ambitions because Bernie won an election.
Sanders, if elected, will have proven beyond doubt that the money and connections of the DLC corporate faction are not needed and that will encourage decent people to run for office again against powerful party trolls.
It's important that this battle is also carried on from outside the party to keep party gatekeepers with their manipulations that favor incumbents and foundation funders from sabotaging reform efforts and limiting their scope and scale.
Win or lose, the movement that Sanders has encouraged to mobilize will have to organize itself for independent action.
This asymmetric struggle between the party establishment and the left/liberal/progressive base will require us to construct independent channels for communication and promotion before and after the election is over.
After the primaries if Sanders does not win, the struggle is one where the weaker power's eager cooperation and energy is desperately needed by the stronger power for it to succeed.
Concessions will be offered, soothing platform platitudes will be spoken. The party machinery is already preparing the paperwork:
If Sanders arrives at the Convention with a sufficient number of primary victories and between a third and half of the delegates, he will also be able to influence the Party’s platform. ... “He will come out of this with a prominent voice, with a committed e-mail list of people united around his issues,” Anita Dunn, who worked for Bill Bradley’s unsuccessful campaign against Al Gore, in 2000, and was one of Obama’s top strategists during the 2008 race and later in the White House, said. “That is the beginning of a potential movement, if he chooses to build on it. It’s not as though these issues are going to go away. Fundamental inequality and the inequities in the political process are not suddenly going to be fixed by anyone.”
Sanders' supporters should not accept this far less than half-a-loaf, no matter what platform concessions or promises (carefully-worded for later parsing or denial) are on offer from the party establishment.
Surely after years of experience no left-leaning group should play Charlie Brown to the establishment's Lucy holding the football. Everybody knows that the establishment candidates will say or promise anything to get elected.
From the article above, in the words of Sanders himself:
When I spoke to Sanders last week, he refused to speculate about any Convention scenarios that didn’t include him as the nominee. “I look forward to her dropping out and giving me her strong support,” he said. He was adamant that Clinton could not deliver the kind of change that voters are demanding, no matter what policy positions she adopted. “The issue is creating an economy and a political system that works for all Americans and not the one per cent,” he said. “That does not happen through a speech. That happens by reaching out and mobilizing millions and millions of people. There is no indication that Hillary Clinton has ever done that, or ever wants to do that. You don’t go and give speeches behind closed doors to Wall Street and be the same person that is going to rally the American people. That just does not exist.” ...
“What matters is whether or not, if she is elected President—and we’re in this to win—if she’s going to stand up and fight. And I think there are many people who will tell you, look, that will not be the case. Look, anybody can give any speech they want tomorrow—somebody writes you a great speech—but the day after you’re elected you say, ‘Well, you know, I talked to my Republican colleagues and they think this is not acceptable.’ ”
“The question is not what she says. The question is what her record has been and what she will do if she is elected President.”
The good news is this, in this situation, all that is necessary for the weaker power to win is to walk away from the table and stay away until the stronger power concedes.
There will likely be a furious war of words. There is likely to be a progression.
"First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win."
-- Mahatma Gandhi
We have already been ignored. The needs of the 99% base have been cast aside in order to serve the 1%.
We've been through the laughing stage. Hillary is inevitable. We have the true math. If you leave Hillary, where are you little people going to go, to that madman Trump?
We are now in the fighting stage, and Clinton is bringing the sleaze. The good thing is that Clinton's negative campaigning is making it easier for people to stay away from the table.
In a microcosm of the larger conflict, the web community that calls itself the largest Democratic progressive community blog in the United States, recently declared its support for Hillary Clinton and issued an ultimatum to its community base that criticism of Clinton must be reined in.
Significant numbers of very active members of the community, well more than a thousand, voted with their feet in response to the forceful exertions of the party site in support of the establishment and its candidate.
The party establishment is being a bit more careful than the occasionally excitable owner of the largest progressive community website; they are being careful with their rhetoric. They will try to take in as many Sanders supporters as they can with lies, intimidation and appeals to fear about the rising tide of Trump's fascists.
The movement will have to keep its priorities in order during the tidal wave of election rhetoric.
The Prize is Power
There are two ways to win. If the establishment concedes and the insurgent movement seizes the party, that's one way of winning. If the party establishment refuses to relinquish power and essentially commits suicide, that's another way to win. It happened to the Whigs and it can happen to the Democrats.
Without the support of average Americans, the party cannot be used as a tool by the 1% to promote austerity, rigged trade agreements, imperialism, wars of choice, militarization of police, domestic spying and rules that rig elections.
Left-leaning people can take back the political space that the Democratic Party occupies to block meaningful progressive change if they choose, the opportunity awaits them.
Comments
Heh, I was going to point that out.
The platforms already are pretty much compatible. I think when I took that test I sided with Bernie 93% and Stein 91%. I'm not sure what "hammering out" would even need to occur although I'm sure there'd be some learnings in terms of "best of both" type thinking.
At least for me, voting Green is pretty much the same as voting Bernie except at least right now, Bernie has a better chance of winning.
A lot of wanderers in the U.S. political desert recognize that all the duopoly has to offer is a choice of mirages. Come, let us trudge towards empty expanse of sand #1, littered with the bleached bones of Deaniacs and Hope and Changers.
-- lotlizard
To me that limit's my vote
to a candidate that isn't going to get enough votes to even register as a protest. I voted for Jill Stein in 1012 and she got less then 1% of the vote. The Greens do not actively campaign there weak tea. they seem to prefer to be a fringe movement. Maybe this will change but until they fight with some teeth to become a viable movement they are not my choice. I'm writing in Bernie. Even though in my state they don't bother to count the write in's.
There could easily be similar stuff happening in the GOP
Say Hillary gets the most delegates and in the GOP Trump does too. I think that might open the way for a third 1%er candidate along with Hillary and Trump. Then it becomes a 4 way race with the social media going more and more for Jill Stein. Then Jill actually might have a shot at being President.
Beware the bullshit factories.
Dayum, Joe. This is really good!
Bravo! Inspirational too.
I'm all in for Bernie. He's stuck with me.
For so long I wondered who held the puppet strings. Then I found TOP, and learned who they were. Then you know who obviously started getting paid by $hillery, and it's like he, and the others went all Manchurian Candidate supporting this horrible person like programmed freakin' robots. And they're willing to sell their souls, cheat, lie, abandon morals, etc. all to help her become Queen.
Truly sad, but. . .
So glad I found this place! You folks rock!
evening deja...
thanks for the kind words, and welcome!
if you are interested in who rigs the system and how, sheldon wolin's, democracy incorporated is a useful guide.
great article joe
Somehow I missed that on alternet (it was a few years back). Sad but well stated.
I've been amazed at Bernie calling them out by name...Waltons, GE, Goldmann sacs, Kissinger, ....
That's why they're fighting us so hard.
“Until justice rolls down like water and righteousness like a mighty stream.”
I'm so sick ...
of the two Neoliberal Parties and their Good Cop, Bad Cop Bullshit. What's the matter with my fellow 99%-ers ? It's their Goddamned reliance on the Picture-Box. One of the reason Sanders does so well with the youngsters is that they watch less TV than their elders and have alternative sources for their information. This is a healthy trend.
We wanted decent healthcare, a living wage and free college.
The Democrats gave us Biden and war instead.
Hey there, Mr. Z!
It took a while, but I finally got here.
Well,
we're still trying to do the organizing over at the other place, so check your messages every once in a while. Picnic on April 30, Open Thread every Sunday at 5.
We wanted decent healthcare, a living wage and free college.
The Democrats gave us Biden and war instead.
evening azazello...
i think you're in to something with the correlation between less reliance on the idiot box for information and not buying into the good cop, bad cop narrative. i think that the other thing that is going for the younger generation is that they largely don't buy into the culture wars narrative, either. both of those tendencies spell doom down the road for the strategies of the two parties that are one.
Excellent point, joe
The youngsters take the whole culture wars, the only thing separating corporatist tweedledee and tweedledum, for granted.
They're ready to face today's beast.
Azazello's point is well made also. The young'uns have liberated themselves from the idiot box (perhaps only to surrender to the iPhone).
My Then 16 y.o. son told ME about Bernie;
He was watching Bernie videos on YouTube via his iPhone right after Bernie announced his candidacy. I was just beginning to learn about him too, but my (then) 16 year old son asked if I'd heard of this guy named Bernie Sanders.
My 21 year old daughter off at college is a fan as well. She's baffled at the numbers of AAs backing Hillary, knowing what she does about that horrible woman. I've shared videos that she can use, hopefully, to change a few minds.
Neither of them watch TV, but they do like certain shows they stream on a TV.
Our future leaders, (at least the ones with independent thinking/research abilities), are Bernie supporters, and that comforts me!
and I think he does well with the youngsters, because
they feel the heat, when they have to work and pay their tuition or student loans. It's overwhelming for many and they won't be fooled, hopefully.
https://www.euronews.com/live
Thank you for this excellent essay/ blog/ diary whatever you
call it. I have felt for a while now that if Bernie doesn't win it's okay b/c of what he's started. Tens of thousands of people have phone banked, thousands have canvassed and millions donated. We are not going away.
I have joined openprimaries.org. Little by little we will overcome.
Thank you again.
Don't believe everything you think.
evening hester...
thanks for the kind words. i personally am trying to avoid the "diary" terminology, since it seems like a kind of weird thing to call an article, commentary, essay or post that you are writing for others to read rather than yourself.
I think one of bernie's key achievements is raising the expectations of huge numbers of people. they will not soon forget what now seems possible.
Carlin's "Don't Vote" strategy...
seems more and more plausible as time goes on.
I say we make em OWN their Feudalism by making them enforce their decrees without the consent of the governed. No, I am not calling of anarchy. (Which is of course the immediate rebuttal...)
I'm just saying that if the law is corrupt, the only way to be just is to be an outlaw.
I do not pretend I know what I do not know.
evening dmw...
the only problem with carlin's don't vote strategy is that there is always going to be an enfranchised minority that will vote. hell, the founding generation had envisioned limiting the vote to a rather small portion of the population, anyway. if the lower classes fail to vote, then it renders very effective all the measures that they took to limit their ability to participate and the power that they can exercise.
perhaps a more effective boycott than the voting booth might be the workplace and the commercial square.
Except they really don't care if we don't vote...
Unfortunately, but they will certainly care if we suddenly put some other party on the map, even if its only by a few more percent.
I actually am incapable of not voting at all, because I feel like its a responsibility to make my voice heard the only way I can, but I don't have to vote for one of their two "authorized" teams.
This is the money quote
How any of Hillary's supporters can look at her history from the time she was First Lady, SOS and then flying around the country and giving paid speeches and still vote for her is mind boggling.
There was a time that progressives were against all the wars, the fraud committed by the financial institutions and all of the other crap both Obama and Hillary is or has done.
People in the Middle East are being killed, their countries have or are being destroyed and no one on the left seems to care about it.
The banks are continuing to the things that crashed the global economy and another crash is on the horizon.
Bernie is offering us the last chance this country has to turn around before it's too late but people won't give him the chance.
If Hillary wins we will get the same shit we have been getting from Clinton and Obama.
If Trump or Cruz wins, well I can't imagine how bad things will get.
There were problems with running a campaign of Joy while committing a genocide? Who could have guessed?
Harris is unburdened of speaking going forward.
But, "I've been waiting to vote for a woman all my life"
and "it's her turn."
Jill Stein is a woman.
Jill Stein is a woman.
And should Bernie not pan out, I would be quite happy to vote for her.
They say that there's a broken light for every heart on Broadway
They say that life's a game and then they take the board away
They give you masks and costumes and an outline of the story
And leave you all to improvise their vicious cabaret-- A. Moore
As will I,
As will I.
I Laugh Every Time I Hear That...
My own wife said that last year...
Now she's looking at the issues and says Bernie is almost "Too Good To Be True."
I'm pretty sure she's thinking Elizabeth Warren is a better choice for her vote for the 1st woman president so she'll be waiting a little bit longer...
I'm the only person standing between Richard Nixon and the White House."
~John F. Kennedy~
Economic: -9.13, Social: -7.28,
evening snoopy...
presumably, if you are comfortable enough, say in the top economic quintile, hillary might not look so bad to your prospects. that can paper over a lot of other concerns.
Join the Great Election Boycott of 2016
We must have a new system, this one doesn't work. The only way to do that is to reject the current one.
Voter turnout for the 2012 elections
was somewhere between 54.7 to 54.9% in the sources I searched. That means something a little over 45% of the voting age population 'boycotted" the elections in 2012. How many do you think we could get this year? How many does it take to change the system? I maintain that if Trump gets 2 votes, and Hillary gets one, the powers that be will declare Trump the winner, and that will be that.
"I’m a human being, first and foremost, and as such I’m for whoever and whatever benefits humanity as a whole.” —Malcolm X
I think turnout in 2012 was 37% of all eligible voters.
I imagine if there was an organized and publicized boycott led by the right people we could get it below 30%. The purpose would be to reject the current system in numbers that can't be ignored, making it clear that those not voting are withdrawing consent from being governed under this political system. I've said many times that we have an existential problem that requires an equally bold solution. Voting is not a bold solution and neither would be voting for third parties. Voting for politicians is one of the illusions we been conditioned to accept and one of the hardest to let go because people believe it's important. Trump vs. Clinton isn't a choice, it's the final sign that this political system is a farce.
Some one wrote this comment in Steven D
How true is this? And if they get back in the White House just imagine how much more damage they will be able to do.
How bad would it be if Bernie ran as an Independent? Is that an option even though he says that he will support her if she wins. She is everything that he's against.
There were problems with running a campaign of Joy while committing a genocide? Who could have guessed?
Harris is unburdened of speaking going forward.
If Bernie feels he has some
If Bernie feels he has some obligation to support Hillary should it come to that, that's on him. He's his own person, but then again, so am I.
I am under no similar obligation.
They say that there's a broken light for every heart on Broadway
They say that life's a game and then they take the board away
They give you masks and costumes and an outline of the story
And leave you all to improvise their vicious cabaret-- A. Moore
Sorry, wrong comment
I didn't proof read before posting.
This is the comment:
There were problems with running a campaign of Joy while committing a genocide? Who could have guessed?
Harris is unburdened of speaking going forward.
Part strategy, part manifesto.
You make the case, joe, through a deftly-constructed argument. It describes a very specific course of action for Sanders supporters to follow, if they are to take over control of the Democratic Party. What's more, your argument demands immediate action from every supporter.
This strategy must be put into action by supporters before the primaries continue any further. There is but a short window of opportunity for the Sanders coalition to achieve two important goals:
1. Take over the Democratic Party by forcing the Third Way Dems to surrender to the Sanders Democratic Socialists before the convention. (It can be done.)
2: Prevent the splitting of the Democratic "voting bloc" and the seizure of of all three branches of government by the Republicans.
It follows that Sanders supporters must publicly declare which is their first priority in 2016: Victory for the Democratic Party? OR Unwavering commitment to Bernie Sanders and his vision for America's future?
Pick one.
Pick it now.
Publicize it relentlessly.
Maintain solidarity.
The Third Way Democrats have already chosen Party over People. That is their greatest weakness and their current vulnerability.
Establishment Democrats must be forced to switch their support to Sanders BEFORE the Democratic Convention. (The number of delegates won by Sanders is completely immaterial.)
You must convince establishment Democrats that the Democratic Party will lose in 2016 if they do not nominate Bernie Sanders for President. Convince them that their candidate will lose because you will not be participating in the 2016 election, otherwise. (True, that.) More importantly, remind the establishment Democrats that they will lose the lavish riches they currently enjoy inside the Party sausage factory. Their affiliation with a doomed and defeated candidate, Hillary Clinton, will destroy them. They'll do anything to avoid that.
And, you can say you built that.
But will the Sanders supporters act in their own best interests and force this different future to come into existence? Or is Bernie or Bust just a hashtag? Is the courage and coalition there?
One thing I've noticed is that this idea is floating everywhere, all of a sudden. It's time has come. I've seen "do or die pushback" discussed in comments in Slate, WAPO, Atlantic, Reddit, and several other forums. Furthermore, I've seen opinion pieces just over the past few days, mentioning that Bernie voters will not support Hillary, and thus adjusting their polling numbers and expectations.
But nothing will happen unless you declare your position and negotiate a Bernie nomination. Right now, you have great power because you can assure a loss for the Democratic Party. They have nothing to counter with. But this power is only temporary.
Their plan has always been to block Bernie at the convention. Once they have you at the convention, they believe you will surrender to your political fears and follow Hillary the rest of the way back to the plantation.
Nice work, joe. Hope I didn't take too many liberties with your manifesto.
Yr friend,
Pluto
IMAGINE if you woke up the day after a US Presidential Election and headlines around the the world blared, "The Majority of Americans Refused to Vote in US Presidential Election! What Does this Mean?"
@Pluto's Republic
Can you please repost this EVERYWHERE?
You're right! However, we need your very intelligent and poignant self at the forefront. I certainly can't write like that!
? Por favor?
dkmich is the one who can powerhouse this
…packaging parts of joe's manifesto, my tactical how-to, and her connections and savvy about how to give a formal Pledge social media legs.
Time is of the essence. It's up to Sanders Supporters act now. Sanders cannot go there. This is a strategy OUTSIDE of the campaign. Sanders must stay in the Primaries until the very end. The primaries are killing Hillary. (That's another pathway, but not the preferred one. Too much risk.)
Hey. I'm just "Pluto."
IMAGINE if you woke up the day after a US Presidential Election and headlines around the the world blared, "The Majority of Americans Refused to Vote in US Presidential Election! What Does this Mean?"
evening pluto...
right on!
this is like any other asymmetric negotiation. if you are unwilling to walk away from the table, the other party will walk all over you.
i've been putting this together for a bit over a week in my copious spare time. i am glad that you are seeing the same ideas elsewhere since reinforcement will help move the ideas forward.
i like the way that your comment presents an action plan.
let's do this thing!
yes and we need a movement name, as
this action plan has to be implemented in the real world.
Next week is a sit-in at the Capitol for the whole week, organized by Rise99 and Democracy Spring. It's a movement that protest against money in politics. It may be good idea to have this "Bernie or Bust or Pluto's action plan with another name" promoted there with signs and people sit-inds as well.
I don't know how to do it, but to me it would logic to piggy-back on to that movement's sit-in and bring the idea that the movement will not tolerate to bend the knees to the Establishment Democratic Party and will walk away from the table. It needs to make noise and images for the TV cameras to catch. The Real News Network is live streaming those sit-ins. This sit-in is daily from Monday to Friday, so I think it makes sense to use it for Pluto's action plan to get a kick-off.
You have so many talented people, who know how to organize this. I hope it can be done.
https://www.euronews.com/live
... unless there is something in this sit-in movement
that I don't know about and would be counter-productive. And of course I have no idea what the hashtag is good for, so, this was not meant as dismissive. Sorry for sounding like it. I edited my comment's title above for that reason.
https://www.euronews.com/live
something that's been bouncing around in my head today
The fact that the Democratic Party is foisting a candidate and a campaign from the last century. The country and its citizens have moved on from Bill Clinton and the 1990's. Why are we getting a Clinton rehash in 2016? It boggles the mind.
This is a new century. We need to swing the country back to the left ala FDR but for the 21st century. I think we need a New Century Progressive Party, if we were to name it. Just a thought.
It's a structural flaw. Jefferson warned of this threat
…to generational sovereignty that would undermine the government if the US did not update the constitution every 20 years. At this point, it's entrenched and wholly obsolete. Because it is not relevant to the 21st century (and began its life as a slave-owner's appeasement document), the American people have no personal sovereignty and are in grave danger of totalitarian rule.
Here's what Jefferson said:
Thomas Jefferson supported rewriting the Constitution every 19 years, and equated not doing so to being 'enslaved to the prior generation'
To put this in perspective: Every modern and emerging nation in the world has a modern constitution that addresses human rights and the people's reasonable aspirations in the 21st century. On average, constitutions are revised every 30 years. If you believe that is not possible update the US Constitution, that means that the people have lost their self respect and are hopelessly enslaved. Jefferson:
In the busy and vibrant world of global constitutional law, the US Constitution is rarely referred to anymore. It is irreverent, archaic, stingy in conferred rights — and it can no longer be amended. Americans are just beginning to wake up to their isolated enslavement in North America and their complete lack of the right to self-determination.
Beginning source: http://press-pubs.uchicago.edu/founders/documents/v1ch2s23.html
IMAGINE if you woke up the day after a US Presidential Election and headlines around the the world blared, "The Majority of Americans Refused to Vote in US Presidential Election! What Does this Mean?"
I remember you pointing this out in the past, Pluto
It's really important. Ty.
Stay on track. Stay in lane. Don't throw rocks.
Thanks, Miep. I've never lost my focus.
This reality of deliberate constitutional enslavement defines the future of the American people. It's has thus been easy to predict the dismal events of the present. Americans cannot free themselves and control their rogue and corrupt government because their minds refuse to recognize the sole cause of their malaise.
Their sad enslavement (due to conflating their obsolete constitution with the word of god) is what they want to shove onto the backs of the Millennials.
Little wonder this digitally-connected generation utterly rejects it. For Millennials, the weasel words "incremental change" are an overt assault on their rights and humanity.
IMAGINE if you woke up the day after a US Presidential Election and headlines around the the world blared, "The Majority of Americans Refused to Vote in US Presidential Election! What Does this Mean?"
They get to live with what older people
Have allowed to happen.
They should probably be the only people allowed to vote, these millenials. I don't think I'd like everything they voted for, but I don't know as how that matters all that much.
I would care more about whether we can even be friends. I can't look at these children without feeling dismally guilty.
My whole life, spent seeing it coming, and such failures of plots to make it right again.
It's probably right in front of our faces. It usually is.
Stay on track. Stay in lane. Don't throw rocks.
I love that you do not lose focus on this very subject, Pluto/nt
[redacted]
I can't stand the way I comment. Sorry for not being capable to shut my mouth when I should.
https://www.euronews.com/live
ok, I guess that was too meany anti-american ranting...
... I will redact that soon. But it represents my honest uneducated feelings.
https://www.euronews.com/live
you may have explained something i've had on my mind
progress seems slow in the U.S. and i have long attributed that to the fact that we are still a young country. there are still kinks in governing that need to be worked out but my rotten luck i was born a hundred years too soon to be living in a more socially democratic U.S. European countries, however, have existed for a much longer time for their governments and societies to have evolved. their close proximity to each other might have been a contributing influence, while the emerging U. S. stood apart across an ocean in isolation.
if, as you say, that constitutions are revised every 30 years then that alone could explain why Europe seems to be a more modern society than the U.S. if that is what they have done then it isn't just the natural order of their long, plodding history that i have assumed placed them where they are today. the U.S. is stuck to a stodgy, 200+ year-old document. no wonder some Supreme Court decisions seem questionable when they have to rely on interpretation of the old Constitution instead of rules and laws that might already be laid out in a new modern updated Constitution. the problem with instituting change in the U.S. has always been its size. pulling its citizens together to unite behind new ideas will continue to be prohibitively difficult due to the size of the population and the different strains of mindset in the different geographic regions.
Because of the Clinton's narcissism,
we can't put them behind us.
Beware the bullshit factories.
i'm will be contacting some the elected superdelegates...
...and express my willingness not to give my vote or support to Clinton in the general election. furthermore, i will can also withhold my vote to my Senate and House representatives in their next elections. the elected superdelegates need to get the message, too.
the superdelegates also need to consider that for all the years the Democratic Party has been courting Independent voters, and it now being the largest percentage of voters, the Independents are adding to the Bernie wins. Wouldn't they want the same in the general election? The Independents being shut out of closed Democratic primaries will be voting in the general election.
if the Bernie or Bust movement is large enough for those numbers to be factored in and contribute to a possible loss for Clinton then maybe the superdelegates will reconsider their support for her. especially, if it means their own congressional seat at risk. they will keep their place in congress without Clinton in the White House.
Your comment speaks to another tactical truth:
Once the GOP dumps Trump at the convention and inserts Jeb or Ryan or some other useful tool of a candidate — many Trump enthusiasts will lose their zeal to vote.
The one thing that can force disenfranchised Republicans to the polls would be Hillary's very existence as a candidate. Hate radio has invested decades programming listeners with a pavlovian hysteria-panic triggered by anything Hillary. They will drag their asses out of their recliners and flood the polls in order to urgently vote against her.
The bubble-bound DNC couldn't have made a dumber choice in backing Hillary. By any measure, she's the most booby-trapped candidate on earth.
IMAGINE if you woke up the day after a US Presidential Election and headlines around the the world blared, "The Majority of Americans Refused to Vote in US Presidential Election! What Does this Mean?"
No shit, sherlock. Rec'd!
Inner and Outer Space: the Final Frontiers.
This is awesome
Pluto and Joe, two great minds bringing an idea to life!
The problem in the past is that liberals have always allowed themselves to be bullied and cowered into capitulation by the fear of the evil Republicans and/or Supreme Court appointments, etc. What Bernie Sanders has done is ripped the curtain back to show that the Democratic establishment and the Republicans are both owned by the same oligarchy and neither one of them care a whit about we the people.
Now what is happening is that a significant number of Sanders supporters are saying that they will refuse to vote for Hillary. I have read that the number is 1/3, which should enough to do major damage to Clinton and prevent her from winning. the Presidency. If the Democrats nominate Clinton and she loses, then the party is dead which may be the best thing in the long run. I do not believe that concessions as to platform or even token support for the issues that Bernie has brought forth is enough. Clinton has proven that she is not to be trusted.
This is why what Pluto has posted is so important because we need to be ready well before that time. We have power if we stay together and are willing to walk away from the party. I am willing to walk away from the party and I think a lot of the millennial voters are willing to do so too.
Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy
This is such a great piece to end my day with, Joe.
Jeeze. Just a couple of months ago, I wouldn't have dreamed of not voting for a Democrat, even if I had to hold to my nose and do the "lesser of two evils" thing. Now ... wellllllllll ...
Suddenly it's all hit home ... the truth about this Big D Party. I think back to the two times I voted for Bill and the two times for Obama, and I realize that I actually have been puzzled all these years about why progressives get nothing but occasional crumbs from this party. Couldn't wrap my brain around it until now. We give the party our votes and wind up ignored. Over and over and over.
Will your blueprint work? Who knows? All I can say is that I personally am ready to give it a shot. I can't afford to keep giving my vote away for nothing ... and neither can the rest of the 99%. There's way too much at stake this go around.
Well done, Joe ... really impressive work!
"Long term: first the rich get mean, then the poor get mean, and the rest is history." My brother Rob.
evening pat k...
thanks for the kind words!
i think that this is a time when a lot of traditional (new deal) democrats are looking at the party and asking themselves what happened . they are finding a party that only gives lip service at best to the things that they believe in.
it's long been time for a change and it looks like we might be building to the critical mass of people that can drive that change.
It's in the yellow book.
Any old-school, FDR Democrats who wonder what happened to the party should read Frank's book. It's different now, economic justice is off the table. Neodems aren't bothered by inequality. Hell, they approve of it, they think it's the natural order.
We wanted decent healthcare, a living wage and free college.
The Democrats gave us Biden and war instead.
Have you seen this, Z?
https://www.jacobinmag.com/2016/02/geismer-democratic-party-atari-tech-s...
Yes ...
MB posted it at TOP. It's basically the same argument that Frank makes, without the detail and the great writing.
We wanted decent healthcare, a living wage and free college.
The Democrats gave us Biden and war instead.
the book?
Frank?
I still haven't managed to watch the one hour (i think) interview on Thom Hartman but... anyway...
"Neodems (perfect term!) aren't bothered by inequality... " It serves them to sustain the econ ineq, they need an underclass, their whole rickroll depends on that status quo not being upset. It also helps feed to divide us, race/class, which they also need and will continue to fan those flames.
The book is Listen Liberal by Thomas Frank.
It's a must-read if you're into electoral politics. Neodems is my term, 'cuz they're Neo.
We wanted decent healthcare, a living wage and free college.
The Democrats gave us Biden and war instead.
Thanks for posting this, Azazello ...
I thought I knew what you meant, but wanted to make sure.
Sigh. I keep a notepad by the computer at all times just to write down all the books I need to read. Boy, is that list getting long! I love it!
"Long term: first the rich get mean, then the poor get mean, and the rest is history." My brother Rob.
I think this is a
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masterpiece
A truth of the nuclear age/climate change: we can no longer have endless war and survive on this planet. Oh sh*t.
evening do...
thanks!
i'm just applying the lesson my dad gave me in how to buy a car from a dealer back when i was 19 years old. his wisdom has stood me in good stead for many a year.
I remember when you told this story in detail for the first
time and it stuck with me, because I never knew how to buy a car from a dealer. I have never learned how to deal for a lower price. Prices are fixed in my mind and I can't get rid of that attitude. I can't deal with the notion you have to deal. So, it's a lesson quite essential to learn.
https://www.euronews.com/live
Heh... I hate haggling so I developed my own strategy
I picked the car I wanted and researched what a reasonable selling price for it was. I found the 4 local dealers who had the car I wanted. I went to each and said the exact same thing.
The first three salesmen, all male (interestingly enough) did exactly the same thing. They quoted me the sticker price and then got utterly astonished when I wrote down the number, said thank you and walked away. Each time they tried to tell me a second number and I ignored them as I left the lobby. The fourth saleswoman listened to my statement and then quoted me a number even below what my research had indicated. I showed her my research and asked if she was making any profit at all on this deal. She said, "You missed the fact that we'll get a kickback from the manufacturer so yes, we'll be happy." I bought the car from her.
It was quick, efficient, and haggle free. But yes, I needed to be willing to walk away... from all 4 dealers if need be.
A lot of wanderers in the U.S. political desert recognize that all the duopoly has to offer is a choice of mirages. Come, let us trudge towards empty expanse of sand #1, littered with the bleached bones of Deaniacs and Hope and Changers.
-- lotlizard
I've done that as well...
Buying a used work van...
I had gone to a number of places looking, I initially told them leave me alone don't follow me around the lot pestering me, I'm looking to see what you have, when I'm done looking I'll come see you, meaning you and not another salesman here...
Follow me around pestering me and I'll just leave you won't have a chance...
I then went around the lot looking at the vans appraising there condition, options, book value, etc. and when I was done I went to the salesman and told him the ones I was interested in and that with the number he was giving me was their one shot at a deal...
I was going to listen to his offer and record it on my list, but I was definitely buying very quickly and paying in cash, and he'd be up against other used van deals from others, and if his was the winner I'd be calling him and returning cash in hand to buy the van... Take your best shot! It's your only shot...
Some gave really decent numbers, others not so good, and a few didn't get to make offers as they followed me around pestering me, and I left...
One of the last places I went t on a Friday afternoon had a good number of the make and model van I wanted, but had high mileage or, 6 cylinder engines which in my experience resulted in almost no change in fuel economy, and an underpowered van, that always had its engine screaming on acceleration, or hills...
The salesman was pretty good and had been very respectful about leaving me alone, he had run back to the office and gotten all the keys for the vans I was interested in placing the keys inside the gas filling door on each van so I could check each one out alone...
He gave me prices and they were really good but I wasn't happy about the mileage. He said that in the near future he had one coming in, and it was a low mileage one in great shape, with all the must have options I wanted, and that he was sure that it would top my list...
4 days later on Tuesday he called and said it was in, and that they hadn't gone over it yet, but if I wanted to I could come and see it. I went ahead and looked at it, the van certainly was everything I wanted, and his price was good as well...
They were going to go ahead with their detailing and some minor servicing and repairs, I had a few that I listed and most of them were already on the list of repairs to be made...
The deal was done, I was returning Thursday to pay and drive it away...
13 years later I am still driving the van...
I'm the only person standing between Richard Nixon and the White House."
~John F. Kennedy~
Economic: -9.13, Social: -7.28,
That was the coolest thing about Saturn.
No high pressure sales and no dickering over price, because they had already decided what the lowest acceptable price was, and that was the price they would quote you.
The earth is a multibillion-year-old sphere.
The Nazis killed millions of Jews.
On 9/11/01 a Boeing 757 (AA77) flew into the Pentagon.
AGCC is happening.
If you cannot accept these facts, I cannot fake an interest in any of your opinions.
Preach on brother :)
Thanks, Joe. Man, I wish I could write like you just did --- excellent! The convention is going to be very interesting and very exciting --- fireworks for sure!
thanks ajaradom!
Joe, just thank you for this excellent analysis, it is so
clearly thought out and written, it's a joy to read through it.
https://www.euronews.com/live
thanks mimi!
It will all mean nothing when Hillary gets indicted.
Just sit back and relax.
"Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho
evening tpe...
that kind of relies on the model that bernie will have our back and can do it all by himself assuming hillary is disqualified and he can win the general.
the thing is, a fully engaged, all-hands-on-deck movement is going to be absolutely essential to getting the agenda that bernie is promoting enacted. we will have to make the legislators phones ring off the hook, fill their physical and email boxes with mail, faxes and emails, fill their lobbies with advocates, fill the streets with activists and maybe even get on their lawns and demand they enact our legislation.
this is no time to relax if you want a better world.
Called the Congressman from my district in Brooklyn and told him
that after learning that he is supporting the establishment candidate that I was no longer supporting him,
Powerful.
Very good read. I would like to see a push to get new people in control of the state organizations, and for them to function much better.
It's simply too painful to acknowledge, even to ourselves that we've been taken. Once you give a charlatan power over you, you almost never get it back. Carl Sagan
evening chambord...
there is much to be done on that front. now that the supreme court is relaxing regulations on states that have a history of rigging the voting process against minorities, a lot of work is needed both in the states and perhaps in creating some federal regulations to rationalize the voting process in national elections (which may require a constitutional amendment since the constitution leaves most of this up to the states).
Thanks Joe and posters...
Best essay and thread I've read in a while; good work and appreciated. May I add a priority, super-delegates must be made to understand that the force is with Bernie and avoiding this voice has consequences?
evening smiley...
thanks for the kind words!
i've been seeing a campaign on facebook where there is a picture of various superdelegates supporting hillary from states that went for bernie with their name on it pointing out that they are going against the will of the people in their state.
that sort of thing could be helpful. i don't know if it has hit twitter or not (since i rarely pay attention to twitter) but it looks like it could be a way to bring some consequences to superdelegates.
Hey Joe! I swear, you have one of the clearest heads
and the keenest insight of anyone I know of, and to top it off you have the ability to express your ideas in a way that even those of us not quite as blessed can understand.
My biggest hope right now is that all those that are vowing not to vote for Hillary don't cave at the last minute and do so if she wins the nomination. I do believe we have in our hands at this moment the beginnings of a real movement if we just hold to our values and think long term. Win or lose, Bernie helped us get to this point and we just need to follow through.
Thanks for this great commentary.
All I want is the truth. Just give me some truth. John Lennon
evening bo...
geez, you guys are going to give me a swelled head. thank you.
it looks to me that hillary is helping us out in building the opposition to voting for her with her sleazy campaign tactics that are pissing off bernie supporters and giving pause to people on the fence.
the other thing that helps is the whole social media phenomenon. people are more inclined to follow trends like #bernieorbust if they have social attachments to others that are vocal about it. i think #bernieorbust could really sweep in lots of younger voters in a way that is not really anticipated by old school campaigners like the clintons.
so, we just need to keep putting the energy out there and build the movement, encouraging it to find its feet and its independence.
Fantastic essay
Thank you for your eloquent discussion of where we currently stand and what needs to be done. I made the decision in 2012, when I voted for Jill Stein, that I could no longer do the "lesser of two evils" bit in the election booth. It's interesting (and encouraging) to me to see how many people are now realizing that they can't, either, this time round. A case in point: my sister. When I first told her months ago that there was absolutely no way I could in good conscience vote for Clinton if Bernie did not gain the nomination, she was shocked, coming back to me with the usual, "But what about ____________? arguments. Now? She's joining me in either voting for Stein or writing in Bernie, if need be. Of course, I hope that decision remains theoretical and I can, instead, cast a vote for Bernie as our democratic nominee.
evening indrasnet...
thanks!
even though i've backslid a couple of times, i made the decision not to vote for the lesser evil when bill clinton ran for his second term. i think i voted for frank zappa that year.
Didn't vote for Clinton for his second term either
I voted for Ralph Nader.
no I think it's Bernie or bust...
Because if we can't make it with Bernie we can't wait another four years.The other alternative is to break it. So no vote for the big D and a vote against it to bring on disruption. Radical? Not as radical as exponential climate disruption coming soon to a location near you. BTW what is the point of driving an eco-friendly car, recycling, etc. when 'our' weapons or the consumers of our weapon systems spew toxic shit into the atmosphere. It's like a hummingbird trying to put out a forest fire with a drop of water. Such a beautiful image but futile. I think 'we' the people have gotten the message. Now is the time.
Stop Climate Change Silence - Start the Conversation
Hot Air Website, Twitter, Facebook
thank you for saying that!!!
gah!!!
Yes!
It's not 4 years.
If Hillary gets elected, I would count on her being there for 8. Then it's the Republican's turn, for sure. 4-8 more. How old will you be in 16 years? (rhetorical question) Yeah, now is the time.
"I’m a human being, first and foremost, and as such I’m for whoever and whatever benefits humanity as a whole.” —Malcolm X
I would *not* count on that
If she doesn't get impeached and removed in her first term, she will be primaried by the Non-Corporate Democrats and she will be Zerg-rushed by the Republicans.
Either way, four years max. Then...we'll see.
There is no justice. There can be no peace.
We can't have an incrementalist candidate
There's not enough time.
Beware the bullshit factories.
most excellent essay joe
Ive had multiple distractions this evening but have been trying to keep up here. I popped in to see this just after watching the livestream of the Bernie Forum in Harlem, that was great, y'all should try to watch it if you can. Bernie was more relaxed and really in his element and Belafonte was fab.
Really important and insightful posts and comments, thanks joe and all.
It really is Not Me, Us.
My philosophy regarding the Democratic Party is this:
"You break it, you buy it".
If Hillary gets the nom, the party broke it, and owns it. It's as simple as that.
When it comes burning down around their ears, I will point it out to them in exactly those terms.
Want an axe to break the ice.
Both Parties have already bought it, and broken it.
It's past time to rise up effectively. Bernie decided to make a fuss and so became the standard-bearer while reminding him it's US that must heed the rally and go beyond. I could be petty at TOP and tell them that's it's the mean, fraudulent folks there who drove me to do it. #Bernieorbust.
Hey! my dear friends or soon-to-be's, JtC could use the donations to keep this site functioning for those of us who can still see the life preserver or flotsam in the water.
If the DNC establishment insists on such a crappy candidta
Then it is totally on them and it won't be ok
Beware the bullshit factories.
Candidate not candidta
Beware the bullshit factories.
You can edit your comments here...
It's not Phuqued like TOP...
I'm the only person standing between Richard Nixon and the White House."
~John F. Kennedy~
Economic: -9.13, Social: -7.28,
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