Hillary on Bernie Voters: "It's Exciting to Be, In Effect, Protesting"
I have to go to work so this will be short.
If Hillary Clinton wants to be a better candidate that can actually rally the party in November, she really, really, really needs to do a better job of understanding why so many young people are voting for Bernie. And she really needs a better answer than this.
When asked yet again this morning on Morning Joe why she thinks so many young people are voting for Sanders, including young women, Hillary had this to say:
“Look, I was young once. It's exciting to be, in effect, protesting.”
Now I get it. It can be frustrating to be asked the same question over and over. But she keeps losing by HUGE margins among young voters and it’s been getting worse not better. Last night the exit poll I saw had her losing young voters 87-13.
Her response was dismissive, aloof and tone deaf. She is basically saying that the millions of people who are out there donating, phone banking, canvassing and voting are “just protesting.” They’re so young and naive. They didn’t understand that this nominating contest was over before it started. They don’t understand that due to the huge web of fundraising and wealthy donors that the Clintons essentially bankroll and own 33 of the state Democratic parties. They don’t understand that none of the super delegates are changing even if the pledged delegates go Bernie’s way. But you know, it’s cute and adorable they are out there protesting all of this.
But Madam Secretary, when you phrase it that way don’t you have to ask yourself the following:
”Why would millions of people feel the need to protest you?”
Here’s what I think Hillary has to do between now and November if she wants those young voters to come out and vote for her in November.
Get fucking real.
Literally.
First and foremost, young people have always been good bullshit detectors. But today’s young people aren’t relying on just the mainstream media and five second sound bites that they choose to show us. I don’t know why the exit polls aren’t even asking this but the BIGGEST gap isn’t age or race in this election. It’s the media gap. If you look at other social scientific studies about what groups tend to rely more or less on TV versus online news, they match up pretty well with the groups Clinton and Sanders are winning. Young people, of course, are the most likely of all to be unplugged from TV news AND savvy with social media and looking things up on their own.
And relying on social media means that young people don’t need CNN or MSNBC to play them the full video of when Clinton defended DOMA or spoke in favor of the Iraq War. They can see the full list of paid speeches and speaking fees. They know about your Super PACs. And we don’t believe for one second that she’s really committed to regulating companies that gave her millions of dollars.
You want our votes? Just be honest. Say yeah, the current system benefits me. I’ve played it really well. You don’t like the game but I’m a master at playing it. And no, the game isn’t changing. I know your’e mad but I’m the best you’re gonna get in such a fucked up political system which is no longer a democracy. Get over it. You have to raise this money to win. And NO Congress is ever going to touch the power of the 1%. And yeah, I’m for free trade deals in Panama cause it helps me and my rich friends stay rich and get richer.
That would at least be honest.
Then she could talk about making sure the right rich people are in charge so that we have oligarchs who are at least racially and gender inclusive. Because yes, an oligarchy run by inclusive people is better than one run by racist, homophobic xenophobes. And we would hold our noses and vote for it.
But young people can smell inauthentic, disingenuous rhetoric a mile away. If you won’t give us the revolution we need, at least give us the honesty we deserve.
I, for one, could get behind an honest campaign for a kinder, gentler oligarchy if it’s my only other choice come November. But not if you dismiss me as a “protest” voter and keep lying to my face by saying you’re the one with the real plan to rein in Wall Street.
I’m not a protester. I’m a voter. And I hope like hell we can vote establishment politicians the hell out and have a real choice in November
Comments
It's exciting to be voting for change because change is what
we desperately need. When 80+ percent are "protesting" something, you have a problem, considering how apathetic people are usually.
I've noticed that the more condescending they get, the more they try to pressure and shame, the more voters turn out for Bern. So keep up the tone, Hill, and snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.
I'm a 56-year-old, mostly white woman, and I approve this message.
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53 year old male
mostly pink, and I approve of this message.
"I’m a human being, first and foremost, and as such I’m for whoever and whatever benefits humanity as a whole.” —Malcolm X
Basicallly it sounds like she is calling us "radicals" in a way
that links Bernie's revolution to the 60s' hippies (and McGovern). I think it is a smart way, and not an unintentional way, for her to marginalize us as the extremist wing of the party. She is not a dumb cookie...just a power-hungry one.
What??!!
I'm a radical? Woohoo!! Finally!!
Marginalize = key word
Think that word - marginalize - really nails it. She can't get a handle on what's happening - it's not part of her experience. She has done nothing but strategize her every move for decades to create what she sees as her political viability, to become POTUS. Don't think she's ever gotten over her own RAGE that her lame, undisciplined husband got there first!
Think it's crucial in all we do to make it CLEAR we are not for sale, not going to support her, no matter what she does.
Yeah she basically tried to shut down all competition
before the primary even started. Really sad.
Bernie's right. If you can't win free and fair elections get a new line of work.
Bernie calls it "cowardly"
In the context of politicians like Scott Walker, but it applies to the DNC establishment as well. If you have to rig the primaries and control the media to win, instead of winning on your own ideas, then you should get out of politics and get another job, or in Hillary's case, just get your friends to give you a nice island to retire to.
Beware the bullshit factories.
Unfortunately for her
hippie punching has lost its effect over the last decade or so. A fundamental dissatisfaction with the Establishment is now mainstream. As others have written this would have been a smart strategy in the past but now it will backfire.
“To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize.” -Voltaire
Weird that people are taught McGovern was a radical
and that marginalizing voters to win is "smart" for attaining power. As a 56 year old from the San Francisco Bay Area I remember it quite differently but probably because I had young/activist parents fighting for civil, equal, and farm workers rights, and ending the war in Vietnam. Our family protested a lot and my parents voted for Shirley Chisholm, because she represented a radical change in US governing, and McGovern not enough.
I grew up in a Republican household
but I marched with the UFW when I was in high school. And going through my late father-in-law's papers after he died in 2010 (the man never threw away anything -- unfortunately he seems to have passed that habit to his eldest son, the current Mr. Scribe) I found an actual carbon copy of a letter he sent to the local congressman at the time requesting an immediate withdrawal from Vietnam and the Southeast Asia region from back in 1968 or thereabouts. (I definitely married well.
)
Agree, but I think it is McGovern losing big-time that she
is capitalizing on. She knows there are enough of us boomers who would remember that. In other words, she is saying that we don't want to repeat the same mistake again and lose this election to a Repub...it is more of the fear-based campaigning she had done since Bernie entered the race.
I'm not sure any Dem could have beaten Nixon
in 1972, to be honest, whereas Sanders has the best shot at beating Trump and probably Cruz as well.
McGovern and Eagleton
there's always talk of McGovern, who lost to an incumbent Republican, and not so much to Mondale, who ended up with fewer electoral votes than McGovern and who also lost to an incumbent Republican.
The message is "don't nominate anyone remotely left, meaning anti-war for example, and don't look at the more centrist candidate who lost worse...no, don't look there, just look at McGovern!"
It was going to be difficult for McGovern anyway but.....welll, remember how McCain picked Sarah Palin as his running mate? We all thought "this is his first decision and it's absolutely botched". For a different reason, but close enough, McGovern's pick of Eagleton turned toxic for the election once it was revealed that Senator Eagleton had gone through electroshock therapy for depression. For those who don't know or don't remember, Eagleton was forced off the ticket. The convention was long gone. McGovern simply appointed a new running mate, Sargent Shriver. (This was the moment "vetting" became a thing).
So it wasn't the anti-war, leftish leaning that did McGovern in. It was the appearance that he didn't know what he was doing. Of course the people who run the party seized on the "left" part and have dragged it out every 4 years, much like they do with Nader...and I don't doubt they'll do the same with Bernie, should Hills win the nomination and lose the election.
Heck, we've seen today that they're blaming Bernie for a lost judgeship race.
There was the other comment she reportedly made
Revolution doesn't come by sitting around and waiting for it. Ask your buddy John Lewis and the civil rights marchers, ask the patrons of the Stonewall Inn who got tired of living in the shadows, ask the DFHs who protested the Vietnam War, ask the ACT UP activists who didn't get the memo that your friends Ronnie and Nancy Reagan were so strong on the AIDS crisis. Sometimes you have to get loud, get messy, and even get arrested to wake up the American people.
You know, if you're not actively out there working for revolution and change, maybe you don't actually want it after all.
The thing is
she was as a youth a scary radical on the right side. I mean come on Berry Goldwater? But no one should hold her youthful politics against her because she evolved. I see no evolution from her Goldwater days. She's a mad bomber, who says 'We came, we saw we killed' and it's worth it.
She was a Republican, until she moved to Arkansas, and married Big Dog. She became a Democrat. Political expediency and ambition are her only motivation for anything she say's or does. Power is her predestined right. Equality, democracy and human and civil rights are just an impediment to her global agenda.
She belongs to the creepy cult of The Family. They believe violent oppressive world leaders including the likes of Hitler or Mao are justified to use any means to get and keep power and wealth. So all in all I don't think she can wrap her sick warped mind around a democratic political revolution movement that seeks to undermine the power of the rightful owners of the place from burning up the world for power and profit. Protestors are insurgents who need to stop interfering with the masters of the universe's god given power.
I'm a 63 yo, Hispanic woman, and
I approve this message, too, because I have been protesting most of my life!
"The “jumpers” reminded us that one day we will all face only one choice and that is how we will die, not how we will live." Chris Hedges on 9/11
But, But,
The Kossacks say that POCs are ALL for hillary. Only White men vote for Bernie. Are they wrong? /s
“Socialism never took root in America because the poor see themselves not as an exploited proletariat but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires.” - John Steinbeck
Well also there are only white men on this site, so we can't
tell you because white men is all we are in our BernBro echo chamber. /s
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"Bernie Sanders Turned Me Into a Dude."
Ima gonna make so much selling my memoir about this.
Stay on track. Stay in lane. Don't throw rocks.
Media is the issue
I'm sorry I don't have more up to date data, but look at the correlation of internet access and early primary results
If you don't have internet you don't have information about Bernie. MSM misleads and distorts because they want Hillary.
Bernie is fighting against the TPP (a corporate media intellectual property bonanza). Bernie is trying to get money out of politics (lot of lost revenue for MSM). Bernie rails against the banks, Big pharma, and insurance companies...all major advertisers. They are fighting against Bernie and for profits. If we manage to pull off Bernie's election we need to reinstate a Fairness Doctrine (lost in '87 under Reagan) to require reliable news and not editorials parading as news in order to have a broadcasting license.
“Until justice rolls down like water and righteousness like a mighty stream.”
That is a very interesting theory...
It correlates well with Bernie's wins in Colorado, Hawaii and Washington.
Democrats, we tried to warn you. How is that guilt and shame working out?
Good reason to be sure to talk with people you know don't
have Internet or use it much. My parents have no Internet and watch MSM but no cable. They are all in for Bernie, although surprised he's doing so well until I explain what's happening online. They love when we talk politics because I can give them that perspective.
Yes, I've tried to talk them into a computer and Internet access, but they want nothing to do with viruses and malware. At 80+, they're not doing too badly. They also read the local newspaper and note how it's gone mostly to sports, and donate to various environmental organizations who send them newsletters with a much more liberal perspective. And they have struggling children and grandchildren, so see the effects of policy every day and are not happy about it.
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Suggest a tablet, like an iPad or Android tablet
It's a good way to stay in touch with the world without the hassles of a desktop or laptop system. Install Google Chrome on it and load some good bookmarks, like The Intercept, Alternet, maybe Jacobin if they're really leaning socialist.
My mom-in-law (84) loves her iPad that she's had for about 6 years now; been trying to talk her into an upgrade (new ones are faster and lighter) but she's vacillating. The only issue she has is with the on-screen "virtual" keyboard, but we got her an external Bluetooth keyboard she can use when doing email and that works better for her and her arthritis. (She's having cataract surgery this afternoon BTW so good thoughts appreciated.)
That's not a bad idea, Android doesn't get viruses, right?
I'll see what I can do. They say the Internet is the work of the Devil, but I think they're kidding.
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Yes...but
There is so much more going on between the generations beyond information access. I am connected through social media to a number of savvy, active, fully liberal boomers who cannot break from her. These folks spend an inordinate amount of time posting against the death penalty, the NRA, fracking and pipelines, bigotry in all its forms, religious intrusions into politics...all of them same issues that are 8mportant to me. But then they make post after post against Bernie. They trivialize his plans, clearly taking him no more seriously than Hillary did toward the young Greenpeace activist.
The ridiculous irony about calling the support of Bernie a "protest" is that she and her supporters have things exactly backward. Mainstream Democrats have grown so comfortable and satisfied with defining themselves as a protest against the dumbest ideas of the Republicans that they in fact stand for nothing. They exist only as an opposition to (fill in the blank). The minor things she is for are milquetoast offerings in opposition to Bernie's more fully reasoned and fleshed out positions.
And this is the position of so many of my retired or nearly retired friends. They know what is right. They seek politically what is not uncomfortable. Revolutions are always uncomfortable.
I've argued that Sanders has demonstrated
support for key Democratic Party values better than many of those who've worn the "D" label. If I was still posting at TOP I'd do a diary with quotes from Bernie Sanders juxtaposed with quotes from FDR, and see if anyone can tell the difference.
Is he perfect? No -- I've got some questions about his actual stance on gun control (though I do agree that different standards need to apply to urban areas as opposed to rural where hunting may be the main source of meat for many families) and he may be a bit more pro-Israel than I'd prefer (though Clinton may be just as bad if not worse).
Exactly why younger voters
will never, ever vote for her. Does she really believe she can win without them? If she does, she's once again demonstrating that she's an idiot campaigner.
"The Media", as always, can go pound sand. They're beyond corrupt.
if she wants those young
But that's the problem - for her, that IS real. It's not an act, that is exactly how she really thinks.
51 yo male here...
And I am not 'protesting'. I am trying to make a better country for my millennial kids and my future grandkids. Hilary is turning into an angry, snarling beast. I bet she believes that she would be done with campaigning by now and would be spending time fundraising in swanky locations, hob-nobbing with the wealthy and the famous. She didn't think she would still have to be begging votes from the peasantry. Too bad.
Democrats, we tried to warn you. How is that guilt and shame working out?
And by "Begging,"
you mean insulting, right?
“Socialism never took root in America because the poor see themselves not as an exploited proletariat but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires.” - John Steinbeck
How rude of the peasantry
To actually try to make her earn the nomination.
Beware the bullshit factories.
"....a kinder, gentler oligarchy..." ???
REALLY?
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First Nations News
Yeah, he lost me there
I get what he's saying but the answer is No, the oligarchy must be stopped. This could mean president Trump or Cruz, if that is what it takes. Things may have to get even worse before they can get better, and it's sad because we can't really spare the time.
I might have thought that in 2010
But after seeing the way the GOP used especially state offices to gerrymander the hell out of everything and change the rules of the game, I'd be wary of giving them that power nationally for even four years.
Here in PA, the Dems got more votes for House by a 50-48 margin but the Republicans won 13 out of 18 seats. It's almost IMPOSSIBLE to get real change here now.
Now, if the election isn't close I would probably write someone else in.
Gerrymandering is an affront to democracy
I don't understand why not more people are upset about the archaic way we elect our representatives. It must have to do with the persistent illusion that our system is already the best, or at least good enough. In other words, tying into good old American exceptionalism.
Everything but popular vote is
All these little opportunities to rig it. And they never change because when people get enough power to maybe benefit from such trickery, or maybe owe something to someone who does, they suddenly get kinda quiet about changing it, because maybe next round they'll be the beneficiary.
Stay on track. Stay in lane. Don't throw rocks.
Point being, that's the only thing she COULD say to be believed
But, yeah. It is what she's peddling and it's not what I or what any Bernie supporters want in the slightest.
My money's still on Bernie pulling off the nomination short of the party pulling a nuclear option and self-destructing. It'll be close, but I think he does it.
'What we are left with is an agency mandated to ensure transparency and disclosure that is actually working to keep the public in the dark' - Ann M. Ravel, former FEC member
And if there's one thing young people LOOOVE...
it's condescension.
Everybody on your knees, Hillary's coming. We can all get our pats on the heads and go back to being good Democratic Loyalists who will never question our overlords.
/snark
I do not pretend I know what I do not know.
Last night on TYT
Last night on TYT Cenk Uygur not for the first time pointed out that young Bernie supporters are "high information voters" because they get information the corporate media are staying away from. For example, Hillary’s money laundering via state party organizations.
"We've done the impossible, and that makes us mighty."
Are you saying they are
doing their research? Please no - say is isn't so!
"The “jumpers” reminded us that one day we will all face only one choice and that is how we will die, not how we will live." Chris Hedges on 9/11
citizen!
What makes you think she thinks you "deserve" anything more than the occasional (and expensive) crumb?!!?
How could a politician have such lousy instincts for politics
- it's baffling. A lot of the art of politics lies in the ability to conduct a cost benefit analysis, often on the fly. In this case there is zero possible benefit coupled with lots of potential loss.
Her supporters claim that she is politically savvy - if that is the case she hides it very well.
“To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize.” -Voltaire
To be fair there's nothing her supporters love more...
than Hippy Punching.
So with that in mind, some music to piss off Hillary supporters.
[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wOaXTg3nAuY]
I do not pretend I know what I do not know.
True that
Someone ought to tell the Establishment Dems that the only people impressed by hippy punching are not the demo that is going to be deciding elections. Also much hippie bashing is now indistinguishable from millennial bashing which is really stupid politically.
“To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize.” -Voltaire
I'm ok with them learning this THROUGH LOSING THE NOMINATIO! n/t
'What we are left with is an agency mandated to ensure transparency and disclosure that is actually working to keep the public in the dark' - Ann M. Ravel, former FEC member
Best part is
that even if the lose the nomination they won't learn the lesson. They still think 2010 and 2014 were all about apathy when it was obvious the rejection of 'not quite as bad as the other team' was an active statement by the voters.
“To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize.” -Voltaire
Because she's old school
you know, when television media would "support" her bullshit narrative, and there was no other source of info to counter it.
20 years ago, she'd be kicking Sanders butt. Some people just never evolve quite like they should, though...
Agree with this 100%
Thing that baffles me though is her support among the first wave of major so called progressive bloggers. Surely they should understand how the ease of fact checking blows the old TV network model out of the water?
“To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize.” -Voltaire
I believe Jim Clyburn said pretty much the same thing as he gave
Clinton his endorsement.
I was young once too but I still believe in we, the people. Sigh.
This is a very important
This is a very important point. Regardless of what anyone likes/dislikes/loves/hates about her policies, all available evidence is that she personally is a lousy politician. Even if I was absolutely in her corner for everything she believes in, when it comes to looking at her as a candidate, all I see is Mike Dukakis on steroids. Tone deaf, uninspiring, and absolutely zero self-awareness of how she is perceived by anyone outside of her circle of sycophants.
Protesting is soooo much fun....
Hillary should come join us. We're having a "protest party" this summer in Philadelphia. It's a 1968 themed retro/throwback soiree, tear gas and riot gear included. Hillary is gonna LOVE it!
I hear
I hear thats where the boys are!!
Would that be
Obama boys or Bernie bros?
“To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize.” -Voltaire
Both - joined by the
Berniebabes! Wish I could be there!!!
"The “jumpers” reminded us that one day we will all face only one choice and that is how we will die, not how we will live." Chris Hedges on 9/11
But I thought
all Bernie supporters were Bros regardless of age, gender, or for that matter race.
“To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize.” -Voltaire
Surprising, isn't it?
Many surprises await out there!
"The “jumpers” reminded us that one day we will all face only one choice and that is how we will die, not how we will live." Chris Hedges on 9/11
THIS is one reason I cannot abide Hillary Clinton
Her campaign style is convincing people that she's owed the job and not because she's the best person for it, right? It's her turn, okay?! Voters are her prospective boss, her employer, if you will, and she answers to them. A campaign is like a job interview; you're supposed to be making the case that you're the right person for the job, and not come into the meeting room with a sense of smug entitlement and impatience. Every time Hillary is dismissive of another voter, she's giving the finger to a person she reports to; every time she gives some greasy, evasive answer to a straightforward question, she's giving the finger to the people to whom she is accountable. On the other hand... are these voting peasants corporate fat cats, or have donated millions to the Clinton Foundation? No? Well then, there's my answer!
"Voters are her prospective boss, her employer, if you will,"
This is the way it's supposed to be, but hasn't been since about ?1992?
She wants everyone to just get back in the box. Be good little toys.
Also, the way she talks down to young people also attempts to marginalize older, experienced voters by simply pretending they don't exist.
The way she talks down to people is infuriating
It's the hallmark of a very small person, as my mother would say.
And her supporters are modeling this - our county Dem convention
was just as smarmy to young people. It was horrid. Embarrassing, really.
'What we are left with is an agency mandated to ensure transparency and disclosure that is actually working to keep the public in the dark' - Ann M. Ravel, former FEC member
No,
It hasn't been since January, 1981.
“Socialism never took root in America because the poor see themselves not as an exploited proletariat but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires.” - John Steinbeck
Hillary
The smiley face on the jackboot.
Gëzuar!!
from a reasonably stable genius.
This is such an insulting statement - on so many levels
When the status quo is going to drastically change the lives of everyone, but especially young people who have more of their lives yet to live, voting for smart change that actually tries to address the looming problems is not "protesting" - its taking action.
And while I applaud and appreciate the many young people supporting Bernie, they are not the only supporters. So that stupid statement also ignores the thousands and thousands of middle age or older Sanders supporters. I'm 44 years old, I'm not "protesting" with my vote for Bernie. I'm casting the only vote in my lifetime where I can honestly say I'm voting for the candidate of my choice, not simply the least offensive option. If Hillary gets the nomination, at that point I might cast a protest vote, but voting for the candidate with integrity who talks realistically about the challenges facing the world is not "protesting" except in the mind of a millionaire who lives in her own little bubble of reality.
She's such a condescending ass. I'm not sure how she thinks that's going to work for her.
Oh c'mon. Quit protesting the fact Hillary called you out
for using your vote for protesting. /s
And
Watch you tone!
“Socialism never took root in America because the poor see themselves not as an exploited proletariat but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires.” - John Steinbeck
I, too, am
"I’m a human being, first and foremost, and as such I’m for whoever and whatever benefits humanity as a whole.” —Malcolm X
Wait..., WHAT?
She thinks Bernie is getting votes as a form of protest?!? Wasn't she listening when her generation (and mine - I'm 70) were protesting the Vietnam war, women were seeking abortion rights, equal pay (which we still didn't get)...?
Wow!!! It takes an inordinate amount of self-delusion to believe that!
I believe in an America where the separation of church and state is absolute ..., where no church or church school is granted any public funds or political preference. — President John F. Kennedy, Houston, TX, 12 September 1960
Her wealth insulates her
from the world the rest of us live in.
Hers
and Markos's.
“Socialism never took root in America because the poor see themselves not as an exploited proletariat but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires.” - John Steinbeck
Uh....no
She was a Goldwater Girl.
"I’m a human being, first and foremost, and as such I’m for whoever and whatever benefits humanity as a whole.” —Malcolm X
With all the feet she's been eating lately
...you'd think she'd be in a wheel chair. I swear, every time I hit BNR and/or cc99 I hear about some NEW crap she's said to piss people she needs to vote for her off.
She lost my vote ages and ages ago.
Love of power is a puppet string. - Makana, Fire is Ours
A safety tip for Hillary:
If you're going to shoot yourself in the foot take it out of your mouth first.
Solidarity
LOL! n/t
and be prepared to wipe it clean
like with a rag.
She belittles an entire group of voters
and then expects we will be strong-armed because: Republicans!!!! and SCOTUS!!!! I suspect if she and her crew managed to pull off her coronation and the obvious nothing-consequences of Year 1 happened, or a sell-out of all of what Sanders is pushing for, that there will be a leftist push for a one term President.
I still hope the FBI comes up with some goodies that takes her down.
Hey! my dear friends or soon-to-be's, JtC could use the donations to keep this site functioning for those of us who can still see the life preserver or flotsam in the water.
I have a sneaky suspicion the FBI will wait...
... either until after the DNC in Philly ... or until after election day ... to announce any of their findings. It all depends on who wins the nomination. If she wins, the Rethugs will howl like banshees and they'll start announcing early that they'll be seeking her impeachment before she takes the oath of office, as well as reopening the Benghazi investigations in connection with her private server.
Either way, it will still be a Media Circus which will suck up all the attention away from the election.
I believe in an America where the separation of church and state is absolute ..., where no church or church school is granted any public funds or political preference. — President John F. Kennedy, Houston, TX, 12 September 1960
(No subject)
I believe in an America where the separation of church and state is absolute ..., where no church or church school is granted any public funds or political preference. — President John F. Kennedy, Houston, TX, 12 September 1960
FBI help not likely
I don't think the FBI will be riding to the rescue unless they stumbled into some evidence of blatant corruption. At the highest levels of government the folks usually get a pass with mishandling classified info; even for a regular person, doing the same act would get a you fired and their security clearance revoked for life; the only exception is if the matter got into the press somehow (e.g., Wen Ho Lee) or especially if you embarrassed the government.
The Media Gap
That is an interesting point. I'm 54, and I get really tired of people claiming that all her negatives are due to the right wing noise campaign. I'm in tech and I don't think I've watched TV news since the early 1990s, yet I still managed to learn all kinds of unpleasant truths about the Clintons through alternate media. Watching those videos of her saying one thing and then another is pretty compelling.
Another variant of the media gap is that tweet on Nancy Reagan and AIDS a few weeks back. The only explanation I can come up with for that gaffe is she thought that a hash tag was like a "channel" or something, so the only people reading it would be the Reagan Democrats she was targeting with a "stateswomanly" tribute to Nancy. The fact that everyone is watching the channel caught her completely by surprise.
We can’t save the world by playing by the rules, because the rules have to be changed.
- Greta Thunberg
The closer you look at her,
the more obvious it is that she provides a lot of ammo for that right-wing smear machine: her own words and her own actions. Yeah, the Republicans are flinging shit at her, but she keeps giving them giant whisks. (My apologies for the nasty visual!)
The Clintons are adapated to a different age of politics
Back then you COULD target just this audience and then just that audience. Now you can't. You're always speaking to EVERYBODY all the time.
Can't take a break
Clinton probably finds campaigning a lot more tiring now that she can't continuously talk out of both sides of her mouth.
I too am 54, and the really horrifying part
of her using the old RWNJ line is that sometimes, those old supposed "RWNJ" arguments have actual merit and are not merely a smear. And there are so many of them. I can't help but credit her and Bill for helping also to create the Tea Party. When people are so damned pissed off and don't know who to blame it on, they become ripe for the Faux propaganda machine. And when we can't even make a substantive argument that they are WRONG to be making their attacks, that the attacks actually have substance but we're just supposed to ignore them because they come from the Right, we have all lost the battle.
I am still stunned that she is playing this as stupidly as she is. I know, they triangulate, so there has to be a point to this, but for the life of me, the ONLY point I keep coming back to is she does not want to win. Sounds nutty, and probably is, but my God how can she be this tone deaf, repeatedly? You know that campaign has to have some young people who try to point this out, maybe she just ignores them too? I suppose, sure as hell looks that way.
Only a fool lets someone else tell him who his enemy is. Assata Shakur
Tone deaf/condescending attitude=donation to Bernie
I haven't donated yet this week, so thanks for the reminder, Hillary.
You're such a bad (this word comprises sooo many things!) candidate that I wouldn't vote for you in a million years. I've been scared by everyone from Thom Hartmann to friends saying we have to vote for her because of the SC/Drumpf is evil meme, but I've turned the corner on that one. I will write Bernie in as a "protest vote" if the will of the people isn't honored. (Gawd I hope that doesn't happen!)
Great post, GreyWolf359!
It is so nice to come over here
And read truth after getting myself soiled over at Great Orange Hillary. I go back there all the way to 2004, and am a vetern of the 2008 pie fights. They were just that, pie fights. Now the hillbots are out for blood, and Kos is their leader. Shame what becoming comfortable financially will do to a person.
“Socialism never took root in America because the poor see themselves not as an exploited proletariat but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires.” - John Steinbeck
Can you take the Goldwater out of the girl?
Odd that HRC didn't relate how well she understands the millenials: after all when she was their age she was(?) a Goldwater Girl.
Ah the sweet sound of Clinton patting the kids on their heads
Could she possibly be any more condescending?
Never be deceived that the rich will allow you to vote away their wealth.-Lucy Parsons
Condescending
Condescending bullshit way to view voters from her own party:
who are the future of "her" party. Money makes some people so damn stupid. She thinks that the democratic party can win without younger voters (who are actually more often high-information voters). The democratic establishment will shortly find out that there is no future in this way of thinking.
I may not be all that young, but I damn sure wouldn't vote for a corporate-owned democrat like HRC. I already have to fight voter suppression efforts in Arizona just to be able to frigging vote, and many people before me worked and fought for the right to vote for all, so why the hell would I waste something as valuable as a vote on someone who represents the worst part of our corrupt system. (Cool, I can say that without getting told to go stand in the corner for a"timeout").
and here's why you can say this at c99p
the management at you know where has decided to follow a strategy, rather than have it as a place to discuss stuff. This also explains why that front page is full of Republicans. Now it can be argued pretty easily that the Repub thing doesn't work. Losses in 2010 through 2014 should have told them that it was a stupid idea but I guess the owner thinks it worked in 2008 so he can ignore how it's done nothing since. He misses the point, of course, that the Repubs were the "ins" in 2008 and, Presidentially speaking, aren't any more.
But anyway, he's big on what he thinks is strategy and he thinks he knows something, especially now that he gets to act like a big shot. But coming to a conclusion of the best way forward and insisting that everyone fall into line creates a dead end. There is nowhere to go at that point.
When a group, small or large, gets together to discuss anything there is a living consensus that's created. Opinions can change that consensus if they're expressed clearly. I picture it (sometimes) as a sphere with all of those opinions, a sphere that's alive. Another place, which frowns on introducing certain ideas that run counter to that of management's can become a mere dot or flat line.
It's a well known drag, as a certain mystic once said.
I've got a strange idea for an open thread....to test this hypothesis here. But I'm pretty sure the reason we feel comfortable here is because "idea" is king.
Great post, Noble and Learned Shah
One surprise I always had was how lame his writing was. It seems as though he lucked into doing something at the right time and place. The rest of the growth happened by far more talented, even elegant writing. But never his.
The whole idea about strategy - I presume it involves enriching his own pockets in a Hillarian administration. Fat chance there, buckos. Breaking into that insular and often clueless group of arrogant know it nones, might be the end goal of your strategy, however, you have less than a snowball's chance of succeeding. One of the aides may have even hinted at something in a passing conversation, one before you issued your ridiculous Ides edict. All that accomplished was to push away some of the best free and talented writers you managed to gather.
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