Open Thread - Wed. March 30, 2016 - Self-Censorship Edition

The worst evil is - and that's the product of censorship - is the self-censorship, because that twists spines, that destroys my character because I have to think something else and say something else, I have to always control myself. - Milos Forman

Recently I got into a discussion with one of the front pagers over at TOP about the subject of censorship. He vigorously contended that Markos' March 15th edict was not censorship while I posited that it was, indeed, a form of censorship. What I was contending in my discussion with said front pager was that something that I previously could post prior to March 15th was now being censored under the threat of being put into a time out or even banned.

self-cen·sor·ship

noun: self-censorship

the exercising of control over what one says and does, especially to avoid castigation.
"a climate of self-censorship, fear, and hypocrisy"

Further, what was even more insidious was that the edict was causing me and many others to operate under self- censorship in order to maintain self preservation. It becomes a compromise of values that eventually eats away at your soul.

I saw that publishing all over the world was deeply constrained by self-censorship, economics and political censorship, while the military-industrial complex was growing at a tremendous rate, and the amount of information that it was collecting about all of us vastly exceeded the public imagination. - Julian Assange

Since the Edward Snowden revelations about the NSA spying on every one of us, many people have become very concerned about what they say on the phone or write on line. This has translated into more than the normal self-censorship. And it is not just content, but it comes down to certain key words. The NSA has an extensive list of key words that they use to flag someone as a potential terrorist. Many of the words are obvious, but many are mundane words that nearly everyone uses at sometime or another.

And now an artist has created a typeface that recognizes certain key words that the spooks at the NSA are watching for and automatically blacks them out as you write. It is called a self-censoring font.

That list, included in the 2011 Analysts Desktop Binder, includes obvious red flags like Al-Qaeda, North Korea, and suicide bomber. But seemingly banal words like help, pork, and snow are on there, too.

Seen, a downloadable font from designer Emil Kozole, brilliantly illustrates these linguistic triggers by redacting these so-called spook words. Type something as innocent as “facility” or “San Diego” and before your cursor even jumps a space ahead, the word is hidden behind a black strike-through. It’s disturbing, frustrating, and alarming, and that’s the point.

Self-censorship is something we all practice regularly even though we may not always realize it at the time. We all censor ourselves to a certain degree in order to get along with others. It can be called manners or consideration. In our efforts to get along and to not offend, humans often will keep their thoughts and opinions to themselves rather than rock the boat.

In regard to discussion of the Edward Snowden revelations, a Pew Research study was conducted in 2014 showing that even in on line social media most people still censor themselves if they believe that their own opinion is unpopular with their friends and contacts.

It was widely believed that websites such as Facebook and Twitter would spawn a new age of political discourse by giving people the courage to freely express their opinions on issues even when their views were not shared by the majority.

Well, guess what? A new study, just published today by Pew Research Center, says it didn’t happen.

It turns out people are actually less likely to share their opinions on social media than they are in face-to-face settings such as family dinners and water-cooler conversations with colleagues.

And if people think their social media friends and followers disagree with their view, they are less likely to discuss the issue at all — not in cyberspace or in the physical presence of other humans.

Further, as an article in Guardian about the Pew Research report quoted one of its authors who used the term "spiral of silence" to describe the results of the study.

“It has been well documented since before the internet that a “spiral of silence” descends when people think their opinions are in the minority when compared to those around them – they don’t want to speak out if they think they hold unpopular views,” said Prof Keith Hampton, one of the report’s co-authors.

“This kind of self-censoring can mean that important information is never shared. Some had hoped that social media might provide new outlets that encourage more discussion and the exchange of a wider range of opinions. But we see the opposite – a spiral of silence exists online, too.”

Even more disconcerting is that recent study by PEN America has shown that writers, journalists, and even fiction writers have succumbed to self-censorship due to fears of being targeted by the NSA's dragnet. According to the report, Chilling Effects: NSA Surveillance Drives US Writers to Self-Censor, one out of six writers has avoided writing or speaking on a topic that they believed would subject them to surveillance and another one out of six writers has seriously considered doing so.

Recent disclosures of the NSA's widespread dragnet program coupled with its frequent targeting of journalists are having a 'chilling effect' on American writers, stifling their freedom of expression at great detriment to society, says a new report Chilling Effects: NSA Surveillance Drives U.S. Writers to Self Censor.

Published Tuesday by the group PEN America—an organization of writers dedicated to advancing literature and promoting free speech for writers around the world—surveyed 520 American writers and found they are "not only overwhelmingly worried about government surveillance, but are engaging in self-censorship as a result."

The question becomes how much, if any, self-censorship is tolerable and what consequences are we willing to bear as a result. Your thoughts on this subject or anything else you may want to comment on are welcome in this Open Thread.

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Miep's picture

Can get you shunned. Who wants to be shunned?

Good piece, thanks.

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Stay on track. Stay in lane. Don't throw rocks.

gulfgal98's picture

As human beings, we are naturally social animals. Being shunned, whether it is by friends, family, co-workers, or even on line does affect most people. That is why the Pew Research Study was so fascinating.

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Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?

“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy

Miep's picture

It's an important subject and runs deep. It leads to a reluctance to question accepted societal values. It takes a lot of strength to stand against the majority, and is often a lonely place.

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Stay on track. Stay in lane. Don't throw rocks.

So being shunned could be, in effect, a death sentence. Not that long ago in evolutionary terms.

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riverlover's picture

is due to frustration with having to consider every word because of fear of banishment. So that has exploded over here. We will get over it.

I announced my exit in MOT this morning. Solidarity.

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Hey! my dear friends or soon-to-be's, JtC could use the donations to keep this site functioning for those of us who can still see the life preserver or flotsam in the water.

gulfgal98's picture

of having to consider every word does eventually wear you out. Good morning riverlover.

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Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?

“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy

FreakFlagFly's picture

I got in MOT a few days ago. I got a public warning from one of the group admin to be careful what I say and I'd better not start any trouble, based on my user name alone (Antitheist) - I think you sided with the admin but you saw it happen, no matter which side you took.

http://www.dailykos.com/comments/1506655/60570915

The censorship issue became very real for me that day. I haven't been as mad/embarrassed by an intentional public humiliation in many many moon. I just checked and it looks like they rescinded my 1 week TO after less than a day.. Too little, too late, too bad.

Good to see you here

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hester's picture

It's been over a month since I left there and I did it based on exactly what you wrote. I wasn't banned, no Time out. I made a comment in a Marcos diary about how we weren't supposed to ask for example why many people of color were voting for $hillary while simultaneously having HRC crammed down our throats. This person responded by saying maybe I belonged elsewhere, why was I there (I'd been there 12+ years) so I left. That's all it took.

If I cannot say what I want (within reason) why would I stay?

This is also true in life. I find especially in my close relationships both w family and friends if I have to stifle myself, then a kind of distancing takes place and the relationship suffers .... often badly. Just my 2.

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Don't believe everything you think.

gulfgal98's picture

and good morning. Self censorship is something that affects me very deeply due to where I live and so many of my family members being very conservative. I often feel like I cannot have an open opinion about these things. And it does affect my relationships.

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Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?

“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy

kharma's picture

what Kos did, regardless of how he feels about it, is censorship. As you rightly noted, self-censhorship leads to nothing new. No progress. No new ideas. No thoughtful disagreements. Just head nodding of nothingness.

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There is nothing which I dread so much as a division of the republic into two great parties.. This...is to be dreaded as the greatest political evil under our Constitution.--John Adams

gulfgal98's picture

Thank you kharma.

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Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?

“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy

Unabashed Liberal's picture

self-censhorship leads to nothing new. No progress. No new ideas. No thoughtful disagreements. Just head nodding of nothingness.

Well put!

On the positive side, (IMHO) blogging 'on issues' which can be substantiated, should require little or no self-censorship; compared to expressing opinions based upon gut instincts, or personal preferences.

Been a member at DKos for almost twelve years; and for the most part, until the past year or so, this held true over there--if one stuck to policy. Very sad what's happened there, lately.

(Music City) Mollie, C99P & DKos
elinkarlsson@WordPress


"If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went."--Will Rogers

"To Thine Own Self Be True, And It Must Follow, As The Night The Day, Thou Canst Not Then Be False To Any Man."--William Shakespeare

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Everyone thinks they have the best dog, and none of them are wrong.

I am a raging idiot lately.

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Alison Wunderland's picture

It was all very predictable. My Dad wrote about it in The Automated State in 1967.

What's even more insidious is self-censorship in everyday life; appearance; mode of dress; places to be; people to avoid.

What a vile world we've managed to produce.

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gulfgal98's picture

In 1967, no less. Your Dad was a visionary.

I think we have become more conforming than ever. We just do not know it.

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Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?

“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy

TheOtherMaven's picture

Somehow the vision was lost by the middle of the next decade, and has stayed lost until very recently.

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There is no justice. There can be no peace.

detroitmechworks's picture

Who knew that my fictional tastes were indicative of danger to the PTB.

Damn, I'm tempted to get that font and write a story including as many diverse elements as I can to try to score as High as possible on the NSA threat rating without actually saying anything dangerous.

Kinda like How Zappa Got "Guitar" to have an "Explicit Lyrics" sticker slapped on it, when it was 100% instrumentals.

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I do not pretend I know what I do not know.

gulfgal98's picture

is open sourced. Click on the link for the word, Seen. It is fascinating.

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Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?

“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy

Bollox Ref's picture

I assume the front-pager was self-censoring/toeing the party line.

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Gëzuar!!
from a reasonably stable genius.

gulfgal98's picture

but he announced he was taking a vacation shortly after the edict came down. LOL

Thank you.

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Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?

“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy

Martha Pearce-Smith's picture

"It turns out people are actually less likely to share their opinions on social media than they are in face-to-face settings such as family dinners and water-cooler conversations with colleagues."

I think many are more concerned about corporate surveillance and getting fired for holding an opinion in opposition to that of their boss/company than they are about the government hauling them away to Gitmo.

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gulfgal98's picture

but I bristle at the idea that businesses and other places of employment have the right to ask you for your passwords to social media or other things that have no bearing upon the job for which you are applying or have been hired.

I have told this story here before. A year and a half after I retired (over 31 years in the same office), my old office called me and asked if I could come back as a temporary part time worker to help them out. I was only too happy to do so. But before they could bring me back, I had to undergo a background check. This was the same office where I had worked for over 31 years and had an impeccable record.

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Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?

“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy

Martha Pearce-Smith's picture

And I was just appalled.

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mileser's picture

Agreed. Never had to do it and would never do it. What I do in my private life is my business and not a company's. What I think has nothing to do with a company.

Now what I do on company time and with company property. Fine. I get that.

I also disagree with the "drug testing" craze that only makes money for drug testing companies. The only time a drug test should be allowable is for reasonable cause while on the job. Like some extreme behavior that could Reasonably associated with drugs. However, depending on the behavior, the person may need to have an ambulance called because medical conditions can seem to be drug related.

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-9.75, -8.21

gulfgal98's picture

I think a big part of remaining a healthy and sane person is to limit negativity in your life. I actually had to unfriend someone who was one of my closest friends in HS because I came to realize that she made me feel inferior when I was around her. I am of the age that I simply do not want negativity and am doing what I can to keep it at a minimum.

I would venture to say you are a very sane person yourself. Smile

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Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?

“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy

mileser's picture

on FB, have created lists for who can see what. So, for a given topic, I will have a chosen audience. One list I have is called "Sanepeople." These are those whom I know can handle anything I share or say because of their open minds - even if sometimes they don't agree, they are alright with disagreement. Some of these people I've never actually met - some even as far away as Australia.

I also very much restrict the friends I have. Some people, I just don't want to see what they have to say. Now a few I do want to be FB friends of, but I unfollow them so I don't have to see everything they share or say. I've tried to learn to control my social media environment so that I don't have to control myself too much - and I try to maintain strict privacy controls.

I've left DailyKos because it has become a negative environment. I can't handle that kind of atmosphere and so I have to make sure I leave those environments for my own sanity just like I don't spend time around negative people in my real life. Some people can do well in those environments, but I can't and I know that because I do have mental health issues and I don't want to spiral down into a deep depression.

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-9.75, -8.21

Gerrit's picture

Do we want to? Sorry, I can't help myself. Your comment just sparked that idea and I had to get it out of me :=) It's stupid, but hey. I know I'm 50% full of shite; I just never know which half I'm dealing with! Have a great day, eh.

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Resilience: practical action to improve things we can control.
3D+: developing language for postmodern spirituality.

Lady Libertine's picture

btw...

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gulfgal98's picture

Now we see guilt by association. (shakes head)

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Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?

“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy

Lady Libertine's picture

one more... not sure if this will show up right

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gulfgal98's picture

I just re-tweeted Snowden. Really Obama? You said that with a straight face?

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Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?

“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy

pfiore8's picture

thanks Lady Lib

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“There are moments which are not calculable, and cannot be assessed in words; they live on in the solution of memory… ”
― Lawrence Durrell, "Justine"

Raggedy Ann's picture

I almost fell out of my chair! I love Ed Snowden. Right back at ya, POTUS!

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"The “jumpers” reminded us that one day we will all face only one choice and that is how we will die, not how we will live." Chris Hedges on 9/11

Snowden and Manning should be free. Or maybe we could have them run for President or give them a pension like Petraeus.

Obama particularly pisses me off, even more than "Bubba", because he lied, used, manipulated and with malice aforethought deliberately screwed over his supporters. It is a wonder any of the young people that voted for Obama are still engaged in the political process. Even the Clintons can't best the hypocrisy and double standard that is Obama's legacy.

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"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon

Alison Wunderland's picture

Good piece. Chilling in it's broader implications (as I outlined in my comment above.) Thank you for carrying the torch.

AB went on a tear last night. An opinion piece (comment) followed by lots of anecdotal ramblings.

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gulfgal98's picture

Keep commenting. You are rapidly becoming one of my favorite commenters here. Plus, you wear your sunglasses at night too! Wink

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Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?

“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy

pfiore8's picture

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“There are moments which are not calculable, and cannot be assessed in words; they live on in the solution of memory… ”
― Lawrence Durrell, "Justine"

gulfgal98's picture

Dirol

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Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?

“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy

Alison Wunderland's picture

But not now, I'm working.

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PhilJD's picture

No progress. No new ideas. No thoughtful disagreements. Just head nodding of nothingness.

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Hillary Clinton 2016: I'm a proud progmoderate!

BTW, after much practice (working as a federal civil servant, including under Ray-gone and GWB), can testify that self-censorship eats deep into consciousness. Almost constantly, the energy drain of keeping a sort of internal observer in the brain, watching every word to evaluate its possible negative impact or openings offered to any number of possible hostile observers. Useful skill for a spokesperson, but when every word offstage also has to be subjected to the same level of pre-scrutiny, it is not only tiring; it forms a collection of barriers between people to prevent genuine connection and preclude group consciousness-raising, and action.

(Still, every now and then, maybe some truth "pops out" despite all, often to the relief of everybody.)

Can't say enough in praise of your work.

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Euterpe2

Unabashed Liberal's picture

another (former/retired) federal civil servant on board!

I was a 'pup' during the Carter Administration, but have to say that I was lucky not to be in an environment that stilted open discourse. (I worked in both military and civilian agencies/departments.)

Anyhoo, nice to meet you. Been here since the inception, and only know of one other Civil Service retiree. So, please, don't be a stranger!

Wink

(Music City) Mollie
elin karlsson @ WordPress


"Every time I lose a dog, he takes a piece of my heart. Every new dog gifts me with a piece of his. Someday, my heart will be total dog, and maybe then I will be just as generous, loving, and forgiving."--Author Unknown
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Everyone thinks they have the best dog, and none of them are wrong.

gulfgal98's picture

And thank you for your compliment too. For five very long years, I worked under a supervisor who was so rigid in his own ideas that he once told me to never speak in a staff meeting unless asked and to never volunteer information. He was almost as rigid with everyone else in our division but had singled me out because I was the longest time employee and according to him, knew too much. Those five years were a living hell of self censorship over everything. I cannot imagine what it is like all the time.

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Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?

“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy

stevej's picture

by Markos several of the front pagers commented about how good their working conditions and benefits are. Now, fair play to Kos for treating his employees well, I really do mean that and I would love for his practices to become the industry standard but it does present a problem. His employees know that they will not be able to match there current standard of living by working somewhere else so they are much more likely to self censor than would be the case normally.

This is not about hero and villains and I have no answers for this particular set of circumstances - employees being well treated - a big yay but it does lead to incentivised group think.

I was surprised that no one addressed this in the comments to that particular post as it would have made for an interesting discussion.

Excellent post btw GG - this is really important stuff.

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“To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize.” -Voltaire

Martha Pearce-Smith's picture

"I was surprised that no one addressed this in the comments to that particular post as it would have made for an interesting discussion."

I think it was a PRIME example of self-censorship...

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jiordan's picture

I've had a job where it I let my soul rot to pay my bills...no surprise to me that no one brought it up.

Capitalism is a self-censoring system for all those not at the very top of the food chain.

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stevej's picture

I meant the normal users not the front pagers - agree that they wouldn't touch the subject with a ten foot pole precisely for the reason stated.

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“To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize.” -Voltaire

The employees HAD TO GROVEL. EPIC! For the gd life of me I cannot even imagine my employer posting about my company on a Blog and I would have to chip in and say how awesome it was like they are really going to post publicly oh yeah it sucks here and Marcos is a republican mother fucker asshole and a liar. I heard meteor further humiliated his already human humiliated self and said they get better vacation than people in Europe people in Europe get 6 weeks do you really believe that greedy mother with a few employees can give more than 6 weeks off. What a God damn piece of shit he really is.

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Alison Wunderland's picture

that spreads the butter on the bread.

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jiordan's picture

Although we as a society would likely be better off it happened more frequently.

AB: I know you said your registration in PA got "mysteriously" switched. Did you happen to catch this article: https://anonymousinvestigationsblog.wordpress.com/2016/03/26/anonymous-r...? In the comments, it appears this is happening EVERYWHERE that still has an upcoming primary...

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gulfgal98's picture

and it is happening far too often.

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Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?

“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy

Alison Wunderland's picture

Sorry. I had to break off and mentor an Empire:Total War friend.

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Martha Pearce-Smith's picture

but I think it deserves wider distribution.... Arizona wants a Re-Vote....

The money quote is:


"The corruption has become so established that it became comfortable. So comfortable that it got lazy. So lazy that you got caught!"

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gulfgal98's picture

it will never happen. Ms.Grin has posted some interesting videos on this issue too.

Edit to add, my home county in Florida many years ago had a completely botched election that affected the outcome of local races. The then supervisor of elections was removed by the governor and replaced with a temporary supervisor. But we did not get to re-vote even though the election was so badly botched that it was impossible to determine the real winners. Out of all that ugliness, some good did come. A man who had run for county commission at that time decided to do something about it and took it upon himself to learn everything he could about running efficient and fair elections. Then he ran for supervisor of elections and every election since that time has been impeccable and he became nationally known as an expert on elections.

There is very little voter fraud, but there seems to be a lot of election fraud in this country.

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Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?

“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy

stevej's picture

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“To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize.” -Voltaire

gulfgal98's picture

Your comment poses an interesting dilemma, one which I experienced in my own career as a local government employee. You self censor and accommodate your employer to a certain extent because you value your job and the income stream it provides. I think a similar thing is happening in journalism, in particular because most newspapers are now owned by large corporations and therefore, there is less latitude for unbiased reporting.

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Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?

“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy

stevej's picture

thing where we tend to work towards our editor's preferences not out of fear of losing our job but simply because we don't like our work changed beyond recognition. This one operates at an almost subconscious level. (From my limited experience in local newsrooms)

The whole self censorship argument is a fascinating one and teasing out the pragmatic decisions from the conditional responses isn't always easy.

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“To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize.” -Voltaire

gulfgal98's picture

of self censorship would be a fascinating subject. When is a certain threshold crossed and what effect does it have on people as a scientific study. I am not a psychologist so I can only guess.

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Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?

“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy

Raggedy Ann's picture

when I make my morning comment. Today I referenced tone and the banning. When I catch myself asking - should I write that? - I realize I'm self-censoring. I don't want to do that, so if I get banned for a comment - so be it.
Who's afraid of Mr. Kos?
Why should I be afraid of Mr. Kos?
What are the consequences if I piss off Mr. Kos?
Do I care if I get banned from the site owned by Mr. Kos?
Fuck Mr. Kos.

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"The “jumpers” reminded us that one day we will all face only one choice and that is how we will die, not how we will live." Chris Hedges on 9/11

gulfgal98's picture

to get banned. Leave on your own terms, Raggedy Ann. Then you have the control, not them.

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Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?

“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy

Raggedy Ann's picture

I'm not really all that nice, lol! Actually, I guess I am sorta nice. Wink You are correct, tho - I will leave on my own terms. I really only support the BNR and OPOL and now no OPOL. I do rec a diary here and there (Chaoslillith works very hard, as does TomP, and the rest!), but can hardly stand to be there. It's just so much more pleasant here with such wonderful people.
I will maintain my control, gg, as long as humanly possible! Wink Smile

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"The “jumpers” reminded us that one day we will all face only one choice and that is how we will die, not how we will live." Chris Hedges on 9/11

Gerrit's picture

time. Grieve it, leave it, live here. Continuing a presence there just enables them. I'll shut up now. Best to Cuz R.Andy.

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Gerrit's picture

first through creating a public chill that creates automatic self-censorship, as the NSA does. Then through half-assed direct threats, as Moulitsas did. And then it becomes open and direct, as we know form all totalitarian states.

Phase one: self-censcorship: check

Phase two: half-assed threats: check

Phase three: tomorrow

We've got work to do. Today.

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I cannot believe the amount of daily dose Bernie supporters who humiliate themselves and crawl back to DDailykos to read the Republican War mongering dribble that King Markos and Clinton supporters spew over there. It is absolutely fueled up that any Bernie supporter would support a site that is owned by a former Republican. That scumbag Marcos when he was poor he became a Democrat and now that he is a 1 percenter he is back to being a scumbag Clinton supporting Republican douchebag. Stop humiliating yourselves and supporting this assholes support for Hillary Clinton.

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Gerrit's picture

here or at Liepar's new site when he gets it going. Grieve fast, move on, work on tomorrow. Progressives have no business spending precious life energy at a corporatist, conservadem site. Scan it if you must to inform yourself aborut consevadem, just like I scan Redstate to check in on the nutbars latest crazy. Do not get stuck there: work here on c99.

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Resilience: practical action to improve things we can control.
3D+: developing language for postmodern spirituality.

http://bernienewsroundup.com/
It's been there forever, but I guess many don't realize this?

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Gerrit's picture

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Resilience: practical action to improve things we can control.
3D+: developing language for postmodern spirituality.

I cannot believe the amount of daily dose Bernie supporters who humiliate themselves and crawl back to DDailykos to read the Republican War mongering dribble that King Markos and Clinton supporters spew over there. It is absolutely fueled up that any Bernie supporter would support a site that is owned by a former Republican. That scumbag Marcos when he was poor he became a Democrat and now that he is a 1 percenter he is back to being a scumbag Clinton supporting Republican douchebag. Stop humiliating yourselves and supporting this assholes support for Hillary Clinton.

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Some people can use him like he uses them. Letting Markos and dailykos get under your skin gives them way too much credit and power. They are a fully owned subsidiary of the Democratic Party.

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"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon

I don't buy that. I used to. Now I don't. That's coming from a person that knows how to sock them. But I stopped. You can't successfully boycott a shit product and then you keep buying it to put a profit in their pocket. You can't lead a revolution and then crawl around humiliated and degraded at the very building where the revolution is being killed. You gotta move forward and take the revolution someplace new. The excuses for going back there are for meta, fights, or narcissism and are for your own ego by you I don't mean you specifically I'm just throwing that word around.

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to make any difference. People have been leaving, boycotting and predicting the doom of daily kos for years. You can use him like he uses you, and he can't make you crawl unless you let him. People can control and even kill your body, but they can never control and kill your mind and spirit unless you let them. That could be hokum to enforce coping skills, but it works for me.

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"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon

Just sayin......

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"Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho

Gerrit's picture

Choosing to ignore top reduces the opportunity cost of going there. Every second spent there means less time/energy/resources to make positive progress for progressivism here and everywhere else. There's only so much time and energy in 24 hours; we could use it constructively to work on activism: it's about us, not top. What do you think?

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Resilience: practical action to improve things we can control.
3D+: developing language for postmodern spirituality.

It's a new world order though. Bernie supporters are the majority in the world of social media. We should not support a blog that despises Bernie since day one. It's crazy. And it's time to stop. All that energy and all those clicks belong here.

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gulfgal98's picture

I know you are upset with the other site, but can you take it down a notch? As some back ground, C99P is not the anti kos. We have been in existence for some time and were founded over a year ago in this present location. and met for some time prior. Our intent here is to focus mainly on the big picture issues from a left perspective. Thanks! Smile

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Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?

“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy

Top and Mm bring out the worst in me.

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Alison Wunderland's picture

Welcome to the Big Blue

Internet. Glad to have you aboard.

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Miep's picture

Blog moderation here is super sensitive and sophisticated. The people running this joint really aren't looking for trouble with people, there is not that culture of paranoia here.

I appreciate your passion for Sanders. But instead of concerning ourselves with what other people are doing (or aren't doing) we should be focusing on doing stuff ourselves. Really, that's the best way to inspire people, action.

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Stay on track. Stay in lane. Don't throw rocks.

gulfgal98's picture

Apology accepted. Relax and enjoy this site now. Good

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Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?

“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy

JayRaye's picture

C99 has always welcomed our fellow bloggers to post at TOP if they so choose.

And I hope we will continue to do so.

It is their choice and don't see any reason to chastise those who choose to post in both places. I, for one, give them what support I can by continuing to rec Bernie diaries over there.

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Never be deceived that the rich will allow you to vote away their wealth.-Lucy Parsons

It's totally censorship, and prior to abandoning DKos on March 15 I was told in no uncertain terms by many people there that it's Kos' site and free speech does not exist. One of them used an analogy - what if somebody came along and pasted a Ted Cruz bumper sticker on YOUR car?

They convinced me that to stay and advocate for freedom of speech on DKos would be a waste of time.

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"We've done the impossible, and that makes us mighty."

That we have to BEG Bernie dk diarists to post here or at reddit Kossacks_for_Sanders. WHY!? THIS IS why I think it was more about them and getting eyeballs than it is about berning sometimes. Because where the hell is gbb where is opal where are all the recommended Bernie people who wrote? They frikkin humiliate themselves further crawl back to that shitstain and then set up obvious zombie or sock puppet accounts so they can keep writing and get recommended and we all know who the fuck they are and look the other way. Jesus this is insane. There's no bigger corrupt asshole site than Dailykos. What the fuck?

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You sure sound like one to me.

What you do NOT sound like is a recent refugee from DK who is just venting trauma.

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TheOtherMaven's picture

The more public, the better. I suppose that's one definition of a "troll", but I'd really rather we didn't start a C99 version of the Propriety Police.

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There is no justice. There can be no peace.

I'm sure they'll let me know if they think I've gone too far.

If you disapprove of 'Purity Police', what was your purpose in introducing that term in reply to my comment? If you intended that usage for any reason than to shame me into limiting my self-expression, please clarify.

My understanding is that the Owners/Mods understand that site moderation will have to change as the site grows, and that will let moderation evolve according to changing circumstances.

It would be dangerously naive, imo, for people here to believe that 'only nice people with good intentions willjoin and post here'. Trolls, sock puppets (including cyber-socks) and ratfuckers exist online; they will come here to, and may have already.

In the comment where Kos TO'd OPOL, he alluded to c99, in effect making it and 'Kossacks for Sanders' into Enemies of (his) State. The trollish comments inserted into this thread would make prime material to be inserted into comments on DK, to 'prove' to credulous souls that this site only exists to demonize DK with slanderous slime. (I've seen that done already with clips from comments here.)

Yes, we've seen harm done by abusive use of site moderation. But I think it would be a BIG mistake to train ourselves to self-censor because 'we don't want to be not-nice'.

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pfiore8's picture

IGNORE them. i had a website and i had trolls. and the trolls really weren't the problem, imo. but some of the bloggers . . . it made me leave my own blog in the end.

but all the fuss about what they post ... it gives them oxygen and power.

don't respond. or be wickedly fabulous in responding. but don't let's do this troll thing. because once it starts and they know they can get reactions, they'll be all over the place.

and then we get the hammers.

i really advise against this route.

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“There are moments which are not calculable, and cannot be assessed in words; they live on in the solution of memory… ”
― Lawrence Durrell, "Justine"

I'll bet it was that gotter guy, he was a real SOB!!

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pfiore8's picture

smooches old friend.

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“There are moments which are not calculable, and cannot be assessed in words; they live on in the solution of memory… ”
― Lawrence Durrell, "Justine"

by taking action against them. This is an old rule.

(I am speaking now of trolls in general, not specifically about the person who behaved trollishly in this thread.)

People who behave trollishly can learn to behave differently, if they are not true trolls.

True trolls cannot be changed and will remain true trolls forever, and every website must work out its own ways of attempting to diminish their presence.

Denial of this reality is not useful.

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The earth is a multibillion-year-old sphere.
The Nazis killed millions of Jews.
On 9/11/01 a Boeing 757 (AA77) flew into the Pentagon.
AGCC is happening.
If you cannot accept these facts, I cannot fake an interest in any of your opinions.

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