Russiagate 2.0: Now with more stupid

Submitted by gjohnsit on Sat, 10/20/2018 - 4:03pm

We can soon forget Russia's "meddling" in the 2016 election (or lack of meddling), because the Justice Department is already throwing down indictments for meddling in the 2018 midterm elections.

Russians working for a close ally of President Vladimir V. Putin are engaging in an elaborate campaign of “information warfare” to interfere with the American midterm elections next month, federal prosecutors said on Friday in unsealing charges against a woman whom they labeled the project’s “chief accountant.”

Information warfare? That sounds serious.
So what exactly is her objectives?

But this time, prosecutors said the operatives appeared beholden to no particular candidate. Russia’s trolls did not limit themselves to either a liberal or conservative position, according to the complaint. They often wrote from diverging viewpoints on the same issue.

Uh, that's called trolling, and if trolling is against the law then 4Chan should watch out.
It seems that trolling now equals fraud.

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It isn't just Russia. China and Iran are meddling as well.

In a joint statement, the Office of the Director of National Intelligence, Justice Department, FBI and Department of Homeland Security said they "do not have any evidence" that foreign countries have disrupted the voting process or changed any tallies, but that the campaigns have spread "disinformation" and "foreign propaganda."

"We are concerned about ongoing campaigns by Russia, China and other foreign actors, including Iran, to undermine confidence in democratic institutions and influence public sentiment and government policies," the statement said. "These activities also may seek to influence voter perceptions and decision making in the 2018 and 2020 U.S. elections."

So how exactly are they defrauding the American public?
As for "undermine confidence in democratic institutions", we already know that we are an oligarchy, not a democracy.
So I think the burden of evidence is on our government to prove otherwise, not on Russia.
ReinsDemocracy-480x479.gif

I've come to the realization that the MSM and our government are using a very different definition of "democracy" and "democratic institutions" than the one in the dictionary.
Their version of "democracy" is all about national security and financial interests, and have very little to do with elections and popular will.

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Submitted by gjohnsit on Sat, 10/20/2018 - 4:18pm

You would think from the MSM that Russiagate is "liberals" versus Trump, and that everyone on "the left" is OK with this.
But even some in the media have noticed that leftists that don't identify as Democrats are Russiagate skeptics.

Why Are So Many Leftists Skeptical of the Russia Investigation?

Why the left needs to wise up to the growing Trump-Russia scandal

and of course TOP is fully onboard

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Submitted by The Voice In th... on Sat, 10/20/2018 - 4:28pm

@gjohnsit
AFAIK, all those facebook posts would be legal if posted by someone in the USA.
Are foreign ideas illegal now? are ideas and opinions illegal?

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I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.

Submitted by gjohnsit on Sat, 10/20/2018 - 5:33pm

@The Voice In the Wilderness
This is supposed to be bad from the official report

RT aired a documentary about the Occupy
Wall Street movement on 1, 2, and
4 November. RT framed the movement as a
fight against "the ruling class" and described
the current US political system as corrupt and
dominated by corporations. RT advertising
for the documentary featured Occupy
movement calls to "take back" the
government. The documentary claimed that
the US system cannot be changed
democratically, but only through "revolution."
After the 6 November US presidential
election, RT aired a documentary called
"Cultures of Protest," about active and often
violent political resistance

RT's reports often characterize the United
States as a "surveillance state" and allege
widespread infringements of civil liberties,
police brutality, and drone use

RT has also focused on criticism of the US
economic system, US currency policy, alleged
Wall Street greed, and the US national debt. Some of RT's hosts have compared the United States to
Imperial Rome and have predicted that government corruption and "corporate greed" will lead to US
financial collapse

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Submitted by Linda Wood on Sat, 10/20/2018 - 11:19pm

@gjohnsit

alleged Wall Street greed

Alledged Wall Street greed?

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Submitted by leveymg on Sat, 10/20/2018 - 5:49pm

@The Voice In the Wilderness @The Voice In the Wilderness
when carried out by employees of thousands of foreign-owned companies from countries other than Russia.

Basically, this Russian woman is being indicted for doing the books for a Russian entity that incorporated a number of US businesses. These businesses had persons write and post under pen names a number of articles dealing with political subjects. That has been interpreted by the Special Counsel as a conspiracy to violate a federal campaign law that forbids contributions to US election campaigns. That's right, the indictment construes written opinion to be the same as money contributions.

The case would probably be thrown out -- nobody has been prosecuted for this before -- however the woman indicted will never be in court to defend herself, as the prosecutor and FBI know. Mueller is getting desperate to come up with indictments to fill in his jig saw puzzle.

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Submitted by enhydra lutris on Sat, 10/20/2018 - 7:27pm
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@leveymg
speech must be money, n'est ce pas?
/s

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That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

Submitted by leveymg on Sun, 10/21/2018 - 1:09pm

@enhydra lutris @enhydra lutris @enhydra lutris speech is constitutionally protected and can't be limited by campaign finance legislation. Mueller appears to have decided on his own to abrogate the Citizens United decision.

That would be okay, if he applied it to prosecute political mouthpieces such as AIPAC, along with corporate fronts owned by the Saudis, Chinese, British and 100 other countries who similiarly post anonymously.

It's now undeniable: Mueller is the prosecutorial weapon of a very selective political vendetta.

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Submitted by snoopydawg on Sat, 10/20/2018 - 7:51pm
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@gjohnsit

. But somewhere on the left, right around the fault line where Barack Obama is deemed to have been a bad president, opinion turns back again toward skepticism.

It gets worse from there. I'm betting that this was written by someone from the Atlantic Council or maybe Friedman's twin brother. This person sure went to a lot of work to deride anyone who doesn't believe in Russia Gate didn't he?

Facebook has almost admitted that they are censoring people and websites because of Russia's ads on it that they say affected the election. BTW. Didn't Obama also use Cambridge Analytics during his campaign and did the same things that Trump did? Pretty sure that he did. But I guess that was different because of reasons. Yep. That's why.

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There were problems with running a campaign of Joy while committing a genocide? Who could have guessed?

Submitted by snoopydawg on Sat, 10/20/2018 - 5:25pm
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We are concerned about ongoing campaigns by Russia, China and other foreign actors, including Iran, to undermine confidence in democratic institutions and influence public sentiment and government policies,

First off the GOP is doing a hell of a job undermining confidence in democratic institutions and the voting process by its gerrymandering and its voter ID policies. Look at what's happening in Georgia (?) where the guy running is in charge of the voting policies and is kicking thousands of people off the voting rolls.

Influence government policies you say? If millions of Americans can't do that then how could a foreign country do it? BTW. This is already happening what with all the lobbyists and super PACs. But sure. Let's blame the 3 countries that they want to war with. Anyone who believes this shit ... well I'll not finish this sentence.

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There were problems with running a campaign of Joy while committing a genocide? Who could have guessed?

Submitted by gjohnsit on Sat, 10/20/2018 - 6:00pm

@snoopydawg
Look at this hit piece on Jill Stein

Months before the 2016 election they were already calling Jill Stein a "Nader spoiler" (here, here, and here)

Funny how 3rd parties are demonized in this "democracy"

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Submitted by snoopydawg on Sat, 10/20/2018 - 6:35pm
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@gjohnsit

There is so much BS in that article it's hard to choose which one is the worst but I'm going with this one.

But Stein’s willingness to praise Russian propaganda outlets and push Kremlin talking points didn’t end in Moscow. Indeed, she challenged – and arguably surpassed – Trump in crafting the most Moscow-friendly campaign of 2016.

For instance, Stein made the strange claim multiple times that NATO had “surrounded” Russia with nuclear weapons. As she told The Intercept, “This is the Cuban Missile Crisis in reverse, on steroids – in fact, on crack.” (Less than 10 percent of Russia’s land border touches any NATO member-states.) She also said last year that NATO is only fighting “enemies we invent to give the weapons industry a reason to sell more stuff.”

This is what she actually said about NATO and Russia.

Stein: I think this is an issue where something does need to be said--but it's important to understand where they are coming from. The United States, under Bush 1, had an agreement when Germany joined NATO--Russia agreed with the understanding that NATO would not move one inch to the east. Since then NATO has pursued a policy of basically encircling Russia--including the threat of nukes and drones and so on.

Okay and this one too.

Likewise, Stein claimed that Ukraine’s 2014 revolution was, in reality, a “coup” that the U.S. “helped foment.” Only two other leaders have described Ukraine’s toppling of former president Viktor Yanukovych as a “coup”: Putin and Kazakhstani President Nursultan Nazarbayev, whose country remains a security ally of Russia. Stein even spent time last year saying that “Russia used to own Ukraine.”

Pretty sure that during Obama's presidency the Ukraine government was overthrown by this country and now we're arming neo Nazis with some very bad weapons.

ThinkProgress says it's being targeted by ad networks for producing 'controversial political content'. I'm thinking it's more because they lie their asses off to people who read its website. This is the most blatant lying I've seen from a website. How many people believed every word written there?

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There were problems with running a campaign of Joy while committing a genocide? Who could have guessed?

Submitted by divineorder on Sat, 10/20/2018 - 7:08pm
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@gjohnsit

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A truth of the nuclear age/climate change: we can no longer have endless war and survive on this planet. Oh sh*t.

Submitted by Deja on Sat, 10/20/2018 - 7:05pm
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@snoopydawg

First off the GOP is doing a hell of a job undermining confidence in democratic institutions and the voting process by its gerrymandering and its voter ID policies.

I agree with your whole comment. Just wanted to make sure we don't leave out the monster that is the Dem establishment, aka the other half of the single body that screws us every chance it gets. Supposed differences are only spoken, especially in election years. When it gets down to the meat and potatoes, our representatives are one big symbiotic meal -- the kind that gives you the shits until you're dead.

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Submitted by snoopydawg on Sat, 10/20/2018 - 7:24pm
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@Deja

The GOP has made it so that over 10% of the population can't vote this year. I think it's in Georgia where thousands are being kicked off the voting rolls almost every day by the dude that is in charge of it and he is also running for an office. They have been gerrymandering the country and other things. Of course the democrats don't seem to be doing much to make it easier for people to vote. But yeah, both parties are just as corrupt.

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There were problems with running a campaign of Joy while committing a genocide? Who could have guessed?

Submitted by boriscleto on Sat, 10/20/2018 - 9:36pm
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@snoopydawg @snoopydawg

The Guardian: GOP candidate improperly purged 340,000 from Georgia voter rolls, investigation claims

We Sued Brian Kemp This Morning - Greg Palast

Are You One of 769,436 Voters on the Colorado Purge List?

90,000 Purged in Vegas and Reno

Illinois purged 550,000...Indiana purged 20,000...etc...

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Submitted by snoopydawg on Sat, 10/20/2018 - 10:16pm
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@boriscleto

Isn't it Brian Kemp who is not only running for office, but he is also in a position to purge the voting rolls? This is a huge conflict of interest and some judge should have stopped him from being able to do that. I guess that's what people are suing him for?

Close to 500,000 people were not able to vote in one of the states that Trump won in. Not sure if they were Hillary's or Trump's voters though.

BTW. People are upset with Jill Stein because they think that her votes cost Hillary the election when the libertarian candidate got more votes than Jill did. And yet he's not blamed for her loss. I wonder why that is?

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There were problems with running a campaign of Joy while committing a genocide? Who could have guessed?

Submitted by dervish on Sat, 10/20/2018 - 11:46pm
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@snoopydawg

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"Obama promised transparency, but Assange is the one who brought it."

Submitted by lotlizard on Sun, 10/21/2018 - 2:03am
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@Deja  
That makes it all okay for “lesser of two evils” voters.

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Submitted by snoopydawg on Sat, 10/20/2018 - 5:34pm
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Robert Mueller's indictment of the Russians who interfered in our election is a milestone in an ongoing investigation. The charges focus on the Russians who used online social networking platforms to divide voters and disrupt the electoral process.

Changed any votes? Party affiliations? Removed people from the voting rolls? Closed down voting precincts? Didn't supply enough voting machines for high voting areas? Nope. Nope. Nope and nope. Just placed a few ads on Fakebook and most of them after the election was over. It's taken Mueller two years to look into this? If he hasn't found any evidence yet then why waste time and money worrying about China and Iran doing anything? I'm thinking that Mueller is just pretending to be investigating, but he's really spending his time golfing or whatever his favorite activities are.

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There were problems with running a campaign of Joy while committing a genocide? Who could have guessed?

Submitted by Bisbonian on Sun, 10/21/2018 - 10:20am
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@snoopydawg , its like a nuclear submarine calling the teapot black.

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"I’m a human being, first and foremost, and as such I’m for whoever and whatever benefits humanity as a whole.” —Malcolm X

Submitted by Bollox Ref on Sat, 10/20/2018 - 6:16pm
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we were going to receive at Fitzmas?

Hoping the Establishment is going to finally reveal its sausage-making, really is a flight of fancy. McSausage for the McResistance.

The Public are to be seen at voting stations, and not heard.

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Gëzuar!!
from a reasonably stable genius.

Submitted by divineorder on Sat, 10/20/2018 - 6:28pm
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Hell I am surprised they even mentioned that first part.

In a joint statement, the Office of the Director of National Intelligence, Justice Department, FBI and Department of Homeland Security said they "do not have any evidence" that foreign countries have disrupted the voting process or changed any tallies,

At any rate cracked up when I read Caitlin on FB this morning:

Smile

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A truth of the nuclear age/climate change: we can no longer have endless war and survive on this planet. Oh sh*t.

Submitted by snoopydawg on Sat, 10/20/2018 - 7:28pm
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@divineorder

We had Great discussion about Caitlin's article. Lots of good comments.

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There were problems with running a campaign of Joy while committing a genocide? Who could have guessed?

Submitted by divineorder on Sat, 10/20/2018 - 8:10pm
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@snoopydawg later!

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A truth of the nuclear age/climate change: we can no longer have endless war and survive on this planet. Oh sh*t.

Submitted by MrWebster on Sat, 10/20/2018 - 7:04pm

Actually, I am thinking nuclear war with Russia may be the terminus point, but in terms of propaganda we are seeing it. I have followed the Russia hysteria since 2015 when it was in its infant stage here in the States, but advancing in Europe.

There are still some charges that Russians broke into certain accounts as Microsoft has claimed a few months back, but the claims go no where as they have to admit they had absolutely no proof. And the story fades away until a new charge is made, and those now are hard to make up.

As previous posters before in have commented above, basically the terminus point is ascribing all dissent within the Western powers as Russian created. In this charge it is impossible to to argue as no proof is needed except for the existance of dissent. No more charges which can be proved such as an actual hack. And that dissent can be for or against an issue. All issues lead to Moscow.

The huge censorship of various sites done by Facebook and Twitter begin and are justified by the Russia hysteria and "fan news".

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Submitted by divineorder on Sat, 10/20/2018 - 8:19pm
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@MrWebster @snoopydawg

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A truth of the nuclear age/climate change: we can no longer have endless war and survive on this planet. Oh sh*t.

Submitted by snoopydawg on Sat, 10/20/2018 - 10:27pm
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@MrWebster

computer that wasn't even hooked up to the internet. Brennan said that Russia tried to meddle in 21?state's voting rolls, but the states said that never happened. But just like people are still saying that all 17 intelligence (3) agencies agree that Russia interfered with the election people still think that the other stuff is true. This is why spreading propaganda is so powerful. The lies are what they remember, not the retractions if they're ever given.

About those FB ads that swayed the election ...

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There were problems with running a campaign of Joy while committing a genocide? Who could have guessed?

Submitted by Bisbonian on Sun, 10/21/2018 - 10:25am
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@snoopydawg , there are only sixteen intelligence agencies: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Intelligence_Community

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"I’m a human being, first and foremost, and as such I’m for whoever and whatever benefits humanity as a whole.” —Malcolm X

Submitted by The Liberal Moonbat on Sat, 10/20/2018 - 8:38pm
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Who's on first...?

https://www.theonion.com/mueller-ready-to-deliver-major-parts-of-finding...

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In the Land of the Blind, the One-Eyed Man is declared mentally ill for describing colors.

Yes Virginia, there is a Global Banking Conspiracy!

Submitted by Bisbonian on Sun, 10/21/2018 - 10:33am
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@The Liberal Moonbat

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"I’m a human being, first and foremost, and as such I’m for whoever and whatever benefits humanity as a whole.” —Malcolm X

Submitted by ChezJfrey on Sun, 10/21/2018 - 2:10pm

@Bisbonian Yes! That Lobster Murderer comment is gold! Funny stuff.

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Submitted by The Liberal Moonbat on Sun, 10/21/2018 - 3:17pm
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@Bisbonian I think it nails the deeper problem (and what I sometimes fear is the larger strategy).

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In the Land of the Blind, the One-Eyed Man is declared mentally ill for describing colors.

Yes Virginia, there is a Global Banking Conspiracy!

Submitted by The Aspie Corner on Sat, 10/20/2018 - 10:19pm
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the 4000 person caravan from Ecuador has come here to vote illegally. Any news on that?

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Modern education is little more than toeing the line for the capitalist pigs.

Guerrilla Liberalism won't liberate the US or the world from the iron fist of capital.

Submitted by snoopydawg on Sat, 10/20/2018 - 11:06pm
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He still doesn't want to give their attorneys the evidence he has against them.

Judge Orders Mueller To Prove Russian Company Meddled In Election

A Washington federal judge on Thursday ordered special counsel Robert Mueller's team to clarify election meddling claims lodged against a Russian company operated by Yevgeny Prigozhin, an ally of Russian President Vladimir Putin, according to Bloomberg.

Concord Management and Consulting, LLC. - one of three businesses indicted by Mueller in February along with 13 individuals for election meddling, surprised the special counsel in April when they actually showed up in court to fight the charges. Mueller's team tried to delay Concord from entering the case, arguing that thee Russian company not been properly served, however Judge Dabney Friedrich denied the request - effectively telling prosecutors 'well, they're here.'

*
Concord pleaded not guilty in May. Their attorney, Eric Dubelier - a partner at Reed Smith, has described the election meddling charges as "make believe," arguing on Monday that Mueller's indictment against Concord "doesn't charge a crime."

"There is no statute of interfering with an election. There just isn’t," said Dubelier, who added that Mueller's office alleged a "made-up crime to fit the facts they have."

Concord is one of the corporations that Mueller said placed ads on FB to sway people's opinion on Trump and Hillary. The ads that most were placed after the election.

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There were problems with running a campaign of Joy while committing a genocide? Who could have guessed?