Bye Bye Dems - But Now What?
Okay, here's the deal:
I'm done with the Democratic Party. I'm done with lies and BS and Billery and everything they do. It sounds like damn near everyone who blogs here is doing the same. But now comes the big question: What do we do after we dump the dems?
In Wisconsin, we can write in a president and the vote is counted. I believe (?) that the Green Party is on Wisconsin's ballot, so I can vote for Stein. But which is best? To really make a statement, as many people as possible must vote the same way.
Do we write in Bernie, an option available in what, 47 states? Or do we vote for Stein, an option available in just over 20 states, last count I saw. Which sends the best message?
I'm writing Bernie in that space at the top of the ballot. Unless, of course, someone can make a compelling argument for why it is better to vote for Stein.
Thoughts?
(I would add a poll, but would rather read your opinions and thoughts on the matter.)
Comments
Breaking news is Comey giving a presser
at 11 a.m., Obama stumping with HRC this afternoon.
I am at a loss on what to do next.
Moving to Guatemala comes to mind.
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981
So, um...
...what's the cost of living there? And for much longer will they be a sovereign country, what with all the trade deal crap?
The more people I meet, the more I love my cats.
Ouch
If the event was to announce her indictment then Obama would not be holding a joint appearance, so the fix is in.
FYI - I am moving this year to south america, seems none to soon.
Several Friends Settling in Ecuador
I used to think France. But I no longer have a 401k or a house to sell. For now it's Florida. What about Cuba?
Ecuador is great
Foreign culture. But that's the charm.
Deal with the slow pace...it's not NYC.
The Ex-Pat boom seems to be over. Housing prices are coming down. Not a time to buy there til you're really sure you like it.
The ruling party is mostly left and the opposition is further left.
I want a Pony!
Sounds good.
$100 US here = about $160 US there.
A modest 1 br apt here = $500. There = $300.
Rent + Utilities + Internet = about $700 here. About $400 there.
Groceries and gas about the same.
That's an extry $300 /mo. walking around money.
Not bad.
the little things you can do are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-2.1) All about building progressive media.
I am voting for Bernie too
In Oregon. My hope is that Bernie will run indepently. What can we lose? We are already ignored,that won't change if Trump or Hillary get in. Without a third party this is no plan or solution, just a way of saying....I have had it.
Areed
I just want to say "I have had it" in the most effective way possible.
The more people I meet, the more I love my cats.
Voting machines flipping
will give HRC the win.
(Proof is recent primaries.)
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981
All the More Reason
to make as big a statement as possible!
I want justice, godsdammit! I want truth and honesty! I want transparency!
The more people I meet, the more I love my cats.
How much money have you got?
What you're demanding takes multi-megabucks, and if you haven't got them, you're getting bupkis.
There is no justice. There can be no peace.
Money?
I don't need no steenking money!
For my heart is pure and I have the strength of... never mind. We're screwed. (sigh)
The more people I meet, the more I love my cats.
Yeah, I know.
The touch-screen machine flipped my top-of-the-ticket D votes to R two elections in a row years ago when I "touched" the screen to move to the next page. Poll workers had "explanations."
But what the hell do we do?
As much as we can:
- Vote third party / independents on the rigged machines - and call out loudly when the machines flip.
- Vote a paper ballot if you can - and make an effort to observe paper ballot counting.
- Join a coalition if not a party.
- Explore alternatives.
Otherwise, we're just going gently into a very bad night.
Only connect. - E.M. Forster
It's On Bernie
He's my choice unless and until he says he's out. If he exits the convention and doesn't say he's done, he gets my vote as a write-in.
Jill Stein is my fall-back position if Bernie says he's done and leaves the contest.
Vowing To Oppose Everything Trump Attempts.
If Bernie doesn't run third party
It is unlikely that write in votes for him will even be counted. In most states, paperwork has to be filed to get write ins counted, and he probably won't do that. Plus, the filing deadlines are starting to come thick and fast.
This is why I am voting Stein (or trying to) because those votes will be counted. And yes, voting machines may be vulnerable, but in the general you have different dynamics because of the two major parties, each of which has a positive incentive to count votes for opposition spoilers.
Washington Greens have just submitted the requisite number of signatures for my state, so I'm optimistic. Stein may not be perfect (or even full time) but if I'm going to protest, I'd sort of like it to be noticed...
We can’t save the world by playing by the rules, because the rules have to be changed.
- Greta Thunberg
Voting Bernie if possible, otherwise Stein.
Although it is getting harder and harder to motivate myself to vote at all...
I have to say I'm tired too
But unfortunately that's what they are counting on.
We can’t save the world by playing by the rules, because the rules have to be changed.
- Greta Thunberg
WI write ins MUST be filed
So not only do they have to file, but they have to provide electors.
The Greens are on the ballot in WI, so that is probably your best bet.
We can’t save the world by playing by the rules, because the rules have to be changed.
- Greta Thunberg
Here is the game plan.
1. The Greens are making progress in getting on ballots and we can help them. Right now, it looks like they might actually get 40 or so states.
2. We encourage ALL Berniecrats to vote for Stein. We cordially invite all disgusted Republicans to vote for Stein.
3. The election is held. Stein gets a plurality but not a majority of the electoral college. The election becomes a contingent election in the House.
4. In contingent elections, the House votes for the top three candidates. Each state gets one vote. A simple majority of 26 states in the House is enough to elect.
5. If Stein got a plurality of electoral votes, she could probably harvest the votes from 26 states. And Stein will be President.
6. The Senate selects the VP but I have no idea how that's going to go.
Source: http://electoralcollegehistory.com/electoral/crs-congress.asp
Life is strong. I'm weak, but Life is strong.
I wonder who the Senate would pick as Stein's VP
Mitch McConnell?
Beware the bullshit factories.
Mitch is getting long-in-the-tooth.
Paul Ryan might be nice...
Hey! my dear friends or soon-to-be's, JtC could use the donations to keep this site functioning for those of us who can still see the life preserver or flotsam in the water.
I am voting Jill Stein
Bernie is going to do what he said he would do, back the D Party against the Donald. The Democrats are dead to me but not to Bernie.
We need a progressive party. In spite of what Hillary says, she and her party are not progressive.
You answered your own question
Write ins will invalidate many people's entire ballots so to get as many people as possible to vote the same way, we all have to vote for Stein.
It's not even a question anymore. This isn't about "making a statement" because no one is even listening. This is about starting a revolution and to do that, we need a third party. We can't really form one, we have to take what's there. It just so happens the Green Party stands for all the same things we do. So if our revolution is about the issues, then vote Stein.
Kinda?
But maybe I didn't. It all depends on whether Bernie goes for the gold or stays with the dems. If the paperwork is filed, that's 47 states where write-in voting is counted.
If he does not break away, I agree, we have to go with Stein. If the Green Party can get its act together, they might be on the ballet in 40(?) states? Are they making any headway at all in getting on more ballots?
The more people I meet, the more I love my cats.
Write ins are counted in most states
I'd be careful using a broad brush like that.
FDR 9-23-33, "If we cannot do this one way, we will do it another way. But do it we will.
Are we sure of that?
That write-ins are actually counted? I wrote in Teachout for NY Gov, no idea if my vote was counted. Small district, known faces, maybe.
Hey! my dear friends or soon-to-be's, JtC could use the donations to keep this site functioning for those of us who can still see the life preserver or flotsam in the water.
I looked it up for NY. Yes.
Sometimes the top write ins get published in the paper.
FDR 9-23-33, "If we cannot do this one way, we will do it another way. But do it we will.
So if Write ins are counted don't they have to be hand counted?
I wouldn't think Diebold would have any plug-ins for flipping hand written votes. I think we all got to get behind Stein or Bernie and not split our vote. Right now I'm supporting Stein because she is actually a really good candidate and if given half a chance she will mop the floor with Hillary.
Beware the bullshit factories.
You mean like Provisional Ballots?
In other words, no, they're not counted.
Which is why the powers that be really want us to write in for Bernie. Because then they can ignore us. And because they know few will actually do it. No write in candidate ever gets but 1 or 2%. But if we actually vote Green Party, then it's a bit more problematical.
I seriously distrust anyone that favors write in over going Green.
I love the color green.
So friendly and peaceful.
I hope Grandma Yuppie celebrates so much that she passes out and drowns in her own vomit.
"I can't understand why people are frightened of new ideas. I'm frightened of the old ones."
John Cage
I'd say only vote for Bernie if he declares that he is running
But assume that he has expressed fealty to the PTB. Jill Stein seems to me the obvious plan.
Beware the bullshit factories.
Just donated $27 at jill2016.com
My first political donation in years.
No big hopes, but perhaps she'll be able to raise enough money to run some national ads and do a bit of consciousness-raising.
Only connect. - E.M. Forster
That's how a lot of people felt about Bernie a year ago
That's why we can make Jill President.
Beware the bullshit factories.
I will vote Green
If they are on the ballot in Washington state, I will for Jill Stein.
Greens are on the ballot in Washington state.
Go for it.
Life is strong. I'm weak, but Life is strong.
Is that definite?
They submitted the signatures last week, but I haven't heard if they were accepted yet.
We can’t save the world by playing by the rules, because the rules have to be changed.
- Greta Thunberg
I hate North Carolina
The rules for ballot access are so Byzantine and Ridiculous that I can not write in Bernie (sore loser laws). Also, Jill will not be on the ballot either (The barrier for ballot access is very early and tough in NC). At this point, I might just vote Libertarian because there are so few choices. IT amazes me that Jill can be on the ballot in TX and SC but not NC.
War, War Never Changes - Fallout Series
I Can't Say
that I see the value of voting libertarian. Too caught up in limiting government and over-valuing property rights.
The more people I meet, the more I love my cats.
Here in NC
Here in NC my choices are looking like Trump, Clinton, or Johnson. Out of the three, I trust Johnson the most. He was Governor of New Mexico when I lived there and was willing to work with the Democratic Legislature. I don't have many options here.
War, War Never Changes - Fallout Series
Jill Stein is the best option
For the life of me, I cannot see the value in voting for a non-candidate who has explicitly expressed his intention to vote for Hillary Clinton. Especially when such votes won't even be counted. And yet, many, many people are still talking about writing in Bernie Sanders. Why?
In 2012, Green Party candidate Jill Stein appeared on the ballot in 36 states, plus the District of Columbia. She appeared on 83 percent of all ballots cast. This year, the Greens are getting a lot more publicity, and there is an excellent chance they will substantially exceed the level of ballot access they achieved four years ago.
The Green Party is not perfect (nor is Senator Sanders), but its platform is extremely progressive, and Jill Stein is a thoughtful, articulate and inspiring individual who, unlike Bernie, has long recognized the futility of attempting to pursue a "people's revolution" through a deeply corrupt, venal, and corporate dominated institution like the Democratic Party.
Personally, I see no realistic scenario under which Clinton does not end up being the next president. But a major groundswell of support for Jill Stein and the Green Party could still change the contours of the U.S. political system in a way that would promote a substantially more honest and responsive government in the future.
Suppose one half, or even a third, of the Bernie supporters who turned out for his rallies and showed such enthusiasm for his candidacy showed the same level of allegiance to Jill Stein. "Green Party achieves critical mass" would turn out to be the story of the 2016 campaign. Stein would surely get into the debates, and would undoubtedly shine in comparison with the two corrupt hacks she'd be sharing the stage with. And the Green Party would qualify for federal funding, solidifying in peoples' minds that it represented a genuine, viable alternative to the two corporate dominated parties that offer nothing more than slightly different flavors of more of the same.
Sadly, it's very unlikely that anything like this will in fact happen, because most voters are still unable to bring themselves to embrace anything outside the confines of the established duopoly. The end result being endless repetitions of the Charlie Brown and Lucy Effect, wherein every four or eight years we once again convince ourselves that this time the insurgent Democratic candidate has a real shot, and the status quo, more of the same candidate is riding for a fall. Which in reality is about as delusional as believing you can beat the roulette wheel, even though the croupier has a button on the floor with which he can make it stop at any number he pleases. Good luck with that!
What it boils down to is that changing the system will remain an impossibility until we are first able to change ourselves.
inactive account
It Depends on Bernie
If he stays with the dems, he's toast. He will have shown himself to lack the integrity of his convictions, since the dems have shown they don't give a shit. So, no vote. No write in. No anything.
That's where Stein and the Green Party comes in.
But if he does break away, tells the world he was betrayed and will run (maybe with Stein?), then the game changes. I'm not counting on it. But I'll wait until after the convention to decide.
No matter what, no vote for Billery or Drumpf.
The more people I meet, the more I love my cats.
Bernie's Break Away
If Bernie does break away and decide to run 3rd party, I don't think it matters in my state (NC). I think we have a "sore losers" law here where a candidate that lost in their party's primary can't run as an independent/3rd party and be counted.
I am just writing Bernie's name in on my ballot. And I will only vote down ticket for candidates that Bernie has vetted and is backing. After the election fraud, voter suppression, Comey's decision, and Obama's lack of leadership in all of these areas, I am convinced that the Democratic Party is anything but democratic and they do not deserve my backing. Hell - they proved this election that they can get along fine without it - they just steal the votes.
You are correct
Writing in Bernie just means the vote gets thrown away in NC. Since Jill and the Greens do not have ballot access either, writing her in gets the vote thrown away. The laws in this state are ridiculous. At this point, I am voting Libertarian since I don't have have many options.
War, War Never Changes - Fallout Series
Don't know much about Johnson
except that he was elected and re-elected (whatever that means) as governor of New Mexico and I think he is for legalizing weed. I think he may be part of the whole sham but from what I know I would cast a counted or uncounted ballot for him over Trump and Hillary. Not over Jill Stein.
Beware the bullshit factories.
As Governor
Johnson was Governor of New Mexico while I lived there. I have a good opinion of him overall. He was willing to work with the Democratic Legislature and the compromises were not bad. He isn't my favorite choice, but for me, he isn't a bad choice.
War, War Never Changes - Fallout Series
If Sanders votes for the 'Democratic Candidate' I can say with
an absolute certainty that this whole 'revolution' bit will go right down the dumper. So much of this primary was based on TRUST. Trust that it would be fair. Trust that it wouldn't be rigged. Trust that the Clinton cabal wouldn't cheat. THEY DID ALL OF THAT. If Sanders votes for her, in spite of all they did to destroy his campaign, you might as well just hold the door open to all those who got excited because they might actually have an honest person to vote for as they leave and never come back. They will feel betrayed and used. An honest person doesn't uphold what Clinton has done to the country and what her and the hubby's brand of politics has done to the minorities and the poor people of this country OR the way they rigged this election. To go along with all that, in particular that last one, would blow his credibility out of the water.
I hope he doesn't vote for her, but it's his vote and he can do what he wants. But you are either for or against corruption. This is not a 'middle ground' issue.
EDIT: Lost track of my thought and forgot part of my sentences.
I'm tired of this back-slapping "Isn't humanity neat?" bullshit. We're a virus with shoes, okay? That's all we are. - Bill Hicks
Politics is the entertainment branch of industry. - Frank Zappa
We have to repeat what we did with Sanders with the Green Party
Bernie Sanders proved that a large group of poor/middle class people can make a difference in elections and bring attention to important issues. We have to repeat that with the Green Party. Yes, the organization has issues, so get involved, don't complain about the Green Party. Cynicism only hurts what we are trying to accomplish. Make donations (I just made a small one the other day), spread the word online (Here's Jill's twitter account: https://twitter.com/DrJillStein), volunteer....
"First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win."
I'd vote for Stein. Every
I'd vote for Stein. Every vote for the greens benefits an actually existing (if imperfect) progressive organization while a large number of write-in votes for Sanders would looknice but leave no practical impact on the electoral sphere. A 5% share of the vote would net the Greens some federal matching funds which would allow them to more effectively compete on the state and locals levels. You know, make the Democrats actually earn our votes once in awhile.
And the Greens have been able to do some good stuff in those places where they've actually been able to exercise power (like two -term Richmond CA mayor Gayle McLaughlin (2007-2015))
So long, Jim. I hope you find peace in another party.
Or no party, if that's how it sorts out for you. I wish you the best.
Wel, That's an Interesting Statement.
Do you think we should back the dems? Should we go Green? What do you propose?
The more people I meet, the more I love my cats.
Nothing but sincere good wishes.
Deciding whom to back is such an individual decision. We all just have to find peace for ourselves.
We need to get together all in one place
Here's an option: http://www.unitedprogressiveparty.org/
I don't know why but I just don't think most people consider the Green party. Maybe something fresher is an option?