How will Russia respond?

Assuming Trump bombs Syria, which appears to be likely, what will/can Russia do?
Plenty. What's more, they seem willing to respond.

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First of all, Syria and Russia aren't the Taliban or Saddam's Iraq.
The bombing itself may not go according to plan.

Russia has been deploying anti-missile defenses since last year, although they appear to be concentrated in the north-west part of Syria.
Assuming that Israeli weapons are a proxy for our weapons (a safe bet), then it's likely that not all of our missiles will make it to the targets.

The statement also said that the strike was carried out by two Israeli fighter jets in Lebanese airspace and that Syrian air defenses intercepted between five and eight missiles.

Five out of how many? It's impossible to say.
Now America can avoid the anti-missile defenses by bombing Syria directly, but that has greater risks.

Syrian anti-aircraft batteries scored a rare shoot-down of an Israeli F-16 late Saturday morning local time. It is being alleged by a whole range of analysts that this shoot-down could not have happened without Russian help. It required that the anti-aircraft personnel break Israeli radar jamming. Since Russia supplies Syrian anti-aircraft weaponry, and Russian technicians maintain it and train their Syrian colleagues, a Russian hand here is highly likely.

Now normally we would avoid the risk of one of our pilots getting shot down by using drones, but Russia has a response to that as well.

The Russian military has been jamming some U.S. military drones operating in the skies over Syria, seriously affecting American military operations, according to four U.S. officials.
The Russians began jamming some smaller U.S. drones several weeks ago, the officials said, after a series of suspected chemical weapons attacks on civilians in rebel-held eastern Ghouta. The Russian military was concerned the U.S. military would retaliate for the attacks and began jamming the GPS systems of drones operating in the area, the officials explained.

Russia has also deployed their most advanced fighters in Syria, but I'd be surprised if they directly confronted us in the skies.
It's more likely that they would be happy with just shooting down a few of our bombers, which hasn't been an issue since the first Gulf War.

The thing is, this doesn't end when we stop bombing Syrian airfields.
Russian/Syrian/Iranian proxy forces are perfectly capable of attacking U.S. troops near Deir Ezzor and al-Tanf.

And that's only the start.
While we are busy with Damascus, Russia's new buddy in the region, Turkey, could make a move on Manbij.

Russia might be indirectly encouraging Turkey to advance toward Syria’s northeastern town of Manbij while further sidelining Washington from the Syrian scene after President Donald Trump voiced his plans to withdraw US troops from Syria, sources familiar with the situation hinted after a summit on Syria last week in Turkey.
...Meanwhile, Turkey would like to "liberate" Manbij from the People's Protection Units (YPG), which Ankara considers a Kurdish terrorist group. Although Moscow doesn't necessarily want to see further escalation in that area, sources say Russia might be nudging the Turkish military to enter Manbij to disrupt Ankara's ties with Washington and NATO. The United States has special operations units in Manbij, and there is a risk of direct confrontation. The United States has repeatedly warned Turkey not to advance toward Manbij.

Both the U.S. and France have military bases around Manbij.
A move by Turkey on Manbij would throw all of the neocon's plans for Syria into chaos.

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Comments

if a bunch of Americans gets killed?

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14 users have voted.

in your essay says,

The Russians began jamming some smaller U.S. drones several weeks ago, the officials said, after a series of suspected chemical weapons attacks on civilians in rebel-held eastern Ghouta.

OK. What has been reported is that Syrian forces in recent weeks discovered a chemical weapons cache and factory in this rebel-held area and released photographs of western labels, German and British, on the chemical munitions. The finding of this cache is a huge development, incriminating both the rebels and their suppliers. It may be that Syrian and Russian forces believe U.S. drones were meant to destroy this evidence.

Also, today there is Russian accusation that strikes may be aimed at destroying evidence or absence of evidence that would be available to OPCW inspectors.

https://www.rt.com/news/423807-moscow-trump-syria-missiles/

Moscow to Trump: Are ‘smart’ missiles an attempt to destroy alleged chem attack evidence in Syria?
11 Apr, 2018

… Zakharova … added the US may be seeking to undermine an inspection by chemical weapons experts, who are planning to investigate on the ground in Syria after the alleged attack which sparked the current confrontation between Russia and the US.

“Are the OPCW inspectors aware that smart missiles are about to destroy all evidence of the chemical weapons use on the ground? Or is that the actual plan – to cover up all evidence of this fabricated attack with smart missile strikes, so that international inspectors had no evidence to look for?” Zakharova asked.

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if we kill Russians in an illegal attack, they would have every right to do so. Tucker Carlson continues to point out that this is most likely a false flag situation. (Lou Dobbs even briefly chimed in that candidate Trump opposed these regime change wars.)
Carlson had Greenwald on to clarify his stupid performance on Democracy Now.(He now thinks Assad did it, but wants to see proof before we attack.)
Fox News has the only voice of reason of this subject. God help us.

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19 users have voted.

chuck utzman

You can blame me. I did not vote for Her Heinous.

Meteor Man's picture

Turkey Warns US Bombing of Syria Could Set Entire Middle East 'on Fire'

"If an attack occurs against the forces backed by Russia or there is an attack by the U.S.-supported forces, Russia won't be able to stay away. So, serious clashes may start."

And:

"If an attack occurs against the forces [in Syria] backed by Russia or there is an attack by the U.S.-supported forces, Russia won't be able to stay away, otherwise it will lose its influence. So, serious clashes may start," Canikli added, urging the U.S., Russian, and Syrian governments to "act with restraint."

Asking Trump and Bolton to "act with restraint"?

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12 users have voted.

"They'll say we're disturbing the peace, but there is no peace. What really bothers them is that we are disturbing the war." Howard Zinn

At least that is what some experts are saying. Russians may have good anti-missile defense, but won't be able to handle an overwhelming massive in numbers strike.

Germans are awfully quiet. Maybe Merkel realizes Berlin will go up in flames if this continues.

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@MrWebster

of missiles, or no massive numbers, the real threat is that Putin has stated they will attack the source of our missile attacks, i.e., our ships, which are heading to locations close to Russian bases and shipping facilities in Syria. So this puts Putin in the position of either standing down or committing national suicide along with us.

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jorogo's picture

@Linda Wood @Linda Wood
standing down is the same as committing national suicide. Any rational assessment should reason that he would, and should, retaliate to illegal strikes against, or affecting, Russia's legitimate (by way of invitation) mission in Syria.

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"If I sit silently, I have sinned." - Mossadegh

@jorogo

and I feel the same way. But just as we, meaning we, the United States, have to realize that if we escalate to the point where Crimea and Syria are devastated, if we avenge our ships and if the Russian Black Sea Fleet is devastated at Sevastopol, just as we have to realize Russia will fight back, Russia has to realize that we will fight back.

That's what Putin means when he hopes common sense will prevail. The problem is, our government is in the hands of John Bolton, who not only doesn't get it, but who is also insane. That's the problem.

That's the problem Putin is facing. We have a government that will gladly destroy Eurasia and the American people for the high it will give them and the trajectory it will take them toward victory. Putin can't move rationally. He has to move as if he were in a war with a suicidal machine with no brain, no heart, no loyalties. Because that's where he is, in a war with an irrational psychopathic fool.

He has to put down his gun and hand the keys to his country to Bolton. We are no longer in a war with Hitler, in which the more we bomb the more we win. We have built a machine guaranteed to kill us if we use it.

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Bob In Portland's picture

@Linda Wood It's not John Bolton. The US has been aiming to destroy Russia and its massive energy sector (or even better, take it over) since the end of WWII.

This upcoming war is the work of the permanent government.

If the US attacks a patch of Syrian desert where no one is, there will probably be no retaliation. If Russian personnel are killed, expect a World War. The question will be whether or not it escalates immediately to nuclear annihilation or there's some sort of war coming from Ukraine or the Baltic States.

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@Linda Wood

rather than being slaughtered when they can't duck. People have a right to defend themselves and their friends against attackers and they must do so by eliminating the source of the attacks.

In an actual war, throughout history, one takes out the archers, the cannon, the machine-gun nests, the battleships, the launchers, the bombers - or one dies along with one's countrymen and country without even trying to defend them.

And that's what the psychopathic bullies infiltrating the US government (among others) don't get because they believe that everything is inherently theirs and that nothing matters but getting what they want, which is everything, with nothing for anyone else, not even basic human rights. There is never enough for them, having most - they must still drain the poor for the last drop of anything they have. We know this.

TPTB have been polishing their egos and filling their off-shore accounts by mostly fighting desperate groups of individuals, those in smaller groups, terrorists which TPTB have created by their atrocities and various factions 'on their side' have often armed/trained/financed; in too many countries belonging to other people by droning and gunning down or bombing seemingly mostly unarmed civilians labeled as 'terrorists' after the fact; by attacking and invading impoverished countries, those with small armies; they call it 'asymmetric warfare'; I call it bullying war-crimes.

The US PTB have the world's largest military by bleeding their citizens dry and stealing from other people's invaded countries, and they have it because they want Total Global Dominance, micromanaged control of all people and the planet itself.

So far, nobody whose countries they've attacked, invaded and occupied has been able to defeat them and drive them off, but now they've graduated to stronger countries, with others among the Psychopaths That Be from other countries piling on to gang up against them. And a decisive defeat of this ghoulish attack is the only chance of stopping them before they finish destroying what remains of the world of life which they will do in any event, in the near future. If they're smart enough to draw back and admit that they were wrong and if they suffer consequences in an independent world court, should there be one still uncorrupted, there may even be a chance for democracy and survival. But if the last bastions able to protect themselves back down - how does that save the world being destroyed in a multiple of ways? Better to go down fighting, anyway.

This is not your country and people doing this, this is being done by The Psychopaths That Be, and it is they who must be defeated and driven from power, if any of us is to survive.

They are committing another flagrant war-crime - and they are madmen. We cannot expect the intended victims to passively lie down for their own slaughter.

We know this... We have not been able to stop them cheating and rigging in order to have free and fair elections in our own countries, never mind stop them from dispossessing and slaughtering people all over the world, while destroying our ecological life support system for increased profits and military radar/target practice.

If a gang of virulent, sadistic criminals attack your friend's home before attacking yours, while you're visiting that friend, and there are guns in the home and no help other than what's there, do you let them shoot everyone in the house through the windows without attempting to stop them out of fear that a bullet may travel and hit someone further away and not attacking you and your friend's family, or try to shoot them to stop them before they kill you and those others in the house, before they start attacking your family at home - and everyone else's in the neighbourhood?

Yes, they may move to firebombing the buildings with you in them, but they are going to kill you anyway; that's what they do.

And we know this, also.

I never did get my lips stretched out enough to reach my ass for that good-by kiss, either...

Of course we're scared - but we cannot continue to wish for evil to win at the cost of everything and everyone else, even if only because it's all gone, either way. That's what they do.

Edit:

...He has to put down his gun and hand the keys to his country to Bolton. We are no longer in a war with Hitler, in which the more we bomb the more we win. We have built a machine guaranteed to kill us if we use it.

I'm sorry, but can't you see that the US PTB are Hitler and that various governments among the Allies fighting him the last time have been also infiltrated by fascists no different from the Nazis where they feel they can get away with it?

Apart from the thin PR pretence of 'spreading democracy', what's substantially different from Hitler attacking, invading and occupying countries around the world to gain Total Global Dominance, brutalizing, torturing and oppressing along the way, and the US PTB doing exactly the same thing? Only with Total Information Technology, where they can watch our every move and are working on trying to read our thoughts to see if we might be guilty of thought-crimes?

Please, think for a moment; would you have advocated that everyone put down their guns and hand the keys to their country to Hitler? Or to keep fighting so as not to let evil win, as it lost when thought unstoppable because people kept fighting - and much of this win was made possible because the Russian people refused to accept being invaded and quietly slaughtered?

TPTB are already destroying the Earth's life support system; you have a sadistic torturer taking charge of the CIA already guilty of too many globally and locally destructive crimes to list; things are about to go from barely survivable to a short, nasty and brutish life in the process of going extinct if they aren't stopped and the people don't find a way to bring democracy to America.

And you are asking the intended victims to submit to a monster? Please, deep breath, and think.

Right matters, and self-defense is sometimes essential.

Re-edited for a letter-typo and missed letter. Indeed, we're all scared...

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Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.

A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.

@Ellen North

with everything you've said, especially this:

I'm sorry, but can't you see that the US PTB are Hitler

Yes. These fascists in our government are the legacy of the Nazi war industrialists who ran Hitler and who continue to arm dictators and death squads worldwide. They definitely, have consistently, and do continually act to enslave the world at the point of a gun and at the blade of a knife.

The difference between fighting Hitler in 1940 and fighting a nuclear armed Hitler now, however, is that in 2018 Hitler and Russia both have nukes, and using those nukes will end life on earth. Russia did defeat Hitler, and Americans did die to defeat Hitler, and yes, you and I would do the same. But we cannot win a nuclear war, neither with John Bolton nor with Hitler. Neither can Russia. That is the reality of Mutually Assured Destruction.

What's also true is that in defeating Germany and Japan in WWII, bombing the shit out of everybody, we clearly didn't defeat fascism. It is still here and is in every country our powers that be have raped and murdered. We cannot destroy these horrific powers with nuclear weapons, unless we also willing to destroy the people we are trying to free.

Bolton would kill everybody before he'd back down. That's clear and evident. If you believe that sudden incineration of the planet is preferable to the chances we have of challenging the powers that be through positive change, then I respect your position. And I recognize that if Russia and the rest of the world backs down to Bolton, we are elevating a madman and his army of obnoxious jerks to power over our countries. But guess what, they're already there.

I definitely respect and completely admire the side of Russia, for all the reasons cited here and elsewhere about Putin's forbearance. I want desperately for Putin or Rand Paul or someone in this country or in Finland or somewhere to defuse this horrible situation. It is a true crisis. But if we can't defuse it, we have to stop playing with this madman, put the guns down, and let madman Bolton fanny around laughing at us while we think of a way to put his toys out of his reach, and wait for someone to disappear him.

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Big Al's picture

@Linda Wood It's almost unbearable knowing what we know and having to watch this shit go on without really being able to do something about it, or them. The people doing this and that have done this are fucking evil, I don't see any sense in sugar coating it. They don't care about human beings, to them, we're all just like the other animals on the planet, maybe even less so for some. I've got three young grandsons and one young granddaughter, I'm ready to fight.

We know what to do. I really believe that. And I think it's time to do it.

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@Linda Wood

Personally, I'd rather - if I must - go down because somebody fought back than because nobody did.

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Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.

A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.

Bob In Portland's picture

@MrWebster When the shooting starts, the fascists in Ukraine may take this as their time for glory. They may think that they can retake Donbass. At the very least, I'm sure that they will target those gas pipelines which carry Russian natural gas to Germany. Merkel can't be happy.

When war breaks out in one place other places can explode. If Ukraine sees a weakness in Russia's situation they may well move.

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snoopydawg's picture

@Bob In Portland

77,000 of them to the border by Donbass. I posted a link to the article on this last night in another essay if you're interested.

If Putin stands down in Syria, he's telling us that we can do whatever the Hell we want to the world. I've been reading articles from ex Russian officials saying that it's time for Russia to stop our bullying. If he lets Syria be overthrown now, then we win the whole enchilada and then the rest of the countries that have resources we want can just wait in line until we get to them. This is what Putin has to decide. What's sad is how many people are hoping that he does tell us that we've done enough damage to the world. I've read other comments that say that. What a strange world we live in, ehh?

Here's an article that I read earlier today on this. It goes through a lot of history of ours and Russia's actions and shows how we've bullied our way through the world and the heinous actions we have committed. Pol Pot anyone?

It Is Time For Russia to Toughen Up

Russia’s policy of vowing not to defend any and all attacks on the Syrian Arab Republic as a shameful policy which ultimately exposes Russia as a country unwilling to take a stand for its ally, while also being a country that prioritises its short term interests over the longer term interest that both China and Russia have – that of containing the aggressive, criminal US hegemon.

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America is a psyop wearing a cowboy hat

Amanda Matthews's picture

and Emmanuel Macon’s family in unis and on the front lines. Since they’re whoring for the elite, they need so do the heavy work this time around. This world has seen enough plebs die for the benefit of 1%. Now it’s time for them & theirs to fight.

Once again a chicken shit draft dodger is a threat to us all.

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I'm tired of this back-slapping "Isn't humanity neat?" bullshit. We're a virus with shoes, okay? That's all we are. - Bill Hicks

Politics is the entertainment branch of industry. - Frank Zappa

snoopydawg's picture

@Amanda Matthews

for once.

This world has seen enough plebs die for the benefit of 1%. and Israel. Now it’s time for them & theirs to fight.

FIFY

Bibi called Trump after he said that he wanted to pull the troops out of Syria. This got Trump to back down. Besides, one reason we are in Syria is to build bases for the upcoming war with Iran. Bibi must have shit the brick when he heard Trump saying that he wanted to pull the troops out. E has worked too hard to get people in place for the Iran war and any wavering gives him the whillies.

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America is a psyop wearing a cowboy hat

Amanda Matthews's picture

@snoopydawg

748364F3-F2F3-4A84-A6CC-8EB3FA08E47D.jpeg
Israelis gathered on a hilltop outside the town of Sderot on Monday to watch the bombardment of Gaza.CreditAndrew Burton/Getty Images

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2014/07/15/world/middleeast/israelis-watch-bo...

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I'm tired of this back-slapping "Isn't humanity neat?" bullshit. We're a virus with shoes, okay? That's all we are. - Bill Hicks

Politics is the entertainment branch of industry. - Frank Zappa

jorogo's picture

@Amanda Matthews
I'm a draft dodger. I seriously doubt for the same reasons as Trump is, and it is the reason that counts. I wish we were all draft dodgers, and for the right reason.

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"If I sit silently, I have sinned." - Mossadegh

Amanda Matthews's picture

@jorogo

or one because you are anti-war? My guess is the latter.

Everyone I know/knew went in the service when they were called up, including my first husband (we ended up in Anchorage, AK) and my brother John (who ended up a sharpshooter in the Air Force stationed in Incirlik, Turkey). A couple came back in body bags. I won’t criticize the dead for doing what their government coerced them into.

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3 users have voted.

I'm tired of this back-slapping "Isn't humanity neat?" bullshit. We're a virus with shoes, okay? That's all we are. - Bill Hicks

Politics is the entertainment branch of industry. - Frank Zappa

SnappleBC's picture

@Amanda Matthews @Amanda Matthews

I agree. My son grew up surrounded by a culture of utter propaganda and lies, much of it perpetuated by me. So it seems hypocritical for me to fault him. For that matter, I spent a good 45 years of my life blinded by that same cloud of propaganda and lies. On what grounds would I criticize someone else for not understanding reality?

I agree. The fault is not with those at the bottom. I'm sharpening my knives for the ones at the top.

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A lot of wanderers in the U.S. political desert recognize that all the duopoly has to offer is a choice of mirages. Come, let us trudge towards empty expanse of sand #1, littered with the bleached bones of Deaniacs and Hope and Changers.
-- lotlizard

Amanda Matthews's picture

@SnappleBC

I could be all screwed up here but I don’t see it as being a ‘volunteer’ anything. I don’t know about you guys, but here our biggest ‘jobs’ programs are the military and the private prison industry. That’s thanks to The Empty Suit. When he came into office what we needed was a huge jobs program to bring us back from the abyss created by our ‘betters’ aka his ‘benefactors’. What we freaking got was a faulty healthcare coverage program that made us prisoners of Big Pharma and the healthcare coverage insurance industry.

That’s the reason for...

Army lifts ban on waivers for recruits with history of some mental health issues

WASHINGTON – People with a history of “self-mutilation,” bipolar disorder, depression and drug and alcohol abuse can now seek waivers to join the Army under an unannounced policy enacted in August, according to documents obtained by USA TODAY.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2017/11/12/army-lifts-ban-r...

I am NOT anti-military. But I AM against the way we use it against others.

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I'm tired of this back-slapping "Isn't humanity neat?" bullshit. We're a virus with shoes, okay? That's all we are. - Bill Hicks

Politics is the entertainment branch of industry. - Frank Zappa

I posted this comment on the Iraq article on the top of the page.

I am linking it here because it fits this topic

Syria Chemical Attack Staged?

This is hot off the press so lets see if it stands up for a day, a week, etc.

If it does turn out that this is staged, then the tactic of chemical attacks seems to be not working. A couple of weeks ago in UK and this one in Syria.

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Pluto's Republic's picture

@DonMidwest

...was also staged... and a false flag. As was the gas attack in 2013. So by the end of 2013, Assad managed to load all his chemical weapons onto Russian Navy ships. The chemical weapons were then transferred to American ships, where they were to be destroyed. In this way, the Syrian government could never be the victims of false flag sabotage, since they do not possess such weapons in the first place.

Surely, the US destroyed all the Syrian chemical weapons. They would never pass some of them back to ISIS and al Qaeda. Or pass them to the Rebels, du jour.

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cybrestrike's picture

...when Greenwald stated, without evidence, that Syria used chemical weapons. DN and Greenwald have been very problematic on this issue from the start.

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Yet, I've always respected Greenwald . . . up until this latest statement from him to which you point.

It has truly disappointed me.

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Pluto's Republic's picture

@SoylentGreenisPeople

Her name was Reality Winner.

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