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Open Thread - 23 July 2026 - Just Shoot 'Em...

Just Shoot 'Em...
That'll bring the salmon back! Yea!

So, over the 4th of July weekend, a seal pup was brought to an animal rescue known as SR3 SR3 (Sealife Response, Rehabilitation and Research). The pup was 3 weeks old. It had been shot in the head. It's the third seal shooting that has happened this year.

Unfortunately, bb/bullet fragments were found in the pup's brain. And, therefore, it was euthanized as it would never be able to survive in the wild with those fragments in its brain, and it was thought it would suffer for a long time before dying in the wild.


The little cutie that was shot: from the Bellingham Herald article linked above.

This rise in shooting is supposedly, according to the director of SR3, because of misunderstanding about how seals affect salmon recovery - some people seem to believe the seals are why there are not a lot of salmon along the WA state coast. (See link above and more below). Ummm... really? So supposedly these seal pups are being shot because seals eat salmon and we can't have that, can we? Of course, seals, at least in the Puget Sound area, DON'T eat a lot of salmon. They eat sole, flounder, sculpin, cod, herring, octopus, squid. Yea, not salmon.

As the article at the Seattle Aquarium site states:

Beyond their beguiling appearance, they (seals) are also barometers of the health of Puget Sound and sentinels of the well-being of the habitats in which they live. The reason for this is found in their diet: harbor seals eat sole, flounder, sculpin, cod, herring, octopus and squid—all links in a food chain that is increasingly vulnerable to pollution, development and other human activities.

Two House members from WA state are supporting a resolution which would

allow Washington and eligible tribal nations to kill a limited number of harbor seals and sea lions considered a threat to endangered salmon.

The legislation would expand Columbia River pinniped management, authorize a new five-year permit system for the lethal removal of harbor seals and sea lions in Washington marine waters, and invest in nonlethal pinniped deterrence technology.

Now, yes, sea lions, and seals, do go into the Columbia and prey on salmon which are trapped while waiting at dams, fish ladders, and more. And the government is already killing, err managing, those seals and sea lions.

But the Columbia River is not where these seals are being shot. That's in Bellingham, far north of the Columbia River, Hood Canal (west of Puget Sound and well north of the Columbia), and Quilcene (just off the Hood Canal). So, is this shooting really about salmon management and what the government seems to be saying about seals? Or is it a bunch of idiots with nothing better to do but shoot cute animals? Because the shooters aren't government officials - yet.

Can we at least investigate this?

Ok, Here's the open thread! What's up, whatcha doing? Reading? Thinking? Listening to? Remember, everything is interesting if you dive deep enough, so tell us about where you're diving!

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Sima's picture

Hope everyone is doing well. I have a bunch of family stuff to do today, so it'll be a full day. Luckily it'll probably be cooler than yesterday, which almost hit 90. Might have a thunderstorm though. What up with you all? Have a great day!

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If you're poor now, my friend, then you'll stay poor.
These days, only the rich get given more. -- Martial book 5:81, c. AD 100 or so
Nothing ever changes -- Sima, c. AD 2020 or so

QMS's picture

.
The loons were very vociferous last night.
And the heron looked a bit hungover on the raft this AM.
But it's a beautiful day. Shame about the shot seals.

Thanks for the OT.

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Zionism is a social disease

Sima's picture

@QMS
Ours was good after we got home. Before that, a long day doing family stuff. Still, after we got home, sitting outside in the sun, with a cool wind blowing, listening to the birds... it was nice!

Thanks for stopping by!

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3 users have voted.

If you're poor now, my friend, then you'll stay poor.
These days, only the rich get given more. -- Martial book 5:81, c. AD 100 or so
Nothing ever changes -- Sima, c. AD 2020 or so

Dawn's Meta's picture

something I have thought about a lot.

I have seen Sea Lions lined up across Siletz Bay waiting for returning Salmon. And I have been up against the rocks in Barkley Sound, Vancouver Island, watching my good looking Salmon on a hook grabbed by a Sea Lion and taken to the rocks, tossed into the air much like a cat with a mouse.

There is a recurring theme with Wolves, wild horses, ironically, deer, and many other animals. When the system is out of balance, many species are seen as a problem and targeted. You are right, shooting them is not the answer.

The problem I have with all of this is the Bambi syndrome, where there are no natural predators and more deer are born and live than the environment can sustain. I have seen undernourished deer which are also too small giving birth to babies they can't raise. It is heartbreaking. They are not thriving and suffer.

One of the most successful recoveries is the example of Wolves returning to Yellowstone. The Elk and Deer are culled by Wolves and save the riparian zones of local rivers and streams leading to regreening, and dechanneling the rivers. Stream bank restoration is leading to return of many plants, insects, birds, reptiles, and mammals.

Lately, the reintroduction of Beavers is adding to the success of slowing river drainage and environmental improvement. The Elk and Deer are healthier and stronger. Their numbers are reduced and more in balance with their environment.

The removal of dams on many rivers: Hood River, Condit Dam on the White Salmon on the Columbia in Washington; Klamath system dams.

In France:
Dam removal in France

The striking thing to me is the speed of recovery if the return of migrating fish, like Salmon are considered success. Predictions often range from three to ten years for return of Salmon. Surpisingly, some return as soon as six months. As if they were just waiting for their river to be put right.

Health of the eco system is seemingly the key to rebalancing the various species.

While there is success with the examples here we also have the eternal fear of Wolves and the reintroduction of allowed hunting. The role of keystone animals is not understood or tolerated.

I wish for better.

And I wish for more contact with nature not less. Get into the woods, take a walk outdoors, feel the trees and rivers, and the salt spray.

I am sad and have hope at the same time.

Thank you Sima.

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A society grows great when old men plant trees in whose shade they know they shall never sit. Allegedly Greek, but more possibly fairly modern quote.

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Sima's picture

@Dawn's Meta
Your comment was really good. I didn't think about mentioning the recovery of so much after the wolves were allowed back into Yellowstone and could keep the deer and elk under some control. And other examples. I am so thankful you put these in the comment for us. Thank you!

I too am both sad and hopeful at the same time, which is weird. Driving home from my parents' today, they live in a small town where one of the seals was murdered, I noticed, once again, the absence of bugs on the windshield. It feels strange to want them to come back, but I sure do. The bugs' absence is a sign of how bad things have gotten, I think. Makes me sad. I'm ready for them to come back!

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4 users have voted.

If you're poor now, my friend, then you'll stay poor.
These days, only the rich get given more. -- Martial book 5:81, c. AD 100 or so
Nothing ever changes -- Sima, c. AD 2020 or so

janis b's picture

@Dawn's Meta

Your thoughts and experience are deeply valued. Trusting that your love of nature and its tenacity will endure is comforting and serene.

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Well, the shooter should have his/her gun taken away for being cruel, stupid, and a bad shot.
I had a chance to go to Alaska, but declined. There was a big seal clubbing scandal occurring at the time.
Thursday is my Friday at the office. Off I go to see if I can close out a few more ongoing cases.
Take care of he family, sima, and thanks for the OT!

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"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981

Sima's picture

@on the cusp
That works for me too! I like it Smile . Hope you got a lot of cases closed out and it all went well. As for Alaska, I once wanted to go too, but... naw. I couldn't contribute to even more people being there, forcing the animals out. And, although I've lived by an ocean my hole life, where ever that was (Pacific, Atlantic, English Channel, Mediterranean), I don't like sea food. Weird of me!

Have a great weekend!

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3 users have voted.

If you're poor now, my friend, then you'll stay poor.
These days, only the rich get given more. -- Martial book 5:81, c. AD 100 or so
Nothing ever changes -- Sima, c. AD 2020 or so

@Sima @Sima I am highly allergic to iodine. Even is fresh water fish would be safe for me to eat, I can't even stand the smell of them, whether being cooked, or already cooked.
Dining out t a seafood restaurant is iffy. I ask for seating that gives me the best chance for fresh air.
I have several friends that live in, or have lived in, Alaska. Other than a natural tendency for neighbors there to be friendly and helpful, all knowing they need each other in tough times, I would be pretty bored there. I am not one to intrude unnecessarily with wildlife. Also, $50 for a 12 pack of beer isn't appealing!

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"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981

Sima's picture

@on the cusp
Yikes!!!

I can't stand the smell of seafood, or fresh water fish, either. I never thought about being allergic to iodine but maybe that's it. For me though, I remember as a young kid swimming in a little bay along the coast from San Francisco to Santa Cruz. I was maybe 7 or so. And a fishing/processing boat pulled up next to the beach where all us kids were, and it dumped all it's crap (fish parts, innards, rotten bits, whatever) into the ocean about 10 feet away from me. The smell, the gunk, trying to get it all off of us so we didn't stink, and failing badly! Luckily there were showers at the bathrooms on the beach (which was state owed, the fishing boat was too close, as the captain later said in an apology to my parents). When I smell that fish smell, even tuna fish in a can (which my parents used for making dinner and lunch for a long time, because, cheap! - and I wouldn't eat it - learned to like a lot of fruits and veg!), I think of all that gunk and rotten stuff. Gag!

Glad to know there is another good person out there who hates fish like I do. I always thought that made me even weirder than I normally am Smile Smile

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2 users have voted.

If you're poor now, my friend, then you'll stay poor.
These days, only the rich get given more. -- Martial book 5:81, c. AD 100 or so
Nothing ever changes -- Sima, c. AD 2020 or so

enhydra lutris's picture

who attack marine mammals in dfense of this of that fish, crustacean or mollusk population. If the population they think they are protecting has declined due to predation, then the predator polulation will crash and the prey population will recover. Almost invariably, they are wrong about the cause of the decline. As DM pointed out, restoration of ecosystem balance is the best answer.

For example, a healthy and productive nearshore environment is enormously facilitated by Kelp forests. What fosters and protects kelp forests. Sea Otters. Yhey do take some mollusks, but if you want the mollusk population to boom yu need a seriously healthy kelp forest, which you will not have if sea urchins are not kept in check, and the number one predator of said urchins are otters.

be well and have a gooe one

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10 users have voted.

That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

@enhydra lutris
to know one.

enhydra lutris = Sea otter

I've seen you write about your cooking and recipes but I've yet to see urchins on the menu. How do you deal with the spines?

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enhydra lutris's picture

@JtC

so, i'e bet ...yep, there are a couple of you tubes on it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kBOsZSSC3b8 Wink

the other one appears to be a reddit or part thereof.

be well and have a good one

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6 users have voted.

That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

usefewersyllables's picture

@enhydra lutris

You go to the local Asian specialty store and get 'em already shucked, in a cool little wooden tray that costs a bloody fortune. Otherwise, it is crack, scoop and nosh- but the spines are an inordinate pain in the ass (or the foot, more usually). No other ingredients needed...

I loves me some uni. Thank Gawd the local H-Mart carries it from time to time...

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Twice bitten, permanently shy.

Sima's picture

@enhydra lutris
are necessary, and have to be conserved and perhaps even expanded in places they have been destroyed. Go sea otters! Heh Smile And 'restoration of ecosystem balance' is indeed the answer to all of this.

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4 users have voted.

If you're poor now, my friend, then you'll stay poor.
These days, only the rich get given more. -- Martial book 5:81, c. AD 100 or so
Nothing ever changes -- Sima, c. AD 2020 or so

is now conditioned upon Saudi joining the Abraham Accords. The deal is already signed. The Saudis have refused to enter the Abraham Accords unless and until Israel recognized the State of Palestine.
Any country signing an agreement with the US is retarded.
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/trump-adds-new-condition-to-saudi-nuc...

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8 users have voted.

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981

@on the cusp

suppress the glee as she lies to reporters about the Saudi nuclear deal.

The key part of the tweet:

White House: Our deal with Saudi Arabia puts America first.

Also too:

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7 users have voted.

@humphrey must be proud.

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6 users have voted.

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981

Sima's picture

@on the cusp
make me laugh. Thanks!

up
2 users have voted.

If you're poor now, my friend, then you'll stay poor.
These days, only the rich get given more. -- Martial book 5:81, c. AD 100 or so
Nothing ever changes -- Sima, c. AD 2020 or so

Sima's picture

@humphrey
But you are right, she can't suppress the glee. Gack. So gross.

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3 users have voted.

If you're poor now, my friend, then you'll stay poor.
These days, only the rich get given more. -- Martial book 5:81, c. AD 100 or so
Nothing ever changes -- Sima, c. AD 2020 or so

Perhaps he could have included 2026?

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7 users have voted.

@humphrey Could he be referring to Epstein files?
Oh, surely not...

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7 users have voted.

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981

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5 users have voted.

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981

Sima's picture

@on the cusp
But, it makes sense, sadly. Hubby and I were talking about how ICE has started out attacking people with 'weird' names (hispanic, muslim...) but how they'll expand to people with normal names after everyone gets 'tired' of hearing about ICE. Very Nazi.

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4 users have voted.

If you're poor now, my friend, then you'll stay poor.
These days, only the rich get given more. -- Martial book 5:81, c. AD 100 or so
Nothing ever changes -- Sima, c. AD 2020 or so

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@humphrey Elections can be cancelled during a war.
Damned convenient.

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"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981

@on the cusp

behind for well over a year and Bibi is likely going to attempt to do the same thing shortly.

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consequences.

The rest of the tweet:

Bahrain’s AWS was specifically developed to serve governments, financial institutions, and enterprises throughout the Gulf. The Bahraini government has migrated the overwhelming majority of its government data and services to AWS infrastructure since its launch in 2019.

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8 users have voted.

@humphrey yesterday, and admit to doing the Happy Dance.

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"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981

The interceptors and bombs must be running low.

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QMS's picture

@humphrey
.
the US already screwed the pooch.
Ammo is in short supply. So trumpet noise
means nothing. Threats and bluster will not
solve his pickle. Iran knows this and bibi is quiet.

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Zionism is a social disease

his country becomes a target of Iran.

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janis b's picture

and for the thought and consideration it inspires. It presents a question I am eternally confronted with, even after all the years of consideration.

I used to stop if I was walking or driving, to move little creatures crossing the path or the road, thinking they were too vulnerable to misfortune to be there. When a respected friend and great nature lover said something I thought quite wise, it made me reconsider. He said, “How do you know that if you move the frog or turtle out of the way, you might not be putting them in danger from another kind of predator?”. I still always have that question in the back of my mind.

Here are some of my random thoughts about the predicament from over the years, which is still not fully resolved, but then how can anything be fully resolved?

There is an ancient Puriri tree that has been my constant companion and great pleasure for a very long time. It is majestic, and provides abundant nourishment and comfort for the endemic Tui and Kereru. What to do about the introduced Rosella and Myna birds who sometimes compete with the Tui and Kereru in the tree? My early reaction was wanting to make them go away, so I threw some small rocks hoping this foreign object passing in front of them would make them fly away, but no, they stood their ground. After a short time I realised that their presence didn’t really seem to make a difference to the number of Tui and Kereru who kept coming. Their greater predators are the possum and rat which eat their eggs, and which the council and locals work at eradicating. Shockingly the council still uses the toxic poison of 1080 in some ranges, but their practice now also uses more trapping to reduce the rats and possums, and stoats. NZ, being an island quite removed from most of the world has a lot invested in preserving its unique nature, whose practices I sometimes think are okay, and sometimes really question.

Plant life also presents a dilemma many times for me. I recently noticed a native vine that was starting to strangle a side of the ancient Puriri. What to do? I decided, because of the age of the tree and the generous offerings and pleasure it has given for hundreds of years, to ask my friend to see if he could locate the base of the vine and cut it, for the dignity of the tree. Because the vine trails along the ground great distances crawling up and around whatever it finds, the effort was only partly successful, so I'll let it go, and hope it works out in the best interest of survival.

Maybe if I live long enough I’ll know the right way? In the end, I think I just have to trust in a benevolent spirit that will guide the way between nature and man, as challenging as that is.

I wish you and your family well, Sima

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Sima's picture

@janis b
can be a huge dilemma at times, when it comes to nature. I always do this. If *I* or other humans, are the reason why a frog crossing a road might die (from being run over) then I 'save' it by moving it to the side of the road. However, if it's crossing a trail in the forest, it can stay. In other words, if a human or human made thing/process etc could kill it, I'll save it. Heck I even move spiders, moths, worms, caterpillars and so on, in the garden on my farm. If I'm walking down a path and I'll run into a spider web, I just carefully move it to the side, so the spider can reconstruct it quickly. I just try to be as gentle as possible. When coyotes would kill my goats, (not super often, but once in a while they would take an old goat), instead of shooting the coyotes, I worked to protect the goats better. Haven't had a coyote take one for years, although the coyotes are around the farm almost every night.

Anyway, thank you so much for stopping by and for the great comment. Enjoy the Puriri tree and the birds!

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5 users have voted.

If you're poor now, my friend, then you'll stay poor.
These days, only the rich get given more. -- Martial book 5:81, c. AD 100 or so
Nothing ever changes -- Sima, c. AD 2020 or so

janis b's picture

@Sima

I agree that what registers inside as gentleness, is a good guide.

I probably should have written footpath, which is what I was thinking of. If it were a path in the woods or on a trail I would just stopped to say hi frog; ).

Cheers Sima

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