It's Time to Boycott Daily Kos (if you aren't already)

Hi there everyone.

I know this won't be easy for some people to hear, but it's time, way past time in my opinion, for all of us to stop visiting Daily Kos. I know many of us have friends that still post there, many of whom are also members here, fighting the good fight over there. I know we all love the Bernie New Roundup posted by liepardestin, and the diaries OPOL puts up, and the many other diaries that fight back against the crapfest into which Daily Kos has descended. I understand that some may still feel a smidgen of hope that someone there reading the few remaining voices still posting on Bernie's behalf at TOP will see the light. But folks, I'm here today to say that those are just fantasies and magical thinking. The worm has turned and the law of diminishing returns has long since flat lined at the house the Great Orange Satan Built (how's that for some mixed metaphors?).

On a more personal note, Markos Moulitisas has used me as a commodity to be bought and sold long enough. He received credit for some important diaries I wrote there, using my name and the name of hundreds of other great writers to market himself and his brand of online "progressive" hucksterism.

He sold ads based on my dropping by so often to read other diaries by so many good and wonderful writers, informative diaries about climate change, race relations, the never-ending war on terror, and other topics as well, such as new books to read, animals, gardening, fostering a sustainable lifestyle, and people in need of our help. Diaries that related heartwarming stories and diaries filled with the righteous anger we all have experienced as we watched the ongoing collapse of our democracy.

And Markos sold my information to whomever he pleased so that my email can be bombarded each day with useless appeals for money, or an incessant stream of petitions that just have to be signed by me ASAP in order to save the world, petitions that make you feel good at first until you realize they are as likely to effect real change as a single raindrop on Mars is going to turn that barren world into a paradise. Well, as I said, Markos has used and abused me long enough. I'm done helping him keep his kids in nice clothes and their rooms filled with shiny new toys, not to mention whatever the hell he does with the rest of his ill gotten gains.

No more money from me for the biggest con man in the progressive blogosphere. Indeed, we should not only be boycotting his site, but we should be encouraging our friends and family and anyone who follows us on social media not to waste their time at his "community," if only to lower their blood pressure and prevent early onset dementia. His cult of personality and his addiction to authoritarian style practices in censoring voices with which he disagrees (yeah, yeah, it's his blog and his rules - I get it) provide no added value of any kind to my life, nor do they to yours, unless you like to be spoon fed the highest quality DNC propaganda available on the planet.

We have this place now. A better place. A healthier community. Certainly a far more welcoming and civil one. And many of the same fine writers you used to go to Daily Kos to read each day you can find here now, and I hope that more of them will migrate to this little oasis in our nation's vast political wasteland where the game of "politics as usual" is killing our planet as well as our souls.

Obviously, I can't impose a ban on those of you who still feel the need to travel back to Professor Markos' Mystical Magisterium of Malicious Manure. And I have no desire to shun those of you who still feel certain sentimental ties to people you know and care about who still post there, or those of you who still frequent that shit house to troll the sheep Kos continues to shear. You are free to do as you choose and I have no right to demand otherwise, or try to shame you or insult you into doing what I think is for your own good. Because hey, what's right for me isn't necessarily right for you, and I'm not quite arrogant enough to think I'm never wrong.

But I can ask all of you to give the idea of severing ties with Daily Kos all the due and proper consideration it deserves. Sleep on it if you like.

Thanks for your time,

Steven D

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Solidarity forever

Bookmarked that link! I'm in awe that you came over.

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I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.

Cassiodorus's picture

Nonsexist usage.

Oh and:

https://cassiodorusblog.wordpress.com/about/

All your Daily Kos Cassiodorus diaries (except for the ones to which I said bye forever) in one convenient spot!

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"there's something so especially sadistic about waving the flag of a country that you're actively destroying" -- Aaron Mate

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riverlover's picture

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Hey! my dear friends or soon-to-be's, JtC could use the donations to keep this site functioning for those of us who can still see the life preserver or flotsam in the water.

The Ides of Kos proclamation was so excessive I was convinced there is no going back. This election you are with the 99 Percent or the 1 Percent. Kos picked the 1 Percent.

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"We've done the impossible, and that makes us mighty."

like many 1 percenters, he thinks his little wad of money will protect them 20-30 years from now when shit hits the fan.

nuh-uh. electing a neocon like clinton means we will not avert the brunt of war and climate change and inequality. he's helping deliver a shittier world that even his privileged kids won't be able to escape from.

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did 9 months in California prison, because Neoliberal Democrats and GOP maggots work together to profit off the drug war

riverlover's picture

I think we are now living with fans shitting back.

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Hey! my dear friends or soon-to-be's, JtC could use the donations to keep this site functioning for those of us who can still see the life preserver or flotsam in the water.

gulfgal98's picture

made me laugh out loud! Lol

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Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?

“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy

The nail in the coffin of democracy. If your democratically elected government does something that costs a corporation money, even if it's just banning toxic dumping, that corporation can sue for loss of profits. No malice needed, just prove lost profits.

Banning of country of origin labeling. About half the fish in my local supermarket is labelled with "Origin - China". That will go away, so will any fish not from China as the price is half or one third US fish, whether wild caught or farm raised.

More job devastation. More pollution. more "donations" to the Clinton Foundation.

This thing is so bad that I don't have the luxury of voting for Jill Stein. I must vote for Trump because he has a chance to stop it.

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I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.

Martha Pearce-Smith's picture


"I must vote for Trump because he has a chance to stop it."

I am struck speechless.

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First Nations News

But protest votes for Jill Stein will just put Hillary into the White House. Show me a viable alternative and I will gladly switch. The Clintons have to be stopped at all costs. Trump is the only viable anti-TPP candidate. I don't trust him. I think he is incompetent. But he has a major party nomination. That makes him viable. Jill Stein, like Trump, has never held public office. She is incompetent too. Bernie was our best bet, but the electoral math says he has to take 90% of the California vote and with no cheating by state election officials. Ain't gonna happen. New York sealed his fate. Nevada was the nail in the coffin lid.

Do you think I like doing this?

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I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.

Martha Pearce-Smith's picture

So, the choice is between our moral values and "winning". Is that it? Is that all we are left with?

What if this time we all voted our moral values all at the same time? Yeah, I know...it isn't "practical" thinking....

But in my opinion, it is progressive thinking....

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First Nations News

The next president will be Hillary or Trump. Scylla or Charybdis.

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I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.

CambridgePulsar1919's picture

I was prepared to vote Green, and still am...but...

$$Hillary will pass TPP.
She'll use the same tactic she used to switch from opposing to supporting 'bankruptcy reform'. She'll pick some niggling detail, have the media sell it as the 'main stumbling-block to approval', and then 'fix' that stumbling block.
Viola !!!
TPP can now be passed !!!
Democracy for the 99 percent will be dead, as will any hope of a decent future as anything but slaves to some corporate-fascist government lifted straight out of sci-fi, a la 'Alien' or some shit.
I'm also pretty convinced that $$Hillary is much more likely to get us into a shooting war with Russia, because she seems to be suffering from some sort of political version of penis envy.
I'm usually pretty good at analogies, but in this case the only one I can think of is: my nation is a runaway automobile, and I can either choose to crash it hard now (Trump), or let it continue to accelerate ($$Hillary) to a speed that will mean certain death for every passenger when it finally leaves the road.
I haven't decided what to do.
Part of me wants to do nothing, and hope that the lessons learned from a horrible Hillary Presidency, and demographic change, might save us in the nick of time.
But what if the awful early consequences of climate change and corporate-govt fascism result in an angry populace that moves even farther to the right? And things just keep accelerating....
I'm terrified right now; about Philly, about everything to come from this election cycle.
Wearing a 'Don't blame me, I voted for Bernie' T-shirt won't immunize me from what's to come.
What do I do?

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there isn't a single right or wrong answer this year.

it's a fucking disgrace.

clinto vs trump is a farce.

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did 9 months in California prison, because Neoliberal Democrats and GOP maggots work together to profit off the drug war

I don't trust Trump to do what he says he'll do about trade, but I'm mortally certain Hillary's going to sell out what little is left of our democracy to the rich. What a hell of a predicament.

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Twain Disciple

Alphalop's picture

But in all honesty, I have reached the conclusion that a Trump presidency would likely be less damaging in the long term.

I don't think either side of congress would ever ratify any of his truly nutty ideas, but I do think he would actually fight against unfair trade deals like the TPP and I think he is also likely to be less likely to get us involved in another war.

How fucking pathetic is that? The Goddamn DNC has pushed a candidate on us that is so bad that many of us are actually having to seriously consider the tactical advantages of voting for that orange ass hat of an Oompa Loompa...

The DNC has completely disgusted me this season... I would expect this kind of shit from the RNC, but from what I thought was MY party?

Let's just say my faith in the Democratic Party has been completely shattered, but rather than retreat into despondency I want to take the fight to them.

We need to build a NEW Progressive Party and have a large number of candidates from it fighting for vulnerable seats throughout the nation from the city/county level on up.

If we can keep the momentum going that we have built going into this primary I am quite confident we can do so and then have us in a solid position for ballot access in all 50 states for the 2020 presidential primary.

We MUST do this. There is no other choice open to us anymore.

The Democratic Party has made it abundantly clear that they don't want to support progressive issues and field progressive candidates.

Since EVERY poll and survey conducted has shown that the American people in general strongly support progressive ideals and agendas we can absolutely bring in many of them if we have a party with a clean political slate and a clear platform.

Lets not look at this situation as a bad thing but as a good thing. Sure, it would have been great if we could have taken the Democratic Party back to it's root beliefs and ideals, but that just isn't going to happen and it is best that we learn it now rather than later.

The Poor, the middle class and the very planet itself don't have time for us to dick around, we gotta do it, and do it now.

So GO TEAM! lol! (I just realized after re-reading this how much it sounded like a cliche locker room at halftime speech to the team that is behind. )

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"I used to vote Republican & Democrat, I also used to shit my pants. Eventually I got smart enough to stop doing both things." -Me

in 2020.

there will be no end to the calls for us to kneel....for years and years to come.

you can't compare this election to 2008, because at least hillary partisans had the consolation prize of an obama presidency.

but a hillary presidency? that's not a consolation prize. it's a punishment.

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did 9 months in California prison, because Neoliberal Democrats and GOP maggots work together to profit off the drug war

ngant17's picture

that was generated by her evil intent: to be an imperial US war-lord. Her greedy campaign money-grubbing. Her track record for subverting humanity's social progress thru various Kissinger-style coup detats.

Any vote for Hillary will cause the pervasive bad karma to infest the next human spirit-form. It's not worth it. Don't poison your soul by buying into the trumped-up dichotomy of a lesser evil. Doing the right thing is not becoming an accessory to evil.

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switching gears into a state where I start thinking, huh, maybe Trump is a better choice. Am I going mad? Or is it the world that is going mad? Or both?

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The earth is a multibillion-year-old sphere.
The Nazis killed millions of Jews.
On 9/11/01 a Boeing 757 (AA77) flew into the Pentagon.
AGCC is happening.
If you cannot accept these facts, I cannot fake an interest in any of your opinions.

Sometimes, there is no good choice.

Best choice is if they read Bernie out of the party, then he is free to run Indie.
This is what happened with T.R. and the Bull Moose Party. It resulted in the other party being elected. Remember the stink about Nader? it never died, did it? I don't want Bernie remembered like that. Better that he be remembered as T.R. But most important that Hillary go down. Be put down like a mad dog, I should say. Her election validates every slimy thing they did.

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I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.

I suspect that the TPP will be passed and signed before the next Congress and Administration are seated. The votes may well be there since fast track has been passed, the TPA signed and the election over. Of course Obama will sign the thing, it's his baby. HRC opposes a lame duck vote which means exactly nothing.

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Thaumlord-Exelbirth's picture

going to the Daily Ugly a while ago (since I got NR status for flagging a diary that was literally nothing but baseless slander), aside from the occasional popping over to rec diaries advertised over here. Thinking that's going to be stopping soon.

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moneysmith's picture

because I don't like the idea of someone who knows one of the service members not being able to see the piece. But it is so toxic over there, I think I'll just post them on a Word Press blog and delete everything there. I do not want my name associated with that ugliness.

Thanks for the kick in the pants, Steven! I needed that!!

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Hell is empty and all the devils are here. William Shakespeare

Pluto's Republic's picture

…were it me. They really are part of a living history.

Taken as a whole, they send a message to the future.

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____________________

The political system is what it is because the People are who they are. — Plato
moneysmith's picture

Probably best to leave them, log out and never go back. C99 and Reddit/Kossacks are way less stressful.

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Hell is empty and all the devils are here. William Shakespeare

but find a new hosting site for the ones we'll need for Clinton's war(s).

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LeChienHarry's picture

blog. Our content is there at the owner's whim.

I am glad you wrote this. The community groups, enviro and eco groups and writers are my greatest loss.

The Quilt Sisters are here; some of the best finance writers are here; astute political writers are here.

If someone knows the best way to copy out diaries of such a huge and wonderful group like IGTNT, please give the writer some help. These are a priceless testimony to history, service and community.

I belong to an active group and don't know how to withdraw without letting them down. I'm now checking comment threads to see if I would hurt anyone who doesn't perceive another place to go.

I have loved my work at TOP and felt at one time privileged to be a part of something important. Not paid!

This helped me because of the large investment that would be left. That's why I'm urging both solutions: leave the historical content there, but copy them out to your own control. Give us a link if you are so inclined to your blog.

Maybe that is a good template for any community group. The group I'm in has it's own closed forum for discussion, training, history and teambuilding.

The only downside of taking out content is the inability so far, of taking comments out or comment threads. For me some of the most priceless bits are the comment threads in my own diaries as well as those of members I have followed for a long time.

History and community have been built at TOP and that is being trashed and thrown away. I think subtly many of us thought of it like a church: a sacred place. I know, naive. But still I can see many of the community groups have had that feeling.

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You may choose to look the other way, but you can never say again you did not know. ~ William Wiberforce

If you can donate, please! POP Money is available for bank-to-bank transfers. Email JtC to make a monthly donation.

make sure you have them copied and on a site you control. They are history, and it would be best to have them on another site, for many reasons, one being you have control of them. I'd hate to see them disappear, for whatever reason.

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IGTNT will be missed over there and once people learn they still exist over here, it will bring people to our site.

I just said "our" site. wow. That's how much better it is here.

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gulfgal98's picture

If I were you, I would not think of those as your diaries, but the diaries of the families of the people you wrote about. Please leave those diaries up.

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Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?

“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy

HoosierDeb's picture

mostly hanging in there for BNR, OPOL & a few others. I was gifted a lifetime subscription a few years ago which has played into the mix. I think the hardest thing to have watched is the deterioration of good writing on the recent list. I used to be a Rescue Ranger, so it's painful to see what used to be an incubator, of sorts, for new voices turned into such a petty, vindictive shadow of itself. I don't envy those handling Community Spotlight. It's got to be sheer hell reading some of that dreck.

Anyway, after the NV Convention ambush and the gleefully nasty smears, I'm done. I will stay to support the Oregon liveblog that's sure to appear in a bit. Once I log out of there tonight, however, that's it.

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Despair is NOT an option!

if anything needs rescuing now, it's those Rangers.

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did 9 months in California prison, because Neoliberal Democrats and GOP maggots work together to profit off the drug war

Cassiodorus's picture

The server's still too small! I've been blocked today already.

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"there's something so especially sadistic about waving the flag of a country that you're actively destroying" -- Aaron Mate

I got frustrated so I went to dk to read LD's live blog. We'll need to ask JtC what he needs to do it. We may all have to chip in again. Remember this site is ad free and Johnny and now progdog are donating their time. We need to donate what we can afford. I donate $100 each year Even though I'm a lifetime member at dk, he does charge others $99 a year.

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"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon

riverlover's picture

tempted to make it monthly but I am staring at litigation in Canada which will require funds I do not have. I had a phone conversation yesterday that left me lying on a tile floor feeling nauseous. I appreciate c99p.

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Hey! my dear friends or soon-to-be's, JtC could use the donations to keep this site functioning for those of us who can still see the life preserver or flotsam in the water.

Only what you can afford. Thank you for being a member and donating. I know he/we greatly appreciate everybit.

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"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon

Big Al's picture

How about boycotting the Democratic party? That's what needs to be done. Daily Kos ain't shit.

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lotlizard's picture

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elenacarlena's picture

against Bernie. If they go to the convention with similar numbers and Hill is anointed and Bern ignored, then I'm done with the Dem party too.

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Please check out Pet Vet Help, consider joining us to help pets, and follow me @ElenaCarlena on Twitter! Thank you.

WindDancer13's picture

to write what you have said so much better.

I would add one thing: This site addresses progressive issues. DK is not a progressive site by any stretch of the imagination, so why do so many here feel a need to discuss DK here? If we spent as much time and energy addressing the non-progressive mainstream media that is burying democracy, we would be far better off.

DK deserves no more attention here than does Rush Limbaugh. I don't see five diaries a day here discussing Limbaugh, so why DK?

My 2 cents.

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We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit.--Aristotle
If there is no struggle there is no progress.--Frederick Douglass

lotlizard's picture

We’re like a VA for veterans of the blog wars here. Like the real VA, our facilities are open to veterans who, for therapeutic reasons, need to get together and talk about who and what traumatized them.

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mimi's picture

afflicted with post-DK blog war PTSD, but also real war PTSD. And I believe what traumatized them in both wars might come sometimes from overlapping or similar issues.

The differences I see that post-DK blog war PTSD is more personally related to certain posters by whom they feel abused or misused or ridiculed or put down.

In general I hope people can work on those feelings and overcome them. Distraction is working, like gardening, listening to music, art and all around craftsman activities. Triggering discussions have not always a positive effect. You try to flee from what is haunting you, I think. It's hard to "talk it away".
But may be talking helps as well.

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riverlover's picture

I am feeling assaulted. I have lived in the same physical location for 30 years. I saw this house being built, saw the second part being built, 2 cats, 5 dogs, two children walk through the doors. Change all around. Family of 4 here, a family of 4 down the road tortured and killed and I saw the killer's back. My husband died, a drawn-out long death. My memories are a quilt with no comfort, on the bad days. Yes, I have PTSD. I work in and admire my garden, which I attempt to make "natural", let the woods overtake the land I help strip. My mother is in a dementia with no short-term memory. Groundhog minutes. Far away. I could not tolerate seeing groundhog minutes all the time. She asks me to recreate her memories of her youth, points in time when I did not exist. So I am asked, implicitly, to make up stories. About my mother, who lived through the Great Depression and WWII when I did not exist.

Talking it away helps form it into words. It doesn't make it disappear.

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mimi's picture

Talking it away helps form it into words. It doesn't make it disappear.

True. But talking it out til all the words you could find are used and til you are out of words helps exhausting you, which is the beginning of putting you and your thoughts to rest ... for a while ... til all is triggered up again. Working to avoid the triggers is what many try to do. Blogging is often the opposite of it. It triggers all sorts of emotions. It's a two-sided sword, you look for healing among a group of virtual voices and find being wounded again and again. That's the problem. Forgetting something can be a blessing. Forgetting is not happening on blogs, they are in existence to make you aware of things, you may already sense and know. That would be the opposite of "putting things behind you and forgetting them". Sometimes I believe that political blogging prolongs the symptoms of PTSD. Why would the symptoms of PTSD become often much stronger the more time has passed? Because the online conversations on blogs and the force of archives that enables everybody to bring past events and words and images constantly back into your conscience, prevents you from "letting it go and letting it fade away". I think that is dangerous in itself.

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Alphalop's picture

It helps with PTSD & with going over to the GOS. Smile

Seriously, if I smoke first, then go there I get amused by how pathetic the hateful rhetoric is rather than pissed.

The problem only comes if I am still there when it wears off, lol! Smile

All kidding aside though, there has been tremendous anecdotal and scientific evidence showing that cannabis therapy can be extremely effective for treating PTSD suffers as either an additive to their existing medication regimen or in many cases as a complete substitution.

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"I used to vote Republican & Democrat, I also used to shit my pants. Eventually I got smart enough to stop doing both things." -Me

thanatokephaloides's picture

This site addresses progressive issues. DK is not a progressive site by any stretch of the imagination, so why do so many here feel a need to discuss DK here?

Because DK repeatedly claims to be the premier progressive blogsite, for starters. This makes it constitute a significant part of "the non-progressive mainstream media that is burying democracy", to use your exact words. Moreover, we here at c99p are not just a genuine community, but the selfsame genuine community that operated out of DK for many a long year until we were shoved out into the cold because we would not sell ourselves out the way Kos sold DK (and himself) out. This is also a perfectly valid progressive community issue, it still impacts us, and therefore it is appropriate for us to be discussing that problem here where the bulk of that community now exists. This very essay is a critical part of that discussion. And our essayist's point is well taken: not only do we need to cut our ties there, but we need to do all we can to get all that is still worthwhile from there to migrate here, where it belongs -- and then to cut its ties over there, as well.

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"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar

"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides

Big Al's picture

the purpose of this blog at this point in time is Revolution. It's either to continue Bernie's revolution as so many on here are setting up for, or forging forth with a another kind of revolution if Bernie abandons and gets behind Hillary. From that perspective, it has nothing to do with Daily Kos and should have nothing to do with Daily Kos. Daily Kos is irrelevant to the Revolution except that its part of the opposition. There's plenty of opposition.

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lotlizard's picture

In an earlier comment, I drew an analogy between Markos and the Nevada Democratic party’s Roberta Lange.

If we had fully understood that DK is just a “microGOSm” of actual existing Democratic party culture — the corrupt milieu surrounding Rahm Emanuel would be another — then no one would have been surprised at how Roberta Lange abused the power of her office at the Nevada state Democratic party convention.

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stands in contrast to the bombastic propaganda put out ny nevada party accusing bernie of sabotage.

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did 9 months in California prison, because Neoliberal Democrats and GOP maggots work together to profit off the drug war

WaterLily's picture

But I honestly can't abandon LieparDestin.

I just can't.

If he were to move his diaries here, they'd lose their impact. As it is, he consistently performs at the top for that measurement on GOS -- which, I like to believe, MUST give Kos, and his $hillary minions, agita.

So, I will visit GOS for the BNR, and the BNR only. I've slipped up in the past, but today was the last straw. You, OPOL, TomP and many other kindred souls have already started migrating their content here, for which I'm so grateful. Once the BNR finds a new home with equal impact, I am SO gone from DailyKos.

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But other than that, no reason to read it. And after BNR is done, no reason to go there.

I'm not even angry anymore. Hard to care. Just a blog.

It will do fine. Many people want to belong and Kos gives them that. They are not going to disappear.

Funny it was Bob Johnson who did the unity dance. Many people will stay, and that's fine.

I actually did a unity post a couple weeks ago, made the rec list, but was not noticed. Just quoted Bernie about doing everything he could to defeat Trump.

That they lost me should say something. I was a " good kossak" with over 1000 recommended posts, diaries, stories.

But if you look at that list, many of the good writers left long ago. Remember Jerome aParis? Nyceve?

It will be here in 4 years doing the same dance.

Someone suggested that I stay, said it would get better after the election. Good person, sincere. A few days ago and I told that person privately that I planned to stay. But even before Kos's war on Bernie supporters today, I already was thinking of leaving.

I kept wondering why I would continue to help build an institution that would always fight against real change. Made no sense.

I was told that Competitors always fail, that a year from now no one would be here. Maybe so, but this whole blogging thing has gotten old with me.

Being "TomP" became a pain in the ass.

So I may hang out here and comment a while.

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Along with OPOL and MA Southpaw you were one of my bright lights at D Kos. Speaking truth to power and fighting off the Hillary dingos like swatting flies.
Facts, not emotion. Okay, so you get fiery. Since when is that a bad thing?
Take the time you need to regroup and regain perspective. Yours for the revolution, comrade. It ain't over, until it is. And it ain't yet.

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--
Persevere, mimi

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Doctor West's picture

As a comments-only kinda guy (and not many of those) my endorsement isn't worth shit, but you're alright in my book TomP.

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did 9 months in California prison, because Neoliberal Democrats and GOP maggots work together to profit off the drug war

Haikukitty's picture

That's what they can't understand. Yes, we're angry but justifiably angry. But we are not pouting in a corner of the Internet. We are building a new community that meets our needs.

I have zero desire to go back to DK. All the posters and commenters I most loved to read and interact with are here.

All the commenters that made me want to stab my eyes with an ice pick are not here.

This is a lovely place, and we are building something LONG-TERM. The Resilience series is amazing, and is encouraging me to take real positive action IRL.

DK just can't comprehend that we are not missing them, once people get over the betrayal. It's like the husband who believes his wife will come crawling back any day now, even after she has remarried and started a new life. She's not coming back, dude... Biggrin

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KyleGNally's picture

The entire blog format is an old one that designers and site owners are moving away from.

That's not just my opinion, ether. I'm about halfway through my associates degree in Web design, and this is a concept that we covered in class. It's a format that places a great deal of load on a server, it's an expensive format to maintain, it only gets more expensive the more popular a blog becomes (mostly because you're never able to do this thing more cheaply than you are when you first start; you only do more and more of the same things that cost money, which increases costs, etc.).

The format itself is dying.

Let me add something: there is no honest reason why members at DK cannot edit their posts after posting. That is intentionally not possible at DK and frankly I'd love to know the real reason.

No technical or code-related reason. I know what I'm talking about, and I don't have to have seen the DK code base to know it. I'm glad I'm not there.... an unexplained lack of a very basic blogging feature on a site with that much exposure leaves me wondering about intentions.

I suspect intelligence, marketing, or marketing intelligence.

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stevej's picture

Diaries can be edited comments can't. The logic behind not allowing comment editing is that a) nested threads could stop making sense even with no ill will. and b) malicious comment editing to make a subsequent commenter look bad would be happening all the time due to the sheer toxicity of the place.

Personally I think there should be a short window, say five minutes, where comments can be edited.

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“To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize.” -Voltaire

They'd gain more impact as it would not only aid in that sites complete degeneration, but would bring readers from there over to here, increasing this sites impact.

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When the March 15 edict happened, LD said he was staying to promote Bernie and I said that I would stay as long as he continued to do the BNR. I think LD likes the fact that the BNR makes the rec list every day and it's kind of a thorn in KOS side. So almost every day, I throw in whatever LTE's and whatever else I've found, but I try and stay away from the other diaries.

Remember that 1975 movie called The Stepford Wives? The wives all started out as normal intelligent women who could think for themselves, and then one by one they started turning into these “trophy wives.” Like they were robots. All they cared about was cooking, cleaning, and looking good for their husbands.

That’s what TOP reminds me of. It used to be filled with progressives and then one by one, they all started turning into these Democorporate robots touting the party line.

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I've so appreciated your contributions to LD's BNR, which I continue to go to through, but the rest of the place has become such a cesspool that I get physically ill being around it. I hardly recognize the place/posters anymore.

Stepford Wives indeed. My dearest friend and neighbor, Sarah, and I used to make fun of them endlessly. Sarah passed on two years ago, but I think of her often these days. She would've loved Bernie's candidacy, and put her artwork to good effective use.

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Yahoo

elenacarlena's picture

I enjoyed the Stepford Wives. Creeped me out.

A bit off topic, but there's a neighborhood nearby where all the houses are new, just big enough, and completely identical. And everyone has put beautiful furniture and hanging plants on their front porches. And landscaped their front yards. And hung those flags that have cats and flowers on them. And all the cars are new SUVs. All very attractive. All very much reminding me of Stepford! I do not try to engage in conversation with those people.

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Alphalop's picture

[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9C4uTEEOJlM]

I doubt I will be back until after Trump becomes president, and then only to say "I warned ya..."

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"I used to vote Republican & Democrat, I also used to shit my pants. Eventually I got smart enough to stop doing both things." -Me

Raggedy Ann's picture

I fly in, make my BNR comment, log out. I have been going in to rec something that someone posts here and asks for help, but I'm not sure I want to do that anymore. DKhaos is toxic and bad for my health. The bullies in the comments are something that I cannot tolerate anymore. By participating, I'm condoning their actions. I'm over it.

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"The “jumpers” reminded us that one day we will all face only one choice and that is how we will die, not how we will live." Chris Hedges on 9/11

you're saying RA. But now I look at it like this. IMHO, Liepar needs to pack up and move out of there. Hopefully a bunch of people would follow. Again, IMO, the BNR is giving the little boy owner something he can point at and say how fair and impartial his site is. We know better of course. And, as been mentioned here many times, just clicking on the site is putting money in the owner's pocket. BNR has/is really putting some serious money in his pocket. OPOL's diaries, TomP's, all of them bring viewers, clicks and $$. But I do get them wanting to stay there and duke it out with the owner and his sheep...

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Raggedy Ann's picture

However, I can only control myself. Liepar will do what he needs to do when he decides. In the meantime, I'm down to only the BNR. I know it puts $ in Zuniga's pocket, but I will stay with the BNR until either Liepar decides to leave or the convention in July.

I cannot stomach anything other than the BNR, though. Not anymore. Nothing.

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"The “jumpers” reminded us that one day we will all face only one choice and that is how we will die, not how we will live." Chris Hedges on 9/11

Bollox Ref's picture

is the utter humorlessness of the place (owner on down).

Make a joke, and it's the TSA small room for you.

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Gëzuar!!
from a reasonably stable genius.

Slightkc's picture

I pop in now once or twice a week to log on to my Activity Stream. Real easy to find the "pootie diaries" and those of a couple of others I read by doing it that way, AND I avoid most of what raises my blood pressure.

Surprisingly, I realized late Sunday night I'd not even been over there to view the "Caturday" or "Sekrit Army" diaries, nor Darksyde's Science diary (totally addicted to these).

I've been trying to figure out how to put together our own "Critter Corner" and where in the world I'd find the extra time in the day to do it! Wink But I think I recognize a few names posting here from the pootie diaries over there. I don't want to see just an import of stuff or structure from there, but I think there might be more than just me that miss a few of the "non-political" diary areas.

I get a fast rundown of the "news" from the front page of DU right now. Work is so busy that's about all I have time to check, and my after-work hours are so time-constrained that by the time I get home, I don't want to land feet first in a blog for an hour or more. Shaking out a new routine... just needs a few tweaks here and there. Wink

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Pluto's Republic's picture

….when the Democratic Party is dislocated and rebuilt elsewhere.

You've already seen it done once, now. It works. This model will scale.

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____________________

The political system is what it is because the People are who they are. — Plato
lotlizard's picture

Or is Markos the Roberta Lange of political blogging?

As an initially small group built c99
breaking the mental mindcuffs
with which an undemocratic Dem blog owner
tried to doubly bind us,
so can folks across the country
network in local c99-like groups
and break the power
of Roberta Lange–type
undemocratic Democrats.

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tourniquet's picture

back to orangewater since a week after i joined here. there are a lot of progressive or at least liberal sites out there. i can sort of understand that people felt there was a community there... maybe this needs to be their introduction to the fickle nature of online communities.

there are people who are going to stand by their beliefs, and there are people that don't want to leave the community. there are, of course, people that agree with the community.

the two former would do well to stop giving markos moulitsauce clicks. the latter would do well to consider exactly where their politics lie. welcome to the club, son.

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GIANT ALL-CAPS SIG

ad hominem and caustic insults of everyone they don't like.

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did 9 months in California prison, because Neoliberal Democrats and GOP maggots work together to profit off the drug war

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tourniquet's picture

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GIANT ALL-CAPS SIG

the same to you for Leonard Cohen. Acute

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"It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society." --Jiddu Krishnamurti

and I rarely visited for quite a while. It got old being called a "firebagger." The primaries and Bernie supporters brought me back, but I'm over it again. Good riddance. Those corporatist sheep are dead to me.

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Several months, or maybe even a year ago, the subject of DK came up in the comments at naked capitalism, and I couldn't resist getting in a dig. I said something like:

"DailyKos is big, bad Democrat City's Greyhound bus terminal, where the local pimps and hustlers can always find a fresh supply of bright-eyed newcomers, ripe for the plucking."

I made a 2016 NY resolution: Don't ever give that place a click again. Haven't missed it at all.

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Alison Wunderland's picture

Glad you wrote the essay, Steven because I blew a gasket earlier, and what I'm about to write is as polite as I can muster under the circumstance.

Every time someone brings a load of cesspool infested whinging over here, the entire site suffers. A lot of people go to a good deal of effort to write essays that get dropped in the dust whenever one of these poor-pitiful-me sagas gets posted here. Every rant posted here produces a swarm of flies circling another steaming pile of shit.

There are only so many reading minutes in the day. There are only so many commenting minutes in a day. Then someone posts another essay that-awful-place rant and sucks all the oxygen out of the rest of causus99percent.

Close to 200 crappy kos comments today alone. What. The. Fuck. People! Writers are going to ask themselves, "Why bother to write? Nobody reads it."

You have friends over there? Fine. Whatever. Ask them to come here. You want to be clickbait for the Monster? That's on your conscience. But involve the rest of this site and deprive the rest of the writers here of eyeballs and feedback is stealing from all of us.

This place runs on fumes. I doubt JtC is even covering the bills. Y'all want this place to get bigger? Then don't show the new viewer, the new drop-in, that this place is mostly about carping about the other place. Fuck the other place. Pay attention to this place.

Now 220 kos crap comments. Those are blowflies on a corpse.

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I and others will write about what we wish. You can do the same.

Other posts do not prevent the posts you like from being read.

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lunachickie's picture

but he's right about "deprivation".

"Other posts do not prevent the posts you like from being read" is not what he said and it's really not the point. The point is, "conversation" gravitates HERE ONLY, in this one discussion, and it's like a giant vent session, and now everybody is in on it and they're not somewhere else. Look, I don't like reading that. I don't like the situation in general. I'm having trouble "letting go" myself. But goddammit, that place is TOXIC. We have to let it go sometime, otherwise that little shitweasel wins.

We're better than that. We have to be better than that.

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elenacarlena's picture

want. Still being ridiculously attached to DK, these kinds of diaries are what I want to read right now. But if I see another diary on the right that I want to read, I read that. I don't think these diaries take away from others. They're all right here for me to pick and choose from. These diaries are getting a lot of attention because of the PTSD. If I didn't read these and I've already read the others that interested me, then I'd go do something else. I wouldn't still be here reading more of the other diaries.. YMMV, but I don't think these take away from anyone else. There are days when all I see are diaries about DK and I only read one or two, then check out, because I tire of it. It's all part of a process. But write something interesting about something other than DK and I'll see it and read it, I promise. Just make sure you attract me with the title, since there is no rollover that further clues me in.

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Alphalop's picture

moving past it.

It helps to externalize one's thoughts and get the support and opinions of those that agree.

It's cathartic for some to do so, and will continue to happen whether we want to or not.

I have noticed that these are becoming fewer and less frequent and most likely will continue to decrease, but lets face it, Dkos is a microcosm of what we are fighting against and sometimes it is good to know what your enemy is up to so you can counter them.

But that's just my opinion. Smile

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"I used to vote Republican & Democrat, I also used to shit my pants. Eventually I got smart enough to stop doing both things." -Me

mimi's picture

how much it sucks over at TOP and how evil and toxic this and that person is over there, as well as many ranting diaries that are all similar in content, make it more difficult to comment on one subject at one place. It's pretty hard to say similar things at three different places and to chase the follow-up responses over several diaries, especially if people here come back to essays three and more days later and add a comment.

I liked it better in the beginning, because all the news dump comments went into the morning OT or the Evening EB. In the other essays, which have a specific to subject, you can easily comment in and be specific to the subject.

Diaries of a reader's relationship to the TOP (being TO, NR, banned, afraid to be banned, proud to be censored etc), draw a lot of empathy solidarity-type of comments and take time and attention away from essays, which were harder and longer to write and research and are harder and more time consuming to read and eventually to comment in.. That's a pity, imo, because those authors do deserve better.

There are so many excellent group and series essays here, which one can barely read at all, despite the fact that they are good, because the outrage of the day takes all the steam out of you.

Of course there is something like "talking yourself" through your "PTSD"-like emotions and thoughts.
It needs its space and circle of friends, here, among other things.

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Not Henry Kissinger's picture

but folks need to vent right now. It's part of their separation process.

Things will calm down eventually, and we'll end up with more good writers here when they do.

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The current working assumption appears to be that our Shroedinger's Cat system is still alive. But what if we all suspect it's not, and the real problem is we just can't bring ourselves to open the box?

elenacarlena's picture

time there and the more we get over having been there, the more this site will have great original content unrelated to there and the more attention it will receive.

BTW, I post some content from here and some from there on my Facebook page, and the content from here has been getting the most responses and further sharing. It bodes well for here!

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WaveyDavey's picture

I'm new here. I've lost something I loved but had to let it go because it changed into something I could no longer love. I need to vent. I need to grieve.

But, for what it's worth, I'm here to support this site intellectually, sometimes emotionally, and in the utmost financially. I don't see any ads. i avoid ads at all costs. I won't eat in a restaurant that has a TV. I won't watch a TV series that has commercial interruption. I won't listen to radio that has commercials or a rotating playlist.

I feel at home here. And, up until a few weeks ago I didn't know it even existed. Give it a few weeks. Some of us have lost our first love (in the political discussion forum sense).

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The people, united, will never be defeated.

LeChienHarry's picture

request. Many people there are refugees and feeling the loss of community, while being dedicated to doing everything they can for Bernie. I think I see quite a few like me registered in both places.

People are emotionally invested in the subjects they write about and the members they tend to run with.

One thing that has impressed me was how vitriolic a certain subject could be oh for example guns, but the same people in a Community Quilt diary, sweet as anything to each other. It's possible, and we have seen it.

The toxicity comes from the "leadership". The members, not so much. They are after all real humans and have real lives which does not get seen on blogs much. In digital lives, we are who we present ourselves to be.

Writing and the practice of writing longer pieces takes time, effort and investment. It does get easier, especially if it's about topics near and dear or passionately held.

The biggest problem leaving a well-established structure, is building or finding one to replace it. I would caution against an anti or mirror of TOP or anything else for that matter.

As much as I don't like change, this must be an organic development, with its own personality. Thanks to the kind founders here we are all invited in and we are finding our way. I highly recommend the Resilience Project. Pretty cool idea, which is growing rapidly. In small and large ways we need what the Resilience Library is starting to be. Many of us have bits and pieces of what it will offer.

Community Quilt also has a presence here. Since the March 15th edict, they have been struggling, much more than usual. They had access to a massive number of people. Here we are building.

I wonder too where people like Jerome a Paris went? Some really sweet people went to Motely Moose in an earlier iteration of a purge. Some have mentioned Booman. Where are some of those voices we miss?

Institutional memory is often needed to keep a group, business, association together. We will need that collective memory here as well. It is what some instinctively are mourning as they depart The Other Place.

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You may choose to look the other way, but you can never say again you did not know. ~ William Wiberforce

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