My Conversation with Markos regarding his Lack of Cred with Bernie Supporters. .
So Kos wants to advise Bernie and his supporters how to help down ballot candidates.Bernie did not do it well enough and Kos has advice.
I say this.
TomP May 02 · 03:54:52 PM
Why would Bernie supporters listen to you?What a useless post.
A front pager jumps to attack:
David Nir TomP May 02 · 04:06:54 PM
So Bernie Sanders shouldn’t support downballot candidates because Markos suggested he do so?Reply 11 Flag
TomP kos May 02 · 04:20:33 PM
And Kos does his little tantrum:
kos TomP May 02 · 04:09:38 PM
I thought you guys wanted a more progressive Democratic Party. I guess I was wrong.So that’s right! Don’t support downballot progressives! Don’t build a bench! Don’t look toward building the party from the bottom up! Just be bitter and angry and then let history repeat itself in eight years because you didn’t feel that doing the hard work of building a truly broad-based movement was useful.
I’m sure that’ll turn out well.
And I respond:
I just think you have no credibility with Bernie supporters, Kos. None.
It’s not about your content.
I never said I would not support down ballot Dems. Those are all strawman arguments that you throw out at me. They really are disingenuous on your part and a bit of a temper tantrum.
You. Lack. Credibility. With. Bernie. Supporters.
That was my only point.
You can have a tantrum, but many folks are not listening to you anymore.
You made this.
The entire thread is here: http://www.dailykos.com/comments/1522373/61344166#comment_61344598
Of course, the Clinton supporters attack me with lots of insults. I'm "unhinged."
Kos and the front pagers don't get it.
Bernie supporters do not listen to them.
They are stuck with the Hillary supporters. Rah, rah team!
The funny thing is, I will vote for Hillary. Don't like it, but will.
But why would any Bernie supporter listen to Kos or the front pagers there?
Young folks are the base of the Bernie movement.
And I will follow their lead, and I sure won't know it hanging out at Daily Kos.
Comments
It's very self centered
How can anyone disagree with me is his position. Well, Kos, it's pretty damned easy. I never went to the website to read his opinion, which was always shallow and uninformed. I went for the great diarists, commenters and a few front pagers.
kos has
a whole lot to lose in engaging with us "serfs", because obviously not all of the orangewater readership are kos acolytes.
it's really pretty easy to make him look really pretty bad.
GIANT ALL-CAPS SIG
Why are you still there taking the shit?
I was at dailykos today, and I couldn't believe what I saw. People in LD's diary comments are being monitored and reported for sanction and are admonishing one another to be careful "how" and "what" they say so no one gets in trouble. BobSwern published one of his free use diaries, and the comments are captor to captive. I have never seen anything so thoroughly sadistic and maschoistic in my life. Why do you people stay there and take it? When you guys leave and come here, you have no idea how wounded you really are.
TomP I don't mean to offend you. If I didn't care about you, I wouldn't stick my neck out to say any of this. You, LD, OPOL, Swern and others need to find your pride and leave. They abuse, berate, stalk, and pull your wings off for their fun and amusement. Kos holds you, while they shit all over you. WTF are you still doing there? Leave - let him keep his freak house. This blog is fun. We are still cheering the contested convention on and openly talking about and plotting what next. No one here is looking over their backs. I urge you to rethink your priority.
"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon
We're cool.
I will be there less and less.
Not so much for the reason you state, but the content is becoming so insipid. It's boring.
I'm not leaving for good and doubt I will be banned, although I think I have received as many hide rates in the last two weeks as I did in the previous 10 years.
I can be a commenter here. It's all I ever wanted to be.
No doubt, this place is being monitored also.
Not by Kos. He does not care. I['m rather neutral about Kos.
But the Hillary folks on Dkos like to play secret police.
And these are adults.
Hmm!!
Supposedly. More like a playground full of eight-year-olds.
Gëzuar!!
from a reasonably stable genius.
They’re the “Usual Gang of Grownups,” a concept which has
something of a history in connection with Daily Kos.
http://davefromqueens2.blogspot.de/2009/03/dkos-disinfo-racket-includes....
Yep
This. I used to enjoy the spirited engagement, but since Kos thought he needed to sit on one side of the scale the oxygen has been sucked out of the room.
And there are definitely multiple monitors from Kos watching both here and r/Kossacks, as I've had a number of them throw off-handed comments made here at me there.
"Polls don't tell us how well a candidate is doing; Polls tell us how well the media is doing." ~ Me
*laughing my ass off...*
What the hell are they "monitoring" us for? And what are they going to do to us, tell Markos on us?
Please help the Resilience Resource Library grow by adding your links.
First Nations News
Exactly.
It's a role playing game for them, I think.
Everything I say here will be thrown at me there by someone sooner or later.
So fucking what!
I always stayed an amateur. I have a job that has nothing to do with this or politics.
I don't need to be on a rec list.
I have a spouse, although we are not married, a grown daughter doing well (a lawyer for Legal Aid), my step children are fine. A rood over my head, food in the pantry.
So if some people on Daily Kos hate me, as they now assert, so what?
My dad used to tell me,
"Don't let them get to you....they ain't buying you any beer!"
Please help the Resilience Resource Library grow by adding your links.
First Nations News
Your Dad was a smart man.
MMMMMMMM
Beer
I can't believe you even care enough to ask.....
The more they dislike me, the prouder of myself I am.
"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon
so glad to hear that you have a job
that has nothing to do with politics or writing for blogs. Considering that you have put into so much of work during the years into dailykos as a participating writer and commentator, I applaud you for keeping your calm and being "unimpressed" by people who show hate towards you. I always wonder how hard it might be for those who make a living of writing for dailykos and clearly are not on the same wave length Markos and his serfs are.
I hope you visit here a lot and do what you think is right for you and makes you most happy.
Good Night.
Dey like tell Markos so can point at us en say “Ahana koko lele”
jalike small keed time Hawaii.
http://the.honoluluadvertiser.com/article/2007/Jul/06/ln/wordlist.html
Look at the read to which I linked.
They pile on, recommending Kos and David.
Some want the approval.
It's ok. If it makes them happier, so be it.
I was a lefty long before I wandered into Daily Kos.
It really is center-right brown-nose central there now.
An endless stream of boilerplate "conversion" diaries by obvious zombies and socks, mindlessly (but enthusiastically!) supported by site admin and dwindling membership alike... endless--and endlessly tedious--tendentious meta... draconian-but-unwritten rules, unevenly enforced... popular diarists banned for taking the wrong line...
What's not to like, in a train wreck sort of way? Everyone should join me in Lurkerville; trust me, it's a lot healthier in every possible way.
Hillary Clinton 2016: I'm a proud progmoderate!
Well said. Extra points for Brown nose.
They do it, but don't even know the expression.
They want to demand that we be given time-outs
Beware the bullshit factories.
Quite frankly
Let them monitor this place. The content here is amazing and getting better every day. Perhaps those mired in the echo chamber can learn something about issues instead of just cheering team blue. Any responsible adult should be able to use his or her own critical thinking and come to a personal conclusion about the issues and/or politicians and political parties. The problem with TOP is that Markos declared reality and critical thinking dead. That is my big beef with that place. I was particularly disappointed in Mark Sumner's post. I guess Markos has declared they must close ranks.
I understand how some people are wedded to the Democratic party as a result of the past and having worked hard for people running under the Democratic party banner. But the Democratic party has left me and I refuse to be held hostage to the "lesser of two evils" concept that the establishment wants me to buy into. If they want my vote, they need to earn it. And Hillary Clinton does not earn my vote. As I have posted here before, I participate in a weekly Peace vigil. I cannot in good conscience vote for Clinton who I regard as the most hawkish candidate out there.
Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy
Wonderful post.
I have really enjoyed your perspective.
I commented in Mark's post, called it one of his more stupid posts. Many people did not like my comment, bit it really was.
I generally have compassion for the front pagers. It's their job. Generally, but not always, they are chosen because of ideological compatibility with Kos. But even if not, they need their paycheck.
Generally, but not always,
Too much ideological compatibility isn't necessarily a good thing. I spend six years as president of an association with five total board members, and althought there were regular elections, board members were filled via board appointments (elections typically ratified our appointments).
During my time I made a strong point to bring on people who were not a part of my normal day-to-day interactions and who otherwise were inclined to have an adversarial position to mine. And we as a board accomplished great things, in the tens of millions (we were volunteers, I wish I got a cut). Then two years ago our own version of a Tea Party revolt landed on us (I called them the Game of Thrones Club) and I lost by 1% to someone with "real" elected political experience (two terms in elected citywide office 20 years ago).
Then their ' new leadership' approach lead to two quick board resignations by important related professionals, and our new leader proceeded to stock the board with people from their inner circle of "ideologically compatible" co-horts, people they interact with who they 'get along with,' and they proceeded to drive what took years to build into the ditch in less than 2 years. They're bleeding money, the financials are a mess, and good people have been leaving in droves.
Where I risked losing "control" (whatever that was good for) by embracing diversity of opinion (and we had some beauts of inner board battles), they shut out non-conforming opinion because "getting along" and all agreeing over what was "obvious" to do on any issue was valued over letting ideas battle on open ground and equal footing, and allowing and engaging people who take the crazy Devil's Advocate argument for the sake of viewing the full spectrum.
(I'm still pissed, can you tell?)
/rant
"Polls don't tell us how well a candidate is doing; Polls tell us how well the media is doing." ~ Me
This is always wise leadership advice
Doing anything else presumes that you're going to be right all the time. Now I don't know about you, but I've been known to be stupid from time to time... sometimes extremely so. It's those divergent viewpoints that save me from that.
A lot of wanderers in the U.S. political desert recognize that all the duopoly has to offer is a choice of mirages. Come, let us trudge towards empty expanse of sand #1, littered with the bleached bones of Deaniacs and Hope and Changers.
-- lotlizard
It's an organization
It's an organizational equivalence of a venn diagram. You want a broad area of coverage for the best targeted overlap, not a group of tightly overlapping bubbles ridiculing outliers.
"Polls don't tell us how well a candidate is doing; Polls tell us how well the media is doing." ~ Me
PS. I am cool with your choice.
Hell, maybe you'll convince me by November.
You just need some sunshine and clean air....
Once you detox, there will be no more "dear leader" for you.
"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon
The gulf between Me and Them:
The other day, there was a discussion here (including a video of a young woman making mincemeat out of a condescending pundit) about how Hillarists mistakenly think that the choice being made is about "personality" -- basically, that Sanders supporters who refuse to vote for HRC would be doing so, not because they think HRC would be a bad president, but because they just like Bernie better.
Today, I noticed this image being used by someone over there. It was captioned, "Sounds good to me." Nothing more perfectly captures the infantile celebrity-worship mindset of the Hillarists. Other than HRC, not one of the females named in this image has ever done a single thing to warrant even being known to the rest of us, other than having been the wife or daughter of a President. Perhaps someday one or more of them will -- at which point I hope to God they'll find something else to do with that celebrity than exploit it in order to seize the Presidency.
The sentiment embodied in this image, which "sounds good" to the person using it, represents my personal nightmare -- a cheery delight in the idea of the US being run by a hereditary oligarchy promoted through celebrity culture. I mean think about it, really, the core idea that underpins this thing: "Hey, I LOVE the idea of women being President -- as long as their fathers/husbands were President first! Other women (for example, my daughters) need not apply!"
Were it up to me, every person named on that bumper sticker would be constitutionally disqualified from the Oval Office -- and probably from the Senate and the SCOTUS as well.
The earth is a multibillion-year-old sphere.
The Nazis killed millions of Jews.
On 9/11/01 a Boeing 757 (AA77) flew into the Pentagon.
AGCC is happening.
If you cannot accept these facts, I cannot fake an interest in any of your opinions.
I have a suspicion about Michelle Obama
I suspect she'd be head and shoulders above her husband and the Clintons. Honestly, I don't know why exactly. Wish I had something besides what's really just a personal impression of the aura of someone who is a stranger to me.
It's not like me to say or feel such things.
Anyone else?
Sasha will become a diplomat or a magazine editor. Malia will become a very happy doctor.
MrJayTee, Red Oracle, knows all, sees all, tells a whole lot more!
“If there is no justice for the people, may there be no peace for the government.”
They're all going on the speaking circuit and they will start a
Foundation as soon as possible that will fill any gaps left by the Clinton's rake-it-in machine.
Obama already has a foundation
This news blurb is over a year old, but as you can see, Obama is planning his post-presidential & retirement years well in advance. No doubt his war chest has funneled a lot of money to offshore accounts and he can well afford the house and the new Obama library, wherever that may be located. In any case, he will be extremely wealthy by the time he leaves office. (Acquired thanks to Citizens United and/or whatever loose regulations now control PACs and banking and taxation for same - see the Stephen Colbert Report about eliminating a money trail from PAC through unnamed 501(c)(4) accounts.)
http://www.cc.com/video-clips/3yzu4u/the-colbert-report-colbert-super-pa...
'Colbert Report' Taught Viewers More About Super PACs Than Cable News
'Colbert' viewers more knowledgeable about campaign finance than tradition news watchers, study finds.
http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2014/06/02/colbert-report-taught-vie...
Edit: P.S. It wouldn't surprise me to see Obama making this bromance into a ménage à trois in about two years. Check out the still photos and video and notice the body language between Bill & Dumbya. Remember, Bill, Poppy, & Dumbya started a "charity" when a hurricane went through Haiti many years ago. Last I heard the money was being held up for housing while some NGO was negotiating for people to work in their factories or some such. It benefits the Clintons and the Bushista Crime Family to hang on to "their money."
Bush, Clinton continue unlikely bromance
https://www.yahoo.com/news/bush-clinton-bromance-twitter-instagram-16191...
I believe in an America where the separation of church and state is absolute ..., where no church or church school is granted any public funds or political preference. — President John F. Kennedy, Houston, TX, 12 September 1960
There's apparently not even a tiny shred of morality among them.
Total narcissists with no conscience to hold them back. And Bernie blows their excuse that everybody does it.
Well, thus far I haven't seen a shred of ethics...
... from the Clintons and a great many of their cohorts. They're in politics for the money, fame, name recognition, because they have a bottomless pit of an ego that literally can't exist without adulation, but if they can't get positive attention, they'll settle for infamy and name recognition. They will say or do anything - literally anything! - to acquire their version of Fame. They aren't good enough at acting to be in show business, but they sure know how to populate their social lives with the rich and famous among the show biz types who have publicity connections, as well as get money from the rich and famous.
Many long years ago I watched interviews of Hillary after Bill's sexcapades, wondered why she put up with it; any normal woman would have divorced him after the first affair. Two+ decades later we see why. Bill has the charisma, power, and smarts (he wasn't a Rhodes scholar for nothing; he can pick statistics and facts out of thin air and cogently discuss multiple topics sans script - a talent I actually admire, but I also wish he were more honest about his conclusions), she is following in Bill's shadow because she has zero charisma and not enough talent to do this on her own without his help, and to out-do the toughness of men, she's even adopted a military policy I consider to be extreme.
After all these years, I've come to the conclusion that they deserve each other; in some odd way they each understand the voracious ego of the other, both want fame and fortune and will do anything to get it. They have a great business partnership (albeit on the shady side what with money laundering), and what they can't get from each other they get from their adoring fan base who will forgive them and excuse them for any transgressions because the fans romantically see them as "the power couple" (a modern-day Bonnie and Clyde, if you will).
This is also why it would be exceedingly unwise to "hire" (vote for) this power couple to go back to the White House. And make no mistake, we could not get one without the other, and since Bill has the brains between them, this is very much his bailiwick. He could keep her from making too many mistakes, but not all of them. The adrenaline rush of power is instantly addicting (and terribly sexy, hence the risk-taking sexual behavior), and while power rests easy on Bill's shoulders and he makes his bad decisions sound good at the time (e.g., repealing Glass-Steagall with Gramm-Leach-Bliley, one of his most egregious mistakes), I think Hillary would ride roughshod over everyone and make life hell on earth for the people working under her.
Other than keeping them out of the White House, I have no interest in uncovering the power dynamic of that toxic duo, but I'll bet the psychiatrist who could figure it out could make a fortune writing a book about it.
I believe in an America where the separation of church and state is absolute ..., where no church or church school is granted any public funds or political preference. — President John F. Kennedy, Houston, TX, 12 September 1960
Agree except for my take on who's the smarter of the two.
I see the reason for her standing beside Bill at the impeachment as a calculated risk to get to where she is now. He's the charismatic smooth talker, but she's the Machiavellian force behind the throne. I think about her as Lady Macbeth without a conscience. No doubt Bill would sell his soul (if he hadn't done that already) to get back into that white house, but his interference at voting places and shaking a finger at the 'rude' protesters/peasants, seems to indicate that he's not so sure he's gonna get there (despite the fact that the fix is in), what with all the riffraff blocking the way. And that can't make for a comfortable relationship, with each of them calling the other out for their stupid self-generated gaffs and lack of foresight re their money laundering. Like you, I wish they'd just take all their ill-gotten loot and go far away before they do any more damage to the rest of us.
I agree with your assessment
that she's the one behind it all, scheming on how to do it. He used to be the charismatic one but he has lost that in his frustration over her not winning easily. Read C Hitchens, "No One Left to Lie To: The Triangulations of William Jefferson Clinton" and there's a great anecdote about Bill and Hill on the day of his first inauguration - he screams "fucking bitch" at her, she replies "stupid mother fucker" to him, all on the balcony of Blair House and obviously in front of just enough reporters for this to be recorded history. Kind of says it all, does it not?
Only a fool lets someone else tell him who his enemy is. Assata Shakur
So is getting over on Bill just as important as the $/power
incentive? Does she intend to show women how to make their men heel? And is Bill looking forward to seeing her impeached, even more than we are?
Bill not the brains now
I have to point out one thing--while Bill was undeniably very, very smart when he was president, his brain was wrecked by the heart surgery and he hasn't been the same person since. I guess this is not as well known as I thought...he will get more and more frail, my prediction. She would have to rely on other advisors (if she were to win) and that should worry anyone.
She doesn't look all that well herself, and we haven't seen her
full medical report which was never produced AFAIK.
Worries me that she relies on him.
We will see the real person when he's out of office.
Carter or Clinton? Or somewhere in between?
Do you mean Obama? I can't tell who you're replying to.
If you mean Obama, he'll be best buds with Clinton, if anyone. He has more in common with Bill than with Hill.
Since Bill is now running some kind of charities and/or scholarship program with Dumbya, I see all three of them colluding to make even more money via their various "foundations" (through which I'm sure they're laundering money). Poppy's too old (likely going senile now), and they would ostracize Carter who is essentially too ethical and moral for their narcissistic psychopathy.
It took a lot of naked ambition for Obama to run for president while only halfway through his first Senate term. The lack of experience and naiveté was painfully obvious in that he has striven for eight fucking years to be the "bipartisan compromiser" in a role he chose for himself, and he has lost to the more experienced Rethugs at every turn. They have essentially been punishing Obama for his hubris since he was not a DC insider when he ran for president (racism might be part of it, but it's not the whole story).
To appease the gods of DC, Obama refused to go after the war criminals and liars, or even investigate their many transgressions and violations of the Constitution and US law..., voted for FISA '08 after he had the nomination sewn up and before the convention..., and proceeded to follow in their footsteps by continuing their wars and adding to that by ordering drone bombing before he had been in office for even a week, followed by getting MCA '09 passed. All that and much more from a man who once taught constitutional law. His illegal and unconstitutional actions over the last eight years make one breathless.
Obama will be 55 years old when he leaves office in January..., and he has nothing to do for the rest of his life except make money giving speeches, play golf, write another book about his years in office once he's done, and make more money doing something (don't know what) through his foundation (which means he will be laundering money like the Clinton Foundation), and every few months or years go hang out at his home in Hawaii for a few weeks. Except for spending time in Hawaii, it sounds like a boring existence.
I would go watch the dance contests in Hawaii, but I doubt they are to everyone's liking.
I believe in an America where the separation of church and state is absolute ..., where no church or church school is granted any public funds or political preference. — President John F. Kennedy, Houston, TX, 12 September 1960
Once upon a time, I thought I preferred Hillary to Bill.
I've changed my mind.
Regardless, there are probably literally millions of Americans who, as far as I know, would be just as effective in the Presidency as Michelle Obama.
The earth is a multibillion-year-old sphere.
The Nazis killed millions of Jews.
On 9/11/01 a Boeing 757 (AA77) flew into the Pentagon.
AGCC is happening.
If you cannot accept these facts, I cannot fake an interest in any of your opinions.
Ironically, that's how I felt about Hillary
during Bill's 1st term. I can't decide now whether I was just a gullible chump or she genuinely changed.
Hillary Clinton 2016: I'm a proud progmoderate!
I'm probably wrong about Michelle
I'm OK admitting it. As to HRC, I never warmed up to either of the Clintons. I saw too much of them during the primaries. Yuk.
“If there is no justice for the people, may there be no peace for the government.”
Good points.
Silly stuff.
I mean really: They're adding to their cult of personalities
two young women who have quite literally never undertaken or accomplished anything more notable than being the daughters of a President. That's no slam on the Obama girls -- who the hell has ever done anything at that age that would qualify them to be the objects of anybody's bizarre projected political fantasies? M and S have behaved themselves with reasonable grace and dignity during their adolescence, so they should become President in their "turn"?
These people are, quite simply, mad.
The earth is a multibillion-year-old sphere.
The Nazis killed millions of Jews.
On 9/11/01 a Boeing 757 (AA77) flew into the Pentagon.
AGCC is happening.
If you cannot accept these facts, I cannot fake an interest in any of your opinions.
I'd like to see Michelle in 2024 (or 2020 if Hill in the
meantime) just because at that point, the heads of all the Neanderthal Trump followers would explode!
A black female President who once said she was ashamed of America? You think the right is unhinged now? That'd do it. Her first act in office would have to be to open millions more mental hospitals to treat all those people who would refuse to face reality.
Please check out Pet Vet Help, consider joining us to help pets, and follow me @ElenaCarlena on Twitter! Thank you.
I similarly thought it would be hilarious for Obama
to nominate HRC to the Supreme Court. Ultimately, I didn't think she'd be any worse than anybody else he'd nominate, so why not? And it would have gotten her the hell out of politics, leaving us a good 15 to 20 undistracted years in which to run the Chelsea train off the rails.
Of course, I also believed HRC would be able to survive the vetting process.
There are millions of black women in the United States. Michelle Obama is not particularly noteworthy among them, as regards qualification to the Presidency (other than, as you note, being on record as having had the good sense to be doubtful of the ineffable virtue of The Greatest Nation On Earth (tm)). I would rather have seen Eleanor Holmes Norton give it a go, but she'll be 83 by November 2020. She'd be an interesting pick for a Sanders running mate, though.
The earth is a multibillion-year-old sphere.
The Nazis killed millions of Jews.
On 9/11/01 a Boeing 757 (AA77) flew into the Pentagon.
AGCC is happening.
If you cannot accept these facts, I cannot fake an interest in any of your opinions.
Hopefully gender and race will be irrelevant soon
and if they were I would still want Barbara Lee to be President in 2024.
Beware the bullshit factories.
Let them moniter
to their black hearts content. Who knows maybe they will learn something. Why would they bother what good is it? I don't understand kos's ridiculous gripe about Bernie's lists and helping down ticket Dems. Like kos and the party machine would ever back a real 'progressive'.
How preposterous and hypocritical for him to talk about building a ground up new liberal party after mocking dragging down lefty's and supporting the faux progressives who run as Dems. and then turn on a dime once elected and call it pragmatic or moderate. The last thing the party wants or will fund, endorse or support are liberal lefty's with a D after their names. They like their 'progressives' docile, tame and willing to sit back and not cause trouble for 'the owners of the place' and their transnational anti-democratic, global agenda.
Bejeezus. He has lost all his cred. not only for Saunders supporter's but for anyone who is disgusted with the corrupt, bent, RW Democratic apparatchik. This primary has been an eyeopener as far as election rigging and dirty politics go. Kos has been right their with them so how dare he start talking about Bernie's lack of support for down ticket progressives.
There is a major insurrection in the rank and file Democratic membership and the public in general . The indies are gaining voter's and the Democratic party's losing membership at an alarming rate. Indies are 43% and gaining. It's a real political revolution and kos has nothing to do with it he doesn't even understand what it's about. Issue's don't matter, my ass kos. Seems they do when a pol actually puts them out their without fear and hate. Guess he's getting nervous about establishment New Democratic party's demise. It's going to be as dead as a Dodo an x party and he and his slimy site will become irrelevant. The Dems including kos and crew start fighting for 'we the people' and our system or they will lose. If ever a party needed spoiling it's this one.
Perhaps TomP you would be happier at another site? The best advice that 'dick' every gave me.
Wow! just going over there to follow links ignites my head and makes me foam at the mouth or fingers. I don't want any part of his Dem. Party or his damn site.
Well said.
Weren't you for Kucinich in 2007? I remember us talking way back then. You were good on the war. I know I've known you along time. We've fought and agreed over the years. Glad you are here.
I worked grass roots
for Obama in 2007. I quit his campaign the day after he voted for FISA. I still voted for him in the primary and general even though I knew he wasn't real. I was an Edwards supporter until he blew it off. I first read you there when you joined up and we're supporting Edwards. We have known each other for years, aren't we both from the class of 2006?
I'm an ideological purist, emo-prog, firebagging, farlefty, who stuck it out at dkos for ten years. We have disagreed and agreed but I always knew you we're on the side of labor, the workers and the common good. Enjoyed reading your diaries. Yes I was a big fan of Kucinich, still am. I never got the chance to even vote for him as they whisked him off the stage to fast. I like what he is about just like I like most of what Bernie is about the us not me, empowering people to take back our democracy.
Yes, class of 2006.
AYFKM?
I do not come here to read about how the flying monkey tattletale brigade and the pissant little Napoleon who lords over them might be MONITORING people outside their pissant orange purview.
What the actual fuck, TomP? I'm sorry, I've always thought a lot of you, but I seriously think that for you to come here and post this and casually drop that into discussion here is beyond obnoxious. I still go over there from time to time, but it's Dysfunction Junction there and anyone paying the least little bit of attention rather gets that. So why would you bring it here like that?
I am furious to read this here, I really am. I mean, good for you for telling the guy he has no cred, but if that doesn't get you bounced from that place, I have to seriously reconsider more than a couple things IRT this or any other political blog. That's crap. That is crap that will put a hurt and a cloud over this blog. My 2 cents, YMMV.
Of course c99 is being monitored
We have a bloated NSS that has nothing better to do. Whoever found this site first probably got a free pizza.
Not a whole lot of point in worrying about being monitored if you want to stand up against systems of power, though.
Stay on track. Stay in lane. Don't throw rocks.
Well yeah, agreed
The whole friggin' Internet is "Monitored". So I'm supposed to worry about that little California shitstain and his flying orange monkeys?
I'm serious, that comment of that post made me see red. That's not EVEN why I'm here.
duplicate comment
ooops
Sorry to see you are so upset.
A couple things. First, I have no idea what Clinton supporters on Daily Kos do, but my experience form 2007 tells me that supporters of candidates use whatever you say anywhere on the internet. I saw someone banned at dkos for comments on a different blog. Second, why are you so upset. Who cares if some bozo copies a comment and uses it against me (or you) on dkos?
Shit, people have been searching my comments since at least 2007 and throwing it in my face. Well, you said blah blah blah seven years ago or one year ago. Third, I think my post is fine.
Anyone, sorry to see you so upset.
I expect people to use anything I say against me at any time. And I don't care.
Yup
You gotta assume people will stalk you online. And if they do and throw something in your face, you have to be prepared to stand behind it.
This is why I don't do much with alternate names. It might lull me into a false sense of complacency.
Stay on track. Stay in lane. Don't throw rocks.
I'm upset because
even insinuating something like that here just flat-out isn't necessary.
If you really need a reason why I think such a thing--well, here's a reason, and there are plenty of others: what if someone is lurking and are finally thinking about joining up and then the next comment they happen to read is yours?
Then they would know the truth.
We see things very differently on this.
Veritas vos liberabit — “the truth shall set you free.” n/t
They're looking for bloody
They're looking for bloody shirts to wave as trophies in the their 'Safe Zones' and throw in our faces if/when we post anything there.
I actually find it kind of comical, and have been meaning to make a post about Kos and the CIA and election integrity and faux progressive posturing specifically because I know they have so many lurkers here, and it's something no one could get away with posting there for them to confront.
"Polls don't tell us how well a candidate is doing; Polls tell us how well the media is doing." ~ Me
I think it would be pretty cool
if I get silenced on DailyHos, post comments here, then have little hillaroid thought police scurrying back with my posts and putting them back up there for me.
This is just one diary though, not even on the front page.
The number of comments indicates Tom's topic is of interest. If it doesn't interest you that's fine; there's a lot of other content at C99, right here, right now. Being able to choose without an ever-present threat of sanction for choosing "wrongly" is IMO central to the purpose of Caucus.
Hillary Clinton 2016: I'm a proud progmoderate!
Huh? I don't understand
what you are upset about. I guess TomP has the right to say here what he wants, or not?
The whole Internet is monitored
By all kinds of crazy fucks. And we're supposed to worry about kossacks?
Stay on track. Stay in lane. Don't throw rocks.
Heard angel d was put on TO
So I headed there to check out Bobswern's diary. This is what passes for insightful commentary now, in response to a comment by angel d about the FBI investigation:
WTF!?!? I know it doesn't lead the national news, but... seriously people, time to buy a vowel. TOP has become a giant hermetically sealed bubble, a huge feedback loop spiraling into a black hole of irrelevancy. I haven't been there for days now, and since 2003 I practically lived there. It's worse than annoying, it's... boring. I might as well go to RedState and try to engage anyone there for all it's worth.
"Polls don't tell us how well a candidate is doing; Polls tell us how well the media is doing." ~ Me
It's funny.
Daily Kos always was mostly talking to itself, but now it's even more so.
Totally agree.
It really is funny....
I was talking about what was going on at TOP to several of my friends on Face Book... all politically astute...and not one of them had even HEARD of the place...
Please help the Resilience Resource Library grow by adding your links.
First Nations News
Agreed!
Family members or friends. In meatspace, I've never heard a reference to DKos.
Big on the interwebbytubes........... but small in in the real world.
(Cue Kossy gnashing of teeth)
Gëzuar!!
from a reasonably stable genius.
Same here. Few have ever heard of it.
???? So the FBI aren't investigating her use of a home server??
I'm beginning to think that DKos has become some form of performance art.
Gëzuar!!
from a reasonably stable genius.
Epistemic closure.
And don't forget the paid trolls there. Don't knwo who is one, but even Kos admitted they likely are there.
Of course they are! All those people in that nice
group picture he posted on the FP a couple months ago? 2/3 of them are the cranky old regulars (ppl like Trix and (the rest are IT and accountants) just onsite. And God only knows how many in the field.
Maybe none, maybe they're into persona management like the kind you can get from buzzbundle.com. I would sure as hell like to catch one of them, but I have more to do with my time than that.
Thank you for mentioning buzzbundle
Had not heard of them, went over, read their pitch.
Whew, another reason not to get all wound up because "someone is wrong on the internet."
"Someone" may be a semi-robotic operative and/or provocateur.
Euterpe2
Of course they are.
Down is up over there. The delusion is thick.
The FBI investigation of HRC
Is hardly on par with insisting the earth is flat.
Since they have decided to support her, nothing negative may be addressed. Because the more people think about how she might be indicted, the more press it gets, the harder it is to just decide people will forget about it and let her slide like we are always letting presidential criminals slide. They are royalty, they are above the law. Protest, and off with your head.
I agree with everyone here who says that place is boring. They're corrupt, but boring is the death knell.
Stay on track. Stay in lane. Don't throw rocks.
^^^This comment! ^^^
Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy
Sadists.
Those who stay are masochists. My apologies to our friends that insists on remaining targets. If you haven't read the comments in Bob Swern's diary - particularly what they did to angela d, go read it. Maybe Kos is running an internet snuff club for bullies.
"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon
I agree
I had to leave because I couldn't stomach the way OPOL was being treated. Also, I was going through a tragic point in my family's life while watching the community there crumble.
I tried to stay because of the people... but in the end it was seeing how OPOL was treated by others that just made me physically ill. I stayed offline for days during some nasty VA stuff with my estranged father.
I was so over Markos. Just in a few weeks of being there, I left. We left to MyLeftWing and elsewhere over something about womens studies.
He also is very much against activism, anti-war protests and women who do such things as street action anti-war activism protests.
I stayed for the community. I paid no attention to the squeaky voiced man behind the curtain.
Mocked for being a liberal who was against drones by people who can turn a blind eye to Occupy should have been enough but it wasn't. I stayed because many there are ones I have long ties to. I stayed for the community. I had to leave when I saw what the community was becoming.
When I saw OPOL being attacked.
When my kids couldn't believe that anyone who remotely thought they had an inkling of what being a progressive or HUMAN would tell anybody who have ever protested warhawk Hillary to just shut up and vote HRC.
I am an unreasonable woman.
"Love One Another" ~ George Harrison
It's not a good thing when community blogs own community
When such community becomes overly identified with the blog. Even here. I like the software and I like JtC's style a great deal. He seems like a rare person, one who understands a great deal about how these places can go wrong and works proactively to keep that from happening, along with his advisors/colleagues.
But community should still never become overly attached to a place on the Internet. It's too fragile in too many ways. And whatever else it is, it's still privately owned. It is not a true commons. This culture as a whole does not understand the value of a true commons.
Stay on track. Stay in lane. Don't throw rocks.
Apparently some of us who have never lived with a true commons
would like to get more than a rumor of that. An yes, virtual life isn't real, but sometimes looks sparkly. Until it isn't.
Hey! my dear friends or soon-to-be's, JtC could use the donations to keep this site functioning for those of us who can still see the life preserver or flotsam in the water.
yeah, the community should own the community blog,
and not the other way around.
That would support my idea of the community (each registered user who has posting privileges) to pay their dues to support this community blog. I don't want a privately owned community blog anymore, I also don't want a community blog that is dependent on philanthropic rich donors of non-for profit organizations funding a community blog (because I don't trust those as well anymore. They might also manipulate the blogs readers or writers)
As long as it is possible the community members should own their community blog. You consider it like you pay for your own Union, it's a membership fees to be able to determine the rules under which you want to work, live and post here. It should be your own house.
JtC is great in the sense that he doesn't allow this site to become propaganda or promoting tool for one party or one candidate. He knows when to stay quiet and when to act decisively to put someone on the right track.
Markos has no say in telling a man like Sanders what he should do. None. And no say to tell TomP what to do either. I have never trusted or respected Markos' way of building his business. Nowadays I don't like it one bit. You can see here, how much people got hurt or negatively attached to that place. Most people have contributed there for years and invested their emotions and their brains and got disrespected or belittled too often.
Microcosm of the Democratic Party, of which the same can be said
This was something that really bugged me too
This has bothered me to no end. The way they treat those who are willing to go out in the streets and put themselves on the line. The awful treatment of the Occupy Movement showed just how conventional they are.
I have posted many times both there and here that nearly all real change comes as a result of social movements. Politicians are the guardians of the status quo and only change when a social movement reaches a critical mass too popular to ignore. And here is the key. The social movement can have a great effect upon change when its critical mass is well below 50%.
Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy
Black woman with more moral cred than Obama and HRC put together
Cynthia McKinney, writes about Obama’s legacy.
http://www.opednews.com/articles/1/Time-to-think-of-legacy-T-by-Cynthia-...
Of course, Kos’s Kool Kidz ridicule Cynthia McKinney too.
And Cindy Sheehan.
Basically anyone with a spine who actually stands for moral principles and human rights.
Tools For The Tool
Sadly, I have come to the theory that kos, Hillary's Tool, is using OPOL, Tom, LD, the BNR et al as unknowing tools to keep traffic flowing to the site. "The crisis/conflict state" of the site attracts an audience. Yes, it is a source of news for Bernie supporters, and a source of motivation/inspiration "to keep on fighting" --- but, the reality is, Bernie supporters are being used and abused at Daily Kos. The Democratic and Republican parties are simply tools for the 1% to continue to rule over this country. The rich man's machine is slowly devouring our world.
Of course that's the strategy
All sites that have downvoting enabled and other forms of easy attack and creating hierarchies use such to drive traffic. And they all have paid ads, don't they?
Are you the customer or are you the product being sold? Is a question always worth asking. These aren't the only possibilities, but lots of the Internet chooses them.
Stay on track. Stay in lane. Don't throw rocks.
hyperbole, but....think about it.
all that drama, guts, bleeding, groveling, stoicism, and intimidation is being viewed by how many. It's like an internet snuff film. Sadists and masochists - I don't know why they stay.
"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon
dkmich, I'm enjoying your comments in this discussion
I agree with you totally.
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