Open Thread - Thurs 17 April 2025 - Do We Need To Be This Scared?
Do We Need To Be This Scared?
I was with a friend a few days ago. She is planning a trip from Seattle to Chicago by train in July. She's 'old'; she's 76 or so. The train trip sounds fun to me and to her! Some of her other friends have advised her to get a burner phone (Gjohnsit posted a comment about these a few days ago) and a burner laptop, with nothing on them but maybe games, in case she's stopped by the police or TSA (really, on an in-country train trip?) and she's detained and her phone and laptop are confiscated and searched because she is 'suspicious'. Do they actually do this kind of searching of people on trains as well as airplanes? Any passenger? I've not heard of it happening on trains, I have to admit.
Daffodils in the garden, because, SPRING!!! 
Is this really happening to people like old grannies? Is this fear legitimate for everyone, or ramped up for most of us (not immigrants, their fear is real and very sad and it's horrible and wrong that they have it)? I guess I'm not paying enough attention lately to the 'real' news to know. The only thing that might be suspicious about my friend is that she's a democrat; a run of the mill, never asks questions, thinks Putin is Satan kind of democrat. She's an American born and bred, a seventh generation American.
And I've got another question for her friends, for anyone - why do they think the powers that be don't already have all the info off my friend's phone and lap top? She connects the laptop to the 'net all the time. She uses Winblows and she doesn't know much about computers, especially computer privacy, so I'm pretty sure her computer contents are not secret or private. As for her cellphone, I think anything on the phone, any of our phones, is already out there where TPTB can access it if they want. It's all recorded somewhere 'just in case'.
Dang, times are weird, aren't they? I know they are detaining and sending immigrants out of the country and I know Trump's talking about sending actual American citizen prisoners out to prisons in El Salvador (concentration camps as Hedges calls them and I agree). Does this extend to American born and bred old ladies traveling partway across the country on a train? Maybe it does. And yea, maybe we should all be scared and have burner phones and laptops.
So whatcha think about this? And here's the open thread - remember, everything is interesting if you dive deep enough, so tell us about where you're diving!
Comments
It's Thursday!
And Thursdays are good! It's been niceish weather here, getting more gardening done, pruning brambles (where the heck did they come from??) and thistles, repairing raised beds, planting onions, fun. Hope everyone else is having some good days too.
What's up with everyone? Whatcha all doing? Are you scared by Trump's actions? I am, but I'm not scared enough to get a burner phone... yet. Let us know what's happening with you
If you're poor now, my friend, then you'll stay poor.
These days, only the rich get given more. -- Martial book 5:81, c. AD 100 or so
Nothing ever changes -- Sima, c. AD 2020 or so
Fear is warranted
How to channel it is the challenge.
Ignoring it does not make it disappear.
Thanks for the OT Sima!
Zionism is a social disease
Yep, the challenge is...
what to do about the fear. And is it real? I mean the reasons for the fear? I think they are, despite my not wanting to believe so. Good music, thank you!
If you're poor now, my friend, then you'll stay poor.
These days, only the rich get given more. -- Martial book 5:81, c. AD 100 or so
Nothing ever changes -- Sima, c. AD 2020 or so
US strategic error- Europe's fault
I don't know where she got it from, but years and years ago, I used to have a bartender, who had an act focused on "somebody STOP ME!, If ya don I'm gonna do somethin weally, weally bad."
Based on history (The Taft-Katsura Memorandum which led to WWII in Asia) I'd be very reluctant to adopt Japanese "strategic visions." The option of having a command other than USFK/CFC on the Korean peninsula with other theater command elements (meaning Japanese armed forces) on the peninsula is an extremely dangerous idea, because historically it has been shown to draw a Chinese military response. It is totally unnecessary to increase South Korean armed forces commitments to a vast theater designed for war with China. In fact, it is destabilizing.
My opinion on travel and search and seizure is very subjective so I'm not going to say much about it. I did hear one immigration lawyer on a Canadian broadcast yesterday there is not much one can do about it "at the border."
Thanks for the OT Sima!
語必忠信 行必正直
Perhaps 'somebody stop me!
.
came from that movie the mask?
and the weally, weally bad was I think Elmer Fudd.
But yeah, a real step-up in diplomatic relations. Blaming Ukraine on someone besides
Russia. Teehee.
Zionism is a social disease
Yes, that's it QMS!
Thanks for refreshing my failing memory.
朋友
語必忠信 行必正直
'Japanese strategic visions'...
Are these people nuts? Man *shaking head in disbelief*. Thanks for stopping by and teaching us more about current events happening in Asia.
If you're poor now, my friend, then you'll stay poor.
These days, only the rich get given more. -- Martial book 5:81, c. AD 100 or so
Nothing ever changes -- Sima, c. AD 2020 or so
I'm not scared
but I am concerned. If your friend has lily white skin, no tattoos and doesn't wear a hoodie, she should be okay. As to being spied on, Edward Snowden clued us in on that years ago.
I told myself I need to stop drinking.
But I'm not about to start listening to some drunk who talks to himself.
Hmmmm....
Well she isn't lily white in that her hair is still black/brown even in her 70's. Most of us think that's lucky :). I don't think she has a lot to fear, especially on a train. I'm not sure about flying though, not at all.
And yep, Edward Snowden showed us all, but now, he's not to be believed because he's 'russian' now, right?
Great music! I haven't heard that song in ages. Figures
If you're poor now, my friend, then you'll stay poor.
These days, only the rich get given more. -- Martial book 5:81, c. AD 100 or so
Nothing ever changes -- Sima, c. AD 2020 or so
Air Travel
I was a regular business traveler over two stretches of my career as a labor union employee, most recently from 2008 through 2021 when I flew upwards of 50,000 miles per year. The post 911 security measures were no worse than annoying. Covid shutdown and retirement put an end to my accumulation of frequent flyer points. I am now planning a trip to Albuquerque for a family gathering that will take place after the May 7 Deadline for the next Papers Please step toward fascism -- the Real ID. The next appointment time available to show my documentation is in July, but you can go to the DMV with your papers in your hands and wait in line in hopes of being able to see my brother and my nephew next month.
The stuff they want is not all that onerous, but are absurd. Basically, they want to be able to track you down if they get a hankering to find you after you get home from your travels.
Scared? A tad. Outraged at bureaucratic overreach? You betcha.
I cried when I wrote this song. Sue me if I play too long.
Unless things have changed
If you have a passport you don't need a Real ID.
I told myself I need to stop drinking.
But I'm not about to start listening to some drunk who talks to himself.
Passport will get you on a plane
and it is the easiest way to get a Real ID.
Mine expired several years ago. I plan to take it with me with my other papers at the DMV.
I cried when I wrote this song. Sue me if I play too long.
Just make sure
that your expired passport was issued after 1997, when they started putting the biometric and SSN/DOB data into the RFID chip, or they'll look at it sideways. If you have a really old expired passport, one issued prior to 1997, you'll essentially be starting from scratch.
As Joseph Heller said, "That's some catch, that Catch-22"...
Twice bitten, permanently shy.
That is good news for me
as I figured the expired passport was worthless. The California DMV website makes it clear that other documents than the passport can get you the Real ID.
I cried when I wrote this song. Sue me if I play too long.
Real ID
I have resisted it so far, but I haven't traveled via airplane for a while. I figure I'll deal with it when, and if, I travel by air again. I hope your wait in line isn't too long, and it really pisses me off that people traveling within the US have to have this kind of ID now.
My passport expired a year ago. Gah. So I guess that won't work
If you're poor now, my friend, then you'll stay poor.
These days, only the rich get given more. -- Martial book 5:81, c. AD 100 or so
Nothing ever changes -- Sima, c. AD 2020 or so
Current policies are not necessarily indicative of tomorrow's.
The DHS (CBP) has jurisdiction everywhere within 100 miles of all land and sea borders, essentially a 100 mile wide danger zone all around the country plus points of entry like international airports, so YES, travel inside the US is covered to a large extent.
Next up - what might they do. Any damn thing they feel like seems to be the rule. I once tried to see if a certain object or class of objects was ok to carry through airport sekurity. There is a webside where they provide a list of what you can and cannot take. There is also a caveat, the officer on the spot has the final say on EVERYTHING. Whatever rules there might be, they are simply suggestions, in the end it is up to the dude with the badge.
My wife and I are going to Niagara falls later in the year with a short side trip into Canada and I am seriusly concerned about my phone and Chromebook upon returning to the US. Given our globally thin-skinned administration, damn near anything could trigger deterntiona and interrogation at a minimum, but yet, I am no more disinclined to be bullied and to cede my rights than I was in my younger days.
be well and have a good one
That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --
I have a friend
who travels internationally often. She has started deliberately resetting her devices to factory settings and completely clearing them while on final approach, before doing the immigration and customs dance, and then simply restoring them from cloud backup once she's away from the airport on her return.
I'm amused by that, because it seems to me that having no data on your devices to steal would be a red flag for the goons. But it goes to show the level of distrust that many now have towards our benevolent and loving Gummint.
If anyone needs to travel internationally by air often, IMNSHO it is worth paying the extra money to get Global Entry. It speeds up the process dramatically, and makes it much less likely that they'll shake you down just because of "reasons". My wife and I have it, and though we seldom travel these days, I'll maintain it for us. I just renewed it two years ago, so I've got three more to go.
But if/when things get weirder, I have to admit that I'll probably start doing the clear/restore thing as well, to minimize the on-the-spot hassle. If they want my cloud data, they probably already have it. But if not, they are welcome to serve me with a subpoena.
Twice bitten, permanently shy.
Hmmm...
I think I might get Global Entry when I start traveling again. Europe, well the Roman ruins there, has been calling my name for a while... Thanks for the idea about Global Entry.
If you're poor now, my friend, then you'll stay poor.
These days, only the rich get given more. -- Martial book 5:81, c. AD 100 or so
Nothing ever changes -- Sima, c. AD 2020 or so
Dunno...
Seems more appropriate to leave at least one file for them to check on the device; that expresses your opinion about surveillance and goon enforcers...
Could get you on a list - or worse - then again, by now *everyone* is already 'on a list'.
I forgot about the
100 miles from the border, etc, DHS jurisdiction. Yea, that's almost everywhere in the usa and yea, that sucks. If I were going to Canada this year, and I'm not, yet, I would be freaking. I guess I would try to leave my electronics home, if possible, or... heh, take a burner!
If you're poor now, my friend, then you'll stay poor.
These days, only the rich get given more. -- Martial book 5:81, c. AD 100 or so
Nothing ever changes -- Sima, c. AD 2020 or so
One of the original
and still valid objections to Real ID is that while it lists things that must be
incorporated, it sets no limits on whatever information/criteria that the govt.
may add to it in the future.
Are only Boomers old enough to remember when an open, demilitarized border with
Canada was promoted as a Good Thing?
Ron Paul on Real ID (2005)
Color me vague
What in hell is real ID? Does this mean our
normal forms of identification no longer pass
the muster? Drivers license, passport and seamen
papers are not valid anymore? What kinda crap is this?
Gold Star and biometric data are the new way to keep
us safe? (Another opportunity for the hackers). Maybe my
birth certificate is no longer valid? Marriage license? Oops,
we can not proceed without AI authorization. Kinda makes
you wonder what happened to freedom. Subcontracted out
to secure sites I suppose.
Zionism is a social disease
It is a new form of
your basic state driver's license- discernable by having a little star icon on the front- and a big blob of QR-like code on the back, as well as a mag stripe, with your facial-recognition biometric data (and various other data, like your SSN and DOB) encoded into it. There are a few other anti-counterfeiting things as well, but that's the gist of it.
It is essentially the same data that they've been putting into the RFID chip in your passport since 1997. I'm kind of surprised that they didn't just go RFID with this as well, since everybody tolerated the passport thing with so little pushback. It is probably because the RFID chips are too fragile to survive in the environment of a billfold...
https://www.dhs.gov/real-id/real-id-faqs
And yes, that means that old pre-Real-ID driver's licenses won't work for boarding airplanes, and who knows what else, post-May-7. For example, you can't get into a dispensary in CO without one- reading that data off the back is how they tell that you are of legal age...
But current, valid passports will always work for travel. I have always carried my passport for all my travel, ever since getting hung up in Montreal for 4 hours and a missed flight back in 1990, because I believed them when they said a driver's license was "good enough"... More fool, me.
From the above-linked site, how to get one:
Twice bitten, permanently shy.
OK, thanks for clueing me in
Will check out the RI DMV site to see what all is involved.
There was a box to check on my previous renewal, but
did not know anything about it, so left it blank. As long as
it doesn't cost an arm and a leg and no blood withdrawals
are involved, will consider it. Getting shot in the eyes is bad
enough.
Zionism is a social disease
Generally, so far, you need Real ID OR as Passport to board an
airplane. That's it as far as I know. My last DL renewal I saaid OK to the real ID in case it got crazier and used my passport as proof of that other shit and my current c/l and a bill of some sort for address.
be well and have a good one
That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --
Doesn't sound too bad yet
but wonder of the implications
trust is a lost art, manipulation
is the new form of weirdness
Zionism is a social disease
My brother in Dallas has big time TDS
and hehad never heard of Real ID before I told him on the phone this morning that I am still a maybe for the family get together next month pending my obtaining a Real ID. He jumped immediately to the conclusion this was more Trump Shit.
Nope, it arose from Shrub 20 years ago with the Dems on board since then.
Within the family, both my brother and my nephew are latecomers to political passion as Donnie Fucknuts has them both breathing fire about him. I'm working up a battery of Trump Jokes to keep them at bay through the weekend.
I cried when I wrote this song. Sue me if I play too long.
Trumpistan and Trumpsicle...
I'm laughing out loud.
If you're poor now, my friend, then you'll stay poor.
These days, only the rich get given more. -- Martial book 5:81, c. AD 100 or so
Nothing ever changes -- Sima, c. AD 2020 or so
Good afternoon, Sima!
I posted something recently about passport and/or Driver's license data would be scanned from your phone, the data being examined, then disappeared after 15 seconds, which means you phone had better be charged.
I believe there is no need to do this, no need to scare us, but if we aren't at least leery of the creepiness, and the possibility that we said something on a social media platform or email that was critical of Israel, only to find out the hard way we are on some terrorist watch list.
I believe this new definition of antisemitism is going to be codified. We will wait and see if it is made a crime going forward, or if it goes back to anything you expressed in the past.
My Global Entry status expired, my passport will soon expire. I haven't left the US since 2020. I haven't flown since then.
Our 1st Am. is losing its' cache'. Hillary even said it is a problem and should be diminished, so the stifling of free and protected speech is absolutely bipartisan.
Thanks for the OT, chica!
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981
What about those of us...
like me, that don't put data on our phones, I mean, personal type data like DL and Passport stuff? Have TPTB thought about that? I dunno. My phone does text messages and games. That's it. I don't buy stuff with it, I don't scan stuff, I don't... bleh. None of those in charge care, I'm sure. As for antisemitism - yea, this is going to be codified, I bet.
Good to see you! Have a good weekend, I hope
If you're poor now, my friend, then you'll stay poor.
These days, only the rich get given more. -- Martial book 5:81, c. AD 100 or so
Nothing ever changes -- Sima, c. AD 2020 or so
What about people who
either do not have cell phones or are techno ignorant?
I am not flying because I am scared of detention, but scared the planes will crash. I never had any fear of flying, but I have a concern now about flukey doors falling off, etc...
Also, I am not comfy that something on my phone from last year might target me upon landing at Heathrow. And if I make into London to a hotel, how comfy will I be engaging in conversations with locals about theirs or mine or other countries? GB is imprisoning people for saying "speak English".
Anyway, you go first, let us know how your trip went.
Go while you can, while you are getting that "call" to check out archeology, sima. Lots of recent finds, especially in Egypt.
Funny...in every single time I have been to Heathrow, I have met the same airport check in guy...a very handsome and distinguished Sikh. At one point, he actually recognized me. ""oh, you." Lol!
Enjoy your weekend. It is, of course, that 3 day thing for me, since all courthouses are closed on Good Friday. I get to sleep late in the morning!
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981
Been there...
I've done that trip - although not all in one go.
Once from Portland, once from Seattle to Montana, once from MT (Whitefish) to Kentucky via Chicago.
Latter was in the weeks before 9/11 - have come to think of it as my Last Trip to America, even though I've been back to the 'Homeland' a few times since.
Had finished up ten years at a job in Japan and headed for Spain. Made a HS reunion in Oregon, saw friends in Portland, kid in Seattle area and drove (faithful Saab 900) to Montana - where my folks were then living, south of Missoula. After a week or so there - a day hike into the Bitterroots, some morel hunting, a chance encounter with George McGovern, got on the Empire Builder at Whitefish and headed east.
Remember being surprised to see one immigration officer at Whitefish - it's not near or closely connected to the border. Anyway, he was simply standing there. Great, if slow trip (it takes all day just to cross Montana). Comfortable ride, mountains along the S. edge of Glacier Park, then wide open spaces... Riding with Swiss and Japanese tourists and a whole gaggle of young Hutterites who got on at Whitefish (there's a large Hutterite colony south of Missoula near Hamilton).
Had just enough time in Chicago to walk (on a beautiful summer day) to the Navy Pier, glimpse a Great Lake and get back to catch a train for Lexington. Then on by rental car to SE KY and my hillbilly relatives. A good old time, all in all.
Flew out to Europe, maybe 5 days before 9/11 - was in an internet cafe and literally the last thing I had done online was read a joke about George Bush having had an implant that detected when brainwave activity was dropping dangerously low that would then kick in with some sort of stimulus to get him going again.
Then, walking out to the front of the shop, what do I see but a TV screen showing a plane crashing into something - first impression being a small plane crashing into an airport control tower.
Well, of course it wasn't, and within days later Dubya had been magically transformed into the courageous leader of the free world...
Well, so much for free. So much for sole global superpower...
Anyhow, hope that lady enjoys her trip. Screw a bunch of surveillance, restrictions on free speech, Real ID, mandatory E-Verify...
Good to see Democrats rediscovering the Constitution. Now, just lose those dumb pronouns - maybe worry more about adjectives. Like their not becoming 'late', 'former','incarcerated'...
BTW - some credit where credit's due - much of what opposition there has been to Real ID over the years has been from libertarianish conservatives and Red states.
Anyhow, happy (and/or constructively pissed off) Lexington and Concord 250th!
Ron Paul on Real ID (2005)
Hell,
I remember going to Canada once, Mexico twice, with no passport at all.
Sigh...
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981