Open Thread - Thurs 13 Feb 2025 - Cease Fire?

Cease Fire? Yea, Right.

So the supposed cease fire in Gaza (yea, right - one of many articles about the multiple failures of the cease fire and how it's really about ethnic cleansing), supposedly orchestrated by Trump, is already going to h*ll in a handbasket, or whatever (yet another example of how it's failing). It's not like we knew this would happen, is it? /* sarcasm */ It's not like it just gave a pause to Israel, so it could ramp up whatever it's going to do now. It's not like Trump is sending Israel stuff (the bulldozers, for example see Caitlin's post linked below) that even Biden didn't send, or maybe Biden's controllers couldn't get that done fast enough.

A week or so ago Chris Hedges wrote a pretty good article about all of this called 'The Western Way of Genocide'. He talks about what Gaza is like now, and it's, frankly, absolutely awful - 9 out of 10 homes destroyed or damaged, hospitals deliberately ruined, the university deliberately bombed into pieces, roads completely destroyed, shops, bakeries, towns obliterated, no food, no clean water, no sanitation, no power, no... nothing. The towns and villages are in rubble; they stink because of all the body parts and corpses underneath the rubble. These are the result of Israel killing at least 14% of Gaza's population, 306,000 people as Donziger writes.


Explore Gaza by Mr. Fish. Image from Hedges' article linked above.

Hedges writes in the article mentioned above:

Israel is convinced, probably correctly, that eventually life in the coastal strip will become so onerous and difficult, especially as Israel finds excuses to violate the ceasefire and resume armed assaults on the Palestinian population, a mass exodus will be inevitable. It has refused, even with the ceasefire in place, to permit foreign press into Gaza, a ban designed to blunt coverage of the horrendous suffering and death

Caitlin has a bit to say in her usual frank and perceptive way:

Trump has continued to push for Jordan and Egypt to take in Palestinians in facilitation of the ethnic cleansing of Gaza, and is adamant that both nations will eventually accede to his demands. The president told the press on Thursday that despite Jordan and Egypt’s rejection of Trump’s plans, “They will do it. They will do it. They’re gonna do it, okay? We do a lot for them, and they’re gonna do it.”
The Trump administration faces many obstacles in trying to force this agenda through, but they do appear committed to the idea that they’re going to be able to see this crime carried out to completion.
Biden destroying Gaza and then Trump working to ethnically cleanse it is such a classic case of the jab-cross combo that Democrats and Republicans employ to advance the agendas of the empire. They don’t just do evil things, they set up the other party to inflict new evils.

Her last paragraph is spot-on. Democrats and Republicans do jab-cross combos to achieve whatever the powers that be want. And peace in Gaza, a place that is Palestinian for the people that live there, is not what those powers want. I've sort of ignored paying attention to this, to all the hoopla in the press about Trump and the cease fire, because I knew it meant nothing really. Just another thing to roll my eyes at. If there was a real ceasefire, if the USA and Europe told Israel to STOP, and really meant it, and took away all the aid and the weapons and the support, I'd maybe believe the news. As it is, not a chance I'm doing that.

Here's the open thread - remember, everything is interesting if you dive deep enough, so tell us about where you're diving!

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Sima's picture

Almost Friday, almost the weekend! Hope that means fun stuff for everyone. Might be snowing here today, we'll see. It won't be much, but it'll be on top of cold frozen ground, so that'll be interesting.

Whatcha up to? Whatcha learning? Hope all is well!

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If you're poor now, my friend, then you'll stay poor.
These days, only the rich get given more. -- Martial book 5:81, c. AD 100 or so
Nothing ever changes -- Sima, c. AD 2020 or so

QMS's picture

.
.
Egypt is amassing forces in the Israel direction, much to Bibi's chagrin.
The forces are being put in high alert readiness for ?? The news is sketchy.
Jordon and Egypt are calling for an emergency summit to discuss recent
developments in Palestine.

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question everything

QMS's picture

.
DOGE now has a website up:
https://doge.gov/regulations
~
Matt Taibbi testifies before congress (again) on censorship:
https://x.com/CitizenFreePres/status/1889878866434596920
~
The Trump administration has frozen funding to the National Endowment for Democracy (NED)
https://news.antiwar.com/2025/02/12/trump-suspends-funding-to-the-nation...

wee haw

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question everything

RFK,Jr. was confirmed as HHS Secretary.
Maybe we can expect our food to be safer. Maybe we can get more research on why one out of every 27 children born in the country is autistic.
Hopefully?
Thanks for the OT. Hedges is always a good read or good watch.

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"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981

QMS's picture

@on the cusp
.
it was better to keep a low profile on this
particular nomination interference? Let it
go, we will still pay you and deal with it later.
Good for RFK, Jr. and probably good for us.
Unlike the Israel lobby, they are able to count
their beans before they hatch. PR nonsense.

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question everything

earthling1's picture

is an apt description of how the two parties function. Looking back in recent history one can see the two are the left and right arm of the same pugilist.
Our battle is to dodge the blows and look for an opening for a knockout strike to the head.
But we need to find the head.
Windblown snow starting to stick and it's 28°.
Thanks for hosting.

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Neither Russia nor China is our enemy.
Neither Iran nor Venezuela are threatening America.
Cuba is a dead horse, stop beating it.

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enhydra lutris's picture

people out and about, as will Saturday and Sunday and then things will quiet down again. Meanwhile, it's mucho rain and NWS flood warnings that include our area and surrounding ares. If we stay home, we will be above all that but my wife has to go down into the flats for a medical appointment today, I have to go down there tomorrow for my infusion, and afterwards we will meet or go together on the margins thereof for dinner.

Sociological observation: We are in an unincorporated town, with several near by in and among moderately small cities and a couple of big ones. My immediate neighborhood and, to some extent, a larger zone around it, has many two car families, the family sedan, often hybrid or electric, and a pick-up truck, usually not. Today, and for the next few days, the pick-ups come out. My wife, for example, announced early today that "i'm going to take the truck today". The sedans, usually the vehicle of choice because of mileage and parkability, will sit idle as, no matter what the task or errand or the family member involved, the pick-ups hit the road and the hell with the mileage issues. Moar ground clearance and puddle tolerance, moar visible, greater field of view because higher up, etc. etc. Kind of funny.

be well and have a good one

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That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

snoopydawg's picture

.

We’re getting a massive snowstorm finally that will last all day, but the wind is blowing so hard the snow is falling horizontally and it makes it 11 degrees. I love walking in the snow, but my face just can’t take the wind.

I haven’t told Sam yet that we are staying home. Hopefully the wind will die down and we can. 20 minutes and the streets and sidewalks are covered.

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Scientists are concerned that conspiracy theories may die out if they keep coming true at the current alarming rate.

enhydra lutris's picture

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That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

enhydra lutris's picture

@enhydra lutris

2,7 six hours ago. They're all clustered a little south of Cal State Hayward. Fairly sharp 'cause only 6 km deep, but still pretty small for us.

be well and have a good one

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That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

QMS's picture

@enhydra lutris

get your neighbors to move!

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question everything

usefewersyllables's picture

Apparently, the USS Harry S. Truman CVN-75 just collided with a bulk freighter (Besiktas-M, Panama flag) off Port Said, Egypt, in the Med. Damage unknown at this time, although the below link says no flooding and under her own power.

Which begs the question- how the hell did a 620-foot bulk freighter even get close enough to a US nuclear aircraft carrier to *collide* with it? Where were the watchstanders on the carrier- and more to the point, where were the watchstanders on all of the escort ships in the carrier's support group?

Hoo boy. A whole bunch of naval officer careers just ended, starting with the Truman's skipper and heading down the list...

https://www.c6f.navy.mil/Press-Room/News/Article/4065260/uss-harry-s-tru...

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Twice bitten, permanently shy.

enhydra lutris's picture

@usefewersyllables

be well and have a good one

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That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

usefewersyllables's picture

@enhydra lutris

Apparently the bulker had just finished a Suez transit. And the Truman had just made a port call at a USN facility in the Med a week or so ago.

The merchant ship involved is identified as the MV Besiktas-M, a Panama-flagged bulk carrier, which had just transited the Suez Canal. It appears the Truman was not broadcasting AIS at the time of the collision...

The carrier had recently made a port visit to U.S. Naval Support Activity Souda Bay on February 6, accompanied by the Arleigh Burke-class guided-missile destroyer USS Jason Dunham.

Bizarre.

https://gcaptain.com/aircraft-carrier-uss-harry-s-truman-involved-in-col...

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Twice bitten, permanently shy.

The rest of the tweet:

There is no emoji to convey the full range of emotions, so I’ll have to use words.

Let me remind you that it was precisely the leaders of EU countries—German Chancellor Angela Merkel and French President François Hollande—who not long ago openly admitted that they never actually intended to implement the Minsk agreements, despite previously assuring the world otherwise. Their official position now is that the Minsk agreements were merely an attempt to rearm Kyiv and “buy it time.”

In other words, they pretended to be working in good faith on the Ukrainian issue while actually engaging in a harmful charade.

The problem is not just that they lied—everyone is used to that by now. The real issue is that they betrayed Europe’s interests, and this betrayal is one of the causes of the current tragedy.

The Minsk agreements became part of international law through their approval by the UN Security Council. This means they were legally binding.

Both Hollande and Merkel, as well as Italy’s leadership, knew this perfectly well then and understand it today. By violating international law—something they now openly admit—EU leaders became key accomplices in the catastrophe that unfolded in Ukraine. As a direct result of their actions, Europe now faces an armed conflict on its own continent. Had the Minsk agreements been implemented, Ukraine would have been saved, and at the same time, the current dire situation of EU citizens—whose well-being has significantly declined due to their leaders’ misguided, and at times outright criminal, decisions—would have been alleviated.

Looking even deeper, this was not only a personal betrayal by these leaders but also a reflection of the complete loss of independence in conducting a “sovereign” foreign policy. The European Union, as an integration bloc, and nearly all of its member states have become an extension of NATO, obediently following Washington’s directives. In this regard, the situation surrounding the sabotage and “investigations” of the Nord Streams is more than revealing.

Further confirming this is the vague comment from NATO Secretary General Mark Rutte about whether Putin’s phone call with Trump constitutes a “betrayal of Ukraine” by the West or not. Both the question and the answer are meaningless.

Let me repeat: The West betrayed Ukraine when it obstructed its democratic transition and independence, interfered in its internal affairs, pitted Ukrainians against Russians, incited Slavs against Slavs, then initiated an unconstitutional coup, lied about implementing the Minsk agreements, and ultimately provoked a bloodbath in the region.“

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snoopydawg's picture

@humphrey

Simplicious puts a huge damper on the Trump/Putin phone call.

Trump did not sell out Ukraine because no deal was made yesterday. Period. Trump said that they would meet in Saudi Arabia, but no to that too. If either of them were serious about ending the war they would have set up a time and place to meet and discuss it.

Simp brings up the Minsk ploy that Russia signed in good faith only to find out that Europe never intended to uphold it and America told Zelensky to ignore it. That’s coming back to bite everyone in the a**. Deal with it. People make a big deal out of Russia taking 3 years to get what it’s gotten now, but remember that Ukraine had 8 years to set up and fortify their defenses and Russia has been destroying them one by one. At a minimum loss of both civilian lives and Russian casualties.

Besides Zelensky isn’t the valid president of Ukraine and he has said no talking to Russia. Elections aren’t going to be held until fall so who would Putin negotiate with?

Hegseth did set some boundaries, but even they aren’t written in stone. But it’s good that we are finally talking with Russia. This war did not need to happen.

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Scientists are concerned that conspiracy theories may die out if they keep coming true at the current alarming rate.

snoopydawg's picture

@snoopydawg

propaganda is. This is what pro Ukraine people believe.

Ukraine, with European support, has enough military resources to hold Russia to current gains and grind them down further. Russia is running out of gas in this war. They can throw people at it forever but they are in bad shape wrt tanks, artillery and everything else they need to go get some more territory. Ukraine has had its losses but not to the same extent as Russia. So if Europe is willing and able to step up, they can replace US aid and keep Ukraine afloat for years.

“Russia is losing hundreds of thousands of soldiers every day and they have to steal washing machines to get chips to make their weapons.”

Now that USAID has been dismantled and the CIA funded news sites are having trouble staying open I’m hoping that people who believe the nonsense will get their eyes opened. They seem to be personally vested in what happens to Ukraine.

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4 users have voted.

Scientists are concerned that conspiracy theories may die out if they keep coming true at the current alarming rate.

QMS's picture

@snoopydawg
.
will not amount to much
the trumpet wants to make a 'deal'
he is on the losing end and Putin knows it
getting Ze out of the negoiations is a good start
as he has no more power without the US.
Biden no longer holds the cards, so peace is
possible.

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question everything

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"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981