Open Thread - Thurs 13 Jul 2023 - Economic Gloom
Economic Gloom:
I was just browsing my emails the other day and came across an article in an email from Alternet. The title of the article interested me, because it seemed as though economist Robert Reich had turned... well, inside out, kinda, blaming Americans for not being more enthusiastic about our supposedly recovering economy. I'm not saying Reich's all that wonderful, but he's often better than almost all other well-known American economists...
Here's the story on Alternet: Robert Reich: A 'general sense of dread' is souring Americans on a strong economy. Doesn't the title make it sound like Robert Reich wrote the piece? And doesn't it make it sound like he's blaming Americans for being sour on such a great economy? Well, it turns out he didn't write the piece and he didn't blame Americans. The Alternet article is a sort of review, linking to a piece by Reich at the Guardian. The Alternet article is not authored by Reich and is rather strange because it seems to blame Americans - at least at first, which Reich didn't do.
The piece Reich wrote is an opinion piece in the Guardian entitled: Why aren’t Americans happier about the economy?: The economy is getting better overall – but as the rich get richer and the poor grow poorer, overall has become a worse gauge of wellbeing. His Guardian piece admittedly does mention a 'general sense of dread' and the 'strong economy' but Reich then goes on to explain why he thinks so many Americans are pessimistic.
Here's the good stuff Reich mentions: more jobs were added in June; 209,000. So we've got a strong jobs market with only 3.6% unemployment. The economy grew by 2% in the first quarter of the year. It was supposed to grow by 1.4%, so we are doing better, supposedly. And, manufacturing investment has grown in the first couple years of the Byedone admin. Inflation on consumer prices is dropping, from 9% a year ago to 4.9% now.
So, I guess those are all good things. I, personally, can't be enthused by inflation now only rising by 5% instead of 9%. Ohh boy. That just means we are starving more slowly, I guess. And Reich admits this. He admits that there's 'a general sense of dread' centering on Donald Trump and authoritarian fascism. And that the climate crisis is really making people worried and scared. And finally he says (and the Alternet article does quote this at the end)
But I think the deeper reason Americans don’t feel very good about the economy is that is that the vast number of working non-college grads – some two-thirds of the adult US population – are still bogged down in dead-end jobs lacking any economic security, while struggling with many costs (such as housing, childcare and education) that continue to soar.In other words, the economy is getting better overall – but overall has become a less useful gauge of wellbeing as the rich get richer, the poor grow poorer, and the working middle is under worsening siege.
I agree with all of this. Jobs matter, prices matter, access to housing, childcare, education, and health care matters. The climate crisis is now verging on terrifying and all the upper class's meetings - COP##, Climate this and that, mean NOTHING about the climate because the governments only make promises which mean NOTHING. I would add that the Demoncrats are doing their own authoritarian fascism. And both sides are actually one side. Maybe people are gloomy because they see this as well? Because there isn't really a lot of hope? What do you think?
So, thanks for reading and here's the open thread - and remember, everything is interesting if you dive deep enough, so tell us about where you're diving!
Comments
Happy Thursday Everyone!
Hope all is well with everyone, and those stuck in the south-west heat zone, or north-east flood zone, aren't doing too badly. We've got tomatoes starting to ripen, have harvested our soft neck garlic; the hard neck garlic is still growing. Onions are getting ready, the first couple lettuce harvests are done... it tastes good here!
So, another thing about Alternet. What's up with Alternet and misleading headlines? Are they running interference for the Byedone government? I admit, I rarely visit the site so I haven't really noticed this before. Maybe it's just that their orientation doesn't fit mine, anymore? Another of their articles really, really got me angry: Why the US must 'respect' Ukraine’s conclusion 'that they need cluster munitions': columnist. They hide in the headline that they are using a piece by Max Boot to support Byedone's sending cluster munitions to Ukraine. Max Boot. Sheez. And no, I didn't read the original; it's behind a paywall AND it's by Max Boot.
I don't give a crap if Ukraine wants cluster munitions. If they do, they can go and frapping buy them, or make them themselves. Grow up, Ukraine. Make or buy your own damned supplies.
Boy, I sure sound like an irritated old git, don't I?
Proud to own it! I hope your Thursday was and is great. Post whatever in the comments, we'd love to read it!
If you're poor now, my friend, then you'll stay poor.
These days, only the rich get given more. -- Martial book 5:81, c. AD 100 or so
Nothing ever changes -- Sima, c. AD 2020 or so
NYU shows how U.S. academia has gone off the deep end
and is now just a mere stable of stooges in the Blob’s propaganda toolbox.
How Mark Crispin Miller was bullied out of the job of teaching a course on propaganda.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qgSp1iFBSno
So sorry for Mark Crispin Miller.
I experienced a bit of this myself when I was in graduate school. I didn't fit the narrative of what some of the anthropology professors wanted. My advisor stood up for me, as did a few others, or I'd have been kicked out. Not because of my grades, but because of what I was interested in studying (Roman Army). Of course, it never went as far for me as it has for Miller, and for others. It's sad that academics can't just teach...
Thanks for stopping by, and for the link. It was a good segment from Jimmy Dore.
If you're poor now, my friend, then you'll stay poor.
These days, only the rich get given more. -- Martial book 5:81, c. AD 100 or so
Nothing ever changes -- Sima, c. AD 2020 or so
John Williams has been someone that WS and most all in
the financial industry follow to a certain extent.
He doesn't believe that the economy is doing well at all
Bolded was my emphasis
http://www.shadowstats.com/
Other than that thanks for the OT, Sima
I never knew that the term "Never Again" only pertained to
those born Jewish
"Antisemite used to be someone who didn't like Jews
now it's someone who Jews don't like"
Heard from Margaret Kimberley
Thanks for the recommendation of another...
economist to explore. I like, and agree with, the bit of his you quoted. Unfortunately, there seems to be something wrong with the php mysql stuff on his site as I get an error when trying to visit https://www.shadowstats.com/ : '/big/dom/xshadowstats/www/Your PHP installation appears to be missing the MySQL.' I'll figure it out soon enough!
He may do this, and I wish other economic experts would do this: Ok, so we have a debt ceiling. Fine, but, instead of kinda abiding by that ceiling by cutting all the help to the poor, to the working classes, to those who need health care and child care and schooling and whatever... why not cut the military budget? Why is that never considered? Maybe he does consider it. That would be cool!
Thanks for the great comment and leading me to a new resource!
If you're poor now, my friend, then you'll stay poor.
These days, only the rich get given more. -- Martial book 5:81, c. AD 100 or so
Nothing ever changes -- Sima, c. AD 2020 or so
Thanks Sima
I wish I could help you with the computer stuff but
that is very low on my list of what I'm capable of
I don't believe that he wants to play the political game
hence no anti war this and that. He's done a great job
crucifying the FED and WS for most everything they tell
us is a great big lie!!
Have a great weekend!!
I never knew that the term "Never Again" only pertained to
those born Jewish
"Antisemite used to be someone who didn't like Jews
now it's someone who Jews don't like"
Heard from Margaret Kimberley
Something that seems to have been forgotten
is that not that long ago it used to be said that the economy had to grow by how many jobs just to cover population growth? 200,000. Well today immigration does that in a couple of hours. So much for "getting better overall".
And what about the people of the Donbas? As I remember not that long ago all they wanted was to go to the store without getting shelled. It seems that the Ukrainian desire to kill whoever they want trumps that.
On to Biden since 1973
Very good points!
So basically the 'job growth' is static or receding, not growing, if we include immigrants (and probably any other group). And the jobs that they are gonna give most immigrants? Many would/will not be done by Americans. Meaning harvest, weeding, agricultural work and more. So those jobs don't really count for 'job growth'. But I bet they are counted!
Ukrainian desire... bleh. Exactly people just wanna go to the store and not get killed.
If you're poor now, my friend, then you'll stay poor.
These days, only the rich get given more. -- Martial book 5:81, c. AD 100 or so
Nothing ever changes -- Sima, c. AD 2020 or so
I believe Reich has been misleading us
because he has been sugarcoating the actions of his boss as our gov't embraced the neolibcon ideology.
Alternet on the other hand has gone all out to push the status quo. The last piece that resonated with me was one in 2013(?) about how the corporate environment crushes innovation. Actually, it doesn't crush it, just makes sure that any innovation is strictly funnelled into profit goals instead of technical or societal innovation that improves our quality of life.
Ahh, sorry, off on a tangent.
I think Reich is a Bernie. If he weren't, he wouldn't be anywhere in the MSM. Oh, like Bernie he's not a quisling because he isn't betraying anyone. He is a contemporary economist. Our economy is pure shit unless you are one of the chosen tribe. And if any establishment economist ever says that, they are thrown off the island.
I don't believe Reich. I agree that the alternet piece might be a hit job. That doesn't lend any credence to what Reich says.
Please be well, Sima.
I think you are right about Reich and..
Alternet. I haven't been paying close attention, but looking at Reich's recent past articles on the Guardian, one has to wonder why he's thought of as 'left' anymore. Maybe because he mentions the little people sometimes? Of course, the Guardian is no far left publication in any way. It's center.
As for Alternet, after the Bernie stuff in 2016, I started ignoring it, but I was on the darned email list and I can't really get off. So once in a while I look at the email they send. Stupid idea. I need to get off the list somehow.
Reich is a Bernie. Did well in thinking earlier in the century, not so great now. Alternet did a hit job on him, but so what? I am just amazed at the propaganda, the way it's so twisted even when an article is gonna be slightly favorable towards TPTB. Thanks for stopping by and the good comment, I love learning!
If you're poor now, my friend, then you'll stay poor.
These days, only the rich get given more. -- Martial book 5:81, c. AD 100 or so
Nothing ever changes -- Sima, c. AD 2020 or so
all I can see financially is
the dollar is weakening at a steady pace since the pandemic madness
mostly everything we need to buy, to survive, is double the dollars
compared to just of a few years ago
inflation? castration? I guess the stock market is flying high
so some are making out like bandits
poverty sucks
Poverty Sucks...
Exactly. And the inflation is just, nuts. Inflating now, for nothing, but making money for big corporations and their stocks. Everything essential is about, as you say, twice what is was before to buy. A couple years ago, 2020 or so, it was 150 to 175$ per week to buy the groceries me and the husband need. Now it's 285 to 325$. For exactly the same thing. It's killing us. It's not like we are making more money to pay for this stuff!
Be well, QMS. Be well.
If you're poor now, my friend, then you'll stay poor.
These days, only the rich get given more. -- Martial book 5:81, c. AD 100 or so
Nothing ever changes -- Sima, c. AD 2020 or so
Good morning Sima. Something somewhere in the back of my
mind is negative about alternet and, then I remember that it is maybe 2 things. It or something similarly named used to be somesort of spambot, flooding one's mailbox with "progressive" ads and petitions and such, from which one could not unsubscribe.
There is also the "progressive" "news" (and opinion) source, which is "progressive" as in Democratic Party. A quickie search confirms confirms the latter is a .org and suggests that I might also be interested in DailyKos. Salon, cnn, Politico and others searches of that general ilk. Uh, sure. It appears that "left leaning" is also used as a descriptor along with "progressive". O suspect that it may be something I blocked at some time in the past.
I can't speak for the populace as a whole, but, what economy would this be that you refer to? I hear no talk of any such thing locally, only of prices, soaring forever upward in the face of stagnant incomes. Is that "the economy" to which reference is being made? If so, it does not appear to be under discussion and especially not in terms of GDP and such. I also hear little, around town and the neighborhood about "de-dollarization", folks seem to be blithely aware that such a thing exists and/or is going on.
Meanwhile, I, the perpetually inexperienced gardener, harvested my soft neck garlic on june 19th and have it "hardening" out in the shed. I harvested roughly 1/2 of my shallots on 6.26 and the other half on 07/03. I think all of the above could maybe have waited a bit longer, but since I have no idea what I'm doing, they're all out of the ground, and awaiting final prep for storage and storage itself. It appears that I can now plant leeks, onions, chilis, squash, broccoli and pole beans, but little else.
Macron seems to desire to poke the bear, having presumably forgotten Bonaparte and Borodino, tsk, tsk. Lethal entertainment these clownish governators seem to favor, but such is always the way of little men with large ambitions. Ah well.
be well and have a good one
That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --
Yes, Alternet is 'left leaning'...
As you say, it just means aligned with the Democrats. Which are not really left-leaning. Just a label for them which means no real action.
I have had the same trouble as you with the email list Alternet has. I can't really get off it, although I've tried. I am going to try again, I've already trashed most of the 'progessive' opinion polls and ads. Although, now supposedly Obama and his wife are sending me some. Really? And why did those idiots get to steal the word 'progressive'? Oh yea, media let them. (sorry, side rant there)
As for 'the' economy, as you say, I think there is more than one economy. One for the really super rich, one for the rich, one for the dwindling middle class and one for the left over 60% or whatever of the country. And if you aren't part of the first two groups, your economy sucks.
So, the key to harvesting garlic is... are the cloves in the garlic head separating? Meaning, is the garlic 'paper' growing in between them, so they can be separated individually from the head after drying? If so, the garlic is ready to harvest, doesn't matter what time of year the calendar sez it is. Plant everything you can! We can't plant onions anymore, well not for this year. We'll have sweet onions (walla wallas) to plant in a couple months. Leeks, same way. They'll overwinter. Broccoli, squash, etc can still be planted. We won't plant anymore peppers/chilis but.. the pepper plants in the greenhouse are getting to be about 3 feet tall and full of fruit and flowers. It's so cool how growing in different areas leads to different times and produce. Thanks for sharing all of that!
Have a great weekend!
If you're poor now, my friend, then you'll stay poor.
These days, only the rich get given more. -- Martial book 5:81, c. AD 100 or so
Nothing ever changes -- Sima, c. AD 2020 or so
What a novel idea. A diplomat who believes in diplomacy rather
than bullying.
Diplomacy...
Who'd have thought? As for bullying, it's the way of empires, especially as they are failing. One would think diplomacy would be more effective, but I guess not
If you're poor now, my friend, then you'll stay poor.
These days, only the rich get given more. -- Martial book 5:81, c. AD 100 or so
Nothing ever changes -- Sima, c. AD 2020 or so
Got to keep the boss happy!
What the heck?
'Higher minimum wages may increase homelessness'? Have any of these idiots even tried to get a 'home' nowadays? A one bedroom? Or studio apartment in the bad part of town, badly kept up, and costs so much you have to have two jobs to live in it!?!?! Sheez.
I'm glad I don't read the Washington Post. I think I'd have gone on a rampage if I did... Thanks for paying attention to this stuff.
If you're poor now, my friend, then you'll stay poor.
These days, only the rich get given more. -- Martial book 5:81, c. AD 100 or so
Nothing ever changes -- Sima, c. AD 2020 or so
If there is a lack of enthusiasm about the economy, could it be
that there is nothing to be enthused about. I keep reading about how good Bidenomics is. All I see is not raising taxes on the rich, sending all the money to Ukraine, and not even doing simple things which would help people, like raising minimum wage and food stamps.
Hell, I did better under Trump. At least he sent me 3 checks and raised food stamps where every single person who qualified got $200.00 a month. That's only $50.00 a week. Every president, including Republicans raised minimum wage until Obama. I'm retired but I see everyday people who need help, and not just the homeless. And less places to get any help. So where's this great economy?
the economy is not great
except for the already wealthy
and they don't need it to be rich
apparently the donor class which owns
exec, legislate and justice are not
much interested in our plight
therefore we suffer
Bidenonomics...
Seems to be the same old, same old. Which is not surprising, he was/is after all one of the main pushers of said economic goals. Lots for the very rich, little for the everyone else. Lots for the military industrial complex and war, nothing for feeding starving people, making it so families don't have to live in cars, education, good jobs... Bleh.
I wish I knew where the great economy is. That's why I think Reich's points about Bidenonomics are dumb. Our whole system is dumb. I think the 'great economy' is at Davos and in those people's minds.
Thanks for stopping by and commenting. I agree!!
If you're poor now, my friend, then you'll stay poor.
These days, only the rich get given more. -- Martial book 5:81, c. AD 100 or so
Nothing ever changes -- Sima, c. AD 2020 or so
Calling our economy "recovering" is insulting to the 99%.
A few people got minimum wage jobs. Whoopee.
Ya know, people around here have stopped gardening because it quadruples their water bill, making the food they produce more expensive than what they can guy at the grocery store.
More and more clients are seeking payment plans.
One tell about the real economy is how many fairly new vehicles I see with dents and dings. People can't afford the body work, just barely able to afford the vehicle and cheap liability insurance.
The busiest stores in towns all across the state are resale shops. Or, pawn shops.
Government sees and knows that prices for every day goods and services are inflated by price gouging, and they do nothing. Businesses are praised for their free market practices.
People cannot afford to see a dr., or fill a prescription. Foreclosures and evictions are very common.
The stock market might be making gains, but that has little bearing on the escalating poverty of our population.
Oh, well...There is no way to fix it.
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981
No way to fix it...
sad, but definitely true in this government and country. It's gonna take the pitchforks, the guns, and the rich guy at the top telling the others they gotta make changes or they will all hang when the little guys come after them (right FDR?). And because money is created and easily given to the military industrial complex, it'll probably take war, unless the soldiers refuse to fight for their military bosses.
Enough of that. I wanna see more 'banana boat' stories and their ilk!!
If you're poor now, my friend, then you'll stay poor.
These days, only the rich get given more. -- Martial book 5:81, c. AD 100 or so
Nothing ever changes -- Sima, c. AD 2020 or so
I want better, Sima.
I want the best outcome from whatever and however we go forward, and I hope it will be peaceful.
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981
Back in Obama times
the "Great Recession" was declared over in around 6 months, because recessions are over when Wall St. has x number of positive quarters. For the rest of us it lasted a decade. Don't listen to economists for anything. Because they deal with the macro economy, they work for the wealthy. We're just another raw material to exploit.
The way to fix it? Take away their wealth, cut off their thumbs and tell them to repent. Worth a try.
Snode,
it worked before...just sayin'
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981
What do *I* think?
I can't wait for the now-chronic top-down violence that's been escalating steadily and relentlessly for over 20 years to FINALLY be met with the Hammurabian retaliation it deserves.
Speaking of Hammurabi, The Inventor of Government went on record as saying,
It seems to me to have not only failed in that duty, but routinely so for millennia, and to the GREATER detriment of the "powerless"; so what now?
In the Land of the Blind, the One-Eyed Man is declared mentally ill for describing colors.
Yes Virginia, there is a Global Banking Conspiracy!
I think, people being people...
that no matter how the government starts, it ends up being for the powerful (even if those people, or their families/class/friends, started out poor and powerless). Sad, but, history says, true. I wonder how to change that, how to get that out of the system?
This is also what I tend towards, from time to time, 'I can't wait for the now-chronic top-down violence that's been escalating steadily and relentlessly for over 20 years to FINALLY be met with the Hammurabian retaliation it deserves.' On the other hand, I want the best outcome, hopefully peaceful, like OTC says. But perhaps the Hammurabian retaliation is the best outcome?
If you're poor now, my friend, then you'll stay poor.
These days, only the rich get given more. -- Martial book 5:81, c. AD 100 or so
Nothing ever changes -- Sima, c. AD 2020 or so
Nowadays,
to suggest the rich should be taxed to spread the wealth to everyone, is tantamount to being a commie. And being lazy, wanting something for nothing. Reagan's pulling yourself up by the bootstraps, a reiteration of the Puritan work ethic, not only twisted our modern society, but our twisted society managed to twist societies globally.
FDR had a good shot at destroying capitalism, decided his job was to save it.
I can't think of a peaceful revolution.
Ah, Bastille Day. Good times!
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981
Peaceful revolution will take a miracle.
Do I believe in miracles? As a matter of fact, yes I do: As my father (a scientist) explained to me long ago, literally anything is possible, it's just most things are INCREDIBLY improbable...so while it's stupid not to acknowledge the possibility of miracles, it's blasted foolish to rely on them.
Like I and others have said before, they've spent the last 60 years working relentlessly to make peaceful revolution, even the kind the American government was designed from the get-go to self-inflict as a matter of course, impossible - if they've indeed succeeded, you know what's next.
In the Land of the Blind, the One-Eyed Man is declared mentally ill for describing colors.
Yes Virginia, there is a Global Banking Conspiracy!