9/18 Open Thread: Food or fad, What's on your plate?

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fresh-sourdough-batard-1

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There's been a lot of talk of late of diets and dietary impact on health and all that, here and elsewhere. It isn't a new phenomena, just one that seems to be increasing or accelerating, in part driven, it seems, by an increase of studies and studies coming to fruition, especially with respect to the gut biome, epigenetics, and other areas only relatively recently delved into. I figured I might as well pitch in, simply because I may have some insights, and do have some tales to tell, if I can figure out how best to do so. So, I'll start with the big attention getter for USians -- a while ago I lost a little over 50 pounds in about 6 months and kept it off, almost half-ways painlessly. I used a very special diet that turns out to also be an ancient and surprisingly widely practiced one, the diet of my ancestors, so to speak, the diet of my people.

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I think I was already indulging in said diet when, wandering through Costco one day, I passed somebody handing out samples of a wonderful new food/diet item explaining that yes, they had a veggie version, and not just one, but several, there was a ovo, lacto, something, veggie bar and many more. It occurred to me that that was sort of where I was, I was kind of an ovo, lacto, pescado, bacon, carno, poultry, jamon, et. al. vegetarian. But, since I am a simple person, I felt that there should be an easier way to describe my diet than by exception, and casting my mind back to the days when I was concerned with the eating habits of a wide range of animal types, it hit me -- I was an omnivore. Doesn't that have a nice ring to it?

"Hey dude, whatta you eat?"

FOOD.

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That reminded me that I had once read some brilliant dietary advice, which I looked up and found to be attributed to Michael Pollan, “Eat food. Not too much. Mostly plants.” That was me. Everything else gets too confusing. At that time, I focused largely on the "Not too Much", and felt that "food" was simply intended to exclude twinkies. More on that later. The complications come from all of the vast sources of information on just what foods to eat that are floating around and often contradicting one another. My sourdough bread is fermented food, hence a natural wonder drug, panacea, cure all and health supplement; but it's fermented wheat flour, oh my god no, anathema, the deadliest of the killer grains. Beans are a good healthy source of many things, and I love and eat a lot of them. Lectins, however, are deadly killers, to be avoided at all costs. Beans are, of course, full of lectins. Eat more grains, avoid grains like the plague, more beans but no lectins. But wait, brown rice is a grain, dammit, haven't you read You Are All Sanpaku? Was it too far before your time, or simply too zen, too hippy, too out there restrictive? Go read it. OTOH, is not All things in moderation ancient wisdom? I remembered that in my youth I had eaten a ton of brown rice, because of the miracle of lacking money. You could get 50 pounds of it on wholesale for just about nothing. Roast or boil a chicken, strip and shred it, add a bunch of cheap veggies and mix it with a ton of cooked brown rice and you had meals for a month if you had a freezer compartment up to the task. Yep, the historic diet of my people, the laboring class, the universal poor, nothing is prohibited, but everything is scarce. Today this is called portion control.

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There came a time when I got horribly ill with the "damned if I knows" - they didn't even have a named syndrome for it, let alone a disease. I began to evaporate and turned to a program called "My Fitness Pal" to try to make sure that I got adequate nutrients while sticking to a limited selection of foods that would stay in my system for at least an hour or two. I eventually beat it, whatever it was, and eventually got seriously overweight. (Wouldn't you?) So, to lose weight I went back to that same program and told it I needed to lose a couple of pounds a week and get down to a target weight by some specified date (it was all pretty arbitrary on my part) and that I led a completely, totally sedentary lifestyle. It didn't prohibit anything, but set minimums for various broad food categories and nutrients, as well as upper limits on things like calories, fats, sugars, carbs, sodium, and I forget what all. I more or less stuck to it and started walking 5 miles per day. Veggies, starches, oils, fats, bacon, pizza, bread, chocolate, whatever, just somewhere around my calorie limit (which was somehow tied to the basal metabolic rate as a sedentary person my size) and walked and walked and walked. I got so damn healthy and invigorated and enthusiastic that I started injuring myself, strains, sprains, pulled muscles, hernias - it's actually funny. So ok, failure to warm up, not simply daily, but as to a lifestyle of seriously increased activity levels period. So that's the magic diet - caloric output at somewhat seriously in excess of caloric input, call it the ditch-diggers' diet. That weight loss was a bit over a year ago and it has stayed off in spite of injuries periodically putting a big crimp in my exercise routine. Simple portion control. I have since learned that Mr. Pollan has 7 rules and they're pretty good, and I kind or unknowingly followed them, but all things Foods in moderation works for me.

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One thing I've noticed about the ever growing mountain of dietary advice is the ever growing list of prohibited foods (many of which are recommended by other diet/food/health experts.) This is but one reason why I advocate all foods in moderation and all food and diet advice with a grain of salt (while still restricting one's salt intake, of course). Of course, I am first and foremost an empiricist, so I have other rules, like if you get those sharp needle like feelings in your tongue, spit it out. Don't continue trying things which seem to disagree with you, there's plenty of stuff out there. So, that brings us to toxins, beans, tomatoes, potatoes, cauliflower and broccoli, walnuts - all toxic. So what. In moderation they've never killed people or their gut biomes. So many hold vegetarianism to be the epitome of general diet principles, even though veggies are toxic. Fruits and Vegetables Are Trying to Kill You is the title of an article by Moises Velasquez-Manoff who is a science writer and author of An Epidemic of Absence: A New Way of Understanding Allergies and Auto immune Diseases. The article on veggies as would be assassins was published in Nautilus on July 17, 2014, and may be found here: http://nautil.us/issue/15/turbulence/fruits-and-vegetables-are-trying-to... . It is a deep dive into the world of anti-oxidants, vitamins, food supplements, natural plant toxins and much more, and every body really should read it twice. Like all else, plant toxins, in moderation, are good for you and completely suppressing them erases some of the benefits of eating veggies in the first place. Here's the sub-title: Antioxidant vitamins don’t stress us like plants do—and don’t have their beneficial effect. I've saved it and plan on rereading it yet again. I really think that this is a biggie that hasn't yet had the attention that it deserves.

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Back to Michel Pollan, who famously aid to eat food. He meant it. For example food isn't nutrients. We are very complex systems in symbiosis or at lest partnership with another complex system, our biome. A single carrot's worth of beta-carotene, in the matrix and environment of the totality of that carrot, when and ingested and processed, is almost certainly not exactly the same in its effect on our body and genome as the same amount of beta-carotene extracted, purified and injected into a baked potato, or mixed into some wasabi. Yes, it is good to understand our food and what it does and how, but chasing nutrients, in the abstract, is off base, as the article noted above by Moises Velasquez-Manoff also points out. At any rate, his "Eat Food. Not too Much. Mostly Plants." exhortation is 7 words and he also has 7 rules for healthy eating, which I copied off of Web MD (here: https://www.webmd.com/food-recipes/news/20090323/7-rules-for-eating#1 )

1. Don't eat anything your great grandmother wouldn't recognize as food. "When you pick up that box of portable yogurt tubes, or eat something with 15 ingredients you can't pronounce, ask yourself, "What are those things doing there?" Pollan says.

2. Don’t eat anything with more than five ingredients, or ingredients you can't pronounce.

3. Stay out of the middle of the supermarket; shop on the perimeter of the store. Real food tends to be on the outer edge of the store near the loading docks, where it can be replaced with fresh foods when it goes bad.

4. Don't eat anything that won't eventually rot. "There are exceptions -- honey -- but as a rule, things like Twinkies that never go bad aren't food," Pollan says.

5. It is not just what you eat but how you eat. "Always leave the table a little hungry," Pollan says. "Many cultures have rules that you stop eating before you are full. In Japan, they say eat until you are four-fifths full. Islamic culture has a similar rule, and in German culture they say, 'Tie off the sack before it's full.'"

6. Families traditionally ate together, around a table and not a TV, at regular meal times. It's a good tradition. Enjoy meals with the people you love. "Remember when eating between meals felt wrong?" Pollan asks.

7. Don't buy food where you buy your gasoline. In the U.S., 20% of food is eaten in the car.

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That just scratches the surface, but, again, it is short and simple. I used to say that beverages weren't food, but that's not true; any old country Italian will tell you that wine is food and I know for certain that fresh squeezed orange juice is food. That said, soda/pop, special flavored waters, energy drinks and all that stuff, as well as "fruit juices" that are mostly water and high fructose corn syrup aren't food. Pills loaded full of lactobacillus aren't food either. As Mr. Pollan has correctly said, foods aren't merely containers or delivery vehicles for the various chemical components of which they are made. With that said, please note a major non-food in our diets - refined sugar. It is in nearly all processed foods and many that we don't think of as such. It makes sense, it is addictive. Our sourdoughs have no sugar, but I can taste the sugar in most grocery store bread when we have to buy some on the road or something. We once had a bread machine - it's in the garage somewhere - most recipes called for sugar, yeast breads usually do. We both binge on candy and cookies and cakes now and then, but try to avid processed sugar and it is generally horrible stuff. TAles and studies recounting its horribleness abound and I will provide you with one more: https://getpocket.com/explore/item/how-giving-up-refined-sugar-changed-m... . That isn't too long and is a good read. There are those who contend that sugar is sugar, which is probably true in test tubes, but not in our digestive system. Processed sugars aren't food, they were extracted from food. More than anything, sugar is our household dietary problem, the one guilty ingredient in our lives, not any of the other alleged toxins. Ah well, and all the same ....

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So, remember, older cultures knew a lot that they learned the hard way, and they left that knowledge behind in their diets and foods. Indians in parts of the US had the 3 sisters, others ate nopales, and it turns out that a partial return to these dietary elements can alleviate certain illnesses and ailments they are prone to when consuming our modern western diet. With that said, I'd like to point out that the Maya knew with certainty that chocolate was the food of the gods, but they didn't load it up with processed sugar either. Just sayin'.

Title Image is fresh sourdough batard 1; author's photo of author's loaf

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It's an open thread, so have at it. The floor is yours
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QMS's picture

Morning all. Enjoyed the 3 sister idea...

3sisters.jpg
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question everything

enhydra lutris's picture

@QMS

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That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

Eat less, do more. It works.

Even fad diets of all sorts work well enough if these two precepts are included in their regimen. Each to his own, in moderation. The most difficult part of any self improvement program is remembering to stick with it.

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“The story around the world gives a silent testimony:
— The Beresovka mammoth, frozen in mud, with buttercups in his mouth…..”

The Adam and Eve Story, Chan Thomas 1963

enhydra lutris's picture

@ovals49 @ovals49
Originally my exercise plan was like yours, just keep busy working i and on the house and yard and time permitting, make or fix stuff in my shop. I started the walking thing because it is easy to measure and gets mostly done in bits and pieces while doing chores and stuff. These days I actually focus more on keeping active and keeping my activity time up and my sitting time down, but I find that I can get caught up in reading or other sedentary tasks and blow right through an hour or two straight unless I set targets.

Have a good one

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That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

I can't keep up with all the new Best Diet in the World trends.
I follow the Pollan regimen, although I have never heard of it before. A lucky accident.
I do not have an exercise regimen, just have a very physically active life. Lots of walking, lifting, bending, just in the course of getting through an ordinary day.
My weight is within 10 lbs. of the magic ideal, and I do not take any medicine of any kind for any diagnosed condition.
I work 7 days a week, sometimes up to 12 hours a day.
I am 67.

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"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981

enhydra lutris's picture

@on the cusp
yours, I rarely just set out and go walk x miles or anything, it's just a target that I meet with all my ordinary activity and maybe a little extra walking to catch up if I've been too stationary too much during the day. For example, yesterday I did a lot of sawing and similar stuff, which is not really all that active because it mostly involves standing in one palce in front of the saw double and triple checking measurements, settings and cut lines and then cutting, so I take a few laps around the yard to make up for it.

Have a good one.

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That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

mhagle's picture

Several years ago I read "100 days of Real Food" https://www.100daysofrealfood.com/ whose author followed those principals for 100 days with her family. Now they do it all the time.

I am trying to work that way for my family by cooking more from scratch. None of them are converts to these principals, but if I cook something delicious, most will eat it. My 18 year old son however, is on a diet of cornbread, beans, vienna sausages, and cheese. Every evening. He only eats once a day and maintains a serious workout schedule. Have not gotten him to eat my food.

I have a traditional pasta maker, but it is too much trouble. Found an inexpensive one:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Stainless-Steel-Fresh-Pasta-Noodle-Maker-Press-...

I like this kind much better! You just put in the dough and squeeze the noodles directly into boiling water. Just done white flour noodles so far, but plan to try other grain and veggie combinations.

Also, would love to learn to make your sour dough but have a recipe that uses the bread machine I like. It uses a tablespoon of brown sugar. Not too offensive. But I have tried all sorts of combinations of different flours and seeds successfully. I let it kneed and rise in the bread machine, but cook two Italian type loaves in the oven. Brush them with egg after rising but before cooking. 25 minutes at 375.

Put in bread machine in this order. 1 1/4 warm water, 1 egg, 1 1/2 teaspoon olive oil, 4 cups flour, 1 1/2 teaspoon salt, 1 tablespoon brown sugar. 1 packet of yeast.

Put corn meal on a cookie sheet. After bread machine, turn out dough on a floured surface. Divide into two loaves on the cookie sheet.

I like your seven principals!

At 8:30 I leave to take son to take his first GED exam. Social studies. That is his "thing" so he ought to do well. This is the main reason I am not participating at c99 so much this year. Busy creating math tests, etc.

Wishing you all a great week!!

I-m so happy

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Marilyn

"Make dirt, not war." eyo

enhydra lutris's picture

@mhagle
extrusion style pasta machines that I eventually broke. Now I just make my dough in a food processor and use an old Atlas hand crank unit to make cut pasta or sometimes roll by hand and cut with a knife. I have two recipes, one involving sourdough and have trouble with texture and such if I introduce too much whole grain flower, but I've become pretty good at incorporating vegetable matter, like using greens to make green pasta. I have hand formed tube pastas, but it is really time consuming, so I rarely do it. We cheat and keep some organic store bought pasta with just flour and water or flour, egg, and water around for days when we don't need the hassle of making our own, or when out camping.

Have a good one.

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That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

mhagle's picture

@enhydra lutris

My mom rolled out and cut egg noodles for chicken soup. I don't know what the Altas thingie majobber is though. Cool reply.

A big deal for our family . . . son got a 97 (missed one) on the test. He'll get college credit for it. Really boosted his confidence. He has been homeschooled/unschooled since 6th grade because of his dyslexia.

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Marilyn

"Make dirt, not war." eyo

Thanks for the OT. Three sisters stew is my go to meal for THANKSGIVING, the sisters being butternut squash, corn and beans.

When I visited my sister's house she had Pollan's seven rules posted on her wall. Have to agree. Your thoughts on diet pretty much mirror mine but have never tried bread making. Looks great.

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Life is what you make it, so make it something worthwhile.

This ain't no dress rehearsal!

enhydra lutris's picture

@jakkalbessie
for thanksgiving, it creates a mental link to the victims thereof. Wink We have family over, and they expect a more "traditional" meal so I roast an organic free range turkey (costs a small fortune) on a Weber kettle grill, but we try to keep our side dishes healthy and simple, so it isn't too outre'.

Once one gets the routine down, the bread is somewhat straightforward, but it takes a looong time, most of which is waiting. The real trick is keeping one's starter really happy, which requires a lot of attention and either throwing a lot of it out, or making very frequent use of small amounts, which I do by making individual sized savory super-pancakes, mini flatbread pizzas, calzones and stuff like that on a regular basis. (I go through a lot of shrooms.)

Have a good one.

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That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

smiley7's picture

A delightful read this morning, brought grins, thank you.

Many a long conversation Pollan inspired between my son and I back in his chef days.

Are There Any Foods You Won’t Eat?

Feedlot meat. And tomatoes that have been in the refrigerator. ~ Pollan

Hey, i need to get a new sourdough starter going; over the years i've used grapes, potato water, yeast and such, do you have a good recipe and do you add rye flower?

Thanks again for a great start to this day.

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enhydra lutris's picture

@smiley7 @smiley7
my wife and I both made sourdough (back when we met). I don't know where she got her starter, I made mind from some old recipe that I don't recall. We both eventually let those starters die. Years later somebody brought her a small sample of a starter used by one of the name sourdough bakeries in San Francisco, she cloned it for me, and off we went, That was many years ago, and we use different refresh frequencies and techniques and thus now have different starters.

As for the bread itself, I add no rye. My wife doesn't really like rye, and we both take turns baking for the house, so I leave it out. The recipe for that loaf, as I make it (she weighs her inputs) is 1c Red Mill Whole Wheat flour, 2.5 c King Arthur Bread flour and 1/2 T sea salt, all mixed together in the bowl of a stand mixer. We always use a freshly refreshed starter and "mix" 1/4 cup into 2.5 cups warmed purified water. I put mix in quotes because if it is really hot starter it mostly floats. That is dumped into the flour, mixed with the paddle, and then kneaded with the dough hook until it completely pulls away from the bowl. Transfer to a large lightly oiled glass bowl, cover with a plastic bag, and let it rise 10 - 14 hours (usually overnight on the stove with the range hood lights on). It should be at least double in volume, usually more. Next it's dumped on a floured counter and stretched and folded a few times, covered and allowed to rest 15 minutes, formed into a rough loaf and transferred to a proofing basket lined with parchment paper (we used to use a lightly floured towel), covered with plastic and let rise for another 1.5 hours. We bake two loaves at a time, one in an old earthenware covered baker and one in a bread baker/cloche from Breadtopia. They go into the oven which is preheated at 500 for about 45 minutes with them in it, then the loaves are taken from the proofing baskets, scored on top, dumped in the bakers and baked for 1/2 hour at 500. Drop the temp to 450 and bake another 15 min and let cool down to room temp before trying to cut.

Breadtopia (i think .com) has a section on a "no-knead" artisan sourdough, which is more or less what we do. He has a video that shows the fold and stretch process, which he does but once, but I tend to add a couple of extra stretches, including one incorporated in the final load formation process.

Have a good one.

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That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

@enhydra lutris
Hot out of the oven!
E9E960F9-5210-46C7-B51C-A9A5811418A8.jpeg @enhydra lutris

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“The story around the world gives a silent testimony:
— The Beresovka mammoth, frozen in mud, with buttercups in his mouth…..”

The Adam and Eve Story, Chan Thomas 1963

enhydra lutris's picture

@ovals49

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That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

Most deaths in the United States are preventable, and related to nutrition. According to the most rigorous analysis of risk factors ever published, the Global Burden of Disease study, funded by the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation, the number one cause of death in the United States, and the number one cause of disability in this country, is our diet—which has bumped tobacco smoking to number two. Smoking now only kills about a half million Americans every year, whereas our diet now kills hundreds of thousands more.

How Smoking in 1959 is Like Eating in 2019

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enhydra lutris's picture

@i dunno
reading and have a good one.

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That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

Anja Geitz's picture

Good morning. Everything in moderation is a good message for us all. Wish I had heeded it yesterday. After 10 days of eating low/no salt in preparation for my big weigh in on Monday, I indulged yesterday in what started out as a bowl of pistachio nuts, but throughout the day became a bag of pistachio nuts. This morning I woke up with what you might call a bit of a "hangover". Won't be doing that again. I feel just awful. Sad

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There is always Music amongst the trees in the Garden, but our hearts must be very quiet to hear it. ~ Minnie Aumonier

enhydra lutris's picture

@Anja Geitz @Anja Geitz
is soooo hard to stop. Sorry to hear of your plight.

Have a good one.

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That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

Anja Geitz's picture

@enhydra lutris

A little celery juice, an antioxidant smoothie, and some exercise and I feel a little better.

Lesson learned.

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There is always Music amongst the trees in the Garden, but our hearts must be very quiet to hear it. ~ Minnie Aumonier

magiamma's picture

et al

Great ot. I listen to my body and that seems to work. Eat a little meat, eggs and a a bunch of veggies and grains. Very little sugar an very little alcohol at this point. Reduced both because my body likes it better without. There's always more to learn and adjust. My first book was Back to Eden. The first section in it is age old wisdom an then there's a bunch about herbs. I think of food as medicine, eat organic, and combine proteins. Thanks so much for all the info. Lots to think on. Bookmarked. Have a good evening...

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enhydra lutris's picture

@magiamma
night.

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That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --