We're going to support only Democrats because...
because why?
Has anyone really asked this of Bernie or the Bernie people or Justice Democrats/ Our Revolution/ Brand New Congress/ Coalition to Promote Maybe You Get A Little Something For Your Tax Dollars?
Are any of those organizations planning to support any candidate anywhere (outside of Bernie, but only technically) who isn't a Democrat?
What's the counter-argument? "Yeah, you see, because after the first few hundred betrayals the folks who run the party will let up. It's in their contracts y'know." Make them actually voice that, or something like that.
In that regard I enjoyed reading this piece:
The Democratic party is undermining Bernie Sanders-style candidates
You've no doubt read the reportage on this one before. The fun thing about Jamie Peck's piece here is in how Tom Perez and the rest of those hacks are so thoroughly denied therein. It should be clear by this point that the Democrats will lose every seat in every legislature in America before letting you and yours have one of them. They think of the Bernie people as the enemy, so in that sense they're paying attention. Are the Bernie people paying attention?
Ask the Bernie people this: do you really need to see the full demonstration to be convinced?
Not enough evidence y'know. More research! Isn't that what the Bush administration said about climate change?
Comments
They so lost me a while back with their warmongering
then they picked a candidate from neo-con central to be their candidate for president.
Now I regard them as part of the problem.
@LaFeminista You mean you don't
You mean you don't support starting a shooting war with another nuclear-armed superpower? How unpatriotic of you.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
Just call me an Un-American Traitor
Democrats got most upset when I objected to Obama's expansion of war and war crimes.
@LaFeminista Russian stooge. Or
Russian stooge. Or are you just a Useful Idiot?
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
With a first name of Alessandra I'll take the former
@LaFeminista
да товарищ
Da, tovarishch!
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
@LaFeminista As to Obama, you
As to Obama, you weren't supposed to notice he was doing that. It's like calling attention to the fact that the most socially influential church lady's undies are showing at Morning Prayer.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
The Emperor is fully clothed, I tell you!
Let no one say otherwise!
"The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power. Now do you begin to understand me?" ~Orwell, "1984"
@Lily O Lady
Presumably in '... the most socially influential church lady's undies ...' which were showing?
Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.
A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.
It has been my experience
that socially influential church lady's undies are either crotchless or absent.
There is no such thing as TMI. It can always be held in reserve for extortion.
@ghotiphaze Wow. Now I'm
Wow. Now I'm curious as to your experience.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
@ghotiphaze
I gather they're absent because the emperor is wearing them...
Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.
A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.
@Ellen North LOL.
LOL.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
Yes, and that worked really well in Kansas
where the putrescent Pompeo nearly got voted out of office by a decent Dem the DNC made an undeniable decision to avoid both funding and other support.
Interesting too that lots of people in Colorado who voted for the Establishment person and Colorado Care didn't seem to know that the anti-Colorado Care faction was richly funded by groups closely allied with Her.
I don't like the answer, but here it is.
Far be it for this idealist to be pragmatic, but I don't think anyone but a Democrat or Republican can win. The couple of Independents and a libertarian/socialist here or there are the exceptions that prove the rule.
The Green/Libertarian Parties have no legs. Bernie destroyed the movement he built by dropping out and endorsing Hillary. Besides Our Revolution, I don't even know if any the others you mentioned even gave the guy in Kansas a dime. There is no opposing force in this country worth a damn. Tea Party, omfg, is as close to a revolution and uprising as it gets. I am as frustrated as you with our impotence, and I think it is just too damn bad for us. What these groups do or don't do isn't going to matter squat.
We helped to take the Clintons down. That was huge. What did it change? The closest we got to power was in 07/08 when the lefty bloggers took out Lieberman, got taken to lunch in Harlem, and sold us out.
"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon
You have one interpretation
My personal viewpoint was different than that so FWIW, here's what guided my donations or lack thereof. None of those groups got any money from me even though I theoretically like their stances. All of them are way too cuddly with the Democratic party for me to send dollars to.
I like their professed stances but it was flat-out guilt by association for me. I don't begrudge them their work. My attitude is attacks on the party from both inside and outside are valuable. But I've already decided that I prefer to work the outside route which is, as I see it, to deprive them of votes wherever possible and, while doing so, to do what I can to convince other people... liberal and conservative alike, that the whole game is rigged.
A lot of wanderers in the U.S. political desert recognize that all the duopoly has to offer is a choice of mirages. Come, let us trudge towards empty expanse of sand #1, littered with the bleached bones of Deaniacs and Hope and Changers.
-- lotlizard
"I prefer to work
the outside route which is, as I see it... to do what I can to convince other people... liberal and conservative alike, that the whole game is rigged."
Me, too.
Denying The Establishment the vote is also important. But, I'll be taking it to the streets this Spring, Summer, to view the lay of the land, who's in, who's out.
Two questions on a clipboard:
Do you favor the Trump presidency?
If no, would you spend some time with people like you that are interested in getting their government back?
the little things you can do are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-2.1) All about building progressive media.
It seems pretty clear to me
The Democrats have no intention of ever changing, as you point out. While I think it would be great if one of these efforts would succeed, I think they are ultimately excersises in futility. At best, these things look hopelessly naive to me but at worst, because of the refusal to look outside the Democrats, they end up looking a little sheepdoggish. I really don't know what the answer is, but limiting us to voting for Democrats, and continuing to elect bad Democrats just because they have a D after their name, doesn't seem the way.
Idolizing a politician is like believing the stripper really likes you.
Exactly. One of the
answers is to replace currently seated Dems with Bernicrats, eventually overtaking the party by replacing all corporate Dems with Berniecrats.
The other, of course, is to build a new more progressive party.
I think both can work together, side by side. Whichever "side" working better would then be joined by the other. I have no dog in that fight. I don't care which "side" wins, just that we do.
the little things you can do are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-2.1) All about building progressive media.
"I don't care which "side" wins, just that we do."
Perfect! That's exactly why I don't care for political brand loyalty. Unfortunately, that seems to be all the current Democrats have (just like their Republican counterparts.) Here's hoping somehow we can put the fear of the voters back in them.
Idolizing a politician is like believing the stripper really likes you.
I think we have to
do it door-to-door. I wish there were another way, what with all this newfangled "technology," but, despite all the technology most people seem to be clueless as to what's going on. So... if there's another way besides door-to-door, well, I'll try anything. Hell, I'm old. The last thing I want to do is hobble around the neighborhood with a clipboard. But I see no other way. And, guess what? Yes, sadly, you and I have been "volunteered." I know, right?! First thing I thought was, you gotta be kidding me. But, we're it.
the little things you can do are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-2.1) All about building progressive media.
@Wink I'm stunned anybody
I'm stunned anybody still thinks this is a way to work. Replacing corporate Dems with Berniecrats?
You guys must have inhabited a different time line last year. Sounds like it was a much nicer timeline than this one.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
@Wink I do get the "work
I do get the "work however you want" ethos, and, ultimately, that's the only way to go, because I'm never going to convince the people who want to work within the party that it's a bad idea. If the evidence of last year wasn't enough, nothing ever will be.
However, since you might as well say "I'm going to walk into a Mafia-run casino and win against the house at blackjack until I have more money than they do and I run the place," it's pretty hard to simply shut up and accept the fact that some people will continue to pursue this course. Still, it's what has to be done. I think maybe I've got one more essay in me on this subject before I stop having this particular debate (I figure 29 years is enough for a debate on tactics that keeps circling the same point like a planet around a dead star).
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
Because despair is not an option?
It is nice work if you can get it, pushing boulders uphill for a living, never quite making it to the top. Some people are just wired with unbelievable energy, ultimately producing nothing much but a great career of oratory, narrating every step forward, every two steps back. Keep playing within the oligarch's rule set, why not?
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/mar/10/bernie-sanders-interview-trump-democratic-party-resistance
Yes we can! Blah blah blah etc.. Do not look at the mad bombers behind every curtain, because unity, or something like that.
Peace & Love
@eyo
If you were really great and powerful, you'd keep your promises.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
You're smart enough
to know that politics does not follow a straight line. Never has, never will. Bernie ain't any different than any other politician. He works with what he has to work with. Thing is, I really don't think he knows how many avg. joe voters have his back. [sigh] Against all those odds he really Could create magic.
the little things you can do are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-2.1) All about building progressive media.
@Wink I'm smart enough to
I'm smart enough to know it ain't about what Bernie wants.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
From a link found at C99 tonight
somoeone posted today or yesterday or so:
Link: http://thesaker.is/a-multi-level-analysis-of-the-us-cruise-missile-attac...
I've always been surprised tht nybody would
sign any kind of treaty or agreement with the US. The US will abide by them only so long as the cost-benefit equation favors doing so.
That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --
treaty
Evidence?
Ask any Native American!
"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar
"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides
@enhydra lutris
Fixed that for you!
Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.
A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.
@Creosote.
Russians are perceptive and reality-based. The US PTB evidently hate them both for having their freedom of the disposal of their own fossil fuels and for their freedom to think critically.
Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.
A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.
But, Bernie is right.
He may not have the energy he had last year, cranking out two, sometimes three stump speeches every day. But, he knows that to do nothing is not an option. The only option is to do something. The Left continues to argue how to do something, instead of doing it, but something soon needs to happen, and "nothing" ain't it.
the little things you can do are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-2.1) All about building progressive media.
Think of Bernie as a Japanese lantern
you, know the type, wherein the light source is contained inside a flimsy but light-transmitting covering. Those attracted by his ideas, like moths to a flame, will not need to get themselves immolated by inside closer to the fire. Those people can use the light generated as a stimulus to gather, coalesce into something strong and than affect outcome.
@Alligator Ed Very nice point of
Very nice point of view, and really well expressed.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
It is wrong to f*ck the poors
Ohm ... resistance is futile. lol oops wrong conversation. I friendly disagree that "Bernie is right" but go on. I understand what you mean, I think. Do you know what it is like to feel hungry all day for a few days every month? Do you sleep well and warm every day? I remember that nice bubble from when I was younger and healthier, it is pretty pretty good. Electoral politics seemed to matter, because "not an option". Keep going.
What's your BMI? Never mind. I gave up looking when I hit 120 pounds looking like a friggin' speed freak in my baggy clothes. Because housing is too expensive, healthcare is too expensive, food is too expensive, transportation is too expensive, clothing budget disappeared ten years ago. Did you know people are dying in the streets in CA and NY without shelter? Our "warming stations" closed because spring arrived on the calendar, tough shit nights are still near freezing. Wine-grape crop will survive great now growers can waste water again to keep the buds "warm". Democrat priorities, plutocrats do fine funded by the oligarchs in charge. Bernie's "compassion" energy is somewhere else now, it is no coincidence California is AutomatedTellerMachine for the D party. Go on and celebrate the NY 47% free college crumbs too, don't expect me to cheer that on it is far from relieving the despair, more like ignoring it while pushing boulders uphill.
In my view, all energy and especially all dollars should flow directly to people in need, the ones paying for current D and R policies with their health, their lives. No more BIG "programs" no more BIG "501c3s", they are part of the problem with lobbyists and political "consultants". And I am not talking about SNAP for farmers market subsidies either, I mean un-subsidized, un-cronied, direct action fresh food for people, all people. Food first, artisans second. Build millions of homes, real structures not corrupt coupons or impossible waiting lists, organize co-operative worker groups to rebuild infra, not the Big boss unions. Self-insure, or whatever is possible away from the "financial services" industry investment bubbles. FTS. Stop splitting money between all those political "coalitions", and actually do something real for a change. Really take it to the streets. Rebuild a meaningful commons $27 at at time, thereby have somewhere concrete to work from, to oppose oligarchy. Thanks.
Peace & Love
@eyo Now you're talking.
Now you're talking.
At the risk of sounding incredibly privileged, though, I think we need to invest some of the money in a solid (uncorrupted) communications network too. There's a reason they took over the media. They want to control how we think and talk, keep us isolated or brainwashed.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
@eyo
That was a call to the people. Bernie has always said that change must come in a groundswell of the public themselves forming and making their government finally of, by and for the people - and that it was not about 'the right leader' as one person could not make the changes alone. The whole mess and all branches are almost solid with corruption and few in politics even dare to mention this, never mind work out a way to keep the concept of government as public servants working for the people uppermost in the minds of those restricted to the corporate media propaganda mill.
Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.
A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.
Actually, Brand New Congress says they will support anybody
who agrees with their platform. I'll bet you 50 bucks most of them will be Democrats, though.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
I'd like to know, though --
if any Green candidates (like the folks who disappeared from my neighborhood ages ago) appeal to Brand New Congress for support...
“When there's no fight over programme, the election becomes a casting exercise. Trump's win is the unstoppable consequence of this situation.” - Jean-Luc Melanchon
There's a Greenie here
in my NY-21 that is to the Left of me (not hard to do at -2.0 / -2.0) whom I've told I would vote for in a heartbeat if he would run as a Dem. "Nope, screw your Dems, I'm here to build the Green party!" And he has! to 10% of the vote! Which is about all he'll ever get, but it's 10% he's taking from the Dem party. Truly pisses me off.
the little things you can do are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-2.1) All about building progressive media.
Been a Green since '92
And every time I read one of your posts I feel vindicated in my choice to be a Green.
“When there's no fight over programme, the election becomes a casting exercise. Trump's win is the unstoppable consequence of this situation.” - Jean-Luc Melanchon
@Cassiodorus
And in 25 years your party has accomplished...
Exactly.
I would vote for this guy, and he's Way to the Left of me, but all that does is help a Repub get elected. I left my local yokel Dem party here becuz TPTB are more interested in cocktail parties and "playing nice" with Repubs than they are in actually getting Dems elected. So that leaves me, as the so-called "lone librul" in these parts, flailing in the wind. Jill's vote total told us pretty much where the Green party stands, and I don't expect that to ever change. I mean, how many times you gonna run just to pick up 2% ? Some unknown picked up twice that.
Love your posts, but the Greens are dead.
the little things you can do are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-2.1) All about building progressive media.
My party --
has accomplished a damned lot as regards fighting the ballot status restrictions imposed by the Democratic Party, at the same time fighting "demogreens" within the party who want the Green Party to join the Democratic Party, while the Democratic Party has regressed to the point where it has become Her Party.
It's called "party building." We keep running campaigns, fighting media and money machines (and a fair portion of our own party) biased in favor of the Democratic Party, until we win one. The Democratic Party does party building, but it builds neoliberal parties. That was the point of this essay (see above). If y'all don't want to get a Repub elected, try organizing a meeting between the factions opposing the Repub. And good luck -- my guess is that the Democrats, being the faux opposition, are simply uninterested in Green votes. Why should they want principled voters when they can get plenty of people who can rationalize voting for them?
This shows how the "why don't the Greens run downticket races?" ploy is such an argument of convenience. When it actually comes time to look at local Green candidates, y'all suddenly switch tactics, and point to Jill. Here's a nice fact about Jill: Jill hired a noted Demogreen (David Cobb) to run her campaign. The Greens have been running fake candidates for President since the 2004 national convention screwed Ralph Nader out of the ballot status the rank-and-file was all too ready to grant him.
If the Green Party is not to your liking (and I've made this clear in post after post), feel free to start another party. I'll probably join it. Until then, we'll be going over how Bernie Sanders is in fact a company man and that sort of thing.
“When there's no fight over programme, the election becomes a casting exercise. Trump's win is the unstoppable consequence of this situation.” - Jean-Luc Melanchon
@Wink I'd rather
I'd rather accomplish nothing than accomplish what the Democrats have accomplished in the last twenty-five years. Financial deregulation. NAFTA. No Child Left Behind. The Clinton Crime Bill. Globalized fracking. The Iraq War. The Syrian War. The war in Afghanistan. The Patriot Act. The destruction of Libya. Haiti. Honduras. Patriot Act II.
Which of these could have been accomplished without bipartisan support? I guess we'll never know.
Oh yeah. I forgot. Changing the official way we reckon unemployment and poverty, so it looks like things are better than they are. Cutting the social safety net. Calling it a victory when we cut 13 billion dollars from SNAP during the worst economic disaster since the Great Depression. Protecting the destroyers who stole people's homes.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
I've had the same thoughts, and also wondered
where non-aligned candidates are expected to come from.
That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --
I've had the same thoughts, and also wondered
where non-aligned candidates are expected to come from.
That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --
Someone (don't remember who) told me recently
that impeaching Trump was a good idea because it hasn't been proved yet that Mike Pence's Dominionism would really be a problem.
https://www.tenor.co/view/facepalm-shaq-gif-5020960
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
Fits right in, right?
n/t
Let me try this:
I hope this works:
<div class="tenor-gif-embed" data-postid="5020960" data-share-method="host" data-width="100%" data-aspect-ratio="1.768"><a href="https://www.tenor.co/view/facepalm-shaq-gif-5020960">Facepalm GIF</a> from <a href="https://www.tenor.co/search/facepalm-gifs">Facepalm GIFs</a></div><script type="text/javascript" async src="https://www.tenor.co/embed.js"></script>
Produces This:
Maybe this would be better:
<div class="tenor-gif-embed" data-postid="5020960" data-share-method="host" data-width="50%" data-aspect-ratio="1.768"><a href="https://www.tenor.co/view/facepalm-shaq-gif-5020960">Facepalm GIF</a> from <a href="https://www.tenor.co/search/facepalm-gifs">Facepalm GIFs</a></div><script type="text/javascript" async src="https://www.tenor.co/embed.js"></script>
Produces This:
And one more time with gusto ...
This works as well, except the animated gif will not display in "Preview" mode and the escape tags will not display if the user's browser is unable to load the animated gif.
<div class="tenor-gif-embed" data-postid="5020960" data-share-method="host" data-width="100%" data-aspect-ratio="1.768"><script type="text/javascript" async src="https://www.tenor.co/embed.js"></script><div class="tenor-gif-embed" data-postid="5020960" data-share-method="host" data-width="100%" data-aspect-ratio="1.768"> </div><script type="text/javascript" async src="https://www.tenor.co/embed.js"></script>
Produces This:
I missed the closing tag </div>, bad kitty!, bad script kitty!
@PriceRip Thank you!
Thank you!
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
Anyway, how the fuck could anyone be surprised
that they are undermining "Bernie-Sanders-style candidates" when they just finished undermining Bernie Sanders?
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
And
for all of his blustering about how the Dems need to change, Bernie still won't admit that the primary was stolen not just from him, but from us*. Until we can have a realistic and adult convesation about what happened there, anything else is just empty words.
* One of my biggest issues with Sanders in his current incarnation is his aloofness towards the rigged primary. He may be ok with it, but the whole crux of his campaign was that it wasn't about just him. It was about all of us. That primary was a slap in the face to every one of his supporters. For him to just blow it off like the rest of the Dems want to is kind of insulting, IMHO.
Idolizing a politician is like believing the stripper really likes you.
@Dr. John Carpenter No kidding. Sane
No kidding. Sane Progressive pointed that out weeks ago (maybe months?) and she's right.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
Yes, that's it exactly
I hadn't given this a lot of thought until now, because I'm not and never was "in love" with Bernie himself, such that I can feel betrayed by him over his turning to the
dark sidedemocrats. I knew he was a career politician who had been working with the Democratic Party for a very long time. He said he would support the party's nominee in the end, and I believed him and expected it. I also hadn't really known much about him until he ran for president, so I read a lot about his past and career once I decided to send him money. I almost never do that for politicians, and I'm very careful and skeptical. I knew Bernie was no angel. So I've been sort of distanced from the anger at him personally. My ire has been directed at the Democratic Party, who ruthlessly squashed the movement, the huge wave, that Bernie conjured up.I'm not mad that they screwed him. Bernie can and is taking care of himself.
I'm mad that the "party" -- aka the Clintons and their minions, not just that they cheated and bought the nomination, but they destroyed the possibilities that Bernie's campaign had demonstrated exist in this country. They will squeeze it to death. That's why I can't bring myself to vote for democrats now, or republicans. Maybe it's not fair to "good democrats" or "Bernie democrats" -- those that want to take over and fix the party. But I feel like they are joining the Borg. They will be assimilated. Or they will lose. The party won't help them, it will actively undermine them if necessary. The only way to win is not to play.
I doubt there is anything that can be said by the party to change my feelings. I would need to see changes. New leadership and no more Clinton ownership, for starters. A sincere recognition and apology for what they did in the primary. Not to Bernie, but to his voters and supporters, his movement. Adopt the platform he ran on, that we supported. No more superdelegates choosing the party's candidates. Single payer/universal healthcare as a key policy goal, and a real push for it.
Let's start with those, and then I'll think about supporting some of these "new and better democrats" and voting again. (I feel confident my bluff will not be called.)
Bernie can't convince people like me to forgive and forget the party for their corrupt behavior. That's what they don't seem to understand, with this idea that Bernie is supposed to be sheepdogging us back into the fold. It won't work. If those fundraising numbers for Our Revolution are correct, it shows just how much we won't be herded back to the dem party at this point. I saw kos was recently scratching his head in confusion over why 'Berniecrats" and the OR organization raised so little cash for this skirmish. Why don't they come flocking back to the Borg? ... gee, I just can't figure it out. They don't get it, apparently. That party isn't going to be reformed. I can't support any effort that revitalizes them. We need a new way.
Very well put.
n/t
Idolizing a politician is like believing the stripper really likes you.
This is still correct:
Start at 5:40:
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
Yup, great point about the non-support
for those who supported him, especially those who gave him money when they could hardly afford to do so. It wasn't Bernie who had it stolen from him but US, as he kept on saying. And that is why I can't support his new "movement" and certainly will not give it money.
Only a fool lets someone else tell him who his enemy is. Assata Shakur
I didn't think of it so much as an insult
Rather, I thought of the rigged primary as just another data point supporting the notion that the Democratic party was far, far gone. The supporting wikileaks information was some minor confirmation of that. Their response to those wikileaks was the nail in the coffin.
A lot of wanderers in the U.S. political desert recognize that all the duopoly has to offer is a choice of mirages. Come, let us trudge towards empty expanse of sand #1, littered with the bleached bones of Deaniacs and Hope and Changers.
-- lotlizard
but, but, but, how
exactly does one go about that without committing political suicide?
"I was totally hosed by the DNC and the Dem party during the primary. They rigged the whole thing against me!"
One, he has zero proof of that, other than what's been intimated by DWS and others. Two, where does one go after stating that? The DNC and Dem party will just gang up on him again, denying everything, telling him to "prove it." So... where's the win?
It's easy to say, "Bernie should... " Not as easy to do.
the little things you can do are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-2.1) All about building progressive media.
Remember the leak from DNC
that's proof enough the primary was rigged even before a challenger appeared to Her Nastiness.
I never delved into
the "leaks" becuz it sounded so much like he said, she said. Is there anything in those "leaks" that says, "we're going to fuck any would-be candidate that dares take on Her Highness?" If there is I've never seen it surface, the MSM never covered it. Not that I expected them to, but all of this talk of "leaks" amounted to speculation. But, then, I never followed it so maybe I missed something. I just followed Bernie on this, and he never pushed it, so I suspected it was so much about nothing. As usual when it comes to these things. Lots of talk, no evidence. I suspected Bernie took his campaign all the way to Philly, all the way to the Convention in hopes more of this "leak" would be exposed and Her Highness and the DNC forced then to crown Bernie.
the little things you can do are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-2.1) All about building progressive media.
"so maybe I missed something" Ya think?
c'mon did you really just admit you never read the evidence? And you "just listened to Bernie" about it? Thanks, that does 'splain the constant contrary. "But did you get info from Chelsea about the wall lamps?" was one eye-opening conversation. Execs at the highest level of government, can't even compose a proper email thread, and omg the garbage that Microsoft Outlook spews and obfuscates at the same time. What a piece of garbage software, probably mandated because monopoly. No wonder there are leaks all over the world, in addition to Seth's drop. Thanks, if it was really him, he is changing the world for better.
The comment you just dropped about the Green Party being dead sounds bitter, sorry you feel burned or unsupported in NY. {hug} Whatever the distress, I am pretty pretty sure NY Ds are not going to do much except what the evil status quo allows, perpetually not enough. Just like CA, tons of money goes where now? Oh yeah, and The Clinton Global Foundation is where now?
Bernie is shilling for corporate Democrats, on tour to GOTV and prop up another dead party walking, under cover of the word revolution. That's a shame, I think. He is working like there is a democracy, not an oligarchy, and that is dishonest. Get the money out, then voters can respond. He must know it. Regular people can't compete with lobbyists and consultants, they're eaten alive once assimilated in to the party structure, consumed by pervasive greed. Only plastic people get promoted. That's my observation, nothing has changed. Keep pushing that boulder if it makes you happy, but don't expect positive change.
Peace & Love
Edited to add: this video speaks for itself, carnival bark much? "We'll be there fighting" riiight (also he may sell you the Brooklyn Bridge but go on), like the last eight years? uh-huh. Let them go Bernie, please don't associate with bullshit like this:
"This video is unlisted. Be considerate and think twice before sharing."
Think twice! LOL double-speak ;-D. Consider both middle fingers pointing toward the sky, that's enough for now.
Absolutely right about DNC and Dem perfidy
Dishonest Debbie and dastardly Donna were outed in their full, unvarnished characters: lying, conniving witches. Makes one yearn for a new Salem Witch Trial.
No, I'm not for witch hunts
that sounds kinda misogynist, and I happen to love women and Wicca so ixnay on the urningbay. But those two really bug me, their open dishonesty it is like a disease. I say purge, but even that is too harsh. Can't we get them to retire to private life? No, because they make their bread grafting off innocent voters, soaking them for every penny possible. It is bad politics and why I think Ds are dead party walking. D-diddly-done! /nedflanders
Duopoly inertia is going to drag longer than I will live, probably. Unless someone with guts, willing to sacrifice, stands up and leads the way forward. That's what I think.
Peace & Love
You definitely are a kindly soul, eyo
I retract my misogynistic statement (but not the thought). Let us chastened beings hope that the Devil finds more tolerance for the three Harpies (oops, misogyny again! Well, what can ya do?)
The Green party is
toast. Need any evidence see Jill's 2016 election effort. 2%. Hell, an unknown running as an "independent" got 4%. The Greens are dead. And, when I hear talk here of "building a new party," I just think of the 25 year effort of the Greens to garner 2%. No thanks. As for the Dems here in NY, you're right. But, that can be said for the other 49. Show me a strong Dem party anywhere and they would be the first. I left my local yokel Dem party four years ago when it (finally) became painfully obvious that they cared not about electing Dem candidates. Sound familiar? Sound like our DNC? It wasn't until after the 2014 elections that I gave up on Obama. As for Bernie, he did not march to Philly to crown Her Highness, nor endorse her. He obliged his campaign promise to -ahem- "support the winner," but once out on HRC's campaign trail simply rattled off his stump speech. "Hillary supports a $15 minimum wage... " [cough] [wink] Her bristled every time Bernie opened his mouth. So... you have no faith in Bernie fine. Who you gonna put your faith in? The "Movement?" Bueller? Anyone? The Ubers and Filthys don't fear us, the Repubs don't fear us, and The Donald don't fear us. Know who they fear?
Bernie.
the little things you can do are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-2.1) All about building progressive media.
Everyone's going to vote Democrat FOREVER AND EVER
See, because --
Of course, such statements assume a homogeneous history, it's all one straight shot to 2%, never mind Ralph Nader or the betrayal in Milwaukee or for that matter any of the actual events occurring between 1990 and the present-day which might have moved things one way or another.
And I suppose if you don't like the Democrats you can always vote Whig. They're still the other party, of course, because the Two-Party System is eternal as everyone knows.
Moreover, the current course of policy, where the two parties take turns trying to get rid of Social Security and stuff like that, will never cause anyone to rise up in revolt. It's the current parties forever, baby. One of them appoints the oil industry to deal with climate change and the other promotes climate change denial, but nothing could ever go wrong. Right?
About ten months ago I put out this diary, followed by this diary. It's not like we don't understand the scope or requirements of the new-party project.
“When there's no fight over programme, the election becomes a casting exercise. Trump's win is the unstoppable consequence of this situation.” - Jean-Luc Melanchon
Ahh, yes, Traitor Nader.
The Greens stealing yet another one from Team Blue. One would think they're the sister party of the Repubs. And, I know, I know, Ralphie didn't steal anything from anyone. Had the Dems had a real candidate, blah blah blah, they would have won. Funny, we had the same argument this year. (and both are valid).
And, I don't like to rag on Raalph, truly, becuz his ideas are more progressive than your average Dem. He's certainly not Dem Lite. But... if you Know you're only going to pick up 2%, 3%, 4% of the vote (and you Do know that) - and a Large part of that 3% will take votes away from the Dems... well... why not limit your activity to supporting down ballot candidates - and give Dems a chance to win - 'cuz lord knows they could use it! I don't know that running a candidate for prez helps build your party any. Sure, it gives it some much needed PR, but... it also helps the Repubs.
The Dem party is mostly center-left, but there's a significant if not growing center-right. The only way to cure that is to continue moving the party Left, hoping to attract more progs to the fold. And while the party "Leadership" continues to push the party hard right, that pretty much leaves it up to the rank & file to push back. Or spend 10, 15, 25 years building a new Lefty party. I'd rather spend the time rebuilding the Dem party, but your mileage may vary. One thing is certain. The Status Quo cannot stand.
the little things you can do are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-2.1) All about building progressive media.
I keep posting these diaries or whatever
and people keep ignoring them.
That's why I posted the "we need an 1856 moment diary." The Republicans of old did not worry about spending "10, 15, 25 years" building any party. They started a party in 1854 and by 1861 they occupied the White House.
Look, I already made this argument several times over. This is the last time I waste it on you.
“When there's no fight over programme, the election becomes a casting exercise. Trump's win is the unstoppable consequence of this situation.” - Jean-Luc Melanchon
If only. n/t
the little things you can do are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-2.1) All about building progressive media.
@Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal
It's the concept of democracy they want to kill. They hate American non-billionaire Poors for the freedoms they've mostly taken away by now, because they know it's all unconstitutional and that they can't really. They've only been getting away with all of this because the people have overall just accepted their crimes as 'done deals', 'to be fixed next time', again and again.
Edited to capitalize a letter and to add a letter. Lucky I'm not writing a letter...
Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.
A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.
The Kochs and clintons still own the D party
until that changes if ever, we have a one party bought and paid for
government
[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ybj4mTeaB84&feature=youtu.be]
I never knew that the term "Never Again" only pertained to
those born Jewish
"Antisemite used to be someone who didn't like Jews
now it's someone who Jews don't like"
Heard from Margaret Kimberley
"Tom Perez, a genius loser." LOL!
Thanks for that lovely quote from Jimmy Dore. Laughing at the truthiness of comedians is still a thing. Thanks goodness.
Peace & Love
Thank Jimmy
I'm just the messenger, thanks.
I never knew that the term "Never Again" only pertained to
those born Jewish
"Antisemite used to be someone who didn't like Jews
now it's someone who Jews don't like"
Heard from Margaret Kimberley
@ggersh "All of it done
"All of it done independently of the Democratic party" LOL
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
@ggersh
the little things you can do are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-2.1) All about building progressive media.
The dynamic duo
one the scarecrow, with no brain, the other the lion with no courage
and together in wanting to be the tin man with no heart, yep the dynamic duo.
I never knew that the term "Never Again" only pertained to
those born Jewish
"Antisemite used to be someone who didn't like Jews
now it's someone who Jews don't like"
Heard from Margaret Kimberley
On the other hand...
I realize this will not be a popular response here, but I'm busting my ass to get more folks in my community to vote. There are plenty of problems with Dems where I am, but we are a Dem-majority place in the middle of a vast redness. Bernie won this area pretty much any way it's sliced for results, but the power has been entrenched with the establishment/corporatist arm of the party. But the local tax office here, which runs voter registration efforts, has been working night and day to increase voter accessibility. Our city of a fair size (over a million and growing by over 100 per day) has reached 90+ percent voter registration. I've registered a couple hundred or so of them, myself.
I went and heard the first forum last night of the (so far) six potential candidates to run against the Republican who represents my congressional district, and they were all good people with values very close to my own. I've gotten to know one of them this week (we've been to at least three events together), and he's the real deal. I also know and admire (and HAVE KNOWN) most of my Dem representatives at the local level for going on a decade, and I admire and trust them and even know some of their children and pets. Before the increased Gerrymandering in Texas after the 2010 census, I even knew my Congressman a bit, and he may have even known my name at that time - I probably was at small events (public events, not of the fundraising kind) once per quarter. In 2008, he was targeted by bussed-in Tea Partiers at his informal town halls. I was at an event of which the video went viral and I must have been standing immediately to one side of the person who made the video.
Everyone should work for what they feel called to work for, but being a Dem does not make everyone evil. There is a fatal (and contagious) sickness in those who are main-lining cash, but it hasn't infected everyone, and those folks will die off, frankly. The people are taking the party back. Not all of them were/are Bernie supporters, but in the end, those who aren't have more in common with the Bernie folks than not, and I believe there will be a coming together the majority will feel good about. It's not going to be easy.
The Our Revolution folks are doing important outreach. The Indivisible folks are doing important outreach. There are many active groups emerging & thriving - there must be!
Personally, I'd like to see the Progressive Democrats of America continue to come together and help focus the voice of the left's left.
Dems in general are not the problem. It's the establishment Dems who believe in donor money over people and planet. I believe they will be pushed aside...
We're doing it at the County executive committee level, and I'm constantly reading about how that's happening across the country. The Bernie supporters have infiltrated the party and are taking it back for the people, re-writing the party rules to stop having them be slanted in favor of big money. It doesn't happen over night. It happens by staying focused on the issues and talking about them ad naseum - just like Bernie has done for 30 years and more.
Just my two cents.
'What we are left with is an agency mandated to ensure transparency and disclosure that is actually working to keep the public in the dark' - Ann M. Ravel, former FEC member
Isn't "Our Revolution" astroturf?
Run by "We're with Her"?
I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.
@MsGrin Then that Jimmy Dore
Then that Jimmy Dore video about the DNC's behavior in KS is very pertinent to your concerns, and it looks to my eye like Bernie is running into the same problem Howard Dean did: getting the actual funds and actual surrogate support to the progressive candidates, instead of having it either redirected to corporate candidates (which is what happened under Dean--not his fault, he lost a battle with Rahm Emanuel, basically) or, in this case, simply cut off in a kind of DNC blackout (something I've experienced myself in North Florida; don't try to get the DNC to run anybody in District 6, which they've basically ceded to the Republicans, and if you run a candidate without their blessing, they'll act like you don't exist: no funding, no mention of your name. Corinne Brown's response was something like "What has Dave Bruderly ever done for me?" instead of being "It would be great to take District 6 back from that shithead, Republican Cliff Stearns." And Corinne is a member of the CBC, not the Blue Dogs, so she's hardly the worst.)
A lot of people (not you, but a lot of other people with whom I've had this argument) tend to assume that those of us who oppose the strategy you've chosen have never done the pragmatic thing or played the inside game, that we know little or nothing of campaign politics, etc., but basically draw all our ideas from sitting in coffeeshops reading Marx and Murray Bookchin (would that it were so).
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
The DNC/DNCC
whatever, claims to be "Democrat's" is a party owned by the donors
of which the Koch's are part of, it's why they said they wouldn't mind
hillary over trump.
Therefore they'll only fund their lapdogs, hired hands on the ranch, all
blue dogs who only do their tricks(sorry to all dogs) no way they'll fund
independent thinkers, new deal Dem's, real Democrat's. Being left of center
even in the center is considered evil to the DNC fucks.
I never knew that the term "Never Again" only pertained to
those born Jewish
"Antisemite used to be someone who didn't like Jews
now it's someone who Jews don't like"
Heard from Margaret Kimberley
Winner winner, chicken dinner.
Too bad I can't eat Bernie's words, and too bad I can't afford chicken in California anymore too, somebody call the waahmbulance. Oh wait, there is none because CA is so damned great already. Subsidies galore for some, all others eat cake. "That's the system." AND "We're capitalists." who "try to mitigate" ever-increasing poverty and homelessness.
Bernie congratulating Brown for signing the weak-tea $15 wage bill was kick-my-guts dishonest, unless he follows up with the truth how that bill came to be on Brown's desk, and not the real Fight for $15 bill. Just like praising bullshit incrementally "free college" in NY. Nothing personal but fuck that lesser evil shit, stop codifying evil. Just stop the madness.
That's the point exactly, in my view. Words don't mean shit unless you're the one holding all the (Clintonite) billionaire's keys. Real resistors don't comply with corrupt systems. There will never be enough votes to overthrow an oligarchy, only depriving them money will work, that's what I think.
Peace & Love
resistERs
You gave me a laugh this morning:
ROTFLMAO!!
Umm, I believe the word you want is resistERs!
As a 40+ year electronics tech, I can tell you that real resistORs do comply with corrupt systems. I've smelled enough of their death-throes in my time to know that painfully well!!
resistERs -- people
resistORs -- components providing electrical loads
"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar
"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides
Bzzt! Ha ha get out the soldering kit.
If spellcheck doesn't prove robots suck more thn not, well I don't know.
Magic smoke. Don't let the smoke out. lol today is a good day for laughter it seems, thanks for the funny.
Peace & Love
@thanatokephaloides ROTFLMAO--I didn't
ROTFLMAO--I didn't even catch that one. Awesome.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
NY's "free college" program
starts in the Fall with students living in households of $100 Large or less. Sounds pretty real to me. There are many of us in the 47% that will take advantage of that. And, a $15 bill is a $15 bill. That "qualifiers" are attached... so what? Like here in NY, CA going to get their $15. These little crumbs may be handed out by corporate Dems, but we'll take the crumbs.
the little things you can do are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-2.1) All about building progressive media.
Bernie...
" Bernie, w/ Perez a few yards away backstage: "Our job is to radically transform the Democratic Party into a 50-state party." " – Dave Weigel
That doesn't sound like the Bernie they talk about on here, it sounds like the Bernie that only I, apparently, seem to get. The same one he's been for the last forty years or more. But, but, but, lest you forget, Wink, he's playing ball with the DNC - the rotten core of the Democratic party. What about that? True. True. But like his -ahem- "endorsement" -cough- of Her Highness, Bernie taking the route that makes sense to Bernie. The old geezer spanking the crap out of Perez' DNC while at the same time spreading his own message. Hillary again spinning in her political grave. "what we need to do, people, is fuck all this DNC bull$h!t, and get on with Transforming the Democratic party into a 50 state party!" "Ain't that right, Tom?!" Tom? Tom? "Somebody get Tom some water... "
the little things you can do are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-2.1) All about building progressive media.
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