We're going to support only Democrats because...
because why?
Has anyone really asked this of Bernie or the Bernie people or Justice Democrats/ Our Revolution/ Brand New Congress/ Coalition to Promote Maybe You Get A Little Something For Your Tax Dollars?
Are any of those organizations planning to support any candidate anywhere (outside of Bernie, but only technically) who isn't a Democrat?
What's the counter-argument? "Yeah, you see, because after the first few hundred betrayals the folks who run the party will let up. It's in their contracts y'know." Make them actually voice that, or something like that.
In that regard I enjoyed reading this piece:
The Democratic party is undermining Bernie Sanders-style candidates
You've no doubt read the reportage on this one before. The fun thing about Jamie Peck's piece here is in how Tom Perez and the rest of those hacks are so thoroughly denied therein. It should be clear by this point that the Democrats will lose every seat in every legislature in America before letting you and yours have one of them. They think of the Bernie people as the enemy, so in that sense they're paying attention. Are the Bernie people paying attention?
Ask the Bernie people this: do you really need to see the full demonstration to be convinced?
Not enough evidence y'know. More research! Isn't that what the Bush administration said about climate change?
Comments
We are talking past each other
I don't know how to get "heard" when you repeat again:
Which I think got mentioned and replied to already, so what are we discussing? 40 years of Bernie talk talk talking has not transformed the political landscape in any significant way. He was allowed to get paid for widening the discussion, and that is what he did. Thanks.
Speaking of super-delegates, where's that rule change again? Is DNC still shoving money up some high-priced consultant's rear end? Pep rallies and focus groups make me sick anymore, but I am broke and hungry and on the verge of homelessness, so afraid. I try not to take it out on the people around me, who have no ability to respond. At the same time, I'm not gonna sit by and watch the bullshit carnival barkers continue to hurt people, that's just wrong.
Well alrighty then. n/t
the little things you can do are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-2.1) All about building progressive media.
Why Do You Think They Will Go By the Wayside,
?
I mean, they have not yet and it's been 35 years by my clock of corporate money grubbing.
I still see the corporate owned and sponsored at the top of the national Democratic Party.
By what standards are you making that assumption?
Reminds me of my stock senses,"Wow, that's a neat company filling a huge gap in modern markets. Love how they profit from reducing waste..."
And then the company goes belly up because doing the right thing harms people making cheddar from doing the wrong thing. Seems like a quite similar situation to me.
“Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat.” ~ Sun Tzu
And when the party runs away from the primary winner --
among the six candidates you saw, what then?
I'm not against the Democrats, per se, so much as I'm against this magical thinking that says:
1) The Two-Party System is eternal and written in stone
2) What matters is not a person's relation to capital or their location within the economy, but whether they have a (D) or an (R) next to their name.
"A reminder: the US has the #1 most expensive healthcare system in the world, yet we rank roughly #42 in life expectancy." -- Luigi Mangione
@MsGrin Kudos!
Kudos!
to you and your fellow constituents. As my wise old grandfather used to say, "Slow and steady wins the race." Impatience is understandable, but only useful in small doses.
BTW, what do the folks in your district think of our current Sec of State? Just curious. . . .
Best of luck!
The entire notion that Dem = Evil
Is just another facet of the problem. It's the same old partisan bullshit just from "our" side.
I think it's indisputably true that the Democratic PARTY is evil. But individuals are individuals. I'm a guy more focused on the outside attack. But I value your efforts to reform from within. Even were you and I in the same geographic area we would not exactly be working at cross purposes. I'd be trying to get Democrats to vote Green instead because corporate Democrats suck. You'd be saying something to the effect of "Sure they do. But my guy is a Berniecrat."
Both of us are decrying corporatism which, in the end, is the important message.
A lot of wanderers in the U.S. political desert recognize that all the duopoly has to offer is a choice of mirages. Come, let us trudge towards empty expanse of sand #1, littered with the bleached bones of Deaniacs and Hope and Changers.
-- lotlizard
Exactly. I don't get
the need to flush the party down the toilet either. I'm certainly no fan of "corporate Dems," but the party still is salvageable, I believe. And, if it isn't... no big loss. It's why I said here we need to work both sides of the street, side by side. Either get them in your local Dem party or get them in a "non-party." Just get them in.
the little things you can do are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-2.1) All about building progressive media.
Working on the inside is not to be condemned
My take is that working on the inside will act as some sort of anchor keep the party from drifting outright into Republicanland in all but name. That may keep enough of the Dem organizations somewhat grounded in reality. But, while I applaud your vigorous efforts, true change is not going to occur via the Dem party under any circumstance. Like Kamikaze pilots, they are willing to go down to die in their planes for the glory of the Empire.
Anybody who fights the establishment, whether from inside or outside, has my approval.
Just another slight variation on
"Where else are you going to go?"
The standard refrain of all abusive relationships.
Well, since they are playing the old song with bad variations, I'm going to do the old song with a GOOD variation.
[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7KJjVMqNIgA]
I do not pretend I know what I do not know.
Turns out
the people that stayed home knew what they were doing.
"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon
@dkmich I'm in favor of the
I'm in favor of the ones who actually voted but left the top line blank.
Blunt. Inescapable. Beautiful.
Fuck you, DC.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
yep, exactly. This non-
vote is for You, DNC. You, too, HRC. Screw y'all !!
And, if they run Her again they'll get the same result.
the little things you can do are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-2.1) All about building progressive media.
@detroitmechworks
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
Voting for Democrats is a waste.
Nothing will change until the leaders fear the voters. The base by and large behave like sheep and the leaders treat them as such.
Amen, psychodrew, amen.
Rahmbo called us "retards" and he meant it. Votes and an occasional small donation are all we are to them. (By "we" I mean my definition of the left -FDR, Clean Gene, RFK, etc.) Unless and until they respect us (zero chance) or at least fear us (possible), we will get nothing more than slogans and lip service from the DNC and most elected federal Democratic office holders.
Ironic that the party built on the backs of hard working men and women has turned its back on them. It's money that rules America 2017 and the Democrats are no exception. There was a time when I believed that the Dems were still capable of helping the middle class and underprivileged citizens of America. I haven't felt that way for quite some time. My fear is that the two party system is so ingrained into American politics that nothing short of a full blown revolution can change the paradigm.
"Just call me Hillbilly Dem(exit)."
-H/T to Wavey Davey
Rahmbo is a conservative.
Or Third Way "Democrat." Same thing.
the little things you can do are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-2.1) All about building progressive media.
That is the challenge,
exactly what needs to be conquered.
the little things you can do are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-2.1) All about building progressive media.
Both parties are awful
The Dems pretend to care about progressive causes, but function as a buffer against them.
The Repubs pretend to care about working people, but couldn't give a shit less.
Both parties need to be destroyed.
Both Parties are awful I think,
largely because of the dualism that is inherent in our strictly 2-Party system. This intrinsic dualism artificially compresses the whole of American political thinking and activity into a binary straightjacket. It enforces a yes/no, right/wrong, either/or paradigm on the body politic, one that cannot possibly correspond accurately to the will and the needs of the public. It tends to concentrate political power instead of dispersing it, by denying minority groups all access to effective participation in government, unless they are beholden to either one half of the Duopoly or the other. To me this seems a profoundly un-democratic system of political organization, particularly for a nation as large and diverse as the USA.
native
@gjohnsit
They don't seem to pretend very well about caring for progressive causes...
Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.
A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.
Well, if they can just get better democrats,
it just might work. Even though it's been tried for over 100 years and people like Eugene Debs have decried the duopoly, times are different now. The people are ready for the New Democratic Party. It's time for a change, Democrats 2018. Vote your conscience!
I think it just might work, see, because the republicans and Trump are so fucked up, the people are going to want a change and what better way to make a change than to turn to the other party. That is change you can believe in. Hey, maybe they can use that as a slogan.
The other part of the times that is different now
... is the information age. Sure, on one hand, they get to watch us as we watch TV. On the other hand, nowadays even the NSA can't keep a secret. Their shenanigans are so much harder to hide and it's equally hard for them to control the narrative.
I often-times think people severely underestimate the changes that the information age has wrought in our society. I think it's one of those things that's easier to see in hindsight like the Industrial Age.
Anyway, I have hopes that despite the establishment's best efforts, people are slowly being informed in the information age.
A lot of wanderers in the U.S. political desert recognize that all the duopoly has to offer is a choice of mirages. Come, let us trudge towards empty expanse of sand #1, littered with the bleached bones of Deaniacs and Hope and Changers.
-- lotlizard
@Big Al Nobody seems to care
Nobody seems to care that the politicians are basically using the same monopoly techniques that the industrialists are. "Where else ya gonna go?" is, ultimately, an argument for the company store.
I'm a miner, and someday I'm gonna take over the company store from Massey corp. I know it'll happen one day soon. If I just work hard enough and stay plucky.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
@Big Al
Well, Americans are stuck with the Two-Faced Corporate Party Trade-Off either because the richest country in world can't afford more than two parties, as with universal public coverage of health-care or a living minimum wage, or because the corporate interests, multi-millionaires and billionaires don't want to have to worry about buying up more than two parties.
Let's just assume it's the latter.
The whole freaking governmental mess is corrupt, branches and all, rotten to the core. The system has long been rigged, now it's institutionally rigged under Homeland Security, making the electoral infrastructure - everything - Top Secret except to HS and private interests and safe from any chance of citizen or other independent oversight.
I'm postulating that only the corporate Parties are permitted to even show more than a very few votes, as I'm pretty darned sure that Jill Stein got more than was officially declared and I rather suspect that The Mad Bomber's campaign snagged a fair percentage of hers, both to make it evident that no other Party could possibly even have enough admitted votes to enter debates and bring up verboten subjects such as facts and to fill out her rather scanty nose-holder Not-Trump votes, despite whatever cheating was engaged in, although I gather (surprise) that it appeared that cheating had occurred on both sides in the general.
Bur it appears that no non-corporate/billionaire-owned Party will ever be permitted to win any useful public office, where it's possible to cheat them of it, (seems that Homeland Security now has that widely covered,) barring such an obvious nation-wide landslide that a cheat would be impossible to conceal - although there the voters and/or votes would, no doubt, be disposed of in the manner seen in the notorious Dem nomination fake, with targeted mass-altered voter registrations, lost ballots, disposable/whited out ballots, etc..
(Thanks, publicly paid, predominately privately owned, spy-on-the-public agencies and especially Homeland Security, which'll be keeping, no doubt, electoral infrastructure details and results Top Secret apart from what's announced [presumably] after the selection rather than, Clinton-supporter-like, prior this time?)
However, if the Dem Party could be replaced by actual democratic candidates, (doubtful that they'd be allowed to win by corporate management, but let's pretend that they'd rather a peaceful revolution than a cabal-toss competition conducted by the pitchfork-wielding proletariat not yet run down by army tanks manned by yahoo militarized police or perforated by the bullets of mercenary forces, really pissing off the survivors,) could the Psychopaths That Be pretend that suddenly one-party elections were now all that America could manage? The optics wouldn't be good on that... so, back to the pitchforks.
It's a slim chance, but what are the options, aside from citizens using pointy farm implements in removing the ordure the old-fashioned way? While facing down a fully-armed-for-war army of Israeli-trained militarized police, Blackwater-offshoot mercenaries (hired killers, by whatever name, will somehow always stink the same) and the freaking kitchen sink of armed everybody The Psychopaths That Be can scrape up, etc., if not also their own army troops or those of other countries - all of which they'll be paying out of their own public funds to shoot at them for exercising their Constitutional right to change government the hard way, having been left no other option.
And when that 'they' turns out to be you and yours fighting for your lives against an occupying army with a 3-tined garden fork (because the larger pitchforks sold out or because they were too hard to manage with your walker) you might briefly wonder if it might not have been better to first try that insane idea of replacing corporate reps with progressives to take over the Dems, because there was just a slim chance it might actually have worked without bloodshed.
Because it's a bit different now than it was - the citizens know too much to be left unwatched and we're all going to be killed off anyway by these lunatics, one way or another, very, very soon - unless the people stop them now.
Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.
A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.
Even the Bernie style Democrat's
refuse to let go of the delusion that this freaking nightmare is down to the red vs blue. I guess it's easier to believe that a Demorat posing as a progressive and spouting bs about a political revolution is better then a Republican loonie. Most of the people I know in real life did support Bernie. However they caved and followed their leader. They started talking purity is bad and blaming the far left. They prefer the illusion of a two party democratic state to taking a good hard look at what America is about.
Ask me all of our elected representatives in power on every level, city. county, state or national including Bernie and his reform candidates are a complicit part of the fascistic duopoly from hell. Whether you live in Kansas or Oregon even if you manage to scare the crap out of people about the evil other side and get a so called progressive elected it won't do a damn thing. Even when your state's population is solid blue and relatively liberal once you toe the party line and vote for a Demorat your not going to see any difference other then the hypocritical lip service to 'socially liberal' so called values. The Democrat's progressive or centrist will fuck you over once elected.
Money. Why would anyone donate to their own demise? Why would anyone give their consent to governed by the assorted Makers of the MOAB's, Nestle, Nike, Monstanto, Big Oil, the for profit Healthcare Industries or Goldman Sachs and Company? The too big's own both parties. Why send any of these corrupt pols money or support them? Look at what they are doing now that they are the loyal opposition. I see no Demorat obstruction other then symbolic grandstanding and an occasional useless so called progressive legislative bone or amendment thrown coming from any Demorat's anywhere.
Cart before the horse politics and the cart is a load o' rats. Red or blue who cares? Do all Democratic voters even the progressives have convenient amnesia? How do they call this resistance to this horror show by continuing to believe that somehow the complicit Demorat's are better then or a lesser evil? Who cares about insider politics when the inside is rotten to the core regardless of whether they are D's or R's or tea baggers or 'progressives'.
This nightmare will remain inevitable until people really do resist. Hard to bite the global corporate hand that feeds you even if the food is poisonous, toxic and falsely labeled natural or organic. No real organic's allowed cause that's being a purist and it's against our global, national,state and local interest's. God knows we can't have the visible hand of the market suffer any profit loss. Let's do the money.
@shaharazade Look at what the party
Look at what the party did to Grayson.
Rahm Emanuel's description of progressives is "fucking retards", if memory serves me.
How does a person believe that they should join a group specifically to reform it? Would anyone join the KKK to change them into BLM? No. You would not join and when membership dwindles, the group dwindles.
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981
Someone (don't remember who)
needs to be institutionalized before he can harm himself. (or us!)
On to Biden since 1973
I still have faith in Bernie
and will until a few days after the Ds sabotage the 2018 elections. When the Ds lose another 10 senate and 50 house seats that is the time to announce that the Ds are officially done. Then progressives and good government independents (and even good government - and therefore disaffected - conservatives) will form a wave.
Of course, Trump could really, REALLY fuck up, so badly that even up front traitor Democrats could win. Then we're doomed.
On to Biden since 1973
I totally have faith
in the Bernster. I just wish he had as much as we do. I don't think he realizes he can change the dynamic in, like, a month. All he needs to do is do what he did last year, B.C. Before the Convention. He does One-a-Days at College Campii all across the fruited plain and it's May, 2016 all over again.
the little things you can do are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-2.1) All about building progressive media.
He would have to go fully Independent
I believe. As cynical as I am about Democrats, obviously many others are too. At least for me, that's about the only way he could get his credibility back. And I think that may be the only way for enough of the electorate too. And it surely would be the only real way to maybe get both sides out of that duopoly mindset. A longshot, of course, but if he really wanted to get done what he says, it's the only way. They must fear us again in numbers, and siding with the slimy Democratic party isn't going to generate any real groundswell of support. Just my two cents.
Only a fool lets someone else tell him who his enemy is. Assata Shakur
Perhaps I'll risk saying
that he'd have to literally put his life on the line to go fully Independent or stop censoring his views.
This is a sound prediction for 2018
However we are probably not going to survive until 2020 because the Nuke-o-crats will have exercised their fiendishly suicidal wishes.
@Alligator Ed Well, and then there's
Well, and then there's DHS running our elections. I imagine that whatever result the Clinton/Bush/MIC establishment wants, they'll get.
What's needed is for everyone to realize that the elections, like the news, are simply a pack of lies.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
@doh1304
Looks like it's possibly still Her Turn Next (or some other scam perhaps simply using Her name?) according to a little something arriving in my inbox yesterday - backed by (Top Secret from the public but not private interests) Homeland Security electotal control over all electoral infrastructure, which includes everything, from voter databases to all polling locations.
http://deletionpedia.org/en/National_Democratic_Training_Committee
http://deletionpedia.org/en/THC_(production_team)
List of (out-of order?) hip-hop productions follow, the bottom two appropriately listed as being:
And the 2nd checked:
http://deletionpedia.org/en/Slate_Star_Codex
Please note familiar names from the original listing (which I failed to check on the intervening and likewise deleted link to 'THC (production team)' from the deleted 'Is Hillary the Rightful President' poll - no wonder this was only a 24-hour poll? Click-virus, perhaps?) such as 'THC (production team' and 'Southern Halo (band', which I happened to recognize.
Perhaps it's fortunate that I never have any money to steal and never do internet financial transactions, should this be some sort of keylogger install... but a very stupid Hillary attempt at stealing an election/tracking yes/no voters for future voter registration issues would hardly be surprising either...
Can anybody guess whether this smells more like David Brock or like a Nigerian Prince thing (only with keyloggers/other infections of some variety) I'll be sorry to have clicked on?
Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.
A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.
"Who you gonna put your faith in?"
I don't put my faith in any politician. When it comes time to vote again, it will probably be Peace and Freedom, if not Green. But I'm not going to be "loyal" to any one political party, especially not the bomb-dropping Ds and Rs. Fuck them and the warheads they ride around on, and I am never giving another red cent to any politician as long as I live, that's a no-brainer in my book now. Go on and make fun of my brain lack, it's okay with me. I yam what I yam.
Peace & Love
Prise de la Bastille
I wonder if our 14 July 1789 will ever come.
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