This is some weak sauce - RUSSIA!!!!!!! [rant]

Reds under the beds

Donald Trump’s willingness to embrace Russian disinformation was one of the reasons Russia’s interference in the 2016 election worked, the Senate panel investigating the president’s alleged ties to the country heard on Thursday.

Decades of Russian covert attempts to undermine confidence in western institutions, including planting or promoting false news stories or spreading doubt about the integrity of elections, will accelerate in the future unless the US confronts so-called “active measures”, several experts testified to the Senate intelligence committee.

~ snip

Wittingly or not, Trump and his former campaign chairman, Paul Manafort, embraced and promoted narratives, including false ones, convenient to Russian interests, including a fake story about a terrorist attack on the Turkish airbase at Incirlik used by US forces and baselessly doubting the US citizenships of Barack Obama and Ted Cruz.

So it wasn't our own special brand of wingnuts making shit up, it was a global commie plot!

Dear god Americans have been served conspiracy theories with their morning cereal since at least WWI. From McCarty through JFK, moon landings to the Birthers and beyond. Conspiracy Theories are as American as apple pie.

We have to believe in the constant menace to our "freedoms", whereas anyone who defies our greatest nation status gets actually bombed and given a government we deem appropriate.

Of course they mess with us in return, however we are trained through lack of education, a perverted press and successive governments selling neo-liberal and neocon bullshit for decades. We have been lied to for decades by not only the bloody loons but the so called "serious people as well" backed up by a bought up and sold up MSM and congress. Is it any bloody wonder people start to believe in any old tripe they are served?

Now our spooks are selling us some more in house bullshit, these same people have set up black sites, torture partners, overturned elected governments and helped install dictatorial monsters on a truly global scale.

Is it any wonder we end up confused and vulnerable to bullshit? We have been spoon fed it since birth. Oh and I am not just talking about one side of the fictive aisle. At least this shit has less potency this side of the damn pond.

How many fell for Gee Dumbya Bush's and Dick "gun in your face" Cheney's warmongering lies? Nearly the whole of congress for one, all because they wanted to. Makin Murica Grate Agin!

We have a Presidential candidate in 2016 praising an expert in disinformation and known war criminal Henry fucking Kissinger.

  • The Domino Theory crapola.
  • Reds under the beds style McCarthyism
  • The war on drugs designed to hide regime change
  • The trickle down economy the neo-liberals wet dream.
  • The war on terror allowing torture, pre-emptive war, flag fondling and a never ending dose of exceptionalism to pardon our own crimes. A neoconservative victory if ever there was one.
  • The imposition of a form of asset stripping capitalism on the whole world bending nations to our will.

Add your own favourites.

I suppose these were all dreamt up in the bloody Kremlin?

Dear god, are we responsible for anything we do?

Now we are not responsible for our own Presidential choices?

We halle-fucking-lujah let off scott free again.

Does it make you feel better?

Yes?

Prepare to be screwed again.

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Pluto's Republic's picture

…anywhere else on Earth these serial delusions across time would have been almost impossible to maintain.

My view is that everything the US is, has evolved as a result of geography. Physically isolated from the civilized world, no neighbors we consider peers to emulate, nothing for Americans to experience of the globally urban world of 190 adjacent nations, thus no sense of global socialization. We went down the path of hillbillies. Clever and dangerous global hillbillies. The recent US history of complete genocide and replacement created a culture with no collective wisdom or soul connection to the land; a culture that too easily relies on the lizard brain to view the outside world.

The American culture is anti-collective. It's a tragic waste, really. The people as individuals are generally decent and good. So many are extraordinary. But as a group, they are thoughtless savages doing terrible things to one another and worse to much of the rest of the world.

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____________________

The political system is what it is because the People are who they are. — Plato

@Pluto's Republic own, usually fact free.

I remember the start of the Invasion of Afghanistan objecting to a stupid war and act of thoughtless vengeance that would suck us in for decades and create more terrorism, being called Un-American was the least of it and from both sides of the fictive political divide.

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Pluto's Republic's picture

@LaFeminista

Were you in the US at the time? It was like a drunken slobbering sports bar whose team had lost. The screams for war and killing. Anyone would do. Pick a nation and let's go kill them. Americans, to this day, think we are at war with Afghanistan. The lizard brain in action.

For me, Iraq was an afterthought. Meh. Clearly much, much worse would now be unleashed. All because of our thoughtless Afghanistan atrocity. It's our tar baby. We will never leave there until we destroy ourselves. Just like the Soviets before us, in their own idiotic war on terror.

That was, and is, a point-of-view that gets no traction at all. It won't make sense for centuries.

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____________________

The political system is what it is because the People are who they are. — Plato

@Pluto's Republic

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@Pluto's Republic

we dropped peanut butter in Afghanistan during the day. Surely, that made up for dropping bombs on them at night. /sarcasm

A very observant Catholic friend actually remarked to me about the peanut butter, "What a witness!"

I opened my mouth to reply, then closed it. I was too emotional to speak. And not in a good way.

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Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@Pluto's Republic Your hypothesis is that something fundamental to American culture (the distance from other societies occasioned by our having a large ocean on each side) resides in the collective character of the people and manifests as barbarism as soon as a large enough number of Americans act together. It's a plausible argument, but I'm not sure how it can be extrapolated from a system where it's been proven the vast majority of people have no influence over what happens at all.

Now, there are certainly other bits of data that suggest to me that you're mostly right about (white, euro-extracted) American culture having tendencies toward anti-collectivism and barbarism. But the barbarism that's being waged overseas and here by the military, police, and private security forces has little if anything to do with the character of the American people. It has more to do with the character of tyranny, which seems to operate in a terrifyingly similar way across time and space.

If we understand and agree that the United States is neither a democracy nor a republic, that the average person, even the average upper-middle-class person, has little or no influence over what the government does, little or no influence over what the media does, little or no influence over how our children are educated, little or no influence over 90% of what constitutes "American" activity (I put it in quotation marks because it's American activity that is impermeable to the influence of the majority of Americans), then it's a failure of logic to attribute the kind of essential, character-based, indeed, geography-based, blame to the same people who have no influence and who, as far as we can tell, haven't had any influence for at least 16 years (I'm of the opinion it's more like 30 or possibly even more.)

We can't have it both ways. Either we have political representation and the policies of the nation arise from our collective decisions, which arise from our culture, our character as a people--or we have no political representation and the policies of the nation are being determined without reference to our desires, decisions, culture or character. I would like to say these policies are often determined, in spite of our desires, decisions, and characters. There is a fair amount of evidence that that is so. But I don't feel I've got conclusive proof of that. What has been proven is that the wealthy and powerful in this country, who constitute a fairly small percentage of the whole, control discourse and policy nearly absolutely--and without reference to any characteristic of the people, including their opinions and morals.

Therefore you can't hypothesize that what's been going on in this country since the fall of representative government arises from the character of the American people, or anything else about the people--unless your entire argument is based on the idea that Americans are cowards for not rising up in revolution against their horrible system. But if that's a function of American culture or American character, how do you explain the fact that most subjects of tyranny put up with it for a very long time, sometimes even after their children are being taken away, tortured, killed? There's nothing distinctly American about being afraid to fight an asymmetric war.

You could certainly make such an argument about choices made when the people actually had meaningful choices. There's been a lot of debate over when this was, if ever (it's a very popular viewpoint to say the people never did have meaningful choices). I, personally, think that the people had influence over the political structure, of a kind, up till the mid-nineties, though the fall began around 1978, accelerated horribly in the mid-eighties, and arguably had not entirely finished the transformation into tyranny until 2001/2. But in 1994, the Clintons had taken over the Democratic Party and Newt Gingrich had taken over the Republican party. The Clintons headed the Democratic Party towards corporatism and corruption, while Gingrich and his faction started heading the Republicans toward la-la-land. In 1996, the Telecommunications Act passed. From that point on, both politics and journalism (or as it came to be called, "the media") were impermeable to any Americans who were not rich and well-connected.

The only thing the last twenty years says definitively about the character of the American people is that we are reluctant to rise up in revolution. That could mean a lot of things, but I'd start with the idea that most people don't want to die or be thrown in prison.

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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

Pluto's Republic's picture

To: @Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal

This point you make really deserves a response:

Therefore you can't hypothesize that what's been going on in this country since the fall of representative government arises from the character of the American people, or anything else about the people--unless your entire argument is based on the idea that Americans are cowards for not rising up in revolution against their horrible system. But if that's a function of American culture or American character, how do you explain the fact that most subjects of tyranny put up with it for a very long time, sometimes even after their children are being taken away, tortured, killed?

I do not think Americans are cowardly at all (Hiroshima and Nagasaki notwithstanding). But they are better at slipping into denial than any people I have encountered anywhere in the world. That could be cultural, but it might be character. It's typical of behaviors that evolved to deal with certain stressors. You pivot with the question: "...how do you explain the fact that most subjects of tyranny put up with it for a very long time, sometimes even after their children are being taken away...."

That immediately reminded of the Declaration of Independence, which made that same point in the same way:

All experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed.

The authors didn't know much about all mankind, but they knew plenty about the European variety, where that appears to be universal, regardless of geography.

I wasn't thinking about the lack of rebellion in my comment. I was thinking about sociopathy and libertarianism and a general hillbilly ethos — clannish self-worshipers — that in my view describes the American gestalt in relation to the cultures of the world. I was also thinking about the North Koreans and how isolation gave them the same characteristics — xenophobic, frightened, blustering... hillbillies. I was thinking how North Koreans and Americans both have governments they cannot control and how the people have to work hard to pay for all the weapons their governments want while denying themselves basic rights and a better life. The Geopolitical crowd regard Americans as the least informed population in the developed world. I would say that the North Koreans and the Americans suffer from the same extreme levels of government propaganda. And their isolation makes it stick.

In that sense, I don't blame today's Americans, as a whole, for what they are going through. But for those people who are actually awake and aware in a big picture way, I do blame them for not getting themselves and their children established in a better nation. It's astonishingly cruel, to me. On the other hand, they may have a better plan that I can't see. We are the authors of our own fate, in the US in particular, since it is still possible to leave.

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____________________

The political system is what it is because the People are who they are. — Plato
Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@Pluto's Republic Most of the reasons I don't emigrate are small and personal. First, I have a family member who has had type-1 diabetes for the last 30+ years. It makes it harder to get other countries to accept you when they know you're bringing someone with a serious medical condition with you, even when you accept that you won't be included in their national medical system, but will have to pay out-of-pocket (which still often comes out to less than what we pay here). Second, I have cats, one old with health problems and one who is, well--shall we say "high-strung?" The quarantine we would have to put them into if moving to a foreign land would probably hasten the death of the one and drive the other permanently crazy (she was weaned too soon as a kitten, which does things to their brains; she actually does pretty well considering, but being stuck in quarantine for months without us would push her right over the edge). Third, there's my mother and her husband, who are elderly. He has health problems. I have no siblings. Thankfully, there's enough money that that doesn't mean I *have* to be here, but it's a consideration. In any case, I couldn't go anywhere until both cats had died, at the earliest.

On a larger level, I'm aware that what I'm fighting is actually global and is attempting to establish a global political monoculture, so there's few places I could go and actually get away from it. That said, this is where its home base is, and it's shifted from a policy of "don't shit where you eat" to a policy of "time to dismantle this place too." This is where it has already established almost-total control, so it's uglier here than many places. But the places I could go that are mostly free from its control are few. Iceland, Bolivia, Ecuador...or I could go and hide behind one of the other two superpowers. That's basically it. Europe, well, it hasn't reached the horrible standards of living and governance that we have, but it started from a higher, better place than we did. In terms of figuring out who has the real power over Europe--on the one hand, I saw what happened when the US thought Snowden was in Evo Morales' plane. Europe closed its airspace. It's pretty clear from that that, through NATO, the US basically runs Europe, at least in terms of what military actions take place there. On the other hand, there's Brexit, which is interesting in that even Obama flying overseas and shaking his finger at the British wasn't enough to keep them in the fold. That implies that, economically and politically, European countries can still push back. On the other hand, it also implies that the European Union is a tool of the neoliberal movement, which is based here and likes American supremacy because that's where neoliberals keep their military, but which exists globally and has pretensions of becoming the only social order on the planet.

For a while there, South America was pushing back against neoliberalism--Venezuela, Brazil, Ecuador, Bolivia, probably others, though "we" kept our foothold there in the aptly-named Colombia and I think also Peru. But you see what's happened in Brazil and what's been happening in Venezuela. The CIA is toppling the dissident governments in Latin America. That's probably what happened in Honduras too. "We're"getting all Monroe Doctrine again.

So this is a global fight, with frightening implications. If it were just about the fall of the American empire, I'd be worried about my future, but would be a lot happier than I am now. I wish it were just an evil, corrupted American nation I had to worry about.

I should start a second open thread called "From the Hangar" or "From the Silo" because that's what America really is: storage for the weapons of the global neoliberals; the place where those weapons get maintained and stored and new ones created. Maybe "From the Magazine" or "From the Dump."

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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

Pluto's Republic's picture

@Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal

Who can argue with the theory of global contamination? It's an interdependent world. The collapse of US Empire will be widely felt. Unfortunately, the adversity cannot be contained in just the US, where it is so very richly deserved. Also, the world will not experience the containment of US terrorism in a directly beneficial way. Plus, the geography problem will still evoke psychological issues, and the Fourth Reich will rise again and again. The pressures of a drowning world assures that. The US should just close its borders after empire falls and save the world a headache.

I had a friend who was a State Department spook in South America. In the course of her assignments, she picked up a husband and produced five kids and five cats. By the time they all decamped and returned to DC, one was college age. Their large rented house was a menagerie when I visited. The cats, who were addressed in Spanish, were clearly running the place. When you travel on the State Department dime, all the details we would fret about simply get done. She had great aplomb in her disheveled way. The next day I met her at the State Department and she took me to their annual bra and panty sale in the basement. Did you know there is a private shopping center beneath the various Departments of International Chaos, with tunnels heading off every which way? It was my first encounter with the "Deep State" and the highlight of my visit. But I digress.

The current situation in the US was looming decades ago. However the geography of the US does have its own advantages. It would be nice if it had a usable infrastructure (rail) and was handgun-free, but you work with the country you have. Migrating out of the massive center drought zone early on, before the state/regions erect border controls, is a sound strategy, as is remaining inland. Once Empire is neutered, there will be resources galore.

As for governance in other nations, most seem to work well enough. There are many watchdog organizations that monitor and certify elections alongside the UN. On that note, I was very encouraged by the Brexit vote. It left me optimistic, not because I agree with the policy, but because it demonstrates that the power of the people still exists. That was the day I knew Trump was going to win. Both Brexit and Trump are poison pills, of course, but people should think about their own power when they look at that. People did that; not their corrupt Parties. That kind of power is pretty awesome. I hope folks figure that out soon because they can pretty much have whatever they want right now. Government is scrambling to shut it down, criminalizing assembly and curtailing Internet communications, with continuing news blackouts about such matters.

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____________________

The political system is what it is because the People are who they are. — Plato


Donald Trump’s willingness to embrace Russian disinformation...

Disinformation? I thought the Wikileaks revelations were aggregations of factual emails that the Clintons never denied the veracity of. Calling these leaks of factual information 'disinformation' is disinformation of the highest order.

So I guess this means they're doubling down again, eh?

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James Kroeger

@James Kroeger they would only make themselves look bad, Russians!

When a politician uses the words "greater transparency" I find it helpful to blow a raspberry.

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@James Kroeger
I'm home with the hubby today, just watched a CBS Evening News report on the Senate Intel Cmte. hearings. The report showed a former FBI counterintel spook testifying, and he was characterized as saying that Russian disinformation promoted Occupy Wall Street and Black Lives Matter protests.

In other words, they're using this to go back to full McCarthyism, trying to tar and smear leftist political movements. I couldn't have been more surprised....

The intel community is going to use this scandal to the utmost to push their agenda, and keep us all in fear. They're already trying to stamp the hammer and sickle on any Unofficial Sources of Information. It's going to be depressing watching Americans fall for this shit again.

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Please help support caucus99percent!

@Dallasdoc a daily basis just the ripples picked up by our press over here.

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shaharazade's picture

@Dallasdoc @Dallasdoc or then again maybe we all don't. Enough ordinary people globally and here in der Homeland have rejected this as they let that moron creepy developer TV reality show host get elected rather then suffer through another Demoratic Clinton, psycho killer, disaster free market administration, or the great pretender Obomber. We have no choice anywhere globally and that is the dilemma regardless of who you are, where you live or what your political inclinations are on the bogus scale of right to left.

Whether your in Greece, England, China, Russia or the USA! or anywhere on planet earth your trapped by multiple choices that are designed to divide and conquer. Are you or have you ever been a supporter of Farage or Trump? Do you support Putin? It's all just bs. designed to promote the horrendous state of the world by those who have power. These people could careless which political party anywhere gets elected or is in power as long as they tow the lines drawn.

Who cares really which assholes run the global show as none of them from professed socialists like Bernie to insane developers like Trump give a rat's ass about the damage done. I can't get too worked up about any of these pols and their rabid followers or their toadies in the government like Maxine Waters ("wrapping his arms around Putin") when they all rein death and destruction down on humanity and the earth. For what? Profit? Dominion? Security (lol).

Gimme a break it's a bag o' rats and none of them are even worth listening to. So carry on carrying on and let me know when you all get a grip and say enough to all of these players be they Bernie or Maxine or anyone they throw out and tell you is 'progressive' or resisting. Yeah right. And please sign this useless petition cause what? Get a grip they are all complicit regardless of where you stand on the totally false political scale of right to left.

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Pluto's Republic's picture

@shaharazade

She's engaged in a great struggle trying to change the lightbulbs in her inner mansion before it gets too dark to see.

I think it's shameless they way they trot her out to deliver the cray-cray.

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____________________

The political system is what it is because the People are who they are. — Plato
chuckvw's picture

@Dallasdoc Republicrat John Warner cited "thousands of bots" planting false info across the interwebs. How many of us can recall being called "bot" when we expressed well-founded doubt about Clinton's incompetent campaign, or praised Bernie Sanders... or if we suggested that Obama wasn't the Second Coming.

Our "leadership" class is bat shit crazy across the board.I don't see equilibrium being restored any time soon. Actually, I'm even more pessimistic than that...

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You should only listen to both sides when one side isn't totally full of shit. -Jim Jefferies

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@chuckvw and yet when we mentioned the thousands of bots Hillary hired David Brock to deploy across the internet--that was all fair play. Just part of the game. If you can't stand the heat, etc. And you shouldn't be criticizing Hillary anyway.

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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

@Dallasdoc Wikileaks revealed that in one speech, Hillary blamed the Russians for making people anti-fracking. A NYTimes article last year essentially blamed Putin for being behind resistance to TPP. We now have establishment democrats blaming Bernie supporters as being Russian stooges, just as many blamed the inciting of the Civil Rights movement as the fault of communist agents:

http://www.rawstory.com/2017/03/russians-used-bernie-bros-as-unwitting-a...

As Greenwald twitted:

We've arrived at what was always the inevitable point: anyone not loyally & squarely cheering for Clinton was a Kremlin "agent" or stooge:

And now with the Senate hearing, I say we have reached pretty much the final point that goes beyond Clinton and squarely back to McCarthy: "Dissent = Russian treason/subversion".

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@James Kroeger

As in untampered with in any way. No redactions, alterations, edits, etc. Just exactly as the snakes sent and received them.

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when I probably would have read all that horseshit and eaten it up. Had I never hit that other place and read many comment streams in the NYT (where the really good stuff used to be the context added to articles that never did that, but I haven't been there in quite a while now and no longer subscribe to that rag) I would still be woefully ignorant of just how much of the "news" is utter and complete bullshit. There are days I'm not sure it's necessarily a good thing that I see their shit now, life was in many ways so much simpler when the only boogeyman was the Tea Party lunatics. To watch this happening in real time just amazes me still, and I know that there are many out here on this site who've seen it all along! And my step-mother, ignorant RWNJ she is, wonders why I drink.

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Only a fool lets someone else tell him who his enemy is. Assata Shakur

@lizzyh7 If we had had an honest discourse during the democratic primary where the DNC and press basically did everything in the power because "this was her time" and made up a whole pile of BS about Bernie I might of had a twinge of sympathy. The again, this was hardly the first time.

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@LaFeminista NONE. They betrayed everything I thought they stood for. And yeah, I am willing to admit my own failure to look at them more closely for part of that. I think they're all happy as hell with Trump and they'll let him get away with destruction all in the name of being obstructed, just like Obama did. Now that I see it I don't know how I ever missed it, their tells are so easy to spot now.

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Only a fool lets someone else tell him who his enemy is. Assata Shakur

Big Al's picture

@lizzyh7 you can never go back.

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Big Al's picture

Big Al's picture

It's RT and Sputnik's fault and because Trump cited an article from Sputnik, that's why he was elected by 26% of the American people.

And there's a bunch of semi-important people sitting in these rooms in Congress acting like they're semi-important and that they know what they're doing. They wear ties nice dresses and mostly look all the same, because they are all the same.

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@Big Al What the fuck didn't we get?

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@LaFeminista with Bernie, either. Sad to say, they'd have cockblocked Bernie And the people for at least two years 'till the midterms. And maybe even beyond. They're psycho/sociopaths that don't give a fuck but they got theirs. Bonus points for going out of their way to fuck over as many other people as possible on the way to get theirs. Sick bahstahds.
Do what you can to help, whatever you think that might be. This lifestyle(?) is going away sooner than we think, it seems like it's sliding faster every day, to me. Gotta hold on like it's sand-just right or it's gone.

peace

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Ya got to be a Spirit, cain't be no Ghost. . .

Explain Bldg #7. . . still waiting. . .

If you’ve ever wondered whether you would have complied in 1930’s Germany,
Now you know. . .
sign at protest march

Bollox Ref's picture

reminds me of the whole Republican 'Benghazi' thing.

I can't be bothered to try and understand either.

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Gëzuar!!
from a reasonably stable genius.

@Bollox Ref

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I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.

is in on this idiotic wild goose chase. What a pitiful excuse for a governing body it is.

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native

lotlizard's picture

@native seems to be more functional and to wield more actual power than either the European Parliament or the U.S. Congress.

All have been revealed to be not much more than rubber stamps for the executive, except the European Parliament adds a gilded expense-account lifestyle for its members, while the U.S. Congress adds a three-ring circus and fake reality show.

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Therefore, it's only a conspiracy theory when someone from the left of the left is doing the theorizing.

When government and/or establishment media is doing the propagandizing theorizing, it's

a sound hypothesis or sound theory.

a likelihood

Very probably correct.

Corroborated by no fewer than seventy four thirty highly-respected government agencies.

Definitely the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth--and anyone questioning is a (ugh!) nutter conspiracy theorist!

Yeah, that's it. That's the ticket!

https://caucus99percent.com/content/theory-conspiracy-theory-or-healthy-...

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@HenryAWallace

of the Kennedy brothers and MLK that the term "conspiracy theory" became widely used as a pejorative. All research that contradicted the official version of these events was labeled "conspiracy theory", and was then either ridiculed or largely ignored by the msm. To even suggest that American officialdom might have been involved in these heinous crimes, was akin to heresy. It was considered to be quite literally unthinkable.

And so when the WTC collapsed mysteriously into its own footprints thirty years later, the US public had already been well-conditioned to accept an official explanation (no matter how improbable) of why and how it happened. The convenient, and much reviled category of "conspiracy theory" had already been established, in which to place any and all contradictory information and evidence about it.

The parallels and similarities between the assassinations of 1968 and the attacks 2001, in regard to the subsequent official cover-ups in both cases, and the very unfortunate after-effects of both, seem obvious to me. That they both involved high-level, and officially sanctioned conspiracies of one kind or another is I think, not so much a "theory" but rather more of a highly probable hypothesis, approaching a certainty.

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native

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@native Well said.

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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

LeChienHarry's picture

@native @native the founding of the Secret State" by David Talbot. This ignore the president and do what you want where ever you want, has been going on since before WWII.

When Patrice Lumumba (sp?) was tortured and beaten to death: the first democratically elected president of a former Belgian colony, his replacement, capture and death had our Deep State fingerprints all over it.

There is a picture of Kennedy holding his head in his hand getting the news one whole month after the killing, as it was withheld from him. He was officially for newly democratic movements in Africa and other places in the world, unlike the CIA and other groups of people with economic interests in countries around the world.

And meddle we did, and still do.

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You may choose to look the other way, but you can never say again you did not know. ~ William Wiberforce

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@LeChienHarry

the Halls of Power to this day. They say President Trump doesn't sleep much... maybe it's to avoid having nightmares about him.

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native

@native

Well said, indeed! 'We know (their) methods, Watson.'

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Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.

A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.

@native .

that the triple homicides of 1968 and the 9/11 atrocity are intimately related. There is a great deal of evidence, both circumstantial and physical, that points to this conclusion -- though much if not most of it has been suppressed. Out of sight out of mind, as they say.

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native

@native

have to remember that a theory is only a theory and any theory about more than one person doing wrong is a theory about conspiracy. I've even seen a few knee jerkers use the term "conspiracy theory' when only ONE person was involved because we're so used to using the term when we don't believe something.

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Putin unlike the Hillary campaign, election pundits, media pundits knew that WI, MI, Ohio, and PA were in play so sent 1000 fake story programmers to ensure Turmp's victory. At every turn in this conspiracy, Putin has outwitted the greatest electoral minds of the democratic party.

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@MrWebster

If anyone on the left said that because a leftist candidate lost, the Hillarious would be pointing and laughing.

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Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

Decades of Russian covert attempts to undermine confidence in western institutions, including planting or promoting false news stories or spreading doubt about the integrity of elections,

So those "doubts" we had about the integrity of elections in 2000 and 2004 were because we fell vulnerable to "Russian covert attempts to undermine confidence in western institutions?" Or is it just Hill's 2016 Tyranny Tour that they're referring to?

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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

@Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal

Hey, like the polluting industries who perfected such tactics and fund/reward them, corporate politicians and their collaborators never waste a PR cover excuse. The same victim(s) 'multitasks' again and again in such propaganda.

Although I'm seeing an embarrassment of riches in the number of victims variously chosen by the Clinton contingent to bear the blame for the mutual repulsion displayed between the Clintons and the more aware American voters resulting in 'lesser evil' (The Trump of Potentially Survivable Doom VS The Mad Bomber Promising Donors To Get MAD - Mutual Assured Destruction Globally) voting by those permitted no real electoral choice.

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Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.

A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@Ellen North The 2016 Presidential Election (definition):

the mutual repulsion displayed between the Clintons and the more aware American voters resulting in 'lesser evil' (The Trump of Potentially Survivable Doom VS The Mad Bomber Promising Donors To Get MAD - Mutual Assured Destruction Globally) voting by those permitted no real electoral choice.

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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver