Two Rangers, now vets, encourage troops not to go to border UPDATED Breaking

069-800x600 saws essay  .jpg President Trump is attracting a diverse group of critics for his political stunt of sending active military on top of the National Guard already there on the southern border, trying to sell it as protecting us from sick and impoverished group of asylum seekers weeks away from making it to the US border.

There is little doubt that debate over policies related to refugees will continue, especially as the climate deteriorates at an increasingly rapid pace. Millions of refugees will be fleeing to the United States, and if one buys into the premises of Deep Adaptation:
A Map for Navigating Climate Tragedy
(hat tip to mhagle), these debates will be time well spent.

We know that neither the Democrats or Republicans are likely to conduct this debate in any meaningful, humane, or timely fashion.

Instead we will likely get stunts, though it is hard to imagine any as blatantly transparent as those of the Trump Administration.

The Law

I was wondering if someone would discuss the legality of Mr. Trump's actions and I found this.

A legal action is being filed on behalf of some of the refugees.

Mexico City - Parents travelling in a US-bound caravan of thousands of Central American migrants and refugees are taking legal action on behalf of their children against US President Donald Trump's border detention plans.

The parents of six minors, all currently travelling north through southern Mexico, are the plaintiffs in a civil action filed Thursday in a District of Columbia court against Trump and nine top Trump administration officials.

The suit claims Trump "continues to abuse the law, including constitutional rights, to deter Central Americans from exercising their lawful right to seek asylum in the United States".

As you can imagine some of the President's supporters are spinning this action a bit.

....

Today I was somewhat shocked to read that two veterans, former Rangers, are encouraging troops not to deploy.

And finally, the news from the title tease.

Warning Trump Making US Soldiers Props in Racist Border 'Stunt,' Veterans Call on Active-Duty Troops to Refuse Orders to Deploy

"These extremely poor and vulnerable people are desperate for peace. Who among us would walk a thousand miles with only the clothes on our back without great cause?"
by
Julia Conley, staff writer

Republicans and Democrats Critical of Mr. Trump's action

A handful of Republicans have criticized Mr. Trump's decision [stunt] to send active duty military to southern border.

Ahhh the Democrats respond!

100 Dims sent a strongly worded letter to Mattis? Whut? BREAKING: Over 100 House Democrats sign letter to Mattis opposing troops at border

The irrepressible Code Pink:

Update :

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divineorder's picture

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A truth of the nuclear age/climate change: we can no longer have endless war and survive on this planet. Oh sh*t.

Big Al's picture

It's ridiculous but for Trump it's red meat for his base. They eat it up like slobbering fucking idiots.
I don't have any say in how this country is run but if I did I would say I don't want a president, any president. I think this business of having presidents, like the new one Brazil is getting, is old, stale, harmful, divisive, and needs to end. I'm not sure why more people aren'y saying that, but they probably know they don't have any say either.
I suppose if enough of us said something at the same time, then maybe we would have a say.

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divineorder's picture

@Big Al See update, above. He has finally gone there, as some have been predicting.

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A truth of the nuclear age/climate change: we can no longer have endless war and survive on this planet. Oh sh*t.

snoopydawg's picture

about this, but I'd like them to go further and say that many of the immigrants are leaving their countries because of their actions when they served. Some of them are climate refugees, but many of them are war refugees. Obama and Hillary welcomed the Honduran coup.

New rule. If your country is responsible for fucking up another one then it's responsible for its citizens that can no longer live there. I'm seeing people saying that they should stay home and make their country better. Riiight. People who are armed with 'rocks' can go up against people with guns and other weapons.

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divineorder's picture

@snoopydawg @snoopydawg

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A truth of the nuclear age/climate change: we can no longer have endless war and survive on this planet. Oh sh*t.

snoopydawg's picture

@divineorder

Not! Again I can not fathom what type of person can watch as innocent civilians are killed while they are making money from the event.

I wondered if this act went against posse comitatus, but I read that the military can't be used for domestic problems, but thought that Trump would say it's for national security so it's legal. Good to hear that he's getting some push back on this.

I actually wondered if this was being done so that people wouldn't be upset that the military is being deployed on US soil because they don't like immigrants coming here. And that people are okay with him rescinding the 14th for the same reason. Then the next time it's done people would think it's not a big deal. The military is deployed after a disaster or economic crash and a few more of our rights are removed again. Mission creep inside the USA.

Look at what happened when SWAT declared martial law after the Boston bombing. People were told to vacate their homes and SWAT went in without warrants. People were okay with that because they were afraid.. but it went against our laws.

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@snoopydawg rescinded.

Trump is being consistent with its letter as well as the history behind it. The proposer of the amendment said it was not meant to cover foreigners who birth babies in the US.

That said, that part of the amendment has not been enforced in recent years, so practically speaking, Congress needs to clarify with a regulation or the 14th itself needs to be clarified.

Even right wingers are critical of Trump using an EO to stop birthright citizenship. Some have said he needs to go through Congress.

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dfarrah

gulfgal98's picture

@dfarrah If there is an interpretation of the 14th Amendment, it should come before the Supreme Court. And we know how that will end now that the Court is very conservative.

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Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?

“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy

@gulfgal98 But to me, the plain wording of the amendment and the original purpose of the amendment does not grant birthright immigration. But in practice, we do have the birthright immigration.

It will be interesting to see where this goes; after all, if the SC were to decide that the 14th does not allow the birthright immigration, the states can try to pass an amendment, or nibbles of statutes here and there could contravene the SC's interpretation (like abortion).

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dfarrah

gulfgal98's picture

@snoopydawg I am all for having secure borders. I think every country has the right to protect its borders.

But and this is a big but, when we caused war in another country because we wanted regime change, then we should be willing to bear the responsibility for creating the resulting refugee crisis. This means we must be willing to accept refugees as a result. Don't cause wars and there will be no refugee crisis as a result.

I actually wondered if this was being done so that people wouldn't be upset that the military is being deployed on US soil because they don't like immigrants coming here. And that people are okay with him rescinding the 14th for the same reason. Then the next time it's done people would think it's not a big deal. The military is deployed after a disaster or economic crash and a few more of our rights are removed again. Mission creep inside the USA.

This has also crossed my mind. This caravan was not an organic happening. Who organized it and who is paying for it? These people are walking 1,000 miles with only the clothes on their backs? What are they eating? Where are they sleeping, etc? How did they get trucks to help transport them? I do not doubt that they are desperate, but someone is helping them to reach our border. It might help to know exactly who that is. I am thinking the New World Order. They want the breakdown of borders, laws, and society, not just in third world countries but also in first world countries. Trump sending the military to the border is enabling that further breakdown of law and order here in the US.

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Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?

“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy

@gulfgal98 backpacks.

Supposedly, it has been funded by lefties in Honduras.

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dfarrah

gulfgal98's picture

@dfarrah @dfarrah I know people who have hiked the Appalachian Trail which is less than twice the distance from Honduras to the US border. Most people take four months or more to do about 2200 miles, and they have supply stops along the way. The fastest time on to do the AT was set this year by a ultramarathoner who was completely supported (which meant he carried nothing and was met for food stops along the way) the entire way and his time was like 45 days or so.

These people are not trained athletes like the guy who set the AT record, nor can they possibly carry enough food or other necessities to make this trip without great hardship and yet they seem to be moving effortlessly along the way. Some one is supporting them and probably providing transportation to enable them to make to the US border in time for the mid term elections.

Like I said, I am sure people want to escape the war which we promoted in Honduras, but there is something more to this. Someone is definitely promoting this and probably funding this caravan. The timing is too convenient for me not to see an ulterior motive in those who organized this caravan.

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Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?

“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy

@gulfgal98 that it wasn't organic and it has support outside the individuals' resources.

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dfarrah

@snoopydawg small fraction of the almost 10 million who are staying put.

The group is comprised of mostly healthy, young men. Why?

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dfarrah

divineorder's picture

@dfarrah source for that bit about young males. Thanks.

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A truth of the nuclear age/climate change: we can no longer have endless war and survive on this planet. Oh sh*t.

@divineorder

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/70-80-percent-of-caravan-is-adul...

Also, if you look at the larger masses of people, and not the small groups panned across here and there, you can see that it is mostly young men.

But I suppose the reporting could be wrong, but it seems correct to me.

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dfarrah

divineorder's picture

@dfarrah

This action really makes the US look weak and ridiculous . But of course it is about elections and stirring up the base, not national security.

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A truth of the nuclear age/climate change: we can no longer have endless war and survive on this planet. Oh sh*t.

@divineorder even consider that Trump's efforts could be deliberately prophylactic to discourage the migrants.

I don't know - it was not a pretty picture in Europe when those countries accepted migrants. But they didn't have the time to prepare.

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dfarrah

@divineorder started this movement to coincide with the elections so that it could be all political?

And really, Trump supporters don't need a caravan to be motivated to vote. His base is ready to vote, regardless of immigrant issues, just like the dem base is motivated against Trump.

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dfarrah

@divineorder specifically say 'young' men. My bad.

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dfarrah

snoopydawg's picture

@dfarrah

I just think that if we ruin someone's country then we should be willing to help them out.

Yes both Bush and Obama sent troops to the border, but weren't they the national guard not active military? Besides they can't do squat compared to what the border control agents can do. This means that they are not allowed to do police actions inside the country because it goes against posse comitatus.
This is an expensive for show stunt in my opinion. But it has gotten his base riled up hasn't it?

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@snoopydawg you that when we ruin a country, we should repair.

I'm not understanding the notion that border patrol can handle this group. when the border patrol already can't handle the typical border crossing volume (why else do we have millions of illegal immigrants in the US if border patrol could handle the volume?).

I speculate that Trump wants to handle everything at once, rather than catching and releasing.

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dfarrah

divineorder's picture

@dfarrah

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A truth of the nuclear age/climate change: we can no longer have endless war and survive on this planet. Oh sh*t.

@divineorder existential crisis?

And what does the illegal immigration rate have to do with the question at hand?

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dfarrah

mimi's picture

I hope I am right. If the Veterans and Army Rangers come to their senses and refuse and reject the orders of the President, they are doing their duty, because imo the President's orders are unlawful. To decide if that is so would be a discussion worth having among those who are experts in military law, I assume.
[video:https://youtu.be/rrTrK-b4k1g]
hmm, too much for me, but may be it helps others...
Braking Ranks:Dissent and the Miltiary Professional

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@mimi

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Life is what you make it, so make it something worthwhile.

This ain't no dress rehearsal!

@mimi the penalty for insubordination in the military is death?

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dfarrah

Mark from Queens's picture

@dfarrah
refusing their orders from Eric Honecker to fire upon demonstrators at the Berlin Wall, that a whole system comes tumbling down (a story Chris Hedges is fond of personally recalling).

Things don't have a chance until righteous enforcers, whether in police dept's, the armed forces, the intelligence sector, district attorneys, judges and/or high level politicians, begin to publicly denounce their superiors and become whistleblowers and dissidents. But especially the cops and military, of whom without, the Powers That Be are defenseless and already beaten.

To that end, it should be obvious to anyone what the police's primary function really is. As James Baldwin said in reference to an uprising in Harlem in 1964 after cops killed another unarmed young black man,

...the police are simply the hired enemies of this population. They are present to keep the Negro in his place and to protect white business interests, and they have no other function.”

And to continue with his renowned brilliance on assessing subjects to their most bare element:

They are, moreover — even in a country which makes the very grave error of equating ignorance with simplicity — quite stunningly ignorant; and, since they know that they are hated, they are always afraid. One cannot possibly arrive at a more surefire formula for cruelty.

This is why those pious calls to “respect the law,” always to be heard from prominent citizens each time the ghetto explodes, are so obscene. The law is meant to be my servant and not my master, still less my torturer and my murderer. To respect the law, in the context in which the American Negro finds himself, is simply to surrender his self-respect.

Its Truth rings as crystal clear today as it it did when he wrote it.

We'll really need to appeal to those few cops who think for themselves and are reachable, to convince their fraternal brothers that they are in essence, and have always been, used as pawns to carry out the dirty work of the ruling elite.

Such as this OWS protester whose bravery and honesty caught quite a few eyes.

why-did-this-marine-occupywallstreet-full.jpg

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"If I should ever die, God forbid, let this be my epitaph:

THE ONLY PROOF HE NEEDED
FOR THE EXISTENCE OF GOD
WAS MUSIC"

- Kurt Vonnegut

@Mark from Queens analogous to a protest about the Berlin wall where there were orders to fire on the protestors.

Do you honestly think Trump is going to order the military to fire on these people?

And what is your solution to the various groups heading toward the border? Just ignore them?

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dfarrah

Big Al's picture

@dfarrah This is a guy who asked why he couldn't militarily invade Venezuela. In a sane world (this wouldn't be happening but . .) the governments of the countries involved should work together to find a sane and moral solution. We can't expect any of that from our government and especially not Trump.

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@Big Al actions would you propose to handle the groups?

I guess Trump could use FEMA instead-aren't they still working in hurricane struck areas?

I would think the military would be better to use to establish temporary housing and deal with logistics and policing, but I don't know.

And maybe the use of the military is done more to dissuade.

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dfarrah

Big Al's picture

@dfarrah That's why I asked if you knew about Honduras. In a sane and just world I'm talking, we'd put Clinton and Obama in prison for their roles in the coup that happened in Honduras. Then we would put Trump and his administration in prison for their neocolonialism in Latin America including regimes change operations in Venezuela and Nicaragua. Then we could go from there to seek real justices against the oligarchs and plutocrats who are causing all this.
Just some thought, I don't have time to flesh it out right out, not that it would matter.

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@Big Al But events simply are not going to play out that way for now or in the several upcoming months when the migrants arrive.

I am beginning to question the entire purpose of this group. It doesn't make sense for a group comprised of mostly young men to be migrating due to a 'humanitarian crisis.'

When one sees this type of movement due to dislocation and violence in other areas of the globe, you see all types of people, elderly, young, families, etc., and they usually look raggedy and sick.

Don't you find the situation odd at all?

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dfarrah

@Big Al he could."

Really? Then why doesn't he just go round up the NRA members to get 'er done?

I don't know where some posters get the idea that Trump is a bloodthirsty person, or any worse than other presidents and their military adventures. He has been comparatively tame in the war department.

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dfarrah

mimi's picture

@dfarrah

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snoopydawg's picture

@dfarrah

The troops should treat rock throwers like they have rifles.

How would you interpret that?

I would handle this group one person at a time. They legally get to apply for asylum at least at border crossings. I'm not sure if this applies if they enter somewhere else, but I've heard that they can. I don't believe in open borders either. But until the reason why people are trying to come here is addressed this is going to continue to happen.

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@snoopydawg

it the way cnbc and abc and such do it because of their constant hysteria and hyperbole.

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/11/02/trump-migrants-rocks-armed-958871

"They do that with us, they're going to be arrested," he added. "There are going to be problems. I didn't say shoot. I didn't say shoot."

"I don't want these people throwing rocks," the president said as he left the White House for a rally in West Virginia.

Trump on Thursday said that he would treat any rocks and stones thrown by migrants as firearms, continuing his..." heated rhetoric.

As usual, hyperventilating people think that Trump is just going to open fire on these people. What good would that do anyone, anywhere?

And the migrants, per the linked article, injured 7 policemen. Just what the US needs - provokers.

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dfarrah

snoopydawg's picture

@dfarrah

that he included in his tweet and he said at his rallies.

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@snoopydawg treat rocks like guns does not mean he is telling the military to shoot the people.

People need to get a grip instead of reading all kinds of meanings into everything.

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dfarrah

TheOtherMaven's picture

@dfarrah

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There is no justice. There can be no peace.

snoopydawg's picture

@Mark from Queens

But especially the cops and military, of whom without, the Powers That Be are defenseless and already beaten.

Yep. We know that police started out being slave patrols for the white plantation owners and that's who they still are today. I hoped that if enough of them changed sides and worked with us we might get somewhere. But ow if that happens the PTB will just hire private mercenaries who as we have seen are quite willing to beat up protesters. TigerShark proved that during the DAPL protests as did Blackwater after Katrina. We have as much chance of taking back our government as do the refugees. The PTB have all of the big toys and people willing to use them.

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mimi's picture

@dfarrah

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I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.

@The Voice In the Wilderness idea.

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dfarrah

hecate's picture

@The Voice In the Wilderness
idea. All soldiers, all over the world, should lay down their killing machines, and at once, and go home.

As Gurdjieff rightly replied, when asked during WWI what the combatants would do, if they truly became awake: “They would throw down their guns and go home to their families.”

This is especially true of the US, which has absolutely no need for a military at all.

The US is at peace with its neighbors, Canada and Mexico (though it is true the filthy psychotic shitpiece in the Oval Office would like to change that), and so therefore there is no need for a single US soldier, at all.

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janis b's picture

@hecate

What a difference it would make.

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@hecate

This is especially true of the US, which has absolutely no need for a military at all.
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I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.

know that Bush and Obama also sent troops to the border?

And the freaking out over the notion that the migrants might be shot by the military is ridiculous (although, it could certainly happen if someone on either side gets violent-I fear someone in the US could start something).

This is not a political stunt. Do you honestly think that the current border personnel are enough to process this mass of people?

The military is going to hold these people for processing, after which, from what I've heard, about 80% will be sent back to wherever (since the usual number of migrants who meet asylum parameters runs around 20%).

I think the military's aid will help toward quick processing and will reduce the catch and release population.

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dfarrah

Big Al's picture

@dfarrah And yes, I believe the border patrol and ICE is more than capable of handling this situation. But like I said above, a rational "leader" wouldn't be calling for the military, they would be calling for rational and humane solutions to the overall problem of refugee immigration instead of more might makes right bullshit. You know almost all of these people are from Honduras right? And you know about Honduras right?

Relative to Bush and Obama, I'll say what I have to say to my brother and others all the time - I said the same things about Bush and Obama. Trump is just the same thing only different.

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@Big Al border patrols are already overwhelmed (or their processes are not working), hence the presence of so many illegals in our country, those entities are apparently not enough to handle the additional humans on top of the typical load.

The migrants appear to be very well provisioned by someone, someone who could be provisioning them in their own country.

The US already gives plenty of aid to Honduras (not that that means it is used as intended). It is a country of about almost 10 million people, of which only a few hundred thousand decided to leave. The majority of the group appears to be healthy, young men. If this is truly a humanitarian crisis, like in the east, it sure doesn't look like one.

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dfarrah

CS in AZ's picture

@dfarrah

The job of the US military is not to police this country. If more border patrol agents and “processors” are needed then hire them. Trump has been president for almost two years. Why has he not fixed this problem, when protecting the border is supposedly his top priority. Instead he does nothing until the week before the election, when suddenly we have an “invasion” that is thousands of miles away but nonetheless a crisis, and he sends in active duty military while making threats, although he says he hopes they won’t “have to” shoot them. How comforting.

Don’t blame the press or anyone else for “hyperventilating” because Trump said yesterday that the military would “fight back” and consider rocks to be the same as rifles. That was a clear threat to have our military shooting people at the border. Now today he’s trying to walk it back a little bit.

This is not what either Obama or Bush did. They sent national guard troops, not active duty, and they made it clear in their speeches that the guard were to NOT act as police or enforcement. I didn’t agree with either Bush or Obama sending guard troops anyway. Because they did, does not make it a good idea or ok. And Trump is obviously using it politically.

It’s all very stupid. I live in Az less than 70 miles from the border. We do not need the us military on the border even maybe shooting at anyone. Although the troops living at DMAFB (in tents, I read) and hanging out because they don’t actually have anything to do, with the caravan nowhere close, is apparently a boost for the local economy.

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@CS in AZ This is a large group. It is going to need housing, food, and medical care. Do you think a few more processing clerks can handle this?

Hopefully, Trump's current actions will discourage the majority, the group will peter out, and the issue will become moot.

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dfarrah

@CS in AZ "That was a clear threat to have our military shooting people at the border."

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dfarrah

@Big Al about processing them, determining the genuine asylum seekers, and turning the others back? That is supposed to be the correct process, is it not?

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dfarrah

Big Al's picture

@dfarrah but we don't have to and should not use the military. I don't care whether it's Obama, Clinton, Bush or Trump, I'm against that and I'd say so are most people in this country. We don't need more militarization and police state apparatus, we need less.

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gulfgal98's picture

@Big Al

We don't need more militarization and police state apparatus, we need less.

Going back to my post above, regarding the Appalachian Trail which is about 2200 miles and veteran hikers usually need at least four months to complete it. This caravan began in Honduras on October 13 and somehow they have made nearly 1400 miles in less than one month?

These people are being transported to our border by someone who is counting upon the public to rise up in sympathy for these immigrants just in time for the mid term elections. I think the people migrating here are being played and we in the US are being played by powers who do not care about the immigrants at all and certainly do not care about 7,000 people suddenly showing up on our border.

I am very sympathetic to people whose lives have been turned upside down by our imperialism, but what is happening with this caravan does not pass the smell test for me. And I know that posting as such will not endear me to most people here either.

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Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?

“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy

@gulfgal98 @gulfgal98 it has to be military.

But where else can we get a large contingent of people quickly with logistics and security expertise ready to build infrastructure and communications to process the applicants?

I would rather our military do it than a contractor that botches everything up.

And certainly ICE and border patrol cannot do it; they can't even handle the volumes already.

I agree with you - it does not pass the smell test. I see a bunch of military age young men, marching behind their national flag.....loaded up with plenty of provisions and supplies along the way, mostly unwilling to use their country's, Mexico's, or US resources in Mexico to apply for asylum along the way.

There may very well be a good reason for the military to be handling this. I hope the US and Mexico are searching for weapons caches.

Maybe I am being paranoid.

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dfarrah

ggersh's picture

@gulfgal98 who are paying for these people
to march, either way we are being played.

it just appears to be a political ploy whichever
way one looks at it.

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I never knew that the term "Never Again" only pertained to
those born Jewish

"Antisemite used to be someone who didn't like Jews
now it's someone who Jews don't like"

Heard from Margaret Kimberley

@ggersh it does seem a political ploy.

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dfarrah

CS in AZ's picture

@gulfgal98

Who is benefiting from this, politically speaking? Looks like mostly it’s Trump and the republicans. The whole thing is getting the anti-foreigners and racists all in a lather, terrified of the “invasion” — and all hot for big daddy trump, who they love for sending in the big guns to protect us!

There is no big wave of sympathy for the caravan, that I’ve seen, and I don’t see this turning out the vote for democrats. If it has any political motive behind it, look at who is getting the most mileage from the coverage.

Republicans Whip Up Pre-Midterm Fears With Lies About Invading Migrant Caravan: Reason Roundup

To hear Trump and company tell it, the caravan is basically all MS-13 gang members, brown men seeking to rape white women, and the occasional member of ISIS who came all the way over from the Middle East to get in on this caravan thing.

"It doesn't matter if it's 100 percent accurate," a Trump official told The Daily Beast. "This is the play."

I personally have no idea if it’s a legitimate group seeking asylum or an organized stunt. The timing does point to stunt. The deployment of active duty military, the chest pounding, and the fear mongering all point to trump and republicans either setting it up, or at least making the most political hay they can out of a convenient event.

I for sure am not seeing any swell of support for the caravan. Granted I don’t watch mainstream news so I might be missing it, but personally I’m seeing many trumpians very excited about this whole “play” as team trump called it.

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@CS in AZ bemoaning the poor caravaners, just wanting to find a better job and a better life. I just tried to find out the demographics of the group, and the articles I glanced through were entirely sympathetic to the migrants.

I think lefties funded the effort to try to make Trump look bad, but now it seems to be backfiring.

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dfarrah

divineorder's picture

@dfarrah

Like Mr. Trump does all by himself.

See Twitter.com.

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A truth of the nuclear age/climate change: we can no longer have endless war and survive on this planet. Oh sh*t.

@divineorder pretty good.

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dfarrah

hecate's picture

@gulfgal98
what I read in the Daily Q Treehouse, George Soros is deploying the boxcars he first used to deliver Jews to the gas chambers, and then to smuggle all the pounds out of England, to run alongside the caravan, supplying the wild crazed smallpox-dripping fiends of MS-13 therein with gourmet food, limitless supplies of the hardest narcotics, and weapons up to and including nuclear bombs in suitcases, all paid for by libeling metooers and Black Lives Matter vermin working on the Beto O'Rourke campaign.

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@hecate
is that meant to be funny. Or insulting.

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hecate's picture

@JtC
is batshit that George Soros and Beto O'Rourke witched up a crowd of hungry Hondurans. Funny is making light of that.

My view, anyway. I understand that tastes can vary.

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@hecate
and you're welcome to it.

Do you feel that those that may not agree with your opinion are "batshit" and therefor open to ridicule.

Simple question, I'm curious as to how you might feel about that.

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hecate's picture

@JtC
who believe in batshit are not necessarily batshit.

Anyone is open to ridicule. Myself included. But I will endeavor to not again attract your attention.

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@hecate
for indulging my curiosity.

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@hecate other uprisings in the world. He deliberately tanked the British pound.

This is a guy who has no qualms about doing anything he wants to do

Whether or not he is behind the migrants is up for question, but he definitely has the means and the motive to start or support something like this.

Furthermore, some diseases are coming back that were once considered mostly eradicated, such as TB and polio, so it wouldn't hurt to have the migrants tested such diseases. South America has a much higher rate of TB than the US.

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dfarrah

mimi's picture

@dfarrah @dfarrah
Germany had an influx of refugees or migrants and nothing is more difficult, time consuming, expensive than to figure out if a migrant or refugee is a true asylum seeker or not. I wouldn't count on the business man like your President, he would waste money on those things.

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@mimi to have everything ready and in place when they arrive.

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dfarrah

divineorder's picture

@dfarrah and hey, it just does not work on us any more.

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A truth of the nuclear age/climate change: we can no longer have endless war and survive on this planet. Oh sh*t.

@divineorder College students being killed on campus are entirely different from border patrol.

And I love that CSNY song.

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dfarrah

mimi's picture

trying to scare me and the way you interpret my comment. I feel offended by your attempts.
I did not encourage mutiny. I quoted General Pace as to what it means to act lawfully as a soldier when he witnesses abuse of innocent and unarmed civilians by other soldiers.
There are ways to resist even for soldiers for moral reasons.

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@mimi any abuse of the migrants by the military?

I'm not trying to scare anyone. There are severe consequences for insubordination in the military.

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dfarrah

mimi's picture

@dfarrah
the President is smart mean enough to incite other people to do it for him by the way he talks.

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@mimi needs to die, the sooner the better. It is as if lefties think every word Trump says is "inciting," including "and" and "the."

It's the lefties who are running around inciting people to bully republicans. But I think we already talked about this.

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dfarrah

mimi's picture

@dfarrah
I am going to sleep now and end this conversation.

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divineorder's picture

@dfarrah they are bullying Republicans? I got whiplash with that.

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A truth of the nuclear age/climate change: we can no longer have endless war and survive on this planet. Oh sh*t.

@divineorder watch some of the videos of the repubs being harassed and bullied by the liberals? They do exist, and there are quite a few of them.

When I watched them, I was embarrassed to be a liberal.

Mimi already admitted not seeing them; how many other people here are going to stick their heads in the sand and pretend none of the harassment took place? Geez, it was in Seattle, I believe, where protesters blocked off streets and chased an older white guy in his car down the street after he slowly drove through some sort of blockade. Someone actually hit his car with a stick or something. It was ridiculous.

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dfarrah

mimi's picture

@dfarrah
military abusing migrants doesn't mean it could have happened or can happen. When you ask me if I have seen something I assume you don't mean see like in seeing it in a video on twitter or on the internets, but thar if I have witnessed absue, in the way General Pace explained it to Rumsfeld. What's your point?

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smiley7's picture

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