Monday Morning Open Thread

Hey, good Morning. This Monday Morning Open Thread is due to be published by 6:00 am Pacitic Time. Johnny says it must be up by 5:00 am Pacific time to meet that deadline (the server must be running Windows). Hence, it is being drafted and queued Sunday evening and I will show up as soon as I get up and get going. (As a retiree, I have a lot of flexibility in that regard.)

I was originally thinking of a couple of Haiku, a couple of tunes, some enviro news and off we go. After all, it is my first Open Thread. After yesterday's, however, I've decided to make it more of a ramble. You see, I am the modern liberal's villain, the "pragmatist"'s nemesis. I am of That Left. A sixties radical, I was arrested and tossed out of UC Berkeley for delivering some non-negotiable demands to and refusing to leave the offices of campus officialdom. Did I mention Non-Negotiable demands? Yeah, that was us. The "New Left". Fucking radicals. Still are it seems.

Anyway, I think I've got some stuff to share that's worthy of at least a little thought (I think) . It's way too much to organize and present methodically and coherently in an Open Thread, so I'm gonna hop around, lightly touch on a few topics and perhaps expand some other time.

First off - I'm not and we weren't uncompromising. Not against compromise per se at all. However, it is a misquote that "politics is the art of compromise". The correct version is "Politics is the art of the possible" (Otto von Bismark, BTW). If it is possible to obtain some goal without compromising, then it behooves one to do so. If you do have to compromise, don't give up what you came for, give up something else instead.

If you are going to negotiate with an entrenched power structure, smug, in charge, lawyered up and used to getting its way, you have to know what is critical so you don't give it up by accident. The easiest way to do that is to make sure at the outset that everybody knows what those things are. At quitting time, when all is said and done and we are ready to shake hands and put ink on paper, no matter what else is in that paper, those few things will be, end of discussion. Many things might be asked for on both sides, and discussed, but everybody knew that any agreement would have to contain those few items. Obama should try it sometime. The Dems too.

In our case it was the return of our leadership. The whole UC student movement had been crippled by a bunch of suspensions of our most senior, most experienced, most active leadership. A few of us who were a bit less senior, experienced and active looked around and wondered what to do, and it dawned upon us that it was on us. So, we figured out our wish-list and which were our non-negotiable demands, typed up the latter, shook hands and headed up the Sproul Hall steps. If somebody needs to step up, and you don't see anybody doing it, then it's on you, so go do it.

Our arrests and suspensions led to the usual ruckus and in the fullness of time the university blinked and inked that paper, reinstating those suspended over politics and political activism, including ourselves, and promising to cease such suspensions for all time. (They sort of promised that after FSM, but interpreted it so as to permit the suspensions that drove our little movement.)

So, compromise is ok, but only on some things. Some things are non-negotiable and you have to know what they are and when their time has come. If you are trying to build a movement, consensus among participants as to what those things are is critical.

SDS operated by consensus. The broader movement coalition sought consensus, but there, the dissidents simply didn't show up for whatever actions they disagreed with. It included a lot of subgroups, each dedicated first and foremost to its own specific issue(s). This is called by some who decry it "identity politics" and "fragmentation". Nobody causes it, it happens, but it isn't problematic if properly and intelligently handled. There were many causes or issues and most folks had one or two primary concerns and a willingness to work with others to advance other causes and issues as well. Everybody realized that we needed progress on a broad front, that it all helps. I showed up for numerous groups actions and ad hoc events, and pretty much failed to show up only where explicitly told not to. (Some classic liberals didn't want our kind around,)

Many were and still are fighting for civil liberties - the protection, expansion, clarification and spread of those basic rights and liberties that everybody should enjoy. This is not to be confused with civil rights. The civil rights movement grew out of the black struggle in the south and expanded into a struggle for black equality throughout the land. Blacks were still getting the shaft in the rest of the country too, just n different ways. Part of that expansion was also a lot of parallel movements to work for equality for all other oppressed, suppressed and screwed over groups, hispanics, for example, and those we then called "handicapped". That was the New Left thing, put everybody and their particular interests into one big movement. There is, after all, no conflict between demanding wheel chair access to polling places and ending racial discrimination in hiring. Both are good things, so why not do them both?

The women's movement emerged and the women's movement had two sides or factions that I am not competent to address. I do know that a lot of the male left had (and still has) trouble adapting to women's equality, and I am still baffled by that. I helped out and showed up when asked, as did about 1/3 of my peers, but it wasn't up to us since it was their gig. The women involved, by and large, continued to work on all the other issues they were previously working on, but also did their own thing. When they saw fit, they invited participation. There was no conflict with anything else and no impediment to progress in other areas except that some egos got hurt.

The black power movement caused some consternation for some, but it was pretty simple. If they were ever to be able to go out and spread the movement to their neighborhoods and their people, they had to have all of that experience organizing and the whole organizational skill set needed to build and sustain a movement. That meant that they had to run their own actions and not simply be part of black equality actions dreamed up, organized, managed and run by white dudes. They began to run their own show, and, when they saw fit, invited such participation as they saw fit. Again, there was no conflict with anything else, though some egos got bruised.

The old left - the socialists and union organizers were still part of the process too. Like all the rest, they pushed their agenda and assisted others in pushing their own. A lot of peaceniks and anti-war types were also some kind of socialist anyway. Ditto feminists and Black Power advocates. The general idea was to work together on trying to bring about a better life and better world. One supported anybody pushing anything that wasn't antithetical to one or more of one's own core issues whenever one could.

Having their own primary goals didn't stop them from helping out in other areas. It was multitasking. If just about any group wanted some bodies at a rally, they put the word out and the socialists, feminists, peaceniks, black power advocates and operatives, civil libertarians, labor organizers and other groups would show up. It was really all about showing up. There were groups with specific causes, but few real factions.

You build a mass movement not by saying "hey, fuck your personal issues, we've got to work together full time on this issue, but by saying "Sure, I'll help get the word out for your gig and we can help with flyers too. Do you think you can maybe get some folks to come to a union picket downtown next Wednesday and/or an anti-war rally at city hall tommorow?" What it is all about is full equality for everybody, ASAP, and better distribution of wealth, ASAP, and we all need to have a meeting of the minds about that first and foremost. Then we need to look at all the ways we can work together to bring that about. That includes a vast panoply of issues and actions, some to do daily, by ourselves, some to do togetherin groups or en masse, and even electoral politics. It also admits of crises issues.

I was a civil libertarian, equal rights, peacenik/anti-draft, socialist, but when they suspended our leaders, that took momentary precedence. We weren't going to end the war or the draft or discrimination solely by our own actions within the next few months, so it was ok to divert time and resources to narrowly focus on stopping political suspensions. It was actually critical to do so, because routine use of that practice which could destroy the movement.

For today's blacks, for example, I think, Black Lives Matter is a crises issue. How can you canvass a neighborhood, work on voting rights or candidate support or an increased minimum wage or the right to unionize down at the local supercenter if you are subject to being shot on the thinnest of pretences. Some might multitask, and some might only work on that issue, but it is a crisis, and they're entitled to treat it as such. It doesn't really hurt most of the other movements going on to have some folks saying "In addition to $15 an hour, how about you make these shit heads stop shooting us and busting us for nothing. In fact, how about we prioritize that."

Remember - nobody gets out of here alive, so let's all try to do the right thing by everybody else. From each according to their ability and all that.

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janis b's picture

Common ground would also fit in your list of tags.

[video:http://youtu.be/Nv2GgV34qIg]

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enhydra lutris's picture

The cats insist on going out at dawn, but I'm still two coffees short of being awake.

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That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

janis b's picture

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enhydra lutris's picture

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That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

MarilynW's picture

and your part in the 1960's. We were so much older then, we are much younger than that now.

I spent yesterday with my family, breakfast out and a climb up one of the city's high points. Just after I bragged about my little dog's ability to ramble up the rocks, we couldn't find him. He never gets lost and is a great bushwhacker. We were all at the parking lot waiting for him when he hobbled out of the brush. He had injured his front paw and he wasn't himself at all. At home I cut some burrs and thorns out of the fur on his bad leg and let him rest. By late last night when I said "Walk?" he jumped up on all fours and showed he was better. That's life, just when you think you got it covered, you don't.

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To thine own self be true.

gulfgal98's picture

I gotta say this. You sea otters are pretty smart fellows. Wink

While you were an activist in the 60's, I was just another freak bum. Then, I got my act together and I am becoming much smarter as I grow older thanks to folks like you and other writers and commenters here.

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Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?

“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy

enhydra lutris's picture

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That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

Unabashed Liberal's picture

el, you've made some excellent points in your essay. After I walk 'the B' and address the Kaufman piece, I hope to expound on a couple of them.

The beginning of the end of the Dem Party was when the DLC/Third Way/New Dem/New Left movement began to dismantle and disempower the Dem Party 'special interest' groups. All at the behest of Big Business and the One Percent.

Of course, they didn't totally take these 'special interests' down--they just bought off the leadership of all of them, and used the rank-and-file members as campaign foot soldiers every couple of years.

And they also pitted them against one another from time to time, when it served their interests. But, that's all water under the bridge, I suppose.

I've got to 'clip' from a video of an Al From interview (C-Span) addressing the "progressive" movement--a term he/the DLC coined. I hope to have a number of 'clips' to crosspost here when the Primary Debates begin.

Later . . .

Mollie


"Every time I lose a dog, he takes a piece of my heart. Every new dog gifts me with a piece of his. Someday, my heart will be total dog, and maybe then I will be just as generous, loving, and forgiving."--Author Unknown
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Everyone thinks they have the best dog, and none of them are wrong.

enhydra lutris's picture

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That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

mimi's picture

that

One supported anybody pushing anything that wasn't antithetical to one or more of one's own core issues whenever one could.

That's something I could live by. Thanks again. Great OT. It's all about showing up. That's why I am going now, because I want to show up somewhere... Smile
Have a good day, all.

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What in the Hell does this mean?

An estimated 160 American soldiers have landed at Iraq's Habbaniyah air base, east of Ramadi in western Iraq Sunday as part of US-led coalition efforts to recapture the city of Ramadi from Islamic State militants, according to Arab media.
According to an Iraqi military official quoted by Al-Arabi Al-Jadeed news site, "the new forces’ mission does not appear to be training the Iraqi army or the tribes fighting with me. We expect that they will provide direct support in the upcoming battle to retake Ramadi."

Are we seriously invading Iraq again?

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gulfgal98's picture

we never left, nor will we ever leave. Sad

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Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?

“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy

So far there is only one source for it. But if this is true then this is "boots on the ground" in Iraq, and Congress has still not voted on a AUMF.
This has a very Vietnam-ish feeling.

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gulfgal98's picture

to surpass Viet Nam and become the second longest US war after Afghanistan.

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Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?

“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy

shaharazade's picture

some kind of open ended AUFM that declared the whole wide world a battle ground in the war on terra? They don't seem to need a declaration of war, as they have redefined what a war is. There are boots on the ground anywhere globally that threatens 'our' interests.

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and that would be a big thing if a Republican president did it.
But since a Democrat has started an illegal war, few people will care.

I posted this on the GOS. Just wait for the defend-Obama-at-all-costs crowd to come out.

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So no push-back from the defend-Obama-at-all-costs crowd, but also almost no one seems to care.
If I put "Kim Davis" in the subject line it would be on the rec list. But "invading Iraq"? Killing lots of people? Big deal, amirite?

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gulfgal98's picture

Outrage porn is so much more 21st century. *snark*

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Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?

“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy

enhydra lutris's picture

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That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

enhydra lutris's picture

If they have no defined mission, then it isn't war, right?

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That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

MarilynW's picture

It's hard to think of an invasion of a small country by a superpower as a War.

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To thine own self be true.

triv33's picture

A good read--H/T poligirl
Why Does the Radical Left Feel Threatened by the Bernie Sanders Campaign?

As a tactical matter, then, the Sanders upsurge is an invaluable tool for the mass dissemination of left themes and solutions right now—a priceless benefit that far outweighs the realpolitik lapses that preoccupy the left-echo-chamber Sanders refuseniks. Now notice that I just used the word tactical. Allow me to explain. Whatever the rough spots in Sanders’s progressive resume, especially on foreign policy, it remains a stubborn tactical reality (and perhaps I will also be forgiven for using the word reality) that it is only through the vehicle of his presidential campaign as a Democrat that these kinds of progressive issues and solutions can flood the airwaves and touch the tens of millions of desperate but ill-informed Americans who most need to think and hear about them—in most cases, for the first time. This is the unique and irreplaceable value of the Sanders candidacy: it is strewing seeds of mass consciousness around issues of class and inequality and the environment in a way that no other person or party could accomplish right now. Radicals need to ask themselves: How is that a bad thing?

Whatever the outcome of Sanders’s campaign, the sheer scope of the audience for his progressive checklist, his slashing denunciations of the economic and political tyranny of the billionaire class, are green shoots in an otherwise barren political landscape—and who knows how they might flourish in the future? This is a major breakthrough that has the potential, in countless molecular ways, to burst through the Democratic institutional framework in which it is now embedded—and, by the way, Sanders would not be commanding that mass audience were it not in that framework: hence the Sanders Paradox. To be sure, it’s an inconvenient paradox for inveterate anti-Democrats of the left, but one to be acknowledged and exploited rather than condemned or ignored. The near-zero collective political IQ of the country urgently needs raising by any means possible and necessary, and sooner rather than later, given the catastrophes that are bearing down on us. We can’t afford to disdain any advances right now, no matter how messy or divergent from our ideal scenarios.

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I shave my legs with Occam's Razor~

gulfgal98's picture

This has been my point all along when I have argued with some folks over tactics in the past.

Sanders represents a chance to make our voices heard on the national stage. It is not about choosing the lesser of two evils. Instead, it gives us the potential to start shifting the Overton Window back. While he is flawed in some ways, he is by far the most left candidate we have seen in decades and it would be wasteful not to use the opportunity presented by his campaign to change people and begin making our government work for us, not the oligarchs and the corporations. I would add one more plus, his campaign is engaging the younger voters and that is something that we all should be pleased about.

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Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?

“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy

triv33's picture

Sanders is just not left enough for them. I get that, really I do, but what I don't get is why they can't see that he's reaching people who have been brainwashed for years. Come on, that's got to count for something. I've never believed one President or candidate can save us from squadoosh, but if Sanders can bring anybody out of that tea-bagger trance, reach anybody who's been disenfranchised, that counts for something with me. He is waking people up.

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I shave my legs with Occam's Razor~

JayRaye's picture

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Never be deceived that the rich will allow you to vote away their wealth.-Lucy Parsons

burnt out's picture

him talking openly and honestly about many of the same issues we've all been discussing among ourselves for years but reaching few outside of our own little circles. The important difference being he has a microphone, a stage, and and a diverse and growing audience. And as much as they'd like to, they can't bust in the door and shut him down. It's got to be a good thing, no matter what the outcome.

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All I want is the truth. Just give me some truth. John Lennon

enhydra lutris's picture

that everything not antithetical to the goal helps. It's akin to a roving nation wide teach-in. Now if he could just get everybody to read Zinn while they're at it ...

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That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

shaharazade's picture

the authors insulting and defining anyone who had questions or reservations about Bernie's 'foreign policy' or any of his policy stances and solutions for that matter as a purist far leftie. I'm also put off when any political writer lumps all Americans who are not political junkies, partisans or particularly involved as idiots who watch Nasscar, Fox or CNN, shop at Wal Mart and are clueless about the reality they live in. Talk about elitism. Many people are apolitical not out of apathy or ignorance but because as a friend, not a far lefty purist or an ignorant dunce, once told me not voting is my vote. She did resister for the first time she went all out supported and voted for Obama. Once bitten twice shy?

There has always been and always will be a pig ignorant, fearful, hateful upside down 30% of the population who really are anti-democratic, pig ignorant and conservative. They will never vote Democratic they are Republican loyalist's. Most of the points about Bernie he sited do not come from lefties they are the talking points of the New Democrat's the neoliberal authoritarian die hard partisan's.

I voted for Jill Stein in 2012. I was appalled that she got less then 5% of the vote. So while I will re-register as a Democrat and vote for Bernie I will not vote for the candidate the inevitable owners of the place select. I have no interest in keeping this sick duopoly one party state alive and fear of the right just doesn't move me no more. Despite this authors obnoxious slamming of 'the far left' and labeling anyone who doesn't support Bernie as some kind purist spoiler I do agree that his campaign so far is empowering and waking people up. So did Obama's and yet..... I'm not a purity troll so why is this guy painting my skepticism and concern about Bernie's positions with the same brush that Armando, Turkana or any gung ho partisan loyalist does?

The endless bloody war on terra is not disconnected from our 1% oligarchy's economic injustice or our out of control police/security state. There's a lot I don't like about Bernie's stances and solutions. I do agree that it is up to 'we the people' to effect any change and that a political revolution is needed. I have never been a member of the People's Judean Front nor am I a Marxist or any kind of theoretical 'ist' other then a humanist. I was up until they stopped being democratic a life long Democrat from the democratic wing of the party.

I think instead of attacking the 'purist's' Bernie's supports should address the legitimate, reasonable questions some of us have about what he's purposing. As I said once bitten twice shy. Beside his neocon foreign policy views (including the concept of smart drones that will not kill innocents) I don't think his solutions about out the out control killer cops is going to do a damn thing. We need the rule of law and our system of checks and balance of power reinstated. Supporting the MIC and the lawless endless war for 'security' seems to contradict much of what he advocates for both economically along with restoring our long gone human and civil rights.

Bernie's right about breaking up the banks and the powerful interests who own and run our country and I'm glad he's running against the oligarchs . I hope he beats Hillary and that I can vote for him in the general. I will vote for him so why berate the people who dare to question what he advocates and is purposing. I agree with this author about the gravity of what were facing and that no one man or 'leader' can reverse it but lecturing and mocking the so called far lefty purists seems a strange way to get liberals or anyone to feel the Bern.

If he does lose are the pragmatist 'moderate' Dems going to blame the left? What left is even left? Maybe we should stop with the blaming and lecturing and realize that not just the 'left' but all of us who see what is happening need to build coalitions and that for people to take it back from these fuckers we don't need to polarize and divide people into meaningless categories like far left or purist just because they find are rightly dubious about any pol's positions.

'I'm taking back my country and the vehicle I'm using is the Democratic party' Howard Dean (circa 2004)

Where's my habeas corpus?

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triv33's picture

I am highly ambivalent on this shit. I know I'll vote Bernie in the primary, I'm registered Dem, can't do "I" in PA. But no, I can't say Oh, gee I guess I hafta back the party if he doesn't make it, and yes, I'll get blamed, blamed, motherfucking blamed for not wanting to go any further right. Just like I'm seeing shit right now from my lefter friends for even considering Bernie over Jill. So I sit here thinking WTF? No, really...WTF? Is there a chance of getting anything? Domestically? Anything? Because we desperately need shit. How fucking pathetic is that? Yet here I am. All I know is we're not making it. We are not gonna survive if shit continues as it has been. What to do?

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I shave my legs with Occam's Razor~

enhydra lutris's picture

registered Peace and Freedom; 1) To get them on the ballot and 2) To say to anybody who would listen that Dick Gregory was hands down the best candidate in terms of policies and positions. The whole "blame it on the purists" meme is factually false, but that's another issue, as is treating questioning as "attacking" or "denouncing." If Bernie loses it will be the conservadems and pragmatists at fault, not the left.

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That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

joe shikspack's picture

there are some good points there that have been running through my mind for some time, like where do people think that mass movements come from? can the left that is currently panning sanders create their own mass movement?

not surprisingly, (i presume a representative of the far-left) has a response piece up at counterpunch which is hosting something of a running debate: Sanders and Lesser-Evilism: Is There No Line You Will Not Cross?

the response piece makes some good points, too, especially regarding the appropriateness of the democratic party as a vehicle for radical change. the thing that at bottom of it the response piece doesn't come to grips with is that the democratic party does not represent the interests of its base and they are swarming to a moderately left platform. this base is what is needed for any anti-war/anti-imperialist agenda to be successful. in fact, before obama, this base was a key part of the antiwar movement (now demobilized). tactically speaking, what the left needs to do is either win these people over to a third party by providing a more compelling agenda and candidate, or, it needs to round up enough support to push sanders further left while effectively neutering the democratic party institution and the donor class.

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mimi's picture

he is not willing to cross this specific line and says that Sanders has crossed that line, at least so far:
"If you are fighting against the oppression of people, you have to fight for all people that are oppressed and can't just throw one group of oppressed people under the bus and just fight for those oppressed people, who are your main core issue to fight for."
So, the Palestinian people are oppressed and not to fight for their liberation and human rights, is just something that Sanders has not committed to yet. That's where the division comes in. I believe.

Have to go. Read all of it later.

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mimi's picture

Building the BDS Movement for Justice in Palestine

Chris Hedges spoke a long time and what I got out of his speech gave me some more understanding why he is not supporting Sanders' campaign, though they both have identical political goals and intentions.

I also heard Sanders tonight in Manassas VA and it was very good to see these contrasting events.

I get away from both of the events, recognizing the reality that the every day American would not understand, why one should not support Sanders for the reasons Hedges gives. I think the criticism that Sanders is not "a real" Socialist, because he runs with the neo-liberal Democrats' party structure, will not stand against the overwhelming evidence that every item Sanders skillfully presents in his stump speeches are the same as Hedges, just that Hedges wants to build the movement on grass root level independent from the Democratic Party, whereas Sanders accepted to campaign using their party structure. The people don't care about that. They want to build the movement no matter how.

I don't see how one possibly would not help with the primary campaign of Sanders. It would not be responsible. The same movement building (Boycott, Divest and Sanctions) Hedges proposes in the fight for the Justice in Palestine, one can apply to other internal US issues and that would be same kind of grass root movement building that Sanders (which he calls a political revolution) would like to see.

So, I think one can be very much in agreement with Hedges AND support a Sanders campaign at the same time. The reaction I have seen in the crowds in VA Mannassas tells me that those who are aware of Sanders support him no matter what, especially the younger students, immigrants and women. Sanders had put his former statement that the US is the biggest military power in the world and that that is good (made at ABC I think) in context with a clear statement that it never should be used in a war in the ME. He wasn't too specific, but clearly anti-war, so much so, that I think he leaded the audience towards an anti-war standing and not the audience him.

Having seen both events helped me a lot. I think both men have great integrity, Hedges calling Sanders not a real Socialist is understandable, because he refuses to accept to work with neo-liberal Democrats, but that isn't cutting through to the general audience of Sanders events. Women and students and immigrants have shown great support for Sanders' lines of his stump speech. I don't think even you could stop them from supporting him. At the same time listening to Hedges convinced me that Sanders might get really crushed and beaten by what Hedges calls the neo-liberal project. Sanders will get so much push back that you can get scared over it. I am sure they pull every dirty trick and extortions in the tool box of the neo-cons and neo-liberals. I talked to an Iranian in the audience who said that the AIPAC and the NRA will just clobber him to a pile of broken bones.

I wished Sanders would listen to Hedges and take into account what he said about the oppression of Palestinian. Hedges addresses this very good in the end of the Q & A session. Unfortunately here is no transcript. Hopefully there will be one later.

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Shahryar's picture

some of the "objections" to Bernie could have been written by those ex-republican centrists running around at you know where. "cannot win the election"? That's not a realistic reason to not support Bernie. It's an argument used by those who say Hillary is our strongest candidate therefore blah blah blah. "can't get proposals through Congress"...has nothing to do with Bernie. If a supposed "far lefty" said that then what of Jill Stein or anyone else? It's a non-argument from the left but one that Hillbots use.

Then there's the smug overtones in that article that bug me, full of insults.

I'm not sure what the purpose of the article is since it surely won't have any affect on the people (if they exist) who are being criticized. Who, then, is it aimed at?

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joe shikspack's picture

kaufman's article (unless i'm missing something here) is one of a series of ongoing commentaries about the sanders campaign that seem to be a discussion that the "far-left" is having amongst themselves. a lot of these pieces have been published on the counterpunch website. i'm not wild about the tone of it, but to be fair, some of the commentary i've seen from the "other side" of this discussion is at least equally snarky. when i read stuff like this, i tend to ignore the tone and read for the salient debate points.

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triv33's picture

to turn the points back on myself, consider where I stand and why. And yeah, ignoring the tone for the most part.

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I shave my legs with Occam's Razor~

Shahryar's picture

I'm going to change my registration back to D so I can vote in the primary. I think it's important to send a message, even if I would prefer Jill Stein in the general.

I believe if Bernie gets close to winning he'll be "stopped". But even that would be useful in showing how corrupt this system is.

I received an email this morning, probably you did, too, from "Bernie" (the campaign at least), naming which banks should be broken up. Citigroup, Goldman Sachs, JP Morgan Chase and others. "They" won't let that happen but if it's obvious what they're doing then that can only help. I think, maybe.

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triv33's picture

very little, voting. If he were able to do even a fraction of what he says he intends to do, no, no way he ever gets near it, that thought goes over and over in my head about Bernie. Then there's that incrementalism/lesser evilism thing I like to kid myself I have the luxury of pondering. But I really don't. How pretty are you sitting? I'm sitting in a pretty unsightly spot if you look at in in the right light. So if there's any chance at all...what am I gonna do? I'm going to be the cock-eyed pessimist I always have been, and think everything's going to hell, vote my conscience and hope like hell it doesn't. Even though I'm pretty sure it still will. Life today is fucking crazy-making.

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I shave my legs with Occam's Razor~

Unabashed Liberal's picture

the operative word, though, regarding how some on 'the Left' feel about Senator Sanders. From my observation--blogging at ZCommunications, reading Hedges, etc.--I think that it's the consensus among some of them that Sanders' candidacy will eventually be co-opted/blocked by the Establishment Dems.

After all, look what they did to the fiscally conservative/socially centrist former Governor of Vermont.

(Full Disclosure: I was a member of two chapters of DFA--IOW, totally in the tank for Dean's presidency.)

That is one reason that some on 'the Left' are convinced that we need to work from the outside, and not look to any politician who is part of the status quo.

And, I believe that they--the 'Left'-- understand the argument from the Democratic Party Base that Bernie's candidacy will bring in new voters (youth, etc.).

But to what end? (they would ask)

That aspect of his candidacy is more appealing to partisans (as in Democrats), not so much to folks who believe that the two-party system is hopelessly corrupt, or to many "Independent" voters, of which I am one.

(In case anyone is wondering, "Why the heck is she at DKos if she's an Independent," it's because I joined there quite a while back, right after the 2004 Dean candidacy debacle. I was furious, and hoped to join forces with folks who would fight Establishment Dems. Sadly, I did not know that DKos was a centrist/conservative Democratic Party Blog, at that time.)

Frankly, I don't think that 'the Left' objects to Bernie raising various issues like income inequality. So I'm not sure where the author gets that. And most of the posts that I've read, acknowledge that Sanders likely gets more press attention running as a Democrat, than he would as an Independent candidate.

One more thing, I'd heard of Kaufman, but I didn't know much about him. So I "Goggled."

It's pretty clear that he is skeptical of, or disdains, third party/Green Party politics from a couple of his previous articles over the years. (Links below.)

IOW, it appears that, like pretty much everybody, Kaufman comes to his conclusions [regarding the Left] with some degree of bias baked in. Which is not to say that this automatically discounts everything that he says. Admittedly, everyone has some bias.

But I think that a little context is important when reviewing his, or others, writings.

William Kaufman, LinkedIn

Ralph Nader, Rocky Anderson, and the Green Party: A Political Un-Love Story
by William Kaufman / April 23rd, 2012

Pwog Fantasies of Power
Posted By William Kaufman On April 25, 2013 @ 12:11 am

~ ~ ~ ~ ~

To a point that Nancy made about 'tactics.'

From all that I read, that's not the primary objection of many on 'the Left.' It's really about 'policies.'

Certainly, for me, policy is a much more pressing matter [than tactics].

Yes, I would much rather have seen Senator Sanders run outside of the Dem Party (as an Independent candidate), but when all is said and done, I have more concerns with some [not all] of his policy proposals.

Closer to the Primary Debates, if I have time with all that's on my plate as a result of the additional family business responsibilities that I now bear, I 'hope' to post a bit about several of the proposals that he's brought up on the campaign trail.

Folks may be surprised to find out that several are the same as FSC, and all of the corporatist Dems. Others, which I'm glad that he's proposing, are not nearly as comprehensive/expansive as they sound at first blush.

One example, as I tried to explain to one women at DKos [whose birth date is listed as 1946 in her profile] who is running around all over the blog exclaiming how wonderful it is that 'everyone' will receive a $65 per month Social Security benefit increase--this increase won't apply to her. No where near it.

Because the proposed legislation neglected to state whether the increase would include future Social Security beneficiaries who file for ERA (Early Age Retirement) benefits, or only for those future beneficiaries who file for FRA (Full Age Retirement) benefits, it is impossible to know whether the monthly increase would apply to none of the 18-year Boomer cohort, or, only to those Boomers born within the last 4-5 years of the Boomer cohort. (1946-1964) But it is one, or the other.

I plan to post parts of the legislation and links to it during the Primary Debate. It is a sound starting point, but it needs to be expanded, IMHO.

Clearly, it will not apply to those generations who are older than the Baby Boomer cohort.

Now, if it was ever passed, it would be a wonderful boon to Gen X'ers and younger. (Hope I didn't leave out a generation.) And that's cool.

But, it concerns me that in many of the discussions at progressive or Democratic Party blogs, there are no details given. Therefore, some of the campaign speeches, and Party info generally, can be quite misleading.

Anyhoo, I hope that folks here continue to post articles like this one, throughout the rest of the election cycle.

So much is being made of the campaign 'horse race,' and Dem Party infighting aspects (in the MSM), that it is difficult to even find good or thorough pieces about the candidates' policy proposals. But I'll keep looking!

For the record, I haven't [yet] dropped out of the voting process. And, I'm hoping that some of my concerns can be laid to rest as a result of the upcoming Dem Primary debates. I can't imagine a worse outcome than for FSC to become the Dem Party standard bearer for 2016. Not to mention that, IMO, her nomination would most likely ensure that a Republican would become president.

BTW, I'm not trying to pick on Triv. I've tried to address several commenters' concerns in the one comment, but since she posted the piece, replied to her comment.

Pleasantry

Mollie


"Every time I lose a dog, he takes a piece of my heart. Every new dog gifts me with a piece of his. Someday, my heart will be total dog, and maybe then I will be just as generous, loving, and forgiving."--Author Unknown
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Everyone thinks they have the best dog, and none of them are wrong.

Even to Europe

Violence between ethnic Kurds and Turks in Europe spilled into the weekend, with a reported attack on a Kurd in the German city of Hanover whose throat was cut and a five people hurt when a car deliberately drove into groups of Kurdish protesters in the Swiss city of Bern...
In Hanover, a group of far-right Turks reportedly cut the throat of a young Kurd, two hours after a demonstration had officially ended.

This is alarming

Jaafari told Reuters that Ankara has not coordinated with Iraq in the campaign, which Baghdad claims included an incursion into Iraq last week by Turkish special forces in pursuit of PKK militants.
“We are for the security of Turkey. Turkey has the right to defend itself,” he said ahead of an Arab League conference in Cairo. “But there must be coordination on the ground with the Iraqi government and Iraqi armed forces.”

Is Baghdad turning against the Iraqi Kurds? And of course, Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan is escalating

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gulfgal98's picture

Oh yeah, PNAC. The blood is totally on US hands and has been for a long time. As another human being, it makes me sick and disgusted at the way we get in there, destabilize the entire area and then somehow "wash our hands" of the mess we created. And by we, I mean the US government.

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Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?

“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy

enhydra lutris's picture

The Kurds are an easy target and scapegoat. He will try to parlay his war on the Kurds into into an emergency dictatorship, and we will be happy to let him. Baghdad, meanwhile has no love for the Kurds, and no ability to stand up for itself or control its own territory and our sole interest in Iraq is to keep it out of Iran's orbit. We don't give a shit about the Kurds, we never have. The hate crimes against Kurdish people elsewhere in Europe show that Erdogan's domestic ploy has legs. Not remotely good news.

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That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

every argument used to keep us voting for the neoliberals is now applicable to voting for Bernie. The big difference is that finally there is a candidate that gives the argument validity. The fact that the far left won't support Bernie does piss me off. I'm sorry I don't have "a pony" for them, but jeez, at least it isn't Hillary. Yep, I blame the left for the mess we're in. They've done nothing but sulk and take their bat and ball home. They remind me of BLM. Obstinate enough to cut off their noses to spite their faces, which can be a valid tactic - sometimes.

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"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon

triv33's picture

Been labeled a purist, an emo-prog, all manner of bullshit, I don't care. I can't quite see the point in taking part in a lefter than thou contest, where the hell does that get us? I vote for as left as I can get and then push left some more. It's all I can do that might get us some actual progress.

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I shave my legs with Occam's Razor~

enhydra lutris's picture

Certainly not in a material way, though we've always had those who prefer to go their own way or to support third parties in order to try to get the word out.

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That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

hecate's picture

thoughtful piece. Thank you.

—Travel advisory: if you are a Mexican tour group, and you travel through Egypt, you may be massacred, mistaken for "terrorists."

—Meanwhile, if you are a Mexican student, there in Mexico, you may be "disappeared," and the official government explanation for your disappearance will be quickly exposed as utter balderdash, and so a new Study will commence . . . as still you are disappeared.

—This weekend somebody put up on dKos a brief little piece that offended there the church ladies. I am reprinting it here because I believe that it artfully and elegantly exposes everything essential about Donald Trump. It even expertly mimics his speech patterns:

"My penis is huge, Huge let me tell you. Women love it and I suppose some men do as well. It's great and the most fantastic penis you can imagine. When I use Viagra, which I don't, but when I do, I make Pfizer pay for it. Look at Jeb, what a limp dick and Carly Fiorina, she doesn’t even have one. Talk about a face that limped a thousand dicks.

"When I become President I will have Carl Icon negotiate with China, Korea and Japan. He has a big dick, not as big as mine, but pretty big, just look at what he did to TWA. That company never recovered once he got through with it. Imagine what he will do to China.

"I love my penis, you will too, everyone knows it is the biggest, the best, you will be amazed at how great it is, did I mention it is Huge?”

—Supreme Court Justice Stephen Breyer has written a book in which he asserts that not only should people in the United States pay attention to what goes on in the rest of the world, but that US jurists like himself should review the laws of other nations when considering the laws of this one. While this might seem like common sense, it is actually too often a minority view at present in the US: Supreme Court Justice Fred Flintstone (a.k.a. Antonin Scalia), for instance, thundered in a 2005 opinion that "the basic premise of the court's argument—that American law should conform to the laws of the rest of the world—ought to be rejected out of hand." Yeehaw.

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burnt out's picture

wouldn't make it very often.

Thanks for the Canned Heat El. A couple of us drove from Missouri to Indiana in an old beater pickup back in 1972 to see them in an outdoor concert but they didn't show up, can't remember why now. Unfortunately the whole thing got pretty ugly. It was hot and muggy, no shade except for the tents and tarps that people brought with them, and the worst of it was a lot of people didn't bring enough food or water and were running out by the second day. So people were hot, hungry, and thirsty, on top of already being pissed off because of the head-liners being a no show, so it turned sour pretty quick and we decided to get out the hell out of Dodge before it got worse, which I heard later that it did. Oh yeah, and we had to walk in about a half mile from from where we parked our truck and when we got back to it we found that someone had tore the wooden stock racks off my pick-up and used them for firewood........

We did some birding this morning, hoping to catch some migrant warblers but they weren't very cooperative. We had quite a few around last week but a cold front has pushed most of them on south already. Waiting for the next wave now. We did luck into a pair of Ospreys though, one of which was good enough to fly right over our heads giving us some pretty decent shots. That was fun.

 photo Osprey-2015-09-14 -500_zpsub9nu3wo.jpg

 photo Osprey-20125-09-14_500_zpsxj6m9zbm.jpg

Good afternoon everyone.

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All I want is the truth. Just give me some truth. John Lennon

MarilynW's picture

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To thine own self be true.

burnt out's picture

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All I want is the truth. Just give me some truth. John Lennon

enhydra lutris's picture

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That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

burnt out's picture

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All I want is the truth. Just give me some truth. John Lennon

gulfgal98's picture

Where my mother lives in the lake country along the central spine of Florida, there are tons of ospreys that come to nest there. The town has built wooden platforms atop utility poles along the lakes for them to build their nests. And still some will find other places to nest such as the pair that built a nest atop a billboard. They are pretty amazing and beautiful birds.

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Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?

“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy

burnt out's picture

fifteen years ago. I think the big COE lakes are what originally drew them to Missouri. Since then they've slowly expanded their range and are now seen occasionally on most of the bigger rivers in the state. They seem to be steadily increasing their numbers but aren't anywhere near as common as where you're talking about. We usually see about a half dozen a year. Seeing two in one day today was a treat.

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All I want is the truth. Just give me some truth. John Lennon

Unabashed Liberal's picture

call me a "low information" bird watcher!

Biggrin

Anyhoo, I greatly enjoy the excellent photography that several of our Bluesters conjure up on a regular basis. Thank you for adding to that collection!

To me it is truly a marvel to watch a bird fly.

(I'm happy and excited that our little Cardinal Family seems to have reconstituted itself after having lost more than 2/3's of its family members due to the last bitter cold snap last winter. I should have a final count of them real soon.)

Mollie


"Every time I lose a dog, he takes a piece of my heart. Every new dog gifts me with a piece of his. Someday, my heart will be total dog, and maybe then I will be just as generous, loving, and forgiving."--Author Unknown
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Everyone thinks they have the best dog, and none of them are wrong.

burnt out's picture

are pretty good at bouncing back if given half a chance.

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All I want is the truth. Just give me some truth. John Lennon