The knives comes out for Tulsi

Tulsi wasn't supposed to do that.
Not only was she not supposed to attack Kamala Harris, but she most certainly wasn't supposed to have landed such an effective blow and lived to tell about it.

Harris is the establishment's primary backup candidate after Biden.
She was supposed to coast through the primaries while all the attention was on Handsy Joe. Now she's wounded, and the establishment is royally pissed.

tulsi_1.PNGtulsi1.PNGtulsi2.PNGtulsi3.PNG

What is interesting is how the attacks are coming from both the right...

"This current president is continuing to betray us. We were supposed to be going after al Qaeda, but over years now, not only have we not gone after al Qaeda, who's stronger today than they were on 9/11, our president is supporting al Qaeda," Gabbard, an Iraq War veteran, said. She later clarified after the debate that Trump's alliance with Saudi Arabia indirectly supports al Qaeda.

Trump told reporters Thursday that Gabbard's statement is "ridiculous," citing progress his administration has made in fighting terrorism abroad.

"So nobody knows what she meant by that ... She doesn't know what she's talking about," Trump said. "So for her to make that statement is ridiculous, frankly."

...and the left.

Tulsi Gabbard is running for president of a country that she believes has wrought horror on the world, and she wants its citizens to remember that.

She is from Hawaii, and she spends each morning surfing. But that is not what she talks about in this unlikely campaign. She talks about the horror.

She lists countries: Afghanistan, Libya, Syria, Cuba, Vietnam, Iraq. Failure after failure, she says. To drive the point home, she wants to meet on a Sioux tribe reservation in North Dakota, where, she explains, the United States government committed its original atrocity.
...
“Tracking metrics of Russian state propaganda on Twitter, she was by far the most favored candidate,” said Clinton Watts, a former F.B.I. agent and senior fellow at the Foreign Policy Research Institute. “She’s the Kremlin’s preferred Democrat. She is such a useful agent of influence for them. Whether she knows it’s happening or not, they love what she’s saying.”

The appeal, Mr. Watts explained, is clear: “She’s a U.S. military officer and a Democrat who says the U.S. should withdraw from the world.”

The establishment's patience with Tulsi is coming to an end.
She'll get the Jeremy Corbyn treatment soon if she doesn't back off.

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42 users have voted.

Comments

In the military is a peacenick, when they could have been a conscientious objector instead.

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thanatokephaloides's picture

@davidgmillsatty

It is hard to convince me that anyone who has been In the military is a peacenick, when they could have been a conscientious objector instead.

First, the "conscientious objector" thing is solely a function of the military draft. We (USA) have not used the draft since 1973, (Congresswoman Gabbard was born in 1981) and women have never been subject to it.

Second and more importantly, some of the most strident peaceniks America has ever produced were military veterans who had seen combat. The Presidency provides us with two such examples: Dwight D. "Ike" Eisenhower, who coined the term "military-industrial complex" and warned us about its dangers; and Ulysses S. Grant, whose anti-war cred is well established, and also commemorated on his New York tomb ("Let Us Have Peace").

Nothing like having to deal with real war to break someone's taste for it!

Wink

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36 users have voted.

"I say enough! If Israel wants to be the only superpower in the Middle East then they can put their own asses on the line and do it themselves. I want to continue to eat."
-- snoopydawg

@thanatokephaloides Believe me I truly understand your comment since that was a choice that was staring me in the face in 1972 after we had long lost the war in Vietnam (and would not admit it) and I had to report for the draft after having graduated from college and losing my student deferment.

It probably was the defining moment of my life. I ended up being 4F, getting a physical deferment, because I had managed to tear up my left thumb playing sports in college and had to have a fusion of it. Because of my 20% disability to my left hand, I did not have to make the choice of whether to report for duty, flee to Canada, or go to jail. But there were so many who didn't get lucky with a 4 F and had to make the choice. And the true anti-war people went to Canada or went to jail.

I am not impressed with those who make the choice to join when they don't have to. I understand that fact that many of our most ardent anti-war advocates are former military. To my mind, they made the wrong choice in the first place, i.e. they would not take the rap for being a conscientious objector; so I can never trust them no matter how sincere they may be now, and even though they may understand the perils of war far better than I.

That is just my bias. Tulsi, to my mind is probably just another John Kerry.

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@davidgmillsatty @davidgmillsatty and without any deferments to use, including drug arrests that no longer mattered to our wholesome killing machine's operators so on foot my girlfriend, her three year old boy, Dylan,and a long time friend of mine (he was also dodging the draft) hitched to Canada.
We sneaked in through the woods then hitched to Vancouver and like many other Canadian cities it had a lot of people avoiding the draft, and soldiers that went AWOL.

Where we differed was that the group I was in had been nowhere killing people and weren't going to start and if I had failed getting to Canada I would've gone to prison but I can't speak for the others, but I also met AWOL guys that were against the war on a deeper level. I watched quite a few that broke down crying and one that became a friend for years that when drinking he couldn't escape the war memories and would cry and shake his head muttering something about "what we did to those people".

He was a "sincere" advocate for peace, and in some ways I trusted his sincerity about being against war more than a few CO's that I believe would never choose prison over "serving". That is another reason I trust Tulsi Gabbard.

But nobody tops the anti-war list like hometown friend Gary who got second degree burns over two-thirds of his body from a powder bag explosion in Vietnam and after his time in the 'burn ward' in San Antonio when told he was was being sent back must have been very convincing when he told them he'd shoot the first person that gave him a loaded gun because he got released for 'psychiatric' reasons.

He too became a member of the Fort Worth Texas Anti-War group and I think everyone knows that any anti-war march was tremendously enhanced with Veterans at the lead.

So you can see where I differ with you about trusting people that have tasted war when they say they are against wars. Their views aren't from the media they are their own feelings and that I can trust.

"so I can never trust them no matter how sincere they may be now, and even though they may understand the perils of war far better than I. "

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@aliasalias Good points. But my response would be that your decision prevented you from ever being a politician in this country whereas those who served still had their political options open. Of course you could have run for a political position and might even have been elected on a local level, but only in the rarest of places would you have been able to be elected at a state level. And of course you would have been prevented from doing lots of other things that involved licensure or no arrests or convictions.

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@davidgmillsatty @davidgmillsatty that might affect my future, it was the right thing to do and I'm not unhappy about my life, it certainly could have been a lot better from childhood on up but it would've been a helluva lot worse if in any way I had participated and/or supported that particular industrial scale killing spree.

In short, it wasn't about 'me' or my personal possible future in fact I didn't think about that at all like the others I wanted to change what was happening in that time.

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polkageist's picture

@davidgmillsatty
I was a Marine and I'm anti-war. Attitudes like yours don't allow for people to learn and grow.

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Greed is not a virtue.
Socialism: the radical idea of sharing.

gulfgal98's picture

@polkageist I spent over four years with a local Peace vigil and our most strident anti war citizens we met were people who had served in the military. Three of the four men in our group were military veterans including one WW II vet, a Korean War vet, and a Army reserve vet.

Many people who joined the military post 9/11 did so out of a desire to serve their country. This was due to the propaganda that we all were fed.

The most touching moment in my years with the Peace vigil was the day that a vet and his wife stopped by. He was reticent at first but when he realized that we were not anti military, he opened up to us. He had joined the military because he believed that he was doing the right thing in defending our country against foreign attacks. It was only after he spent several tours of duty overseas, including a life defining one in Iraq that he realized that he and the rest of us had been lied to.

The problem is not the people who serve in our military. The problem is the people who decide that our military should be used as a war machine to wage wars against innocent people as a tool of the oligarchy.

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37 users have voted.

"I don't want to run the empire, I want to bring it down!" ~Dr. Cornel West

"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." John F Kennedy

@gulfgal98
In our little town still going strong after almost 20 years.

IMG_7917.jpg

Not sure how many are military veterans, but the average age of the bunch is about 70. Old enough to have seen the many military mistakes made.

Go Tulsi

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May we be united and strong -- laurel

gulfgal98's picture

@QMS Ours died out due to age and health issues among out remaining participants. My years with them were among my most fond memories ever.

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"I don't want to run the empire, I want to bring it down!" ~Dr. Cornel West

"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." John F Kennedy

@gulfgal98 See my post above and why that does not impress me much.

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@polkageist See my post above yours and maybe you will learn something.

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@polkageist Sometimes you don't get a second chance after having made a mistake. See my post above. The conscientious objectors of the Vietnam war who did the right thing in refusing to serve and who took the rap for it by either going to jail or fleeing to Canada still pay for it.

Don't believe me? Name one US politician who went to Canada to avoid the draft or who stayed and went to jail. Name one.

True conscientious objectors are forced out of our politics. Those who became anti-war after they served in the military still get to have political careers and lots of other privileges like liscensures. Had I not been 4F and had chosen as my options to flee to Canada or gone to jail by staying here, I would have never been able to get a law license, much less had any hope of being a politician had I wanted to do that. Because conscientious objectors who do that are cowards who hate their country.

People who join the military, when they have a means of opting opt, just perpetuate the military/politcal machine. Yes people can change, but they made the wrong decision in the first place when that decision was extremely crucial.

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@davidgmillsatty
Wow, 4-F. It always impresses the hell out of me when someone proudly asserts the courage with which he would have handled a situation he never faced. Why did you show up to take the physical?

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@FuturePassed Don't think that I don't think about it every time it comes up. My parents were Republicans who supported the war and voted for Nixon both times, but I know they were not disappointed at all when I was 4F. In fact they were very instrumental in getting all of my disability papers in order. 4F meant they did not have to face the same things other parents did. My parents would have been decimated had either I or my brother been killed in Vietnam. My brother was two years behind me with an even lower draft number, but fortunately for him they had stopped the draft by 1974. But they would also have been shamed had I run off to Canada and I would have lost a girlfriend whose parents would have never accepted it either.

The truth is I don't know what I would have done had I not been 4F. And the other thing I have always wondered is whether my 4F was truly legitimate. Even with a 20% disability of my left hand, which was very legit by the way because I have no middle joint in my left thumb, since I was a very good athlete, I was still probably much better fit than many people who were selected.

My lottery number was 52 as I recall. And at that point, people who had numbers like 300 didn't face what I faced. They didn't face the decision I had to make whether to report to the draft or not.

But the point I want to make about comments like yours is that it very typical of just how we shame conscientious objectors.. There are so many ways to make the claim of cowardice. Even subtly. Your implication is that you were not a coward and I was and that is what perpetuates the system.

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snoopydawg's picture

@davidgmillsatty

first you say this:

People who join the military, when they have a means of opting opt, just perpetuate the military/politcal machine. Yes people can change, but they made the wrong decision in the first place when that decision was extremely crucial.

But then you give yourself an excuse for not running to Canada to escape the draft that you think others should have:

But they would also have been shamed had I run off to Canada and I would have lost a girlfriend whose parents would have never accepted it either.

And then....

My lottery number was 52 as I recall. And at that point, people who had numbers like 300 didn't face what I faced. They didn't face the decision I had to make whether to report to the draft or not.

What about people that had lower numbers than you did and didn't object to going or didn't go to Canada? You think that they didn't have to face the same decision you did? I am really confused by what you are saying here to explain your first comment.

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America is a pathetic nation; a fascist state fueled by the greed, malice, and stupidity of her own people.
- strife delivery

@snoopydawg Of course the low number lottery holders faced the same decision and many reported for duty and some didn't. By being 4F I was essentially in the same group of all the people with high lottery numbers, with the exception that they did not have to report. And as I have said, to this day had I not been 4F I do not know what choice I would have made. Like all of the people with high lottery numbers, I did not have to make a choice.

But people who enlist, consciously make the decision to serve. And that is Tulsi. And she never hesitates to remind voters that she is military. And I guess my question would be, if she had not been military, would she have gotten this far on the national stage. And my skeptical nature tells me she would not be. And had there been a draft, and had she conscientiously objected, I feel real sure she would not be where she is on the national stage; and if she were, it would be a political first.

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@davidgmillsatty
ANYONE who served in Vietnam. Those comments came from people who never got any closer to Southeast Asia than I did. I never kept it a secret. My number never came up or I would have spent two years doing alternate service. Thank God I never have to ask who might have died in my place.

On one occasion the portable replica of the Vietnam Memorial came to my state. None of the tenured faculty wanted to accept the invitation to a location several hours away. I did. When I talked to an organizer on the phone I told him I'd be honored to attend, but he needed to know that I was a conscientious objector during the war. He laughed out loud and said "That's probably why you're where you are and I'm where I am." The veterans were wonderful to me. One helped me find two names on the wall. Three people in the same small state shared one of the names the year he died.

Then there was the friend who died of cancer in his early forties. The Agent Orange covered jungle he crawled through had nothing to do with it. His name isn't on the wall.

I've often asked myself whether I was fully honest. I said things that gave the draft board the opportunity to reject my claim. It was a horrible time in so many ways.

Reading your account I realize we have a lot in common.

Tulsi Gabbard was raised in a very conservative family. After 9-11 she signed up to help track down a man we were all told murdered 3,000 Americans. Her first tour she worked with the wounded. Her experience in the wider world made her much more liberal in many areas. She sure wasn't improving her political chances when she walked out of the DNC and endorsed Bernie.

I won't tell anyone who to vote for or even to vote. But I think you're being hard on Rep. Gabbard.

Horrible memories from a horrible time.

Peace.

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@FuturePassed poor judgment at age 27 with the decision on marriage. What a disaster, with life-long consequences, not all of them good.

I'm not about to severely judge others for decisions they made in their early 20s. And as you note, we all come up differently and hers was in a traditional atmosphere, perhaps one where military service was valued.

Unclear a bit was the poster's position ca 1972 -- was his primary objection being enlisted in the military or being enlisted in order to be shipped to VN? If the latter, iirc TPTB were no longer taking draftees and shipping them off to the jungles far away. Again going from memory, my understanding is the last combat units were removed in the summer of '72, just (conveniently) before the election. No draftees were being shipped there to serve.

Combat units that might have still been there at some point in '72 were ordered not to engage, just defend when necessary. Nixon's plan for years had been to Vietnamize the war to the point that it would become a non-issue by Nov '72 -- check.

I found the poster's argument in another thread on a constitutional issue far more compelling than what was offered here. Tulsi is by all appearances a significantly evolved person from where she was on some things at age 22. And I don't find it all persuasive that at 22 the decision she made should disqualify her for elective office 17 yrs later.

It's a non-factor for me, completely. And politically, her military service actually helps her today to make her anti-regime change war pitch. Her bold, courageous stance against unnecessary and harmful war-making -- alone among Dem contenders -- makes her peacenik enough for me.

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@davidgmillsatty Did you and I just agree on something?
The world just flipped!

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@on the cusp See my post above.

Actually, I bet we have a lot in common. I am a progressive in the sense that I staunchly believe in the part of the preamble to the Constitution that requires the government to "promote the general welfare." We may disagree on the details, but I think you would agree with me that the government has an obligation to promote the general welfare of the people when that was one of the major reasons for founding the government in the first place.

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Azazello's picture

@davidgmillsatty
Veterans For Peace

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@Azazello all became peace mongers. All of them that were able helped guys get to Canada to evade the draft.
What is different from then and now is this War on Terror.
This crazy shit has swamped our privacy rights, our right to travel freely, our right to protest, and has led to drones killing Americans without a trial.
That is the concern I have about Tulsi.
I loved her debate performance, and actually think she is authentic.
But she has this thing about Terrorists, as did Dubya. And that, to me, is the point where I would invite a person into my home, or not. I would not invite her into my home.

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@on the cusp for the next generation this normal America, always at war, under surveillance, dysfunctional government unresponsive to citizens. For them it's always been this way.

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@Azazello Of course I have heard of them. Since I made a number of responses above, I think you will better understand my point.

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@davidgmillsatty
Those with opinions that differ from the norm are welcome here until they've proven that they are only here to troll and disrupt.

Given how you parachuted into this thread at the top level and and are working so hard to dominate the narrative and the many examples of the exact same tactic on many threads that I've noticed lately, I'm really starting to wonder about you my friend.

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@JtC I have lurked here since the inception of this board and rarely comment. I know my opinions are quite controversial. I supported Sanders in 2016 until he made it clear he was going to support Clinton. I voted for Jill Stein. She is probably controversial here but I don't agree with a lot of her positions either.

I am not here to trash Tulsi. Only to say I find her military props which she wears on her sleeve disappointing to me. If she is the nominee, I might very well vote for her. But she would have no hope of winning my red state anyway.

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@davidgmillsatty
about Tulsi. A few weeks ago I recall a back and forth between you and another member here that went on for days, quite contentious too.

Then a few days ago there was a drawn out thread about Epstein and pedophilia.

Now this thread today. Those are the ones I remember, there may be more that I missed.

It seems you relish the rancor and are more than happy to drag it out as long as possible disrupting the threads that you roost in. That kind of activity raises my eyebrows no matter who does it.

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@JtC Three threads were of particular interest to me. The first had to do with financing M4A and I had an argument with someone about currency, something I have spent about ten years researching.

The second thread was about a constitutional issue regarding equal protection, something I spent a good part of two years of my legal career on. It just happened to be on a Epstein thread that also accused Derschowitz who raised the constitutional issue.

And this is the third one, something that has obviously been personal to me all of my life because I have been very anti-war since Vietnam. Tulsi was accused in this post of being a peacenik, and to me she doesn't qualify.

Call it a coincidence or not. Normally these topics don't come up all that often.

But I am ready to go back into my hidey-hole, because I don't need this.

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Raggedy Ann's picture

what she’s made of. Will this embolden her or will she be a shrinking violet?

The games have begun. Enjoy the show.
Pleasantry

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“The trouble [with injustice] is that once you see it, you can’t unsee it. And once you’ve seen it, keeping quiet, saying nothing, becomes as political an act as speaking out. There is no innocence. Either way, you’re accountable.”
-- Arundhati Roy

Alligator Ed's picture

@Raggedy Ann She is a tough counter-puncher as well as one who lands a punishing first blow.

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Raggedy Ann's picture

@Alligator Ed
Today's essay by Wally, showing her waffling on Medicare for All, speaks volumes to me.

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“The trouble [with injustice] is that once you see it, you can’t unsee it. And once you’ve seen it, keeping quiet, saying nothing, becomes as political an act as speaking out. There is no innocence. Either way, you’re accountable.”
-- Arundhati Roy

tulsi4.jpg

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@gjohnsit
Somehow "stupid" just isn't a strong enough word.

dumb.jpg

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snoopydawg's picture

@gjohnsit

Indeed! Giving money to a multiple millionaire so that she can be made even richer? SMDH!

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America is a pathetic nation; a fascist state fueled by the greed, malice, and stupidity of her own people.
- strife delivery

@gjohnsit on the MSM. Thanks for the flashback!

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Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@tle

George H.W. Bush with the Saudi royalty. Or the one of his son. Or the one of McCain with a fucking terrorist standing behind him at the photo op.

Keep it classy, politicians.

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Actually, the issue at stake is patriotism. You must return to your world and put an end to the Commies. All it takes are a few good men.
--Q

Exit polls not involving George W. Bush or Hillary Clinton tend to be quite accurate.
--Doug Hatlem

snoopydawg's picture

@gjohnsit

IMG_3240.JPG
IMG_3242.JPG

IMG_3241.JPG

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33 users have voted.

America is a pathetic nation; a fascist state fueled by the greed, malice, and stupidity of her own people.
- strife delivery

It seems just earlier this week, people were lamenting her unperson status. That she’s gone from practically invisible to needing to be stopped overnight tells me she struck a nerve.

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36 users have voted.

nation that was conquered, without apology, and subsequently subjugated by the US Empire, its inhabitants stripped of any rights to most of the land, in favor of the Dole family's plantation claims. What could she possibly understand about the nature and consequences of US imperialism.

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34 users have voted.

The earth is a multibillion-year-old sphere.
The Nazis killed millions of Jews.
On 9/11/01 a Boeing 757 (AA77) flew into the Pentagon.
AGCC is happening.
If you cannot accept these facts, I cannot fake an interest in any of your opinions.

thanatokephaloides's picture

@UntimelyRippd

"She's from Hawaii" ... a formerly independent nation that was conquered, without apology, and subsequently subjugated by the US Empire, its inhabitants stripped of any rights to most of the land, in favor of the Dole family's plantation claims. What could she possibly understand about the nature and consequences of US imperialism.

To answer your question: She does seem to be rather against US imperialism and our suicidal national addiction to regime change intervention. As she's Indigenous (to American Samoa, whose history parallels that of Hawaii in many particulars), she's in a great position to understand "the nature and consequences of US imperialism". She even opposes the exact operations of the very US imperialism she took part in (Iraq).

At the point we're at now, I'll take any resistance to US imperialism I can get, wheresoever and however I can get it. All one needs to be, to qualify to resist US imperialism these days, is a taxpayer. It's our money (and blood) being wasted on this crap.

Diablo

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27 users have voted.

"I say enough! If Israel wants to be the only superpower in the Middle East then they can put their own asses on the line and do it themselves. I want to continue to eat."
-- snoopydawg

snoopydawg's picture

they are doing everything they can to protect Kambama and hide her awful legacy as attorney general.

California Removes Arrest Reports From Kamala Years

A redesign of the California Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation website will make it harder for voters to inspect Sen. Kamala Harris's controversial record as the state's top cop.

The department removed public access to a number of reports on incarceration in the state, including when presidential candidate Kamala Harris (D.) was California's attorney general. Twice a year, the CDCR releases information about the number of new individuals incarcerated in the California prison system as part of its "Offender Data Points" series. These reports provide important information on demographics, sentence length, offense type, and other figures relevant to criminal justice and incarceration.

Until recently, these reports were publicly available at the CDCR's website. A search using archive.org's Wayback Machine reveals that as of April 25, 2019—the most recent indexed date—ODP reports were available dating back to the spring of 2009. As of August 2019, the same web page now serves only a single ODP report, the one for Spring 2019. The pre-2019 reports have been removed.

The changes matter in part because the reports contain information about Harris's entire time as state A.G., 2011 to 2017. Harris has taken fire from multiple opponents for her "tough on crime" record as California's top cop, an image that she has tried to shed as a far-left senator and presidential candidate.

Too late. Her history was well known at the time and there were plenty of articles written back then and more have been since she declared she was running. You can run, but you can't hide, Kambama-Kamillary.

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40 users have voted.

America is a pathetic nation; a fascist state fueled by the greed, malice, and stupidity of her own people.
- strife delivery

Benny's picture

Especially at TOP.

She is being vilified for being a 1% polling candidate who dared to take Harris on about her prosecution record and her Hillary-like health insurance plan.

Kamala Harris is a serious candidate, with serious positions, and a serious chance of becoming the Democratic nominee. Tulsi Gabbard is none of those things. But she can be a serious spoiler when third-tier candidates, such as Gabbard and Williamson, are treated as the real thing by networks that are more interested in punchlines than policy. What Gabbard was looking for on Wednesday wasn’t enough attention to become a serious candidate. She was looking to get 1% from Harris so she can climb onto the stage in the next round.

Let’s hope she doesn’t get it.

Let's see, whose name was in the google box after those exchanges?

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37 users have voted.

One equal temper of heroic hearts, Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will. To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.--Tennyson

@Benny in the last year. Nope, still totally unhinged.

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18 users have voted.

@tle bless your heart.

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@Benny There is still some good ammo against Kamala, and it ain't pretty; she's toast, but the TOP kids just don't know it yet.

Multiple stories about known police corruption that she ignored...underage sexual exploitation/rape of minors, perjury/falsifying evidence, etc.

https://blog.simplejustice.us/2019/08/02/seaton-harris-presidential-bid-...

https://www.eastbayexpress.com/oakland/months-later-still-no-charges-aga...

https://ocweekly.com/kamala-harris-president-campaign/

There's plenty more.

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@ChezJfrey Every vote has been yes. Yes on regime change wars, yes on billions to military contractors, yes on American empire, yes on mass slaughter.

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losers of Debates Round II. They put TG in the losers list. Who were the winners? Booker. and Gillibrand. And I forget who else.

Jeebus.

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27 users have voted.

The earth is a multibillion-year-old sphere.
The Nazis killed millions of Jews.
On 9/11/01 a Boeing 757 (AA77) flew into the Pentagon.
AGCC is happening.
If you cannot accept these facts, I cannot fake an interest in any of your opinions.

@UntimelyRippd
he appears to be the grand winner. Or whiner. or weiner.

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9 users have voted.
thanatokephaloides's picture

The appeal, Mr. Watts explained, is clear: “She’s a U.S. military officer and a Democrat who says the U.S. should withdraw from the world.”

OK, so in Mr. Watts' eyes, ceasing our nation's hideously expensive and notoriously ineffective program of trying to run other people's countries for them (regime change wars) constitutes "withdrawal from the world".

Sounds to me like Mr. Watts is a "Forever War" addict, and the real withdrawal is Mr. Watts getting cut off from his dope!

Bad

Ever hear of "peaceful co-existence", Mr. Watts? You know, the way most other countries do? Way cheaper than your chosen dope! Come to Colorado and try our fine marijuana instead. Not only cheaper, but the rest of us don't have to pay for it.....

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31 users have voted.

"I say enough! If Israel wants to be the only superpower in the Middle East then they can put their own asses on the line and do it themselves. I want to continue to eat."
-- snoopydawg

Whereas those selling that BS are genocide apologists. And wedding-party-bombing apologists. And starvation apologists. And Al Qaeda apologists. And bonesaw murder apologists. I could go on all day.

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31 users have voted.
Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@tle

waterboarding-a-guy-187-times apologists.

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16 users have voted.

Actually, the issue at stake is patriotism. You must return to your world and put an end to the Commies. All it takes are a few good men.
--Q

Exit polls not involving George W. Bush or Hillary Clinton tend to be quite accurate.
--Doug Hatlem

k9disc's picture

things and wanting to cool off the hot military aggression globally seems to be not upsetting to the Left. I'm pretty sure the Left is hoping she's the real deal and not going to get bullied into global warmongering.

I'm pretty tired of being lumped in with Free Traders and Deep State warmongers and apologists. Now the FBI is leading the "leftist critique" with Russophobia. Putinphobia and Drumpfenfear are NOT leftist beliefs and certainly not top shelf issues.

She's taking shit from the corporate Center. The right doesn't care about her and the Left hopes she's the real deal. Republicans and Democratic party apparatchiks and Big Corporate & the Oligarchs are making these arguments via the corporate sponsored press.

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21 users have voted.

“Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat.” ~ Sun Tzu

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@k9disc

I hadn't seen that.

They already got liberal, progressive and left. If Hillary is any or all of those things we've entered la-la land anyway.

I thought they were too squeamish to use the word "leftist," generally employed only by the so-called "hard left," comprising mainly socialists and left-wing anarchists.

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12 users have voted.

Actually, the issue at stake is patriotism. You must return to your world and put an end to the Commies. All it takes are a few good men.
--Q

Exit polls not involving George W. Bush or Hillary Clinton tend to be quite accurate.
--Doug Hatlem

ggersh's picture

@k9disc has her being liked by some of the rabid
Faux believers, she's a threat to the establishment
cuz she appeals to both the left and right and imo
some of the indies

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13 users have voted.

trump will be amerika's last president

There is no way in the American political system to vote against the interests of GS, JPM, Citi, ATT, AMZN, MSFT, WM, Alphabet, FB, APPL, Exxon Mobil, Lockheed Martin, UHG or Northrop Grumman.

Mark from Queens's picture

Nicholas Kristoff ain't having it.

Was Kevin Cooper Framed for Murder?

The first sign that something was wrong was a continuous busy signal on the home phone of Doug and Peggy Ryen.

Bill Hughes, who lived nearby, wasn’t initially concerned. His 11-year-old son, Chris, had slept over at the Ryens’ and he thought maybe they had all gone out for breakfast. But finally at noon Hughes drove over to pick Chris up and, when no one answered the Ryens’ door, he peered through the sliding glass doors — and his brain couldn’t process all the red. “This is paint, makeup,” he thought wildly.

Then reality sank in, and he kicked the kitchen door in. Blood from the five victims was splattered everywhere. Hughes rushed to his son, but the body was cold. Doug and Peggy Ryen, both nude, had also been stabbed to death, and the bloody corpse of their 10-year-old daughter, Jessica, was in a doorway. But Josh Ryen, 8 years old, was moving feebly on the floor even though his throat had been slashed and his skull fractured.

Soon sheriff’s deputies were swarming all over the Ryen house in affluent, suburban Chino Hills, east of Los Angeles, that day in June 1983. Several signs, including Josh’s personal account, pointed to three white attackers, and blond or brown hairs were found in the victims’ hands, as if torn off in a struggle.

Sheriff’s deputies were also contacted by the woman whose boyfriend was a convicted murderer, recently released from prison, whom she suspected of involvement in the Ryen killings. She not only gave deputies his bloody coveralls but also told them that his hatchet was missing from his tool rack and resembled one of the weapons reportedly used in the attacks.

But instead of testing the coveralls for the Ryens’ blood, the deputies threw them away–and pursued Cooper. After a racially charged trial, he was convicted of murdering the Ryens and Chris Hughes and is now on death row at San Quentin Prison.

Gov. Jerry Brown is refusing to allow advanced DNA testing that might finally resolve the question of who committed the murders, even though Cooper’s defense would pay for it. Brown refuses to allow even advanced testing of the blond or brown hairs that were found in the victims’ hands.

This is the story of a broken justice system. It appears that an innocent man was framed by sheriff’s deputies and is on death row in part because of dishonest cops, sensational media coverage and flawed political leaders — including Democrats like Brown and Kamala Harris, the state attorney general before becoming a U.S. senator, who refused to allow newly available DNA testing for a black man convicted of hacking to death a beautiful white family and young neighbor. This was a failure at every level, and it should prompt reflection not just about one man on death row but also about profound inequities in our entire system of justice.

I’m using strong language, I know. But I went to San Quentin to interview Cooper, reviewed trial transcripts and other documents, spoke to innumerable people on and off the record, and in 34 years at The New York Times, I’ve never come across a case in America as outrageous as Kevin Cooper’s. So hear me out.

Smarter people than me have come to the same conclusion. “This guy is innocent,” said Thomas R. Parker, a 30-year law enforcement veteran who was deputy head of the F.B.I.’s office in Los Angeles. “The evidence was planted, he was framed, the cops lied on the stand.”

Parker said the case involved “abject racism,” and he has volunteered his time investigating the case for the last seven years because he is horrified that a man he believes was framed is nearing execution.

There's just a litany of stuff on this cold-blooded, heartless Neoliberal careerist.

Gabbard's clear-eyed and focused takedown of this horrid woman was so righteous.

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35 users have voted.

"If I should ever die, God forbid, let this be my epitaph:

THE ONLY PROOF HE NEEDED
FOR THE EXISTENCE OF GOD
WAS MUSIC"

- Kurt Vonnegut

snoopydawg's picture

@Mark from Queens

Climbing up the career ladder on innocent people's lives is abhorrent. And evil. Kamala did run on a progressive platform, but she had to because she was running against a truly progressive AG. Once in office she pulled an Obama and went back on everything she said she would do.

There are so many innocent people in our prisons and it's sickening. Every person involved with doing that should have to take their place.

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20 users have voted.

America is a pathetic nation; a fascist state fueled by the greed, malice, and stupidity of her own people.
- strife delivery

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@snoopydawg

George W. Bush's disgusting climb up on the backs of disenfranchised black voters. She's climbing up on the backs of framed black prisoners.

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15 users have voted.

Actually, the issue at stake is patriotism. You must return to your world and put an end to the Commies. All it takes are a few good men.
--Q

Exit polls not involving George W. Bush or Hillary Clinton tend to be quite accurate.
--Doug Hatlem

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@Mark from Queens

What a motherfucker.

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14 users have voted.

Actually, the issue at stake is patriotism. You must return to your world and put an end to the Commies. All it takes are a few good men.
--Q

Exit polls not involving George W. Bush or Hillary Clinton tend to be quite accurate.
--Doug Hatlem

hecate's picture

@Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal
you missed that Brown ordered DNA testing. And Newsom has since ordered more.

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6 users have voted.

@hecate thanks I tried looking for the DNA results, file not found. The first test results kept him in prison, what's up with that? I don't know. Remembering back to the 80s is a Reagan trigger BAM! don't go there.

The goal is to see whose DNA is on the items, Newsom said. He noted, however, that multiple DNA from unknown contributors may have contaminated the evidence, given the age of the case and that items have been routinely handled by investigators and others.

OJ. I do now wonder what the "DNA results" might be. dopamine crash

sensational headlines war
death rattle battle
PEACE

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7 users have voted.
Deja's picture

@Azazello @eyo
His defense attorney(s) claims he was framed. His cigarette butts in the family's stolen station wagon, and his blood on a tee shirt found on the side of the road. Convenient, eh? But there were blond and brown hairs found in the victims hands that are supposed to be tested now, 35 yrs later. Along with non blood dna (I presume) from the tee shirt.

How can there be so many socio and psychopaths working in law enforcement, prosecution, and politics? Because, there is absolutely no way in hell I could sleep at night, look myself in the mirror, or fucking live with myself, if day in and day out, I lied, suppressed, destroyed (the bloody coveralls were fucking destroyed), planted dna, all to railroad innocent people, simply to get a slam dunk conviction. Whether it's 30 days in jail, or the fucking death penalty, I could not do it.

I mean, I hate it when I run into a problem at work that I can't seem to solve, but I don't blame it on someone or something just to be able to say 'case closed, problem solved'. It's not actually solved if I do that.

Wtf is wrong with people who do that, every day, as their jobs? Don't they fear whoever actually did the deed will do it again and again since they know they have built a case around someone they want to pin it on, as opposed to finding the right person based on actual evidence? Don't they fear the next victim could be someone they care about?

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11 users have voted.
hecate's picture

@Deja
a fine fellow.

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6 users have voted.
Deja's picture

@hecate
Here's one I wrote about. Except that new evidence has been released that the murdered woman was shot from outside the house. The article I quoted from says a cop claimed she reached for his gun, inside the house. You'd think they'd be better at keeping their stories straight.

https://caucus99percent.com/content/oh-irony-houston-police-union-prez-p...

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7 users have voted.

@eyo
I too upon reading about Kevin Cooper here, was also curious so googled the case and read more about it. This write up by 48 hours is the most complete.

They did run DNA in 2004 and to the shock of the defendant and his defense it came back positive
But when he was originally arrested they took two vials of blood from him, and there was only one very small blood paint sized speck in the premises.

The original dna lab work also tested positive for a preservative called something like EFF they use to preserve lab blood and the night before the DNA testing, someone checked the paint speck out of the lab.

Mary Howell the mother of the slain wife and grandmother of the children also has her doubts that just one person could have butchered 5 with 3 different instruments/weapons.

The Josh Rogan son/grandchild who was the sole survivor first told the police from his hospital bed that there were 3 assailants and never positively identified Cooper.

They both are in support of more sophisticated DNA testing if only to learn the truth.
(Mary has since passed away)

Dianne Roper, girlfriend of Farrow, a convicted murder said he came home that night in bloody overalls and his hatchet was gone.
She called the police, they collected the overalls and disposed of them before doing any lab work.

Other witness say they saw 3 men in a bar one in overalls, another in a tan shirt splattered in blood shortly after.

The car they found had blood on 3 seats.

Appeals court judge said evidence was discounted, disregarded and discarded by the deputies.

If interested you can read more about it here.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/kevin-cooper-chino-hills-massacre-can-dna-t...

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8 users have voted.
Deja's picture

@Sirena @Sirena
Great find and addition.

Edit add: whoever checked out the paint speck the day before the testing should be locked up as long as this innocent man has been locked up! 35 yrs and counting. Makes me sick.

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3 users have voted.
Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@hecate

Gov. Jerry Brown is refusing to allow advanced DNA testing that might finally resolve the question of who committed the murders, even though Cooper’s defense would pay for it.

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5 users have voted.

Actually, the issue at stake is patriotism. You must return to your world and put an end to the Commies. All it takes are a few good men.
--Q

Exit polls not involving George W. Bush or Hillary Clinton tend to be quite accurate.
--Doug Hatlem

hecate's picture

@Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal
you did miss, and seem determined to continue to miss:

Gov. Jerry Brown ordered new DNA tests Monday that a condemned inmate says could clear him in a 35-year-old murder case that has drawn national attention.

Brown ordered new testing on four pieces of evidence that Kevin Cooper and his attorneys say will show he was framed for the 1983 Chino Hills hatchet and knife killings of four people. The items that will be tested are a tan T-shirt and orange towel found near the scene and the hatchet handle and sheath. Brown also appointed a retired Los Angeles County Superior Court judge to serve as a special master overseeing the case.

And:

California Gov. Gavin Newsom ordered additional DNA testing Friday on evidence that a death-row inmate says will prove his innocence in a 35-year-old murder case that has drawn national attention.

Former Gov. Jerry Brown previously ordered testing of four pieces of evidence that condemned inmate Kevin Cooper says will show he was framed for the 1983 hatchet and knife killings of four people, including two children, in Chino Hills.

Newsom expanded the testing to include a green button and hair, blood and fingernail scrapings from the victims.

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5 users have voted.
Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@hecate

in December 2018, on the way out. After spending four years as Attorney General (2007-2011) and seven years as Governor (2011-2018) refusing to do the test.

I'm sure Kevin Cooper doesn't mind spending the years 2007-2019 on death row. What's 12 years?

Glad it has, or could have, a happy ending. But Jerry Brown is still a bastard. I'm guessing that if Harris hadn't had presidential ambitions, the testing never would have been done.

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6 users have voted.

Actually, the issue at stake is patriotism. You must return to your world and put an end to the Commies. All it takes are a few good men.
--Q

Exit polls not involving George W. Bush or Hillary Clinton tend to be quite accurate.
--Doug Hatlem

@hecate
Jerry Brown ordered more dna testing limited to 4 items on his way out the door in Dec 2018.
The tan tee shirt, orange towel, hatchet and paint speck.

Newsom has since ordered more. Sample from under finger nails, hair and some green button.

Kamala Harris has now come out in support of such and apologized.

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11 users have voted.

We know the story that CNN and other media gave Trump over a billion dollars of PR. Now, CNN is giving just as much to destroy the democrats (through the cycle). I do not have any sort of cable TV and go to the internet tubes. It is apparent to me that CNN is just fucking attacking the candidates. Even Bernie who let the DNC cheat him, had to complain about republican talking points pushed by CNN commentators.

What kind of incompetent organization is the DNC that chooses a cable network to attack literally all of its candidates.

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16 users have voted.
snoopydawg's picture

@MrWebster

Delaney who had his ass handed to him by Warren went on Fox News and bashed her and Bernie for wanting to give us decent health care. I watched CNN today while visiting someone who had CNN on and they were complaining that people were criticizing Obama at the debates. But no one said anything about Delaney, Looperhicken, bullock and the other no chance candidates trashing Warren and Bernie. And of course the media is doing all it can to protect Kambama.

What kind of incompetent organization is the DNC that chooses a cable network to attack literally all of its candidates.

One that will do everything in its power to keep their donors happy. This means keeping Bernie from winning. I'm betting that they would accept Warren, but she wouldn't be allowed to pass any decent legislation. And an ex FBI agent said that was one thing that the FBI has done. Keep progressives out of the WH.

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22 users have voted.

America is a pathetic nation; a fascist state fueled by the greed, malice, and stupidity of her own people.
- strife delivery

@MrWebster uninformed voter, the entities operating under the banner of "freedom of the Press" are under no obligation to provide that information. The real money is in disinformation and propaganda.

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19 users have voted.
Azazello's picture

@MrWebster
Common Dreams

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8 users have voted.
jwa13's picture

... that chooses a cable network to attack literally all of its candidates?"

Not incompetent at all -- The Clinton News Network (CNN) and MSDNC are doing exactly what the DNC wants/is hoping for -- can't have the Washington Generals DemonRats winning occasionally now, can we? Would upset the entire aura of invincibility that currently surrounds the Harlem Globetrotters repugnants ... not to mention the possibility of upsetting the plutocratic applecart.

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20 users have voted.

When Cicero had finished speaking, the people said “How well he spoke”.
When Demosthenes had finished speaking, the people said “Let us march”.

@jwa13 it's kind of like the DNC is the mob. They want some people eliminated, but they don't want to look bad. So they put out a contract, a hit job, for CNN to take care of the problem. If Biden and Harris are the chosen ones, everyone else is a target.

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16 users have voted.
Centaurea's picture

@jwa13
is quite appropriate here.

When Demosthenes had finished speaking, the people said "Let us march."

I think Bernie Sanders has that quality, the ability to inspire and to attract a movement that coalesced around him. "Not me, us". He's marching with us. That's something that I can't imagine someone like Joe Biden or Kamala Harris ever doing, except maybe for a photo op because a focus group said it would be a good idea.

From what I've observed so far, Tulsi Gabbard has that quality, too. What she does with it, and what we do with it, time will tell.

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16 users have voted.

"Don't go back to sleep ... Don't go back to sleep ... Don't go back to sleep."
~Rumi

"If you want revolution, be it."
~Caitlin Johnstone

lotlizard's picture

https://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2019/08/02/empire-coming-for-tuls...

Tulsi Gabbard is admittedly a work in progress. But what I see in her is something that has the potential to be very special. She’s young enough to be both passionately brave and willing to go where the truth takes her.

And that truth has taken her where Democrats have feared to tread for more than forty years: the US Empire.

. . .

The true third rail of US politics is empire. Any candidate that is publicly against the empire is the enemy of not only the state, it’s quislings in the media, the corporations who profit from it and the party machines of both the GOP and the DNC.

That is Gabbard’s crime. And it’s the only crime that matters.

When the Empire is on the line, left and right in the US close ranks and unite against the threat. The good news is that all they have is their pathetic Russia bashing and appeals to their authority on foreign policy.

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24 users have voted.