Dirty politics south of the border

Submitted by gjohnsit on Wed, 02/07/2018 - 3:42pm

Last Friday U.S. Secretary of State Rex Tillerson warned Mexico that Putin was hiding under their beds.

Speaking in Mexico City, Tillerson said European counterparts had noticed that Russia had its fingerprints on a number of elections.
“We hear this from our European counterparts,” Tillerson said. “My advice would be ... pay attention to what’s happening.”
His comments followed remarks late last year by U.S. National Security Adviser H.R. McMaster, who said there was already evidence of Russian meddling in Mexican elections set for July.
McMaster did not give details of the alleged interference.

What Mexicans most took notice of was what Tillerson didn't say.
Sure, he didn't mention any proof behind his dramatic claim about Russia, but what they most noticed was the complete absence of any mention of the date.

The secretary of state’s words were also delivered on the 170th anniversary of the signing of the U.S.-Mexico Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo, an agreement reached in the wake of a U.S. military victory over Mexico that ceded much of modern-day New Mexico and the U.S. West to Washington. The anniversary was not lost on some south of the border.
“Symmetry has never existed on this border,” editorialized the Tijuana edition of La Jornada.

Oops!
Was there no one in the State Department aware of this?

According to today's poll, left-wing Mexican presidential candidate Andres Manuel Lopez Obrador has an 11-point lead over his closest rival.
A few days ago another poll also gave him an 11-point lead.
Almost no one north of the border want to see him win, especially the business community because of his talk of nationalizing oil.
However, Trump is doing everything he can to help him win.

“Without being disrespectful, we’re going to put him in his place,” Lopez Obrador said of Trump on Thursday in the Gulf of Mexico port of Veracruz, the scene of a notorious national humiliation when U.S. forces occupied it in 1914.
...The most obvious beneficiary of opposition to Trump, at least initially, would be Lopez Obrador, Buendia said.

The rise of Trump is motivating socialists within the U.S. and without.
The neocons running the Democratic Party establishment have been quick to assign credit for Obrador's rise to...Putin. Of course.

There’s a new 21st-century twist to the old lament, “Poor Mexico, so far from God, so close to the United States.” In the era of social media, distance is dying. So now, Mexico finds itself not only close to the United States but also a click away from Russia and its boiler rooms of hackers.
Suddenly, Mexico is being squeezed simultaneously by President Trump’s United States and Vladimir Putin’s Russia, each pursuing divergent interests but both, ironically, contributing to the same electoral outcome.
...McMaster gave no more details about what exactly Russia is doing in Mexico or how, precisely, it might be going about it.

Ah, yes. Who cares about proof anyway.
Unlike the WashPost, Obrador thinks the whole Scary Russia thing is a big joke.

Treating the Russia allegation with humor, he even posted a video introducing himself as an “Andres Manuelovich” who was out for “Moscow gold.” T-shirts bearing the name “Andres Manuelovich” were then even reported circulating in the country.

In response to Obrador not taking their bullshit seriously, the WashPost totally flipped out.
Why, oh why, won't he take us seriously?

More importantly, how is this NOT American interference in Mexico's election?

Does it not matter because it's the U.S. doing it?

In Mexico, OTOH, credit for Obrador's rise is given to a different foreign nation - Venezuela - also without a shred of proof.

January’s strange appearance of pro-López Obrador messages in the streets of Venezuela, authored by anonymous individuals who were suspected of being anti-López Obrador, was a harbinger of foreign attention on and possible interference in the 2018 Mexican elections.
On that note, López Obrador’s opponents began urging the INE to investigate the Morena leader’s alleged ties to Russia.
...Separately, and again without offering any hard evidence, Venezuelan opposition Congressman Rafael Ramirez Colín was quoted by Proceso on Feb. 3 claiming that his country’s president, Nicolas Maduro, was planning to finance López Obrador’s campaign, as part of a leftist political strategy aimed at creating an “axis of hunger” in Latin America.
López Obrador has repeatedly denied any connections to either Venezuela and Russia, blaming the stories on the political desperation of his adversaries.

Funny how stuff like this only happens when a leftist is winning.

Tags:

mexico

Election

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Vote

Comments

Submitted by gjohnsit on Wed, 02/07/2018 - 3:56pm

Scary Putin in Italian elections

WashPost again

The think tank’s authors believe that Russia’s influence may be strongest in Italy, where the populist Five Star Movement has been topping the polls. The movement’s policy stances in favor of closer ties to Russia are well documented in speeches. Meanwhile, other more serious accusations that it is cooperating with Russia to win next year’s election remain in question.

Submitted by The Voice In th... on Wed, 02/07/2018 - 4:23pm

Wapo sees a commie under every bed!

@gjohnsit

—

I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.

Submitted by MrWebster on Wed, 02/07/2018 - 4:13pm

Ay, caramba!!!! Putin also speaks Spanish.

Isn't it amazing how much Russian hackers know both the languages and internal politics of every country in the world.

Submitted by dkmich on Thu, 02/08/2018 - 10:05am

Yet they failed to change anything while

@MrWebster

attempting to hack the voting machines of 21 different states.

—

"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon

Submitted by The Voice In th... on Wed, 02/07/2018 - 4:23pm

Mexican leftist leading the polls.

Maybe somebody will release tapes revealing that he used to talk to Governor Blagojevich before that governor was indicted. Can't let anyone but right wingers win elections.

—

I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.

Submitted by snoopydawg on Wed, 02/07/2018 - 4:49pm

Has anyone actually asked Tillerson what exactly Russia is doin?

Anyone can say anything about anything, but without proof of it happening it is just a rumor. Or in this case a falsehood!

Wasn't part of the reason people responded so negatively towards Putin becoming president because he was cracking down on the oligarchs who had been doing whatever they wanted for so long?

Joe posted this in last night's EBs. It describes a woman from this country who has worked in Russia for decades and her encounters with a younger Putin and how he changed the country after his election.
Tillerson said that Russia is already interfering with the midterms and lo and behold there's a diary on ToP about it which says that people need to take to the streets.

—

There were problems with running a campaign of Joy while committing a genocide? Who could have guessed?

Harris is unburdened of speaking going forward.

Submitted by Meteor Man on Wed, 02/07/2018 - 5:23pm

From Your/Joe's Consortium Link

@snoopydawg

During this period, I’ve traveled throughout Russia several times every year, and have watched the country slowly change under Putin’s watch. Taxes were lowered, inflation lessened, and laws slowly put in place. Schools and hospitals began improving. Small businesses were growing, agriculture was showing improvement, and stores were becoming stocked with food.

Alcohol controls were strengthened, smoking was banned from buildings, and life expectancy began increasing. Highways were being laid across the country, new rails and modern trains appeared even in far out places, and the banking industry was becoming dependable. Russia was beginning to look like a decent country –– certainly not where Russians hoped it to be long term, but improving incrementally for the first time in their memories.

Can we draft Putin to be POTUS?

—

"They'll say we're disturbing the peace, but there is no peace. What really bothers them is that we are disturbing the war." Howard Zinn

Submitted by gjohnsit on Wed, 02/07/2018 - 5:30pm

Putin is a bastard

@Meteor Man
as you might imagine an ex-KGB chief would be.
just look at what he did to Chechnya.

However, he appears to honestly care about the fate of Russia and it's people.

That's very, very different from our puppet Yeltsin, who couldn't give a shit less about his people.
The economic catastrophe that struck Russia after 1989 traumatized the Russian people. Putin stopped the bleeding.

Submitted by Meteor Man on Wed, 02/07/2018 - 5:47pm

Putin Is A Peacenik

@gjohnsit
Compared to pretty much every American president. He has also reportedly sided with average Russians over the Oligarchs.

I'm just sayin'.

—

"They'll say we're disturbing the peace, but there is no peace. What really bothers them is that we are disturbing the war." Howard Zinn

Submitted by TheOtherMaven on Wed, 02/07/2018 - 8:03pm

Checked up on the timeline

@gjohnsit

Chechnya started the fighting under Yeltsin (1991-1996, First Chechen War), and eventually signed a peace treaty that gave Chechnya autonomy without full independence. I gather the fighting never completely stopped (still hasn't) and flared up again in 1999, shortly after Vladimir Putin was elected Prime Minister (not President - the positions are separate). Both of the Chechen secession wars were brutal, which suggests that it wasn't just a case of poor innocent Chechens being oppressed and fighting back. One seldom hears that the "Second Chechen War" was sparked by Chechnya invading neighboring Dagestan.

Of course there were atrocities - war itself is an atrocity.

—

There is no justice. There can be no peace.

Submitted by gjohnsit on Wed, 02/07/2018 - 9:18pm

differences

@TheOtherMaven

"Second Chechen War" was sparked by Chechnya invading neighboring Dagestan.
Of course there were atrocities - war itself is an atrocity.

Actually the second Chechnyan War started with the Moscow apartment bombings, which I believe that Putin was behind.

The second chechnyan war was not just another war. It was horrible, and it's after effects still happen.

Submitted by Pricknick on Wed, 02/07/2018 - 9:37pm

That's where I don't go.

@gjohnsit

Actually the second Chechnyan War started with the Moscow apartment bombings, which I believe that Putin was behind.

The "I believe" needs explaining.
Sounds like a whole new post gjohn. The I believe on belongs to I.

—

Regardless of the path in life I chose, I realize it's always forward, never straight.

Submitted by hecate on Wed, 02/07/2018 - 10:29pm

everyone

@gjohnsit
from rightwing cranks to Washington's Blog agrees the bombings were an FSB operation. And that the subsequent Chechen-blaming frenzy smoothed Putin's move into the presidency, and the prosecution of the second war. But foreknowledge by Putin, according to Soldatov and Borogan, the living people who have researched most such things (others researched as much, or more, but they are now dead), that has not been established.

Submitted by Pluto's Republic on Thu, 02/08/2018 - 2:09am

Not everyone.

@hecate

Just the ones who succumbed to the Neocon narrative.

—

IMAGINE if you woke up the day after a US Presidential Election and headlines around the the world blared, "The Majority of Americans Refused to Vote in US Presidential Election! What Does this Mean?"

Submitted by hecate on Thu, 02/08/2018 - 9:37am

washington's blog

@Pluto's Republic
is neocon? Amusing.

Submitted by CB on Thu, 02/08/2018 - 4:23am

Putin was put in charge of the FSB in July 1998 by Yeltsin.

@hecate
Putin kept his FSB job until 09 August 1999 when Boris Yeltsin made him Acting Prime Minister. His FSB position was given to N P Patrushev who was staunchly anti-American (unlike Putin) and had a much longer relationship with the FSB. Putin had retired from the KGB in 1990 with the rank of lieutenant colonel and was deputy mayor of St. Petersburg from 1991 until 1996.

https://www.biography.com/people/vladimir-putin-9448807

Putin was never the KGB/FSB mastermind his critics have labelled him.

Putin's control over the Chechnya situation in the early years of his Presidency starting in March 2000 was considerably limited. Putin has always worked in slow, reasoned steps and is not prone to make rash decisions. (Look to Syria for verification.)

https://www2.gwu.edu/~ieresgwu/assets/docs/ponars/pm_0345.pdf
Launching the Second War

Putin’s mind-boggling rise to the summit of power is inextricably linked to the start of the Second Chechen War in September 1999, triggered by two terrorist attacks in Moscow. That watershed could be marked as a “Russian 9/11,” and Putin assumed the lead in response to the tragedy. While he publicly took responsibility for launching the military operation to exterminate the terrorists, it is clear that the decision was not his to make. President Boris Yeltsin was still the commander in chief, and it was his team of aids, key ministers, and confidants that had prepared the order. The involvement of Boris Berezovsky is a matter of wild speculation, but it is known that Sergei Stepashin, Putin’s predecessor as prime minister who had significant experience from the first war, was personally involved in preparing the plans for the second one.

The conduct of the operation was very much left to the military, primarily the General Staff. While Defense Minister Igor Sergeev (with his background in Strategic Forces) was quite unenthusiastic about the whole enterprise, the Chief of the General Staff Anatoly Kvashnin gathered a group of combat generals (Konstantin Pulikovsky, Gennady Troshev, Viktor Kazantsev, Vladimir Shamanov) driven hard by the desire to take revenge for the humiliating defeat in 1996. This military cabal demanded and obtained the carte blanche to proceed with victory as they saw fit. The troops moved into Chechnya rather slowly, suppressing every pocket of resistance by massive artillery fire.

Putin, therefore, was placed in the uncomfortable position of assuming full responsibility for a decision he had not made and presiding over an operation he had no possibility to control. Nevertheless, he did the best possible job in this position, making the war into his personal crusade and reassuring the suspicious generals that he was ready to go all the way for a hard-won triumph.
...

The reason the neocon controlled US government hate Putin is because he pulled their Russian prize right from under their noses when they were going in for the kill as the country almost disintegrated in 1999. The first Chechen War was extremely damaging to Russia in both cost and personnel. A second Chechen War at this time had the VERY distinct possibility of pushing the country over the edge. Putin did not need that war to get elected.

Here's a remarkably honest article by the NYT back in 2000:

Russians Vote Under the Spell of Putin's Many Promises

True, Russian nationalism has rocketed since last year's clash with NATO over Yugoslavia put the nation's shrunken role in world affairs on exquisitely painful display. And Russian disdain for Western protests against brutality in Chechnya is a direct reaction to that snub.

But, in fact, said Igor Bunin, who directs the Moscow-based Center for Political Technologies Foundation, ''the deep-seated orientation of Russian society is completely different. It is to enter European civilization.''

''We want to be just as civilized as them, the same kind of civilization as in Europe,'' he said. ''All the sociological polls show that this is the main goal.''

If Russians have a question, it is whether Mr. Putin can keep it after he becomes a democratically elected president, and has to begin making the tough decisions that seem destined to fragment the vast, motley collection of interests that has invested in him so far.

Nonna Oznobikhina, 61, a professor at a Vladivostok teachers' college, says that she and her biologist husband are supporting Mr. Putin ''with great hopes.''

''He does inspire trust,'' she said. ''I like how he behaves in public. There is a certain quiet dignity in him, especially in the way he talks to foreign politicians. But who knows? This is Russia, and he might turn into something unexpected.''

Putin did not disappoint.

http://news.gallup.com/poll/173597/russian-approval-putin-soars-highest-...
Russian Approval of Putin Soars to Highest Level in Years
...
Implications

Recent events raised Russian residents' confidence in their government and various national institutions to their highest points in the past decade. Even with increasing diplomatic isolation and a possible weakening economy with tougher sanctions, the vast majority of Russians will likely give their government full support in whatever course of action it chooses.

Russians' rising approval of their own leadership and China's, along with their record-low approval of the leadership of the U.S. and the EU, underscore the massive divide that exists between Russia and the West. It could take years to restore the relationship between Russia and the West, and will require substantial effort on both sides.

Submitted by CB on Wed, 02/07/2018 - 9:36pm

First look what YELTSIN did to Chechnya

@gjohnsit
with the covert help of the CIA.

What if Putin is Telling the Truth?
15.05.2015 Author: F. William Engdahl

Putin stated bluntly that in his view the West would only be content in having a Russia weak, suffering and begging from the West, something clearly the Russian character is not disposed to. Then a short way into his remarks, the Russian President stated for the first time publicly something that Russian intelligence has known for almost two decades but kept silent until now, most probably in hopes of an era of better normalized Russia-US relations.

Putin stated that the terror in Chechnya and in the Russian Caucasus in the early 1990’s was actively backed by the CIA and western Intelligence services to deliberately weaken Russia. He noted that the Russian FSB foreign intelligence had documentation of the US covert role without giving details.

What Putin, an intelligence professional of the highest order, only hinted at in his remarks, I have documented in detail from non-Russian sources. The report has enormous implications to reveal to the world the long-standing hidden agenda of influential circles in Washington to destroy Russia as a functioning sovereign state, an agenda which includes the neo-nazi coup d’etat in Ukraine and severe financial sanction warfare against Moscow. The following is drawn on my book, “The Lost Hegemon” to be published soon…

Who is Putin?

Understanding Russia, Un-Demonizing Putin
February 6, 2018

Since Vladimir Putin became president of Russia in 2000, there has been a steady barrage of negative press and hostility from the West. With Putin up for reelection this year, Sharon Tennison tries to separate fact from fiction.
...
Yeltsin’s Criminals

In March 2000 I arrived in St. Petersburg. A Russian friend (a psychologist) since 1983 came for our usual visit. My first question was, “Lena what do you think about your new president?” She laughed and retorted, “Volodya! I went to school with him!”
...
My next question was: “What do you think he will do with Yeltsin’s criminals in the Kremlin?”

Putting on her psychologist hat, she contemplated the question and replied that if left to his normal behaviors, Putin would watch them for a while to be sure what was going on, then he would likely throw up some flares to let them know that he was watching. If they didn’t respond, he would address them personally, and if the behaviors still didn’t change, some would probably spend time in prison.

I congratulated her via email when her predictions began to pan out in real time.
...
U.S.-Russian Relations

The U.S. Consul General, Jack Gosnell, had a close relationship with Putin when he was deputy mayor of St. Petersburg. The two of them worked closely to create joint ventures and other ways to promote relations between the two countries. Gosnell related that Putin was always straightforward, courteous and helpful.
...
A senior officer at the Center for Strategic and International Studies whom I was friends with in the 2000s worked closely with Putin on a number of joint ventures during the 1990s. He reported that he had no dealings with Putin that were questionable, that he respected him and believed he was getting an undeserved dour reputation from U.S. media.
...
Another former U.S. official also reported working closely with Putin, saying there was never any hint of bribery, pressuring, nothing but respectable behaviors and helpfulness.
...
The second encounter was a former State Department official with whom I had participated in a radio interview on Russia. Afterward while we were chatting, I remarked, “You might be interested to know that I’ve collected experiences of Putin from numerous people, some over a period of years, and they all say they had no negative experiences with Putin and there was no evidence of taking bribes.”

He firmly replied: “No one has ever been able to come up with a bribery charge against Putin.”
...
Demonization and Reality

From 2001 until today, I’ve watched the U.S. media negatively portray Putin, comparing him to Hitler, and making accusations against him of ordering assassinations and poisonings. Yet no one has come up with any concrete evidence for these allegations.

During this period, I’ve traveled throughout Russia several times every year, and have watched the country slowly change under Putin’s watch. Taxes were lowered, inflation lessened, and laws slowly put in place. Schools and hospitals began improving. Small businesses were growing, agriculture was showing improvement, and stores were becoming stocked with food.

Alcohol controls were strengthened, smoking was banned from buildings, and life expectancy began increasing. Highways were being laid across the country, new rails and modern trains appeared even in far out places, and the banking industry was becoming dependable. Russia was beginning to look like a decent country –– certainly not where Russians hoped it to be long term, but improving incrementally for the first time in their memories.
...
Understanding the Misunderstanding

So why do our leaders and media demean and demonize Putin and Russia? To paraphrase Shakespeare, is it a case of protesting too much?
...
Whether we can answer these questions with any certainty, one thing I am quite sure of is that 99% of those who excoriate Putin in mainstream media have had no personal contact with him at all. They write articles on hearsay, rumors and fabrication, or they read scripts others have written on their tele-prompters. This is how our nation gets its “news,” such as it is.

There is a well-known code of ethics worth bearing in mind: Is it the Truth; Is it Fair; Does it build Friendship and Goodwill; and Will it be Beneficial for All Concerned?

It seems to me that if our nation’s leaders would commit to using these four principles in international relations, the world would operate in a completely different manner, and human beings across this planet would live in better conditions than they do today.

Submitted by Ellen North on Fri, 02/09/2018 - 5:28pm

@CB

@CB

Thanks, that certainly seems to fit with what I've seen televised of Putin being interviewed, etc..

#4.1.1
with the covert help of the CIA.

What if Putin is Telling the Truth?
15.05.2015 Author: F. William Engdahl

Putin stated bluntly that in his view the West would only be content in having a Russia weak, suffering and begging from the West, something clearly the Russian character is not disposed to. Then a short way into his remarks, the Russian President stated for the first time publicly something that Russian intelligence has known for almost two decades but kept silent until now, most probably in hopes of an era of better normalized Russia-US relations.

Putin stated that the terror in Chechnya and in the Russian Caucasus in the early 1990’s was actively backed by the CIA and western Intelligence services to deliberately weaken Russia. He noted that the Russian FSB foreign intelligence had documentation of the US covert role without giving details.

What Putin, an intelligence professional of the highest order, only hinted at in his remarks, I have documented in detail from non-Russian sources. The report has enormous implications to reveal to the world the long-standing hidden agenda of influential circles in Washington to destroy Russia as a functioning sovereign state, an agenda which includes the neo-nazi coup d’etat in Ukraine and severe financial sanction warfare against Moscow. The following is drawn on my book, “The Lost Hegemon” to be published soon…

Who is Putin?

Understanding Russia, Un-Demonizing Putin
February 6, 2018

Since Vladimir Putin became president of Russia in 2000, there has been a steady barrage of negative press and hostility from the West. With Putin up for reelection this year, Sharon Tennison tries to separate fact from fiction.
...
Yeltsin’s Criminals

In March 2000 I arrived in St. Petersburg. A Russian friend (a psychologist) since 1983 came for our usual visit. My first question was, “Lena what do you think about your new president?” She laughed and retorted, “Volodya! I went to school with him!”
...
My next question was: “What do you think he will do with Yeltsin’s criminals in the Kremlin?”

Putting on her psychologist hat, she contemplated the question and replied that if left to his normal behaviors, Putin would watch them for a while to be sure what was going on, then he would likely throw up some flares to let them know that he was watching. If they didn’t respond, he would address them personally, and if the behaviors still didn’t change, some would probably spend time in prison.

I congratulated her via email when her predictions began to pan out in real time.
...
U.S.-Russian Relations

The U.S. Consul General, Jack Gosnell, had a close relationship with Putin when he was deputy mayor of St. Petersburg. The two of them worked closely to create joint ventures and other ways to promote relations between the two countries. Gosnell related that Putin was always straightforward, courteous and helpful.
...
A senior officer at the Center for Strategic and International Studies whom I was friends with in the 2000s worked closely with Putin on a number of joint ventures during the 1990s. He reported that he had no dealings with Putin that were questionable, that he respected him and believed he was getting an undeserved dour reputation from U.S. media.
...
Another former U.S. official also reported working closely with Putin, saying there was never any hint of bribery, pressuring, nothing but respectable behaviors and helpfulness.
...
The second encounter was a former State Department official with whom I had participated in a radio interview on Russia. Afterward while we were chatting, I remarked, “You might be interested to know that I’ve collected experiences of Putin from numerous people, some over a period of years, and they all say they had no negative experiences with Putin and there was no evidence of taking bribes.”

He firmly replied: “No one has ever been able to come up with a bribery charge against Putin.”
...
Demonization and Reality

From 2001 until today, I’ve watched the U.S. media negatively portray Putin, comparing him to Hitler, and making accusations against him of ordering assassinations and poisonings. Yet no one has come up with any concrete evidence for these allegations.

During this period, I’ve traveled throughout Russia several times every year, and have watched the country slowly change under Putin’s watch. Taxes were lowered, inflation lessened, and laws slowly put in place. Schools and hospitals began improving. Small businesses were growing, agriculture was showing improvement, and stores were becoming stocked with food.

Alcohol controls were strengthened, smoking was banned from buildings, and life expectancy began increasing. Highways were being laid across the country, new rails and modern trains appeared even in far out places, and the banking industry was becoming dependable. Russia was beginning to look like a decent country –– certainly not where Russians hoped it to be long term, but improving incrementally for the first time in their memories.
...
Understanding the Misunderstanding

So why do our leaders and media demean and demonize Putin and Russia? To paraphrase Shakespeare, is it a case of protesting too much?
...
Whether we can answer these questions with any certainty, one thing I am quite sure of is that 99% of those who excoriate Putin in mainstream media have had no personal contact with him at all. They write articles on hearsay, rumors and fabrication, or they read scripts others have written on their tele-prompters. This is how our nation gets its “news,” such as it is.

There is a well-known code of ethics worth bearing in mind: Is it the Truth; Is it Fair; Does it build Friendship and Goodwill; and Will it be Beneficial for All Concerned?

It seems to me that if our nation’s leaders would commit to using these four principles in international relations, the world would operate in a completely different manner, and human beings across this planet would live in better conditions than they do today.

—

Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.

A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.

Submitted by MrWebster on Wed, 02/07/2018 - 5:42pm

"people need to take to the streets"

@snoopydawg If you protest, they will come. I have read bizzare injunctions on TOP that people should be ready to take it to the streets over this whole Russiagate thing. One front pager said get ready to take it to the street if Trump fired some Asst. AG Rod Somebody. Yah, free Rod the the six-figure Harvard lawyer!!!

The truth of the matter as has been shown by surveys and reports is that the average American does not give a shit about Russiagate, as they can see nothing in their lives that Russia has made worse. If the democrats did try to organize marches based on Russiagate, they will be lucky if local media covers it.

At this point the whole Russiagate has become a delusional cult.

Submitted by gjohnsit on Wed, 02/07/2018 - 5:51pm

Can you see this one coming?

@MrWebster
People protesting for Trump's impeachment.
Things get out of hand.
The cops hurt someone(s).

Now TOP has a martyr. Putin is oppressing us!

Submitted by snoopydawg on Wed, 02/07/2018 - 6:40pm

Delusional Cult indeed

@MrWebster

Heh, as usual Caitlyn nails what those who used to question the intelligence agencies and describes what they have become.

Look at the worldview of the average person who identifies as a liberal and you’ll find adoration of psychopathic authoritarian intelligence agencies like the CIA and the FBI, a significantly warmed opinion of George W Bush and the neocons he ushered into power, a total apathy toward the US war machine and Orwellian surveillance network, a seething hatred of all things Russia and a hysterical McCarthyite beef with anyone who fails to fall in line with approved establishment narratives. They have become the very flag-waving, authority-cheerleading, art-killing oppressive zealots that the counterculture of the 1960s burst free from like a drowning man finally getting his head above water and clawing his way onto the shore.

All because the Clinton Creature didn't win. I've wanted to ask them how they would react if Trump had lost instead and he was blaming it on illegal immigrants. I'm sure you can imagine how that would go over on ToP. They are very upset that Trump hasn't enforced the sanctions on Russia. Hmm, wasn't there a time when they abhorred sanctions because of the damage they did to innocent people? So far I haven't seen how they feel about the N. Korean sanctions.

—

There were problems with running a campaign of Joy while committing a genocide? Who could have guessed?

Harris is unburdened of speaking going forward.

Submitted by TheOtherMaven on Wed, 02/07/2018 - 8:30pm

Server down, apparently

@snoopydawg
How conveenient - for somebody!

Edit: she also posted it on Medium.com: https://medium.com/@caityjohnstone/modern-liberals-are-1950s-authoritari...

—

There is no justice. There can be no peace.

Submitted by travelerxxx on Wed, 02/07/2018 - 9:29pm

She's getting more exposure

@TheOtherMaven

Caity is also now on steemit.

I think she got rather pissed at FB attempting to shut her up and decided diverse platforms were a good idea.

Submitted by Pluto's Republic on Thu, 02/08/2018 - 11:18am

She posts at Washington's Blog, too.

@travelerxxx

—

IMAGINE if you woke up the day after a US Presidential Election and headlines around the the world blared, "The Majority of Americans Refused to Vote in US Presidential Election! What Does this Mean?"

Submitted by CB on Wed, 02/07/2018 - 11:37pm

DKos has become a delusional cult

@MrWebster
It is slowly sinking into oblivion.
DKos nose dive.jpg

I firmly believe DKos's behavior during the last election exemplifies why HER lost the election. If they continue what they are now doing, they will only help the Democrats lose in the midterms. I sincerely doubt they can clean up their act in time.

Submitted by Lily O Lady on Thu, 02/08/2018 - 11:15am

But, but, but, they’re persisting! /s

@CB

—

"The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power. Now do you begin to understand me?" ~Orwell, "1984"

Submitted by Deja on Sat, 02/10/2018 - 12:50am

And "evolving" (can't call snark) just like Her has n/t

@Lily O Lady

Submitted by divineorder on Wed, 02/07/2018 - 5:39pm

Fck #1 climate criminal #ExxonKnew.

Heh.

Reagan:

Illegally sold arms to Iranian mullahs
Funded death squads in Central America
Ignored the AIDS crisis because it was only gay men & Africans dying
Repeatedly railed against "welfare queens" with "Cadillacs"
Supported apartheid South Africa & called Mandela a "terrorist" https://t.co/Hin5FssGfd

— Glenn Greenwald (@ggreenwald) February 6, 2018

—

A truth of the nuclear age/climate change: we can no longer have endless war and survive on this planet. Oh sh*t.

Submitted by snoopydawg on Wed, 02/07/2018 - 6:45pm

Has Hamilton 68 decided that Russia is pushing that tweet?

@divineorder

This is the group that was formed after the ~~Russian interference~~ elections which keeps track of trending tweets to see if it's Russian bots who are pushing for their exposure.

(see the Alligator's essay on them)

—

There were problems with running a campaign of Joy while committing a genocide? Who could have guessed?

Harris is unburdened of speaking going forward.

Submitted by gjohnsit on Wed, 02/07/2018 - 8:43pm

Russia debate

You may want to jump ahead 25 minutes.
Kyle owned him.

Submitted by Pluto's Republic on Thu, 02/08/2018 - 1:50am

No. I have no patience for this.

@gjohnsit

Cenk needs to show us on the doll where Putin touched him. And Kyle is definitely the dumb to Cenk’s dumber. He looks reasonable because Cenk is hopeless. Ugh. They're both Orcs. Wrong from the foundation-up. Wrong for the nation. Wrong for the world. What a turn off.

I'm dismayed they exist in public where their grunting can be heard, tainting the term "progressive" forever more.

—

IMAGINE if you woke up the day after a US Presidential Election and headlines around the the world blared, "The Majority of Americans Refused to Vote in US Presidential Election! What Does this Mean?"

Submitted by gjohnsit on Thu, 02/08/2018 - 11:30am

I think you are being hard on Kyle

@Pluto's Republic
I thought he did a good job hitting all the points.
Especially since he had to deal with Cenk's idiocy.

Submitted by Pluto's Republic on Thu, 02/08/2018 - 3:15pm

He managed to claw his way to the center

@gjohnsit

...of every argument while insisting that "Putin is a thug" so we would like him. Kyle positioned himself to be the lesser of two evils, which qualifies him to run for office some day.

I ran out of patience. Plus, I watched and watched. Nyet.

—

IMAGINE if you woke up the day after a US Presidential Election and headlines around the the world blared, "The Majority of Americans Refused to Vote in US Presidential Election! What Does this Mean?"

Submitted by gjohnsit on Thu, 02/08/2018 - 3:39pm

Consider this

@Pluto's Republic
Could you have been so patient and diplomatic as Kyle was while dealing with Cenk's stupidity?
I don't think so.

We are both removed from the debate. Kyle had a chance at pushing back at the Scary Russia meme with a crowd that was receptive to hearing logic.
Thus it was important to sound "reasonable" in order to get them to hear actual reason.

Submitted by Pluto's Republic on Fri, 02/09/2018 - 10:23am

@gjohnsit

@gjohnsit @gjohnsit

Could you have been so patient and diplomatic as Kyle was while dealing with Cenk's stupidity?
I don't think so.

You know me well.

I see your point. Kyle was playing to a tough crowd. He had to mimic their sweaty fever dreams to sound credible and NLP their talking points to get them to listen.

That works. He kept the dialogue open. It took effort and discipline on Kyles part. He listened and he spoke well. He eased into the points of contention. such as they were.

On a style note, perhaps Kyle should have pretended he was stoked about the Superbowl when Cenk invited him to get all mano a mano about it as an ice-breaker. On content, the big agreement seems to be that "Trump did money laundering." A fallback position repeated throughout. At the same time, I got the feeling that neither of them knew what "money laundering" technically is, beyond buying and selling expensive stuff. Glad I took another look.

—

IMAGINE if you woke up the day after a US Presidential Election and headlines around the the world blared, "The Majority of Americans Refused to Vote in US Presidential Election! What Does this Mean?"

Submitted by Pricknick on Wed, 02/07/2018 - 7:56pm

Nice post gjohn

Had to fix it though because it's everywhere.

Dirty politics ~~south of the border~~

Thanks as always.

—

Regardless of the path in life I chose, I realize it's always forward, never straight.

Submitted by Pluto's Republic on Wed, 02/07/2018 - 9:16pm

Trade between Mexico and Russia is on fire.

Up more than 40 percent last year. Mexico is the 13th largest economy in the world in nominal terms. The US may disrespect Mexico with its policy of overt racism, but both Russia and China can do the math.

After talks last fall with Russia, Mexico may soon start manufacturing Russian helicopters. Moscow wants to supply helicopters to Mexico for both military and civilian purposes. Mexican company Craft Avia Center plans to buy up to 15 Ansat helicopters by 2020.

Meanwhile, Mexican airline Interjet has expressed interest in acquiring Russian MS-21 aircraft. Interjet is the second largest operator of the SSJ100 airliner after Russia's Aeroflot. It has been operating a fleet of 22 planes since 2013.

Mexico's new reform program is meant to open the country up to outside oil investment for the first time since 1938, when the Mexican government took control of the country's oil industry and sidelined foreign investments. The reforms could bring in up to $415 billion in investments over the next 20 years as the country establishes links to the rest of the world.

Mexico attended the BRICS last fall. Mexican President Enrique Peña Nieto met in China with Russian President Vladimir Putin on the sidelines of a summit for the five major energy economies: Brazil, Russia, India, China and South Africa. According to the Kremlin, both sides discussed ways to improve ties on the geopolitical front and trade in the energy sector.

Energy Minister Alexander Novak and Igor Sechin, a close Putin ally and head of Russian oil company Rosneft, were at the meeting with Mexico's president.

Meanwhile, Trump is whining that the US got a bad deal with NAFTA and want to renegotiate. Plus, Mexico is not paying its fair share for the wall to keep Mexicans out. So Mexico is coddling the US trantum, while expanding its global presence elsewhere.

The US State Department. Tone deaf as always. No mystery to what the panic is about. Dollar hegemony is coming to an end. Mexico and Russia and doing bilateral trade outside the Dollar. Empire is over.

https://www.upi.com/Mexico-Russia-eye-energy-trade-relations/1231504609926/

This week, while his country is renegotiating the North American Free Trade Agreement, Mexican President Enrique Peña Nieto was in China to pursue his country’s Plan B. Rumblings of a free-trade deal between the two nations have grown since President Trump took office this year, but they’ve mostly been seen as political posturing. But with Trump threatening regularly to dump the deal—even taking time last Sunday, during Hurricane Harvey, to say he “may have to terminate” NAFTA—the possibility of Mexico opening up to China seems ever more real.

Trump’s stated goal to end NAFTA is to raise tariffs and incentivize U.S. companies to stop outsourcing jobs. Whether or not that will work is a separate matter, but what he has done is to push Mexico, which counts the U.S. as its largest trading partner by far, into pursuing other options.

https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2017/09/mexcio-nafta-p...

Here comes the election meddling, right on schedule. The US means to topple Mexico's government, and install its own Mexican puppets. US National Security demands no less.

—

IMAGINE if you woke up the day after a US Presidential Election and headlines around the the world blared, "The Majority of Americans Refused to Vote in US Presidential Election! What Does this Mean?"

Submitted by snoopydawg on Wed, 02/07/2018 - 9:34pm

Ayup

@Pluto's Republic

Can't have one of our vassal states moving on and working with Russia and China now can we?

Joe posted this tonight in the EBs.

In today’s rapidly shifting world scene the US is arguably more upset than any other major country by the nature and speed of strategic global shifts in power. Blame games are rife in Washington. The U.S. had grown used to being in the driver’s seat of the world order that it engineered since the end of World War II. It seems almost inconceivable to most Americans—and to some foreigners who grew up in that same environment—to imagine a world in which the U.S. is no longer the architect or the supreme arbiter of that global order.

With the world leaders dislike of the Trump, they are looking more into what's in their interests for their countries without having to take orders from the U.S.

China has used diplomacy and worked with countries for their resources, while we've used threats and invasions to get/take what we want.

Up more than 40 percent last year. Mexico is the 13th largest economy in the world in nominal terms. The US may disrespect Mexico with its policy of overt racism, but both Russia and China can do the math.

After talks last fall with Russia, Mexico may soon start manufacturing Russian helicopters. Moscow wants to supply helicopters to Mexico for both military and civilian purposes. Mexican company Craft Avia Center plans to buy up to 15 Ansat helicopters by 2020.

Meanwhile, Mexican airline Interjet has expressed interest in acquiring Russian MS-21 aircraft. Interjet is the second largest operator of the SSJ100 airliner after Russia's Aeroflot. It has been operating a fleet of 22 planes since 2013.

Mexico's new reform program is meant to open the country up to outside oil investment for the first time since 1938, when the Mexican government took control of the country's oil industry and sidelined foreign investments. The reforms could bring in up to $415 billion in investments over the next 20 years as the country establishes links to the rest of the world.

Mexico attended the BRICS last fall. Mexican President Enrique Peña Nieto met in China with Russian President Vladimir Putin on the sidelines of a summit for the five major energy economies: Brazil, Russia, India, China and South Africa. According to the Kremlin, both sides discussed ways to improve ties on the geopolitical front and trade in the energy sector.

Energy Minister Alexander Novak and Igor Sechin, a close Putin ally and head of Russian oil company Rosneft, were at the meeting with Mexico's president.

Meanwhile, Trump is whining that the US got a bad deal with NAFTA and want to renegotiate. Plus, Mexico is not paying its fair share for the wall to keep Mexicans out. So Mexico is coddling the US trantum, while expanding its global presence elsewhere.

The US State Department. Tone deaf as always. No mystery to what the panic is about. Dollar hegemony is coming to an end. Mexico and Russia and doing bilateral trade outside the Dollar. Empire is over.

https://www.upi.com/Mexico-Russia-eye-energy-trade-relations/1231504609926/

This week, while his country is renegotiating the North American Free Trade Agreement, Mexican President Enrique Peña Nieto was in China to pursue his country’s Plan B. Rumblings of a free-trade deal between the two nations have grown since President Trump took office this year, but they’ve mostly been seen as political posturing. But with Trump threatening regularly to dump the deal—even taking time last Sunday, during Hurricane Harvey, to say he “may have to terminate” NAFTA—the possibility of Mexico opening up to China seems ever more real.

Trump’s stated goal to end NAFTA is to raise tariffs and incentivize U.S. companies to stop outsourcing jobs. Whether or not that will work is a separate matter, but what he has done is to push Mexico, which counts the U.S. as its largest trading partner by far, into pursuing other options.

https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2017/09/mexcio-nafta-p...

Here comes the election meddling, right on schedule. The US means to topple Mexico's government, and install its own Mexican puppets. US National Security demands no less.

—

There were problems with running a campaign of Joy while committing a genocide? Who could have guessed?

Harris is unburdened of speaking going forward.

Submitted by CB on Thu, 02/08/2018 - 2:35am

China was filling coffers while America filled coffins.

@snoopydawg
China’s GDP will overtake the U.S. level in 2028. Their GDP-PPP surpassed the US back in 2015 and they will surpass US consumer spending this year.

American world hegemony will be coming to an end within the next decade. The new world order will be multi-polar. Hopefully, the un-elected ass-hats that run the US power structure won't have a hissy fit and start dropping nukes in a futile attempt to keep the defunct empire in power. The US has to learn how to become an equal among equals.

Submitted by TheOtherMaven on Thu, 02/08/2018 - 8:30am

We've never been good at that

@CB
We're too accustomed to being the Biggest Bully on the Block.

—

There is no justice. There can be no peace.