Democratic State Party Arse holes
At first, I could see human error coming into play. The second time, er, I still was not convinced. I just distrust CT after being burned by one some years ago. But after then 3d, 4th, 5th, etc., example, you have to set aside any uncertainty and realize just how rigged the game has become.
Case in point. People were reporting that things were cod, sole, grouper, and bass in the Colorado delegate counting. You know. Fishy. Not knowing anything about the details of their process, and having no vote that I know of (or will admit to in public) in that rocky, mountainous, High State, I took a wait, sit, and see approach.
Here's the story. It encapsulates the artificial hurdles that Hillarians, DWS clones from the DNC, and others have erected to keep the people's choice out of office.
Bernie Sanders won one more delegate in Colorado than first projected after the Colorado Democratic Party admitted this week that it misreported the March 1 caucus results from 10 precinct locations.
The error — first uncovered by The Denver Post — was shared with rival Hillary Clinton's campaign by party officials but kept from Sanders until the Post told his staff Monday night. The mistake is a minor shift with major implications. The new projection now shows the Vermont senator winning 39 delegates in Colorado, compared to 27 for Clinton.
Even if Clinton wins all 12 superdelegates in the state, Sanders can finish no worse than a split decision. It contrasts with prior projections from the Post, Bloomberg Politics and The Associated Press that indicated Clinton would probably win the majority of the 78 delegates in Colorado because of her support from party leaders with superdelegate status.
http://www.denverpost.com/election/ci_29755029/colorado-democrats-admit-...
If not for some ethical people holding positions in the Denver Post, if not for the digging and complaints that seem so obviously correct in retrospect, does anyone doubt that this "error," reported to Camp Hillary immediately, would have made the light of day?
FIVE BLOODY WEEKS AFTER THEY TOLD CAMP HILLARY THAT THEY FUCKED UP IN HER FAVOR, they reluctantly admit their error to Bernie's team? FIVE BLOODY WEEKS? Heck, on edit, they never notified Bernie. The POST notified Bernie.
Come on, that smell test fails so badly that mustard gas resembles a rose's scent.
On Edit. I mistakenly thought that some angel in the CDP called his campaign. They never did. It was the Post.
Comments
Sadly....
nothing is really surprising me anymore....
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First Nations News
This is why I shake my head at the people who still believe that
any D, even Hillary Clinton--who, with Bill, shaped the current Democratic Party as it is--would be better than any R. If we need to hit bottom to rise up, why do that with someone like Hillary Clinton, who's demonstrated weak to disastrous judgment and lack of a consistent moral center throughout her life in the public eye? Who has shown time and again that she'll do anything, say anything to win?
"It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society." --Jiddu Krishnamurti
My partner is running on Saturday
to be chosen as a State delegate for Bernie Sanders. She is a 'precinct captain' in our County in Arizona. She will be voted for by other 'pc's. All of the old, established 'pc's are, of course, Hillary supporters. All of the newly nominated pcs are Bernie supporters. The names went to the County Board of Supervisors last month for their approval (why does the CBS have to approve them? dunno). Except, oops, they forgot to put it on the agenda. One of the nominees came by a couple days ago, worried that she hadn't gotten her confirmation letter. Partner called the county Dem Party leader..."oh, she's fine...she's on this list." This morning, "oops, she's not fine, the CBS neglected to approve her and two more new applicants" (Bernie supporters).
"I’m a human being, first and foremost, and as such I’m for whoever and whatever benefits humanity as a whole.” —Malcolm X
so are they going to fix it? - n/t
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First Nations News
Nope, it would have to be done at the next CBS meeting
some date after Saturday. "So sorry."
"I’m a human being, first and foremost, and as such I’m for whoever and whatever benefits humanity as a whole.” —Malcolm X
Oh! I would be raising SUCH a stink!
Perhaps report it to a local newspaper/station?
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First Nations News
Know anyone in the local media?
this is something a young aggressive reporter likes to sink their baby teeth into.
and yes, there still are ethical, investigative reporters.
We do know a good local reporter.
My Partner (who WAS approved, months ago) is debating that, but looking at other options, too. All very fluid right at the moment, so I'm just going to let her sort it out. (She is Pissed!)
"I’m a human being, first and foremost, and as such I’m for whoever and whatever benefits humanity as a whole.” —Malcolm X
Might want to send an email to
The Young Turks... or facebook the story there? https://www.facebook.com/TheYoungTurks/
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First Nations News
yes!
excellent idea
Heard that Rove working for Hillary
From the people here in Columbus OH who have spent over a decade on election integrity
The set up in AZ was out of the 2004 playbook in OH led by Karl Rove
These local people have been trying for over a decade put Karl Rove in jail
Election tampering is a felony and Karl continues his work
Crimes were committed
in AZ. I don't expect to ever see indictments, because everyone involved had to be in on it, and there's no pressure on anyone to rat out the rest.
The good Christian should beware of mathematicians. The danger already exists that mathematicians have made a covenant with the devil to darken the spirit and confine man in the bonds of Hell. -- St. Augustine of Hippo
Crossposted from the KFS
Crossposted from the KFS subreddit: Yup. When Sanders won the Douglas County CO caucuses by a significant margin, and then at the county convention we delegates found out that the delegate split moving forward had been predesignated 110 HRC to 97 Sanders before we even got into the room to vote on it, that pretty well iced it for me. "That's how caucuses are", my ass. Last time I waste my time on that: that's 5 hours of my life that I won't get back. I'm one of many first time caucus participants who will very likely not participate in the future. There were a lot of first timers like me who were not at all pleased with the process.
I understand they they are considering scrapping the caucus system and going to a primary. Well, that'd be *great*- as long as it is counted by the (hopefully nonpartisan) county clerks, and not the party insider apparatchiks. If the party insiders count the votes, I doubt that I'll bother there, either. Voting truly doesn't matter if the counters can manufacture any numbers that please themselves. As if you couldn't tell, I'm feeling extremely cynical at this point after the Wyoming ballot box stuffings.
Maybe the HRC folks will forget to show up this weekend. I'm really not looking forward to the outcome of the state convention: there are too many opportunities for mischief.
What a swamp ...
... with alligators. Good on you for putting in those 5 hours. And no, they were not wasted. We here got to hear what happened from you - and since the Denver Post found out, at few more people will have read about it, and since they are by definition interested in politics, they may share it with a few more. Perhaps it'll create a few more Bernie supporters, perhaps they manage to fix a few of these @#$%@#$% dirty tricks. Perhaps not - but no, it wasn't wasted!
And once you've banged your head against a wall a few times and feel better, please don't give up! The other side won't, ever. You have just realized that this is only the beginning of the fight - and it never ends.
Gandalf and Saruman unite, demand to bring back Greywolfe359!
martha pearce-smith has an excellent suggestion
(upthread, in response to another comment) about sending your story/rant/piece to the young turks via email. they'd probably be interested in it.
if the DNC was running in the free market system
and they ran a business this way, it was being absolutely corrupt and dishonest, that designates it as a racketeering influenced and corrupt organization.
surprise, criminals get assigned to government jobs, then they are transformed into entrenched bureaucrats and the public must worship them as part of the great american way of good governance. this is a trend i've been observing for many years.
the more fashionable word, crony capitalism, this system is at the polar opposite of a democratic socialist society where money doesn't buy votes, among other good and wholesome things.
Shenanigans in Texas, too
I've bellyached about it here previously. I think Bernie won 3 counties in the state (we have 300+ counties), and he absolutely won Travis County where Austin is, but not by much. Texas is a state whose Dem party joined with Hillary Victory Fund last fall - I'd like to know why. We had too few ATTENDEES at our county convention to fill all the delegate spots we have for state, so everyone who attended was automatically made a delegate. There were more Hillary supporters at the county convention (which was held during spring break and SXSW, so, surprise! we were short on Millennials - that actually was not a dirty trick, just an unfortunate coincidence for Bernie supporters). But they suspended the rules in the biggest senate district in order to not go through the usual delegate-selection process, and then the Nominations committee was obviated. The decision made in that senate district was imposed on the rest of us without vote or full awareness of what transpired... And now the whole process of considering as alternates those who did not attend is being done by the party and not by the nominations committee.
Oh, I left out the part where they pretty much ignored the nominations to the committees from the Bernie campaign. For the nominations committee, TWO of the recommendations made the list, am fairly certain the other TEN people on the committee were all Hillary supporters, meaning that there were no Bernie supporters from the three much smaller senate districts.
It was an end-run around us. It's going to happen again at State. We're meeting tomorrow, hopefully to have some strategy to do something. Like others in this thread, have seriously been considering dropping out of politics since this is how it's driven.
I did not mention today already that in 2008 we had 8500 attendees at the county convention. This year, it was under 1000, best I can figure. Not sure how the party thinks that enthusiasm gap is going to help turn Texas blue. And, Oh, I didn't even get into here how the DNC did away with the Texas Two-Step. We formerly had a hybrid system with party voting, part caucusing, but in 2008, Hillary won the vote portion (so she claimed she won the state on that day). It took nearly four months for the caucuses/convention to play out, and in the end, Texas went to Obama, because, of course, he ruled the caucus portion. So, the DNC retracted the waiver they had previously given to Texas for the hybrid system in order to keep that from a repeat this year.
Talk about a fishy smell!
'What we are left with is an agency mandated to ensure transparency and disclosure that is actually working to keep the public in the dark' - Ann M. Ravel, former FEC member
fishy smell
We're entering into surströmming smell territory here, methinks!
"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar
"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides
My son...
Is a state delegate for Bernie for the CO state convention this Saturday. There have been some dodgy things coming from the state Democratic Party where he has been told that he is 'not needed'. I've told him to keep in close contact with the Bernie campaign. He got is official delegate letter last week. Part of it is that the whole process is f'd up. But that allows the party establishment to monkey with the process. But at least it isn't as bad as the GOP side of the house for Colorado. That is completely undemocratic.
Democrats, we tried to warn you. How is that guilt and shame working out?
A small, crooked smile ...
Yeah, the GOP side in Colorado is the one thing that makes the Dem apparatus look fair and competent (let go of me! LET GO! I said only 'by comparison', and to give everyone a small reason to smile in this whole stinking business). I saw this on TOP (Abbreviated Pundit Roundup):
Benjy Sarlin for MSNBC.
Gandalf and Saruman unite, demand to bring back Greywolfe359!
One man, one vote...
All this delegate bullshit is bullshit.
"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon
Indeed.
"I’m a human being, first and foremost, and as such I’m for whoever and whatever benefits humanity as a whole.” —Malcolm X
Absolutely!!!
One Person. One Vote.
I can't even begin to explain the hypocrisy of our voting system to my adult son who is autistic and has signed up to help the Sanders Peeps get people registered to vote.
So many are not voting and are apathetic about voting simply because they know... their votes don't actually count.
I've stood in line to vote in California while the news announced the winner one too many times. I understand why so many are disenchanted. We need to change the system completely.
I didn't realize how much BS was involved until I went to the Bernie campaign training and heard all this talk of delegates this and super delegates that....
"Love One Another" ~ George Harrison
can we assign two for one in Chicago?
Just for historical purposes?
Things have got to change.
The establishment is being exposed over and over again, this primary election. I think that's a good thing. These things have been going on for many years, but when all you have are establishment candidates, not much information gets out. This time, with Bernie in the mix, they are being exposed for the liars and cheats they truly are. Elections are about them and their chance to continue in their power-hungry jobs. For Bernie, the election is about us and we need to take that gauntlet and run with it. We must prevail in our desire and attempt to effect change in our country. With Bernie in office, we might have the chance to make elections fair for all, as they are supposed to be.
"The “jumpers” reminded us that one day we will all face only one choice and that is how we will die, not how we will live." Chris Hedges on 9/11
Depending on how the primary shakes out
It's time, again. The people that need to get it still aren't. It is time to put boots on the ground in cities all across this country. As in "occupy". It has to be large enough that any coordinated tag-team suppression in retaliation is too messy to be ignored by the press.
The Democrats and their rigged system
http://vetsforbernie.org/2016/04/joe-scarborough-rigged-system-democrati...
We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when we are afraid of the light.
--Plato
PR/STV voting instead of First-Past-the-Post
BTW
Some young people on Reddit are cautiously asking about a third party if Bernie is cheated out of the nomination. I always send them a link to Shispak's post, A path to a different sort of victory, and tell them to check out both the essay and the comment thread.
When even Republicans are bitching about the corruption of the Democratic bureaucracy, you know we have troubles.
Life is strong. I'm weak, but Life is strong.
What if Bernie is cheated out of the nom?
Well, it's sure understandable and everyone should vote their conscience. I've got to say that for current circumstances, my conscience tells me to bite my tongue and vote for hmmm whoever the eventual Dem nominee is in the General. Just imagine what a President Cruz or Trump would do for the Supreme Court.
You say it's hypocritical to first denounce Hillary's closeness to Wall Street, foreign policy hawkishness, dirty campaign tactics, and then ask to vote for her? Consider Lindsey Graham, who said nobody would convict the murderer on the Senate floor if Ted Cruz was the victim. And now he has endorsed him. Hee hee a real strong argument for Hillary here, right?
A more serious one, to those who say a candidate needs to 'earn their vote'. A generation of children affected by the next President's SCOTUS appointments, actions on Climate Change etc, will thank you if you can drop your high-mindedness for once and vote for the best available and viable alternative.
And this may mean not the same person in the Primary as in the General.
Eg the Greens have my whole sympathy, and Dr Jill Stein is terrific. But they are not viable in the General - until they start winning Congressional seats, mayorships, state legislatures ... they don't count as viable. So I would support them for down ballot races, especially if a particularly bad Democrat needs to be cut loose.
Gandalf and Saruman unite, demand to bring back Greywolfe359!
There is a hair's breath of difference between Hillary & Kasich
Please note this is not directed to you.
How can I ethically support someone so devious, secretive (except when sharing Top Secret info from the NSA with an ass like Sidney Blumenthal) and having little or no history of exhibiting and using sound judgment.
She deliberately screwed up Libya. She deliberately had Nuland do the dirty for her in the Ukraine, and in the process managed to make an enemy of Putin because of her planned provocation. What she did to Honduras was criminal. Her self dealing with the Saudis probably breaks several laws and almost surely State Department protocals, while enriching herself immensely through their (ahem) Foundation. Her speechifactory fees can only be viewed logically and rationally, ignoring her ridiculous non-answers on the issue.
The reason she refuses to release the texts of her whoring speeches is one of two choices.
A. Her speeches were so lame and obviously bought, that everyone would conclude that it was a bribe.
B. If there were significant, substantive issues, I would guarantee it involved promising Wall that she would have their back against some socialist like Bernie.
particularly bad Democrats
No offense intended to you, cminus, but when do we get to declare our independence from this little bit of the establishment's hostage-taking terrorism, and vote our consciences for once rather than "lesser evil as usual"?
And I have little or no confidence on the SCOTUS issue anymore, not with Hillary. She's going to have so much baggage if she gets the nom that our concerns and desires will be meaningless. Should she get elected to the Presidency, she'll nominate the same lawyers to SCOTUS that any other Republican would, because it's them -- and their masters, of course -- who she'll still be owing the store to once the election is over. We "little people" will be long forgotten as of the second our general election votes are safely tabulated.
Hillary Clinton and her fellow Third Way, Dixiecrat, and Blue Dog "Democrats" (in name only) are the "bad Democrats who need to be cut loose", to quote your very own words.
All of them!
"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar
"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides
If they have rigged the Party
against 'insurgent' (honest) candidates, then there is no hope of reforming the Party from the inside, from the ground up. That's why they keep an iron-fisted control over the Party, to prevent any honest candidates from ever getting o the ballot.
So the only way will be to fracture the Party. It is pretty plain this year that there is enough support in the electorate for a genuinely populist 'people's party' that promises to restore honest government for the 99%. The Democratic Party will keep hemorrhaging members regardless, until they're an irrelevant Party of rich liberals in California and NYC, with almost no power at the national level. If you look at a map, they're pretty close to that already.
The good Christian should beware of mathematicians. The danger already exists that mathematicians have made a covenant with the devil to darken the spirit and confine man in the bonds of Hell. -- St. Augustine of Hippo
Coincidence, accidents, mistakes and misunderstandings
would not consistently favor one candidate. I don't think it's CT to say someone has their thumbs on the scales.
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It's establishment
I think in some cases we absolutely have CT going on because: David Brock.
But, it doesn't require just CT. The structure is already set up to support establishment candidates.
If all the candidates are establishment, all the little shenanigans tend to even out and there's no CT. But, if you have a nonestablishment candidate, all of the people who are already part of the party will, on their own, do things to support the establishment candidate and all of those little peoples' actions accumulate to significantly support the establishment candidate and significantly disadvantage the anti-establishment candidate.
I really think some alternative journalist needs to fully compile, research, document all of the shenanigans, distinguishing CT from systemic and from individual actions. Then bombard social media and the internet with the truth of the broken system - but also offer solutions. Because if you just portray the problems without solutions, it makes people feel hopeless and they'll give up, but if you give solutions, that gives them something they can do, to work on, to fight for.
It goes beyond just taking money out of the system. But also solutions to obviate the problems of systemic bias toward establishment candidates, and the actions of individuals in election fraud.
-9.75, -8.21
That is asking a lot from a journalist
I can see one or more identifying the real 'stop' points for a non-establishment candidate. Show where the fix comes in. But someone else has to be able to devise solutions right on top of it, to be released simultaneously to separate investigation from solutions. Just my naive thoughts.
Unless it were from someone of the stature of Bill Moyers.
Hey! my dear friends or soon-to-be's, JtC could use the donations to keep this site functioning for those of us who can still see the life preserver or flotsam in the water.
Green Party
The Green Party has invited disappointed Bernie supporters to join them
https://www.facebook.com/GreenPartyUS/
Life is strong. I'm weak, but Life is strong.
still hoping to not be
disappointed...but if Bernie does not get the nomination, I will go right back to being a Green.
"I’m a human being, first and foremost, and as such I’m for whoever and whatever benefits humanity as a whole.” —Malcolm X
If It Ain't Bernie, It's Green for Me
Aging Lefty, I agree that the Greens are the best fall back position if Bernie doesn't get the nomination. We have the chance of making the Green Party a third party force with which to challenge what's left of the Democratic and Republican parties. Clearly the Dems and Repubs are out-of-sync with the majority of the citizenry and are ripe to be supplanted if they don't reform.
But until Bernie loses, I'm still working for his nomination.
-Greed is not a virtue.
-Socialism: the radical idea of sharing.
-Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable.
John F. Kennedy, In a speech at the White House, 1962
I've never been a Green. How
I've never been a Green. How do you think they would feel about Bernie taking Dr. Jill Stein's ballot spots, and the good doctor sliding over to VP?
Against Trump and Clinton in a general, the Greens could win.
GradySeasons
"The nightlife ain't no good life, but it's my life."
the hillbot response is ....well, a bit annoying
basically it's "wow, one whole delegate!" or "Hillary lost here so what's the big deal?"
They either can't grasp the concept that the Clinton campaign got told about it but not Sanders'. Or else they just don't care.
It's another moment where, if I'd been neutral, I'd have made up my mind to never vote for Hills.
they are trying to put their spin on it ...
as best they can. Part of me can even understand that. But still, is it so hard to see that a short apology, no ifs or buts, would do a lot more to put such an affair to rest, unite the Left (who is it again that always calls for unity, and supporting the 'eventual nominee' - almost would have typed 'presumptive nominee' H... but stopped myself just in time, phew!).
Not telling the other campaign about such a screwup just reeks of trying to get away with it, 'maybe nobody noticed'.
And since they - of course! - had no such nefarious motives (right?!), they would not have lost anything by telling the Sanders campaign right away.
Grrrr.
And I am about to write a comment why we should still bite our tongues and vote for Her in the General, not Green!
Gandalf and Saruman unite, demand to bring back Greywolfe359!
Reply to your GRRRR.
Cminus, On March 10 I wrote a short essay on c99 entitled "Lesser of Two Evils" in which I make a case for not voting for Hillary if Bernie doesn't get the nomination. It doesn't belong in this thread, but if you would like to see a viewpoint opposite to yours, please look it up. It also contains comments from at least one person who agrees with you. Can't hurt unless you bite after you growl.
-Greed is not a virtue.
-Socialism: the radical idea of sharing.
-Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable.
John F. Kennedy, In a speech at the White House, 1962
Why can't Bernie sue over
Why can't Bernie sue over this crap. It is blatant. get those people out of their positions, force them to resign, and flood the process with Bernie activists to take the spots.
Easy for me to say.
GradySeasons
"The nightlife ain't no good life, but it's my life."
Was already disillusioned by the party...
But Ralph Nader's recent op-ed about the dishonest and illegal way the Democratic Party treated his campaign certainly helped reinforce this view...
https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2016/03/25/ralph-nader-...
Amusingly Hillary disciples were hollering gleefully at her ballot stuffing efforts in Wyoming bringing about a closer race, even though we're talking about being 1 delegate off from his targets.