Blind hatred and Hillary's "resistance" movement
We know that one of the reasons Hillary lost was that she had no positive positions - she was not "for" anything. Just "Trump, Trump, Trump, Russia, Russia, Russia!" Are we for anything? Or are we falling into Hillary's McCarthy-ite pattern? Here's an important three paragraphs, but there's a lot more worth reading in the article.
There are many things I don't like about Trump's positions, but he's just saved us from a guaranteed horror - no WW 3 for now, no TPP/loss of sovreteignty for now. That's nothing to sneer at. We need to be intelligent about opposing other policies, and part of that is recognizing the difference between positive and negative actions.
Political influence requires carrots as well as sticks. Do we want to have influence on events, or is it enough to just hate? The only carrots we have at the moment are intelligent arguments civilly presented, and recognition of positive actions. An occasional atta-boy might be what gets us and our intelligent arguments a hearing in the first place. So, please just consider what this author has to say:
http://thesaker.is/is-your-hate-intelligent-anti-trump-rallies-go-global/
The breakup of Libya and Ukraine, the coup in Honduras, the attempted breakup of Syria, the support of ISIL in Iraq, the military “pivot to China”, Cold War 2.0 with Russia, thousands of civilians killed by drone assassinations…my God are Hillary and Barry’s hands dirty.
The trillion-dollar bailout of the big banks, the failure to rebuild Main Street, the phony “economic recovery”, the constant push for more “best corporation wins” free trade policies – Trump did none of this.
The record number of deportations, the systematic imprisonment and murder of people of Color, the refusal of a Black president to sincerely elevate a movement like Black Lives Matter….you see where I’m going.
So why the public blanket frothing at the mouth now, when these horrors slid quietly past most people? As I mentioned, I object to many of his proposals, but we won't accomplish anything by calling him names, as Hillary did. Many of the things I object to or worry about haven't happened yet, or we don't have specifics yet. He's been sworn in, and he's a fact we have to work with now. How are we doing to do that? I think our goals should be to support the positive (more jobs, buy American, lower drug prices, good health care for everyone - if it is (we know the ACA is not affordable or universal), rebuild our crumbling infrastructure...) and try to change the negatives. No?
Comments
If and when Trump does something positive for the wage
earning class we should applaud him for it. Seeing the monied elite and militarists he's appointing makes me think his positives will be few and far between and afterthoughts or tangents for his real motivation.
If Trump doesn't clean up his conflicts-of-interests, he may not last long because he has foreign countries sending money to his companies that he still controls. The law is pretty clear: Trump needs to sell what he has and put the proceeds into a blind trust. I hope he does because I think Pence would be worse.
"The justness of individual land right is not justifiable to those to whom the land by right of first claim collectively belonged"
edited spelling - @duckpin - Hitler did something good for the
wage earning class too ...remember, Autobahn? And Trump has to do more than cleaning up his conflict of interests... his language for example. Someone said Trump does what he says. Well, Hitler did too. So, may be one should just listen and take him face value in what he says, even if that means we all would have to go bipolar after a while.
I will pull more Godwins than I can shake a stick at. Ban me.
@mimi His conflicts of
His conflicts of interest are prohibited by the emoluments clause of the Constitution.
"The justness of individual land right is not justifiable to those to whom the land by right of first claim collectively belonged"
@duckpin Congress can give him
Congress can give him explicit or tacit permission to accept money from foreign governments until they want to get him out of office. (My boldface.)
https://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/articlei
The domestic conflicts of interest may also be used as an issue for impeachment. Apparently "high crimes and misdemeanors" means whatever Congress says it means. We all know who currently controls Congress.
Article II of the Constitution states:
Trump has gone out of his way to offend some very powerful Republicans including the Bush clan, John McCain, and Mitt Romney. The question will be how long it takes for the rest of the Rs to decide to toss him out of office. I do not have an opinion on that at this point.
@asterisk He violated this
He violated this clause within minutes after taking office. It's part of his baggage. Congress can ignore it, it's up to them, but the Office of Government Ethics has said the only way for Trump to avoid conflicts of interest is to sell all his business holdings and put the proceeds into a blind trust.
Thanks for the detailed information. I agree with you that Trump has honked off a lot of very high mogul people in the Republican establishment and they will keep him on a short lease. If they can't, he's gone.
"The justness of individual land right is not justifiable to those to whom the land by right of first claim collectively belonged"
May be the question might be how long it takes
the rest of his military leaders til they toss him out of office. They may remember their oath.
Maybe they will remember their oath
good one Mimi. Most of them violate their oaths the minute they take office or even before.
In my opinion, many of them broke their oaths when they voted to fast track the TPP which gave away our national sovereignty over to the corporations because of the ISDS clause that would have allowed the corporations to sue any city or state that banned fracking or raised the minimum wage along with other issues that would get in the way of their profits.
Which AIPAC/MIC/pharma/bank bought politician are you going to vote for? Don’t be surprised when nothing changes.
yes, I read that, but just say for
many people their are lots of things he said that make their blood boil, even if they are "constitutionally legal". Besides how often have other Presidents violated the US constitution? The difference being that most of them tried to hide it properly.Trump is full of himself doing it in the open.
@mimi I am not much of a
I am not much of a source on this but it is true that the Office of Government Ethics said bluntly that Trump has to sell his business interests.
Trump will be appointing all sorts of people involved with regulating banks, for instance, and he owes money to many banks. It seems to be a conflict of interest on its face.
Whether Congress will do anything about it, I can't guess and, yes, I agree with you other presidents have seemed to violate the Constitution and escaped any sort of Congressional action.
"The justness of individual land right is not justifiable to those to whom the land by right of first claim collectively belonged"
you make me sound as if I try to give Trump
some sort of slack with regards to his conflicts of interest. Not so I would be happy if it would become a reason and tool for impeaching him. And for sure I don't know the details of the laws any better than you. No way. I think we don't disagree in any of this.
@mimi It's not my
It's not my intention to do that at all - sorry that's the way it came across when I wrote it because I certainly did not mean it that way.
"The justness of individual land right is not justifiable to those to whom the land by right of first claim collectively belonged"
then all is good - thanks for your thoughts and words/nt
@mimi Again, I am
Again, I am sorry if what I wrote seemed to be an attack - it was the farthest thing from my mind. (I need to take remedial writing)
Cheers.
"The justness of individual land right is not justifiable to those to whom the land by right of first claim collectively belonged"
you make me lol
I should take basic English writing and remedial thinking.
@mimi And to
And to think, I read Proust at a young age and still can't write more clearly.
"The justness of individual land right is not justifiable to those to whom the land by right of first claim collectively belonged"
Impeach Trump and you get President Pence
and The Handmaid's Tale for real. And quite possibly a civil war, given the current hysterical state of things. We too can have (more) bloody bodies lying in the streets and mass graves.
@duckpin
Unfortunately, Hillary seems to have established as acceptable a publicly visible (despite efforts) complete lack of ethics or of care for her people and country, never mind other people and countries... and I kinda wonder if Trump is supposed to scare people into the Dem
slaughterhousesheep-fold, possibly in the near future. It certainly seems to be a good possibility.Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.
A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.
They're "Godwins".
They're "Godwins". Named after Counselor Mike Godwin.
And hereabouts, "Godwin's Law" isn't a law. If the shoe fits, folks hereabouts are encouraged to make it be worn. This isn't the Daily Kos "safe space"; we have real discussions here.
With Herr Drumpf in the Oval Office, it's getting time to retire Godwin's Law anyway. At 58, I'm of the same generation as Mike Godwin. (He's a 1956 model; I'm a 1958.) When we were growing up, we didn't need to consider whether or not someone was a fascist; we had people all around us, the folks who fought World War II on the ground, who had actually handled real fascists themselves, who told us. But today, that generation is practically extinct. We need to have those discussions now. We owe it to those who swore "Never Again!" after defeating fascism on our behalf.
"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar
"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides
thx. for saying this, I just don't like myself much
if I make a Hitler comparison. It's an easy thing to do and done too often. But lately it was hard not thinking about it.
oops - edited my Goodwins to Godwins
above. Though I kinda like my spelling. I like to pull Good Wins.
Godwin's isn't a law anywhereabouts.
In fact, I may do an essay about it, even though the whole thing could barely be sillier.
anywhereabouts
Well, by this response I can tell you have few dealings over at TOP these days.
Of course, anything not completely PC is verboten over there, regardless of what the published rules say......
"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar
"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides
What happens on any message board has zero to
do with transforming an observation about the length of message board threads into even a fake law, let alone a real one. Neither does anything I do or don't do. And, I don't think Godwin's Law has anything to do with being p.c. or not being p.c.
FTR, I am a fan of being politically correct, which I see simply as trying not to hurt people for no better reason than self-indulgent diarrhea of the mouth. I have little patience for people who so resent having their biased speech pointed out to them that they try to make a cause célèbre of using hurtful language. But, as I said, that has nothing to do with Godwin's observation about the length of message board threads.
Er is wieder da.
"Obama promised transparency, but Assange is the one who brought it."
I guarantee my hair will whiten more.
Trump's "hair" will be the same. I am guessing 6 months.
Hey! my dear friends or soon-to-be's, JtC could use the donations to keep this site functioning for those of us who can still see the life preserver or flotsam in the water.
I think Trump's weakness
is his ego. His immediate responses to even the most minor criticism is evidence enough of his concern for his fragile public image. If any POTUS was ever more egotistically vulnerable it is "The Donald ".
A loud and persistent public could, possibly, bring him to heel.
An oversized ego is not a blessing. IMHO.
Neither Russia nor China is our enemy.
Neither Iran nor Venezuela are threatening America.
Cuba is a dead horse, stop beating it.
It's a tactic, I think
The latest, illegal voters, is a counter to Russia, Russia, Russia! And it's working - we aren't hearing about Russia as much. There's the same evidence for both, none at all.
If he were as stupid and lacking in self-control as people keep saying, he wouldn't have pulled off his hostile takeover of the Republican Party, or won the election with the whole Establishment attacking and sneering at him.
Anyway, do we want to make any difference, or do we want to just sit around hating him?
Edited for spelling
By Hair Drumpfs definition
a sizeable proportion of his cabinet are illegal voters, as in registered in more than one state. Actually I've come across several Republicans with the view since they own property in more than one state, thus paying taxes there, they're entitled to vote in those states. By that criteria, as I pass through Birmingham and stop for a tank of gas and a candy bar, I should vote in Alabama elections.
I do disagree on the name calling bit, though. Watched a clip by Judge Jeanine, that lying, racist colostomy bag ( or as Fox calls her, that paragon of honesty and integrity), and she advocated for everyone to shut up and show Hair Drumpf the same respect Republicans showed Obama. Now, I'm not particularly a fan of B O, but I remember the respect he got. So, according to Judge J, we're required to stand in congress when Donny Tiny Hands (I generally shorten it to Andy as shorthand for needle dick) speaks and shout "Liar!" Do everything possible to make sure he accomplishes nothing, as Limbaugh said that was the patriotic thing to do. Make damn sure he is a one term president a la McConnell. Take him to task on the tarmac with plenty of chest poking. Constant grid lock in congress 'investigating' everything he tries to accomplish scores of times. And, dammit, I wanna see his birth certificate, long form, non photo shopped edition. Y'know he HAS to be a Third Reich clone from a secret base in Argentina (it's fun to play the CT nutbag, but it's hard to get out of the role).
There is no such thing as TMI. It can always be held in reserve for extortion.
@ghotiphaze In other words, the
In other words, the Dem plan is to attempt to continue the Two-Party Trade-Off Greater/Lesser Evil excuse for nothing ever being done for the people for whom government exists and this impasse supposedly being why The People are perpetually and increasingly poisoned-for-profit, propagandized and impoverished to further enrich those already having most of everything.
I think that's got a bit old for those whose backs have already been driven to the wall and must now fight for their lives, having little else remaining, now that the last of their lunch money is to be forever stolen to fatten the already Fat Cats.
Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.
A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.
As long as your choice
is no choice at all, that's what we'll get. Trumpeteers and Clintonistas are destroying their respective parties. Good riddance! If more of the same actions accelerates their collapse, I'm for it. Berners showed there IS a better way, and a lot of America is waking up.
There is no such thing as TMI. It can always be held in reserve for extortion.
I for one would appreciate your Alabama vote
Please drop by and vote often...cause were in a mess. Time after time voting against our own interest. Yes masta.
“Until justice rolls down like water and righteousness like a mighty stream.”
I'm stuck in Kansas
so nearly the same boat.
Really haven't been to Alabama since the early 70s when I spent four hours trying to find my way out of Birmingham towing a Cessna 140 fuselage hooked onto a bumper hitch. I seemed to keep ending up midtown. They really don't want you to get out, do they?
There is no such thing as TMI. It can always be held in reserve for extortion.
@ghotiphaze Oh, man! That
Oh, man! That was me that honked at you. I was trying to make it sound like a friendly honk on account of it looked like you knew what you were doing. It's rare that I get a chance to explain a horn honk. Glad you arrived safely to where you were going.
Reproductive choice is the hardest nut to crack.
I almost never plan to use coarse language or intend to create a pun of any kind. Puns seem to post themselves, leaving me the dilemma of whether or not to change the wording. Because some see abortion as murder and contraception as an awful sin, I would not intentionally joke about this subject. I just cannot think of another way to say it that expresses my meaning. In fact, the only other sentence that came to mind was "Reproductive choice is where the rubber meets the road." So, my apologies.
Anyway....I think I know enough about the Bible to have a serious, calm discussion with an intelligent evangelical minister about ending the persecution of gays by us humans. Maybe even to persuade some believers on this point. But I do not know of a way to do that about abortion. Even though you know it was happening, even thousands of years ago, especially among the poor and during famines, both of which figure prominently in the Bible, the Bible says nothing about abortion. Rather,believers interpret "Thou shalt not kill" to apply to fetuses and some believers also cite another verse that says God numbered the hair on your head before you were born. As for contraception, it supposedly interferes with the will of God (which rationale would also apply to most, if not all, medical intervention).
In November, we saw evangelicals hold their noses and vote for a man with three marriages and many sexual encounters outside marriage, despite airing of his taped lewdness and his constant coarseness. But....a devout Catholic whom I've know since grade school told me that he (my former classmate), being strongly pro-life, had no choice at the voting booth but to vote for Trump. (And by pro-life, he really meant only anti-abortion: Unlike the man whom my former classmate supposedly believes is God on Earth, my former classmate is very jingoistic about wars, the military, members of the military, etc. and I've once never heard my former classmate speak against the death penalty.)
In any event, I don't know how to convince a believer that Thou Shalt Not Kill does not apply before live birth. Even harder would be convincing a believer not to be a believer anymore. So, I think the ultimate ballgame is reproductive choice and promising, even implicitly, to appoint Supreme Court judges who are hostile to reproductive choice. (It's no accident that that, until Scalia died, we had six Catholic Justices, even the one African American Justice, even though a majority of Americans do not attend Mass.) And thus, while running, Hillary Clinton disingenuously dog whistled to (gullible) Republicans that she would be willing to consider a Constitutional amendment about reproductive choice (much as she promised gullible Democrats that she would pursue a Constitutional amendment to reverse the Citizens' United SCOTUS decision). http://caucus99percent.com/content/lets-amend-constitution
Yes, people
are so focused on his personality and their personal biases they are unable to be objective.
Now I see Maddow blowing her head up because of Trump's lies, as if no politician had ever lied before. Where were these exploding heads when BO or HRC was lying?
Obviously, these people aren't capable of looking beyond a pretty package and buy everything said, hook, line, and sinker.
Now I see Madonna and Ashley Judd acting like fools, screaming their heads off. Where were they during the last 20 years??
Am I really to believe that these people genuinely care about whatever issue they are screaming about?
dfarrah
You prolly haven't noticed
he is filling his cabinet with Billionaire Neo-Liberal Sociopaths. What do you think? They are gonna be like all "we heart the workingclass" and shit?
Not that Hellery would have been any better. But The Trump Neo-Liberal Tsunami is coming soon enuff.
While we're waiting, read Get Ready for the First Shocks of Trump’s Disaster Capitalism, Naomi Klein
https://theintercept.com/2017/01/24/get-ready-for-the-first-shocks-of-tr...
PS I'm Still waiting to hear the Pres of Mexico say he's paying for the Wall. hahahahhahahahaha.
Donnie The #ShitHole Douchebag. Fake Friend to the Working Class. Real Asshole.
I've noticed his cabinet.
It may be bad, yes, or it may mean that he thinks he can control them. What left wing administrators have shown that they can control large organizations, full of vicious entrenched neocons? Those people are going to fight like crazy if Trump does try to Drain the Swamp. It will take tough experienced organizational infighters.
We just don't know yet.
@Sunspots His executive actions
His executive actions are fullfilling
exactly what he said he would do on the campaign trail. He just rubberstamped KXL and DAPL pipelines yesterday. I don't need anymore convincing that he will be a Greedy Neo-Liberal Scumbag. He's a Climate denier, anti-science, will roll back every concievable corporate regulation, will bleed the taxpayers dry trying to rid the world of Evil (ISIS), ... fuck it the list is too long.
The strength of Your Faith may vary.
Donnie The #ShitHole Douchebag. Fake Friend to the Working Class. Real Asshole.
@Citizen Of Earth I'm bemused by the
I'm bemused by the hot and heavy anti-Trump reactions to the first what 5 days in office? Also suspicious of the wave of anti-Bernie sentiment now being piled on by new posters over at WOTB.
Trump was elected because he said he was going to do XYZ. Why is everyone horrified that he is doing XYZ? Im guessing that because we are so used to candidates like Obama saying one thing pre election, and doing the opposite after, we're all in shock. Trump said he would dump the TPP and he dumped the TPP on day one. Kudos! You know damn well Hillary would have never done that. He said the US would be renegotiating NAFTA, and bingo on day 2, he informs Canada that that's what's gonna happen. Kudos! Obama campaigned on renegotiating NAFTA, and he could similarly have done that without any input whatsoever from congress, and he didn't do it. He simply lied to the people like me who voted for him. Trump said he was going to get DAPL and Keystone going again, and he signed orders to do that. Boooooo! But you know Hillary would have done that too. He said he was going to put up a wall and get Mexico to pay for it, and he 's trying to do that. Booooo! (And good luck with that!) He said he was going to tighten immigration from the Middle East, and he's doing that. Booooo! But you will notice in the ABC interview, he told the interviewer that we should never have invaded Iraq, we should never have left it the mess we did, and that because of that, the Middle East is now full of people who hate us and wish us harm. Bingo! Would Hillary ever ever admit US actions caused the disastrous reactions?
The guy is a narcissistic megalomanic way over his great big head, and he should never ever have been president. Thanks for that, Hillary. And I'm hoping the law suit being prepared by the likes of Chemerinsky, Tribe, and yah! Teachout will allow Congress to impeach him. But meantime I think it's important to get a grip, not fall for the Clintonistas attempts to delegitimize him with the scary Russians and now the we-think-he's-unstable whispers, and only to act when and where he tries to injure us as individuals and as a nation. And then hit the streets.
The best argument against impeachment is Mike Pence.
Hillary with a uterus fixation.
I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.
@GusBecause Impeachment is
Impeachment is going to provide us with fucking insane and much more dangerous Mike Pence.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
Well, what exactly is
the difference between cabinet appointees and informal advisors?
People are whining about DT's cabinet when the entire establishment of billionaires lined up behind HRC? Or when BO ran interference for them?
dfarrah
@Citizen Of Earth I am shocked that people
I am shocked that people are shocked by this. How is it different from what Obama and Bush did, again?
Oh, yeah. They put in politicians who were WORKING FOR the banks and oil industry and MIC and Wal-Mart, rather than putting in the CEOs themselves.
Well, that change Trump's making should make a lot of difference to our lives, because....
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
Very thoughtful and interesting article.
While I don't agree with everything he says, I found myself relating to much of it. Thanks for sharing the link.
He did not save us from WWIII,
we don't know if Clinton would have started it and we don't know if it won't happen anyway. Better look closely because things really haven't changed in that regard. Relative to the TPP, also, what happens instead could be worse.
My striking flint comes today via USPS
I am preparing for whatever. But survivalists are weird. I am not there yet.
Hey! my dear friends or soon-to-be's, JtC could use the donations to keep this site functioning for those of us who can still see the life preserver or flotsam in the water.
The weird may turn out to be the
sane ones. Like they say here, "keep Portland weird".
A magnifying glass works too
but only on a sunny day.
"Obama promised transparency, but Assange is the one who brought it."
Did you listen to Hillary?
I don't think there's much doubt that she was pushing hard for war with Russia. The neocons have decided now that nuclear war would be survivable, and the "elites" have been buying private planes and shelters in New Zealand (not here for us, though).
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-01-25/elites-eying-exits-signals-amer...
We know the TPP was disastrous, and it's gone. Many things are possible in the future, but one terrible one has been averted.
It's not just the neocons that believe using nuclear weapons
in war is practical, it's in the Pentagon war plans and you better believe Trump and his regime would be up for that when the times comes. They've said so. Trump and his regime are just as much imperialist warmongers as Clinton and her regime would have been. I've been writing about this for over a decade, so ya, I've listened to Clinton. I believe I've been more consistent than anyone at calling her a murderous war criminal. But I give Trump and his team, that wants torture, that wants the largest military ever assembled, that wants a nuclear arms race, that wants war with China, that wants regime change in Venezuela, zero slack on this.
As I've written, this supposed rapprochement with Russia is about tactics for U.S. imperialism, the danger for war is just as high as ever. The Atomic clock is now closer to midnight than it's ever been.
Trump just got rid of Victoria Nuland
She's the neocon (married to Robert Kagan) in the State Department who engineered the coup in Ukraine, and when told the EU didn't want to go ahead with it, was taped on the phone saying, "Fuck the EU."
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-01-26/entire-senior-management-team-s...
(redacted) - didn't read properly,
@Sunspots They handed in
They handed in their resignations as they HAD to do. It is not technically a resignation, it is the PROCEDURE when a new administration comes in.
The fact is, Trump accepted them.
Bye, bye Patrick Kennedy!!!! Thanks be to the Gods & Goddesses.
I wanna Yell, BAZINGA!
And God only knows who'll
replace her. Look at the abject loons he's hiring and tell me that he won't put another one in there. And that TPP is not in any way, shape or form really dead, it will rise again and probably will be worse.
As for hating on the Rumper, while I do hate him and what he's doing, my real scorn and yes, HATE, is for "Republicans" who voted for just the policies he's going to implement, over and over and over again. I have one friend who admitted Trump "scares her" and I wanted so, so badly to ask her what the fuck? This IS what you voted for every time you pulled that lever for a Repuke, and NOW you wanna be scared? There should be a special place in hell for such hypocrites but instead of a special place just for them, they're going to ensure we ALL get to enjoy that hell.
I can forgive the disillusioned and destitute who voted for that idiot out of desperation, but I cannot and will not forgive the spoiled rotten assholes who feel victimized by supposed "liberals" for doing it, they are responsible for the destruction of this country, period. Just as responsible as Hillary and Barack and Bill are. NO quarter from me there, not today and maybe not ever. And as for letting go of my hate, I'm not ready to do that yet.
Only a fool lets someone else tell him who his enemy is. Assata Shakur
@Big Al I would absolutely
I would absolutely agree with you (and I do agree that there's no point in criticizing either head of the monster unless you're criticizing the monster itself, which is the system that runs both "sides")--but I am confused by the elimination of Nuland, who is very close to the center of imperialist warmongering corruption in US politics. I would not have thought that Trump would want to eliminate her, or would be able to if he did.
It seems to me that the Deep State (MIC, bankers, oil barons) can't agree on whether or not they want nuclear armageddon right now.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
Hillary is now irrelevant. She lost and will never be president
Which is great news. Good riddance to the Clintons and their ilk! It's time to stop rehashing an election that was over more than two months ago. Comparing Trump to the Clintons now is pointless. Trump won, and he's the president now. And he is a delusional, dangerous, violent egomaniac.
He promised in his first speech as president, within minutes of being sworn in, to "eradicate radical Islamic terrorism from the face of the earth" -- so how does anyone imagine he's not a warmonger who is going to wage wars anywhere and everywhere? He openly advocates torture. He just called Chelsea Manning an "ungrateful TRAITOR who should never have been released from prison." With that target he just painted on her back, she will probably have to go into hiding to survive after getting out.
The president of Mexico just canceled a planned diplomatic visit because of Trump's announced plans for building a massive border wall and expecting Mexico to pay for it, and ramping up deportations. Under Trump's administration we are essentially at war with everyone, except Russia I guess, at least for the moment, but that could easily change on a dime too.
Oh but he "saved us" from the TPP? No he didn't. The TPP was not ratified by any country. Not one. At least six would have had to do so before it would have taken effect, and it wasn't even close to being accepted by any of them. There was great resistance in almost all of the countries that would have needed to ratify it. If Obama could have gotten it through the US congress, he would have. But when you have both Paul Ryan and Nancy Pelosie saying no, and even $hillary forced to waffle on it, it ain't happening. Trump's order was grandstanding for his base; in reality it changed nothing.
I'm not a democrat, haven't been registered as one since 1997. I strongly oppose the neoliberalism, dishonesty, and warmongering of the Democratic Party. I despise the Clintons and their sycophants. For me, opposition to Trump has zero to do with partisan politics. It is because he's a disaster for all of us and the world. Once he's out, I will no doubt oppose his successor too. When it comes to warmongering lunatics, I oppose them all. But Trump is the one with his tiny fingers on the button right now, and he requires massive opposition. Not just from democrats but from everyone who values life on this earth.
amen /nt
@CS in AZ She is not irrelevant
She is not irrelevant. Her campaign, horribly, hasn't stopped. It's just pretending to be a feminist revolution now.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
@CS in AZ And she's planning on
And she's planning on running to be mayor of NYC, which will put her in charge of the NYPD. As Bloomberg once called them, the world's "seventh-largest private army."
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
@Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal
Dear gawd, why that didn't occur to me! And, of course, the rigging process in NY seems to be well-practiced on her behalf.
Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.
A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.
@CS in AZ This is what
This is what everybody's saying, as if one's personal intentions in protest are what determines the nature of the protest. I believe that, in addition to intent, it's a good idea to look at what the results of the protest are likely to be, and who will benefit. I don't disregard intent altogether, but it's less important to me than results, and who will benefit from them.
If you think that any woman under the top 10% economic bracket is going to benefit from these marches, protests, and the "resistance" itself, I want some of what you're smoking. Or let me put it less harshly--there's a chance that in an effort to look like they give a shit, the Democrats will actually pass something good, or oppose something evil, because TRUMP! when they wouldn't pass something good or oppose something evil under Obama. There is a chance *something* good might come of this. However, given how the fucking Democrats behaved under Bush, I doubt it.
As for good things being achieved from the bottom-up by participating in a "resistance" run by highly-paid political operatives, media figures, and media companies themselves, all of whom were and are in support of Hillary Clinton and the DNC--this looks like the textbook definition of astroturf to me. In this case, astroturf similar to that of the Tea Party where actual, sincere people have gravitated into an organization and a movement run by the establishment to accomplish its aims. One of which is preventing the rise of a resistance movement NOT run by them.
Why the hell don't people turn their backs on this establishment shit and build a real protest movement, if that's what people want. If you want to protest Trump without being co-opted by Clinton, it's not enough to say that that's what you want. You have to protest Trump in a manner Clinton can't co-opt. A good way to do this is to focus on the corrupt power that fuels them both.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
You're reading a lot into my comment that I didn't say
I didn't say anything about the big marches or organized protests, and I didn't say anything about women -- or anyone else for that matter -- "benefiting" from them. You won't find me participating in anything like that, and my comment was not about that at all.
I also didn't say that how I feel about opposition is how everyone at these marches feels about it. In fact, I think a lot of them don't have any point. I know some people who went to the "women's march" here in Tucson and from their pictures and stories, it seemed to me it was more like a party in the park than a protest. Pointless for getting anything done. (And, alas, I've had to give up smoking the good stuff, became I can't afford it anymore.)
My point is: Trump is not a "good guy" simply because he's not Hillary. In fact, he's not a good guy, period. We need to stop imagining he's some kind of savior, stop giving him credit where it's not due, stop ignoring or excusing the evil and stupid things he's doing, and stop giving him the benefit of doubt because there isn't any doubt: he's a violent warmongering egomaniac. "He's better than Hillary" IS an irrelevant argument, because she is not going to be president.
Opposition to Trump now has nothing to do with Hillary or democrats. Opposition can be different forms for different people, whether its protesting at Standing Rock, or protesting at the Mexico border where his ridiculous wall is to be constructed -- which is in my backyard -- or if it's writing articles or talking to people to expose him as the lying sack of shit he is, or whatever. The important thing to me is people need to stop propping him up and defending him. Everywhere.
@CS in AZ I'm totally with
I'm totally with you on Trump not being a good guy. He's not a good guy. He's a bad guy who's done a couple of good things, both of them essentially negative, by which I mean he's AVOIDED doing horrible things.
Given that one of those horrible things is nuclear war, I'm really glad he's avoided doing those horrible things. But--
While I'm not going to deny that withdrawing from TPP and de-escalating with Russia are good things, neither am I gonna deny that I'm kind of waiting for the other shoe to drop. OTOH, I'd be waiting for that even if it were a Democrat, at this point, unless perhaps it were Bernie.
I'm sorry I read things into your comment that weren't there. I'm a little wound up by this most recent hullabaloo, because, horribly, the Democrats are actually making a go of repairing their reputations by focusing on how horrible Trump is. In other words, the fucking Clinton campaign is actually ongoing, despite the fact that the election is over and she and they just suffered a humiliating loss. They're using the exact same strategy they used before the election, except that it's working now. I'm very upset about this, because if they pull it off, they will have reduced the left, what's left of it, to being their useful puppet.
I'm sorry I projected that onto you.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
@CS in AZ "He's better than
"He's better than Hillary" IS an irrelevant argument, because she is not going to be president.
No, it isn't irrelevant. It's really important to keep the Democrats from being able to continue the "rotating villains" narrative they have been using for the past 30 years to keep us in line.
Protesting Trump is not going to help. The system is inured to protests against one leader or one party. They simply turn the other party into the current "good guy," rinse and repeat. If this sort of protest could work, we would have gotten out of this shit when we turned against Bush. But turning against Bush didn't free us. The "good guy" who got in kept us on the same path as a nation that we'd been on under Bush. He even advanced us down it.
One of the few good things about this election is that it left a large number of Americans disgusted with both political parties and the press. That puts us in a position to start building something new. But if all that disgust and resentment gets focused onto Trump and we forget Clinton, then the Democrats start inching their way back to being "the good option." And then we haven't gotten anywhere at all.
The only protest that will help get us free is a protest against the system that gave us the choice of Hillary vs Trump. If we protest just against Hillary or just against Trump, we remain trapped. If we protest just against Democrats or just against Republicans, again, we remain trapped.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
Well...
To each their own way. Like I said above, I don't expect everyone to feel as I do, but my opinion is that the election is over, and keeping eyes on the Clintons is simply giving them what they want. They lost, to effing Donald Trump! So they thrash around trying to stay relevant ... of course... but imo they should just be laughed at after that pathetic performance. I just don't care what they are doing now, which is why I totally ignored this so-called women's march thing. they are history. If the democrats continue running Clintons or people like them, I won't be voting for them. Maybe someday they will learn. Probably not.
I'm very much against what Trump is doing as president right now, and I'm not going to sit by and just ignore it. I will keep pointing out his horrible actions, especially when people keep saying he's a good guy, he's saving us from war, etc. when the truth is he's a liar, a con man, an autocratic rich fuck warmonger, right up there with the Clintons and democrats. I believe it's necessary to protest bad policies, regardless of which side is driving the bus over the cliff at any given time.
If someone can tell me a way to get rid of "the system" I'm all ears.
@CS in AZ First we've
First we've got to build something to replace it. Together.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
Right, Clinton is not irrelevant or gone.
This is part of her campaign continuing, right here. I've been reading that George Soros (Hillary backer) funded the buses for the "women's" march - more like Hillary's march(!), though I doubt that the participants were aware of the organization and funding.
@Sunspots I don't know
I don't know about Soros, but when I see Gloria Steinem and Debbie Wasserman-Schultz on the mainstage, it's not hard to connect the dots.
When I see four out of the five major media corporations covering the march, it's even easier.
This is the Clinton campaign. They decided not to stop with the election. Which is shitty news, because I wanted that to end like nobody's business.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
I'm with you.
"The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power. Now do you begin to understand me?" ~Orwell, "1984"
True. To Obama, TPP fulfills his campaign promise to fix NAFTA.
And then there was his somewhat arrogant and totally disingenuous promise to fix his July 2008 FISA vote once he became President.
And, of course, we all "know" that protecting Social Security means cutting it--but chained CPI is not a cut anyway! /sarcasm
Good times!
Crappy politicians, but good times.
@Big Al "We don't know if Clinton
"We don't know if Clinton would have started it?"
Well, it wouldn't have been for lack of trying.
I feel like we are just going around in circles because we can't deal with the fact that both Clinton and Trump are corrupt pieces of shit run by a hideously corrupt and largely insane system.
I don't see why we can't just say: "Yes, the TPP was horrible, and it's good we pulled out; yes, it seems less likely that Trump will push for an exchange of missiles with Putin in the next six months; yes, because he's a horribly corrupt product of a horribly corrupt system, both of these positives might evaporate or turn out to be some kind of trick," though it's hard to imagine foreign policy that could be worse than this (start at 2:52)
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
Oh please.
With BO moving in on Russia and China, HRC's typical bellicosity, the State Dept's lust for blood, WWIII was almost guaranteed if HRC had become pres.
You've been a huge proponent of the notion that we're on the brink of nuclear disaster because of Trump, but you have nothing to back up your opinion.
Geez, if only all of this 'hair on fire' stuff had happened when BO was starting wars, continuing wars, bombing countries, etc., maybe some lives could have been saved.
dfarrah
Don't misrepresent what I've said.
No where have I said we're on the "brink of nuclear disaster" because of Trump. And you don't need to lecture me about Clinton or Obama, I've been as tough on both of them as any. I'll have more to say about your "boy" in the WH relative to U.S. imperialism and idiot Trump's plans. If it doesn't set your "hair on fire", that's your problem.
@Big Al Is dfarrah a Trump
Is dfarrah a Trump supporter? Wondering how Trump could be his boy.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
I'll clap for anything positive that Trump accomplishes
just as I would've for Obama. I'm thrilled to death I won't have to do it for her heinous not that I would've expected anything good from her.
Liberalism is dying.....ties into this, an excellent read
https://zeroanthropology.net/2017/01/18/the-dying-days-of-liberalism/
I never knew that the term "Never Again" only pertained to
those born Jewish
"Antisemite used to be someone who didn't like Jews
now it's someone who Jews don't like"
Heard from Margaret Kimberley
You are right, excellent read. Shared to FB
So time for something new? We are more in the weeds than we thought.
Hey! my dear friends or soon-to-be's, JtC could use the donations to keep this site functioning for those of us who can still see the life preserver or flotsam in the water.
Definitely new
Big Al is correct, the system that legitimizes it needs to go.
I never knew that the term "Never Again" only pertained to
those born Jewish
"Antisemite used to be someone who didn't like Jews
now it's someone who Jews don't like"
Heard from Margaret Kimberley
How?
Some of us, including those of us in cities and towns that charge the highest real estate taxes in the country, can't even manage to get our cities and towns to control visible trash. Collectively, we could not even get the best candidate for POTUS nominated. IMO, insisting that changing the entire system is the only thing worth contemplating is THE best way to ensure nothing at all will improve. Meanwhile, things will get worse.
IMO, we need to set some immediate, at least semi-realistic goals that, Lord willing and the creek don't rise, we might actually be able to accomplish and then taking at least one or two actions toward accomplishing them? (Actions besides osting and signing internet petitions.)
My pick for Goal #1 is making sure votes are clean and cleanly counted. http://caucus99percent.com/content/time-re-fight-most-recent-battle-read... (That, we will need for any system and any political party anyway.) If we accomplish even that much, I'll be encourage to work toward the next goal.
I'm all for it HW
Making sure elections are on the up and up is a change to the current system. The system as is is meant to serve those only in power, gerrymandering also, so until the system is changed the outcome will be what it is now, the trickle down of LOTE trickle down meaning we get more evil w/each passing election.
I never knew that the term "Never Again" only pertained to
those born Jewish
"Antisemite used to be someone who didn't like Jews
now it's someone who Jews don't like"
Heard from Margaret Kimberley
@ggersh
Sure, but a change to the system is different from changing the entire system. If it recall correctly, Big Al has posted that we need to start over with a new Constitution. I am not sure if I agree or disagree. I just doubt it's going to happen, at least not in a time frame that will matter to anyone over 30. Especially without armed revolution--and I doubt armed revolution will commence with that time frame, let alone succeed.
From link, $hills book sales was another canary in the coalmine
which was the same story for the Neoliberal Nightmare of New York, Gov. Andrew Cuomo (although he won, though a completely unknown primary challenger with no money, Zephyr Teachout, managed to get 35% of the primary vote), another unpopular, propped-up fraud, poster boy of everything wrong with the Emperor's New Clothes mentality of the Dem Party. His book was also a complete disaster, another laughable attempt to try to ingratiate an empty husk of a candidate to a completely uninterested public who can smell a rat when it is one.
"If I should ever die, God forbid, let this be my epitaph:
THE ONLY PROOF HE NEEDED
FOR THE EXISTENCE OF GOD
WAS MUSIC"
- Kurt Vonnegut
Can Russians stop book sales?
Yes, the "New Democrats" have fallen hook line and sinker for donor$$$$
principle is a attribute none of them have.
And perfectly said!
"His book was also a complete disaster, another laughable attempt to try to ingratiate an empty husk of a candidate to a completely uninterested public who can smell a rat when it is one."
I never knew that the term "Never Again" only pertained to
those born Jewish
"Antisemite used to be someone who didn't like Jews
now it's someone who Jews don't like"
Heard from Margaret Kimberley
@Mark from Queens There was a hilarious
There was a hilarious trend on Amazon, in the user reviews of Hillary's book. People sent it up seven ways from Sunday. Then, sadly, Amazon shut it down. God, it was funny.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
That's a lie from the vast right wing conspiracy!
The Clinton Foundation bought 3000 copies the first day
Hard CheeseHard Choices was out.Her book tour was the same as her 2008 primary campaign, her 2016 primary campaign and her general election campaign: right out of the gate, her popularity ratings were incredibly high. However, the more people saw of her, the lower her favorable ratings went.
America just isn't that into her. Ultimately, it doesn't really even matter why. America just isn't that into her. Gee, I wonder how the DNC and almost every Democratic politician in the country managed to miss that? Lord knows, so many people tried to point it out. And the polls were there for them to see.
@ggersh I knew he was right-wing,
I knew he was right-wing, but he was also smart. So I kept reading up till he said fascism was not a widespread project.
Sad to see intelligence blinded by political preconceptions. Nazism is not a widespread project, but fascism is everywhere. No "misappropriation" of the term needed.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
There is nothing positive I can say about a paranoid
narcissistic sociopath and the motley neo-liberal warmongering crew he has surrounded himself with, I believe anything positive he does for anyone outside the Goldman Sachs club will be an accident. He is making enemies around the world with every minute that goes by and when the US feels threatened we go to war. His comments on torture were more than the final straw.
I'm going to watch the British PM squirm when she meets him, the faithful lapdog has no teeth.
I dislike Hillary's and Democratic Party politics totally and rejected them, this doe not mean I've stopped fighting what I perceive to be evil.
My sister asked me what kind of "Schwein" Trump is
when she listened to the news and what Trump said about torture in our German news. She is a low information elderly who doesn't understand much of what the United States is about these days. But that she got immediately. And her reaction was representative for many Germans. Mention the word Trumpf and there is no one in my extended family or nilly-willy neighborhood folks in the stores of my little town here, who doesn't let their mouth run immediately.
I have never witnessed something like it.
@mimi A lot of that's
A lot of that's happening here too. Too bad. Looks like the establishment's psychological manipulation of people is working really well.
Well, at least, this boogeyman is a lot cheaper than the last one. They didn't allow a bastard to kill 3,000 people this time to create the enemy they needed.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
Fighting evil is certainly a good thing.
But how does assuming the worst (that is, hopelessness, despair, woe is us) actually fight evil? I know we've all been traumatized by the betrayal of the faith we put in Obama, but still.
Might it not make sense to look for possible leverage points instead, and try to use them? As for impeaching him or a military takeover, does anyone want a President Pence, or a general taking over the White House by force? Or a civil war with the people who voted for Trump?
Besides, it isn't good for us to hate. People have heart attacks and strokes, etc. from that stuff.
@Sunspots - frankly I was disappointed about
Obama, but not traumatized. I am traumatized about Trump being the President of the United States and traumatized what the kind of people have been nominated into his cabinet. I am convinced he should never have become a President of the United States. I wonder who was the medical doctor who gave him a bill of good health. They forgot to check his mind, which is not working reasonably well enough to not cause major harm.
Just saying.
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