Are the Young Turks part of the Establishment? Is Bernie now?

Although reading published articles is always much, much faster than watching a video, videos give a much more complete exposition of the subject in almost all cases. So while time-consuming, my preference is for video perhaps because I learn better with the combination of sight and sound. This essay is based upon three recent videos, which will be enumerated below. Watch them if you wish, or perhaps read this essay as is, however you prefer.

The primary thesis is one that has been gnawing at me, and by reference to comments on this site, that Cenk Uyghur sold out, perhaps not monetarily, but in matters of integrity and spirit. That moment came, as many of us know, when Bernie lost the primary--more properly, it was stolen out from under him and from US who fervently believed in his message. Cenk then said, perhaps not in so many words, that Trump is so bad, soooo baaad, that we must fall in line and vote for the Klinton Creature. Most of us at c99 did not. I suspect some may have voted for Trump, likely not many though. Lots of us went Green, which I did. How in good conscience could anybody support the serial corrupter, liar, and child killer so beloved by the Democratic establishment? Other than those who had a vested financial interest in her campaign and election, what rational, peace-loving individual would possibly vote for her? If anybody at c99 did so, please don't tell me.

The straw which broke my remaining hope that Cenk was a true progressive came when John Iadarolla, Mark Thomson, and Michael Shure put up a lame defense of the DNC actions. The author of this video, who goes by the name of Hard Bastard pulls no punches in his meticulous analysis of the blatant hypocrisy of TYT in trying to minimize and exculpate the admittedly corrupt DNC, a fact which even they did not deny. In the true spirit of the Corruptocracy, they played Clintonesque word games and false analogies in this feeble effort to semi-justify the DNC's actions.
After seeing this video, having missed the original TYT video, which however is reproduced in full during HB's critique is so foul and lame, that I immediately cancelled my monthly TYT financial support. Jordan Chariton is great but the rest (with the likely exception of Nomiki Konst) is disposable, unreliable trash. [Note, I consider Jimmy Dore to be independent of TYT, even though he is a frequent guest]. If you do watch HB's video, I doubt that many of you will disagree with my analysis. If you do disagree, which is perfectly acceptable provided you can offer a rational counter-argument, I will happily debate in the comment section.

The second video is by the under-appreciated H.A. Goodman, who is rabidly anti-Hillary (as am I) and who correctly predicted in 2015 that Clinton would lose--for which took lots of derision but boy was he right! Again, I did not see the video by TYT which so inflamed him, but H.A. was visibly furious with the disrespect apparently directed at him by TYT. For those who may not be familiar with his work, he often collaborates with Tim Brown, Kyle Culinksy of Secular Talk, and other progressive voices airing on YouTube. His videos are usually short, related to one subject at a time and plainly stated (my kind of guy). This video does not so much voice political opinions as it does to the allegedly false character attacks unleashed by TYT. I have never seen him so worked up but this video gives more reason to believe TYT is a sham progressive outlet.

Finally, the Progressive firebrand, Debbie Lausignon, aka the Sane Progressive blasts both the DNC but most especially Bernie for whom she worked diligently during his campaign. This is an out-and-out rant, as she admits. Clearly she feels betrayed not only by the DNC but by Bernie who is sheep dogging progressives to stay with the establishment Democratic party. Her points are hard to refute, especially coming from one who worked so hard trying to get Bernie elected.

One thing is for certain, is that the Democratic party is incapable of being reformed from within. This is a point which many here at c99 have voiced, me with them.

Defeating the Establishment

So the question now arises, as to how fight the establishment. We have debated this at length. Here is my opinion. Initially, it will be impossible to immediately replace the Democratic party. I'm not sure what the JusticeDemocrats are about to do but my comment is made independent of their actions or inactions.

THE WEAK point, THE ultimate wedge with which to replace the Democrats AND many Republicans who oppose Medicare-for-all/single-payer. Medicare-for all/single-payer is enormously popular across the political spectrum. Even 40 - 50% of Republicans favor this issue. The time is NOW. People may not understand the intricacies of Bank bailouts, Federal Reserve monetary policy, adverse taxation, etc., but they certainly do know that when they or their family is in desperate need of health care. Neither of the duopolistic parties care about them. People all across the country are in revolt, witness the huge, huuuge animosity visited upon Representatives and Senators of both parties at their town halls.

Pushing a broad-spectrum of a complete political agenda, such as Fight for 15, election reform, eliminating ruinous tax policies, overturning Citizens United, etc, will NOT be a unifying issue. But Health CARE (not access) is the unifying issue of the American people NOW. It is fine with me that Republicans get rid of their anti-care elements in favor of a more moderate Republican. Most of all, as concerns progressives is the primarying and replacement of establishment Democrats, who are more blatantly corrupt than Republicans (although the Republicans are certainly unsurpassed in their corruption).

So the first step in a peaceful political revolution is to concentrate on the unifying issue of Health Care. Elect a significant, even if only small portion of non-establishment Democrats and Republicans. Then, regardless of what the GOP does, the small numbers of true Democratic progressives in office, when led by a charismatic leader (such as Tulsi Gabbard or Nina Turner) can break off, forming a new party--call it what you will.

This is the thing to do. For the moment now, concentrate on the one gigantic issue in which so many Americans believe: Medicare-for-all/single-payer. I am reminded that when Jimmy Carter came to Washington, he had a huge plethora of things he wanted to--but he tried to do them all at the same time. This is precisely the opposite strategy. One cause. One issue. NOW!

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riverlover's picture

And I am lucky to be a vested and retired member of NYS Employees, so my health insurance may cost more under Medicare.

I also think that a hard shove, by all sides at once, would work. Now I hear rumors that the Senate will not even discuss the House bill making it DOA. So shove!

And for those who have not seen the Resistance Chicks, here they are.

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Hey! my dear friends or soon-to-be's, JtC could use the donations to keep this site functioning for those of us who can still see the life preserver or flotsam in the water.

earthling1's picture

@riverlover
but you may have to wait til 67 for Medicare. But your union insurance premium should be reduced by whatever your Medicare premium is. And some of that is dependent on whether you enroll with part D, the drug coverage portion of Medicare, which is extra. It's complicated but seems fair to me in my situation involving a union pension and health plan, including drug coverage. I'm still paying about the same per month.
If you've not retired yet, you probably have to wait until 67 to collect S.S. Thanks to St.Ronnie.

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After six years, still getting robo-calls from Marriot Hotels.
They're like herpes.

It summarizes where we are as a community, that is C99. Frankly, it excites me that for once we have a community based on vision and principle. The naysayers are making the point that we can't be effective without compromising our principles. I say that, considering the magnitude of the challenge, we will never be effective if we compromise our principles.

Let's look at the problem from the positive side. We have infinite opportunities to effect incremental change; the established parties have infinite vulnerabilities. And, of course, we have the issues on our side. And importantly Bernie proved that you can really grass-roots finance a movement.

We can, with 100% certainty, predict that the Democrats will choose the same strategy against Trump that they did against Bush, simply and totally negative with nothing to offer. They are hoping to regain power as the anti-Trump party. It won't work this time for the same reason that it didn't work in the election. Trump is a chameleon and way smarter than them. He knows how to sell and is willing to bend the truth. The Democrats only know how to bend the truth, so no advantage there.

I agree with the essayist, Alligator Ed, concentrate on one issue for now, single payer. The Republicans and the Democrats have been caught in a complete quagmire because neither is principled or in touch with the people. A single candidate with principle and an internet outreach could collect a significant war-chest. People would contribute to this cause, it's huge.

I can't stress enough that people want to hear that a candidate has a solution to their problems. Trump understands that, combined with his reality-challenged vision of the world, was able to get his message across. He came on as a preacher on fire.

We should not be afraid of big ideas. Bernie proved this by being upfront about Democratic-Socialism. Oh my god, he used the "S" work and was not immediately rejected. The Bernie bashers, especially in the Democrat Party, predicted doom in the election if Bernie won the primary, because of this label, Socialist. I think that it would have been the opposite. If you are promising to resolve big problems, the people will accept big solutions. We are already 27 years since the collapse of the Soviet Union, I think that the Red Menace scare has lost it's impact, other than with a few cold war wackos, whose brains are portable pickle jars. Many of the concepts/goals of Communism/Socialism are just as valid today as they were at the turn of the 20th century. We have to define a uniquely American political and economic system that draws on the concepts of social and economic justice and mixes these with personal freedoms, rights and responsibilities.

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Capitalism has always been the rule of the people by the oligarchs. You only have two choices, eliminate them or restrict their power.

Mark from Queens's picture

@The Wizard
Socialism tomorrow, Socialism forever."

When explained, and standing apart from the waning (and possibly nonexistent effect on millennials) and lame, fascist, RW/Big Business propaganda for over a hundred years, people are overwhelmingly supportive of its basic principles.

Almost a decade now of recession bordering on Depression, folks are clamoring for a just and dignified system that targets the greedy corruption and criminality of the rich, while shoring up real safety net measures for the working and middle class (who are pretty much the same). All that needs to be done is explain that it will come from responsible accounting of taxes collected going to pay for healthcare for all and higher education, instead of a bloated military budget and off shore tax breaks/subsidies for corporations.

Long past time for real socialism to enter proudly into the political sphere of the United States, just as it is across most of the entire rest of the world.

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"If I should ever die, God forbid, let this be my epitaph:

THE ONLY PROOF HE NEEDED
FOR THE EXISTENCE OF GOD
WAS MUSIC"

- Kurt Vonnegut

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@Mark from Queens I'm with you.
Of course, there's a lot of nuts-and-bolts work to be done to make that sort of movement viable. For one thing, we need to focus not only on what positions are right for us to take, but what the opposition is likely to do to us to squelch our message, and plan accordingly.

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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

Alligator Ed's picture

@Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal will be immediately obvious. If we talk about Healthcare, the Establishment cannot say "Russia". Any feeble counter-arguments to MFA/SP will be easily overcome because there are no counter-arguments which do not reek of oligarchic enrichment. Establishment Dems and Repugnants will be easily demonstrated to be the shills they already are. In fact every day the ACA grows less affordable or the Republican substitute is seen to much crueler is another day in which our argument gets stronger. We get stronger when the enemy position fails. Yes. I said enemy.

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ggersh's picture

@Mark from Queens who would vehemently argue with you about this

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Yes the DHS’s Ministry of Truth is headed by a weird ridiculous person. Please don’t let that distract from the vastly more significant fact that the DHS has a Ministry of Truth.

Caitlin

Alligator Ed's picture

@Mark from Queens Putting many of these bastards in prison where they belong may give the elitists something to worry about besides money: their own skins. I wonder how they would like nice prison tats on their faces permanently marking them for the world to know who the hell they are.

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Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@The Wizard If you're gonna concentrate on it, at least call it Medicare for all or health care for all.

Actually, I'd say move the Overton Window and agitate for a national health service. Fuck this insurance bullshit.

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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

Alligator Ed's picture

@Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal Medicare-for-all is just fine. We can leave out "single payer" during campaigns, pausing to explain this when queried. Too many issues (even if only one more like "single-payer") may prove dilution to the desired effect. The desired effect is not just to get MFA/SP but to pry apart the sandstone idols of the Monetarist Religion. Splinter first, then pulverize.

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lotlizard's picture

@Alligator Ed say they want a revolution, yet can’t bring themselves to criticize, or demand an audit of, the Federal Reserve Bank.

It’s as if a big part of what passes for the Left takes it on faith that, although big banks are bad, the Fed and the monetary system it presides over is perfect, and the only people who would find fault with the Fed or want to end it (Ron Paul, etc.) are right-wing nutjobs.

“Resist! Fight for the revolution! But the Fed and its insider bankers and economists are good! Lay off the Fed! Never knock the Fed!”

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PriceRip's picture

@lotlizard

          It is part of my "job description" but I get push-back. Any criticism is seen as either buttressing the stupidity of the anti-science crowd, or as airing our dirty laundry in the public square.

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Alligator Ed's picture

@PriceRip laundry--and clothespins. Whadda country we live in. Tell lies with impunity but go to prison for telling the truth.

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Alligator Ed's picture

@The Wizard Thanks for the kind words, Wizard. You supplied a nice phrase I like:

Trump is a chameleon and way smarter than them. He knows how to sell and is willing to bend the truth. The Democrats only know how to bend the truth, so no advantage there.

Establishment Dems only know two themes:
1. We ain't Trump
2. Dems don't need to change.

They are too enmeshed in their greedy blindness to realize this is precisely what cost them 2016, to say nothing of the worst presidential candidate ever. If not Hillary, they will offer tepid teas such as Gellibrand, a prettier face than the equally awful Schumer primarily because she is a corporatist female; how is that different than Clinton? Only because Gilllibrand doesn't have a long criminal record. Or they might throw us Cory Booker, because he's black; but he is an equally horrible opportunist with absolutely no moral basis than money.

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snoopydawg's picture

@Alligator Ed
election? Or all the seats that they have lost during Obama's tenures? I think that they are fully aware of what so many of us want. There's no way that they could have missed the crowds at Bernie's speeches and they have to know why so many of us didn't and wouldn't vote for Hillary.
They know how angry we are at them for their 06 betrayal and their Obama's betrayal the last 8 years.
If they don't win re election then they know that they can find a cushy job on K Street or anywhere else they want.
Nope, they are not blind to the anger of many of us. But they know that they still will have people who will vote for them regardless of what they do or don't do.

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It is not until the tide goes out that you discover who has been swimming naked.

Alligator Ed's picture

@snoopydawg The Democratic Party charade will only persist as long as they receive copious donor money. When attrition makes the Dems no longer politically potent, the money will dry up. See for example the Clinton Global Initiative money-laundering scheme.

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snoopydawg's picture

@Alligator Ed
Have you heard how much money the DP received after the republicans passed their health care bill? $2 million and $1 million of that came from DK. They are going to use it on the 2018 elections.
The democrats are thinking that people are going to vote for them because of what the republicans have done.
It's going to be 2006 all over again. Maybe this time Pelosi will use some of the powder she has been keeping dry Smile

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It is not until the tide goes out that you discover who has been swimming naked.

Alligator Ed's picture

@snoopydawg Mosking

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I'm sick of all of them, TYT mostly. Too much bull shit, too much lesser of evil, too much bluster, and not enough blood lust. As long as they are trying to protect the Democratic Party from total destruction, they aren't going to reform squat. Pelosi needs to be brought down in the primary, general, or her own bedroom - where ever and however they can do it. Until they win something, they are nothing and close only counts in horseshoes.

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"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon

Alligator Ed's picture

@dkmich By that time she may have forgotten where her polling place is. But she will still know where the feeding trough in DC is.

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Lookout's picture

but actually climate change is the factor that may spell the extinction of the species.

My thought along these lines of finding a unifying political theme is that we need a "Corporations are screwing you and have taken over your country" campaign. They have bought the politicians lock stock and system and are running the country for their profit screwing workers in the process.

I think this approach would be broader based and easier to relate to working people. Health care would be one aspect of corporation over citizens.

Our country equates democracy with capitalism. We need to uncouple that understanding.

Thanks for your thought provoking essay.

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“Until justice rolls down like water and righteousness like a mighty stream.”

@Lookout
but I think what Alligator is going for is a single, unifying point that would be most persuasive to the general public - one that addresses both progressives' concerns for the common good, and answers the eternal conservative question, "What's in it for me?".

I'm less convinced of the viability of installing stealth progressives or libertarians within the duopoly parties. Sanders' popularity doesn't mean shit to the Democratic Party (he is, admittedly, an "outsider"), and Tulsi Gabbard is taking a lot of heat for her commitment to public (as opposed to corporate) service, but I'm certainly in favor of trying anything and everything. Funny how having nothing left to lose works out like that.

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Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@FutureNow What we should run on is the end of democracy. Yes, I know that we never had one, but everybody outside a tiny rarefied group of political scholars and activists calls what we had before this velvet coup "democracy;" you can say "the republic" if you want, but more people will understand you if you say "democracy."

Everyone understands what the real problem is: the real problem is that nobody has a say in what happens except a tiny elite, and that tiny elite appears to be insane and out for our hides.

Everyone will get that if you say it, but there has to be some recourse, some plan, some way to get power to counter that phenomenon.

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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

riverlover's picture

@Lookout "My thought along these lines of finding a unifying political theme is that we need a "Corporations are screwing you and have taken over your country" campaign. They have bought the politicians lock stock and system and are running the country for their profit screwing workers in the process.

I think this approach would be broader based and easier to relate to working people. Health care would be one aspect of corporation over citizens.

Our country equates democracy with capitalism. We need to uncouple that understanding."

The defintition now is not working people, just people. I also understand the need to be univeralist NOW. Cinco de Mayo is a Mexican beer-fest for some in the US, but in large areas of the country there are Mexicans on your roof. Hot and dirty, I hope you supply water to them.

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Hey! my dear friends or soon-to-be's, JtC could use the donations to keep this site functioning for those of us who can still see the life preserver or flotsam in the water.

Alligator Ed's picture

@riverlover One message. Strong. Indisputable. IMMEDIATELY popular across the entire spectrum.

I agree with many of the commentators here about many other social ills needing correction. But Health Care and the lack of it has aroused people of all political affiliations like no other. Climate change, income inequality, etc. are not sufficiently potent to galvanize the population. This ONE issue will created a tidal wave overwhelming weak candidates and perhaps even some of the stronger ones.

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Alligator Ed's picture

@Lookout MUST be avoided. Climate change is just too remote, even if already happening. When you have a gallbladder attack and can't get medical care, that immediately resonates. It resonates on the patient and on his/her family.

Health Care reform NOW is the best unifying tactic. Let us not divert the message to something, which although true, lacks the immediacy and potency of MFA/SP.

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Mark from Queens's picture

for past two days.

Have been bouncing around doing research, prompted by both a recent, startling Thomas Frank doublespeak quote and the unmasked faux progressivism of the TYT discussion about the #DNCFraudLawsuit of which you speak.

Also been looking at a lot of clips about the voter suppression and electoral fraud of the primary, specifically in NY. There's some hair-raising shit there. It needs to be documented/chronicled for posterity so that no one forgets, especially as the Neoliberal scum work their lapdog minions in the MSM, desperately clinging to the hope the public will continue to go along with their red herring narratives of Russia/Putin/BernieBros/Faux Feminism/the Resistance™, the intention of which is clearly to send the true history of what happened down the Memory Hole.

Thanks for putting this together, AE. I've been working on something similar and hope to have it finished today.

Seems to me it's become more and more incumbent on us to be vigilant citizen watchdogs and journalists, watching those who we think are allies, exposing untruths/propaganda and sharing developing real news about anything that would advance the issues of C99.

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"If I should ever die, God forbid, let this be my epitaph:

THE ONLY PROOF HE NEEDED
FOR THE EXISTENCE OF GOD
WAS MUSIC"

- Kurt Vonnegut

Alligator Ed's picture

@Mark from Queens These lead to nowhere fast. One message. One issue. Immediate. Powerful. Direct.

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I have been thinking about this as well and was actually working on an essay yesterday to post today.

It is interesting how things come together. I log on this morning to three essays, yours, Big Al's, and gjohnsit's all referring to the fact that it is time for us to do something and forget the Dems.

I hope my little - okay, long addition measures up. Smile

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Yaldabaoth, Saklas I'm calling you. Samael. You're not alone. I said, you're not alone, in your darkness. You're not alone, baby. You're not alone. "Original Sinsuality" Tori Amos

Bisbonian's picture

and I agree this may be the best issue to unite people behind. Unfortunately, the Dems have spent a LOT of time and effort convincing their loyalists that "THE REPUBLICANS ARE TAKING AWAY OBAMACARE, THE GREATEST HEALTHCARE PROVIDER IN THE HISTORY OF THE UNIVERSE!!", and the loyalists are, of course, lapping it up. Slurp Slurp. Yes, we need to convince them there is something much better; something that they can sink their teeth into...but most are not so well equipped as you.

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"I’m a human being, first and foremost, and as such I’m for whoever and whatever benefits humanity as a whole.” —Malcolm X

@Bisbonian @Bisbonian When the left defends corporate healthcare against corporate healthcare, they are beyond useless. Be prepared for more ramped up protests by the Dem establishment against the GOP establishment.

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"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon

Alligator Ed's picture

@Bisbonian Killary and her acolytes parroting that Bernie would dismantle the ACA and "start from scratch" was and still is hypocritical bullshit. Medicare has been around for 50 years and has been running smoothly ever since. How exactly is switching the entire population over to MFA "starting from scratch"? And the "Affordable Care Act is a farce. It ceased being affordable for most people at least two years ago. The new Republican bill, should it pass the Senate, will indeed be much worse. But the ACA is doomed financially AND politically. The people know this. The Bubble-heads in DC don't know this.

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@Alligator Ed @Alligator Ed

The Senate is about to rewrite, hopefully, the atrocious new Health Bill. I'm sure if many of Trump's supporters were informed about it, they would loudly get behind #MedicareForAll, as would, of course, Senator Sanders and all of his supporters. Eventually the more brainwashed Democrats will come along too, they'll have to. Now Trump has just praised Australia's health system, which is basically, #MedicareForAll. The time is now for #MedicareForAll.

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Beware the bullshit factories.

MsGrin's picture

...you might have noticed that Jane Sanders mentioned a couple days ago that the entrenched resistance to change of the DNC may necessitate a third party.

You know I think anyone who has to put 'sane' in their title likely isn't, but that's a quibble. Yes, Cenk trotted over to the darkish side, although I suspect he'd come back if he felt there was something viable to back, but the betrayal to what he had stood for is disappointing. They have dismissed the Beck's lawsuit on behalf of all the Bernie donors, and the DNC lawyers are making a mess of their client to me, at any rate.

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'What we are left with is an agency mandated to ensure transparency and disclosure that is actually working to keep the public in the dark' - Ann M. Ravel, former FEC member

Alligator Ed's picture

@MsGrin You have and that's fine by me. Cenk is seeming more and more an opportunist rather than a principled Progressive spokesman. Jordan Chariton and Nomiki Konst are great. The rest not so much. I think Jimmy Dore would have taken a swipe at TYT's obscene defense of DNC corruption if he wasn't on such good terms with Cenk.

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@MsGrin he is only concerned with himself and his positioning in the political sphere. He is the youtube version of markos. Their only concerns are themselves. They traffic in lazy and false cliches and are driven by self-interest, not politics and certainly not principle. Cenk's general election argument that we should vote for hillary (even in safe states)and then push her to the left is a perfect example of his lack of intellectual capacity. He staked that position, not out of conviction, but out of self-interest. He saw a clinton presidency and he did not want to be marginalized as "far left" for opposing her. He wanted to maintain his position as a voice of reason (at least in his own mind).

Cenk is a gas bag with very little (if any) insight. He and his middlebrow cronies just spout the lazy common wisdom on a daily basis. Does anyone buy it?

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Alligator Ed's picture

@orestes

He is the youtube version of markos. Their only concerns are themselves.

I saw a video from him from DC in which he boasted about how big HE was. Bigger than CNN on line. WTF do I care? I would rather see honest discussion of affairs from H.A. Goodman, Tim Black, Sane Progressive, Humanist Report. I don't want someone boasting about how big HE is. Shades of HER.

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is watching and listening to these ongoing discussions. You'll be hearing from us.

Please everyone, proceed with your thoughts. The time is now.

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Alligator Ed's picture

@JtC Glad everyone is watching. The Time is Now! The issue is MFA/SP!

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And step two is dropping the co-pay from 20% to something near zero. Maybe an income based co-pay. If you are a millionaire, you can pay the 20%. If you subsist on $1100 a month SS, your co-pay is zero.

Not so sure about Bernie. I have blasted him as a sell out on this blog, but now I think he is playing a more complicated game. He's been in Washington a long time and knows the tricks. Take this tour with Perez. Just by contrast he is making the Left look better and the DNC look worse. I rejoice at reports of Perez being booed.

Starting a Third Party is hard. And listening to people here, I know it will never have broad based support by pushing Communism, Islamic terrorism, and pacifism. Taking over an established party is better. I do think that taking over the Republican Party might be easier. They are already known as pro-business religious fanatics. Their leadership is widely hated for this. They have come to power by courting the white working class that the Democrats spurned. Those voters can achieve a revolution in the (R) party. Once it was the party of Lincoln and Teddy Roosevelt. It could be again.

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I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.

Alligator Ed's picture

@The Voice In the Wilderness My essay did not include elements of tactics in achieving Duopoly destruction for that would only have accomplished two things.

1. Made the essay unwieldy

2. Diluted the message: One issue. One Cause. NOW

Expect another essay forthcoming on my ideas for accomplishing this long-overdue Duopoly destruct.

One issue. One Cause. NOW

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Azazello's picture

We don't yet know how things will play out. I would not write off any progressive as being establishment just yet, not Cenk and certainly not Bernie. A person's position on LOTE in the last election is not, by itself, a reason to lose confidence in that person. If you'll remember, Cenk was run off a certain website by the commentariat. That says something about his integrity. Here's another vid:

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We wanted decent healthcare, a living wage and free college.
The Democrats gave us Biden and war instead.

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@Azazello Cenk ignored the election fraud, but he did more than that: he also spread the Russia meme.
Cenk is currently not reliable. Therefore he should be set aside until such time as conditions change.

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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

Azazello's picture

@Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal
Naked capitalism, by the way, is a still great way to stay informed regardless of Yves' controversial post on war. I check her links every morning just like I check the Evening Blues every night.

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We wanted decent healthcare, a living wage and free college.
The Democrats gave us Biden and war instead.

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@Azazello I'm not suggesting restrictions on what people read--sorry for having stated it clumsily.
I'm suggesting that people approach both Yves and Cenk with serious skepticism. IMO, they are not currently capable of solidarity with anyone wanting to change or remove the current establishment. I'll say more on this later, but I gotta pry myself out of the tubes and go meet my Mom.

Just wanted to say I would never try to impose restrictions on people's choices of what data to consume, even the data I know is poisonous; I might tell people it's poisonous and probably will harm them if they consume too much of it, but it's always their choice, not mine.

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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

Alligator Ed's picture

@Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal The NSA knows what you say and where you live. I am safe because I already live in a swamp.

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Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@Alligator Ed Just out of curiosity, did I say something in that last comment that would have set them off?

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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

Alligator Ed's picture

@Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal Never, ever, ever do that again!

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Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@Alligator Ed Oh, I see. The "Princess and the Pea" establishment.

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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

thanatokephaloides's picture

@Azazello

Naked capitalism, by the way, is a still great way to stay informed regardless of Yves' controversial post on war.

I don't think Naked Capitalism is lost, not yet. They dropped a ball. It happens. Nobody, no matter how good, gets it right all the time. And that applies to individual writers as well as blogs, publications, etc.

Smile

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"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar

"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@thanatokephaloides They're using the DLC argument. That's not dropping the ball. That's going to the other side.

That doesn't mean they can't also provide accurate and useful data, of course. It means that the framework into which they insert that data is compromised. Their overarching notion of what the United States is and how ordinary people can and should affect it is compromised.

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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

thanatokephaloides's picture

@Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal

Cenk is currently not reliable. Therefore he should be set aside until such time as conditions change.

Or until he does, "bringing forth fruits meet for repentance" as the Christian Scriptures at Matthew 3:8 puts it so well!

Wink

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"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar

"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides

Alligator Ed's picture

@thanatokephaloides Maybe we should withhold final judgement until then--but I remain skeptical.

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thanatokephaloides's picture

@Alligator Ed

Cenk has promised "something Big" on May 10. Maybe we should withhold final judgment until then--but I remain skeptical.

Me too. Although one thing going for him is that his ability to sell us out, in the long run, is limited by the company he keeps. One instance: Ana Kasparian's willingness to buy into the recent Dem bullshit is notoriously small. And she's quite willing to call Cenk out when he tries throwing shit.

Cenk could yet show himself to be on our side for real. But I, for one, would take some convincing.

Wink

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"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar

"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides

Strife Delivery's picture

@thanatokephaloides Yeah, sorry, she always annoyed me.

Most of them actually annoy me. I try watching them, and they are just smarmy, loud, and sometimes obnoxious.

Jordan the journalist dude seems ok in my eyes.

Just seems like a group of loud college kids who have an obsessive need to interrupt each other all the time. Trying to watch any group interaction with them is difficult.

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thanatokephaloides's picture

@Strife Delivery

Yeah, sorry, she [Ana Kasparian] always annoyed me.

Not denied. TYT can be downright grating at times.

In fact, my whole point was based on Ms. Kasparian's willingness to annoy Cenk Uygur himself rather than just fold and knuckle under.

I think that's why she has no news hour of her own. The PTB know they're getting no Rachel Maddow out of this one.

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"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar

"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides

@Strife Delivery and they're so average. They're not witty or clever or very articulate or insightful. They're as reductive in their blather as most mainstream tv: heavy reliance on common wisdom and acceptance of underlying propositions without ever exploring the validity of either.

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Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@Alligator Ed I'm always willing to revise based on new evidence.

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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

Dissidents are dropping like flies. We just lost Naked Capitalism, which just made one of the stupidest arguments ever about war.

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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

ZimInSeattle's picture

reform the DNC. Hopefully he will come to that conclusion sooner rather than later. At least Our Revolution is promoting progressives regardless of party affiliation. We have reached critical mass in this country on healthcare and climate change globally. The time is ripe for revolution.

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"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." - JFK | "The more I see of the moneyed peoples, the more I understand the guillotine." - G. B. Shaw Bernie/Tulsi 2020

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

fatal flaws, though I see where you're going with it, and I have no objection to using elections as a strategic tool, in principle.

First, I'm not sure that we will be able to use the system that way now that DHS controls our elections, especially at the federal level. You might say, let's try it and see, but elections, like wars, involve massive amounts of resources. If we spend those resources and get nothing, it will be like a repetition of 2016 and 2004.

Second, there's the problem of what happens to those few individuals once they reach DC and become part of a huge, corrupt, sociopathic structure. In other words, a repetition of 2006 and 2008. Who are we going to select to go up there into the shark tank?

We should understand that anyone up there who dissents will have massive amounts of pressure brought to bear upon them. We underestimate this as a general habit, and often seem to resent discussion of it. However, the Podesta emails revealed that the Clinton wing--which is really indistinguishable from the DNC/party itself--knew from the beginning that it had "leverage" on Sanders and thus could rein him in when necessary.

You're asking people to make themselves targets--maybe not of gunfire, but targets nonetheless. IMO, we need to stop sending people into the lion's den while pretending that we're sending them into a Republic that's gone a bit off track and needs to be shown the error of its ways.

If we can deal with both those political realities--DHS controlling our electoral process and confronting the very real pressure that's going to be put on any dissident politician--then I'm all for it. If we can't, then we need to find another way to get people's attention. Because that's really all elections are going to get us at this point. It lifts a person high up enough that they can be seen.

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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

Alligator Ed's picture

@Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal @Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal but for another essay, which I hope to write soon. But for now, an attitude of inherent pessimism will accomplish nothing. You cannot win if you do not play!

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Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@Alligator Ed I didn't intend pessimism. I'm looking for a discussion of strategy that examines many options. Is there a way we can work around those obstacles? What would that look like? If there isn't, what would an alternative route look like?

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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

Alligator Ed's picture

@Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal by Dark Ultra Viola.

We need a strategy.

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ZimInSeattle's picture

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"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." - JFK | "The more I see of the moneyed peoples, the more I understand the guillotine." - G. B. Shaw Bernie/Tulsi 2020

Unabashed Liberal's picture

@ZimInSeattle

COOPER: Your colleague, Senator Lindsey Graham, he tweeted today, he said, "I believe it may take Obamacare's collapse before the parties are willing to work together in a bipartisan manner." Would you work with Republicans like Senator Graham on this bill in the Senate or is this something you don't want any part of?

SANDERS: No, of course. I mean the goal is how do we guarantee health care to all people without spending, as we do today, almost twice as much per capita? That's the goal. How do we have a cost if health care system where we put our emphasis on disease prevention where we can guarantee health care to all Americans? And I'm prepared to work with Lindsey Graham and anybody else towards that goal.

and,

COOPER: How important is it for you to get a CBO score from the Congressional Budget Office?

SANDERS: Obviously, it's enormously -- you know, Anderson, one of the many outrages that we saw today is when you are dealing with legislation that impacts one-seventh of the United States economy. This is huge. Don't you think maybe there might have been a hearing or to discuss the implications of this legislation? These guys put it together in a few weeks time, zero hearings, they didn't hear from the American Medical Association who oppose this legislation, they didn't hear from the hospitals that oppose this legislation or didn't hear from the AARP, largest senior group in America who opposes this legislation because it would be a disaster for older workers.

I mean, you don't deal with one-seventh of the economy in a couple of weeks without one public hearing. It is an embarrassment. So we're going to go into Senate, start from zero and hopefully come up with legislation that is improves on Obamacare. Hopefully, we'll guarantee health care to all of our people and do it in a more cost effective way.

My point being that IF the CounterPunch piece is correct, folks might be inadvertently working at cross-purposes with Senator Sanders. Which is why it might be a good idea to try to totally separate any movement from a politician(s), since doing so, might help avoid bitter divisions, later.

Just my 2 cents - good luck!

Pleasantry

Mollie


"I think dogs are the most amazing creatures--they give unconditional love. For me, they are the role model for being alive."--Gilda Radner

"If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die, I want to go where they went."--Will Rogers

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Everyone thinks they have the best dog, and none of them are wrong.

Alligator Ed's picture

@Unabashed Liberal

My point being that IF the CounterPunch piece is correct, folks might be inadvertently working at cross-purposes with Senator Sanders. Which is why it might be a good idea to try to totally separate any movement from a politician(s), since doing so, might help avoid bitter divisions, later.

The ACA is irredeemable just like Clinton's conscience (if she ever had one). Shoring up the ACA is a useless as building a sand castle at the edge of a beach at low tide.

One Cause. One Issue. NOW

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Unabashed Liberal's picture

@Alligator Ed

this excellent essay!

I totally agree with your premise that we need to concentrate on an unifying issue, and it's hard to think of one more worthy than providing comprehensive and expanded MFA.

If I may borrow your saying,

One Cause. One Issue. NOW

Pleasantry

Mollie


"I think dogs are the most amazing creatures--they give unconditional love. For me, they are the role model for being alive."--Gilda Radner

"If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die, I want to go where they went."--Will Rogers

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Everyone thinks they have the best dog, and none of them are wrong.

Alligator Ed's picture

@ZimInSeattle Bernie has deviated from the one unifying issue of the entire electorate. I don't care who said that "saving" the ACA is a winning point. The ACA is a terminal cancer patient starving because the cancer eats all the nutrients which should be going to feed the sufferer herself.

One Cause. One Issue. NOW

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mimi's picture

seems to have changed similar to how Sanders changed when he sat in the DNC convention and Clinton was declared the winner of the primaries and Sanders stone-facedly announced that everyone has to unite behind Hillary Clinton now. He looked like a scared man, who thought he had to behave. Cenk Uygur looks to me similarly and is behaving in the same fashion.

I can't follow your discussion of what Cenk said and what his critics said (the Bastard guy talks pretty much up to standard of his name), but just post my feelings according to Cenk's body language.

I ran into this video from C-SPAN, when Cenk Uygur very well behaved, (with hands folded) said that he voted for Bernie in the Primaries but voted for Clinton in the presidential election in November. (TC 1:59) Well, ok, that's all there is to say no matter what kind of justification he would give for that.

I am sorry I couldn't follow for a long period of time like eight month or so what is going on in US-land. But I remember Cenk Uygyr a little bit more ranty, bosting etc. Now he is praising his network and himself and behaves like a man who would like to be taken serious by C-SPAN folks. (I used to listen to that C-SPAN monrning broadcast for quite some time in the pas,t more for what kind of questions the callers posted and the answers to those got than anything else - made me getting to know Americans better).

I am disappointed about Cenk's changing the flag, but I don't think, it's reason enough on the long run to throw him under the bus. He still tries to be somewhat honest. (As well as Sanders).

I think Hillary Clinton's time to leave the stage has come, if she (and her daughter) wants it or not. Therefore it doesn't make a lot of sense to me to still care that Cenk (and Sanders) were losers when they both supported her. It's history imo, time to get over it (and this other place you love so much, as well) and leave it behind.

Here is the video:

Whatever it's worth, if I had a vote in this, I would prefer you create a new movement and party separate from the Democrats. The whole whining and discussions about how bad was this, and who was to blame, and all the quarrels back and forth, and the whole shebang is very tiring, very distracting from issues and nobody overseas has an idea of all of the internal stuff aside from people in the media who follow it.

Time to focus on the issues to fight for in the future to come. Sometimes I wished you would hear how folks on the streets in Europe talk about Trump and how they don't talk at all about Clinton and have not really understood what Obama did and was all about and that nobody cares about them. It's Trump times now. They really "care" for him... sigh.

PS and the word "establishment" imo doesn't cut it. It's too nice a word, every little guy likes to be a little bit "established". "billionaire deep state loving politician" is clearer... at least to me.:-)

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mimi

Alligator Ed's picture

@mimi mainly from a non-US viewpoint. But composure is not a measure of validity. Look how composed Killary was in most of her campaign appearances. Yet she is EVIL!

You said:

the word "establishment" imo doesn't cut it. It's too nice a word, every little guy likes to be a little bit "established". "billionaire deep state loving politician" is clearer..

The common people in the USA understand quite well the venality of "the Establishment". They do not need to have it explained to them. Any word can be corrupted or misused. The Establishment in modern political context is well-understood.

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mimi's picture

@Alligator Ed @Alligator Ed
I wasn't aware I meant or said this with my words. I thought I tried to say that with all that composure you could observe, it was quite apparent that they failed morally and their arguments were certainly not valid in my mind.

Sorry for having lectured over the word establishment. To me it sounds too docile.

Those guys in the establishment class of political class of movers and shakers and analysts could be called something more truthful and confrontational. May be traitors to the human spirit and social needs of the 99 percent.

I guess being far removed from the day to day happening over in the US and being confronted with the day to day reactions over here, I find other issues more likely to influence what happens in the US.

Again, sorry for giving my 0.02 euro.

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mimi

Alligator Ed's picture

@mimi I could have called the Elite motherfucking rat-bastards, which would be a truer description than "Establishment" but I have a pristine reputation to uphold.

Mosking

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mimi's picture

@Alligator Ed
Mail 1
a letter with no words ... says it all.

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mimi

Republicans around issues, like Medicare for All, uncontaminated water, clean air, clean elections, etc. (I bet no one in Flint waited to find out what establishment Republicans or establishment Democrats had to say about their water. They rose up, united against a corrupt government.)

Divide et impera. Divide and rule. We let them divide us, bitterly. Heck, we helped them divide us. We must be about the 100%, not the 50%.

And, yes, the issue presenting right now is affording for medical care, whether it's Jimmy Kimmel's baby or yours. Maybe Joe Walsh cannot relate to that, but I think Americans can.

Obamacare is indeed collapsing, so don't let that cause a division. Just admit it and move on. And no, Democrats: Fixing Obamacare, even if such a thing is possible, is not the way to go. Medicare for All, which Conyers has been seeking for a dozen years, give or take, is the ONLY way to go.

As part of the dumbing down of America, aided greatly by establishment media, media has been fascinated by which song the puerile Democrats sang after the soul-less Republicans voted for Ryancare than we hear about what should happen now. And, btw, when a member of media asked a Democratic member of the House if he had sung along, he ignored her. However, when he finished speaking, the dumbass persisted, asking him again.

He replied, No, he had not. He's a doctor. He's had to pronounce people dead. He doesn't take this lightly. Good grief, a sane person. How refreshing. Neither should his colleagues have acted as though they were at a high school football game taunting the other team. If their ability to get their health care had been voted out, I can almost guaranty their reaction would have been much closer to that of the doctor. Idiots!

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Unabashed Liberal's picture

@HenryAWallace

and jump together,' IMO, there will be no dismantling the ACA, at least for decades.

So, I would think that the most immediate push or action should be to demand that Democrats NOT help Republicans draft a 'new ACA, or AHCA bill' in the Senate.

Once that happens, it will give the bipartisan Leadership, and rank-and-file give 'cover,' therefore, there'll be no reason for them to consider a single-payer system, much less one like the NHS.

(Remember, the new VA Director, Dr Shulkin, has announced only days ago that he is aggressively moving to literally dismantle the VA health care system, as we know it. IOW, he's considering selling off the brick and mortar assets, and contracting out the bulk of medical services to the private sector.)

It's time to get serious, IMO. We may not have more than a several months (if that), from what I'm hearing. McConnell has already appointed a working group to bypass 'regular order' (committees). He wants to fast track the bill, so they can move on to tax reform, infrastructure, etc.

Help

Mollie


"I think dogs are the most amazing creatures--they give unconditional love. For me, they are the role model for being alive."--Gilda Radner

"If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die, I want to go where they went."--Will Rogers

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Everyone thinks they have the best dog, and none of them are wrong.

@Unabashed Liberal

dreams of the Pete Petersons and David Koch's of the US.

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Alligator Ed's picture

@HenryAWallace

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Alligator Ed's picture

@HenryAWallace Uniting the various groups, even if artificially segregated from each other, is precisely the reason for one strong unequivocal measure: MFA/SP. It is hard to outflank an issue that has no sides. There is either direct confrontation or direct acceptance. Healthcare for all is that issue.

He's a doctor. He's had to pronounce people dead.

I am a physician and I have had the extremely unpleasant task to inform families of the death of their loved ones. It is never easy. Avoidable deaths are useless at best. War-related and insurance-deprivation-related deaths are evil.

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Sometimes, the best way to proceed is to do nothing at all. The death of the DNC-Third Way has been a long time coming. If a nascent third party challenges it, the Dems and their deep state patrons will use the same dirty, slime-ball tactics they used against Bernie, Tulsi Gabbard, Nina Turner, any one at all who threatens their hegemony and destroy them. But if they keep doing the same old, same old (and they will), they'll destroy themselves from within. Then we will rise up.

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Alligator Ed's picture

@Writerinres but we must control the direction of its fall. Just as tree cutters cutting down a tree must determine in advance in which direction to which it should fall, we must lay a Progressive elected base, no matter how small to give the Democratic demise a direction which will not crush Progressives as well as the Corruptocrats.

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I think that given two Sophie's Choice we had in November is not unreasonable to decide that Clinton might be less dangerous than Trump; we'll never know for sure since the public face or both was purely an act. Thus I think it's somewhat shaky to leave someone a sp sellout for fearing a Trump victory---that's much different from the "most qualified candidate every" Clintonistas.

Similarly the choice between DemExit vs DemEnter strategies going forward it's not clear cut either, at this point in time. Far better to accept that the right path, if it exists, is not clear and try to identify allies or fellow travelers than to adopt a metaphorical ."shoot first and all questions later"approach.

Only a Sith deals in absolutes---Obi-Wan Kenobe

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PriceRip's picture

@MinuteMan

          Same song different verse.

          None of the party faithful have indicated any understanding of what has transpired.

          Anyone wanting to argue there is any hope for the democratic party will have to deal honestly and forthrightly with its history and continued intransigents.

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@PriceRip

lol.

by the way,in another post I referred to your point about the importance of the mental set of individuals in Congress and leadership.

We must find a way to help them "get their hearts right".
Is there anything short of violence that has a chance of getting their attention?
They care about their money and comfort. If we can make this a losing proposition for them on those terms we mght win.

But if they continue to enjoy the fruits of their "labor", they will continue to sell us out.

thx. read your comments with interest.

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PriceRip's picture

@irishking

          Perhaps that would have been more correcter english.

          "Is there anything short of violence ... ?" I have hopes and fears in this regard. If it comes to violence I know I will not reap the "benefits" nor would I care to survive such a process.

          On the hopey-changey side: Most americans (as in the good 'ol USofA americans) are rather artless lacking the requisite skills to understand the martial arts. Hence, I actually think the process can be accomplished without violence per se. Meaningful change will involve some rather unpleasant confrontations, to say the least. As you stated, the key is to "... make this a losing proposition for them ...". The fact that many (a very small percent of many is still many) will be threatened makes this appear to be a daunting task. It's more a complicated process than it is anything else. And as I have said before, the challenge is to discover that one thing that triggers a series of processes that make the (positive) outcome inevitable. And as usual, I must note, I have only seen success in various personal conflicts and local/regional actions, never on a larger scale.

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Alligator Ed's picture

@PriceRip or others.

I have only seen success in various personal conflicts and local/regional actions, never on a larger scale.

When enough people in different regions do battle with TPTB as you have locally, a great deal of change will be effected. When enough change accumulates, say 10%, then a tipping point of the status quo may be achieved.

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Alligator Ed's picture

@MinuteMan

Far better to accept that the right path, if it exists, is not clear and try to identify allies or fellow travelers

.

I repeat again: One Cause. One issue. NOW

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riverlover's picture

@Alligator Ed to launch targeted attacks, broadside. We can do this. KIS (keep it simple), citizen!

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Hey! my dear friends or soon-to-be's, JtC could use the donations to keep this site functioning for those of us who can still see the life preserver or flotsam in the water.

Alligator Ed's picture

@riverlover We have a starting point. Ready-made. No questions about "purity". No room for deflection.

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Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

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