Ha- Talking Points Memo Just Had An Epiphany

The coronation process hits another road block

WASHINGTON (AP) — Donald Trump's best ally in winning over skeptical Republicans is turning out to be Hillary Clinton.

Having overcome a multimillion-dollar "Never Trump" campaign aimed at blocking him from the Republican nomination, he's now benefiting from a wave of GOP donors, party leaders, voters and conservative groups that are uniting under a new banner: "Never Hillary."

"Nothing unites Republicans better than a Clinton," says Scott Reed, a political strategist for the U.S. Chamber of Commerce who has advised previous GOP campaigns. While Reed says there remain "many unknowns" about Trump, he adds that "the knowns about Hillary are very powerful motivators to Republicans."

Thanks to Republicans' deep disdain for the likely Democratic nominee, Trump is piling up those kinds of lukewarm GOP endorsements.

Told you so in 08 and then most of the Democratic leaning blogs knew that to be the case, they also wrote about why she was so disliked.

They put the blinkers on from day one this time around and virtually unanimously declared her inevitable. The Democtatic Party stood aside presuming a coronation. My Senator from the tiny State of Vermont stood up and said, hey not so fast, most hailed his campaign as an instant loser, then the blogs started to insult their readership.

Funny that the result is still not definitive considering the MSM and the "leftish" blogs constantly trying to undermine my Senator. I for one won't forget this, I have known him for years and he is an honest man, the same cannot in anyway be applied to his opponent.

It is not just the right that distrusts Hillary for various conspiracy laden reasons but independents and the left for reality based reasons know her to be untrustworthy often coupled with a pile of arrogance. This was her time, suck it up liberals and the DNC played a totally partisan part, never did they treat the candidates evenly from the very start. How dare anyone oppose the rightful nominee.

Bernie has lead a remarkable campaign [yes it made some errors] for such a long shot, it shows just how pissed off left leaning independents and the left really are with the Democratic Party. Bernie appealed to our hearts and minds and demonstrated the reality of a money flawed two party system. There is no going back now the tide has turned.

If not in 2016 then 2018, 2020,2022,2024 and beyond either the DP comes with us or it is left behind.

Go Bernie!

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I wonder how many Democratic candidates will use the not Hillary clause

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Hillbilly Dem's picture

Any smarmy Rethug worth his or her salt will tie their Democratic opponent to Hillary. The ads write themselves, 2012 all over again, just substitute "Clinton" for "Obama". I would hate to be a Dem running this November if she's at the top of the ticket.

And all of this can still be avoided if the Democrats nominate Bernie Sanders. Of course, that would mean a) the super delegates take a long look at the November possibilities and wise up or b) Hillary Clinton is either indicted or named as an unindicted co-conspirator.

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"Just call me Hillbilly Dem(exit)."
-H/T to Wavey Davey

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humor/anger. We're talking about the same Hillary Clinton who said in 2008 that she was staying in the race because Bobby Kennedy was assassinated in June. Meaning: anything can happen. My anger is because the first year I was able to vote was 1968, and I lived in Los Angeles. Two or three weeks before that primary, my mother and I went to hear Bobby speak. I was so in love with JFK, and equally in love with RFK. Their assassinations still hurt. And for that self-centered SOB to cavalierly talk about Bobby's assassination really pisses me off. So I cavalierly mentioned that she may be run over by a bus/thrown under a bus. Sorry. Just doesn't sit right with me.

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mjsmeme's picture

being ridiculed and scorned as a pariah, no longer useful to the slime gathered around her. who've invested in her and hate to be associated with a loser, is a more preferable outcome, imho.

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I found her revolting: along with her hiring Mark Penn, from Burson Marsteller: sanitizing human rights abuses around the Globe; then in Columbia: while she pretended to an entirely different set of principles.

Also found that during THAT primary, John McCain had Charlie Black riding HIS bus: BKSH is a subsidiary of Burson Marsteller:

One big lobbying firm/government relations/PR (e.g. psyops) in both ends of a U.S. primary.

Ugh. Now she hires Mook and Wasserman Schultz: two people who have no principles and likely couldn't pass a high school civicis class and have clearly never interested themselves in ethics 101.

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expatjourno's picture

The superdelegates care more about their own power within the Democratic Party than they do about the Democratic Party. It's called the Iron Law of Institutions. They will not allow Bernie to be the nominee.

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Hillary: Making sure women get a bigger piece of the middle-class pie that her neoliberal, DLC, pro-Wall Street, pro-Pentagon, pro-TPP, Republican-lite economic policies are designed to shrink.

why would anyone think they are interested in any type of progressive candidate. They are there to assure Oligarch dominenece

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MissAnn's picture

I am sure you are right. The Dem establishment cannot continue their con game under a Sanders presidency. They can under Trump. They will not switch their votes to Bernie even if by July, Clinton is lagging in the polls against Trump by 20 points. They just won't.

So what is the plan? How do we effect regime change, which is essentially what we need? This can't wait until the next election. MELTING ROADS in India will not wait till the next election, where it's recently been 123 degrees.

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Not for 2016, for 2018. Hillary will have shown her presidential colors by then (or been handily defeated by Trump). Those who held there nose and voted Hillary will be ready to leave the party behind and begin preparing the nest for a true left wing progressive party presidential candidate to run and win in 2020.

Unfortunately, many humans are too selfish and short sighted to do anything about the coming climate disaster until they are neck deep in water and about to drown. Sure, we'll react to it, probably with military force and our second amendment rights, which will only add to the tragedy. The time to to take pro active steps to actually avert a major disaster probably ended sometime between when Jimmy Carter advised turning down the thermostat and wearing cardigans and when Al Gore told us about a certain Inconvenient Truth.

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“ …and when we destroy nature, we diminish our capacity to sense the divine,and understand who God is, and what our own potential is and duties are as human beings.- RFK jr. 8/26/2024

Steven D's picture

She is well past her Buy/Sell date (Well certainly she has been bought a gazillion times over the course of her political career). Not seeing her as a good investment for Democrats this year, despite the $Millions her Billionaire pals have put into her campaign and SuperPacs. Time to cut your losses, Dems.

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"You can't just leave those who created the problem in charge of the solution."---Tyree Scott

Choco8's picture

Republican turnout is going to be fucking EPIC.

We tried to warn them.

Are they printing out the "Don't Blame Me, I Voted For Bernie" bumper stickers yet?

Good to see you LaFem

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Or indeed any Republican candidate

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expatjourno's picture

His strength, which is brutal frankness, goes up against Hillary's weakness, which is shifty prevarication.

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Hillary: Making sure women get a bigger piece of the middle-class pie that her neoliberal, DLC, pro-Wall Street, pro-Pentagon, pro-TPP, Republican-lite economic policies are designed to shrink.

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

the Republicans scared of Trump to her side.
Not sure it's going to work.

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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

...I'm really not sure who she is counting on, but from the way the Clinton campaign has been rather viciously sliming everyone on the left who questions her, it looks more like an attempt to push her critics completely out of the political process. But as I've posted elsewhere, running a campaign on fear, smug inevitability and exclusion is a really poor idea. Unless of course you take a step back and realize it's more important for them to keep one or the other faction of the .01% in control than it is to let the 99% have an actual say.

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expatjourno's picture

If she won't represent our wing of the party, Sanders should.

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Hillary: Making sure women get a bigger piece of the middle-class pie that her neoliberal, DLC, pro-Wall Street, pro-Pentagon, pro-TPP, Republican-lite economic policies are designed to shrink.

gulfgal98's picture

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Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?

“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy

showing a horse race to the end, that is what sells commercials. All the while real internals will show Trump beating Clinton by a large margin.

Of course Bernie would destroy, literally destroy Trump. This is important because even if Hillary beat Trump in a squeaker the meme from the media would be we are a divided country that can't make a decision on anything. Conversely, Bernie wiping out Donald will put that to rest which will allow for progress.

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ngant17's picture

these days, so they can get Hillary elected on any state that needs to swing against Trump.

When you have documented errors/fraud at 99.99%, and optical scanning is 99.99% accurate, if alarms don't go off at that level, there's no point in even trying to fix a problem of that magnitude. The fish rots from the head down.

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Trump's camp is taking an innovative approach while the Hill camp stagnates with old school, washed up, campaign operatives.

Her camp lacks a strategy and a cohesive message and her big donors/supporters are likely getting nervous. An article in the NYT today alluded to this.

Hillary Clinton Struggles to Find Footing in Unusual Race
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/29/us/politics/hillary-clinton-donald-tru...

snips

But early optimism that this would be an easy race is evaporating. In the corridors of Congress, on airplane shuttles between New York and Washington, at donor gatherings and on conference calls, anxiety is spreading through the Democratic Party that Mrs. Clinton is struggling to find her footing.

--
Mrs. Clinton is pressing ahead with a conventional campaign, echoing the 2012 themes used against the Republican nominee that year, Mitt Romney. But Mr. Trump is running a jarringly different crusade
--
The sense of nervousness crystallized this week when Mrs. Clinton devoted campaign events across California to hitting Mr. Trump for not releasing his tax returns and depicting him as a cold corporate titan who profited off the housing crisis. Such charges helped undermine Mr. Romney four years ago. Yet Mrs. Clinton’s remarks received little in-depth coverage in the news media, while cable channels went live with Mr. Trump’s rat-a-tat recitation of “Crooked Hillary,” his favored nickname for her.
___
But it is the campaign’s approach to Mr. Trump that is making even Mrs. Clinton’s most loyal supporters uneasy.

Senator Chuck Schumer of New York is concerned that she lacks a comprehensive strategy to confront Mr. Trump, and has told Democrats that the Clinton campaign must bring on a senior staff member dedicated only to the Trump portfolio.
___
Debates have broken out in Mrs. Clinton’s Brooklyn headquarters over the best approach to take. Some advisers worry that by running against Mr. Trump as she would a traditional Republican candidate, Mrs. Clinton is actually making the reality-television star appear more legitimate.
___
For now, her aides appear to be throwing ideas against a wall to see what sticks, including trying out different monikers after the Democratic National Committee’s “Dangerous Donald” flopped.

Her camp doesn't know wtf they are doing or what they are up against. Perhaps most deadly to her campaign, is that they are completely out of touch with how angry Americans are. Hillary confirmed this again when she said at a rally yesterday, that she's "so tired of people being negative about America..." Because as we know, all is well in Hillary's wealthy privileged world!

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elmo's picture

that Trump is a secretive, heartless profiteer because she's one of those, too.

If there is one person in the world who could lose a general election to Donald Trump, it's Hillary Clinton.

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Even the smallest person can change the course of the future

I agree, so what does that leave?

That she's better for jobs/economy? He's to the left of her on trade. She's running on being an extension of Obama's term where middle class incomes decreased and the poverty rate increased. People want something different.

Or, that Trump's a sexist and racist? That's not going to win over white working class voters who are essentially the only faction that is up for grabs. She already has the large majority of the PoC and female vote locked up and it's not enough votes to take her over the top. The sad fact is, for many white voters, that's just not at the top of their list. #1 issue for them is the economy.

The only thing that might stick is that he's trigger happy/reckless.dangerous and would start wwIII but she's such a hawk herself, I'm not even sure that would really work for her. He's already hammering her on her vote for the Iraq war.

Maybe SCOTUS appointments? I'm not really sure average voters even understand the implications of that well enough though.

I think she's screwed.

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shaharazade's picture

you were one of my favorite people at dkos. Welcome. Now that were bigger maybe you've been here awhile and I just haven't run into you. In any case I'm glad your here.

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Where she wants to cap out of pocket costs for prescriptions as $250 a month. How many seniors and single moms can afford that. She is totally ourt of touch.

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"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon

shaharazade's picture

the Affordable Health Care Act's insurance rates per month let alone pay for prescriptions. It's also hard for people who work for themselves as contractors or own a small business to pay the insurance companies extortion premiums.

We're a sole proprietorship business and when we checked out the pools we found it we could not afford heath insurance even with the paltry subsidies offered. Were not poor enough or rich enough. If we bought health insurance we would not be able to pay the mortgage or our taxes and would be out of a home and our livelyhood.

To add to the problem the IRS is the decider of what you makeand what your subsidy will be. They use a complicated formula and believe me they have a vested interest in not giving you a meaningful subsidies break. So we are just waiting until we 'qualify' for medicaid and even then we still have to deal with the insurance extortionists.

We get a constant flow of mailers from Humana, Kaiser, etc It's a rigged healthcare system just like the primary is. It's ass backward and seems to have nothing to do with your access to healthcare and everything to do with the obscene profits of Big Pharma, hospitals for profit, and the insurance industry.

What happened to the talking point for The Insurance Subsidy Act that told everyone this would lead to single payable affordable insurance for all? 250$ in this 'economy' of austerity is just extortion from those who can least afford it.

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wilderness voice's picture

could get wise and ask her to step aside for someone who could win.
A guy can dream.

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gulfgal98's picture

Good to see you posting, Choco8! Smile

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Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?

“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy

Gee, a dishonest sellout Clinton would unite the Republican Party against her and probably drive a goodly fraction of independents away too? Well, color me shocked. The latest NYT/CBS poll showed Clinton's honest and trustworthy numbers upside down at 32-64% negative. Trump's were 31-64% negative.

I guess the Democratic opinion-mongers are starting to feel like it's safe to come out of their David Brock-dug foxholes and begin rebuilding their trashed reputations by noticing a few of the obvious facts right in front of their fucking noses. Now that they think Bernie doesn't have a chance to push their candidate off her pedestal. It's going to be damned cold comfort telling all those snide Clintonites "I told you so, shitheads" when she loses to Trump. They're going to have to own that one. I will not be scapegoated for their lying neocon candidate's loss.

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tooth fairy rather than their own stupidity.

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The cardinal symptom of Malignant Hyperpartisan Syndrome.

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That's why Clintonites hate it so much.

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sabbatical of indeterminate duration.

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Bollox Ref's picture

by the time April/May 1945 rolled around?

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Gëzuar!!
from a reasonably stable genius.

Saw your one sided fracas with Kos.

The UK has the perfect word for Kos-tosser.

Just remembered another one -pillock

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I haven't engaged with that self-important weasel for months now. He's so obviously bought off that he might as well put a chocolate fountain for Hillary on his front page, like he had at a Yearly Kos for Mark Warner when he was surreptitiously working for him.

Nice essay, and it's great to read you here.

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I no longer write over there but you can find me here, if I can at least remember that much

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Dclawyer06 did more recently, as was noted here. I hope to see the latter around these parts before long.

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I do, my partner is a Doctor

Just taking grandma's advice

Wink

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MsGrin's picture

Ugh.

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'What we are left with is an agency mandated to ensure transparency and disclosure that is actually working to keep the public in the dark' - Ann M. Ravel, former FEC member

To see both of you, and Tom, are HERE.

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Democrats, we tried to warn you. How is that guilt and shame working out?

Choco8's picture

when I posted this little number

How-To-Lose-Friends.jpg

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Love that! It's just too perfect. The only way it could be improved would be to replace Hillary's chaise with a giant pile of Wall Street bullion she could sprawl on, like Smaug.

Clinton Dictionary: Sexist, Adj. We hate this, but can't come up with a good reason why.

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Oh, I know, dallasdoc!

I commented over there today at bruh's diary (I believe it was) that I'm tired of male hillary supporters bullying and accusing me, a WOMAN, for being sexist for not supporting Hillary.

I've had little gangs of 3-4 men pile on and accuse me of being a sexist. Ironic eh? Little fucktards.

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Hillbilly Dem's picture

calling you sexist because you're not on the Hillary train? Ha! If they knew you are a woman, they would have probably hurled the approved Hillbot scold at you. You're not a sexist, you're just going to that special place in Hell that Madeline Albright warned about. /snark/

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"Just call me Hillbilly Dem(exit)."
-H/T to Wavey Davey

I know, right? Make Hillary look like a movie star and it's sexist. I love it.

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wilderness voice's picture

That poster is hilarious! Thanks for sharing! I might just use it again over at ToP if you don't mind.

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pfiore8's picture

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“There are moments which are not calculable, and cannot be assessed in words; they live on in the solution of memory… ”
― Lawrence Durrell, "Justine"

Immigrant Punk's picture

And also very funny Smile

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gulfgal98's picture

He has very well thought out comments. I hope he joins us here and will participate on a regular basis.

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Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?

“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

Mark Warner is disgusting, in so many ways. Like Terry McAuliffe and Rahm Emmanuel, but without Rahm's brains (he does have some; he's a clever bully).

Arrogant asshole, and I thought I picked up a trace of racist condescension toward Obama even as he tried to hitch his wagon to Obama's star in '08.

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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

TheOtherMaven's picture

Mark Warner, Tim Kaine, Terry McAuliffe, Jim Webb, Creigh Deeds (who pissed away the 2008 Gubernatorial election and let that Republican crook in)....

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There is no justice. There can be no peace.

shaharazade's picture

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And finally, a reason to get banned. By telling that self-righteous, race baiting weasel that "I told you so!"

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We should coordinate hundreds of diaries to go up the moment the results are called for Trump all titled, "We told you so".

Each of us stock pile 50 in our drafts and then click publish one after the other. LOL!

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Then when we get banned, come back as various versions of BlackNight (e.g. BlackKnight7124) and troll the hell out of anyone who blames Bernie for the loss. Something to do while packing for my move to Canada.

To quote Phil Ochs, "I wait in anger and amusement"

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Flyswatterbanjo's picture

and keeps getting better and better, I scroll up to see "who wrote that?" And it's always you.

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Bollox Ref's picture

Plan Bernie.

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Gëzuar!!
from a reasonably stable genius.

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Bollox Ref's picture

Edit:

Definitely not Plan Biden

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Gëzuar!!
from a reasonably stable genius.

Though Biden has no delegates. Or, good God, John Kerry. (In that case, Bernie should run third party.)

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In his commentary on the possibility of a Bernie-Trump debate, Josh Marshall let slip that he thinks Hillary’s campaign is so precarious that a single event like a debate of her rivals could doom her presidential ambitions. Like the Titanic heading full speed toward an iceberg.

Look, Hillary has to be one of the best prepared presidential candidates ever. She started this race with party establishment backing, support from Wall Street, widespread name recognition, advance commitment from 400 super-delegates, and plenty of money. She is now barely hanging on versus a 74-year-old democratic socialist who few Americans had heard of before this year. Bernie does far better in poll match ups against Trump. Hillary remains the least trustworthy candidate. Democrats have a built-in advantage in the Electoral College, but Hillary's national poll numbers are tied with Trump and that's not good.

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"We've done the impossible, and that makes us mighty."

with plenty of tragedy for the Greek expat vote

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Hillary will blow the hair right off him. At least we have that to look forward to.

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travelerxxx's picture

I'm not convinced that Trump will ever "debate" Clinton. He will say he will, but why do it? After all, he's already proven that he can improve his numbers by not showing up. Even if he does "debate" her, I would not be surprised if it's only once. Furthermore, I would expect that "debate" to be turned into a spectacle ... something akin to a professional wrestling free-for-all. You can almost visualize it at the end - Trump walking off in mock disgust after only 20 minutes, hurling "Crooked Hillary" epitaphs as he exits, stage right ... with at least 50% of the audience roaring in delight.

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You may have a point. Though Hillary can play the Coward card on him. Or maybe the British parliament can debate banning The Donald from the UK again. Hilarious British insults make great campaign ad footage.

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wilderness voice's picture

versus a cartoonish joke of a Republican candidate who most Americans knew and disliked before he even entered politics.

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many ways and times I read a form of the word "real" (realistic, realism, etc) in regard to my choice of Sen Sanders. But this diary sorta sums up my thoughts. Hillary is a loser. And losers lose. No one likes her. No one trusts her. And she's a lousy campaigner. She said that. She said she's not good at getting jobs, but really good once she has them. WRONG!! She makes decisions based on the wrong criteria. So, she always wrong!!! And so she will lose. And, instead of having a president who is the REAL Democrat, the Dems will lose with the REAL Repuke in the race. And they said I (we) was unrealistic!! Silly losers.

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Blasphemy101's picture

Add in the fact that her numbers never improve during a campaign. The DNC and sHill supporters own this one.

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War, War Never Changes - Fallout Series

wilderness voice's picture

She ran 5 points behind Al Gore in the state of NY where they were on the same ballot. Against a no-name congressman who was a stand-in for Rudy Giuliani who had to quit mid-campaign because his personal life had become a soap opera.

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Wink's picture

win, no vibe of winner. Just the opposite. Dukakis had more charisma for christsakes. Bernie has beat her like a drum except on the "scoreboard," and even That's debatable. Just like the Giants v. Bills Super Bowl game, the Giants mopped the floor with the Bills by practically every measure, beat them like a drum, but it was the Bills, at the end, that controlled the outcome, determine who would win, who would lose. All the Giants could do was pray. The Bills, despite having had their asses handed to them, had the ball - and the game's outcome - in their hands. We Giants fans couldn't believe it. You've gotta be fucking kidding me! The Bills are going to win this?! Steal victory from the jaws of defeat? Well, it didn't happen. The Football gods intervened and the Bill's Field Goal attempt was wide right. They missed the kick and lost the game. Except, of course, they had lost the game LONG before that final FG attempt. The indignity of them walking out of that stadium with a win was stopped by the Football gods.
Bernie is a lot like those Giants, except he's behind on the scoreboard. He's beaten HRC like a drum with little to show for it. There's some that would argue he's beaten her there, too. The drubbing he's given HRC has been some fun to witness. Smile

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the little things you can do are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-2.1) All about building progressive media.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out how hated the Clintons are everywhere except in a brain dead, Wall Street owned Democratic Party.

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"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon

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Choco8's picture

I got booted from TPM over a year ago for talking about Bernie Sanders, under the premise that I was a Republican Troll!

True Story.

Josh showed his true colors during the Snowden Revelations. He disgusts me.

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lotlizard's picture

Josh showed his true colors during the Snowden Revelations. He disgusts me.

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k9disc's picture

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“Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat.” ~ Sun Tzu

Wink's picture

me there's no Easter Bunny.

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the little things you can do are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-2.1) All about building progressive media.

Flyswatterbanjo's picture

In fact, you'll find that most PEPs (progressive except for Palestine) are not progressive on much of anything. Except of course identity politics.
Rachel Maddow falls into this category, as do most of the "progressives" we all feel let down by this cycle.

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Slightkc's picture

Why do the Repubs hate the Clintons so much? I mean, I know why -I- don't like her. But what's at the root of the repub hatred?

Or is it all a dog-and-pony show?

I mean, Bill's real chummy with GW and Poppy Bush, and plays golf with quite a few of the Repub leadership. Don't know that much about Hilary at that level, other than she's a member of the (J?) Street group -- the religious members "sanctuary." And I do believe most of that group is Repub.

The ideology between NeoLibs and NeoCons are fairly complementary... the only real difference is in attitudes toward social culture, and the degree and speed with which either party would strip the safety net and kill the New Deal culture once and for all.

So what is the foundation of this "Hatfields and McCoys" hatred based on? Now that I've become so cynical (thanks to Bush's selection as Prez) I don't trust anything I can see where these politicians are concerned!

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Most of it is dog and pony within the Party Elites.

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Choco8's picture

The Clintons are better Money Grubbers.

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Beware the bullshit factories.

Bisbonian's picture

Good Cop, Bad Cop.

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"I’m a human being, first and foremost, and as such I’m for whoever and whatever benefits humanity as a whole.” —Malcolm X

they began hating her during Bill's presidency. She said things about not baking cookies, worked on a health care plan and was generally uppity. Also it got worse while the Clintons were being investigated for just about everything. It just made people suspicious. I always defended her. I really thought she was a victim of a witch hunt. Still do. Only later did I begin to realize she has some qualities I don't like. As I saw her more in action I saw her as smarmy and dishonest. As a Dem I didn't want to think that. I really wanted to like her and Bill. Can't do it any more.

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... and still be guilty as hell about other things.

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Slightkc's picture

That was my experience with her from "way back when" as well... although I thought she should have known the cookie baking monologue was completely out of step with the increasing strength (and mouthiness) of the "Moral Majority" outfit.

I felt sorry for her during Bill's impeachment proceedings. She has never struck me as someone warm and cuddly and feminine. Towards the end of it all, I remember thinking they must have some sort of marital "agreement" based on their political ambitions... tho I thought it would be based more on hers than his. Bill always struck me as a laid-back Type C personality married to an Alpha Type A.

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When she was asked about what she was going to do as First Lady, she said, in a very snotty way, something about not staying home and baking cookies. If she was a nice person, with any grace, she could have answered the question in a pleasant manner. It was the '90's, the 1990's, not the 1890's. It was a time when women had already established themselves as equals. Birth control pills had been around for 30 years. But she's not a nice person with any grace. She's a snot. And she's a terrible example of a woman. Certainly shouldn't be the first female president. She's an embarrassment.

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