OT for 5-12-16: I Guess I'm Angry
Who is worse? Hillary or Trump? And let's break it down. Who is worse for the country? Who is worse for people of color? As juancito has pointed out, Trump is a fascist who will bring misery to PoC and, I suppose, those of us who aren't PoC should suffer through a Hillary Presidency for the sake of our brethren and sistren.
Although since lefties have shut up and gone along for the last 32 years with no improvement and a lot of worsening and since PoC have seen, essentially, no improvement and an increased rate of incarceration, imprisonment and general locked-upness, I wonder if there doesn't come a point, ever, when we have to say "that's it. I understand the argument. It will only make things bad for a longer time." Well, that's where I'm at.
I understand that we can't allow the fascist Trump to become President. After all, he calls black people "superpredators that must be brought to heel." It's a terrible thing. Frightening, to think that someone who'd say that could be President. It's not really tolerable that he compares "hard working Americans" to "white Americans".
And Trump is dangerous. We can't let him loose in world politics. He'd want to bomb everything. He'd kill foreign leaders and then laugh, like it's funny. Only a sociopath would do that! And he doesn't dismiss the idea of torture. Check this out!
"In the event we were ever confronted with having to interrogate a detainee with knowledge of an imminent threat to millions of Americans, then the decision to depart from standard international practices must be made by the president, and the president must be held accountable."
Depart from international law! If ya gotta, ya gotta! Don't let him near The Bomb, either. He might not use it...but he has let us know...he might!
"Presidents since the Cold War have used nuclear deterrents to keep the peace, and I don't believe any president should make blanket statements with the regard to use or nonuse."
Meanwhile I think a lot of us either participated in or were sympathetic to Occupy Wall Street. We know the damage that the big banks have done to the U.S. We don't need someone who's cozy with the Banksters and Trump loves 'em! He goes and chats with them, they give him tons of money...and he won't even tell us what he said to them! He likes fracking. He kinda likes the TPP.
Well, you get the point. He's just unacceptable.
That was fun and a little cathartic. Seriously, I am not convinced that things will be worse with Trump than with Hillary. They'll both be awful. I'm not a person of color...obviously. Look at that photo! But I don't believe that a Clinton win would end up being beneficial. In a country where there are severe racial problems, no progress,with the illusion that things will get better, is as bad and maybe worse than no progress with the fear that things will get worse. I'm not willing to vote for Hillary based on the extreme long-shot possibility that I've misread her all these years and that she's not as awful as I think she is.
Especially when the option is there in Bernie and those same people that I need to sacrifice my vote for, went and supported the wrong candidate. I suppose this sounds horrible. Shouldn't PoC vote for Bernie because it's good for people other than themselves? Does that enter into peoples' minds when they go to vote? I doubt it. The only time I can recall voting for someone I didn't much like was when I felt I had to, just had to defeat Bush. I canvassed for Kerry because I hated Bush so much. But I am tired of being the one told to hold my nose and vote, especially when, as I'm trying to hammer home, I don't believe the person I'm being told to vote for is of any use.
Ok...cathartic but ugh.
I need something light....
Here's Emile Ford, who passed away last week
need more lightness...Connie Francis
hmm...not crazy about how Connie's moving. Let's try Dusty
yeah, Dusty. Thank you, Dusty! Wish you were here.
Comments
Timely.
The Dworkin machine OT just flashed some impressive 2-color bar charts that seem to somehow measure us White Folk's dissatifaction with the two parties. Year-to-year, there is a comparison and trends (that's what bar graphs do to humans). Dworkin derives an interpretation that the anti-Hillary forces voting in backwoods West Virginia are just racist dumbfucks. They didn't vote FOR Sanders, they just voted anti-Hillary. West Virginians. Bah.
I asked if the same survey had been done for AAs, dissatisfaction. If that mirrors us pales, then it's an issue that both Parties should address. (right). If I get a response along the lines of yes, but number so small as to not to be satistically significant, I would respond by asking how that "bloc" could determine an election.
Hey! my dear friends or soon-to-be's, JtC could use the donations to keep this site functioning for those of us who can still see the life preserver or flotsam in the water.
Koch bros, Kissinger, and neocons in da house—er, the Big Tent!
Reinvention and whiplash: Bernie, Hillary, and “strange bedfellows” in the Democratic party
Good morning Shahryar
You hit on a lot of my feelings about this whole screwed up deal. I'm about at the point of saying let the whole thing burn down and rebuild it the right way. When do we get around to caring about the lefty issues like war and inequality? I suspect the orange one would be to the 'left' of her foundational highness on both of those issues.
There is nothing which I dread so much as a division of the republic into two great parties.. This...is to be dreaded as the greatest political evil under our Constitution.--John Adams
seriously
I have been mulling over this idea for some time.
We need something drastic to stop this insane neo-liberal/neo-conservative course that our elected officials have been pushing for far too long. Climate change is here and it does not care how much money you make on Wall Street or how many new enemies you can create to feed the war machine.
My first sig line speaks for me. I want to bring down the empire. It is way past time for it to fall.
Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy
the devil or the deep blue sea
I know its difficult to keep up your spirits Shahryar given the miserable condition of the country and world. I'm trying to focus on the hopeful. I'm still with Bernie! May be the nation will wake up.
One thing that might help is the Clinton Cash movie release next week (thanks to someone here at c99)
http://www.salon.com/2016/05/11/devastating_documentary_probing_clintons...
Global warming might preclude all the worry about politics. As weird as it sounds, global warming and climate change could be the war that unites the world?
It might be our political trouble could pale because there's the possibility of total economic collapse. From last year -
http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2014/05/13/derivatives-markets-growing-again...
When I get down and angry, here's a trick I learned from fellow Alabamians, the Delmore Bros.
“Until justice rolls down like water and righteousness like a mighty stream.”
I guess I view it as
With Hillary, people (on the "left") will pretend things are getting better, even if it gets worse, categorically, while the establishment of both parties benefits (even if the right plays a group of characters that oppose everything she stands for). With Trump, we will almost certainly see areas get worse categorically, but people on the left will be actively looking for any reason to prove Trump is causing problems (probably a good chunk of the right voting base too), and the establishment of at least one party would be doing more than just playing a group of characters that oppose him.
Except that possibly not. Remember GWB? The Dems were
not remotely like a loyal opposition, but were enablers and allies. I pointed out in a comment (to Tom P, I think) over at GOS that The policy and ideology inspiratin for the DLC was Reagan. That is the non-tea party wing of the GOP as well. Serious allies who, in no way, intend any god for any of us hoi polloi.
That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --
They took all the remedies for the Bushies lawlessness
prescribed by the constitution right off the table. Nancy, Harry, Leahy and all the so called protectors of the democratic rule of law including Mr. Progressive Patriot, Russ Fiengold refused to meaningfully obstruct the RW coup. Turned out it was a by-partisan coup. Difi lied at Obama's inaugural it was not a peaceful changing of the guard it was simply the same lawless crap as the Bushies passed off as 'change' and pocket full of hope.
Well, if they did work with Trump
which policies would they work with him on? Would they work to help enact his potential policies to ban muslims, to punish women for abortions, to build a wall (that is bigger than the one Hillary wants to build)? I don't think the Dem party is quite that suicidal (yet).
For those outside of the USA
especially in the middle East, a Clinton presidency is potentially a nightmare. It is highly likely that thousands of people will not live to see the end of her reign due to her mad bomber gene.
“To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize.” -Voltaire
Did y'all see this ?
It's today's must-read over at naked capitalism. Unnecessariat
We wanted decent healthcare, a living wage and free college.
The Democrats gave us Biden and war instead.
More than a few things in common with former East Germany.
One difference is that here you can choose between, not two, but six parties that regularly get enough votes to earn them seats in state and federal legislatures.
Oh wow.....
The despair is palpable. His summary about Trump and the candidates was very informative. They know what they're voting for. Trump is just the evil they recognize and know how to fight.
Thanks (I think) for sharing this.
"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon
"For the unnecessariat, what is to be done?"
I can't help but keep coming back to one thing for the unnecessariat to do, say Hell NO!
My mind keeps drifting back to Mario Savio's
"gears & levers" speech and from there back to some of history's more sizeable general strikes from the Wobblies in Seattle (or was it Portland?) to Danny the Red in France.
That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --
See it? I live it.
We've been riding that poverty line for years here at chez triv. A good job goes away only to be replaced by a less good job that also goes away only to be replaced by an even less good job. For the past month, I've been barely able to function. For the past two years, Cleetus has been driving a forklift for a company that won't give him more than 30 hours a week, but the pay gets us by, and woo-hoo, he and the kids qualify for Medicaid, so we hung on for dear life. Then, a month ago the regional brass came through and promised that some workers would go, they wouldn't say who or when just that it would be within the next couple of weeks. So, we live with that dread, will it be us? Act like everything is okay, you don't want the kids to know that it's eating you alive...but damn it, it is. How many people are walking around every damn day feeling like this or worse?
A month has gone by and Cleetus is still standing. I've let this bullshit drag me down long enough, making myself sick or cutting myself off from people won't change a thing. I'm more angry than anxious now. Angry that this is what we've come to, as a country. And more than that I am so fucking angry at the snide and comfortable pro-Hillary people I could spit.
I wish somebody, anybody could tell me what she's going to do for me and other people in the same boat in real terms. I don't mean bullshit slogans like "more affordable college" or " encourage companies to share profits with their employees"--that doesn't mean shit to me! I think most of us here at C99% know what a bunch of big hairy bullshit her campaign is. Yet, these supposed "lefties" are pushing this crap. They call themselves progressives? Fuck.me.running.
Yes, I've been absent from here. I've been down, but I am not out. I have missed you all. I hope to be back on a more regular basis.
[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5C3pt8HNlIM&list=RD5C3pt8HNlIM]
I shave my legs with Occam's Razor~
No help
...will come from Clinton. I'm hoping we can mobilize a movement...I still feel the hope of the sixties. It's in the air stronger than I remember for decades. I don't know what change will come, but change seems to be coming. My hope is we will move closer to utopia rather than distopia.
I also hope you and your family see better times!
“Until justice rolls down like water and righteousness like a mighty stream.”
you speak for me, my son has lived
that and still is. Establishment Democrats have no idea what kind of anger is boiling inside of many of us.
On and off my son lives it and I listen to him through the damn phone. I have a hard time to pretend to him that this ins't eating me alive and on and off I realize that it's eating up himself. And that is the worst. I never can get over that. It's my child's life. Never expected it to get that bad. And it has been a long time coming, but nobody believed me when I felt it coming in the nineties.
https://www.euronews.com/live
Nobody believed me either!!!
In the 90s I had a very good life, a different life. I was married to a man who made 3-4 times what Cleetus pulls in, but even then, I knew I was living in a fools' paradise. I tried to tell people: Look, we make this money because this job would be more expensive to outsource than it's worth, otherwise we would be on the scrapheap like so many others. This is a bubble--it will bust. I was laughed at. But I knew from the day my shoe factory job went bye-bye and I found myself standing in the unemployment line in the 80s that we were pretty screwed. No good jobs were riding to the rescue, not without a serious and comprehensive program along the lines of what FDR set up.
When Cleetus and I got together and had our kids I still had some hope that the backlash against Bush would be enough to get somebody into office who might at least try to do something like that. Obama was not that guy. Hillary sure as shit won't do it. And yet here these assholes are telling me I must vote for her. No. Not just no, but hell no. My kids have no hope in hell of a fucking future because of these shitweasels, oh, but vote Hillary! Fuck off, really. If they cost Bernie the nomination I will vote Jill with a clear conscience.
I shave my legs with Occam's Razor~
My son doesn't want to vote anymore, I try to
help him believe it's still worth a try to vote for Sanders. Dependent on how desperate or angry he is on any given day, I feel he might still go to vote, but that's not a sure thing. My son had a very, very bad school education, but a very good (ie hard) what you would call "street" education from all over the world. He doesn't understand the details much of how and what works and doesn't work in the US, but he sure as hell senses very clearly every little shit lie that people (or politicians) throw at him, no matter from whom.
I know it's too much for someone to deal with it alone and I think uniting is very important. So, all I hope is that people don't divide over the question for whom to vote if Sanders doesn't get the nomination. Let's just wait til we arrive at that point. Solutions and answers will come in time. At least that's what I believe.
https://www.euronews.com/live
Whatever happens I believe that it's vital
to have a community such as this one for like-minded folks to gather and discuss the next step.
I shave my legs with Occam's Razor~
Agree totally.
I had been planning to switch to independent the day after I vote for Bernie here in Kentucky-- I swear, I feel dirty being part of a "Democratic" Party that would bulldoze a fine man like Bernie Sanders for the sake of a money-grubbing right wing liar like Hillary Clinton -- but someone suggested we ALL switch registration at one time if/when the convention officially nominates Clinton. So I'm waiting. It would be nice if the movement were big enough across the country that the professional "Democrats" noticed it. (It hurts me to call these people Democrats. FDR must be turning in his grave watching the entire party sell out to the ultra-rich and circle what is left of the New Deal like vultures.)
Twain Disciple
Triv33 your comment
made me cry. Not out of hopelessness but out of the realization that I and a lot of us are not alone. I too am angry have been for years, decades. My heart goes out to you my friend and fellow artist. None of what the pols of mass deception offer will do a damn thing for you and Cleetus and your family. In fact what ever they do once elected it will make it harder regardless of who wins this bogus election. It's not just my fate or yours it's all ordinary people who are struggling to survive in this cruel mad society.
I tend to cut myself off as I cannot let it go and do not want to bring down people who somehow manage to deal with it or do well. I cannot keep my big mouth shut and tend to just let it rip. Shah gives me grief cause I'm angry well fuck that. Why are people of good spirit accepting this sad state of affairs as normal or inevitable?
My sister in law, an artist, keeps telling me that ' If you divided all the money between everyone the same people would end up with all the money' WTF? That's crazy talk. It rationalizes the lack of regulation, equality and our common good. The blast from the past that says who ever dies with the most toys wins. Hey your a loser get over it. Learn to play the game. No thanks I'm unable to.
The choice we're offered HRC and Trump will not make anyone anywhere better off. Don't know what we the people globally can do but I do know that these fuckers are not going to extort my vote using fear. They've all gone too far to scare me. I miss you hope you do come back on a regular basis. Me I'm gardening as it is sane. Wish I could get positive enough and confident enough to do some art. Won't pay the mortgage or the bills but it might keep me sane like gardening it's real.
(just corrected a spelling error) Wow, Azzazello, that essay
(including the WP article linked within it) is so honest and haunting it worries me to the point I am more scared than I should be.. I have to hold myself together to fight it and tell myself that I will find a solution to help my son escape such conditions. I hope I can do it when the time should come.
I think people underestimate the strength of mothers to protect their cubs and bite everyone, who comes to endanger them. It's in the dna and it's only money that can make a mother selling out and become a corrupted co-opting "feminist" role model, that apparently can't see the forest for the trees.
I believe women will come around to understand that Sanders has a more honest underlying motivation to protect kids and family bonds between mothers and their kids than Hillary does.
https://www.euronews.com/live
Minor spelling correction: cups —> cubs.
As in the Chicago baseball team (National League Central division).
thanks, ll, fixed it, /nt
https://www.euronews.com/live
What a great article and web site
I bookmarked it and read several other articles while I was there. Thanks Azazello. A must read indeed.
Good morning, Shahryar,
and everyone!
I want a pair of polka dot bell bottoms like Dusty's wearing.
The Peoples Summit
Heh. The liberal/progressive/democratic party network of speakers, singers, and tightrope artists will be coming to a town near you. Tickets are $20 at the door and all proceeds go to insuring electoral politics, specifically Democratic party electoral politics, remain front and center lest the sheeple break out of their pens and charge the barn. All your favorite designated activists will be there with book signings, lectures, and face painting booths. Be there or be square fake hippies, it's the happening place.
(Carnival barker:) Step right up, and don’t be shy . . .
So, the People's Summit People
are all phonies and a decent person doesn't deal with phonies, or how am I to understand your comment?
Have you ever been to a summit out of which you went thinking, oh well, a lot of talking, a lot of good will, but nothing will ever come out of it?
Please translate your comment for me. (sorry for asking that) I was on a Populism Conference in DC in 2015. It gave me some insight and caused me a lot of questions, I never was able to answer to myself. I think a couple of people who spoke there, will be speaking at the People's Summit, right?
So, I guess, I don't understand what you wanted to say. Are you supporting the summit and urge going there or are you saying don't go there.
https://www.euronews.com/live
Here's one online
At least it's my understanding that Nader's meet up in DC in a couple of weeks is going to be live streamed.
https://www.breakingthroughpower.org/
I'm away at a gig during the conference. Heard Nader's interviews on Democracy Now and Hartmann and sounds like an effort to organize. The peoples summit and the new congress all seem like real efforts. Will there be alot of bullshit...well I reckon...but I bet there may be something substantive too.
Usually you get what you want out of meetings like this. We sure need to be organizing, but what is important is for everyone to work in the ways they feel are effective. Now is the time. Speak with what voice you have.
“Until justice rolls down like water and righteousness like a mighty stream.”
If I can, I go to those conferences, I always get something out
of them, just by the simple fact that people in real life can't cheat you like they could online. I need to see people and not only read them, it's one thing I realized a long time ago. I don't have a voice, but I do want to understand what is happening. Thanks.
https://www.euronews.com/live
Nicely put and I agree!
Every time a group of people comes together to work on something, you are going to get all types. It is up to us to use our critical thinking skills to sort through it all and use that information to do what is right.
Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy
I'm inclined to follow the lead of successful people
"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon
I love this woman!!! (n/t)
Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy
me too, she is very strong, I love it /nt
https://www.euronews.com/live
Same old shit mimi, this guy explains it.
"It tells the depressing story of how the establishment U.S. Democratic Party-affiliated progressive Liberal Left – the AFL-CIO, MoveOn, NOW, NAACP, SEIU, Greenpeace, Sierra Club, Common Cause, Public Citizen, Codepink, Jobs with Justice, People for the American Way (“many of which will throw their weight behind [Hillary Clinton and rest of] the Democratic Party in this year’s election”) – recently staged a restrained series of so-called Democracy Awakening protests in Washington. The purpose of the event was to buttress Sanders’ calls for campaign finance reform, enhanced voter rights, increased voter registration, and a constitutional amendment to end the dominance of private money in public elections.
“The gathering was a throwback to soporific pre-Occupy Wall Street protests,” Gupta writes. “There was the laundry list of speakers and causes. Lefty celebrities present, the Rev. William Barber of North Carolina’s Moral Mondays, and past, commentator Jim Hightower, and the house protest band, Sweet Honey in the Rock. Pete Seeger was spared no rest, namechecked by a tin-eared warbler at the closing event.” Attending the protests and interviewing (and trying to interview) participants, Gupta found:
— Modest turnout on the part of “subdued” retirees, staff, and interns who stuck to tightly scripted talking points on behalf of moderate and “pragmatic” demands centered on reforming the U.S. political process.
— A strange disconnect between the event organizers’ power-friendly “pragmatism” and their call “the impossible: that [campaign finance reform] bills be passed by a Republican majority that has tied up Washington until November’s vote determines who wins control of all three federal branches at stake.”
— Movement “field generals” and communications officers policing interviews to make sure that younger marchers stick to the official moderate-liberal talking points.
— A curious disconnect between “high-stakes rhetoric” bemoaning the death of democracy and livable ecology on one hand and consistent calls for remarkably restrained reform gained by working within the system on the other hand.
— Grandiose and historically inappropriate references to the modest gathering as being in the vein and tradition of great past Civil Rights confrontations like Selma and like the Occupy Movement of late 2011.
— A widespread misplaced faith in the progressive relevance of voting combined with standard claims of readiness to mark ballots for “whoever was the nominee in the fall, meaning Hillary Clinton.”
“It seemed churlish,” Gupta writes, “to point out that Clinton is the most consistent Republican in the race, protector of Wall Street, enthusiastic war-monger, enemy of workers, and supporter of free-trade deals, austerity, and the war on terror.”
This is the same kind of dismal fake-progressivism and Democratic Party-captive Astroturfery we can expect at “the People’s Summit” next June. As currently planned, the gathering will be an exercise in upper-middle class- and NGO-coordinated Astroturf: fake-grassroots movement-building captive to the partisan and electoral agenda of the Democratic Party, which means subordinated to the arch-neoliberal and militaristic Clinton machine and the corporatist, populism-manipulating DNC. It will be absurdly over-focused on the irrelevant Democratic Party platform, not actual rank-and-file movement-building."
http://www.counterpunch.org/2016/05/06/hey-bernie-leave-them-kids-alone/
Democracy awakening and spring
certainly didn't achieve much. But I think some young people were energized. Doing something (even if its wrong) is better than doing nothing. There is no one thing that will propel the movement. It wasn't a bus boycott, a march, a protest, but a collective effort. And I live in Alabama and let me tell you the movement is far from finished. I think we should encourage people to participate in all forms of positive change. I can understand meetings ain't your thing. No problem do what you can. But I wouldn't discourage folks. My two cents anyway.
“Until justice rolls down like water and righteousness like a mighty stream.”
There are different ways to look at that.
If what is happening what I think is happening, any independent people's movement is already being coopted with the People's Summit and other upcoming efforts. They're being organized astroturfers and other with affiliation to the Dem party to steer the discussions and protests into system reforms like campaign finance, etc., to prevent anything broader and more effective from happening similar to what happened with Occupy.
From that perspective, they need to be called out.
no worries, I wouldn't be discouraged, I still want
to experience it myself and draw my own conclusions. But sometimes I am just not sure about what to think about the speeches I hear in such conferences.
https://www.euronews.com/live
I’d feel more upbeat about these sorts of efforts if the people
involved would show a little more awareness of how their fight for democracy is the same fight as Gezi in Turkey or Tahrir Square in Egypt or the Pearl roundabout protestors in Bahrain.
Some activists come across as being totally blind to what happens to non-Americans, as long as their own cause is addressed domestically and/or the interests of their own ethnic or religious group are served.
Right on Big Al, and thanks
you expressed my sentiments to a T. The Dem. party platform is a sick joke. How is this any different then faith based religion that tells you your suffering is necessary to salvation. What an ass backward mental world. Why do people believe this shit?
oh,wow, just saw your comment now, great link
and answer, exactly what I was looking for. Just scanned it. Let me read it slowly. There is enough in it that came close to my vague feelings I had during the Populism conference in 2015. It describes perfectly well what I felt, but couldn't quite put it in words.
Thank You, Al. You helped me with that article link.
https://www.euronews.com/live
Morning Shah and 99ers....
If you haven't read Azazello's link, it is a must read. What a sad, sad commentary on us as a people and a country.
"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon
I have also thought about ...
... what politician would be best on Black issues, which is an important priority to me.
I don't believe thinking "Clinton or Trump" would answer this question. The Establishment Black leadership has led their constituents into a bad place, imo - if even a couple of prominent Black representatives in Congress had backed Bernie, Hillary's lock on the southern Black vote would not have been guaranteed. I do not blame those voters, I blame their leadership, and blame them harshly.
People ask what the Clintons have done to garner such loyalty from the Black Establishment. It's pretty simple, if you ask me - they have helped the Black Establishment feed at the public trough just like the White Establishment does. It's all about the money and the influence therefrom. Fighting against the Establishment also means fighting against the Black Establishment, for they are one and the same thing. Just look at the CBC PAC and who is on that Board.
I haven't decided yet what I'll do when I go into the voting booth in November, I'm keeping my options wide open. I do, however, believe that Black issues will have to be fought for from the outside if Clinton and Trump are the candidates.
Beat in the USA.
Sanders, not because
his followers are less racist than anybody else, but becasue democratic socialism emphasis is on equality and for helping the least of us to be lifted up to a humane decent standard of living. That by default includes all ethnicities, races, religions etc.
I was so amazed that this is not understood, or may just not trusted and believed in, by many black people. I guess that's just the results of their experience in the past. They don't trust any ideological persuasion. They know it's all about money. And they know they want to survive and make it and make it for their kids.
To me there is no question who I would vote for, without any illusions about what it could accomplish, but basically as the only thing left what one still could try.
https://www.euronews.com/live
I remind you
Sander supporters under 40 come in all sizes and colors. It is old women and old black people who think the Clintons have something to offer. As an old person myself, I can say that.
"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon
Mostly the gap is in the deep south
Black churches are extremely important for African Americans in the deep South. What has kept the Clintons tight with the AA community is that they attended black churches. That has created a bond, particularly with older blacks in the South. Michelle Alexander has explained this phenomenon very well.
Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy
It's a wonder God didn't strike them dead n.t
"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon
I have an AA male friend in his sixties
with a high school education here in the Deep South who has had an unshakeable convicton from since his childhood that everything is always about money - and he says he has never once bothered to vote, because he is also deeply convinced the system is rigged against him and all people of color.
Only connect. - E.M. Forster
How sad. And true.
That statement or explanation from him must be a conversation-stopper. Think, y'all!
Hey! my dear friends or soon-to-be's, JtC could use the donations to keep this site functioning for those of us who can still see the life preserver or flotsam in the water.
a good Shaun King rant
probably linked elsewhere today but, if so, here it is again!
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/election/king-hillary-clinton-avoid-real...
includes gems like this:
There’s an app, er, I mean a webpage for that
http://iwilllookintoit.com/
This is great!
I literally laughed out loud!!!
Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy
This is a fight OF the 1% FOR the 1%.
It won't matter who gets elected if it is hrc or drumpf. We are screwed either way. I refuse to vote for either. However, as I've said many times, the primary is not over! Things happen. I still hold out the hope that Bernie will be the nominee. Until the final toll, I am for Bernie. Until we know for sure that he is not the nominee, I will then decide which non-establishment candidate will get my vote. drumpf and hrc are BOTH 1%ers. I will not vote for either 1% candidate. Period.
"The “jumpers” reminded us that one day we will all face only one choice and that is how we will die, not how we will live." Chris Hedges on 9/11
I'm with you
“Until justice rolls down like water and righteousness like a mighty stream.”
Here's a piece of proof that it is all about the 1%.
Read it and weep - from The Intercept: https://theintercept.com/2016/05/11/lobbyists-dnc-2016-convention/
No matter what, we're screwed.
"The “jumpers” reminded us that one day we will all face only one choice and that is how we will die, not how we will live." Chris Hedges on 9/11
terrible /nt
https://www.euronews.com/live
Thank you for this OT, Shah!
The possibility of a Trump versus Clinton Presidential race nauseates me to no end. Our choice has become NO choice at all. There are times when I am depressed about it, but mostly I am angry as hell to see that this is where we have ended. I have not made up my mind as to what I will do in Nov. I absolutely am sure that I will not vote Clinton. We can ill afford any more wars and she is gunning for one in Iran
I want to also thank you for Dusty Springfield. I miss her too. She died way too young. She was a wonderful singer with a unique voice.
Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy
I don't know who I'm voting for
if it's The Mad Bomber vs.The Hairball. I am going to play it as it lays. I am voting as not voting is exactly what the puppet master's of the donkey elephant doupoly wants. They like a small turn out as then it boils down to the partisan loyalist true believers, regional culture warriors and people who have been frightened out of their wits. What a circus.
Locally I face the same choice as nationally. I am never voting for any candidate or party because only they can win and stop the other worse one. It doesn't work. It's not pragmatic. You end up with a two fer as these by-partisan assholes are in cahoots. They all are owned by global oligarchical collectivist's.
I agree with Nightprowlkitty's assessment of the race issue. What good is voting for Killary, when the Clinton's agenda and policies have created a hellish world for poc. and poor people of all colors. Both HRC Trump both are racist bigoted fascist's. Neither has any intention of addressing the underlying causes of racism culturally or economically.
Basic human and civil rights are off the table for all of us and especially poc. They both deal in death, misery, hate and fear. It keeps their power and wealth flowing upwards. A pox on both their Koch Bro./ Goldman Sachs houses. How absurd to identify with any of these pols. They do not live in our world. They derive their power from ordinary people giving their consent to let them rule. enough is enough.
as for "not voting", look at 1996
49% of the eligible voters went to the polls that year. Less than half! And yet the machine rolls on. If turnout were to be 18% all that would happen would be people would write "turnout was low".
The last time it reached 60% was in 1968. So for 11 elections in a row more than 40% (and in one case 51%) didn't bother to vote. Consider that the two major parties pretty much split those who do. That means each one of them gets from 25 to 30%....while 40%+ don't vote!
If votes are actually counted (which I'm not sure of) then getting that 40%+ involved might be the solution to this problem.
Some people would write "turnout was low", I and others
would write, "this is proof the system is broken and we need a new system". The ones writing turnout was low are the same ones writing that Syria is in a "Civil War".
Thanks for the OT, Shah, the thread's discussions are
invaluable today.
If you want to get the 40+ percent, who don't vote, get involved, you need the 25+ on the social left get much more noisy and leading to give the discouraged and fatalists (see Azzazello's article) a glimmer of hope and the strength to vote with their feet and start to shout and demand that what they deserve, equality, decent living standards and a real democratic system and elections.
If Sanders says, we win, when we vote, then it's just one more step to admit, that those, who don't vote, know that their vote means nothing. And they are right. So, change that frigging electoral college system and ask those you vote for to serve them, the non-voting despairing middle class people and poor, and not themselves.
There is no political revolution without those 40+ percent not being encouraged and inspired to participate in it, on the streets outside or via a candidate like Sanders, who at least tries to lead that revolution within the political process.
I am angry too and I am not guessing at that.
https://www.euronews.com/live
Low voter turnout
is what the Establishment wants, according to Wolin's theory of
Inverted Totalitarianism.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_totalitarianism
If Wolin is correct - and many think he is - do we really want to give the System precisely what it's seeking?
Edited to add:
This Wikipedia article is quite short and well written, easily accessible to even those put off by the idea of "theory." I recommend everyone check it out to understand what we're really dealing with.
Only connect. - E.M. Forster
Chris Hedges quotes Wolin all the time.
I need to read the book. Gosh, I need to read so many books, and all I do is reading here.
https://www.euronews.com/live
Should Sanders get the Dem nomination,
won't he nonetheless be saddled with
the Clinton's neoliberal DLC/Third Way
Democratic machine?
And what would that mean wrt his
governing? His cabinet and other
appointments as well as the whole
apparatus of leading as president
of the Dem Party?
Only connect. - E.M. Forster
I believe the Dem establishment would sabotage Bernie
much as they sabotaged McGovern and then would blame Bernie and lefties for the next 44 years.
you bet, the way they have behaved so far, that will it be /nt
https://www.euronews.com/live
Agree! As I've previously mentioned,
in December of 2015, [NBC's] Mark Murray, and [The Hill's] Bob Cusack said that "of course, the Dem Party wouldn't allow Bernie to have the nomination."
That was said on a satellite radio (XM) program, at a reporters round table. As far as I can tell, Washington Insiders--lawmakers and media--don't give a rip if progressive activists and/or the Dem Party Base know their intentions.
Mollie
Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength, while loving someone deeply gives you courage.--Lao Tzu
Everyone thinks they have the best dog, and none of them are wrong.
This OT is helpful,
IMO, in a couple of ways. But, mostly, because it may help prepare folks for what may be coming down the pike--'political marriages' which may be very uncomfortable and disconcerting [for some].
I feel that considering a Clinton versus Trump GE, doesn't have to preclude anyone from working for/supporting Bernie. BTW, I did read last night that his April fundraising numbers fell from 44 million in March, to 25.8 million in April. So, it's good that many here are trying to help finance his campaign. From what I understand, California's one of the priciest markets out there.
Here's an interesting piece. Apparently, FSC surrogates--who will act as a foil on her behalf--are getting ready to 'take it to' Trump, in order to avoid the mistakes of his primary opponents.
Thanks for this OT, Shah!
Mollie
Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength, while loving someone deeply gives you courage.--Lao Tzu
Everyone thinks they have the best dog, and none of them are wrong.
Trump's already punching her.
"Crooked Hillary" is the truth, and it will stick. Goes nicely with "Lyin Ted" and "Little Marco."
Twain Disciple
I recommend this OT & comments be front-paged. /nt
Only connect. - E.M. Forster
I believe it was Hillary
who said "superpredators that must be brought to heel," not Trump. Although this part is still correct: It's a terrible thing. Frightening, to think that someone who'd say that could be President.
Lovo, that was me being sarcastic
"ooh Trump is terrible!!!" and yet...
Everything I wrote about Trump was really about Hillary. The quotes were Hillary's. I heard a fellow this morning talking to Thom Hartmann, saying that this Bernie or Bust thing has to end because we have to defeat Trump. But if you look at Hillary, what she says, what she's done, it's clear (at least to me) that voting for Hillary to stop Trump isn't an option.
Apologies!
I think I've had my snarkometer kicked out of me!!
It won't be until they start feeding on one another
that they'll consider creating a new middle class after they are done destroying the current one that is left.
We have a government of the rich, for the rich and mostly by the rich and wealthy classes. The political classes support the wealth classes which includes corporations and business.
Once they can no longer feed on the little people, they'll alter the system so that enrichment can again be gained by war along with allowing people back into a middle class bracket which will be bulked up so another harvesting may occur.
Some of them will be FOR the middle class then, while those that fight the builders of a new middle class will be considered the bad guys. The ones who fight for a middle class in that period will gain a reputation as being for the people. None of that will matter. It will still be about the money.
In the past, maybe it was about making it better for 'the people'. Next time, the political and wealth classes will simply be planting fields with the seeds of middle class peoples so they can harvest a new crop a few decades later.
Right now, they are content to build a world economy which enriches them at the expense of an American middle class. If and when it becomes profitable to create a new middle class (for later harvesting purposes), then we'll see a shift in policy.
Welcome to the building of a 2nd and third world America, where the Democratic party pretends things are great because of monied interest, instead of tackling real problems and doing things which support American jobs and quality of life. American Interests at home and over seas are about nothing more than money and control and it has been that way for a very long time.
I don't know what Republicans are anymore.
Democrats are the New Republicans.
The true left in this country have no party anymore.
The wealth class absorbed both parties, but one of those went on same and the other (Dems) seem to be following in their footsteps.
Give it twenty years and maybe both parties will reach a parity of insanity, though both will still pretend to be against the other and use social issues as wedges to manipulate the masses while the wealthy continue their plunder at an accelerate pace we can not imagine today.
Well hell
what a revolting envelopment this is. On and on it goes. Nothing new here it's the same old. Let's do what people have always done and kick their asses out of power. The Democratic party is no answer in fact they are the problem. Take a good look at what they offer and what they advocate it's nothing any human of good spirit should consent to.