A Question About Cats and Litter Box Trouble

I'm sure this is a strange thing to bring up on a politics site, but I've had trouble with one of my cats when it comes to the litter box. He always seems to go number one right outside of it and getting him to stop seems near impossible. I've dealt with this since he was a kitten more or less and he's just over 9 years old now. We ruled out infection just after we moved. Other than that, he hasn't had any real behavior problems to speak of but I have noticed a pattern. He usually meows while walking around before doing his thing. Would that indicate a problem?

I also make sure to clean the litter box twice a day. I've tried different kinds of litter from the standard stuff to pine to World's Best and still no luck. I guess the fact that he was outdoors as a kitten probably didn't help a whole lot. He lives with 2 other cats and for the most part they get along with the occasional quarrel now and then.

As for the litter boxes themselves, I have three. I keep them in different places so as to give my cats a choice where they wanna go. Still, I'm out of ideas here and could use a little help.

Thanks,

Aspie

Here's Mr. Mittens

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Alison Wunderland's picture

I'll paraphrase...

Could be urinary infection. Get tested.

Could be territorial. Move a box to a more secluded place. (KKL's favored guess.)

At that age, get tested for hyperthyroid, kidney disease, diabetes, (the big 3 for older cats.)

Could be cat is just getting senile.

Sorry I can't be more help.

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Pluto's Republic's picture

…constipated. It seems to me that you have a perfect set-up. Your cat is distressed about peeing in the box, leaving his mark. You've probably tried leaving two boxes close together, containing different kinds of litter, to see what he would do. When you solve the mystery I hope you finish the story.

Yr friend,

Pluto

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____________________

The political system is what it is because the People are who they are. — Plato
Damnit Janet's picture

My cat just gets so charged up pawwing at the wall next to the box that she just sometimes doesn't focus on where the end product is ending up.

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"Love One Another" ~ George Harrison

He goes right outside the litterbox too sometimes. I'm not really sure why. Maybe since it's right next to the litterbox he feels it's just as good.
When he does that, I clean it with bleach. Then he won't do it again for a few months. If you have carpet there, you should move the box to somewhere where there is only bare floor. Cats like to pee on carpet.

My grandmother had a cat that would go into the box, but he peed sideways, so it would go outside. We had to get him a covered box, and that solved the problem for the most part.

Sorry. I've had quite a few cats, but I don't know why your cat walks around meowing before he goes. Could he be calling for a mate and then spraying? I think if he was, he would spray in other places too. I've found that all cats have their own particular eccentricities. The cat I have now likes to lick the side of the toilet tank. Yuck. I had another cat who would unroll the toilet paper and drag it outside the bathroom to his litterbox to cover his stuff instead of just covering it with the litter.

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Daenerys's picture

I think some cats are just weird like that. Is your cat very territorial? My husband's cat hates my cat, and the dogs. We keep her confined to our bedroom as she likes to be alone. We put a rug underneath her litter box; she peed on it the next day. We put one of those plastic mats you put under office chairs under it and she kept peeing on it. I noticed she does it whenever there's something under the litter box. It was a covered litter box, as she flings litter everywhere; she even gets it in the bed. Sad Then we took the cover off of it, and she hasn't peed on the mat since. IDK ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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This shit is bananas.

Damnit Janet's picture

get a covered box (however some cats HATE the covered box and will forgo using it - ACK)

or

Is your litter box up against a wall or in a corner? Might try putting it away from the wall or corners.

We have a cat that lets a few dangle outside the box sometimes, we've found this is because she get's too focused on scratching/pawwing at the wall near the litterbox than she does taking a shit and therefore it's not behavior just distracted pooping. Moved her box away a bit from the wall and it stopped the droppage.

Good luck!

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"Love One Another" ~ George Harrison

Damnit Janet's picture

Your cat is very handsome and regal looking. You can tell he's very loved and quite happy. You must be a wonderful provider to your cats.

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"Love One Another" ~ George Harrison

NonnyO's picture

1. No scented litter - ever! The dust gets in their fur, on their feet, they eat that horrible stuff when they wash themselves. It's loaded with carcinogenic chemicals (as are the scented products humans use; I'm one of those who has multiple chemical sensitivities, so somewhat of an expert on this - and the chemical scents used to set my mother off on coughing jags when she was on oxygen for emphysema and asthma the last two years of her life). Plain generic unscented litter. If you use baking soda to make it clump, do NOT use the chemical soda found in the pet aisle (it's chemically scented, smells awful; I bought some and discovered that mistake when I opened it at home; tossed the whole thing in the garbage). Get the large box of real baking soda in the baking aisle. Put about a fourth of an inch in the bottom of the litter box, then litter over it. They'll mix it in when they scratch it.

2. The litter box has to be big enough for a big cat (you already know this with three cats), and like someone said above, there needs to be some space between the litter box and a wall. See if your piddle cat will tolerate a covered litter box. My current cat, CC, occasionally piddles on/barely over the edge, but hasn't done so for a while since I caught her digging in the middle of the box, then piddling, told her 'Good Girl' and now she sometimes comes into the bathroom with me and does her thing in the middle of the litter box; she gets told 'Good Girl' and then saunters off. When she poos, sometimes she gets part of it in the litter box, sometimes part of it goes on the outside of the box (and she seems to come tell me she's done her poo; seems like a kittenish thing to do, like announcing to mama that she's poo'd). I should have a larger box for her. If she piddles over the edge, I make sure to put paper towels under the box so there are no drips from the bottom of the litter box. Cleanup is easy for me because I keep her litter box in the bottom of the shower.

3. When all else fails, put one litter box in the bottom of the shower or tub, and then if he goes over the edge, no problem in cleaning it up. If he does manage to go inside the litter box, give him high praise for it since he seems to be announcing his intentions to piddle before he does so. Follow him next time he announces his intention to piddle; if he's too close to the edge, gently push his bum to inside the litter box, see if he gets the message, then praise him when he does it right.

4. Might have to search, but I know there are litter boxes with high sides (or maybe they're the bottom of a covered box, I don't know for sure, just that I've seen one with high sides). Most cats don't like going inside the covered ones because they inhale the dust if they're particularly vigorous scratchers, but the high-sided box with no lid is good for no/few accidents since the tail end is down a ways by the time a cat does his/her business.

Good Luck! Smile

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I believe in an America where the separation of church and state is absolute ..., where no church or church school is granted any public funds or political preference. — President John F. Kennedy, Houston, TX, 12 September 1960

At hardware store like Home Despot you can find (usually in the masonry section) a black plastic tub-tray that is normally used for mixing smallish quantities of cement. It's about 2X the size of a normal large litter box, deeper, and great for the extra-large cat, or more than one cat. if you have room, it is also way more sturdy and much less expensive than a large litter box from the pet store. A friend who farms put me onto this.

Didn't realize we could maybe make our own clumping litter. Have to try this! Thanks.

BTW my own senior kitty, who just passed away this month at 22 Sad began peeing on the carpet at the back door a year or so ago. Had him tested for urinary problems, nothing, but I think that he wanted a more secluded place farther from the general lounging area, where the other cats sometimes startled him. Had to put another box by the back door, which solved the problem.

IMG_20141005_121928.jpg

My old buddy, R.I.P sweetheart.

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Euterpe2

NonnyO's picture

They do become endeared to us SO quickly and permanently, and I don't think anyone who loves animals would have it any other way.

The two I got in the same year that I had the longest died in 1999 & 2001, ages 17 & 19. One was a Calico with the greatest markings, and the other was half Shaded silver Persian & Manx. Pedigreed mummy took a walk on the wild side; my Pooky was born without a tail, a tuft of fur where her tail should have been (i.e., she was a "riser" Manx), had mostly white fur with a grey saddle and on part of her head (the fur was white underneath with gray tips) and her three brothers were silver tabbies (almost black stripes) with exotic looks and their mother's Shaded Silver Persian green eyes that look like they're lined with mascara. I saw my Pooky at nine days old, she fell asleep on my shoulder, and I told the 'owner' that I wanted her when she was weaned. My Calico, Binky, had an orange hourglass patch that ran from her nose, up between her eyes, and ended at the top of her head where it blended into her tortoise fur on her back, white markings around her mouth that made her look like she was sucking on a pacifier (hence: Binky), four white feet, patches of white on her belly. Each had a completely different personality, each died in my arms in Sept of both those years a few days apart. Yes, I still miss them, but I've adjusted to their absence.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/56293797@N08/11718520726/in/album-72157662208496496/
This is a facial shot of my CC; she's all white, has celadon green eyes, three super-soft kinds of Angora (?I think) fur that clings to everything, flies in the air, and falls off when she walks so I have to vacuum frequently. I took her in to do someone else a favor while they moved, she didn't like the new place when they came to get her, she started meowing a lot, so back to me she came. A couple of months later I noticed she'd become a pest in the morning and evening when I take my b/p & heart meds..., and as soon as I take my pills, she calms down, saunters off, or goes back to her nap. She has set herself up as my nurse/caretaker cat to remind me to take my pills...! That's the only thing I can figure out, since she mostly has a placid and sweet nature. She often sleeps at the foot of my bed where I put a thermal blanket which is thick with her fur. She does enjoy being brushed, thankfully, so we have brushing sessions, but she still sheds a lot, all the time!

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I believe in an America where the separation of church and state is absolute ..., where no church or church school is granted any public funds or political preference. — President John F. Kennedy, Houston, TX, 12 September 1960

Ravensword's picture

She was a black cat, and got along well w/ the other cats.

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NonnyO's picture

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I believe in an America where the separation of church and state is absolute ..., where no church or church school is granted any public funds or political preference. — President John F. Kennedy, Houston, TX, 12 September 1960

Ravensword's picture

I have her ashes.

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featheredsprite's picture

My Sally is 22 and she has days when she just doesn't squat very much and so the pee goes over the side. She also has days when she won't let me groom her shoulders or hips so my guess is arthritis.

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Life is strong. I'm weak, but Life is strong.

Oldest Son Of A Sailor's picture

Be very careful about any litter getting into the drain...
Especially the clumping type or wood pellet type...

You'll get an expensive bill from a drain cleaning company...
And I'll assure you the poor guy will have worked his butt off for every penny of it...

The clumping type will form into a solid mass that clings in place, and his snake will go back and forth through it numerous times, before anything moves, if it does at all...

The wood pellet type lodges in place, and swells from the water, becoming tightly packed in place, and very difficult to get the snake to even penetrate it...

It may even be necessary to just cut the clog out with a saw, and replace the pipe...
I work for a plumbing and drain cleaning company, and this is 100% accurate...

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"Do you realize the responsibility I carry?
I'm the only person standing between Richard Nixon and the White House."

~John F. Kennedy~
Economic: -9.13, Social: -7.28,
Daenerys's picture

can cause problems with drains and plumbing. Better to be safe than sorry.

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This shit is bananas.

Oldest Son Of A Sailor's picture

I've made a lot of money off of products that say they are flushable...
They aren't!

As far as toilets, if it wasn't processed through your body, or toilet paper, don't do it...
Even some toilet paper may be risky... The thicker, tougher brands...

Other drains waste water only...
You may like the convenience of a garbage disposer in the kitchen sink...
Chances are I'll be seeing you...
Especially after that kitchen help you had after thanksgiving dinner or on christmas...

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"Do you realize the responsibility I carry?
I'm the only person standing between Richard Nixon and the White House."

~John F. Kennedy~
Economic: -9.13, Social: -7.28,
NonnyO's picture

... or bathroom floor and rug where she walks to/from the litter box and drops bits of litter off her paws as she walks. Smile Yes, I'm aware that even this plain litter could cause a problem, so I don't allow it to go down the drain (ditto my own hair that gets caught in the drain). I have to vacuum often anyway because of the clouds of white fur she sheds in copious amounts.

Between my own chemical sensitivities & health issues and observing kitties turning up or wrinkling their noses at scented or other kinds of odd litter, I never, ever use anything except plain old unscented generic litter, with or without a thin layer of baking soda on the bottom of the box that gets mixed in with litter and it clumps so is easy to scoop into the little garbage basket I have by the box.

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I believe in an America where the separation of church and state is absolute ..., where no church or church school is granted any public funds or political preference. — President John F. Kennedy, Houston, TX, 12 September 1960

My wife has successfully trained a couple of outdoor cats to use a litter-box, by mixing about 50% dirt in with the litter, and then using less and less dirt as the cat got used to it. Cats have a better sense of smell than we do. -And being the adorable varmints they are, they tend to take smell as a strong cue. So we make sure to wash out the litter-boxes really well, whenever we change litter. -And we've moved to using enzymatic cleaners for their accidents. That's major. It really breaks down the smell, making it less likely that they will misidentify their former accident site as the litter-box, or as something close enough. We use pine, btw. Buy it as horse bedding from the farm store. Same basic stuff, works fine, and cheaper than small bags marketed for cats. I hope any of this helps. Good luck!

PS - NonnyO's advice about praise is spot-on!

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"Capitalism is the extraordinary belief that the nastiest of men for the nastiest of motives will somehow work for the benefit of all."
- John Maynard Keynes

NonnyO's picture

Cats are amazingly easy to train from kittenhood forward.

Some 45 years ago when I had a long-haired black female, and pre-spaying, she had five kittens for whom I acted as a midwife (long story on that one, but we bonded), and when they were old enough to be running around, she showed them where the litter box was and got them potty trained herself. I think there were only one or two accidents from the kittens.

Later, with the introduction of older kittens or new adult cats, I showed them where the litter box was first, then let them explore the rest of the place from there; I knew they were smart enough to find their way back to the litter box if they needed to, and I never had an accident with them.

Yes, you're correct; their sense of smell is far keener than ours; ditto hearing (I cringe when people play loud music with cats around; I can see by their body language they don't like it). Same goes for dogs with the keener sense of smell and hearing.

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I believe in an America where the separation of church and state is absolute ..., where no church or church school is granted any public funds or political preference. — President John F. Kennedy, Houston, TX, 12 September 1960

PastorAgnostic's picture

Step 1. Stop using your cat's litter box.

Seriously, your cat has rights, too. And the uninterrupted and sole access to the litter box is your cat's right. I'd recommend that you use the human toilet instead.

Step 2. Try a cat exorcism.

Excess felines are often taken over by luciferian forces. To rid a particular excess feline of its personal satan, heavy doses of catnip are required, followed by tiny bits of cheddar (prepared and sanctified in advance) topped with fresh tuna.

Step 3. Follow Sir Douglas Adams' approach.

If the previous two steps failed, pick up the hitchhiker's guide, Vol. 3.
Find a top story apartment in which a sofa is neatly blocking the stairs. Make sure that the lav is too small to swing a cat around by its tail. Find cat. Enter lav. Swing cat.

At some point said cat should be rid of its internal demons, if not, get a frisky Doberman which has a taste for feline. That should solve all future problems.

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cat is distressed because all he's been hearing on TV is that Clinton is going to be the Democratic nominee and he's just given up on the system. I catch myself feeling the urge to poop on the floor when I hear this BS.
Anyway, we have a cat in our shop that was doing his business outside his box. I got to watching him and thought that it seemed he just didn't like his box. For one thing, it was the largest store bought box we could find and it still seemed too small. So I went to a local plastic outlet and bought an enormous heavy plastic storage container. I cut a door in it and filled it with 2 bags of litter. He loves it and hasn't gone on the floor since. I know this probably isn't the problem in your case and we're fortunate to have a lot of room in our shop.

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Bisbonian's picture

Two of them are in a tub...one less usable bath in the house. All three cats wander around frantically meowing before needing to go. Cat one (neutered male) has determined he will spray the door to outside if we don't let him go outside. So he goes outside, and disappears for several hours. Cat two (neutered male) will hold on until he can go outside, occasionally causing himself problems, so he goes outside, and back inside, and back outside, and back inside, a dozen times a day. Cat three (spayed female) will use the litterbox, if she can have the company of a human using the toilet next to her. Preferably sitting. (She loves to play in water, and if I stand, well, that creates problems.) So, one or the other of us sits there with her while she does her business. Because if we let her outside, she kills a bird. She's really good at it.

I have no advice for you. Our cats control the situation.

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"I’m a human being, first and foremost, and as such I’m for whoever and whatever benefits humanity as a whole.” —Malcolm X

gulfgal98's picture

Dogs have owners, cats have staff. Your cats have trained their staff very well. Lol

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Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?

“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy

It's clear he was angling for a way to get his pic posted on the internet!

We're down to just two cats now, but we have previously had pee problems and I can make some observations. This type of problem can be due to illness, stress or both. In your case, likely not illness as he's been doing this for so long. Try giving him some hairball goop if you think he might be constipated, though.

I read somewhere that you need the same number of litter boxes as cats, plus one. Three cats, four boxes. This reduces their stress. We do this, though it didn't totally solve the problem. The thing that has helped us the most was the high-sided boxes. The purchased one has 10-inch sides; I made the others from clear bins that stand 13" high by cutting down one section in front. I read that cats like to see what's going on around them when they do their business, or they feel trapped. I don't know about this, but they seem to like these boxes.

I have one cat who scratches madly at the litter, like it was a sport. She can scatter litter all over the room, but with the high-sided boxes, this problem is much reduced. I'll bet your cat would like one of these!

If he's going NEAR the box, you can feel lucky, though. I will spare you the rest of the details...

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MsGrin's picture

Emma had 3 kittens. The girl was the first to do EVERYTHING except pee in the box. The boys were perfect with it. The girl would pee on the bed or on the carpet or where ever she happened to be (thankfully, she was still small & it was easy to clean up!) The girl is still with Emma and me (and she is my little love). I looked up the issue on the interwebs, saw infection is usually the culprit, talked to the vet about it, she got abx - problem mostly solved. She immediately began using the box correctly.

She does have one small peculiarity which lingers, which is that somehow she missed figuring out covering in the box - she thinks it's yucky to scratch the litter after going, so she scratches the floor around the box... which of course does not cover what she wants to get covered, so the poor thing scratches and scratches on the floor. No harm done (it doesn't leave marks), she's just losing minutes she could be doing other cat things like watching birds or sauntering or kitty-flopping or doing other non-scratching things. I tell her a good girl to try to distract her so she can go about her day. She eventually gets bored with scratching and walks away.

P.S. A friend of mine who has had 3 or 4 cats tells me that one needs 1.5 cat boxes per cat. We seem to do well with 2 cats and two boxes next to each other.

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'What we are left with is an agency mandated to ensure transparency and disclosure that is actually working to keep the public in the dark' - Ann M. Ravel, former FEC member

Daenerys's picture

the scratching on the floor around the litter box too. Cats are weird.

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This shit is bananas.

The Aspie Corner's picture

just to rule that out. It didn't seem to have any effect one way or the other so it's probably a behavior thing.

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Modern education is little more than toeing the line for the capitalist pigs.

Guerrilla Liberalism won't liberate the US or the world from the iron fist of capital.

elenacarlena's picture

unless something changes. I recommend Feline Pine or the generic equivalent because, as others have noted, perfumes are toxic (FP has no perfume, it's real ground-up pine), clay can cause intestinal obstruction, newspaper and corn don't cover smells well enough, corn and wheat attract bugs, ugh! Pine is actually a bug repellant, and its porosity absorbs smells well.

If none of the other suggestions work, I just put puppy poopy pads under my cat boxes, making sure there are decent edges sticking out to catch overflow on all sides, which takes 3 pads since my boxes are fairly large. None of them poop directly on them but it'd be OK if they did, they're easily replaced. Meanwhile they catch any overflow and help keep their feet clean, less tracking, the floors and rugs stay cleaner.

Good luck!! Beautiful pootie!

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NonnyO's picture

I'm allergic to pine - well, all conifers, actually. I was tested when I was about 35, and I'm allergic to all conifers and most deciduous trees (only exception seems to be oak). In the winter when anyone burns pine wood in fireplaces and the wind is just right/wrong, the pine smoke oozes in windows, doors, and I end up in sneezing jags and reaching for antihistamines. I'm also allergic to several grain smuts (pollens), and get headaches from things like whole grain breads, but the bleaching process must kill the pollens because I can have certain white breads (as long as the yeast smell isn't overpowering).

For those who can tolerate non-chemically-treated pine litter, just the usual caveats (see plumber's advice above).

I think for those of us who have had years and years (and years!) of experience with cats, dogs (and other farm animals like the piglet I've talked about, etc.), it's just a matter of common sense and trying to see the world from their point of view, from their sense of smell, their sense of hearing, and just being respectful and considerate of them as fellow beings on the planet.

As a "newbie" staff member of the household when a new pet is adopted, things may be daunting at first, but it all sorts itself out in due time (and when the animal is sick, the Vet is a good source of advice). It takes observation of body language, different sounds the animal makes (purrs, meows, barks, whatever sound an animal makes with different tones), and lots and lots of patience.

When all else fails, ask the list. Smile I know you've had years of experience, as have I, and other names I recognize, and we freely dispense with advice. Smile

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I believe in an America where the separation of church and state is absolute ..., where no church or church school is granted any public funds or political preference. — President John F. Kennedy, Houston, TX, 12 September 1960

elenacarlena's picture

fake pine smells, but fortunately not trees! When my neighbor uses her fireplace and it blows toward me I do sneeze, but I assumed it was the smoke itself, not a wood allergy. The litter gives me not so much as a tickle, although I do handle it as if it's hazardous waste, as I do all cleaning products. My neighbors find me quite the riot, carrying my bag of trash to the dumpster wearing gloves, protective eyewear, and a surgical mask. At least I haven't had to resort to a respirator!

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Please check out Pet Vet Help, consider joining us to help pets, and follow me @ElenaCarlena on Twitter! Thank you.

(actually I sent the cats ahead on a plane which they didn't appreciate, lol) and came to Spokane. My daughter had just lost her second cat so she took my cats in while I relocated. One cat did extremely well without too much trauma but the second cat was quite obnoxious. My daughter and sil got two more cats to add to their family and one tolerated the additions. The second cat did not tolerate the additions and started "marking" her territory by urinating on anything and everything. I took her back and she's a single cat again and has no more "problems" using her litter box. I also use the pee pads in front of the opening to the box to catch most of the excess litter from the scratching.

One last thing, cats are individuals, more so than dogs and do their own thing. That makes behavioral problems all the more puzzling.

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Deja's picture

Well, just one issue, actually. She'd pee on clean laundry, in the empty trash can before I'd put a liner in it and after she jumped down in it and it fell over, and other obnoxious places.

I googled it. Ruled out infection, like you. Found she needs moist food to avoid getting one, though. So I fixed that.

Also learned she needs two litter boxes. That has solved our problem. She actually poops in one and pees in the other. Kinda cool to me, but I'm weird.

I also got her Feliway to calm her down since I think she has PTSD from the dog attack that took some of siblings from this world. Thanks to Euterpe2, a fellow member here. It's also helpful for urinating issues, supposedly.

After reading the comments, I'm going to try to find some pine.

Good luck to you, and he's gorgeous!

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Ravensword's picture

It sort of resembles one of my cats.

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The Aspie Corner's picture

I wish I had some pictures of him as a kitten. Back then he was cream colored with a dark striped tail with a white tip at the end. If you were to compare that to how he is today you wouldn't recognize him unless you saw his tail. That's the only thing that's more or less stayed the same and the rest is a weird brown/grey/beige pattern with white paws and back feet.

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Modern education is little more than toeing the line for the capitalist pigs.

Guerrilla Liberalism won't liberate the US or the world from the iron fist of capital.

Having given up trying to change any cat that insists on doing that, I have always put a plastic boot tray in front of the cat box and set an old throw rug or towel or tee shirt on it. I launder the wet or soiled cloth and keep a supply of clean cloths handy. I figure that especially when a cat has gotten old, and no attempts to change the behavior have worked, it is time to stop getting angry at the cat for it. The main thing, at least for me, is that both of us relax and enjoy our remaining years together.

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Barbara Marquardt