Where are the new polls about Afghanistan?
When it comes to say, a presidential debate, there are snap polls within the hour, and more comprehensive polls the very next day.
However, with the debacle in Afghanistan, which has been happening all week now, I have not seen any new polls. Instead you have the media universally spinning this as "we shouldn't have pulled out".
But they don't show polls backing up this viewpoint.
Why? Because the American people disagree, and every single poll from earlier this year tells the same story.
While you wouldn't know it from following the beltway discourse, President Biden's plan to withdraw from Afghanistan is incredibly popular.
...
This overwhelming approval is not limited by party lines. While support for withdrawal is higher among self-reported liberals, 65 percent of conservatives approve of Biden's plan.And though politicians are quick to speak on behalf of members of the U.S. military to justify their warmaking, the evidence shows that support for withdrawal is actually higher among veterans than in the general public.
This isn't just a domestic phenomenon. Eighty percent of Afghans now believe that only a political (non-military) solution will bring about peace, and only one third would prefer U.S. and NATO forces remain in the country. Meanwhile, globally, U.S. military presence in Afghanistan has been found to be a major driver of anti-U.S. sentiment.
That last number, how 2/3rds of Afghanis want us to leave, is not something that I've heard on any news media outlet.
The Afghan people were not enamored with the foreign occupation.
The Institute of War and Peace Studies also found that an overwhelming 80% of Afghans surveyed said a political solution was the only way to bring about an end to fighting. Twenty percent said a military solution was possible.
The survey found that 46% of Afghans want U.S. and NATO troops out of the country once a deal is struck, while 33% would have them stay.
It isn't just one poll, nor is it just recently. The Afghan people wanted us out for years.
Of those issues that the survey covered, the presence of foreign forces was the least important when considering what should be compromised during negotiations. Afghans are more willing to give up the presence of foreign forces than almost everything else....However, when asked how important foreign military forces were, only 17.5 percent said it was very important.
The Taliban have sympathy from only about 13 percent of the population according to this year’s survey and target civilians as a deliberate strategy, and yet, Afghans still fear foreign forces at near similar levels.
Of those that Afghans would trust to represent them in negotiations, 1 percent selected the Taliban and a mere 0.5 percent selected the U.S..
Comments
Their paychecks depend
on them supporting the war. That's why generals are now news anchors. I think we're about to witness some dominoes falling. Just a guess.
Edited to add that Whitney Webb is a treasure:
https://www.mintpressnews.com/us-afghanistan-peace-deal-rekindled-busine...
"The “jumpers” reminded us that one day we will all face only one choice and that is how we will die, not how we will live." Chris Hedges on 9/11
because there is nothing to debate about
it has beem a failure and every body knows it.
https://www.euronews.com/live
Polls are conducted
and released ONLY when the polls support the MIC views. Or Big Phama's views.
Just as political polls reflect who pays for them more than actual public opinion.
But you know all this gjohnsit, and pointing it out even to those who understand what polling has become, is always a good thing! So, I welcome this post.
The Way Biden failed at this withdrawal is what's galling to me. Not that we are leaving. That's a good thing.
Let me point out that we left Bagram Airfield on July 31 in the middle of the night. If the US Military had even the slightest concern for Afghanis who helped us, they could have been evacuating masses of them discretely with no public scrutiny.
That failure is so spectacular that to me it proves that any nation that respects or trusts the USA deserves what they get. I bet the number of nations cheering "America is Back" along with President Biden, is now dropping to zero.
NYCVG
Yes, it was a rhetorical question
I was just pointing out the obvious, as you've already guessed.
Misery Porn
and "Sympathy Theater" are what's happening now.
We are OH! so concerned about women and girls education in Afghanistan. omg, the refugees. and so on.
Nauseating.
NYCVG
We are so concerned about the Afghan people
Except when we bomb their weddings, schools, and hospitals.
Then we are nearly so concerned.
All the pearl clutching
(by those with a vested interest in continuing an expensive and failed US military occupation) is just noise and give media pundits something to bloviate about.
Twenty years in South Vietnam (expanded to SE Asia for a few years near the end) and twenty years in Afghanistan appears to be the limit of a solid majority of patient Americans. Other than installing US puppet governments, there are few other similarities between the two operations. One reason being that the USMIC learned from S. Vietnam -- make sure casualties are few.
The poor logistical planning for the evacuation of both likely reflects that some key resources and players didn't plan to leave at all. In 1975, the WH and military still harbored illusions that they could mount and win a new fight. This time there appears to be some passive-aggressive behavior among Obama loyalists that Biden hired, factions within the military, and Congress.
Biden likely and appropriately depended on State and Pentagon intel and planners to make this go as smoothly as possible. And if he has any advisors worth a damn, they should begin preparing the list of subversives and incompetents to fire.
Your last paragraph
hits the target.
Biden may or may not do this, however. I'm not certain about what or how much he knows what to do or can do what would be appropriate. Him against the larger forces of the Military Machine.
NYCVG
Depends on his advisors -
based on Biden's opposition to Obama's 2009 Afghanistan surge, it seems to me that the old warmonger had soured early on this operation. Biden may not be swift these days (he was never all the swift to begin with), but he seems to be done with being subservient to Obama,, and therefore, will notice those that continue to speak/act on behalf of Obama.
Generally assigning blame to an underling for a messed up operation is dicey. Scapegoating often, but not always, works all too well. However, I can't recall an instance where the public holds the top dog responsible for authentic subordinate failings.
An ally for Biden?
OPINION Ex-Obama adviser: Why Biden must fire his national security adviser for Afghanistan failure
In particular, he names Jake Sullivan, Hillary Clinton's right hand man.
I am tending to think the reason
for getting out was the MICMC (military-industrial-congressional-media complex) has got bigger fish on the menu. Fucking about in the middle-east and wasting tons of money/resources in Afghanistan, Iraq, Somalia, Libya and Syria has got to end if they want to successfully Pivot to Asia(TM).
America (in the uni-polar corner) will be facing off against real adversaries, China and Russia (in the multi-polar corner), that can reach out and punch back for the first time in it's 245 years of existence. Those great oceans that have been so protective in the past can no longer protect it. Besides, I think the country has a bad case of dry rot within.
There may be bigger fish on the menu,
but they could only cook them with nukes.
I'm sticking with a split military and mostly unified state and Congressional perspective. Otherwise, the evacuation logistics would have been handled far better and avoided having the US look like Keystone Kops. In the 21st century, how things look on video is the most important thing of all.
Keystone Kops
and Total failure says it all.
NYCVG
i'm going to add to my response
as evidence for my take existed. March 20, 2019, Ben Smith at Buzzfeed News Richard Holbrooke ... Who Smith praises and then takes a couple of curious sidesteps at the end:
As there probably was little daylight between Gates and Biden on 90% of FP and nat-sec positions, both were nearly always wrong. Smith then segues into praise for Biden.
Biden is the Fall Guy
just a theory. I have no supporting facts. Bioden will serve for one term and who knows what comes next.
NYCVG
Not at all.
If he were younger and more cognitively and verbally fluid, this would put him in a good position for a second term.
As it is, this is one of the few issues on which he deviates from his warmongering, neoliberal political allies. As I don't expect that he and his advisors have the wisdom and skill to carve out a more humane faction within the DP, in 2024 Democratic voters will be stuck once again with a choice between Clinton or Obama proxies.
Anecdotally
In my four and a half years (ending in mid 2016) with a local Peace vigil in a small southern town, nearly every person I spoke with, regardless of political self identification (most were conservative or Republican), wanted us out of all these wars. The American people are war weary and want their tax dollars to be spent here at home.
The media is once again trying to gin up support for war.
Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy
Not so anecdotal --
as the improbable Mr. Trump who spoke of ending "dumb wars" defeated the pro-war shoo-in.
I listened in for a minute into Biden speaking on Afghanistan
right now live. I couldn't continue doing that, he is such a "Märchenonkel" with a monotone intonation that one just has to fall asleep after half a minute.
Go to bed, Mr. President, it's time for you hit the sack.
Good Night. All hope for better times to come, at least in your dreams.
https://www.euronews.com/live
I subscribe to Civiqs.com
I just got a poll from them asking me about:
- Biden
- some of my state politicians
-
ObamaRomneyHeritageCare- Black Lives Matter
- "the alt-right movement" (a label I have multiple serious qualms with)
- UBI
- a federal jobs guarantee
- defunding the police (no mention of reform, cutting SOME funding, or defunding SOME PDs)
- repealing the 2nd Amendment (Is that even possible short of a Constitutional Convention???)
...Not one word about Afghanistan (to be fair, maybe they prepare these things well in advance or something? Not everyone works on South Park's timetable).
In the Land of the Blind, the One-Eyed Man is declared mentally ill for describing colors.
Yes Virginia, there is a Global Banking Conspiracy!
I watched Biden and then CNN
Eye-opening.
CNN covered pretty much how I felt about Biden's poor effort. He was fighting for a withdrawal that 1) we all agree with and 2) is a fait accompli. Patting himself on the back.
Biden did not address the total calamity about the withdrawal itself. The State Department informed us that US citizens ahould not travel to Afghanistan. No kidding, asshole. The Pentagon spokeman was all defensive and shameful. He offered assurances he is in no position to make. Oh sure, all 22,000 Loyal to USA Afghans and their families will be transported safely out. As slimy a reptile as could be imagined.
The USA cares about its wealthiest and most powerful rulers and Nobody Else.
Long-time well known FACT. "Born on the Fourth Of July" told us all about it decades ago.
Nothing has changed.
Oliver Stone should make his next film about this tragedy and catastrophe. Not that any more info will change things. If I have learned anything at all in my lengthy lifetime, that is it.
NYCVG
Kabul airport '‘Saigon on Steroids’
very sad
no planning no concern
Biden did make time, however, to fear monger today. He read a list of terrorist organizations and reminded us to be afraid.
NYCVG
THIS is reason enough why...
...ANYBODY who likens him to FDR is a raging idiot at best.
In the Land of the Blind, the One-Eyed Man is declared mentally ill for describing colors.
Yes Virginia, there is a Global Banking Conspiracy!
Studiously avoiding polling the burning questions in Germany too
Online polling company Civey polls everything political and commercial at the drop of a hat, but never anything that might deliver an answer the establishment doesn’t want to hear and/or doesn’t want ordinary Germans to know they’re not alone in thinking.
https://civey.com
Bottom vs. top populism, especially its local vs. global-homogenizer variant, is severely discriminated against in Germany — the elites’ claim being that such sentiment must inexorably lead to a Voldemort-like reincarnation of Muskatnuss Man.
Gegen Islamophobie – Afghanistan bleibt bunt
The fact is, the national government that approved the first use of German military outside Europe since WW2 was a Social Democrat / Green party coalition, and today Green voices are reacting to the Afghanistan situation by saying a continued NATO occupation, unlimited in time, was the answer. A militarist, imperialist Green party that assumes the Pentagon, CIA, NSA, etc. are benevolent, sees the future of the EU as developing into a similar federal MIC mega-state of its own, and has zip to say re Assange or Snowden? Who needs that?
(Yes, as a former decades-long backer and member of the Green party in Hesse, I’m disappointed.)
Polls are only conducted
to support the agenda of whoever is paying for them. Similarly, front-page news stories are pretty much all pay-to-play in one sense or another. Money is speech, and war is the single most profitable thing we have going in this country.
The people who actually want an end to our eternal wars don't have any money. And that is precisely why our voices are never heard.
Twice bitten, permanently shy.
AS IF ON CUE
Support for US withdrawal from Afghanistan tumbles in new poll
.
.
Your guess is as good as mine as to whether this poll measured anything real -- but assuming it is valid, the Hair On Fire "news" moved opposition to withdrawal from tiny to small.
I cried when I wrote this song. Sue me if I play too long.
They had to wait until the public was saturated with propaganda
And even after the "Ah!! the sky is falling!" coverage, a majority is still for pulling out.
The news media is
Only interested is whipping up fear and division. They have gone big time with it now. Maybe they could have planned it better but then again we don't have all the information and we are not likely to get it from any of fear mongers spouting garbage on TV.
Guten Tag, long time, no see.
I recognized your name. When it comes to spirits, there was anothier spirit on dailykos, I think his name was lightning spirit and his kos name was Ojibwa or Ojibwe. Is he still there?
also, are Aji and Wing still there. I often think of them and their books and images I have over my med in Germany now.
Nice to see you. I hope you are doing fine doing fine and are healthy.
https://www.euronews.com/live