a Tweet for your consideration; or: food for thought

“Leaked data suggests the majority of patients classed as being hospitalised with Covid-19 were initially admitted for different ailments. [...]

The data, covering all NHS trusts in England, suggests that as of last Thursday, just 44 per cent of Covid patients had tested positive by the time they were admitted, the Telegraph reports.  [...]

The NHS has been told to provide "a breakdown of the current stock of Covid patients" by separating those in hospital for the virus and those for other reasons, the Telegraph reports.

However, bosses have not yet revealed the data. [...]

The Cone of Silence finally broken by an NHS leaker/whistleblower?

“Prof Carl Heneghan, director of the Centre for Evidence-Based Medicine at the University of Oxford, said: "This data is incredibly important, and it should be published on an ongoing basis.

"When people hear about hospitalisations with Covid, they will assume that Covid is the likely cause, but this data shows something quite different – this is about Covid being detected after tests were looking for it."

RT.com’s coverage is here, linking to the telegraph.co.uk's original reporting (behind a paywall)

“According to the outlet, health officials were instructed last month to begin placing Covid patients into two categories: those who were in hospital primarily because of the virus, and those who were admitted for other reasons. However, the NHS has so far withheld this data from the public. 

With the majority of Covid patients being diagnosed after admission – in some cases weeks later – the leaked data points to the possibility that the virus may only have a minor or negligible role in many hospitalisations blamed on coronavirus.

The leaked figures also suggest that a large number of Covid hospitalisations are the result of nosocomial transmission, meaning that healthcare facilities – rather than restaurants, stadiums, schools, or other public venues – may be driving up infections requiring medical care.”  (or: iatrogenic cases)

Covid-19 has largely been a duck-and-cover issue for me, as there are so many competing and conflicting ‘factoids’: mask efficacy, stats on which jab causes the most or least adverse reactions, health passports, mandated jabs for workers, 'further jabs required', US hospitals receiving more money for Covid-19 Cases, the WEF gaming out a ‘novel Corona virus’ (or close); mass arrests at lockdown protests in the EU; the de-platforming of Covid skeptics, etc.

Is The Truth out there?

(cross-posted from Café Babylon)

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Is The Truth out there?

Hasn’t been for a Long time.

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10 users have voted.

Ya got to be a Spirit, cain't be no Ghost. . .

Explain Bldg #7. . .

wendy davis's picture

@Tall Bald and Ugly

cheeky sod, ain't ya, TB&U?

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4 users have voted.
Cassiodorus's picture

is capitalism.

There's a real pandemic, to be sure -- but rather than saying "we won't do any further capitalism until we really figure this out," most capitalist societies decided to rush along with some restrictions or no restrictions or restrictions for a little while then back to "normal" then restrictions again, alternating back and forth. That's apparently what they did in much of Europe. Behind the scenes there was the real effort -- creating and distributing a vaccine ASAP so that the capitalist nations could go back to capitalism. A real effort was made to make sure the big money interests profited handsomely off of all stages of this process. The core nations didn't worry about the periphery, and so there was the disaster in India that I think is what is behind the Delta variant.

Anyway, about the vaccine -- it's better than nothing, and it was free at least when I received my shots, but it too is tainted by capitalism. So for instance you can see the "Coronavirus update," apparently by this doctor from southern California:

The whole video is worth watching, but at 8:50 of the video there's a discussion of studies attempting to estimate the effectiveness of the vaccines. Note that even if we assume that the good doctor Seheult is correct to argue that the vaccines are effective against the Delta variant, and I do assume that (full disclosure: I received the Pfizer vaccine), we must also observe that the good doctor Seheult is holding the vaccines to some rather low standards. He reports the Pfizer vaccine as 88% effective, with both doses, against infection -- that figure should be 100%.

So this, apparently, is what we get with a hurried-up vaccine and a desperate rush to get Business As Usual back on track. It's a pretty good result -- that is, if you accept the premise that capitalism must benefit first and last with all government action.

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"Freedom is always, and exclusively, freedom for the one who thinks differently.” -- Rosa Luxemburg

wendy davis's picture

@Cassiodorus

to create many vaccines, and last i'd read all of them were experimental.

now i'm assuming that most readers would find your CNBC link's numbers and charts regarding the cases in india and graphs...true, but once again i find myself wondering. thanks much for the cliffs notes of the good doctor's video, as well as noting his low bar for efficacy.

did he mention the headline i'd seen recently close to: delta strain requires fourth jabs?

but yes, getting back to Capitalist ventures has been part of the big play.

and yes, shifting sands, which i'd deleted from my final paragraph:

...most capitalist societies decided to rush along with some restrictions or no restrictions or restrictions for a little while then back to "normal" then restrictions again, alternating back and forth.

thanks, cass.

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Cassiodorus's picture

@wendy davis multiple vaccines, corresponding to corporations competing for market share in a capitalist system -- or at least one being simulated by neoliberals.

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"Freedom is always, and exclusively, freedom for the one who thinks differently.” -- Rosa Luxemburg

orlbucfan's picture

How does a serious disease get politicized? Rec’d!

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8 users have voted.

Inner and Outer Space: the Final Frontiers.

wendy davis's picture

@orlbucfan

that there are good nations and western hegemonic enemy nations, so...sputnik vaccine is bad, as is cuba's (it must have a name i've forgotten).

how many billions did bill gates invest in the western ones?

wonderful signature line, by the way.

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The Liberal Moonbat's picture

@orlbucfan ...EVERYTHING MUST BE POLITICIZED NOW!

More Complicated Answer: Controversy prevents clarity - and somebody is so desperate to hide something they're willing to break countless minds and endanger countless bodies.

Seriously, what value is a living body without a thinking mind? I saw how a series of strokes turned my great-grandmother from a charming family elder to a giant infant who couldn't speak or recognize me - now family informs me that her daughter, after years fighting and beating deafness and diabetes like a true champ, has finally met the same fate at the hands of Parkinson's (my grandfather literally worked himself to death several years ago trying to take care of her, a romantic to the end), with the "help" of her "care" facility's draconian visitor restrictions due to COVID. To answer my own question: None. Life is cheap; its value is as an 'operating system' for things of infinitely greater value. I define a 'person' to be a thing that thinks independently - be it hominid, great ape, parrot, mollusc, machine, or Hoylean Black Cloud - and it works both ways: A thoughtless entity is NOT a person, regardless of incarnation. It is sentience and sapience we must value, not merely 'life'.

Anyone who demands you allow them to destroy your mind in order to preserve your body is YOUR MORTAL ENEMY. This is where zombie mythology (especially the Vodou kind) came from, after all!

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6 users have voted.

We live in a society in which "we live in a society" is considered a subversive and vaguely-threatening statement.

In the Land of the Blind, the one-eyed man is declared insane when he speaks of colors.

wendy davis's picture

@orlbucfan

i'd left out the largest politicization of all. the virus was created in Wuhan as a biological weapon, and escaped the lab.

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Cassiodorus's picture

from an infection she received while undergoing chemotherapy in a hospital. Hospitals are often nasty places. One wonders what medicine would be like without hospital profits.

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"Freedom is always, and exclusively, freedom for the one who thinks differently.” -- Rosa Luxemburg

@Cassiodorus from healthcare and let us find out.\s

As if that will ever happen in the Money is Everything nearly defunct emppire we are living in.

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8 users have voted.

NYCVG

wendy davis's picture

@Cassiodorus

(Methicillin-resistant Staphylococcus aureus) contributed to many hospital and nursing home deaths.

it seems that malpractice in hospitals and from docs is in my DNA, passed down from both my parents. i'll never go to another doctor or horse-pital again. it's been 30 (iirc) years since i last did. time passes weirdly when you're livin' la vida loca! ; )

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QMS's picture

Julian Assange aside, the (wiki) leaks angle has become a new way to make stories have merit.
Who's leaking what why?

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wendy davis's picture

@QMS

believe the leaker is being truthful, then?

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QMS's picture

@wendy davis

from an anonymous source does not disqualify it from having truth in it.
Most journalists care not to put their names on sources for fear of the
fate of other "whistle blowers". When you own an opinion against the
story line, whether it be about Covid, hospitals or insurance co's, your
career in on the line. That's where 'I overheard something on' (fill in the blank)
comes from. Just saying.

Know for a fact that most deaths happen in hospitals, whether from
natural causes, wrong meds, stray infections or malpractice.

There is probably a certain percentage of people getting the virus while
in the care of a medical health facility. That is a data point you won't see reported
by the MSM.

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5 users have voted.

The whole public health/epidemiological regime in the US was bollixed up from day one, and assume the UK didn't do much better. Fifteen months ago people were screaming for a test and did their own self-screening to obtain one. Back then and generally only those that had the financial means to afford a test got one. It wasn't any better when the tests became widely available. As of yesterday, a total of 527 million tests have been administered in the US and in the UK it was 241 million out of a population of 68 million.

S. Korea put together a more rational testing protocol. As of yesterday 11.5 million tests in a population of 51 million.

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wendy davis's picture

@Marie

both false positives and negatives from swabs! leading to: which tests are reliable?

does this mean many folks had additional tests?

..in the UK it was 241 million out of a population of 68 million.

so...in SK, about one in five?

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@wendy davis
protocol that minimized useless testing. By and large, SK NHS determined who and when people were tested. (Saves a lot of national health care costs.) It was combined with contact tracing.

SK didn't shut down -- although in the early weeks schools were closed. Airport temperature checks were in place for flights from Wuhan before China shut down. Later expanded to flights from everywhere. That alone detected approximately a third of new cases in the early months. Those cases were placed in isolation quarantine. Others entering the county were to isolate for ten days or so, given info on the symptoms, and asked to seek medical attention if any illness developed. As that was an honor system, infected but not yet symptomatic travelers were responsible for some of the community spread.

They might have done better with a mask mandate but in the early months they went with "if sick, wear a mask," avoid poorly ventilated and crowded indoor places, open the windows at home as much as possible.

A few things seem to have gone into their calculations: 1) universal health insurance; so, sick people don't delay seeking medical care 2) sufficient medical/hospital resources to manage an expected infection rate (this limited the rate of deaths) 3) robust contact tracing system. On that last point, any hotspot got immediate attention and all those that could be identified were tested. Unlike China that stomped on it (at great economic cost), SK ended up managing it as a chronic infection that will only disappear when it disappears from the world. Although that probably wasn't their original expectation. As of yesterday: total cases 191,531 and deaths 2,079. Both more than respectable outcomes.

Compare that to Vietnam -- a much poorer country with a population of 98 million. Public messaging (the government is more trusted there than in most places), low tech pandemic measures, and limited clinic/hospital resources. They had it controlled/contained up until four months ago throughout SW Asia. Now - cases 114,260 and deaths 524. Still much better results than SK, but its new cases are several times larger and SKs, although a decline in the past couple of days is encouraging. It's a low test country - 606,987 and so far low vaccination rate; both due to costs.

Too soon to draw solid conclusions.

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wendy davis's picture

@Marie

information. how do you retain such information? may i rent space in your brain's RAM?

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that Covid is spread widely in health facilities.

Nor is it breaking news.

The truth about all kinds of infections being transmitted in hospitals has been widely acknowledged for many years. At least in NYC, this is old news.

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NYCVG

wendy davis's picture

@NYCVG

NHS in the UK kept it tightly under wraps.

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@wendy davis

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NYCVG

The Liberal Moonbat's picture

...I've been told that 99% of cases are in the unvaccinated.

What does the local Peanut Gallery think of that?

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4 users have voted.

We live in a society in which "we live in a society" is considered a subversive and vaguely-threatening statement.

In the Land of the Blind, the one-eyed man is declared insane when he speaks of colors.

wendy davis's picture

@The Liberal Moonbat

this article claims that:

Nationwide, the Delta variant is responsible for 83 percent of new COVID-19 cases and 97 percent of people hospitalized with COVID-19 are unvaccinated, according to the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

this july 8 article attempts to parse: What the Delta Variant Means for Vaccinated and Unvaccinated People; What people should be most concerned about at this point

beats me; just scanning made my eyes go bonkers. dig in!

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@The Liberal Moonbat @The Liberal Moonbat

Pfizer vaccine's efficacy in preventing delta variant infections, 39%
Still 91 % effective in preventing serious illness

Decreasing potency of the vaccination against transmission
Those vaccinated January, 16%
February, 44%
March, 67%
April, 75%

I could not find figures unvaccinated vs. vaccinated hospitalized but this data suggests few Delta hospitalizations among those fully vaccinated. However the quickly dropping efficacy of transmission prevention over time together with up to 61% of vaccinated being unprotected from Delta infection suggests big trouble for hopes of herd immunity arriving any time soon.

[edit to correct “vaccinated being unprotected” percentage]

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“If everybody is thinking alike, then somebody isn’t thinking” - Gen. George S. Patton

“Without a diversity of opinions, the discovery of truth is impossible.” - Alexander von Humboldt

@ovals49 you read that wrong. 39% of vaccinated ARE protected from delta. 61% are not protected.

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@Battle of Blair Mountain

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“If everybody is thinking alike, then somebody isn’t thinking” - Gen. George S. Patton

“Without a diversity of opinions, the discovery of truth is impossible.” - Alexander von Humboldt

Pluto's Republic's picture

...even regarding the vaccines. Everyday. Mostly to cover up other lies. I can give plenty of examples. People with common sense should be able to see them. For example, the vaccine cannot stop an infection unless you become infected. It works inside the body.

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Pluto's Republic's picture

@Pluto's Republic

...does not include asymptomatic infections (the spreaders) because people aren't tested after being vaccinated.

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snoopydawg's picture

@Pluto's Republic

if I’ve read it correctly. We don’t have a vaccine for colds for this reason.

He said the challenge is that coronaviruses have historically been hard to make safe vaccines for, partly because the virus infects the upper respiratory tract, which our immune system isn't great at protecting.

https://amp.abc.net.au/article/12146616?__twitter_impression=true

I’m open to different opinions.

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In a free country civil liberties are not only for certain groups.
So this is how liberty dies . . . with thunderous applause.
The donor class doesn’t want it, and Americans elect the bribed. So suck it up.

wendy davis's picture

@snoopydawg

Professor Frazer was involved in the successful development of the vaccine for the human papilloma virus which causes cervical cancer — a vaccine which took years of work to develop.

and it was a recommended vaccine for pubescent girls, at least for a time. and yet:

Gardasil Lawsuit; Deaths and Serious Injuries Linked to HPV Vaccine

The GAVI alliance swears that bill gate hadn't used young women in india as guinea pigs; many disagree.

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snoopydawg's picture

@wendy davis

Shudder.

FWIW…

Thread

Twitter has lots of interesting news today on the vaccines. Some good, some not. Time will tell either way.

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5 users have voted.

In a free country civil liberties are not only for certain groups.
So this is how liberty dies . . . with thunderous applause.
The donor class doesn’t want it, and Americans elect the bribed. So suck it up.

wendy davis's picture

@snoopydawg

able follow what he was saying, nor this thread. i'm glad you and others were able to.

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snoopydawg's picture

@wendy davis

Maybe it’s easier for you to follow. Here is again.

https://sciencewithdrdoug.com/2020/08/01/is-a-coronavirus-vaccine-a-tick...

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In a free country civil liberties are not only for certain groups.
So this is how liberty dies . . . with thunderous applause.
The donor class doesn’t want it, and Americans elect the bribed. So suck it up.

@snoopydawg

of the mNRA technology and I don't know why he gets this introduction.

from this article...https://www.statnews.com/2020/11/10/the-story-of-mrna-how-a-once-dismiss...

"Katalin Karikó spent the 1990s collecting rejections. Her work, attempting to harness the power of mRNA to fight disease, was too far-fetched for government grants, corporate funding, and even support from her own colleagues.

It all made sense on paper. In the natural world, the body relies on millions of tiny proteins to keep itself alive and healthy, and it uses mRNA to tell cells which proteins to make. If you could design your own mRNA, you could, in theory, hijack that process and create any protein you might desire — antibodies to vaccinate against infection, enzymes to reverse a rare disease, or growth agents to mend damaged heart tissue.

In 1990, researchers at the University of Wisconsin managed to make it work in mice. Karikó wanted to go further."

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"Without the right to offend, freedom of speech does not exist." Taslima Nasrin

CB's picture

@Fishtroller 02

The True Story of How mRNA Vaccination was Invented

Dr. Malone is the inventor of mRNA vaccines (and DNA vaccines). He also discovered lipid mediated and naked RNA transfection technologies.

It all started when he was at the Salk Institute in 1987 and 1988. There, he pioneered in-vitro RNA transfection and also in-vivo RNA transfection (in frog embryos, as well as mice).

This resulted in his seminal paper: Cationic liposome-mediated RNA transfection RW Malone, PL Felgner, IM Verma. Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences (PNAS) 86 (16), 6077-6081

His filed patent and disclosures from the Salk included in-vivo RNA transfection and also methods for mRNA stabilization - now being claimed as invented by others. These are available for review.

His research was continued at Vical in 1989, where the first in-vivo mammalian rat experiments were designed by him. The mRNA, constructs, reagents were developed at the Salk institute and at Vical by Dr. Malone, this included dosing amounts for the in-vivo experiments. RNA and DNA were sent to Dr. Jon Wolff via Fedex. Dr.Wolff at the University of Wisconsin injected mice and rats. The initial patent disclosures for RNA and DNA vaccination were written by Dr. Malone in 1988-1989. Dr. Malone was also an inventor of DNA vaccines in 1988 and 1989.
...

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Pluto's Republic's picture

@CB

In this one, scientists at Chapel Hill NC, funded by NIH, got a patent for using the technique to make a vaccine for a certain coronavirus that would one day be known as SARS-CoV-2 . That was in 2003, although the patent wasn't issued until 2007. The vaccine has been waiting in the wings, all this time. What's notable is that the US will not allow a patent on a virus that exists naturally. It must be engineered.

https://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PAL...

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wendy davis's picture

@Pluto's Republic

that means? (a side note: holy crow that you knew which trails of breadcrumbs you followed to discover it.)

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@CB

And I think I saw that his wife wrote it.

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"Without the right to offend, freedom of speech does not exist." Taslima Nasrin

CB's picture

@Fishtroller 02
She has actually backed up her assertions with extensive documentation.

https://static1.squarespace.com/static/550b0ac4e4b0c16cdea1b084/t/60b62e...
A Scientific Education:
The Early Discoveries of RNA and DNA Vaccination

This is a story about academic and commercial avarice. As you read it, you will think it is exaggerated or made up. It is not. It is the story about how the discoveries of DNA and RNA transfection and RNA vaccination were invented. It is also a story of repeated abuse.
...
Papers and Patents directly derived from Robert W Malone’s research
...
Robert Malone’s patents issued cationic lipid formations for use in mRNA vaccinations
...
Papers related to cationic lipid polynucleotide transfection and vaccination (including mRNA)
...

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@CB
in this science, however....

I worked with many scientists over my lifetime, and I can assure you that they would not make the case for their bonafides by having a family member as the source of writing their resume.

Most scientists would want that kind of presentation on their behalf to be written up by another scientist (or several) who come from the same discipline.

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0 users have voted.

"Without the right to offend, freedom of speech does not exist." Taslima Nasrin

@snoopydawg our upper respiratory tract might become more hospitable to its innate immune response system.

…the upper respiratory tract, which our immune system isn't great at protecting.

After reading Breath by James Nestor, it became clear that the way we breathe can have profound impacts on the harmony, and general well being of all our our interconnected bodily functions, including our immune system. A fascinating read.

Our immune system needs all the help it can get these days!

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“If everybody is thinking alike, then somebody isn’t thinking” - Gen. George S. Patton

“Without a diversity of opinions, the discovery of truth is impossible.” - Alexander von Humboldt

@Pluto's Republic It makes perfect sense.

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NYCVG

wendy davis's picture

this was on the MSN home page this a.m.:

The CDC hasn’t changed’: Biden’s top health officials try to sell new masking guidance; Scientists say new data on the Delta variant has changed the agency’s calculus on mask-wearing among vaccinated Americans', politico.com

it opens:

President Joe Biden’s top federal health officials made a forceful case Wednesday for the administration’s newly altered mask guidance — arguing both vaccinated and unvaccinated Americans, as well as the nation’s children, were at imminent risk from the rapid spread of the coronavirus Delta variant.

Across several morning media appearances, the government’s most senior scientists defended the decision Tuesday by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention to recommend that people wear masks indoors again regardless of vaccination status, particularly in crowded indoor settings.

The announcement marked a striking reversal for the nation’s premier public health agency after it previously declared in May that vaccinated Americans no longer needed to wear masks outdoors or indoors in most circumstances. But Anthony Fauci, Biden’s chief medical adviser, insisted Wednesday that “what has changed is the virus” — not the CDC.

more shifting sands.

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Pluto's Republic's picture

@wendy davis

Now is the time to use them. Cover them with another mask so you can reuse them longer. The viral shedding is 1,000 times higher in Delta. According to researchers.

Better yet, higher risk people should isolate at home and get a air purifier for the rooms you occupy. Keep the windows open a bit.

This refers to vaccinated people, as well.

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Pluto's Republic's picture

....vaccinated or unvaccinated — only cultivates the growing size of the coronavirus spread. The vaccines work for a number of months to protect individuals — but some of those individuals are spreading the virus without knowing it. Masks do slow down the rate of infection. But without treatments (we have no treatments, per the biased research funding of the pharmaceutical billionaires) we are basically doomed.

This is a depopulation event.

This should be pretty clear to any intelligent person who is working with the facts.

Forget herd immunity. Immunity from infection drops off after 8 months.

@Pluto's Republic

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snoopydawg's picture

@Pluto's Republic

When immunity starts dropping that is when most people are in danger of getting infected. This might be why Fauci is telling vaxxed people to wear masks. Seems like a few people foresaw that happening.

WSJ allowed this opinion on ivermectin. It’s a start.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/fda-ivermectin-covid-19-coronavirus-masks-a...

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7 users have voted.

In a free country civil liberties are not only for certain groups.
So this is how liberty dies . . . with thunderous applause.
The donor class doesn’t want it, and Americans elect the bribed. So suck it up.

@snoopydawg
is now recommending face masks for vaccinated people. (But he hasn't demonstrated transparency or solid science since the beginning of the epidemic; so, wouldn't be surprising if that were his latest reasoning.) Surgical masks, which is what most people have been wearing, are at best only minimally protective for the wearer. They are quite effective to prevent infecting others. That's why when everybody is masked, infections drop. The tricky part with this virus is that too many infected people don't know that they're infected and infectious. (Perhaps some do and just want to share the pain.)

Personally, I feel less safe in indoor public spaces now that half the people don't wear masks than when everybody was masked. Might have to return to wearing an N-95.

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6 users have voted.

@Pluto's Republic Clearly I do not fall into the intelligent person category.

So much of what you say here is new to me. (This is addressed to Pluto and Snoop.)

Right now I am starting to feel an appropriate amount of panic.

So, if I am understanding correctly, a third shot, or fourth shot will still not make us immune, but (supposedly) only more capable of fighting an infection if we get one?

I have had 2 shots and I think I am done.

Ten days after the second shot, I got my first miserable cold and cough in 10 years+

1,000 units of Vitamin D had kept me healthy for at least a decade.

So, wtf? A cold that lasted more than 12 weeks. My unhelpful doctor listened to my lungs and was unimpressed by this extraordinarily debilitating "cold." "You're old and this sometimes happens with people your age."

I bought it.

Unti, Yesterday I looked at my calendar and saw the 10 day gap between my second shot and a cold that had me choking on phlegm and spitting into a little cup for 12 weeks.

Light dawned. That fucking second shot and my reaction to it made me this ill.

No booster for me, thanks anyway.

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NYCVG

snoopydawg's picture

@NYCVG

that is on both sides of the vaccine debate. And on things that will help. Lots of pro vaccinations looks to be totally false while a lot from the no vax side is just as bad. Magnetic implants because of Gates? It’s devious but probably not true either. I’m very isolated and have been going through some health issues for 3 months now and still no one knows what the hell is happening with my body. It’s not like they ain’t looking hard but so far…more questions. My doc said not a chance in hell for me right now. It’s why I’m researching and looking for answers everywhere I can. I mask but still wonder how much good they do. My n 95 ones are exhausted and my friend can’t get me anymore. I found a place online though.

Good luck. Yeah buckets of phlegm. Fun stuff. Not.

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6 users have voted.

In a free country civil liberties are not only for certain groups.
So this is how liberty dies . . . with thunderous applause.
The donor class doesn’t want it, and Americans elect the bribed. So suck it up.

wendy davis's picture

@Pluto's Republic

amiga. when folks drop by, i ask them at the door if they'd lie me to tie on my cotton kerchief. some who come wear masks, some...do not. mr. wd uses one sort or another disposable at work, and did get two jabs of moderna to keep his job. oopsie: i'd also ordered a black cotton sort for both him and our strange neighbor who is very conflicted about his stance on covid safety.

i don't need any jabs given the condition my condition is in, thankfully. but given my past history with vaccine jabs, i'd worry that one might do me in. ; )

in your other extra comments, i'm sorry to say that i'm unable to follow...

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6 users have voted.

An 80-90% efficacy rate - especially if it is actually less but hidden behind asymptomatic cases - without mandatory vaccination is a guarantee that the pandemic will continue. And an efficacy duration of only 6 montha means boosters every 6 months AT PhARMA's PRICE. Do I have to say it?
By the way, Gates is now investing in "injectable" (patentable) ivormectin.

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On to Biden since 1973

Pluto's Republic's picture

@doh1304

....are oral vaccinations. Without vaccinating the entire world at the same time, the effort is pointless. Oral vaccines will bring full compliance. Needle haters are 10 percent of the population.

The technology is in place. But ignored.

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wendy davis's picture

@Pluto's Republic

as well, but black USians are averse to covid jabs, because: Tuskegee and so on. one citation at random:

Contending with a history of racism

Studies have shown that the COVID-19 pandemic disproportionately affects Black people and other minorities in the United States in severity, mortality, economics, and more. Thomas says, however, that it was just last summer when the New York Times had to sue the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) to get a breakdown of infections by race. And a year ago some people even thought Black people were immune to the virus because of the melanin in their skin.

As Joe Smyser, PhD, MSPH, CEO of the health communications firm Public Good Projects, puts it, "Everybody knows about Tuskegee. Everybody knows about Henrietta Lacks. What I don't often hear acknowledged is that the systemic racism that encouraged these two unethical, horrible incidents is still causing unethical, horrible incidents."

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@wendy davis As I reported in my series The Usual Suspects back in 2005, the Plan for a New American Century detailed the need foor a "Pearl Harbor" event to legitimize the invasion of Iraq. Followed by an attack on Syria using proxy forces and a long range goal of developing viruses that would attack minorities.

A year and a half ago, I posted on this very board, the numbers in Italy don't add up. Something fishy is going on.
Could this be the virus they'd long been planning?

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wendy davis's picture

@Battle of Blair Mountain

my doubts, of course. but with these folks at Project for the New American Century, they might have wanted one. only this covid sars is killing white people, too, no?

The Project for the New American Century (PNAC) was a neoconservative
think tank based in Washington, D.C. that focused on United States foreign policy. It was established as a non-profit educational organization in 1997, and founded by William Kristol and Robert Kagan. PNAC's stated goal was "to promote American global leadership."[6] The organization stated that "American leadership is good both for America and for the world," and sought to build support for "a Reaganite policy of military strength and moral clarity."

Of the twenty-five people who signed PNAC's founding statement of principles, ten went on to serve in the administration of U.S. President George W. Bush, including Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld, and Paul Wolfowitz...[...]

the wiki also says:

The Project for the New American Century ceased to function in 2006;[19] it was replaced by a new think-tank named the Foreign Policy Initiative, co-founded by Kristol and Kagan in 2009. The Foreign Policy Initiative was dissolved in 2017.

who is kagan's wife? ukraine putsch-director victoria nuland!

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wendy davis's picture

@doh1304

the smartest doctor in the world!

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CB's picture

Benefits versus Risks: Interview with Geert Vanden Bossche

Highlighting the principle of using a prophylactic vaccine in the midst of a pandemic. Likely to create more more viral variants in the process.

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wendy davis's picture

@CB

of a 42 minute interview.

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Pluto's Republic's picture

@CB @CB

One thing is true:

The moment you use antibiotics or a vaccine against a virus, the clock starts ticking. You have to inoculate all humans immediately, or the virus will develop immunity to the vaccine (a way to escape).

The West lost that race in foot-dragging or refusing to provide poor countries with vaccines in a timely manner.

Neoliberalism, among other modern injustices, created competitive, contentious, suspicious, resentful societies in the West. They are non compliant and indifferent to the wellbeing of others.

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4 users have voted.

Add some perspective to your news. Read People's Daily — Feel the difference in your mind!

CB's picture

@Pluto's Republic @Pluto's Republic

These 'vaccines' were never designed to stop transmission or infection. They are only meant to lessen symptoms. There are other prophylactics available with little adverse side affects - vitamin D3, zinc, Ivermectin.

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Pluto's Republic's picture

@CB

...to fight the infection.

These vaccines do not stop people from being attacked by the virus. But they can help the body resist the attacks.

I wonder how many people know this reality?

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Add some perspective to your news. Read People's Daily — Feel the difference in your mind!

wendy davis's picture

@CB

that healthy guts are a key to immune systems. one might want to do periodic intestinal cleansing with psyllium seed husks (we use equate brand from Waldo World), and eat multi-strain probiotic yogurt. we buy greek gods brand.

a quick scan of this article makes a case for it.

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at feed stores, Tractor Supply, etc, and in paste form. Do you paste by weight? Is there a measure anywhere?

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@on the cusp
There’s enough for a 1,250 lb animal, 6.08g (@1.87% IVM). If your good at math you can figure it out. ; )

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“If everybody is thinking alike, then somebody isn’t thinking” - Gen. George S. Patton

“Without a diversity of opinions, the discovery of truth is impossible.” - Alexander von Humboldt

@ovals49 slurped and sucked it with their eyes walled back!
Their "special treat" was usually a slice of apple.
I have pals who dosed themselves with the paste years ago, for chronic fatigue and related parasites.
They are all alive, but I don't know if they conquered the parasite beast.

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@on the cusp @on the cusp

Please ignore the politics of the interviewer, but watch this five sectioned interview with R. Malone. Assuming confirmation of elevated blood titers in the vaccinated… we’re about to see an about face on the currently recommended ‘solution’ to the pandemic.

Best get on over to Tractor Supply today, or your horses may have to go without.

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“If everybody is thinking alike, then somebody isn’t thinking” - Gen. George S. Patton

“Without a diversity of opinions, the discovery of truth is impossible.” - Alexander von Humboldt

@ovals49 were completely sold out. There must be a lot of wormy horses around her. Hmmm...
I ordered supplies for decades from a company named Smartpak. They sent me my horse meds and supplements on a schedule. Hassle-free.
Now, when you order IVM, they want to know how many horses you own, and if you are a commercial entity. Never asked those questions before.Veeerrrry strange...
I intend to watch the interview. I have discovered that extreme righties and extreme lefties often agree on IVM. Not everyone who voted for Biden is vaxxed.

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@on the cusp
policy. Many would prefer other treatment options beside an endless stream of experimental vaccines and boosters with relatively short term efficacy and unknown long term safety.

Now there are indications that Antibody Dependent Enhancement may be taking place within our vaccinated bodies, making the virus even better adapted and more prolific in its replication. If these indications pan out, there will surely be calls to abandon the vaccination program in all but high risk patients. Repurposed drugs are looking more and more like the way to go for me.

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3 users have voted.

“If everybody is thinking alike, then somebody isn’t thinking” - Gen. George S. Patton

“Without a diversity of opinions, the discovery of truth is impossible.” - Alexander von Humboldt

snoopydawg's picture

@ovals49

and it was thought a year ago that they would do just that. It’s also what Malone is saying in the tweet thread. Just because Steve Bannon had him on to talk shouldn’t keep anyone from listening to what he says. I m not providing synopsis on it or the articles because I want people to make up their own minds on what they get from them.

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In a free country civil liberties are not only for certain groups.
So this is how liberty dies . . . with thunderous applause.
The donor class doesn’t want it, and Americans elect the bribed. So suck it up.

@on the cusp

an animal treatment sold in Tractor Supply.... they are nuts!

https://www.tractorsupply.com/policies-information_customer-solutions_le...

https://www.tractorsupply.com/static/sites/TSC/downloads/manufacturer-no...

https://www.wowktv.com/news/local/a-well-know-drug-used-in-livestock-and...

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"Without the right to offend, freedom of speech does not exist." Taslima Nasrin

@Fishtroller 02
is a no go on this site. Whether it be pro-vax, anti-vax or any treatments thereof, finger pointing will only lead to acrimony and divide this site irreparably. We already have folks leaving here because of it, on both sides of the issue.

Although you may claim your statement was generalized there are more than likely several members here that you just called "nuts".

Please refrain.

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@JtC
specifically as "nuts". And I certainly am not the kind of poster (I hope you know this) who is in any way into shaming anyone, so sorry again if that is the way my post appeared

My concern comes from seeing more and more postings, not only here, but on many sites concerning Ivermectin. I think it is important to speak up about it.

And if you don't mind, I'd like to share with you an adventure I had today regarding a person who is being touted as a good source of Covid 19 information who has been mentioned in some posts here.

There are people who are advocating for a Dr. Robert Malone. I just followed a thread off of a reddit site (Feel the Bern) that took me to a twitter conversation which included Dr. Malone. He was recommending a video made by a nurse (we think) who was reporting on the horrors of vaccine side effects that she claims are occurring in Baltimore. I tried to find out who this nurse was or where the video came from. I finally found the site that was promoting the video. It is a right wing Q-anon type site called BitChute. So it appears this Dr. Malone, who claims to be the inventor of the mRNA technology, is recommending Q-anon type stuff as legitimate medical information.

My point here is that even very thoughtful and intelligent people can and apparently are being fooled by all the stuff online regarding the Covid virus, the vaccines, alternative treatments, etc.
I am hoping that we all can be alert to that fact, including myself.

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"Without the right to offend, freedom of speech does not exist." Taslima Nasrin

@Fishtroller 02
I do understand. It's just that I'm in the tenuous position of trying to hold this site together through this crisis.

I have no problems with covid discussions, at all, from any angle. But I cringe at the thought of the "othering" setting in here as is seen on so many other websites. I hope that we can be different here.

I know you didn't mean it that way and I didn't mean to single you out as well.

I know I appear to be tap dancing frantically over this issue. The alternative is to ban all discussion of covid. I don't think any one here, including myself, wants that.

My main concern is, as always, the health of this site.

Thanks Fish.

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@JtC

So I just have to share the further saga of the Dr. Malone/nurse video adventure. I went back to the reddit site about an hour after I had seen what I reported to you (and reported on the reddit thread too) and found that the post of the nurse video with Malone's endorsing comment had been removed from twitter... after I encouraged people to go check it out! I did, however, manage to save the link to the video posted on BitChute. Here it is...https://www.bitchute.com/video/M8Dk0Y8Pxfko/

So now the question is... did Malone actually endorse that video or was someone able to make it look like he did?

This is all kind of scary.

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"Without the right to offend, freedom of speech does not exist." Taslima Nasrin

CB's picture

@Fishtroller 02
All she is stating that they are seeing cases where patients have been injured or killed by the vaccine with atypical complaints and that there are no protocols for how to treat them.

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@CB on that subject. I also have nurses tell me their stories. I think I am represent a NP, and 4 RN's. Only 1 RN got vaxxed. The others adamantly refuse. Too many still born babies, etc...None of them know anything about Qanon.

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@on the cusp

to continue with their refusal to get vaccinated if they work in an medical facility. The courts have endorsed hospitals over nurses on this issue and most medical facilities are moving quickly to require vaccinations for employees.

Where are the stats on stillborns?

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"Without the right to offend, freedom of speech does not exist." Taslima Nasrin

@CB

Is she actually in Baltimore? Why is this video only available on a right wing Qanon type website (BitChute)?

We don't know anything more about her or the video. That is the problem.

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"Without the right to offend, freedom of speech does not exist." Taslima Nasrin

wendy davis's picture

thanks for all the comments and brief cliffs notes for longish videos. i've already exceeded the quota of online time that's good for my health.

we went far afield from the original OP, which had garnered nine thumbs early on, now ten late in the day.

i wish the best of everything for all of us; good night,
wd

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wendy davis's picture

covid-19. from sputink news july 27, finian cunningham, a few outtakes:

An international online petition calling for an investigation into a US military laboratory and the possible origin of Covid-19 was hacked at the weekend. The hackers were reportedly based in the US.

Fort Detrick in Maryland is the center of American biowarfare research. It is just one of the hundreds of such infectious disease laboratories located across the United States. During the Cold War, Fort Detrick was the main site for experimenting with lethal pathogens, including viruses causing deadly influenza.
.....................
However, the network of secretive US biowarfare laboratories is also infamous for safety violations and accidents. In August 2019, Fort Detrick was shut down abruptly for several months when its wastewater decontamination process failed.

It is not unreasonable to call for an investigation into the practices and records at the Maryland center to ascertain if it had any connection to the Covid-19 pandemic which has so far killed over four million people worldwide and more than 600,000 in the United States alone.
..........................
Of course, American politicians and media dismiss the appeal as “disinformation” put out by Russia and China. Americans have accused China of being the origin of the pandemic after the first cases of Covid-19 were detected in the city of Wuhan at the end of 2019. More sinisterly, the Wuhan virology institute has been fingered as the source of the virus even though an international survey by the World Health Organization concluded such a release was “extremely unlikely”.

Scientific consensus contends that the virus evolved naturally and was most likely transmitted to humans from animals.

US President Joe Biden has given credibility to the conspiracy theory unleashed by his predecessor Donald Trump that the Wuhan laboratory was the origin of the Covid-19 virus. Biden has tasked his intelligence agencies to look into the claims. They are due to report back on their findings next month. Washington berates China for not being transparent about its laboratory and is demanding that Beijing open up its facility for inspection. The Americans claim China was not fully open with WHO investigators who cleared the lab as not being the origin of the virus.

the rest is here.

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QMS's picture

@wendy davis

if bidden demands china open their labs to inspection
then why doesn't this administration do the same here?

oh, maybe because the US has nothing to hide Wink

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wendy davis's picture

@QMS

politicized whitewash, in any event. but again, it's another case of US projection. akin to: in wants a nuclear bomb, but only the US and Israel should have any, and the US dropped two to end WWII.

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"Without the right to offend, freedom of speech does not exist." Taslima Nasrin

usefewersyllables's picture

@Fishtroller 02

Penicillin, for example, will send me into anaphylactic shock and kill me on the spot. But here's an alternate viewpoint from someone who is a rational adult, has been through good times and bad, and has made the informed choice to assume the risk of using veterinary supplies on myself when in extremis: sometimes, it might be worth the risk.

The following does not constitute medical advice and should not, under any circumstances, be considered as such.

But after the last crash, in between employment and medical insurance policies, when I couldn't afford a doctor visit or the absurd costs of medicine, I came down with bronchitis. Gnarly bronchitis, the kind where you are really stressed to breathe. I knew what it was, having had it before, and knew how to treat it. I wandered down to the local pet supply store and snagged some doxycycline (amusingly, intended for use by aquarists!) for the princely sum of $13.50, treated myself, and came out every bit as well as I would have paying out of pocket for the stuff to be prescribed through the usual medical channels with copays, deductables, appointments weeks away, and the usual graft and corruption and so on.

I still have a 50cc bottle of injectable ivermectin in the fridge that we used all the time on the llamas, and a bunch of sterile syringes and 24ga disposable needles for same left over from our ranching days. Should I become convinced that it would help me, I would administer it to myself. My wife could then make the same decision for herself, or not- that would be her call. We've both shot up enough critters to be completely comfortable with doing the jab. I just haven't got there yet.

Now, I make no claim to being brave, and once again this is not medical advice, and I'll deny that I ever said it if necessary. But my motivation there was the fact that an old country vet (since deceased from natural causes at the ripe old age of 89) once told me that he hadn't been to a people-doctor in years, and he preferred the vet supply route for everything, up to and including antibiotics- and I simply took him at his word.

BTW, I've heard that they also usually have ampicillin/amoxycillin in the fish section, if you aren't allergic and can use it. And someone once told me that Vetricin wound-wash/salve should be in the medicine cabinet of every gardener and knuckle-scraper, in addition to the barn locker of every horsekeeper and llama-wrangler. I think I also once overheard another llama-wrangler say that the veterinary Terramycin opthalmic ointment for fly-driven eye infections can also work a treat on eye inflammations. In cats, maybe. Or so I've been told. And so on.

But I'm nobody, and my words have no meaning. None of that should be taken as constituting medical advice. None of it. In fact, I actually never said a word. What was that noise? Is the wind blowing? Look! It's Halley's Comet...

And to management: if this is beyond the pale, please feel free to delete it, and accept my apologies.

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Twice bitten, permanently shy.

@usefewersyllables @usefewersyllables A scorpion sleeping in the halter stung me, and after the vet said, "If that had stung the horse on the face, we would never get a halter or bridle on him! Oh, let me get some Benedril for you." I took one, and the pain and swelling stopped in five minutes.
I know lots of vets and people without insurance who take antibiotics for animals.
Last year, my Dr. bragged on saving a patient's life by giving him IVM. This year, he will only prescribe it for a parasite condition.

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snoopydawg's picture

@on the cusp

and the person who gave them to me wanted nothing to do with helping with something that would help. I had been to the vet many times one year and became friends with one and finally asked him what to do.

"If I was a dawg how would you treat me?" He offered advice and I got better. I had been one sick puppy for weeks and lost lots of weight. Some doctors must have become one just to make money because they certainly don’t give a rap about people. Not just doctors either.

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7 users have voted.

In a free country civil liberties are not only for certain groups.
So this is how liberty dies . . . with thunderous applause.
The donor class doesn’t want it, and Americans elect the bribed. So suck it up.

@snoopydawg I can't count how many vets I know that have said the animal meds are exactly the same as people meds, just cheaper.

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@usefewersyllables

I have a friend who got Lymes. The doctor would only prescribe two weeks of tetracycline and she had read on many sites that you need many more weeks of it than that. She ended up getting more from her animal's vet. And she appears to have beaten the infection, although Lymes can be tricky.

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"Without the right to offend, freedom of speech does not exist." Taslima Nasrin

QMS's picture

will be listed as a schedule 1 drug
at the behest of big pharma

it's a free market until it's not

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