Bernie looks unstoppable, unless...
The Democratic Party establishment tried rigging the Iowa caucus, and Bernie still won the popular vote anyway. It appears that they will try some bullsh*t in Nevada as well.
Will the rigging work any better the second time? I'd bet that it mostly fails again.
That would make Bernie 3-for-3 in the popular vote, and never has a candidate failed to get the nomination after starting like that.
Especially when you consider the spectacular collapse of Biden.
Bernie got a few of Biden's supporters, Mayor Pete got more of them, but the bulk of them went to Bloomberg.
So the Dem establishment cannot stop Bernie, unless they escalate the rigging of the primaries.
In 2016 the rigging was about a 3 on a scale of 10.
In 2020 in Iowa, the rigging was about a 5 on a scale of 10.
Any increase in rigging the primaries above the current levels will make deniability almost impossible. They are already at the edge of being fully exposed.
Being caught rigging the primaries has the exact same cost as using super delegates to rob Bernie of the nomination at the convention - permanent minority party status.
Even being caught making a mockery of democracy won't completely collapse the Democratic Party, because all the institutions will continue to prop it up.
The Democratic Party establishment will play down the corruption.
The media will openly deny reality (which they are so good at).
Even the GOP will give the Dems a crutch. Especially since the GOP's message for decades is the Republican voters are being victimized by the all-powerful liberal elites, so they need an enemy above all else.
The Dems will continue to win in strongholds like California and New York, even after being exposed rigging the elections against their own base.
But underneath that the Dems will be annihilated. They'll be completely shut out of power in Washington, and they'll be a non-factor over the vast majority of the country.
There'll be a huge cost for Republican voters as well.
Becoming a de facto one-party political system is never good for representation for the non-elites, even when you are a member of that party.
GOP candidates could effectively ignore the voters. They wouldn't even have to pretend to care, like they do now.
Voter participation, already down to 50%, would immediately drop another 10-15%.
Our "democracy" would become a crises that after another couple elections even the media would begin noticing.
Eventually this would lead to violence, including political assassinations.
That's an extremely high price to pay for keeping Bernie from winning.
Which is why I don't think TPTB will openly rig the election.
I think those who believe that they will openly rig the election are underestimating TPTB or are lacking in imagination.
Instead I think the TPTB will do their best to crush Bernie in the general election (which they just might, since all the political forces of both parties will be aligned against him).
If Bernie still manages to win the GE, then they will go to Plan B - destroying his presidency.
This includes inventing endless baseless smears and scandals out of nothing.
(This may not work because the media has so little credibility)
The two parties will align as one to stop Bernie's policies, like MFA, and then the media will blame Bernie for "not being able to work with Congress".
Also they will intentionally tank the economy.
This way the narrative will be "This is what you get when you elect a leftist, peasants."
Their objective will be to "teach us" never to defy TPTB again.
Comments
I'm all in
for burning it all down. Intentionally tanking the economy is the plan anyways.
The only way to reap the massive amount of money the 1% want is to tank it and take it.
It worked very well in 2008. Problem is, this time we may very well find out how the rich taste.
I'm guessing like shit.
Regardless of the path in life I chose, I realize it's always forward, never straight.
Things tend to taste like what they eat
" In the beginning, the universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry, and is generally considered to have been a bad move. -- Douglas Adams, The Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy "
I say bring it on.
It's time for a do-over. The dimwit party, the rethug party, the US gubmit all need to go down. If they steal the election let's have mob rule. If Bernie wins and they make it impossible for him to govern, let's have mob rule.
I will be part of the mob - no problem!
"The “jumpers” reminded us that one day we will all face only one choice and that is how we will die, not how we will live." Chris Hedges on 9/11
Mob rule by a Repugnant
mob could also be the outcome. And don't get me wrong here, I would love to see the demise of the Democratic liars, but full on Repugnant rule is not something I will ever personally advocate for. And God knows, that mob is ready, willing and armed. And they are anything but progressive, they are most of them full retrograde and will relish their rule.
Only a fool lets someone else tell him who his enemy is. Assata Shakur
Don't underestimate the
regular mobs - as opposed to the repugnant mob. I think the regular people will have had enough. If they/we haven't had enough, we deserve the repugnant mob.
"The “jumpers” reminded us that one day we will all face only one choice and that is how we will die, not how we will live." Chris Hedges on 9/11
They won't relish it for long
Repubs have been trained to think of themselves as victims of liberals (which are the same as Democrats to them).
When liberals are no longer a credible threat, when the Dems don't even have candidates in most races, and the ones that are candidates are ex-Republicans, it'll be hard to maintain the illusion of the all-powerful-liberal oppressors.
Also, when the Repubs don't even have to acknowledge their voters, their policies will get absolutely brutal for everyone. Even Republican voters.
Well, Republican
policy is pretty much what we've got now, and I acknowledge completely the Democrats' part in that. Their policies are already brutal, but I still see lots of Repugnant support for those policies as those voters have convinced themselves it isn't Repugnant policy fucking them but "liberals" or "illegals" or whoever the scapegoat of the day is.
I grew up under these people and I hold out very little hope ANY of them will truly see the reality. I fully acknowledge as well that they are as brainwashed as many of us out here were when we still believed Democrats were really on our side, but that acknowledgement doesn't mean I think the rabid right wing in this country will ever see just how brainwashed they really are. They NEVER admit fault, as you say, they'll always find someone to blame for where we are today and blaming themselves never enters the picture. Look how long it took some of us (she raises her hand) to see how Democrats have fucked us? Do we have time to wait for Republicans to really get it? Maybe we do, but I have a hard time seeing that. I think it will take full on, open, brutal militarized fascism before they see it and even then, about a quarter of them will not only go along with that fascism but be happy it is finally, really here. And by then, it'll be far too late and guess who the rest of them not fully on board will blame for that? They'll find someone and it won't be anyone of the right wing persuasion.
I hope you and RA are right and I am wrong.
Only a fool lets someone else tell him who his enemy is. Assata Shakur
Some of them can never be reached; nor should we even try
True, but imagine it with full-scale dismantling of Medicare and SS, and the complete elimination of food stamps. Combined with the expansion of death penalty cases, outlawing abortion, severe restrictions on protests, even more cops and private prisons, and dramatically raising taxes on the poor.
Oh, and public subsidies for churches.
A certain percentage of Repubs is unreachable. That's just life.
A certain percentage of the peasants will always worship at the feet of their masters.
True, but that's not the same as never changing their minds.
Like with the Iraq war, according to polls a large slice of Repubs have convinced themselves that they always opposed the invasion as a bad idea.
They've forgotten calling antiwar people "traitors".
True. I'm not saying that this isn't possible.
I'm saying that even a majority of TPTB don't want this outcome (a plurality probably do).
LOL on trying.
Sometimes my old Republican parental arguments come roaring up to the surface. I tried so many times but never really got through. Now they're all dead and I can at least look at their pictures sometimes and say, well, we're getting what you all apparently wanted, happy now? Old habits die hard but I am getting better.
Only a fool lets someone else tell him who his enemy is. Assata Shakur
If Bernie overcomes the cheating it won't be because the DNC
held back even the tinniest bit. They will completely tear apart the Democratic Party before they let Bernie win. It's clear to me that, for whatever reason, they are terrified, not simply disgusted with the idea of Bernie becoming president.
I don't believe that they are weighing the pros and cons of cheating Bernie. I think they are already 100% committed to it.
I agree.
I'm just hoping someone with full knowledge of it comes forward.
I'm also pretty sure that none of it will be in any emails so a recording will do just fine. I'm sure there are more than a few wiki types just waiting for something to show if they're stupid enough to do it. Pardon me.....they absolutey are stupid enough.
Regardless of the path in life I chose, I realize it's always forward, never straight.
Could we have another Seth Rich?
That “botched robbery” was a message. Is there anyone willing to be a martyr?
Idolizing a politician is like believing the stripper really likes you.
Seths problem
was that it hasn't been proven that he was behind the leak of the emails.
The truth, if there is any, will likely be buried as long as JFK has been.
Regardless of the path in life I chose, I realize it's always forward, never straight.
Indeed
There one person who could say for sure, and he’s not saying.
Idolizing a politician is like believing the stripper really likes you.
Now that I've listened to
so many George Webb audios, I understand why they don't want Bernie as POTUS. He will definitely upset their apple cart once he knows the level of corruption. Herr Drumpf has found out and here we are.
We'll see what happens. People need to know what is going on beneath the surface. The government is rotten to the core. The only way around it is to start over, which is what they fear.
Maybe Bernie is playing the innocent so he can get in and clean house. We've got to vote these corrupt people out. Now I understand why AOC beating Crowley was so huge - he was probably in on the shenanigans - how could he not? So much is making sense - unfortunately.
"The “jumpers” reminded us that one day we will all face only one choice and that is how we will die, not how we will live." Chris Hedges on 9/11
Joe Crowley
wasn't just "in on the shenanigans," he was the Ring Master. The Uber Boss of Queens and the Bronx.
He was so confident of his invulnerability that he hadn't lived (or been seen) in his district in two decades.
And then.......Enter AOC.
NYCVG
Thank goodness.
This is why they are so afraid of progressives unseating them. This is why they are threatening campaign workers to stay away from anyone challenging an incumbent. It's all making sense.
"The “jumpers” reminded us that one day we will all face only one choice and that is how we will die, not how we will live." Chris Hedges on 9/11
We'll know soon
If they are 100% committed to it then there is no way that they will allow Bernie to win Nevada.
I mean why hold back at all, if you are all-in?
If Bernie still wins Nevada then that is proof that they are not 100% committed in my opinion.
I think you are underestimating TPTB.
Bernie winning Nevada
I agree with you gjohnsit and so I expect an endless long night on Saturday.
It will tell us a lot if the Caucus results are reported in a timely manner. And a lot if those results are withheld and/or clearly bogus.
NYCVG
I'd say the rigging worked very well in Iowa
Delegates weren't what was at stake, perception was, and by calling the election for Buttigieg and making the story about Buttigieg's surprising "upset" it gave Pete a major boost heading into NH. It's hard to steal an election outright, but when you control the counting as well as the media it's certainly possible to change who people thought won. Notice the AP never did call the race.
Think, man.
If they were willing to lose 900+ state legislative seats and every branch of the Federal government during Obama's tenure without batting an eyelash, do you think they care about their reputation upon being found out rigging the primaries? They've already been caught doing it in Iowa.
The ruling classes need an extra party to make the rest of us feel as if we participate in democracy. That's what the Democrats are for. They make the US more durable than the Soviet Union was.
Losing elections is different from rigging them
A loss of legitimacy has a far bigger price than losing a few elections.
They may be willing to pay that price, but you shouldn't just assume it.
I'd like to agree with that
but I don't think it's true. There are so many ways to rig elections that are opaque to the general public; therefore, they can't respond to what they can't see. Florida 2000 was totally rigged (just not well enough to get Bush though the ballot counting), and they paid no price at all. Finally, when the rigging is blatant and successful and helps one's own team, the response is "all's fair in love and war." Hillary/DNC got caught on some it in 2016 (more remains suspected by some but evidence was destroyed in the process), but that's not why she lost to Trump.
Marie is right gjohnsit
There was documented election fraud in at least a dozen states in the 2016 primaries. They don't care.
The ruling classes need an extra party to make the rest of us feel as if we participate in democracy. That's what the Democrats are for. They make the US more durable than the Soviet Union was.
Surely the current DP ptb
have gamed out all the possible scenarios. Unfortunately for them, there aren't any obviously good options.
The 1972 play appeared to be far less dangerous. Democrats controlled the House and Senate, New Deal socialism was mostly favored by Democratic politicians and voters, and Republicans weren't well positioned to take either the House or Senate in 1972. The big divide, and this crossed party lines, was war and peace, but the Paris Peace Accords appeared to be near completion. So, the DP ptb chose a lame duck Nixon and maintenance of the MIC, and live to take in all back in '76.
They never did -- in their cleverness they lost the soul and being of the then modern Democratic Party. I doubt they want it back. Therefore, rallying around Sanders is not an option. But doing to him what they did to McGovern means a much more obvious endorsement of Trump; one that Trump and the current GOP will remind them and the public of everyday, making DP antics look even more shallow. But Mikey (a Republican like them) just might fix it -- for them -- if they can hand him the nomination without looking like completely crooked pols.
Nevada Caucus Riot
It wouldn't surprise me if video of a Bernie Bro nobody has ever seen before throwing a chair at a Black Guns Matter guy nobody has ever seen before emerges from the Nevada caucus. The stage was set by the 2016 chair-throwing claim combined with Sunday's "brawl" at Sanders' Colorado event.
the DNC wants bloomberg to be kingmaker, IMHO
He's in it to buy as many votes as it takes to keep a majority primary winner from a first ballot win at the convention - Biden was tanking, Buttigieg was not withstanding the scrutiny his out-of-nowhere candidacy finally earned, etc. So, if they can somehow keep Bernie from owning a majority and winning on the first ballot, then the delegate swapping and super-delegate game gets played and we get another consensus BS candidate who will again lose.
I don't believe Bloomberg merely entered with the short-term goal of testing the waters with $300 + dollars out of the gate. IMHO, they have a longer game plan with branching possible moves.
Why else make room in the debates for a republican in all but (very recent) name? Desperate? Yes. ytuned as Bernie continues to win primaries, and pass the popcorn. May the margin of his victories grow enough to prevent the old boy network from doing the old-fashioned rigging they do so well.
"Fear is the mind-killer" - Frank Herbert, Dune
Of course the cheating will be out in the open.
The first group of people democrats cheat are other democrats. I have seen it in the elections I have worked. It is almost in the DNA of the party.
There were absolutely no consequences to Iowa. The major media outlets were out shaming people who called it a rigged vote as Russian disinformation or a simple whoopsie-ho-never-mind.
Bernie needs to step up and do something that causes consequences or at least fear. Then it will stop. I do however think that there are some establishment figures that understand the consequences of cheating Sanders. But can they stop it from happening?
From this point on, the democratic and media establishment will do whatever they can to stop Sanders.
Seems to me that this is what we have already
We really only have one party in this country and it's not the one that represents we the people in anyway. We might get a few bones thrown to us now and then, but like the ACA it's mostly a gift to the insurance companies.
There will come a point
in the cycle when it starts to dawn on the establishment that Sanders is going to win. It won't be everyone at first, and many will be in denial long after it's obvious, some won't even accept it when he's sworn in. But little by little they'll be convinced. It will reach a tipping point.
Republicans aren't scared of Trump, they're scared of the voters. They're out of a job, out of power, if they cross him.
Both parties have been heaping power onto the Presidency for decades. The Founders didn't envision that, they thought the Congress would jealously guard their power against the Executive branch. A Republic, if you can keep it (I think that was Franklin).
Once it's clear that Sanders is going to win, clear that the voters are behind him (we aren't yet, but it's coming), their only path to power is to suck up to the new King. And suck up they will.
I remember Obama gave a speech to a bunch of Republican Congressmen at some retreat they were having. It was his usual empty rhetoric, but the interesting part was after he was done. They all ran up to get his autograph. These bastards crave power more than air.
In 11 months, Sanders is going to have the power.
"The greatest shortcoming of the human race is our inability to understand the exponential function." -- Albert Bartlett
"A species that is hurtling toward extinction has no business promoting slow incremental change." -- Caitlin Johnstone
I love optimists
However, four years on it still hasn't dawned on those same right-wing Democrats and Democratic elites that Trump won. Zero reflection in that circle on how and why that happened and how he could possibly remain in office since then.
Just an historical comment.
Most of us are concerned with how the Dems will cheat and how the Repubs will help them do it. I have no ideas about the how, I just know that it is happening again but this time is much more obvious. In itself this development will not cause revolution although it could cause much "civil unrest."
What I remember is that FDR saved capitalism with the New Deal and got away with it because the oligarchs realized that the country was very close to insurrection in the '30's and backed away. Remember there were no safety nets in those times. They came later in response to the hard times and political danger to the rich. The rich realized how dangerous the times were for them. The Russian Revolution was still pretty recent.
The Powell Memo (1971) was a good blueprint for the right to follow for undoing the New Deal but it contains nothing to placate the poor and disenfranchised. If the next depression (which all the smart money says is coming sooner rather than later) is as deep as some of us think it will be, then the oligarchs are going to have to put all of their faith in the militarized police and right wing thugs. Especially if the safety net is completely shredded and the currency depreciates dramatically which seems to be the aim of both parties. The majority of Americans will be poor and will lose much of the trappings of the good life upon which they have come to depend. They will not be pleased.
-Greed is not a virtue.
-Socialism: the radical idea of sharing.
-Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable.
John F. Kennedy, In a speech at the White House, 1962