Sometimes Bernie is too damn collegial! SMH

Zephyr Teachout had a oped at The Guardian that I tend to agree with.

A portion of which.

It looks like “Middle Class” Joe has perfected the art of taking big contributions, then representing his corporate donors at the cost of middle- and working-class Americans. Converting campaign contributions into legislative favors and policy positions isn’t being “moderate”. It is the kind of transactional politics Americans have come to loathe.

There are three clear examples.

First, Biden’s support for finance over working-class Americans. His career was bankrolled by the credit card industry. He delivered for it by spearheading a bankruptcy bill that made it harder for Americans to reduce their debts and helped cause the financial crisis. He not only authored and voted for that bill, he split with Barack Obama and led the battle to vote down Democratic amendments.His explanations for carrying water for the credit card industry have changed over time. They have never rung true.

The simplest explanation is the most likely: he did it for his donors. At a fundraiser last year, Biden promised his Wall Street donors that “nothing would fundamentally change” for them if he became president. Now the financial world is raising huge money for his campaign. It clearly thinks he’s going to be its friend if elected. Most Americans, who get ripped off by the financial sector on a daily basis, aren’t looking for a candidate who has made their life harder.

There is more at the provided link.

So how does Bernie respond to this?

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/479084-sanders-apologizes-to-biden...

Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) apologized to former Vice President Joe Biden (D) Sunday night after an op-ed by a Sanders campaign surrogate published in The Guardian accused Biden of corruption.

The Vermont senator told CBS News that he regretted the message published by Sanders surrogate Zephyr Teachout, who does not hold an official role with the campaign but has endorsed and introduced the senator at his rallies.

"It is absolutely not my view that Joe is corrupt in any way. And I'm sorry that that op-ed appeared," Sanders told the news channel.

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Comments

I will keep trying. LOL I saw the"hint" but couldn't figure how to apply it.

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7 users have voted.

@humphrey
in the FAQs, especially the FAQ about using the toolbar above the editor. Most everything you need to post is included in the toolbar.

The FAQs can be found by hovering over the "Navigation" button and then select "FAQ".

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11 users have voted.

@JtC @JtC Will check it out.

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Wally's picture

@humphrey

. . . for quite some time. He's usually been decent with Bernie but I'm not surprised he jumped at the chance to criticize him here.

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8 users have voted.

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17 users have voted.
Wally's picture

@humphrey

. . . a destroyer of democracy because he has rent the Democratic Party with his divisiveness. Of course this is BS but that's the talking point coming from Brock (Biden) and his many stooges. They will soon enough be dovetailing/horsehoeing with Trump, contending in unison that Bernie is a Russian agent.

It seems that Brock has been hired on by Biden (or is at least being supportive of him for the time being as directed by Clintons Inc.) After scuttling Shareblue, lookee here for a new project: https://twitter.com/USCentrist

I don't put anything past Brock and his minions. Anything.

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14 users have voted.
Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@Wally

This is Karl Rove politics. There is no way to avoid the hatchet jobs. The best way to weather them is never to say anything you aren't willing to stand by forever, regardless of the attacks of the powerful, never to lie, and never to break with an ally who is being honest and consistent.

Bernie's pretty great at the first two. He just failed at the third.

Teachout was being honest and consistent. Her article is based on fact. Bernie's rebuttal of her is not based on fact. It's based on manners, which in this case must be based on fear of what people will say about him and his campaign. Or maybe, if I'm gonna give him the utmost benefit of the doubt, fear of hurting Joe Biden as a person, because he likes him. Neither of these motivations makes Bernie's non-factual protection of Biden a politically good move. And if Bernie thinks that doing this is going to get Biden or the establishment to stop doing character assassinations upon him, he's plain wrong.

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16 users have voted.

Actually, the issue at stake is patriotism. You must return to your world and put an end to the Commies. All it takes are a few good men.
--Q

Exit polls not involving George W. Bush or Hillary Clinton tend to be quite accurate.
--Doug Hatlem

snoopydawg's picture

@Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal

Neither of these motivations makes Bernie's non-factual protection of Biden a politically good move. And if Bernie thinks that doing this is going to get Biden or the establishment to stop doing character assassinations upon him, he's plain wrong.

Why is it just Bernie who has to play nice when other candidates don't? And why the hell should he have to tell people supporting him to be nice to other candidates and their supporters? Who decided that a person who has millions of supporters is responsible for every damn thing they say? Neera Turner is stoking the crap on Twitter every day hour after hour yet in the next tweets she asks for unity. So it's okay for the head of Hillary's CAP organization to stir the shiite, but it's not okay for others to stand up for their candidate?

I think this was a weak move on Bernie's part and I really question why he did it. He could have said that Teachout is entitled to her opinion and leave it at that. Besides nothing she said war wrong. Biden is as corrupt as any one in congress. The stuff that is coming out from what he did in Ukraine shows that. Unfortunately Biden wasn't the only one that did it. Both parties play fast and loose with money. If it happened in Ukraine I am betting it happened elsewhere.

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12 users have voted.

America is a pathetic nation; a fascist state fueled by the greed, malice, and stupidity of her own people.
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Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@snoopydawg

of redefining basic civility as "don't say anything we don't like, whether it's true or not" is problematic. And that's what they're trying to sell, even more than the idea that Bernie is bad.

Interesting that we're not supposed to #BelieveTeachout, but, oh well. I never #Believed that any of those hashtags were anything other than a hypocritical psy op anyway. The fact that honest ordinary people got sucked into them and told true stories didn't change who designed the things or who was ultimately steering the conversations engendered by them. They probably couldn't have continued to control those conversations as more and more ordinary women got involved in them, without the press, whose main job these days seems to be keeping Americans from getting into the wrong sort of talks with each other.

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9 users have voted.

Actually, the issue at stake is patriotism. You must return to your world and put an end to the Commies. All it takes are a few good men.
--Q

Exit polls not involving George W. Bush or Hillary Clinton tend to be quite accurate.
--Doug Hatlem

@Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal
Bernie's apology gives the Teachout comment vastly more exposure and appears to show him to be a stand up guy.

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6 users have voted.
Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@FuturePassed

The good side of what Bernie did is that it spreads Teachout's message and allows Bernie to say the words "Biden" and "corrupt" together over and over.

But it does not make him look like a stand-up guy. It makes him look weak, like a leader who doesn't have control of his troops. It also makes him look weak like a guy who has been forced to back down and grovel before an opponent.

It implicitly concedes the point that Bernie ought to be able to control what his supporters say about other candidates. That idea contains many loathsome subsets. Think about it.

It also implicitly concedes that there's something wrong with calling candidates corrupt. Some candidates.

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6 users have voted.

Actually, the issue at stake is patriotism. You must return to your world and put an end to the Commies. All it takes are a few good men.
--Q

Exit polls not involving George W. Bush or Hillary Clinton tend to be quite accurate.
--Doug Hatlem

Wally's picture

@Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal

Biden was calling for Bernie to back down on his social security claims. Not only has Bernie refused to grovel, but he has amped up his attack with the new 30 second attack ad on the issue against Biden that now is being unleashed in Iowa and the early primary and caucus states.

I think the apology wasn't that big a thing. The article is still featured in the Guardian (now along with the response piece to Hillary's broadsides from her former surrogates Peter and Leela Daou). My guess is that Sirota's newspaper connections got both articles in The Guardian. Teachout still has her say (good for her!) in a big international publication and Bernie looks like he's concerned about unity in the party and not simply being a maverick who wants to destroy the party's chances of beating Trump in November. Win-win all around. I mean the target thay are painting on Bernie's back is based on him being divisive and hurting the party and helping Trump. The bleating about Bernie being a Putin agent is also ramping up slowly but surely.

The apology is already yesterday's news and nobody is going on about it except lefties on online discussion forums. The MSM is focused on impeachment and will be for awhile. I don't think it's a bad thing to discuss the effectiveness of this or that strategy and tactic, though.

BTW, I'm expecting Obama to attack Bernie before the CNN town hall forums with the individual candidates next week. Maybe not. Maybe he'll wait till before Super Tuesday and time it based on teh results of the four early primaries/caucuses. Time sure flies.

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Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@Wally

Bernie will weather this just fine.

I'm guessing this is like a batting rotation. Obama is the slugger who's fourth in the order. After Warren, Clinton, and Buttigieg, expect him to come to try to clean up.

But since they have one person on first and two outs, Obama will have a more difficult time batting runs in than I bet they expected.

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2 users have voted.

Actually, the issue at stake is patriotism. You must return to your world and put an end to the Commies. All it takes are a few good men.
--Q

Exit polls not involving George W. Bush or Hillary Clinton tend to be quite accurate.
--Doug Hatlem

snoopydawg's picture

This might be Bernie's opinion,

"It is absolutely not my view that Joe is corrupt in any way. And I'm sorry that that op-ed appeared," Sanders told the news channel

but he knows damn well that Biden's history is full of legislation that screwed us.

What here is not true?

The simplest explanation is the most likely: he did it for his donors. At a fundraiser last year, Biden promised his Wall Street donors that “nothing would fundamentally change” for them if he became president. Now the financial world is raising huge money for his campaign. It clearly thinks he’s going to be its friend if elected. Most Americans, who get ripped off by the financial sector on a daily basis, aren’t looking for a candidate who has made their life harder.

Joe is not only corrupt he is also a liar. He said he won't take big money and yet the night after he said that he goes to a fundraiser by big insurance and pharma.

What did all these donors get? A healthcare proposal that preserves the power of the insurance industry and leaves 10 million Americans uninsured.

Bingo!

But here’s the thing: nominating a candidate like Biden will make it far more difficult to defeat Trump.

If Bernie or Warren won't go after ByeDone hard for the things he has done you know that Trump will. And there is lots of ammo against Joe that it'd be like shooting fish in a barrel. Not just his heinous legislation, but his handsy groping of women and girls.

Hillary already proved that people are sick of the status quo and seeing their lives getting harder and harder while rich f'cks keep getting more of the pie.

Just over 2,100 people own more money than 4.6 billion people. In the video I watched it shows how rich people get congress to futz with the tax codes. Utah just cut taxes on corporations while raising them on food. Guess who that is going to affect the most? Yep!

You seem to be doing a great job posting here. Have fun here cuz we don't bite.

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28 users have voted.

America is a pathetic nation; a fascist state fueled by the greed, malice, and stupidity of her own people.
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Pricknick's picture

@snoopydawg
that you haven't found the abundance of reasons to leave mormon country. The church runs (as if you didn't know) that state.
I'd donate to a gofundme to help you getthefuck out of there.

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Regardless of the path in life I chose, I realize it's always forward, never straight.

snoopydawg's picture

@Pricknick

I am seriously thinking about leaving. I have no family left that I can't do without seeing. Just need to decide where to go. California is out cuz of cost of living. But maybe Oregon down by the state line? Anyone have any suggestions? But I would miss winter.

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America is a pathetic nation; a fascist state fueled by the greed, malice, and stupidity of her own people.
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Centaurea's picture

@snoopydawg @snoopydawg

is out of sight. I'm in western Washington State, and I'm looking to move on. It's a physically beautiful place, but it's always been expensive, and has gotten worse over the past 10 years. Not to mention the fact that it's neoliberal, a fact I did not understand until after I got here.

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16 users have voted.

"Don't go back to sleep ... Don't go back to sleep ... Don't go back to sleep."
~Rumi

"If you want revolution, be it."
~Caitlin Johnstone

@Centaurea

I've just started making a rough 5 year plan to move out west because I have family out there, and since I've been disabled for most of my adult life and don't travel particularly well due to that, I'd like to be closer to them. Are places like Yakima or Spokane any more livable? I've heard they're both more rural and conservative but I've never had trouble in those social environments even though I came up a city-rat wiseass leftist.

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10 users have voted.
PriceRip's picture

@Reverend Jane Ignatowski

          Yakima is far enough away from the Tri-Cities and close enough to Ellensburg to be reasonably livable. Spokane is my favorite location in the Inland Empire / Scablands even as it is growing into a megalopolis conjoined with Coeur d'Alene, Idaho.

RIP

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"I know you believe you understand what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant."
Robert J. McCloskey, U.S. State Department spokesman. From a press briefing during the Vietnam war.

Centaurea's picture

@PriceRip
It's helpful to know. Eastern Washington is one of the areas I'm considering moving to. I'd rather not make another cross-country move if I can avoid it.

Do you know anything about Walla Walla? It's east of the Tri-Cities, but is it far enough away?

@Reverend Jane Ignatowski The eastern part of WA is conservative, but I understand that there's a progressive movement getting started there. I'm originally from a conservative area (the Deep South!), and I enjoy living in small towns, so like you, it wouldn't scare me to live there.

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5 users have voted.

"Don't go back to sleep ... Don't go back to sleep ... Don't go back to sleep."
~Rumi

"If you want revolution, be it."
~Caitlin Johnstone

@Centaurea

there's a progressive movement getting started there

Appreciate the hope

@PriceRip

A nickels worth of free thoughts

and change. Wink

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PriceRip's picture

@Centaurea

          the place so beautiful they named it twice …

          As I was growing up my dad and I would drive through that part of Washington often. Walla Walla is a rural but connected with Milton-Freewater to make a reasonable sized population center. From your self-description you would be familiar with what it would be like living there. The college enhances its desirability in the usual ill-defined ways of all college towns. It was and, I think, still is in the middle of Apple Country writ large (id est known far and wide).

          In the 1968-70 school year I and a few guys drove from Pendleton, OR (BMCC) to play chess with students at Whitman College. It was only later that I internalizes the significance of the Whitmans and their "Mission" to the area.

          Having grown up (poor) in the area I have no desire to live in that part of the Pacific Northwest, but I hope to visit this area often during whatever time I have left on Earth.

Smile

RIP

Edit

It's east of the Tri-Cities, but is it far enough away?

          The Walla Walla / Milton-Freewater socio-economic zone is reasonably well separated from the Tri-Cities from what I can discern. It's a long and complicated discussion, but I hope the "migrant" population is treated well.

RIP

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6 users have voted.

"I know you believe you understand what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant."
Robert J. McCloskey, U.S. State Department spokesman. From a press briefing during the Vietnam war.

Centaurea's picture

@PriceRip
The college town aspect appeals to me, but the Whitman connection gives me pause.

I've lived along the Columbia River for 10 years now. It's such a beautiful area, but the white "settlers" and then later the federal government have created such havoc and disaster for the Natives and to the natural environment. The sense of pain and sorrow is almost tangible there.

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5 users have voted.

"Don't go back to sleep ... Don't go back to sleep ... Don't go back to sleep."
~Rumi

"If you want revolution, be it."
~Caitlin Johnstone

PriceRip's picture

@Centaurea

          We (you and I) could do a whole series. This is true everywhere I have connections.

          Not only in Oregon involving the Cayuse, Umatilla, and Walla Walla of the Confederated Tribes of the Umatilla Indian Reservation we could talk about the Northeastern part of Arizona, and then getting to know the various Lakota people of the midwest.

          While I am not an anthropologist or anything close to that I have spent a bit of time discovering the reality (as opposed to the mythical tales) of the Westward Expansion.

RIP

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4 users have voted.

"I know you believe you understand what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant."
Robert J. McCloskey, U.S. State Department spokesman. From a press briefing during the Vietnam war.

lotlizard's picture

@Centaurea  
https://nypost.com/2020/01/15/windowless-underground-sleeping-pods-could...

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Centaurea's picture

@lotlizard
for a small house was $900/month. Today I'm paying almost $2,200. I'm not talking about a fancy house in a gentrified neighborhood, either.

If someone had told me that I would ever be paying this amount of money for rent, I would have thought they were nuts. Frankly, it is nuts.

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6 users have voted.

"Don't go back to sleep ... Don't go back to sleep ... Don't go back to sleep."
~Rumi

"If you want revolution, be it."
~Caitlin Johnstone

@snoopydawg @snoopydawg There are great alternatives if you expand your horizons.

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10 users have voted.

@snoopydawg Northern New Mexico. The COL is low except for a few hot spots. Overall it's a fairly Blue state though fairly poor. Scenery in places is similar to Utah plus southern CO is very close. NW NM is close to Utah, by Western driving standards. We've got a woman governor who seems to be heading things in the right direction unlike the horrid GOPer woman who preceeded her.

I think Utah will eventually move left. The population is fairly forward looking in many things. Maybe if a new federal voting rights law is passed that ends gerrymandering then the urban areas will get their fair share of government rather than remaining under the thumb of the rural reactionaries. At that point the Church will go with the flow as it can be very pragmatic when it wants, or has, to be.

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8 users have voted.
Centaurea's picture

@MinuteMan
when I relocated to the Pacific NW from Katrina-land, I remember driving through NM and thinking "If things don't work out in WA and OR, New Mexico will be my second choice."

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2 users have voted.

"Don't go back to sleep ... Don't go back to sleep ... Don't go back to sleep."
~Rumi

"If you want revolution, be it."
~Caitlin Johnstone

PriceRip's picture

@snoopydawg

          Check out the Bear Creek Valley along I-5 thirty or so miles north of California. This is deep south county with far too many goobers, hicks, and some Mormons.

          But, there are some positives.

          It is possible to not get in over your head (financially that is) if you plan carefully. There is a good sized OLLI community here, and a core of real progressives (small in number and as tenacious as me) that can, I hope, create real change.

          Long story, short version: I still have hope I can be involved in the kind of changes here as I was involved with in Nebraska.

RIP

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9 users have voted.

"I know you believe you understand what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant."
Robert J. McCloskey, U.S. State Department spokesman. From a press briefing during the Vietnam war.

thanatokephaloides's picture

@snoopydawg

Anyone have any suggestions? But I would miss winter.

COLORADO.

Go East, young lady, go East!

Just one State line to cross, and you have everything Utah has to offer, plus reasonable alcohol and cannabis laws, and winter too. Shelter costs, on the Eastern Slope outside the overgrown cancer on the South Platte River Denver Metro are similar to those in the Mor[m]on State.

Think about it!

Clockwise listing of the Four Corners States: New Mexico, Arizona, Utah, and Civilization! Biggrin

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6 users have voted.

"I say enough! If Israel wants to be the only superpower in the Middle East then they can put their own asses on the line and do it themselves. I want to continue to eat."
-- snoopydawg

snoopydawg's picture

@snoopydawg

like this?

Hillary Clinton Candidly Criticizes Bernie Sanders In New Documentary

Clinton declined to say whether she would endorse Sanders if he becomes the 2020 nominee, in an interview promoting her new Hulu documentary.

Hillary Clinton gives an unvarnished view of her 2016 Democratic presidential primary opponent Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) in a new Hulu documentary airing in March, according to The Hollywood Reporter.

“He was in Congress for years,” she says of Sanders in the documentary, per an interview with THR published Tuesday. “He had one senator support him. Nobody likes him, nobody wants to work with him, he got nothing done. He was a career politician. It’s all just baloney and I feel so bad that people got sucked into it.”

In the interview, Clinton declined to say whether she would endorse and campaign for Sanders if he becomes the nominee. Instead, she went on to criticize “the culture around him,” including the sexist verbal attacks that his supporters, often referred to as “Bernie Bros,” have launched on social media in the past. Sanders condemned their comments at the time.

She also took aim at Sanders allegedly telling Sen. Elizabeth Warren (D-Mass.) during a 2018 meeting that he didn’t believe a woman could defeat President Donald Trump in 2020. Sanders has denied the exchange ever happened.

“Well, number one, I think [that sentiment] is untrue, which we should all say loudly. I mean, I did get more votes both in the primary, by about 4 million, and in the general election, by about 3 million,” Clinton said, calling the alleged comments “a very personal attack on [Warren].”

Uhg I am not going to write out loud what I am thinking about this woman. But she needs to get the f'ck over the fact that she lost. Not because she is a woman and people don't want a woman president. Many people in fact did vote for a woman to be president. Jill Stein. But what people did not want was what Hillary was bringing to the country. They rejected it when Bill gave it to us. When Obama did and when she did. So crawl under a rock somewhere Hillary and stfu. Your time has come and gone and you were rejected and you need to at long last come to terms with that.

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14 users have voted.

America is a pathetic nation; a fascist state fueled by the greed, malice, and stupidity of her own people.
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ovals49's picture

@snoopydawg

She has no other objective but to see herself, or one of her clones, as first woman president.

No shame, only avarice.

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16 users have voted.

“Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth.” Albert Einstein

“And an uncomfortable truth is always superior to a comfortable fantasy.” Caitlin Johnstone

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@snoopydawg

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15 users have voted.

Actually, the issue at stake is patriotism. You must return to your world and put an end to the Commies. All it takes are a few good men.
--Q

Exit polls not involving George W. Bush or Hillary Clinton tend to be quite accurate.
--Doug Hatlem

snoopydawg's picture

@snoopydawg

I don’t understand the instinct to divide Dems and stoke rancor. She just took away the argument that Sanders was excessively divisive. Hillary’s comments about Bernie are gratuitous, and toxic, themselves. She needs to move on, but that seems to be beyond her.

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13 users have voted.

America is a pathetic nation; a fascist state fueled by the greed, malice, and stupidity of her own people.
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22 users have voted.
snoopydawg's picture

......

Wally mentioned that if you put words before the tweet it posts bigger.

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24 users have voted.

America is a pathetic nation; a fascist state fueled by the greed, malice, and stupidity of her own people.
- strife delivery

@snoopydawg The never Bernie crowd will use it against him no matter what. The truth is not one of their redeeming qualities.

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12 users have voted.
snoopydawg's picture

@humphrey

Neera Neera is all over Twitter telling people to do what Bernie's doing and then saying that they are being mean to her. I tweeted her and said she better not ask for unity and people to vote blue no matter who after she has been stirring shit. Plus this.

IMG_0764.JPG

I agree with this.

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21 users have voted.

America is a pathetic nation; a fascist state fueled by the greed, malice, and stupidity of her own people.
- strife delivery

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@snoopydawg

Steph Zamorano's impersonation of Neera Tanden would be award-winning, if we had anything that was awarded primarily on merit.

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10 users have voted.

Actually, the issue at stake is patriotism. You must return to your world and put an end to the Commies. All it takes are a few good men.
--Q

Exit polls not involving George W. Bush or Hillary Clinton tend to be quite accurate.
--Doug Hatlem

Wally's picture

@snoopydawg

. . . and Sirota knows what he's doing. I notice that Bernie hasn't apologized for Sirota who has been relentlessly blistering in his attacks on Biden.

Sirota is in Bernie's employ. Teachout isn't.

Don't be so sure that this wasn't played out and coordinated by Sirota/Bernie. I wouldn't be the least surprised if Teachout knew what to expect all along, too.

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17 users have voted.

@Wally In the US even the truth can backfire. It may be wise to have someone outside of the campaign do the try out. I all of a sudden had a thought that this might have been going on in the political world for a longer time....in some ways it's what RWNutjob media does.

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13 users have voted.

@Wally been showing the record, calling out Biden in the DP area, just as Bernie has called out Biden for his Iraq vote. If Bernie starts apologizing for Sirota's efforts, then we'll know for sure Bernie has chosen the Neville Chamberlain-Mike Dukakis road to capitulation and defeat.

And, no, I don't think this was some carefully coordinated 11-D Chess effort by Sanders/Teachout. This is the Obama Apologist method of excusing displays of weakness by one's favored pol. Perhaps that sounds a bit harsh, but if we rightly mock these things re Obama, we shouldn't be shy about calling it plain when it involves Bernie.

This one was an unnecessary overreaction to tough but true comments by a supporter, not someone part of the official campaign. Or, if not actual corruption by Biden, it certainly has the appearance of same. If Teachout were actually on the Bernie campaign, I could understand. But Bernie should not put himself in a position where he is apologizing for what his supporters say. That seems like opening the door to many apologies in the future.

I don't like this one, and it doesn't bode well for the general if Bernie somehow manages to overcome Biden. Will he treat the Don with similar kid gloves? "I respect the President. We just disagree on some issues"?

Long ago I got fed up with Dems always apologizing for using tough but fair language in a campaign context. It's still the Miss Manners Party, and Bernie seems comfortable with that.

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10 users have voted.
Wally's picture

@wokkamile

I'll stick with Bernie's political savvy and acumen here.

The point is that he hasn't criticized or apologized for Sirota who got the Teachout piece from the Guardian out there even more through the Bern Notice which I can still read in my email mailbox even if it has been deleted from the online version. Sirota's been involved in politics for some time and he knows lots of tricks.

Overaction? Well, at this point given Sirota's ominous warnings last night about forthcoming ominous all-out attacks, I'm gonna guess Bernie's reaction was predicated on having been forewarned about the neutron blast that was detonated today from Hillary.

I'm sure you know that there are altogehter different considerations in terms of attacking primary opponents and an opponent in a general election. There's all sorts of blowback involving the former that can factor into the latter, especially in the position Bernie is in by challenging the party elite. I don't know about 4-D chess, but it's sure as hell a matter of walking a tightrope -- and in Bernie's case, during a hurricane.

And Bernie and Sirota's attacks on Biden have been anything but genteel re. Social Security, M4A, etc. There's good tactical reasons for not slamming head on into Biden re corruption especially when we know the GOP is aiming to turn the Trump trial into the Biden trial. And no good reason to play right into Hillary and the corporate centrists' hands.

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7 users have voted.

@Wally 11-D Chess, please. If Obama could be credited with 11 dimensions, let's not shortchange Bernie.

A better way to handle this would have been for Bernie to say, "I have many passionate supporters out there and I won't always agree with what they say, but unless they are officially part of my campaign, I will not be part of policing their comments nor is it at all fair to hold me accountable for what these independent voices say. And so my only comment will be that my supporter went farther than I would in characterizing my friend Joe Biden, but we also need to be mindful of the toxic influence of big money in our politics, because even the best people can be tainted by it."

No apology. Not responsible for outside-the-campaign comments. Some distancing from Biden w/o putting him on a level ethically and legally with Trump. No enabling the MSM/DNC double standard (per K Ball) on how they take a hard line on "party unity" wrt Bernie and how that gets ignored when negative or caustic comments against the left candidate are made by the acceptable centrists in the party.

Re Hillary, her remarks sound partially like projection -- esp the "unlikable" part. Last I saw, her favorable numbers were below 40; Bernie's above 70. And her remark about not being sure if she would support a Bernie nomination are going to be fair game on the party unity issue going forward -- provided people in the Bernie camp and the candidate himself have the courage to fight back by using the other side's own words against them. An unintended gift to the Sanders campaign.

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7 users have voted.
Wally's picture

@wokkamile

. . . but a surrogate who has been making opening remarks at some of his rallies. I imagine she still will be at least in NYS.

The bad guys are looking to splice together videos of Bernie's remarks so he has to be careful about what he says and what gets pinned to him. And that's similarly to if he had gone all out on combatting all the Russia nonsense.

With Biden as their favorite candidate, they sure as hell can't let up on the us against Russia crapola because Burisma and the investment they've made in it the last three years.

The Bernie is a Russian asset claim is getting ratcheted up as we debate whether or not he should attack Biden more when he already is doing that and very profoundly and directly. Let the Republicans rip Biden up on Burisma. Bernie hasn't apologized for going after Biden on issues that will hopefully stick and gain Bernie some traction, namely social security and civil rights.

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5 users have voted.
Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@Wally

would be a reason to make these political moves.

I hope you're right, and this isn't just one more instance of a person being given a talking to off camera and then sent on camera to abase themselves before the powerful.

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7 users have voted.

Actually, the issue at stake is patriotism. You must return to your world and put an end to the Commies. All it takes are a few good men.
--Q

Exit polls not involving George W. Bush or Hillary Clinton tend to be quite accurate.
--Doug Hatlem

@snoopydawg He can even categorically defend him by listing many of the things Teachout did and conclude that they're all legal and that lots of congressmen do it. Thus Biden is not corrupt but that's not how a Sanders administration will do things.

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9 users have voted.
WaterLily's picture

@snoopydawg Look at the skillful wording:

It is absolutely not my view that Joe is corrupt in any way.

He didn't say, "Joe is not corrupt."

Brilliant.

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11 users have voted.
Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@WaterLily

You guys are making me feel better. I hate to see people of integrity abase themselves before this mass of well-paid cowards and bullies.

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9 users have voted.

Actually, the issue at stake is patriotism. You must return to your world and put an end to the Commies. All it takes are a few good men.
--Q

Exit polls not involving George W. Bush or Hillary Clinton tend to be quite accurate.
--Doug Hatlem

TheOtherMaven's picture

@snoopydawg

How to get your message across while seeming to cooperate with the power structure. Shakespeare knew all about it - no fool he.

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7 users have voted.

There is no justice. There can be no peace.

It is absolutely not my view that Joe is corrupt in any way.

This will be why

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20 users have voted.
lotlizard's picture

@gjohnsit  
Attack Trump for not draining the swamp as he promised. But don’t pretend all this Hunter Biden business was clean — that’s like trying to sell the swamp as bedrock-solid dry land.

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11 users have voted.

@lotlizard doesn’t have the same ring, does it?

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7 users have voted.
Wally's picture

@gjohnsit

He's gonna be the poster boy for the word as the impeachment trial proceeds.

Trump will keep repeating how Biden is corrupt. Burisma. Biden. Biden. Burisma.

Neera et al are going to pin everything they can on Bernie. They are already saying that Bernie is helping Trump, making it look like Bernie is the divider and the destroyer of the Democratic Party.

TPTB are unifying at this point, including Clintons Inc., in supporting Biden and using the other candidates (most buying in willingly and I'd say Warren foolishly -- I'm probably too kind) to screw over Bernie.

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12 users have voted.

@Wally
not a bug Wink

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8 users have voted.

May we be united and strong -- laurel

@gjohnsit Good to know that Joe Biden is not influenced by corporate money. See money does not corrupt. What the hell, different points of view on the bankruptcy law is just a disagreement among buddies.

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7 users have voted.
Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@MrWebster

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2 users have voted.

Actually, the issue at stake is patriotism. You must return to your world and put an end to the Commies. All it takes are a few good men.
--Q

Exit polls not involving George W. Bush or Hillary Clinton tend to be quite accurate.
--Doug Hatlem

n/t

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18 users have voted.
snoopydawg's picture

Stop fucking apologizing. This is a fight for our lives, and you're literally our last hope. Act like it. The people running against you are ghouls, and you trying to play nicely with them as they relentlessly attack you is infuriating to your supporters.

t's absurd that this is even being debated.
BERNIE TRIED TO EXPAND SOCIAL SECURITY.
BIDEN TRIED TO CUT IT.
(Several times, openly, on several videos. It's not even remotely debatable. If you disagree, you're absolutely willfully ignorant of the truth).

This is an awful habit of the Sanders campaign to retreat in the face of bad faith criticism and disavow.

Biden was an arm of the financial industry in the Senate. His son has cashed in on family name for decades.

This is how you surrender the narrative and lose.

Stop apologizing to these people,
. They lie and attack this campaign incessantly for media attention and fundraising, and they never retract or apologize to your campaign or your supporters for their daily smears.
This is demoralizing.

Fuck this, these people dump avalanches of shit on us on the site and in the media every single day while we defend this campaign.....for fucking free.
Don't mistake self-defense for attacks. This is bullshit.

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23 users have voted.

America is a pathetic nation; a fascist state fueled by the greed, malice, and stupidity of her own people.
- strife delivery

Pricknick's picture

@snoopydawg
from twit?
I'm not sure as there's no link.

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6 users have voted.

Regardless of the path in life I chose, I realize it's always forward, never straight.

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17 users have voted.

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16 users have voted.
Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@humphrey

distrust Democrats--the thought that some of them might not do their bidding.

So I guess it might well be what the puppets of the rich and powerful, who run the Democratic party, distrust about Bernie and his followers--the thought that they might shut down the gravy train.

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8 users have voted.

Actually, the issue at stake is patriotism. You must return to your world and put an end to the Commies. All it takes are a few good men.
--Q

Exit polls not involving George W. Bush or Hillary Clinton tend to be quite accurate.
--Doug Hatlem

snoopydawg's picture

Here's Krugman going after ByeDone for what he went after Bernie for today.

But even though ByeDone wanted to cut SS many times in his 40 year career we can trust him not to now. At least that's what some of the kids think.

"Fool me once shame on me..fool me again and it's your own damn fault for trusting me!"

OMG. Teachout just got thrown under the bus. Unfuckingbelievable! Yippee for centrists!

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20 users have voted.

America is a pathetic nation; a fascist state fueled by the greed, malice, and stupidity of her own people.
- strife delivery

@snoopydawg for not being a good dem. Didn't Biden, before the last election, give a speech (for 400k$ ?) to some group to present an award? To a republican running for election? and then refuse to endorse the democrat in the same race? Gives a new meaning to "the buck(s) stop here"

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12 users have voted.
snoopydawg's picture

@Snode

instead of the dp candidate. But shhh lets not bring up those embarrassing points about ole Joe. It might get in the way of unity. You know like the article posted today on HuffPoo about Hillary saying horrible things about Bernie, Bernie's bros and everything else she could throw in including how she might not support him in the election. But yeah it's Bernie who is divisive. SMDH.

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5 users have voted.

America is a pathetic nation; a fascist state fueled by the greed, malice, and stupidity of her own people.
- strife delivery

Situational Lefty's picture

“When I argued that we should freeze federal spending, I meant Social Security as well,” he told the Senate in 1995. “I meant Medicare and Medicaid. I meant veterans’ benefits. I meant every single solitary thing in the government. And I not only tried it once, I tried it twice, I tried it a third time, and I tried it a fourth time.” (A freeze would have reduced the amount that would be paid out, cutting the program’s benefit.)

https://theintercept.com/2020/01/13/biden-cuts-social-security/

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19 users have voted.

"He is the truest friend; he has the farthest vision; he is the greatest man I have ever known." --Winston Churchill on Franklin Delano Roosevelt

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9 users have voted.

I hope that Bernie doesn't apologize for it. But it is all true.

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14 users have voted.

It is a natural part of who he is. It could be a disability of sorts, so look at his accomplishments and admire him even more for going at life full force with one arm tied behind his back. I think I know why he is like this, and I'm not gonna say. Better to just let it be.

On the plus side, his ethos, his character, is exceptional, and most honest people know it. So it is a particular kind of advantage. We could let him keep that clean slate and we normies could do the "dirty work" for him -- because all it would entail is telling simple verifiable truths about his enemies. That's easy, we can do that.

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19 users have voted.
Not Henry Kissinger's picture

Bernie always likes to keep the focus on policy differences and avoid personal attacks on his opponents, and while he doesn't tell rank and file supporters what to say, those linked to the campaign are held to a higher standard.

Besides, Bernie is a lot of Biden voters' second choice. No sense in alienating them or, with impeachment coming up, giving Trump any extra ammunition.

Smart move Bernie.

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20 users have voted.

Bernie 2020: Hey, you didn't think this would be easy, did you?

Centaurea's picture

@Not Henry Kissinger This was my thought, as well. Bernie could be concerned about the upcoming trial in the Senate, in which he will be acting as a juror. Joe's *ahem* corrupt acts will undoubtedly be brought up during the course of the trial.

No sense in alienating them or, with impeachment coming up, giving Trump any extra ammunition.

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14 users have voted.

"Don't go back to sleep ... Don't go back to sleep ... Don't go back to sleep."
~Rumi

"If you want revolution, be it."
~Caitlin Johnstone

Wally's picture

@Not Henry Kissinger

Bernie hasn't apologized for anything written or put out there by Sirota. Sirota has been relentless in his attacks on Biden for his stand on the issues, especially regarding cutting social security.

If he starts apologizing for saying stuff a paid surrogate says, then I'll worry about Bernie.

i can see where Bernie draws the line on any charges of corruption. And the point made by the tweeter above is spot on. Not corrupt still puts the emphasis on corrupt. And indeed Bernie has to be super careful about what he says given his role as a juror in the Senate trial.

It's too easy to get sidetracked and off message and even discouraged when the attacks are flying at Bernie from every direction and never seem to stop.

David Brock is a maestro at throwing shit.

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10 users have voted.
Shahryar's picture

there isn't a front-runner. Sure, one or another will be ahead in a poll and maybe Biden is ahead in more than the others but it's not like Biden's got anything sewn up.

So they're all keeping options open, keeping possibilities for alliances. It's cutthroat. Should it be? No, of course not but there's definitely gamesmanship involved.

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11 users have voted.

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/479097-clinton-weighs-in-on-sander...

Former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton (D) unleashed a scathing attack on her 2016 primary rival, Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) on Tuesday as Sanders looks poised to be a top contender in several early 2020 primary contests.

In an interview with The Hollywood Reporter (THR), interviewer Lacey Rose read a quote Clinton gave filmmakers for an upcoming Hulu documentary exploring the 2016 campaign, in which she savaged Sanders's Senate record.

"In the doc, you're brutally honest on Sanders: 'He was in Congress for years. He had one senator support him. Nobody likes him, nobody wants to work with him, he got nothing done. He was a career politician. It's all just baloney and I feel so bad that people got sucked into it,'" Rose says, quoting Clinton. "That assessment still hold?"

"Yes, it does," Clinton responds, before refusing to confirm whether she will endorse or campaign for Sanders should he win the Democratic nomination, a possibility seen as rising following a slew of high-profile progressive endorsements for the Sanders campaign in recent weeks.

"I'm not going to go there yet. We're still in a very vigorous primary season," Clinton said of a possible endorsement for a general election

If Bernie doesn't get 50%+1 of the delegates we can look forward to 4 more years of Trump!

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15 users have voted.
Wally's picture

@humphrey

More like brutally deceitful and entirely despicable.

"In the doc, you're brutally honest on Sanders: 'He was in Congress for years. He had one senator support him. Nobody likes him, nobody wants to work with him, he got nothing done.

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12 users have voted.
Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@Wally

Actually, it's possible that Hillary's "honest criticism" could help the Sanders campaign immensely. It would probably hurt them more if she endorsed him.

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11 users have voted.

Actually, the issue at stake is patriotism. You must return to your world and put an end to the Commies. All it takes are a few good men.
--Q

Exit polls not involving George W. Bush or Hillary Clinton tend to be quite accurate.
--Doug Hatlem

@humphrey

the whole election over to Trump (for the second time).

She's not just a backstabbing you know what... she is a mental case.

The Sanders campaign needs to be very careful and clever with its response. Hillary is trying to blow things out of the water 2 weeks before the Iowa caucuses for Bernie.

I hope he runs the table in the primaries and makes all those snakes in the nest like Hillary scatter.

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17 users have voted.

"Without the right to offend, freedom of speech does not exist." Taslima Nasrin

snoopydawg's picture

@humphrey

My bad for not reading comments before I did. But isn't that just great timing for Her to come out swinging the day after Bernie apologized? This really shows how much of a sore loser She still is. Sorest loser in history. In the dictionary next to the definition of sore loser there will be a history and photo of Her. Sorest loser ever. In history!

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7 users have voted.

America is a pathetic nation; a fascist state fueled by the greed, malice, and stupidity of her own people.
- strife delivery

@snoopydawg The more that is mentioned it might actually sink in that Hillary is a repulsive sore loser.

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8 users have voted.
snoopydawg's picture

@humphrey

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6 users have voted.

America is a pathetic nation; a fascist state fueled by the greed, malice, and stupidity of her own people.
- strife delivery

snoopydawg's picture

@humphrey

The other tweet:

"nobody wants to work with him, he got nothing done."

Hillary - who got stuff done by voting to invade Iraq and pushing to bomb Libya - criticizing Bernie - who got stuff done by getting through a historic and bipartisan anti-Yemen War Powers resolution through Congress.

Maybe, but at this point in the cycle she knows what she's doing, + defeating Trump should be the priority (we're constantly told!) and, +, imagine if Bernie had refused to say whether he'd endorse/campaign for Biden as the nominee? 'Centrists' would (rightly) lose their minds.

Great response to someone who said they won't vote for Berni:

because supporting a revolution for justice for the working class was so unfair to hrc, neoliberal queen. why fight for change when you can vote for a centrist dynasty. yet I held my nose +voted for hrc. too bad she spent her time disdaining deplorables at oligarch fundraisers.

True

If Bernie is the nominee, there’s a greater than 50% chance that Clinton will vote for whoever the Libertarian candidate is. The Democratic establishment would rather burn the party down than let the new young, diverse left get their candidate of choice into the White House.

Bingo!

She would rather see Bernie lose and Trump win just to vindicate her selfish whims. This woman is despicable. I would put her right about even w/ Trump in popularity.

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9 users have voted.

America is a pathetic nation; a fascist state fueled by the greed, malice, and stupidity of her own people.
- strife delivery

snoopydawg's picture

@humphrey

Let's talk about this Hillary.

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10 users have voted.

America is a pathetic nation; a fascist state fueled by the greed, malice, and stupidity of her own people.
- strife delivery

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14 users have voted.

apologizing for something he has no responsibility for, especially to Biden. I think it is consistent with his ethics and how he has conducted himself his whole life. That’s important when there’s very few politicians alive who won’t sacrifice everything for a brief advantage or to score a cheap point.

He’s taking responsibility for his campaign. Full stop. He’s doing it despite potential harm to himself because he thinks that’s what leaders do. I also don’t think he would have done this if Zephyr hadn’t used the word corruption. It is by any reasonable definition but it’s more or less legal and ops normal in our politics. Personally I’m sick to death of leaders who seem to take the lead only when it benefits them. That’s why we’re in the mess we’re in as a people and country. Winning isn’t everything but that attitude is a big part of the problem.

I like the spirited discussion on this. There’s a lot to digest. I may change my mind but I think this isn’t a big deal that should hurt Bernie’s campaign.

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10 users have voted.
Wally's picture

@vtcc73

. . . this morning featured in The Hill online publication.

It will be interesting to see how Rising deals with this.

They are really afraid that Bernie can win. And they are going all-out against him even before Iowa. In 2016, they waited until Bernie won in Michigan (they didn't take him the least bit seriously before that) to release the Kracken.

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13 users have voted.

@Wally @Wally Hillary only has any credibility with her diehard supporters. Nobody else has the slightest consideration for anything she says. This is shoring up the DNC/Biden against defectors to Bernie. It’s still dangerous but on balance I think her cackling will harden support for Bernie and get people to pay attention to him. Besides how many things has this witch done right in so long?

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11 users have voted.
orlbucfan's picture

@Wally @Wally @Wally If it smells/sounds as bad as $hrill, Bernie will win this by a tsunami of a turnout. Rec'd!!

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4 users have voted.

"Trump is on trial for abuse of power--the Davos elites should be in the dock too...."
---Robert Reich

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