Open Thread - The Mischief's of Faction

As a former Democrat who grew up under the political tutelage of my grand mother and my mother who were both FDR Democrat''s I no longer give a shit about the party. They were flaming liberals. My grandmothers dinning room had framed pictures of FDR's four freedoms and a portrait of Paul Robeson hanging on the wall. My grandmother was a self proclaimed socialist. My Dad used to say to my Mom 'Gretchen get off your liberal soapbox.' She took me and my grandmother to hear Eldritch Cleaver speak in the 60's. She loved Bobby Kennedy and worked for campaign here in Oregon. I did too it was my first foray into electoral Democratic politics.

So coming from this upbringing and being a radical liberal myself how did I get to the point where I flat out denounce the Democratic party and the party has no use for purist's far lefty's like me. I thought to myself today how did the Democratic party that's supposed to advocate Jeffersonian principles and FDR's New Deal get formed in the first place. So I took a timey whimey trip back to when it started.

The Democratic party as we know it was formed in 1828. Ironically the newly formed party's 1st president was Andrew Jackson. Jefferson said in 1824 of Jackson 'I feel much alarmed at the prospect of seeing General Jackson President. He is one of the most unfit men I know for such a place'.

From the online Encyclopedia Britannica
http://www.britannica.com/topic/Democratic-Party

The Democratic Party is the oldest political party in the United States and among the oldest political parties in the world. It traces its roots to 1792, when followers of Thomas Jefferson adopted the name Republican to emphasize their anti-monarchical views. The Republican Party, also known as the Jeffersonian Republicans, advocated a decentralized government with limited powers. The Federalists called Jefferson’s faction the Democratic-Republican Party in an attempt to identify it with the disorder spawned by the “radical democrats” of the French Revolution of 1789. After the Federalist John Adams was elected president in 1796, the Republican Party served as the country’s first opposition party, and in 1798 the Republicans adopted the derisive Democratic-Republican label as their official name.

During the 1820s new states entered the union, voting laws were relaxed, and several states passed legislation that provided for the direct election of presidential electors by voters (electors had previously been appointed by state legislatures). These changes split the Democratic-Republicans into factions, each of which nominated its own candidate in the presidential election of 1824..... Andrew Jackson won the most popular and electoral votes, but no candidate received the necessary majority in the electoral college. When the election went to the House of Representatives Clay—who had finished fourth and was thus eliminated from consideration—threw his support to Adams, who won the House vote and subsequently appointed Clay secretary of state. Jackson, whose strength lay in the South and West, referred to his followers simply as Democrats .Jackson defeated Adams in the 1828 presidential election.

Well no wonder this party sucks fer gods sake. I went back further to the beginnings of the early American political factions and partisan parties. I won't go into the Founder's factional brouhahas but I did run into an interesting tidbit that pertains to my topic... 'Federalist No. 10'. It is an essay written by James Madison for The Federalist.

Federalist No. 10 continues the discussion of the question broached in Hamilton's Federalist No. 9. Hamilton there addressed the destructive role of a faction in breaking apart the republic. The question Madison answers, then, is how to eliminate the negative effects of faction. He defines a faction as "a number of citizens, whether amounting to a minority or majority of the whole, who are united and actuated by some common impulse of passion, or of interest, adverse to the rights of other citizens, or to the permanent and aggregate interests of the community". He identifies the most serious source of faction to be the diversity of opinion in political life which leads to dispute over fundamental issues such as what regime or religion should be preferred.

However, he thinks that "the most common and durable source of factions has been the various and unequal distribution of property. Those who hold and those who are without property have ever formed distinct interests in society". He saw direct democracy as a danger to individual rights and advocated a representative democracy in order to protect what he viewed as individual liberty from majority rule, or from the effects of such inequality within society. He says, "... a pure democracy, by which I mean a society consisting of a small number of citizens, who assemble and administer the government in person, can admit of no cure for the mischief's of faction. A common passion or interest will, in almost every case, be felt by a majority of the whole; a communication and concert result from the form of government itself; and there is nothing to check the inducements to sacrifice the weaker party or an obnoxious individual.

So there you have it my musings on the sorry state of partisan politics at a time when it looks like were going to be treated to another Corrupt Bargain like the one that decided the election of 1824 and led to the formation of the Democratic party in 1828.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corrupt_Bargain

The "corrupt bargain" that placed Adams in the White House and Clay in the State Department launched a four-year campaign of revenge by the friends of Andrew Jackson. Claiming the people had been cheated of their choice, Jacksonians attacked the Adams administration at every turn as illegitimate and tainted by aristocracy and corruption.

Anybody but Old Hickory for Pres. with his crime against humanity the Trail of Tears and his expansionist war.

If your memory serves you well

And I just said good luck....

Share
up
0 users have voted.

Comments

My big influence was my Aunt Mary. She was a Suffragette. She was 17 years older then my mother and was more of a grandmother to me. I can remember watching the 1956 conventions on our little black and white TV while she was cleaning green beans to can. I was only 8 years old and I remember her explaining who a "favorite son" and who a "Dixiecrat" was. Those conventions was the talk of the neighborhood. TV was new then and people got to see all the hoopla that was a brokered conventions in those days. She loved Adlai Stevenson, the Democratic pick for President. She made sure when I was old enough to vote that I was registered as a Democrat.

I have been so disappointed with President Obama. I only voted for Bill Clinton once and regretted that. I don't want the Clintons any where near the White House again. I would feel that way even if Sanders had not jumped into the race. The only reason I stay registered as a Democrat is because I live in a closed primary state. I am still a New Deal Democrat but don't like the DNC anymore and have not since the 1990's.

up
0 users have voted.
whyvee's picture

"Hillary Clinton, Bernie Sanders tied among Democrats" says HRC "continues to struggle on issues of trustworthiness" with just 25% of Dems saying that she is an honest candidate (Bernie shows 64% as trustworthy and that he cared more about people like them). So the party of FDR has certainly turned in something ugly and disassociated from the average American.

up
0 users have voted.
mjsmeme's picture

being 8 years old and watching the Democratic convention on TV. I watched it with my maternal grandfather, who emigrated to American from Germany (after bribing his way out of Russian to escape being drafted into the army) with his wife and three small kids (a couple of years before most of their family members were incinerated). He was a union organizer, who along with my 5' tall grandmother, marched and protested for worker's rights. He eventually become president of the Jewish Bakers Union in PA., where he continued the fight until he retired in his 70's. My mom died when I was born and I was raised by my paternal grandmother (a Russian immigrant sent on her own at the age of 16 for the better life to be had here in the land of the free), whose respect and admiration for FDR and my union-organizer granddad, who 'worked for the people', was unbounded. I'm a New Deal Democrat and union girl all the way, and I will change my registration back to Independent right after NY goes for Bernie!!!

up
0 users have voted.
jiordan's picture

I was so glad NC was an open primary. I changed my registration to unaffiliated back in 2006 when the D party got the House and Nancy made sure everyone knew impeachment was off the table. I'd stopped relating to the party a LOT earlier than that, but that was what pushed me to disown them in the only way I could. I feel bad for those in states with closed primaries who have to switch to the Democratic party to vote for Bernie...

I mean, I would have switched party affiliation to vote for him had I needed to, but I would have really, REALLY resented it. And, of course, switched it back as fast as I possibly could.

Oh, and thank you for the fascinating history. I only knew the Jackson part of that story (and not even all of that)...kind of depressing, yet illuminating, to see how messed up politics has always been in this country.

up
0 users have voted.
snoopydawg's picture

the Bush abuses if we would elect them. I remember the anger at Pelosi when she said that impeachment was off the table. It was a WTF? moment. Wasn't that what you said you would do if we got you in power?
And the intelligence committee knew about the torture in Iraq long before Abu Gharib hit the main stream news. And they just spent $6 million suing the CIA to get the whole torture report and what have they done with it? Nothing. SO why the hell did they spend all that money not to do anything.

Great OT. Interesting history lesson. Thanks

up
0 users have voted.

Which AIPAC/MIC/pharma/bank bought politician are you going to vote for? Don’t be surprised when nothing changes.

riverlover's picture

And that is still the battle, I guess. The haves are frightened of the have-nots. Why could they not see beyond two parties? The British parliament was then much less powerful than the King.

up
0 users have voted.

Hey! my dear friends or soon-to-be's, JtC could use the donations to keep this site functioning for those of us who can still see the life preserver or flotsam in the water.

kharma's picture

I learn something every day. Thanks shaharazade

up
0 users have voted.

There is nothing which I dread so much as a division of the republic into two great parties.. This...is to be dreaded as the greatest political evil under our Constitution.--John Adams

kharma's picture

up
0 users have voted.

There is nothing which I dread so much as a division of the republic into two great parties.. This...is to be dreaded as the greatest political evil under our Constitution.--John Adams

Szaephod's picture

See my tag-line.

up
0 users have voted.

The spirit of party serves to enfeeble the Public Administration,
agitates with Jealousies and false alarms, and opens the door to corruption,
which finds access to the government itself through the channels of party passions.
George Washington

Phoebe Loosinhouse's picture

I'm started to see a gas ball starting to develop into a solid. If either Trump or Cruz is the Republican candidate, Hillary Clinton will be swept into office as a Republican protest vote. The first breadcrumb was thrown out by Joe Scarborough who seemed to be urging a vote for Hillary as a better Republican than either Cruz or Trump. Former Republican advisor Nicole Wallace agreed and said that would definitely be the case in the realm of foreign policy. The hurdle for most Republicans would be being able to hold their noses on the social issues which many wouldn't be able to do, but which the more socially liberal Republicans would (paraphrase).

Why is that idgit Chris Matthews promoting Kasich as a Hillary Vice-President? Because he sees the Centrist Democrat/Moderate Republican Venn diagram intersection becoming larger and larger.

So I'm starting to feel a lot more comfortable in witholding a vote for Hillary if it will be replaced by her more rightful Constituency - a Republican.

It is finally, truly the moment in history for Liberal/Populist/99%/Labor/FDR Democrats to schism.

up
0 users have voted.

" “Human kindness has never weakened the stamina or softened the fiber of a free people. A nation does not have to be cruel to be tough.” FDR "

stevej's picture

with this assessment. The Neocons want Hillary and they will smooth her way to acceptance by the rest of the GOP. Social issues mean nothing to her unless they advance her own career or agenda in some way and that will be an easy sell to the GOP and their voters. In fact it is much easier to sell the idea she doesn't give care than the one that says she does. Wonder if her supporters ever wonder about that.

My only slight disagreement is re Matthews - you may be giving him too much credit. His thinking doesn't go any deeper than bipartisanship always 100% good.

up
0 users have voted.

“To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize.” -Voltaire

whyvee's picture

side than Trump. Now HRC can go full on with the neo-con agenda knowing that she will get enough of the Repubs that do not, and never did, give a damn about the wedge social issues. All she needs to do now is get rid of Bernie.

up
0 users have voted.
mjsmeme's picture

and other in-crowd events that he will be attending when his wife gets elected to office.

up
0 users have voted.
shaharazade's picture

and Clinton. I think they mean a lot to her and not in a good way. The Clinton's have reek havoc on our social issues which are tied to economic issues among other things. They stir the culture war pot to divide and conquer. She keeps saying things like even if we fix income disparity and have free public education their will still be racism and sexism. Well duh. What she advocates and implements however does nothing but perpetuate the injustices via policy, legislation and agenda. Welfare queens, super predators, between a man and a woman, flag burners, outsourcing, privatizing including prisons, she's not much better domestically then she is globally. I think her supporters do not wonder because they have disconnected social issues from policy and agenda. They also seem to suffering from a bad case of Stockholm Syndrome. To me she's both a neocon and a neoliberal. Both of these world views seem to be tied to each other.

up
0 users have voted.

how a good chunk of the neocons are going for Hillary. Are we going to even make it to 2020? Anybody who has been paying attention has a serious worry about that. The people who are idiotically provoking Russia and China need to be disqualified from holding office. Unfortunately most of the country doesn't even realize what's going on, I'm afraid, so they're not going to disqualify them. I'm stunned that they're running after the potential Trump fascism and don't see the fascism that's already firmly implanted in our "foreign policy establishment". And that doesn't even get into the mass of it already embedded in the financial establishment, domestic homeland security, etc.

up
0 users have voted.
Szaephod's picture

The "New Deal Party." That is, if we're going to be stuck with parties. Sigh.

up
0 users have voted.

The spirit of party serves to enfeeble the Public Administration,
agitates with Jealousies and false alarms, and opens the door to corruption,
which finds access to the government itself through the channels of party passions.
George Washington

Martha Pearce-Smith's picture

but if no parties...what then? What is the alternative to parties?

up
0 users have voted.

Please help the Resilience Resource Library grow by adding your links.

First Nations News

thrownstone's picture

the two parties became one and all the people set aside dissent. The travail and hard labour of the Great Experiment, the blood and sweat of six generations, the sacrifice of millions of humans, at long last produced The Great Corporation which unified the people in their calling to wage The War Against Terror. The brave populace fought now not against earthly powers, not against the followers of evil, but against a word, an idea, a concept: they joined together under the Great Father Corporation to battle the Idea of terrorism in the war without end. Amen.

up
0 users have voted.

“Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities.” Voltaire

that the R party is going to either split or reform itself. I don't see the D party reforming at all. They will, as usual, just work on doing a better job of convincing the populace that they are the party of the people. This will require much more propaganda & spin, even less transparency, and more of the ramping up identity politics while throwing little bones to the people, as needed. In other words, more of the same but with better manipulation. This is assuming Hillary gets the nom. They may decide another war is a good way to unite people against an external enemy. This is, as we all know, a classic strategy used for centuries. It is, of course, getting trickier to build a big enemy to unite against and that is, without going into detail, one of the things that terrifies me.

up
0 users have voted.
Martha Pearce-Smith's picture

Beneath this mask there is an idea... and ideas are bulletproof.”

V_0.jpg
up
0 users have voted.

Please help the Resilience Resource Library grow by adding your links.

First Nations News

shaharazade's picture

and your images. Did you participate in OWS? Don't mean to be nosy, I was just curious. Direct democracy without political and just the populist vote would seem to me to be too chaotic and would lead according to Adams to people not voting for the common good. This is why they called the beginning party the Democratic Republicans.

up
0 users have voted.
Martha Pearce-Smith's picture

Thank you! I love your writing...you are so smart!

Wish I could have been part of OWS. I am older now, living in Canada on a fixed income. I will never be able to afford to come home again. But I have grandchildren there and want a better country for them. Their parents won't do anything about it...(long story), so I do what I can from here.

I have mentioned elsewhere that I think there comes a point when a population gets too big to govern by any means. When it reaches the point where we have to have others represent our interests and we have to give them our proxy, it is, IMO, too big.

up
0 users have voted.

Please help the Resilience Resource Library grow by adding your links.

First Nations News

shaharazade's picture

and this is not progress. If the Democratic party does split it might be a good thing. After reading last night about all American the factions and party's it occurred to me that I want to join the Democratic Republican party of the Jefferson, Adams and Monroe variety. People are afraid of change and the keepers of the status quo duopoly play on this fear. As it stands now the Democrat's might have just cried scary wolf one too may times. A schism would be a good thing imo. Politics are not static. This will be an interesting convention, i hope.

up
0 users have voted.

had only two pictures on his wall: Jesus and FDR. His favorite thing to say was,"Those are my two favorite people. Don't press me on which one I like best."

I, like you, will be ending probably five generations of Democrats soon, when I declare myself an Independent. It's really sad, but I hope it brings new opportunities and hope for all of us to band together for something better.

Thanks for your excellent piece,
gbb

up
0 users have voted.

Must have missed your landing.

up
0 users have voted.

"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon

I'm moving slow through here. Thanks much, and always good to see you!

up
0 users have voted.
OLinda's picture

up
0 users have voted.

Sorry for the delayed reply. I'm fumbling around here, but hopefully I'll get the hang of it soon!

up
0 users have voted.
mhagle's picture

I read, rec'd, and really have enjoyed your stuff the past few months!!

Thank you!

up
0 users have voted.

Marilyn

"Make dirt, not war." eyo

Very kind. Hope to see you around here!

up
0 users have voted.
stevej's picture

up
0 users have voted.

“To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize.” -Voltaire

gulfgal98's picture

Unlike so many of you here, I grew up in an Eisenhower Republican family so my journey to here was long and on my own. Believe it or not, it was my mainstream Protestant church upbringing that has made me so liberal. As a child, I took the teachings of Jesus to heart. It has been a long time since I have been involved in the church, but putting people first is the lesson I took from Sunday school. As I have gotten older, I have become more and more radicalized. The myth of the American dream and self sufficiency along with the capitalistic greed is is just that. We are all in this together and we must care for each other.

up
0 users have voted.

Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?

“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy

OLinda's picture

I'm wondering if everyone knows this is an open thread. It is, isn't it? Now I'm not even sure. Isn't it the morning Open Thread? And, maybe we should spell out Open Thread in the title. What do you think? Thank you.

up
0 users have voted.
Martha Pearce-Smith's picture

up
0 users have voted.

Please help the Resilience Resource Library grow by adding your links.

First Nations News

shaharazade's picture

My fault I didn't spell it out in the title. I agree as it's really hard in the fast moving traffic to find it. I'll see if i can edit the title. This week it took me till about 2 in the afternoon to find the OT. I'm glad you did find it Olinda.

up
0 users have voted.
TheOtherMaven's picture

but can we at least keep the timetable in order? In 1824, even in 1828, the Trail of Tears was still in the future - nobody really thought Jackson could or would do it. And at that it took "Jackson's third term" (ascended Vice-President Martin Van Buren) to get it fully implemented.

Van Buren usually skates because very few people realize he bears at least as much responsibility for the atrocities as Jackson. He could have said, "There's been a change of plans, we're not going to do this". He could have called for a commission to study the possible consequences and kicked the can down the road till the next administration. He could have decided that he would obey the Supreme Court's injunction. He could have done a lot of things. He did nothing, sat back and Let It Happen On Purpose. And Van Buren didn't even have the excuse of ever having been a frontiersman or an "Indian fighter" - he was from the Hudson Valley, where the only "Indians" were in Fenimore Cooper's novels.

up
0 users have voted.

There is no justice. There can be no peace.

detroitmechworks's picture

we have currently, who had NO CHOICE but to continue and expand the wars in the middle east.

up
0 users have voted.

I do not pretend I know what I do not know.

shaharazade's picture

I was just riffing with the captions for the video's as I was coming at the Jacksonian era from the other side of history. So it 's out of time. I was thinking of the Clintons now and then.

up
0 users have voted.
pfiore8's picture

but i did register Dem in PA to vote in the primaries for sanders.

up
0 users have voted.

“There are moments which are not calculable, and cannot be assessed in words; they live on in the solution of memory… ”
― Lawrence Durrell, "Justine"

NCTim's picture

Western PA UMW, USW, Teachers Democratic education

up
0 users have voted.

The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. If you try it, you will be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself. - Friedrich Nietzsche -

triv33's picture

That man is running ads boasting of how he supported the police during the riots. Um....we didn't have riots. Not in PA, he doesn't have a damn thing to brag about here. He has to borrow from neighboring states. We had some demonstrations, but him? I don't remember Mr Club For Growth being involved in any way.

up
0 users have voted.

I shave my legs with Occam's Razor~

Martha Pearce-Smith's picture

up
0 users have voted.

Please help the Resilience Resource Library grow by adding your links.

First Nations News

ppnortney's picture

was excellent. She said it so well.

up
0 users have voted.

The smaller the mind the greater the conceit. --Aesop

Martha Pearce-Smith's picture

I have always had trouble with the platitudes layered on when an awful person dies...

up
0 users have voted.

Please help the Resilience Resource Library grow by adding your links.

First Nations News

shaharazade's picture

or Margret Thatcher. The hypocrisy surrounding nasty evil, public figures with power who die never ceases to amaze me. Speaking of timey whimey lately the world seems to be going all Victorian with all the trappings of Empire and pomp and circumstances. Steam punk fashion, art and style that glorifies the Victorian Empire's weirdness.

up
0 users have voted.
Martha Pearce-Smith's picture

And let us not forget... Nancy Reagan....

up
0 users have voted.

Please help the Resilience Resource Library grow by adding your links.

First Nations News

hecate's picture

threw the House vote to Adams because Adams promised Clay he would make him Secretary of State. Clay wanted to be the president (he had been one of the four presidential candidates in 1824, together with Adams, Jackson, and William Crawford), and he simple-mindedly observed that the previous presidents had served as Secretary of State, so he figured that if he assumed that position, he would get to be the president too!

In 1824, basically nobody voted:

In spite of the fact that this was the first time the people would choose between men whom they themselves had nominated instead of those thrust upon them by the party machine, less than five per cent voted. The politicians had been frightened by the possibility of a "revolutionary rising of the masses," but the masses forgot to rise, casting less than four hundred thousand votes, giving no one man a majority.

From 1824 to 1828 the federal government was pretty much in shutdown mode, as many in the legislative branch considered the executive branch illegitimate.

Jackson was a murderous, ignorant pig. Like most populists (see Thomas Watson, William Jennings Bryan, George Wallace, The Hairball, etc.) he cared nothing for anyone but his fellow white people; everyone else should be killed, removed, enslaved, or could just go to hell.

In his brutal military campaigns against Indians, Andrew Jackson recommended that troops systematically kill Indian women and children after massacres in order to complete the extermination. The Creeks lost 23 million acres of land in southern Georgia and central Alabama, paving the way for cotton plantation slavery. His frontier warfare and subsequent "negotiations" opened up much of the southeast U.S. to settler colonialism.

As a major general in 1818, Jackson invaded Spanish Florida chasing fugitive slaves who had escaped with the intent of returning them to their "owners," and sparked the First Seminole War. During the conflict, Jackson captured two British men, Alexander George Arbuthnot and Robert C. Ambrister, who were living among the Seminoles. The Seminoles had resisted Jackson's invasion of their land. One of the men had written about his support for the Seminoles' land and treaty rights in letters found on a boat. Jackson used the "evidence" to accuse the men of "inciting" the Seminoles to "savage warfare" against the U.S. He convened a "special court martial" tribunal then had the men executed.

In 1830, a year after he became president, Jackson signed a law that he had proposed—the Indian Removal Act—which legalized ethnic cleansing. Within seven years 46,000 indigenous people were removed from their homelands east of the Mississippi. Their removal gave 25 million acres of land to white settlement and to slavery.

Slavery was the source of Andrew Jackson's wealth.

The Hermitage was a 1,000 acre, self-sustaining plantation that relied completely on the labor of enslaved African American men, women, and children. They performed the hard labor that produced The Hermitage's cash crop, cotton. The more land Andrew Jackson accrued, the more slaves he procured to work it. Thus, the Jackson family's survival was made possible by the profit garnered from the crops worked by the enslaved on a daily basis.

up
0 users have voted.
shaharazade's picture

Thanks Hecate for delving into what this 1st Democratic present was about. In my People's Almanac they had quotes about and by each president.
Quote from Jackson
"I have only 2 regrets: That I have not shot Henry Clay or hanged John C Calhoun. "

up
0 users have voted.
hecate's picture

Clay ran to be the president three times: in 1824 as a Democratic-Republican, in 1832 as a Democrat, and in 1844 as a Whig. He was each time the Loser. Like Jackson, he believed black people to be a form of monkey, with whom white people should have no congress: "The God of Nature, by the differences of color and physical constitution, has decreed against it." One of his slaves sued in court for her freedom, which caused Clay to experience an Outrage.

Calhoun was a lunatic yeehaw who believed states could and should violate any federal law of decree, especially ones that might indicate that black people were humans; slavery, to him, since he never had to be a slave, was "a postive good."

He also flogged a non-scandal involving the allegedly wayward penis of Secretary of War John Eaton; the resulting mess caused Jackson to get rid of most of his cabinet. Martin Van Buren sided with Jackson in this penis imbroglio; van Buren himself, according to Gore Vidal, was the fruit of the penis of Aaron Burr, who shot and killed in a duel Alexander Hamilton, after the latter snickered it around that Burr was known to insert his penis into his own daughter.

Someone someday should write some book with a title like The Penis In American Political History.

During the Civil War Calhoun's dead body was dug up and toted to and fro because his slavery-loving compatriots believed federal troops might abuse it, as Calhoun and his white-hot Negro-hating, detestable slavery worshipping, and unsane "states rights" hallucinating, were regarded as prime movers in that conflict.

up
0 users have voted.
mimi's picture

please put the words Open Thread in your title, the new people here don't get it that our Open Threads are meaty and of such high standards that they don't understand that our Open Threads here are still the place to post their own news dumps or thoughts of the day nevertheless and are also open to chatter. Yeah, heh, really a very OPEN place we have here. Thanks, JtC and Joe.

Here are my own recommendations for today to listen to.

The Bernie Sanders interview on The Young Turks is really very good. I recommend to listen to it to the end for those who are interested to help Sanders to win the nomination and be sure they know why they want to do that. I liked what Sanders said about the media. It was point on. The interview is also on Liepar Destin's BNR from today. I so much wished his BNR could be cross-posted here.
[video:https://youtu.be/ggFitmOTSok]

The other interviews I would recommend to listen to are those of Glenn Greenwald on today's Democracy Now. I really am always amazed with what kind of clarity Glenn can express complex issues. He is very gifted.

Glenn Greenwald: Cruz, Trump, Clinton "Playing into the Hands" of ISIL After Brussels Bombings
MARCH 24, 2016
(transcripts on the site already available) and
Glenn Greenwald: Hillary Clinton Has Embraced Some of the Most Brutal Dictators in the World
MARCH 24, 2016

I must say that Hillary's speech at AIPAC really gave me the rest. Can never support her anymore. I guess you all heard enough of that speech already.

Have stuff to do, but try to come back later to read calmly through your essay. I know I have some awesome books in my boxes (pointed to years ago by MB) about the history of the Democratic Party. Pray for me. I want to read them one day... Smile

up
0 users have voted.
shaharazade's picture

Hope you all have a great day. It's fun coming here first thing in my morning. I haven't had coffee yet and usually my fingers after all these years go right to my toolbar and click Daily Kos but not today. Yippee!

California here we come. I'm a native Californian and I sure hope that my home state goes for Bernie.

Dreaming...

Memories....

one more memory...

up
0 users have voted.
orlbucfan's picture

Andrew Jackson was among the very first examples. BTW, sex has no monopoly on whether one is a piece of homo sapiens trash or not! Very good Open Thread and comments!! Tipped and Recommended!!

up
0 users have voted.

Inner and Outer Space: the Final Frontiers.

triv33's picture

I grew up on stories of how my Grandpop got a job overseeing the new sewer lines going down and saved our entire family from the great depression, FDR was fucking saint in our house, and the Democrats were the party of the common man, right up until Jimmy Carter. Then we had the rug pulled out from under us, we rank and file, didn't we? It seems that some still don't know or want to. Or don't care. Either way. Still a registered Dem in closed primary PA, but not in my heart or head.

up
0 users have voted.

I shave my legs with Occam's Razor~

Martha Pearce-Smith's picture

My dad worked for the WPA and the CCC during the Depression... it saved his family too. Saved a lot of families...

up
0 users have voted.

Please help the Resilience Resource Library grow by adding your links.

First Nations News

Damned good to see you. I'm not even a far lefter and I've had it too with this party. It took a long time to give up on it because it doesn't feel good at all but truly I don't think it will change until it's abandoned and even then it might not, depending on if and how the abandonment happens. If a new party is seriously formed, the old D party could fade away or become smaller. It really looks like there are four major parties in this country when you examine this primary. No doubt more but then you get into splintering, etc. And frankly, I really wonder what would happen if someone did a study on the big common ground issues in this country among everyone, not just registered Ds Rs, and Is and how many people could gravitate to a common sense, common ground kind of party that really represented the people.

up
0 users have voted.
shaharazade's picture

What's Happening? There are a lot of us here from the What's Happening page. I may be a far lefter but I am a pragmatic one. I joined and became a active member of the Multnomah county Democratic party in 2001. I thought it was time for all the factions in the Dem. party and the lefty's to form a coalition to fight the RW coup. Turns out it was a by-partisan coup. I was recruited by a Green turned Dem. who felt the same way.

And frankly, I really wonder what would happen if someone did a study on the big common ground issues in this country among everyone, not just registered Ds Rs, and Is and how many people could gravitate to a common sense, common ground kind of party that really represented the people.

I agree 99% with this. It seems the 'owners of the place' have done a great job at divide and conquer. With Independents at 43% and rising it threatens the duopoly of the Donkey and Elephant puppets. Bernie message seems to have inspired many of the I's to vote. I think part of the reason for the mess in AZ was the fact that of Indies cared enough to register as Dems. to get a decent choice in the general. We joined WPF in 2011 after being lifetime Dems. now were Dems again for the primary. Party loyalty seem useless when the party's offer nothing but lesser evils that are in reality variations on the same evil.

The Clinton campaign is preaching party unity to slay the fearful Hairball with his dreaded brown shirt teabagging followers. At this point I doubt that people are going to come together and unify with Clinton and co. Reading about the early political party's and the evolution's of the the D's and R's parties opened my eyes as electoral politics are not static and seem to change and morph with the times despite the ruling elites scorn of democracy. The common good is a populist strain that goes way back as does representation. Both of these basic tenets are gone from our democratic republic. Let's get them back.

up
0 users have voted.