Monday Open Thread: March 11 is Johnny Appleseed Day in the United States

Submitted by enhydra lutris on Mon, 03/11/2019 - 4:00am

March 11 is the 74th day of the Gregorian Calendar year
Setting Orange, Chaos 70, 3185 YOLD (discordian)
And let us not forget 13.0.6.5.11 by the Mayan Long Count

Today we celebrate the life of a guy who spread apples far and wide back in the early days of the white man's westward conquest of the land that became the US. He established nurseries for said apples and arranged for them to be tended and cared for. It is alleged that he also planted dogfennel during his travels, and for this he is sometimes excoriated because it is perceived to be a noxious invasive weed. The ironic truth is that it is native to the eastern and south-cenral US, while the apple is not native to the US at all. While probably not particularly invasive, it is a non-native species, having its origins in asia. Does this make him an ecoterrorist of some sort, spreading this alien species far and wide? I would say that the question is one for history to decide, but it appears that the decision has been made, and he gets a pass.

Twenty years of schooling and they put you on the day shift, look out kid, ...

-
On this day in history it was a seriously ugly day for indigenous peoples in the Americas:

1641 – Guaraní people living in reservations defeated Portuguese colonist brigands and slavers at the Battle of Mbororé
1824 – The United States Department of War creates the Bureau of Indian Affairs. You don't say..
1851 – The first performance of Giuseppe Verdi's Rigoletto

1941 – President Franklin D. Roosevelt signed the Lend-Lease Act into law
1945 – The Empire of Vietnam, a Japanese puppet state, was established with Bao Ðai as its ruler. Uh huh.
1990 – Patricio Aylwin was sworn in as the first democratically elected President of Chile since the US had Allende ovethrown and assassinated in 1973. The US political machine wept.
2006 – Michelle Bachelet was inaugurated as first female president of Chile.
2010 – Economist and businessman Sebastián Piñera was sworn in as President of Chile,
2012 – A U.S. soldier killed 16 civilians in Afghanistan and got busted for it. Wierder yet, he has not yet been pardoned for it even though he has served waaay more prison time than Lieutenant Calley did. RHIP?.

Born this day in:

1876 – Carl Ruggles, pianist and composer
1885 – Malcolm Campbell, car and boat racer, journalist
1926 – Ralph Abernathy, civil rights leader and activist, mnister
1945 – Harvey Mandel, guitarist
1947 – Mark Stein, singer, songwriter, and keyboard player
1950 – Bobby McFerrin, singer, songwriter, producer, and conductor
1952 – Douglas Adams, author and playwright

Died this day in:

1955 – Alexander Fleming, biologist, pharmacologist, and botanist,
1970 – Erle Stanley Gardner, lawyer and author
1971 – Philo Farnsworth, inventor
1971 – Whitney Young, civil rights activist
1986 – Sonny Terry, singer and harmonica player
2007 – Betty Hutton, actress and singer
2015 – Jimmy Greenspoon, singer, songwriter, and keyboards player

Holidays, Holy Days, Festivals, Feast Days, Days of Recognition, and such:

Johnny Appleseed Day (United States)

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Music goes here, iirc, well,

Carl Ruggles

Harvey Mandel

Mark Stein

Bobby McFerrin

Sonny Terru

Betty Hutton

Jimmy Greenspoon

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Harvey Mandel played with Charley Musselwhite, Canned Heat, the Stones (barely), various ad hoc jams at the Matrix, and many others.

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Image is a photo of an apple by Bikram singh

It's an open thread, so do your thing

Tags:

Open Thread

the BIA

Giuseppe Verdi

Ralph Abernathy

Vote

Comments

Submitted by lotlizard on Mon, 03/11/2019 - 5:13am

Triple disaster — earthquake, tsunami, nuclear plant meltdown —

strikes Japan, eight years ago today.

Submitted by enhydra lutris on Mon, 03/11/2019 - 9:18am

Good morning lotl. Eight years later and the disaster is still

@lotlizard
slowly unfolding. Radiation isn't forever, but it sure does last a while. Nonetheless. many still tout some form of "all of the above" or assert that nukes must be part of the cessation of carbon combustion. Homo idota.

—

That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

Submitted by Centaurea on Mon, 03/11/2019 - 6:22am

Bobby McFerrin

playing the audience. Joy joy joy.

P.S. I'm glad Johnny brought us the apples.

—

"Don't go back to sleep ... Don't go back to sleep ... Don't go back to sleep."
~Rumi

"If you want revolution, be it."
~Caitlin Johnstone

Submitted by jbob on Mon, 03/11/2019 - 5:47am

I mixed the on-stage monitors for Wednesday Night Jazz

@Centaurea One summer in the 1980's at the Hollywood Bowl. Bobby McFerrin was perhaps the best performer to play on that stage during the season I worked.

Submitted by Centaurea on Mon, 03/11/2019 - 7:35am

His entire being is his instrument

@jbob and he brings out the same ability in his fellow human beings.

—

"Don't go back to sleep ... Don't go back to sleep ... Don't go back to sleep."
~Rumi

"If you want revolution, be it."
~Caitlin Johnstone

Submitted by enhydra lutris on Mon, 03/11/2019 - 9:26am

Good morning jbob, thanks for reading.

@jbob

—

That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

Submitted by janis b on Mon, 03/11/2019 - 6:00am

...

@Centaurea

[video:https://youtu.be/_o2RS8WfcbY]

Submitted by enhydra lutris on Mon, 03/11/2019 - 9:29am

Gooc morning janis, thanks for dropping in. Thanks for the

@janis b
music too.

—

That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

Submitted by enhydra lutris on Mon, 03/11/2019 - 9:26am

Good morning Centaurea . Very cool clip. Yeah, we do a lot

@Centaurea
of apples and cook with them as well. We have a granny smith in the yard that was a house warming gift, sickly little think from a dying nursery when we got it, but has produced a glut of apples almost every year since.

—

That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

Submitted by lotlizard on Mon, 03/11/2019 - 7:15am

Picked out of yesterday’s “Links” post at Naked Capitalism:

YouTube terminates Middle East Observer after almost 10 years online

Making the world safe for oligopoly

Tax collectors chase rich New Yorkers moving to low-tax states. Auditors inspect cell records, even your dog’s vet bills
Boo hoo. Those poor, poor rich folks.

https://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2019/03/links-3-10-19.html

A lot of great info turns up in the comment sections at Naked Capitalism as well. Blog proprietors Yves Smith and Lambert Strether come down like a ton of bricks on any non-constructive commenter behavior.

Submitted by Lookout on Mon, 03/11/2019 - 7:42am

Good morning el and c99

The apple you pictured isn't the type Johnny planted (nor or the ones featured in the video below).

Seed tree apples, such as the ones Johnny Appleseed planted, were acidic with high tannin content and good for little but making hard cider. They were called “spitters,” because after one bite, you spit it out. A 176-year-old tree in Nova, Ohio, is thought to be the last known tree to be planted by Johnny Appleseed himself.

Hard cider was a favorite of William Henry Harrison, the former governor of the Indiana Territory. During his 1840 presidential campaign, he used the "log cabin and hard cider" platform to convince voters of his “everyman” status.

During pioneer days, water and milk were typically unsanitary. Cider was the most trusted beverage, despite the haphazard, primitive method in which it was made. Children drank it and it was on tap alongside whiskey and rum at the local taverns. Cider's popularity diminished in the 1840s, as German immigrants brought clean, almost hygienic beer-making techniques to America.

https://www.indystar.com/story/news/history/retroindy/2018/10/25/truth-j...

Now, this doesn’t mean there aren’t a few kernels of truth in the Johnny Appleseed tales. Chapman did appear to be practically everywhere planting nurseries. As a savvy business man, he would travel ahead of the general population pushing westward, planting nursery after nursery to keep the supply of apple trees for making cider flowing as people trickled in and then became established populations. Many of the orchards created with trees from the nurseries he planted continued to fuel cider brewing well up until the Prohibition era, where they were destroyed by die-hard temperance advocates. This is also the point where there was a significant shift in American culture away from hard cider and towards the idea that apples were a healthy—an apple a day keeps the doctor away—fruit and not, as they had been for centuries, a source of alcoholic drinks.

https://www.howtogeek.com/trivia/johnny-appleseeds-goal-in-planting-appl...

So happy johnny appleseed day! Too bad I'm out of apple brandy...my personal favorite homemade alcohol. (hard cider is about 8%, Brandy would be 40+%)

Kinda a cute kid's song about apple varieties (2 min)
[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n3GjJhMS1gk]

—

“Until justice rolls down like water and righteousness like a mighty stream.”

Submitted by enhydra lutris on Mon, 03/11/2019 - 9:35am

Good morning Lookout. Cider, beer, and wine, different

@Lookout
solutions the world over to sanitation issues. Very likely sake too. That's why German wines
were low alcohol, so they could drink them all day long and still get home.

The apple you pictured isn't the type Johnny planted (nor or the ones featured in the video below). Seed tree apples, such as the ones Johnny Appleseed planted, were acidic with high tannin content and good for little but making hard cider. They were called “spitters,” because after one bite, you spit it out. A 176-year-old tree in Nova, Ohio, is thought to be the last known tree to be planted by Johnny Appleseed himself. Hard cider was a favorite of William Henry Harrison, the former governor of the Indiana Territory. During his 1840 presidential campaign, he used the "log cabin and hard cider" platform to convince voters of his “everyman” status. During pioneer days, water and milk were typically unsanitary. Cider was the most trusted beverage, despite the haphazard, primitive method in which it was made. Children drank it and it was on tap alongside whiskey and rum at the local taverns. Cider's popularity diminished in the 1840s, as German immigrants brought clean, almost hygienic beer-making techniques to America. https://www.indystar.com/story/news/history/retroindy/2018/10/25/truth-j... Now, this doesn’t mean there aren’t a few kernels of truth in the Johnny Appleseed tales. Chapman did appear to be practically everywhere planting nurseries. As a savvy business man, he would travel ahead of the general population pushing westward, planting nursery after nursery to keep the supply of apple trees for making cider flowing as people trickled in and then became established populations. Many of the orchards created with trees from the nurseries he planted continued to fuel cider brewing well up until the Prohibition era, where they were destroyed by die-hard temperance advocates. This is also the point where there was a significant shift in American culture away from hard cider and towards the idea that apples were a healthy—an apple a day keeps the doctor away—fruit and not, as they had been for centuries, a source of alcoholic drinks. https://www.howtogeek.com/trivia/johnny-appleseeds-goal-in-planting-appl... So happy johnny appleseed day! Too bad I'm out of apple brandy...my personal favorite homemade alcohol. (hard cider is about 8%, Brandy would be 40+%) Kinda a cute kid's song about apple varieties (2 min) [video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n3GjJhMS1gk]

—

That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

Submitted by Lily O Lady on Mon, 03/11/2019 - 1:25pm

I suspect that hot tea consumption was another way to

@enhydra lutris

ensure that dangerous microbes died when water was boiled for tea preparation.

—

"The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power. Now do you begin to understand me?" ~Orwell, "1984"

Submitted by QMS on Mon, 03/11/2019 - 8:02am

Don't let it upset your apple cart

Morning all --

In other news...

US lost another ally as Turkey and Russia join forces to patrol Syria...

Trump's budget proposal for fiscal 2020 seeks to cut the office of energy efficiency and renewable energy by 70%.

death by a thousand cuts

Submitted by enhydra lutris on Mon, 03/11/2019 - 9:38am

Good morning, QMS, Tsk, tsk, tsk, now ain't that a shame.

@QMS
I suppose that this is technically news, though it definitely seemed to have been in the crds for a while now. Another insult to the imperium, I wonder what's next.

—

That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

Submitted by lotlizard on Mon, 03/11/2019 - 8:19am

Having moved to Dresden, I don’t live in Hesse any more, but

one of the Frankfurt am Main area’s regional specialties is Ebbelwoi — Hesse dialect for Apfelwein) — apple wine.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apfelwein

Edited to add:
Accounts of what it was like to work in the Obama White House? That overcorrecting swing of the pendulum in the Trumpian direction seems less surprising, after reading about this crop of namby-pambies.

https://www.currentaffairs.org/2019/03/the-obama-boys

Submitted by enhydra lutris on Mon, 03/11/2019 - 9:46am

Ebbelwoi, eh? Between a cider and a hard thing. My tendency

@lotlizard
woould be to go straight to the Calvados, but a chacun son gout.

Interesting non-news about Obama, the Obama White House and the Obama years. Maybe a bit broader slice of the public will, as a result, start to catch on a little, but I'm not holding my breath on that.

—

That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

Submitted by smiley7 on Mon, 03/11/2019 - 8:14am

Grays, blues, white and a strip of magenta color this morning's

windowpanes; it's unusually warm, too. Good day, el.

Damn government agents cut down most of Johnny's orchards during prohibition.

Used to make hard cider; but stopped after an episode one fall when i forget to relieve the pressure from the glass gallon jars; having to pick glass shards from everything and replace the missing closet lover doors left an impression.

Apple sadness around these mountains, the small orchards producing great old varieties haven't competed with the giants supplying grocery stores and have gone by the wayside. And those few remaining have to charge a fortune for their apples, costing me out.

As i've written in OT's before, i've long enjoyed wanderings to find old isolated and abandoned trees along with the occasional wild tree. Usually after it warms and blossoms come, i drive and trek around to see this year's promise.

Praises to Chapman! I've read American Indians appreciated his spirit and he is known to have been a generous man.

Picking kids up from school this week for a young friend; like old times.

Thanks for today's OT and music and "Don't worry, be happy."

Submitted by enhydra lutris on Mon, 03/11/2019 - 9:48am

Good morning smiley. It's too early in the day to play

@smiley7
chauffeur blues for ya, so I'll just say good luck and enjoy.

—

That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

Submitted by randtntx on Mon, 03/11/2019 - 9:30am

The "Golden years of apple growing"

in the U.S. is considered to be the late 19th century.

when scores of apple and other fruit trees were planted in farmstead and kitchen orchards. Their ability to ''keep'' all winter in cold cellars, produce flavorful ciders, and their versatility for cooking and baking made apples a staple in American homes. This period of American horticultural history was preceded by an era of fruit diversification that lasted into the early nineteenth century.

In 1905 there was a popular manual called The Nomenclature of the Apple by W. H. Ragan which listed; "6,654 unique apple varieties referenced in U.S. literature between the years 1804 and 1904". Because of our agricultural practices we have reduced the variety of apples on the market to " a mere 11 apple varieties account for more than 90% of the apples sold in the United States, with 'Red Delicious' making up 41% of this figure."

The above is from an article in Science Daily originally published in American Society for Horticultural Science. According to this article, apple trees can live to be 150 years old and "in many areas, it is still possible to find trees of ''heirloom'' cultivars once abundant at the beginning of the 20th century."
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/11/091104111731.htm

Submitted by enhydra lutris on Mon, 03/11/2019 - 9:53am

Good morning randtntx . What is it with Red Delicious? Are

@randtntx
they really all that much cheaper. Mushy, mealy, tasteless and don't keep. Wht is their point and why don't varieties like Gala simply drive them out of the market. Says something about the alleged perfection of the market process.

Thanks for reading.

—

That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

Submitted by randtntx on Mon, 03/11/2019 - 10:12am

Yup

@enhydra lutris I agree, those supposedly delicious ones are not. Mushy is not my ideal apple. The best apples I ever had were from a farmers market in Western Massachusetts. They were pricey but worth it.

According to that Science Daily article, many of these historic apple orchards are located in New Mexico, Utah, and Arizona. These are not locations that I associate with apple growing, so it's interesting to me. I wonder how those taste.

Submitted by smiley7 on Mon, 03/11/2019 - 10:15am

Agreed, give me a Winesap anyday and randtntx one can

@enhydra lutris
apparently purchase seeds from the last known Johnny Appleseed's tree:

"Small Ohio Towns: Johnny Appleseed tree is the pride of Savannah https://www.cleveland.com/metro/2018/05/tiny_towns_ohio_last_living_jo.html
[...]
"Want to buy an actual seedling from the last apple tree planted by Johnny Appleseed in Savannah? Contact the Johnny Appleseed Museum and Education Center at 937-772-9297."

Submitted by randtntx on Mon, 03/11/2019 - 10:25am

Wow

@smiley7 what fun. I think I'll leave the raising of those precious little saplings to someone with a better track record than mine. They should be adopted by someone with experience and knowledge. I would enjoy seeing them though.

Submitted by Azazello on Mon, 03/11/2019 - 10:29am

Mornin' e.l.

Your favorite desert is in bloom: USA Today
Maslenitsa in St.Petersburg:
[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rtheqBmp0o8 width:500 height:300]

—

We wanted decent healthcare, a living wage and free college.
The Democrats gave us Biden and war instead.

Submitted by enhydra lutris on Mon, 03/11/2019 - 12:12pm

Good morning, Az. Thanks for dropping by and thanks for

@Azazello
the news on ABDSP. There was an article about it in yesterday's Chron. We cross the Tehachipis, run out 58, pick up 247 and run down through Johnson Valley, Yucca Valley and 62 through Big Morongo Canyon; then 10 to 111/86 along the west side of Salton Sea to The State Park Campground at Palm Canyon on the 24th. That's 5 hrs over the road, so 6 or 7 with stopping for gas, lunch and gawking, leaving little time to get out and about until the 25th. I just hope that it isn't bloomed out by them, but it is elevation and species sensitive and we have a week to explore and find it once we set up camp. It sounds like a good year, so there should be patches all along the route once we bottom out on the east side of the pass a little west of Mojave.

Thanks for the Maslenitska video. I don't think the celebration is worth putting up with their winter, but I'm a SoCal brat and snow borders on anathema to me.

—

That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

Submitted by mimi on Mon, 03/11/2019 - 1:20pm

Do you have the Boskoop Apfel in the US?

It's my favorite apple, a little sour and very juicy. We had three trees of them in our garden when I was a child. I have never seen a boskoop apple in the US and missed it.
Belle de Boskoop

Ours was more green-greyish than reddish and ... oh so juicy and firm and crisp. Originated in the Netherland, so it should have come over to the US, right?

Wished I could find a nice song about apples...

—

https://www.euronews.com/

Submitted by enhydra lutris on Mon, 03/11/2019 - 1:55pm

Good morning, mimi. Never heard of it.

@mimi
Here's an update on a 1936 Fat's Waller tune.

—

That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

Submitted by magiamma on Mon, 03/11/2019 - 4:33pm

afternoon el...

et al...

sun for a bit on our side of the continent. nice to have a break from the rain. I just saw a ? black vulture ? in the preserve. never have I seen one before, knowingly, let alone in the preserve. the crows were not happy. took flight before I could get a picture.

no news, working in the salt mines of the-climate-breakdown gathering carloads full of broken climate detritus. heh. but just have to say. capitalism isn't working. okay then.

have a good one, one and all...

—

Stop Climate Change Silence - Start the Conversation

Hot Air Website, Twitter, Facebook

Submitted by QMS on Mon, 03/11/2019 - 5:00pm

back east we have the turkey

@magiamma
buzzard variety. huge bird and scary looking. Especially in a dead tree by the shoulder. but didn't see till the head moved why cut alternate energy & preservation budget by 70%
Cruel buzzards

Submitted by enhydra lutris on Mon, 03/11/2019 - 8:22pm

Good evening, magi. Immature Turkey vulture is far more

@magiamma
likely if you were in CA. Black vultures generally don't exit in CA, though some show up on range maps down in the border lands. I'e certainly never seen one, even down there. They're mostly in mexico, central and south America and in the south and southeast. Here's a link to Cornell's range map for hem.
https://www.allaboutbirds.org/guide/Black_Vulture/overview

—

That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

Submitted by lotlizard on Mon, 03/11/2019 - 5:14pm

And then there’s the idiom “How do you like them apples?”

as something a person can say mockingly and triumphantly.

Submitted by The Aspie Corner on Mon, 03/11/2019 - 9:39pm

A little late, but here's Johnny Newspaperseed

[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Um9rzGPE3Ug]

—

Modern education is little more than toeing the line for the capitalist pigs.

Guerrilla Liberalism won't liberate the US or the world from the iron fist of capital.

Submitted by enhydra lutris on Tue, 03/12/2019 - 7:48am

Happy Tuesday, Aspie, thanks.

@The Aspie Corner

—

That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

Submitted by dystopian on Mon, 03/11/2019 - 10:48pm

Nice stuff E.L.

Love Jimmy Greenspoon, this was my favorite... Chest Fever, was a wild rocker for 3DN.

or link just in case:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K9JQqvsTbVY

Harvey Mandell was a great player too, loved that piece with Mayall. Prescient lyrics. Vanila Fudge was awesome too. Loved 'em.

—

We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.
Look deep into nature, and then you will understand everything better.
both - Albert Einstein

Submitted by enhydra lutris on Tue, 03/12/2019 - 7:48am

Good Tuesday, dystopian, thanks.

@dystopian

—

That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --