So now even Markos embraces socialism

So Markos says he wants us to have a debate about socialism.
This is coming from a guy who banned democratic socialists from debating the Democratic primaries in mid-March.
I'm starting to think that "socialism" has become a fad among some Democrats.

If Markos is serious, shouldn't he admit he was wrong on DKos and apologize?
Hah! Of course not. Markos still took a moment to sh*t on Bernie.

It's obvious that the political ground has shifted, and now Markos is rushing to catch up, by co-opting the label. Just like they did to "progressive".

Progressive leaders gathered at the annual Netroots Nation conference sought to deliver a clear message about the Democratic Party's direction headed into the 2020 presidential race: They won't settle for a moderate to take on President Donald Trump.

So no Biden then? We shall see.
I wonder if any of them are just posers?

The moderate speaker, congressman Tim Ryan of Ohio, who spoke last month at a convention convened by the centrist thinktank Third Way, reaffirmed his support for Medicare for All and legalizing marijuana while the most leftwing, socialist Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez made a call for Democratic unity.

Right. That Third Way convention specifically opposed Medicare for All.
Now he endorses it?? Bullsh*t.

As for Netroots, this is still a problem.

The conference which has a history of disruption by Black Lives Matter activists saw a similar protest on Saturday. But while past events saw activists demand that presidential candidates explicitly state that “Black Lives Matter,” those crowding the stage holding signs saying “#blackasscaucus” were focused on administrative issues.
...
“I see some of you are uncomfortable. Your white fragility is showing. Your white tears are showing – I’m ready to drink them,” one activist told the crowd.

That's not a protest. That's a troll.

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JekyllnHyde's picture

@gulfgal98

Either that, or he's bitter about his "Russia Campaign."

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A riddle wrapped in a mystery inside an enigma

thanatokephaloides's picture

@JtC

Y'all are missing it...

my crystal ball predicts a Hillary run in 2020 as a, wait for it, a reinvented Socialist.

Αρνιέμαι! Aρνιέμαι! Aρνιέμαι!

(Αρνιέμαι! is Greek for "I refuse!")

Wink

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"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar

"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides

@thanatokephaloides
the spirit of Leonidas at Thermopylae.

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thanatokephaloides's picture

@JtC

Ahhhh...the spirit of Leonidas at Thermopylae.

F. Harry Stow, Leonidas! (ευχαριστώ, Λεωνίδα!)

(ευχαριστώ is Greek for "thank you"!)

Smile

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"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar

"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides

@JtC the closest I’ve seen to any of the Democratic bigwigs taking responsibility for the 2016 wipe out was all the talk about “we need better messaging/branding”. So maybe you meant that comment in jest but I think we’re already seeing “socialism” turned into a meaningless label for the same neoliberal crap. Besides, it’s still HER turn and she’s due for another reinvention. /s (I think?)

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Idolizing a politician is like believing the stripper really likes you.

@Dr. John Carpenter
warmongering banksterism didn't work out so well, so what's a shapeshifter to do? Did she not co-opt some of Bernie's messaging in the primary?

Methinks Hillary shallt not walk away so easily.

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@JtC heh

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Idolizing a politician is like believing the stripper really likes you.

enhydra lutris's picture

@Dr. John Carpenter
HER had HER Turn and HER fucked it up and lost, lost, lost, because, truth be told, she never really had much of a chance anyway.

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That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@enhydra lutris There are no turns in a republic. She's thinking of hereditary monarchy.

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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

karl pearson's picture

@JtC @JtC Hillary states in this video that she was LBJ in debate class, so I'm sure she'll use this experience as proof she is a reinvented Socialist.

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thanatokephaloides's picture

@karl pearson

Hillary has some experience in "socialism" Hillary states in this video that she was LBJ in debate class, so I'm sure she'll use this experience as proof she is a reinvented Socialist.

She was on LBJ in debate class, you say? Wink

("LBJ", a mixture of LSD, Belladonna, and "junk", i.e., heroin, is the worst and most deranging street drug ever compounded. Even the Anarchist Cookbook warned its users to steer clear of it.)

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"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar

"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides

@JtC
where Karl Marx is her spirit guide. If it polls well.

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Orwell: Where's the omelette?

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@JtC

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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

mimi's picture

@JtC
fact-based and faith-based all in one. We shall feel blessed. Right?

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Cassiodorus's picture

@JtC https://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/04/21/hillary-clinton-calls-for_0_n_...

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The ruling classes need an extra party to make the rest of us feel as if we participate in democracy. That's what the Democrats are for. They make the US more durable than the Soviet Union was.

Big Al's picture

need to be called out on it or we'll never have a true debate about socialism. Continuing to label what they're talking about as socialism and people like Ocasio Cortez as socialists serves to steer the debate into social reforms within a capitalist system, not into a debate about an actual socialist system which is what we'll need at least in part if we're ever going to have a nationalized health care system. That's a big difference. I can see it coming, another fucking Obamacare bullshit that keeps the major corporations in charge. Not to mention the DSA embrace of imperialism which is completely antithetical to socialism.

"The vote for “democratic socialist” Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez in last month’s Democratic Party primary in New York reflects growing interest in socialist politics and hostility to capitalism, particularly among young people. However, Ocasio-Cortez’s campaign is based on a fundamental lie that is fatal to all those who are seeking to oppose inequality, war and the attack on immigrants, namely that anything can be achieved through the Democratic Party."

https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2018/07/28/nile-j28.html

"Ocasio-Cortez does not challenge private ownership of the corporations and banks, the economic basis for the stranglehold of the corporate-financial oligarchy over every aspect of life in America and around the world. She does not call for public ownership and democratic control of industry, finance, transport, telecommunications, energy, etc. She does not advocate industrial democracy or workers’ control over production."
"The DSA seeks to give a “left” cover for a thoroughly right-wing party. Far from advancing the interests of workers, the eight years of the Obama administration saw the multi-trillion-dollar bailout of the banks, which has produced soaring stock markets and record social inequality. Obama continued the wars of the Bush administration while expanding the police-state spying apparatus. This paved the way for the victory of Trump."

So Marcos and the establishment dems aren't any different from the progressive dems in the end and that's exactly what he's saying.

Politics in bad faith: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez campaigns in Michigan
https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2018/07/31/cort-j31.html

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@Big Al
on Thursday.

Doncha' hate it when we agree?

Continuing to label what they're talking about as socialism and people like Ocasio Cortez as socialists serves to steer the debate into social reforms within a capitalist system, not into a debate about an actual socialist system which is what we'll need at least in part if we're ever going to have a nationalized health care system.
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Big Al's picture

@gjohnsit Ocasio-Cortez?

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@Big Al
AOC is a New Deal Democrat and Markos is a moderate Republican.

That's a significant difference.

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Big Al's picture

@gjohnsit There is no difference, they're all democrats. See that where I disagree greatly with you. You think the party is reformable thru these "new deal" fake socialist democratic party politicians whereas I not only don't but feel the democratic party and the duopoly political system ARE the problem and that they should be opposed. We might agree on some of the ills of the country and our government but we don't agree on how to address them. And that's the real issue of the left.

Like I said, look where Ocasio-Cortez and the "new deal" democrats are heading, right into an attempt at another Obamacare fiasco.

"Ocasio-Cortez’s inability to say anything genuinely oppositional, let alone radical, is bound up with her political role. She has quickly been absorbed into the Democratic Party establishment, and her rhetoric conforms to its politics. In promoting a right-wing party, her “left-wing” gloss is reduced to empty slogans.
Only a few sentences of her speech touched on actual policy. “The future of this party is improved and expanded Medicare for all,” she declared. For Abdul El-Sayed, “Medicare for all” means a statewide health care system paid for by workers from their own paychecks, one which his website boasts will exempt a substantial number of businesses from health care contributions."

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@Big Al to wonder if these people really know what actual socialism is? I think we know most Americans have a piss poor idea of what it actually is, and I would not be surprised at all that for these candidates MFA and free public college is "socialism" for them because it is seen as socialism in America but that's as far as "socialism" goes in America. When we have people calling Obummer a socialist I have to stop and wonder if they really know what it means to be socialist?

For me, I just can't believe in any of these people anymore, just can't. We have been fooled and lied to by all of them for so long I can't listen to them anymore. I got my ballot in the mail for tomorrow and I have yet to even look at it. I doubt I actually vote this time since I just don't believe that will change one damned thing. While there was a time I would feel guilty for not voting that day has passed for me.

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Only a fool lets someone else tell him who his enemy is. Assata Shakur

@lizzyh7
Not only do I think that 99% of people, even some people in the DSA, don't know what is actually socialism, I'm willing to bet that most Americans couldn't correctly define capitalism.

It's actually an interesting concept that so many are willing to go to war and surrender their rights to defeat an enemy that doesn't actually exist, for an ideology that people don't actually understand.

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Big Al's picture

@gjohnsit Have you changed your tune on that? You're certainly linking to articles that are flat out calling her a socialist.

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@Big Al
so I assumed you actually read it.

I'm incline to believe that your primary objective is to disagree with me.

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Big Al's picture

@gjohnsit ago to that.

Ocasio-Cortez is only 28, has never held a political office before, and she's a socialist.

https://caucus99percent.com/content/huge-win-progressives

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@Big Al
you just have a hard-on for ragging on the author.
So he has a different view than yours. Why is that intolerable and needing to be harped on over and over and over and over and over and over....
As far as actually changing anything (and correcting some guy on a small blog over and over and... can't possibly do that) you should ponder my two essays on precisely how that gets done, if at all.

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Orwell: Where's the omelette?

Big Al's picture

@jim p But you've convinced me. Fuck it.

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@jim p
I welcome Al's views on stuff, but his intolerance for my opinions is tiresome.
He should learn how to just let things go.

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Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@gjohnsit

On the one hand, bashing one's head into a wall is definitely pointless, and boring for everybody; neither you nor Al is going to convince the other, so "letting go" might be the better option.

On the other hand, nobody needs to "just let go" of disagreement if they don't want to.

You and I disagree pretty substantially. Should you "just let go" of your advocacy for the reform of the Democratic Party, because you know it won't convince me? Should you "just let go" of your support for Democratic politicians because I think that's a waste of time?

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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

@Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal

You and I disagree pretty substantially. Should you "just let go" of your advocacy for the reform of the Democratic Party, because you know it won't convince me? Should you "just let go" of your support for Democratic politicians because I think that's a waste of time?

How many essays have I written bashing the Democratic Party (dozens? hundreds?), and still a few people here accuse me of being a partisan.
Nuance will not be tolerated?

You had it right the first time - just let it go.

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Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@gjohnsit I said "advocacy for the REFORM of the Democratic party." Not for the Democratic party in its current state.

You certainly advocate for the reform of the Democratic party, both when you bash it and when you promote reformist Democrats like Ocasio-Cortez.

You're responding to something I did not say, and ignoring my main point: none of us has a right to tell somebody else the conversation is over.

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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

@jim p after years and years and years of failure, any rational person would be tempted to dump the dems.

The only reason they don't is because everyone is brainwashed that 3rd parties won't win, just like they are brainwashed that only big money can win elections.

(btw, it is really amusing to hear Hannity call for party unity, while Ingraham is ready to spit bullets over the centrist repubs - so they are having the same arguments we have right there on Fox)

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dfarrah

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@dfarrah Fact-based politics or faith-based politics? That's the question.

The cost of being fact-based is very high. It makes it hard to get up in the morning. Faith-based politics is much nicer. Yet somehow I just can't stomach it.

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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@gjohnsit It all depends, gjohnsit.

Will Ocasio-Cortez actually fight the corporatists in her own party, or will she join hands with them while making nice speeches?

If it's the latter, we already have Liz Warren for that.

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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

@Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal
But I'll give anyone at least one chance.
Doing otherwise is too cynical for me to stomach.

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Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@gjohnsit (shrugs) OK.

Like I said, I'm never going to convince you. And you're never going to convince me. Only a consistent record of solid actions with no bullshit will do that.

Examples of bullshit include telling me to join hands with Tom Perez or the like.

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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

mimi's picture

@Big Al
love the camera and are 'young at heart' .... uhmmm that sounds cheesy. Sorry.

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snoopydawg's picture

@Big Al

without saying anything about anything. That's what I thought when I read the article. Thanks for linking it. I've been looking for it. That she is pushing Russia Gate tells me that she won't get far from towing the DP line.

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Big Al's picture

@snoopydawg in the "politicians squeezed thumb/forefinger position" and I thot, omg, not another one. A trained human political animal who will say and do anything to remain one either forever or until she gets the golden prize like Obama.
I'm sorry to see people fall for that again.

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Amanda Matthews's picture

@snoopydawg

I’ll wait and see but personally I have my doubts about anyone running in the ‘party’ who’s legal defense to their cheating is that “we pick who we want and if you don’t like it, tough shit, we’ll do it anyway. Now STFU.’

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I'm tired of this back-slapping "Isn't humanity neat?" bullshit. We're a virus with shoes, okay? That's all we are. - Bill Hicks

Politics is the entertainment branch of industry. - Frank Zappa

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@snoopydawg This purist's litmus test goes something like this:

Do you sound like Joe McCarthy?
Then fuck off.

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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

@Big Al
but that term has been rendered meaningless. When Progressives tout total corporate control via TPP, they no longer stand for Social Progress.

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I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@Big Al I can't argue with any of this:

"The vote for “democratic socialist” Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez in last month’s Democratic Party primary in New York reflects growing interest in socialist politics and hostility to capitalism, particularly among young people. However, Ocasio-Cortez’s campaign is based on a fundamental lie that is fatal to all those who are seeking to oppose inequality, war and the attack on immigrants, namely that anything can be achieved through the Democratic Party."

I'll even add to it: given what happened to Bernie Sanders in 2016, it's obvious that even social democrats and their reforms will not be tolerated.

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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

Raggedy Ann's picture

who needs an apology from a puppet of the DNC? He can never redeem himself. He’s a “follow the trends but give them that ole’ centrist twist” asshole Who could ever be fooled by that fool again?

Good arguments above. Thanks for the perspectives. Pleasantry

PS - it’s raining. Smile

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"The “jumpers” reminded us that one day we will all face only one choice and that is how we will die, not how we will live." Chris Hedges on 9/11

snoopydawg's picture

@Raggedy Ann

Hopefully you get the right amount without it causing flooding since it's been so dry there. Wish we'd get some to clear out our air. Smoke from the fires here and from California has gotten stuck in the valley and the mountains are barely visible. Just saw the sunset and it was a huge red ball.

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Raggedy Ann's picture

@snoopydawg
But it raised the humidity. We planted a tree yesterday. It was planned, but after watching the two videos from the Weekly Watch about planting trees, I'm inspired. Have a good one, Snoopy!

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"The “jumpers” reminded us that one day we will all face only one choice and that is how we will die, not how we will live." Chris Hedges on 9/11

@Raggedy Ann is the formal term for his operation.

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Orwell: Where's the omelette?

Raggedy Ann's picture

@jim p
I'll never participate on that blog again.

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"The “jumpers” reminded us that one day we will all face only one choice and that is how we will die, not how we will live." Chris Hedges on 9/11

k9disc's picture

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“Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat.” ~ Sun Tzu

link

There is something that ties together nationalist leaders the world over: from US President Donald Trump to the new Italian interior minister, Matteo Salvini, from India's PM Narendra Modi to Hungary's PM Viktor Orban. Yes, they all share a penchant for authoritarian government and a general contempt of liberal democracy. And yes, they are on the whole xenophobes who scapegoat minorities to justify political failure. But there is something far more disturbing than that: What if they were the only visionaries around?
...
This will be a litmus test for the state of democracy worldwide, touching nearly 500 million people in 27 democracies. The plan is simple. Turn the European elections into a confrontation between enthusiastic supporters of a new world order and tired defenders of the bygone world of yesterday: the strategy that worked so well in the race between Trump and Hillary Clinton.

There is only one way to respond. And that is to finally formulate an all-encompassing vision for a new world beyond the demise of neoliberalism. We need a visionary blueprint of change touching some of the most pressing global issues of our time with the sort of disruptive ideas that would have been deemed unthinkable in the old system: policies like universal income, job guarantee, technological sovereignty, closure of tax heavens, a common international asylum system, ecological transformation and redistribution within and between countries.

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Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@gjohnsit We don't need a visionary blueprint. We have scads of them. Most of them would represent a genuine change for the good; all of them would be an improvement on the shitpile we inhabit currently.

We need, first truth, then a path to power. It's the second one that stumps me. Meanwhile, the shitheads who run the shitpile are doing their damnedest to bury the first in shit.

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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

Visits to his site, and revenues, are "Marcosly" down from the purge days, and with his pet liberal fascists ganging up on anyone who raises common sense.

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Orwell: Where's the omelette?

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The Liberal Moonbat's picture

Its proper meaning is so clear as to be impervious to any serious misuse.

...

bce.jpg

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In the Land of the Blind, the One-Eyed Man is declared mentally ill for describing colors.

Yes Virginia, there is a Global Banking Conspiracy!

Cassiodorus's picture

@The Liberal Moonbat especially given that its leader had a book out, explaining his aims, long before he was appointed to power.

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The ruling classes need an extra party to make the rest of us feel as if we participate in democracy. That's what the Democrats are for. They make the US more durable than the Soviet Union was.

says the man who invented the house of Slytherin. Hey Markos, it's all the trolls who have taken over your site who are using McCarthy tactics to ban or harass or time out anyone who promoted Bernie and/or criticized Hillary (or the CIA as I did).

Markos, you are a piece of shit. And I only reserve that description for people who are the lowest of low.

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"Without the right to offend, freedom of speech does not exist." Taslima Nasrin

The Liberal Moonbat's picture

"Anna Lemma"

"TrueBlueMajority"

"Black Max"

"burlydee"

"gardnerhill"

"elesares"

These are the individuals with whom I had the deeply disturbing (and in several cases, downright abusive) exchanges that finally made me flee DailyKos. I'm trying to work through the mental injury (I've been slowly dying under the yoke of full-throttle mental illness for over a decade now, and this recent shit was the LAST thing I needed), and I'm wondering if anyone else here can offer insights on these individuals.

Semi-oddly: As to that last nom de guerre, try looking it up, and all you get is some kind of heavy metal album song.

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In the Land of the Blind, the One-Eyed Man is declared mentally ill for describing colors.

Yes Virginia, there is a Global Banking Conspiracy!

mimi's picture

@The Liberal Moonbat
well, one was softer spoken and one was an aggressive one. Both didn't convince me. But I didn't 'debate' them when I thought they were 'off".

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The Liberal Moonbat's picture

@mimi

The guy(?) had literally NO PERSONALITY I could perceive. Just party-line pablum and the most generic-ass avatar (for a "Blue Team" political site) as could be imagined.

The first time I ran into him(?), I actively wondered if he(?) was nothing but a DP astroturfer. I still do. I'm positive there were some on there.

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In the Land of the Blind, the One-Eyed Man is declared mentally ill for describing colors.

Yes Virginia, there is a Global Banking Conspiracy!

Cassiodorus's picture

@The Liberal Moonbat Oh and not only did I leave, but I deleted every last one of my diaries and put the ones worth saving in a Wordpress blog.

And wasn't the writing on the wall when Markos declared that only "constructive criticism" of Hillary Clinton would be allowed on his blog?

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The ruling classes need an extra party to make the rest of us feel as if we participate in democracy. That's what the Democrats are for. They make the US more durable than the Soviet Union was.

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@The Liberal Moonbat Who was the one who kept posting pictures of Obama's dog?

She was a bit scary.

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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

The Liberal Moonbat's picture

@Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal Her(?) avatar was some kind of dog.

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In the Land of the Blind, the One-Eyed Man is declared mentally ill for describing colors.

Yes Virginia, there is a Global Banking Conspiracy!

@The Liberal Moonbat

Actually there is a whole little group around her who are as nasty as the day is long (Timaeus comes to mind) and they not only harassed me, but made sure that Betty Clermont was banned.

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"Without the right to offend, freedom of speech does not exist." Taslima Nasrin

The Liberal Moonbat's picture

@Fishtroller 02

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In the Land of the Blind, the One-Eyed Man is declared mentally ill for describing colors.

Yes Virginia, there is a Global Banking Conspiracy!

coming to the realization that to win they NEED the BerniBros vote. After kicking and banishing any dissent well,...how to get enough of those people back? Let's have a debate!!! He's selling a product that has a known defect, his ability to alienate people, a large ego, and a lack of foresight.

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Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@Snode I don't debate with professional liars.

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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

@Snode

to win they NEED the BerniBros vote

I was repeatedly told on DKos that they didn't want or need Sanders voters.

Of course those same people were confident in Hillary winning in 2016.

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The Liberal Moonbat's picture

@gjohnsit

Classic line in any parasitic/predatory/abusive relationship.

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In the Land of the Blind, the One-Eyed Man is declared mentally ill for describing colors.

Yes Virginia, there is a Global Banking Conspiracy!

@gjohnsit @gjohnsit That's still the line, but there are a lot more people that don't buy it anymore. You turn your back on a good part of the base, squash dissent and all you have is an echo chamber. If that chamber isn't big enough, you need more supporters. I wonder though if they're smart enough to realize this, or if it's a "sham" debate held solely to put the opposition down once and for all in some grand manner?

edited for speling

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Cassiodorus's picture

@gjohnsit They participate in politics to defend a position, which is to jump out in front of the parades of the liberals and progressives so as to make sure those parades are staged solely for right-wing ends. Winning elections isn't important to them.

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The ruling classes need an extra party to make the rest of us feel as if we participate in democracy. That's what the Democrats are for. They make the US more durable than the Soviet Union was.

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

to shore up the Democratic party?

The moderate speaker, congressman Tim Ryan of Ohio, who spoke last month at a convention convened by the centrist thinktank Third Way, reaffirmed his support for Medicare for All and legalizing marijuana while the most leftwing, socialist Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez made a call for Democratic unity.

The socialist Ocasio-Cortez calls for unity while the Third Way "centrist" talks about how left he is?

All that seems geared toward deflecting any challenge to the party as an institution or analysis of its power structure.

Truthfully, there's little point in discussing policy in practical terms (as in "What should our party platform be? What bills will we support? What direction do we want to take the country?") unless there is a fundamental shift in power, and it's fairly clear that no politician is willing to demand that. Why they aren't willing is, at this point, beside the point.

In other words, I'm not sure it matters who says they support Medicare for All, though calling out rank hypocrisy is always a good thing.

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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

This is a place to help make sure that the GOP stays in power by alienating progressives from the Dem party.
I voted for Stein the last election, taking for granted that Clinton would win anyway. I would have loved to be able to vote for Bernie, but he wasn't on the ticket, and I hated Clinton. In fact, the only Dem presidential candidate I ever voted for was Gore. And wished later I had voted for Perot.
But when Trump won, I had this terrible sinking feeling in my stomach. It was a feeling of absolute dread that I know a lot of Germans must have felt when the Nazis took power. And Ive always preached about how most Dems were just the lesser of two evils. But Trump has been an absolute crisis. And the GOP has become an existential threat.
So these days my philosophy is to vote for the most progressive candidate in the primary. And then support whoever has the best chance of defeating the Republican in the general.

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A house divided cannot stand - Abraham Lincoln

@pewtergod

So these days my philosophy is to vote for the most progressive candidate in the primary. And then support whoever has the best chance of defeating the Republican in the general.

The general consensus on C99P is that Lesser-Evilism is a played out strategy.
We've voted for the lesser evil for so long, that what was once the Greater Evil is now the Lesser Evil.
Just because the GOP is even worse, doesn't make the Dems acceptable.

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dance you monster's picture

@pewtergod

. . . that most folks here at c99p have rejected the Lesser of Two Evils voting tactic as simply a slower path to ruin for everyone, this place -- c99p -- is not a place with a single philosophy or strategy of political action. It is certainly not devoted to a single political party.

We tend to the left, generally far to the left, but there are (in just this thread!) those who want to consider another shot at improving the Dems and others who reject both of the dominant parties in the U.S. Please do not try to pigeonhole this site; it exists, in fact, to accommodate multiple points of view and agendas, to permit dialogues that other sites expressly shut down. As long as you make your case respectfully to other c99ers, you can argue for anything you want here.

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@pewtergod "This is a place to help make sure that the GOP stays in power by alienating progressives from the Dem party."

If that were the case, people here would out and out say it, that they want the GOP to stay in power and piss on progressives. They're pretty open here. There is no need for accusations. I felt like crap when Trump won, but that's who Clinton WANTED to run against. She thought he was the weakest candidate. So I hope your philosophy works out, but at a certain point blind party loyalty can't salvage poor leadership.

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Cassiodorus's picture

@pewtergod

This is a place to help make sure that the GOP stays in power by alienating progressives from the Dem party.

The purpose of the current leadership of the Democratic Party is to contribute to the greater glory of the Republican Party. Under Obama they punted 900 state legislative seats to the Republicans and none of them so much as batted an eyelash about it.

Did you think that we exist here at c99% to help them in that aim? Why would the people of the Dem leadership imagine that they needed our help in handing government over to the Republicans, when they're accomplishing that aim just fine all by themselves?

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The ruling classes need an extra party to make the rest of us feel as if we participate in democracy. That's what the Democrats are for. They make the US more durable than the Soviet Union was.

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@pewtergod This is a place to help make sure that the GOP stays in power by alienating progressives from the Dem party.

LMFAO!

Hey guys, our little site is what "makes sure the GOP stays in power." It's not decisions made at high levels in either party, or in the media, or by very wealthy donors when they choose where to put their money. It's certainly not election fraud, like in 2000 and 2004. Oh, no. It's our little site. It's too bad we didn't exist from 1994-2006; otherwise the Republicans would have had way more success and might even have taken over the House of Representatives!

Our little site is also what "alienates progressives from the Dem party." Nobody is alienated on their own, not till they come here and then BAM! their minds are shattered by contact with The Bad and they turn into zombie hordes that try to rip apart their very own Party. It's a little like when Russia puts ads on Facebook.

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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

mimi's picture

it's uplifting spirit and always sing along. ...

BTW, I couldn't get the video to play and have no idea what and how Markos said what. But szene came to my mind which probably is completely irrelevant, but that's how my mind works. I am good at irrelevant stuff.

Do you remember the user Jerome a Paris in the early years of Dailykos. I saw them both having a chat at the yearlykos (don't remember the year, pretty early). Their body language and facial expressions were 'telling'. Jerome was a banker from France and certainly not a 'socialist' (I rememher he had a very sickly child - don't remember what it was, but an illness that for any parent would be a huge emotional challenge and burden). He didn't stay long with dailykos. I wonder if he would read today's thread and discussion. May be he would invite you to France, because they have all those "terrible socialist services" Markos now seems to need to stay 'relevant'.

Jerome seemed politely disinterested in Markos and Markos was a little nervous about it and looked up to him with big eyes.

Later on I had to step over a man who slept on the floor in the middle of a crowd passing through the hallways. He laid on his back and stared with very ice cold eyes at me while I tried to pass and had to step over him. I wonder who that was. He was someone 'known' and 'important'. Never forget those eyes. Scary.

You guys and girls know each other apparently.

BTW, lots of drama queen performance in this thread. I like drama just it must be real good one. Mimi drama:
[video:https://youtu.be/m_qtmD9ZMmU]
with apologies to Alligator Ed, who doesn't like Puccini and prefers Brahms, to which I say even a mediocre aria from Puccini can sound great when the right woman comes along and sings it.

Now I am looking for some Brahms, because I need to take Alligator Ed's advice serious.

I try to read and understand why the Americans and Russians were united beating the Nazis in Germany and then immediately after they successfully did that, turned against each other. So much for a working women who 'schlepped' her books around the world to never unpack and read them. I swear if I had no internet and wouldn't read here, I at least had finished some of my books.

Can't you all get along?

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