GOP Bill Will Cut Medicare and Social Security
Updated: So we knew the $$$ Trillion+ in Tax Giveaways to the rich had to be paid for 'somehow'. Now Repubs tell us how they plan to do it. Most smart people knew this was coming anyway, but now the first cannon balls have been fired against the ramparts, so this is no longer just a bad dream.
"House Republicans released a budget proposal Tuesday (June 20) that would balance in nine years – but only by making large cuts to entitlement programs, including Medicare and Social Security, that President Donald Trump has vowed not to touch."
https://www.denverpost.com/2018/06/20/medicare-social-security-cuts-budget/
The House Republican budget is entitled “A Brighter American Future”. Enjoy your Brighter Future thanks to the GOPers.
This bill will probably be tabled until after November. Even GOPers don't want to attend townhalls to face angry seniors. And to be honest, even young voters should be enraged about this because as far off as retirement seems, it will get here.
Update: Essay has been updated to remove Trump endorsement of the GOP plan. I missed the mention later in the article. Sorry about that. So we'll see if he still won't endorse it after the November elections.
Comments
Security will be tight at any Town Halls.
Of course, they won't be wearing Political Party uniforms. TPTB learned a long time ago not to have their enforcers identify who they're actually working for. Instead it'll be guys dressed EXACTLY like legitimate cops. With the only difference being a patch if the owner of the Merc company is an egomaniacal idiot.
The SA, with a camera friendly makeover.
I do not pretend I know what I do not know.
When is this shit not going to be ok with Trump supporters?
It's really up to them to draw the line and get us out of this mess. Snatching babies at the border is wrong. Why the f**k can't Trump supporters see that?
Beware the bullshit factories.
Why?
Same reason the Obama supporters didn't. Tribalism.
The outrage at Trump’s immigration policies, the Muslim travel ban, family separations, indefinite incarceration, ‘zero tolerance,’ and now possibly no due process for immigrants, is justified, but forgets all too easily Obama’s and the Democrat’s own horrific immigration policies, says Roberto Lovato
https://therealnews.com/stories/media-coverage-of-trump-immigration-poli...
As to cutting social programs we knew this was coming. Now the question is will the dims fight it or let it pass the way they have military spending, wall street deregulation, increased spying powers, ad infinitum
“Until justice rolls down like water and righteousness like a mighty stream.”
If recent history is any indication
Dems will put up a 'fake' resistance so they can claim "Don't blame us. We tried to stop it.". But they will produce just enough Dem Blue Dawg votes to pass it.
It's a Duopoly after all. Both parties are whores to the Morbidly Rich and the Corporations.
Donnie The #ShitHole Douchebag. Fake Friend to the Working Class. Real Asshole.
that's my suspicion too
The great irony here is the tax cuts come at a time of record income gains by the very folks receiving those tax cuts. They are finally achieving their dream of destroying the new deal.
“Until justice rolls down like water and righteousness like a mighty stream.”
Digging Up FDR's Corpse
to steal his watch and wedding ring.
Yeah I read recently that today's Class Financial Inequality is similary to that leading up to the 1929 Crash. Difference is now the masses are armed to the teeth with gunz.
Donnie The #ShitHole Douchebag. Fake Friend to the Working Class. Real Asshole.
I have read that wealth inequality is actually worse
then it was during the lead up to the Great Depression, but what is different is that there isn't mass unemployment right now. When the top 3 most wealthy men in the world own more than at least the bottom half of money things need to change. No one person needs to have more that $142 BILLION and then refuse to pay a head tax to help house the people that his business has led to being homeless because of rising housing and rental prices. That Bezos could actually threaten and then get the Seattle city to council to back down with that head tax is wrong on so many levels. Starbucks also threatened to pull out of Seattle if that happened. Just wrong.
One article stated that the homeless problem plaguing the US could be solved with just $20 billion which would still leave Bezos the richest man in the world. But instead of raising taxes on those that can afford to pay them we saw the republicans cut them. But obviously that wasn't enough for them and their masters because now they are doing what they have longed dream of doing. People think that business coup failed. I disagree. Instead of overthrowing Roosevelt and rescinding the the New Deal they just came at it more slowly.
Which AIPAC/MIC/pharma/bank bought politician are you going to vote for? Don’t be surprised when nothing changes.
That’s the thing about greed. It is an inexorable force
for evil.
"The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power. Now do you begin to understand me?" ~Orwell, "1984"
"Don't blame us. We tried to stop it."
You left off the last part "Please donate today" with the obligatory check boxes.
My question has nothing to do with the "dims"
The responsibility now is on all the brainwashed people who keep enabling Trump and are helping turn America into a shithole. We're talking about a shithole level America has not seen for a hundred years. When are Trump enablers going to assume their responsibility to America? Never?
Beware the bullshit factories.
They all say that there choice was Hillary or Trump
so they chose Trump. Dems might do a little better in Fall because those people say they will stop voting.
Yes, I advocate for a Reform party but a national party takes decades to build.
I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.
Not really.
National Parties can coalesce in a matter of days, and they do all over the world. Of course, there are many many legal barriers to new parties in the US, and all we ever see will be a duopoly. The oligarchs select the key candidates and appointees and have done so since Woodrow Wilson.
So, you are right. It does make sense to take over one of the current two Parties, and reform it. You might have a shot at reforming the system that way.
____________________
The political system is what it is because the People are who they are. — Plato
The Republican Party was formed in 1854
and Abe Lincoln was elected in 1860. It doesn't take long at all for a party to build, it just needs a party to die, and the Democrats have been dieing since 2010.
On to Biden since 1973
But it built on several other movements.
It didn't spring fully formed like Athena from the forehead of Zeus.
I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.
♡♡♡ I love it when you talk Classics to me. :) n/t
Yes, of course there was background,
but we have background today. They had abolition, we have the New Deal, which is several times more popular than abolition ever was. They had abolitionists, we had Occupy. They had anger over the Know Nothings, we have anger over the same level of coorruption. The real difference was that it boiled over for them when the Whigs fell apart. The Democrats have not yet fallen apart, but there are pretty hopeful signs that the end is near for the Democrats. I do not believe that anyone is able to predict when or even how the tipping point will come; I have predicted that massive losses in the 2018 elections will be the trigger, but that is just a guess. Peoplee like AOC and Bernie and Tulsi are in place, but publicly unwilling to cross the Rubicon. Something will force their hands. (or maybe not, but if not Pence or Hillary making a pronunciomento will be - or not) Predicting failure may be right, but it serves no purose.
On to Biden since 1973
They will not see it until
it happens to them personally, and then they'll blame the "libruls" for "doing it to them." Jeez, even out here we have people who simply refuse to see that Trump is just another predatory Repugnant, period, end of discussion. Sure, he may have some "Democratic tendencies" and talks one hell of a game, but his supporters will NEVER admit their policies are the fucking problem and those policies are fully non partisan. And while he talks all that nice happy talk about jobs and America first he does not give one shit about Americans who are not wealthy or those who cant in some way make him and his fellow predators even richer. For his supporters to admit they too were expertly fooled now is simply not possible and that's why they'll continue to support him even as their own financial situation goes into the shitter. They are right and we are wrong and they'll go to their death screaming that. Many of my own estranged family are indeed true Repugnants in just that way, they vote against themselves and then blame others - classic projection makes them REAL Americans all the way. While we on the "left" have had to admit our own glaring errors, Repugnant do not EVER do that. It is party all the way and MAGA until the country goes down in flames. Will they believe it when it crashes? Nope, that'll all be "librul" hype too. Idiot America on steroids all the way! USA, USA, USA!!!!!
Only a fool lets someone else tell him who his enemy is. Assata Shakur
"America First " while all of his crap is made in China
Plus he just asked if he could hire 61 foreigners to work at his country club in Florida. Why aren't his supporters all over this? This willfully selective seeing of which things he says is dumbfounding!
"Immigrants are taking American jobs and I want to put a stop to this" while hiring foreigners to work at his club! This should be national headlines in every newspaper and website, but I have rarely seen it written about on the mainstream media. Why isn't the Resistance screaming out about his hypocrisy? Because they have an agenda and that doesn't fit into it! Good grief, if this doesn't show how fake the media and democrats are I don't know what will.
He's bringing jobs back to America while Harley Davidson just fired hundreds of workers because of his trade wars, but what about Catapiller who closed down its factories after Trump helped them with their financial difficulties? I really dislike hypocrisy!
Which AIPAC/MIC/pharma/bank bought politician are you going to vote for? Don’t be surprised when nothing changes.
Obama telegraphed where the Dems stood
when he offered up Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid as a bargaining chip in his Grand Bargain. We were spared temporarily when Boehner did not take him up on it.
I had heard some time ago that Trump said he would keep his campaign promise through his first term only and would cut the social safety net in his second term. Now it looks like the Republicans and Trump want to do it now. Trump is the logical continuation of previous Democratic policies. And now our third world nation will keep sinking lower and lower into the swamp.
The Democrats will feign "resistance" and then will allow it to go with with some Dem support from those who really do not care about showing where they really stand. These people are evil. They only care about themselves and do not care about we the people. Plenty of money for wars, but nothing for the citizens of this country.
Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy
Yeah I remember when Obama tried his sneak attack
on SS and Medicare. He tried to do it during the Christmas break when no one was paying attention. It was ironic that we were saved by the sociopath GOP. But now it appears it was just a delay.
Donnie The #ShitHole Douchebag. Fake Friend to the Working Class. Real Asshole.
Bingo
In 2014, the "left wing" Pacifica station I was listening too routinely had people on calling Obama the "Deporter in Chief" due to his draconian immigration policies and actions.
Did most Obama supporters decry Obama then, or even today? Or are they only focused upon Trump's horrific actions while they still give Obama a pass?
He is black = untouchable
in today's identity politics only (D) Party.
I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.
That's too simplistic and therefore too inaccurate
. . . an explanation. That might be part of it, but it also had much more to do with party tribalism and the fact that the corporate media gave Obama a pass on a lot of these things such that most Democrats didn't even know he was involved in these things (because too many Americans still get their propaganda from what the corporate/establishment media tells them or doesn't tell them.)
Obama was a conman (and here, I'm being kind, as I can think of much worse things to call him.) An attractive, intelligent and smooth talking, and slick appearing conman. But a conman, nonetheless.
Yes and no
I was constantly accused of being a racist when I criticized Obama for doing the same things that Bush did. I'm still seeing people being accused of being misogynists and sexist when they bring up Hillary's policies on ToP. Someone recently asked why Hillary wasn't being sexist when she didn't endorse Nixon and they got hr'd into a banning. So while I see your point, I see the voice in the wilderness' point too.
Which AIPAC/MIC/pharma/bank bought politician are you going to vote for? Don’t be surprised when nothing changes.
I'm not sure why you would even take such
accusations seriously or care enough about them enough to want to keep your mouth shut.
If such people used such accusations against me I'd call them out for being LIARS and SLANDERERS and then tell them to fuck off.
In short, I would attack them for being dishonest, deceitful, and deranged.
Fuck those LYING "identity politics" assholes. They are a scourge upon our nation, they work for the ruling classes, and they should be called out and shamed at every opportunity for being the LYING and DERANGED scum they are.
Perhaps your real problem is that you give any time at all to TOP. That place is a cesspool of propaganda and deception on behalf of the "D" side of the ruling class duopoly. It is full of liars, propagandists, shills, and bought and paid for establishment whores.
The fact that they overestimate their power and influence is shown by the fact that Hillary lost to the orange bozo in spite of all the resources the D side spent, and the fact that their Alexa rankings have steadily dropped over the past two years.
Who takes those shit-eaters seriously anymore??
Yes, at this late point I assume
they are just to f'n dumb to learn any lesson from the obvious.
Or they are enjoying the hell out of the normalization of racism, xenophobia, and misogyny.
Donnie The #ShitHole Douchebag. Fake Friend to the Working Class. Real Asshole.
Maybe that IS the plan
Following up on Jay Gould's claim that he could get half the population to kill the other half (and lather, rinse, repeat until only "enough" slaves survive).
You think they're not capable of it? All they have to do is piously wash their hands and lament the "violence" of the lower classes...while doing nothing effective to stop it.
There is no justice. There can be no peace.
Wrong question.
Why does it matter if this shit is okay with Trump supporters or not? Suppose they "wake up." Where are they going to go? The Democrats? The same Democrats who's President appointed the Catfood Commission to investigate cuts to Social Security? And how many Democrats today, by the way, who would never dream of supporting cuts to Social Security, still think Obama is a good guy? Did they ever "wake up" to the reality of Obama? How many of these same Democrats tune into shows like "Real Time," where people like Bill Maher assure them that things would have been so much better if Hillary was President today and that the only real problem with the system is Trump and the Republicans?
All assertions to the contrary notwithstanding, Americans live under a tyranny of the super rich. Both parties are instruments of that tyranny, each playing its respective role in that "good cop/bad cop" scam, and each party fooling its respective constituency into thinking the other party is the real enemy and that if "their party" gets in, things will be different and better for them.
(BTW, here's a nice little essay--I believe written before Obama was first elected, yet predicting much of what Obama and the Democrats ended up doing once in office--that explains the Democrats' specific role in this scam:
http://stopmebeforeivoteagain.org/stopme/chapter02.html )
The real question--the only relevant question--is when are enough Americans going to wake to the fact that they are slaves at the mercy of a political system that serves only the super wealthy and the super connected, no matter which party appears to be in control? When are they going to wake up to the fact that the whole system treats them as no more than disposable and irrelevant subjects and slaves; that it exists to manipulate, exploit, and oppress them for the sake of the few on top, and that they have no real say in the way their government works?
Until Americans wake up to this reality--and this may NEVER happen, possibly because Americans themselves as a general population are too spoiled, tribalistic, selfish, short-sighted, materialistic, uneducated, dumbed down, corrupted, stupid, distracted, brainwashed, etc.--NOTHING IS GOING TO CHANGE in this country in favor of the people.
NOTHING.
Meanwhile, the suckers will continue to delude themselves that they live in "the greatest country on earth," the so called "land of the free and home of the brave," . . . while becoming more and more materially, intellectually, and culturally impoverished, and continuing to send their kids off to die in unnecessary wars that serve the interests of only those on top.
I think you are correct...
well stated!
“Until justice rolls down like water and righteousness like a mighty stream.”
excuses excuses excuses
Millions of people are supporting Trump's inanity that's tearing this country apart and they won't take responsibility for it. Why is it so damn OK with so many irresponsible Americans that Rick Perry is in charge of the Department of Energy, Betsy Devos is in charge of the Department of Education, Ben Carson is in charge of HUD, Scott Pruitt was in charge of the EPA and on and on and on. They're all corrupt incompetents and Trump appointed them. Take some damn responsibility for what you're doing to America Trump fanatics.
Beware the bullshit factories.
Just like millions of people supported Obama's
bullshit . . . that let fraudsters on Wall Street go free, that persecuted whistle blowers, that normalized illegal spying, that turned two wars into seven wars, that made the rich richer, that threw 5 million people out of their homes, that extended Bush tax cuts for the wealthy, that . . . . .
Need I go on?
From where I sit
Timmethy2.0
It pretty much looks like both the past 2 prez elections
rendered any resistance futile. Both parties are aligned
against the people and it's fairly quite in the open how
bad things are
Only a revolution by the people will let us govern for
the people, any overthrow as has already happened CIA/FBI/MIC
that becomes publicized such as the R's gaining control of all
branches plus 37+ states that lead to a constitutional conv.
which will lead us to hell.
The minority of the minority already control most everything
I never knew that the term "Never Again" only pertained to
those born Jewish
"Antisemite used to be someone who didn't like Jews
now it's someone who Jews don't like"
Heard from Margaret Kimberley
Just like millions of people supported Obama's
bullshit . . . that let fraudsters on Wall Street go free, that persecuted whistle blowers, that normalized illegal spying, that turned two wars into seven wars, that overthrew the democracy in Honduras, that led to a coup in Ukraine, that started American intervention in Syria, that made the rich richer, that made it legal for the government to propagandize its own citizenry, that threw 5 million people out of their homes, that extended Bush tax cuts for the wealthy, that . . . . . (Need I go on?)
How many people ever woke up to these things, and yet are still Obama supporters today, and still insist that we should support the Democrats as some kind of corrective to the Trump and the Republicans?
Because they have been brainwashed
that government workers are lazy incompetent workers and government programs only benefit lazy worthless criminal welfare loafers.
It's all in the voters internal framework.
I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.
The only way out is to abandon the Duopoly
Dems and Repubs are both corporate whore neoliberal parties.
May I suggest the Green alternative.
Donnie The #ShitHole Douchebag. Fake Friend to the Working Class. Real Asshole.
Actually, what this country needs is a whole new Constitution
How that comes about, is the 64 million dollar question.
It certainly needs a modern constitution.
We now know where the current pre-industrial, human rights-free, slave-owner constitution leads.
I don't think it's possible, though. The American people are too mentally broken from a lifetime of propaganda and division. The very best hope is that the US breaks apart into six or nine regional-based nations, where the people can be closer and take more control over their governments. People deserve representation and the leadership of a government of their own design.
____________________
The political system is what it is because the People are who they are. — Plato
I don't think the Constitution is the problem
even if it it's outmoded and creaky.
Voters who don't think and only listen to TV/radio rich-owned media are the problem.
Democracy can't exist with an ignorant electorate.
I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.
@The Voice In the Wilderness
Who do smart people, who don't watch TV, vote for when their only choices are Evil 1 & Evil 2?
Maybe they just don't vote, and spend their
time in more productive--both political and non-political--activities.
At least, that's one possibility.
Read an interesting fact the other day on US presidents' wealth
George Washington was worth $525 million when he became president.
Kennedy was worth $1 billion and he was not the progressive president that people make him out to be. I have been searching for an article that shows that he was just as neoliberal as Obama.
Which AIPAC/MIC/pharma/bank bought politician are you going to vote for? Don’t be surprised when nothing changes.
After I visited Mt. Vernon, my eyes were opened.
After visiting that plantation, I realized that Washington was a capitalist to his core. He was the largest holder of property in Virginia and one of the largest owners of property in the 13 colonies. In fact, in his service to the King of Britain, he always insisted upon being paid in property, and accumulated much land in the process.
He married a rich woman.
Washington LOVED material wealth, and I suspect it guided just about everything he did. I suspect he realized that things would be better for him in a country free from British rule, in terms of his own fortunes. This is is probably one of the reasons that he participated in the rebellion against Britain.
I was always taught about how noble Washington was because he only was willing to serve two terms as President. Well, when I went to Mount Vernon, I saw WHY he was only willing to serve two terms. Washington was a businessman, and his plantation needed him around to run it. The fact that he was president and the affairs of state took him away from his material wealth and its management. (In that sense, it truly was a sacrifice on his part for him to become President, because it meant less time that he could devote to his business enterprises at Mt. Vernon.)
Let's also remember that it was Washington that called for the first Constitutional convention. The reason he did this was that Shay's Rebellion scared him and other super wealthy people into the realization that their wealth and privilege were at risk and at the mercy of strong, popular uprising. Thus, he and members of his wealthy class, needed a new, strong, centralized government to protect their interests against things like popular rebellions and the "democratic" calls for things like "leveling" that existed in the new, independent states.
That's why I get a kick out of these religious right types who show Washington on his knees, praying to God. In my opinion, Washington had a "god" that he bowed down and worshipped. However, that "god" bore more of a resemblance to $$$$$ than to anything spoken of in the pages of the Bible.
George Washington was actually John Galt? Who knew? n/t
Don't think so.
Washington never participated a strike with his fellow elites to deprive the country of their supposedly wonderful and indispensable talents.
Rather, he did one better. He got a whole new governmental system established in which the rules favored him and the members of his class, all under the guise of "amending" the Articles of Confederation. (See, there was deception involved in this as well.)
I was thinking of the closing scene of “Atlas Shrugged”
where John Galt makes the sign of the dollar in the air with his hand, like the Pope giving a pastoral blessing.
It's sad isn't it when the blinders fall from our eyes
like when we found out that Santa Clause wasn't real. Excellent report on who and what Washington was and why he wanted free from British rule. Jefferson was a racist POS. His policies towards the Native Americans were the start of the genocide. I doubt that there was one president that put people's needs before the needs of the wealthy. We know FDR only created the New Deal to save his and his cronies' asses from being BBQ'd. II only started paying attention to politics when Reagan was elected and I'm not sure that any of them did anything that benefited my life. Someone correct me if I'm wrong .....
Which AIPAC/MIC/pharma/bank bought politician are you going to vote for? Don’t be surprised when nothing changes.
We thought it was Santa Claus
Turned out it was Jeff Bezos and his army of elves, toiling away at your local Amazon Triangle Shirtwaist Factory and Fulfilment Center.
Have you found the article yet?
I recall some unusual research, that's come to light.
____________________
The political system is what it is because the People are who they are. — Plato
I found the JFK article
This was written after Joe's SOTU address rebuttal by Paul Street, one of my favorite writers.
Joe Kennedy III, a False Progressive Idol Like JFK
I am guilty of saying that the country changed course when Kennedy was assassinated and calling his murder a coup. I've read that he was killed because he wanted detente with Russia and that he wanted to break the CIA into a thousand pieces, but was that even true? (guess I'll look into it) brb.....
Which AIPAC/MIC/pharma/bank bought politician are you going to vote for? Don’t be surprised when nothing changes.
Maybe not
The Real Story Behind That JFK Quote About Destroying the CIA
The funny thing is that Wikileaks used the quote as the password to decrypt its latest release about CIA spy tools. Vault 7?
Which AIPAC/MIC/pharma/bank bought politician are you going to vote for? Don’t be surprised when nothing changes.
Pluto, here another article on Washington
How Washington wound up screwing the Native Americans
This is hysterical how he is seen as respecting them.
Let me know if you see the article on JFK you asked for, mkay?
Which AIPAC/MIC/pharma/bank bought politician are you going to vote for? Don’t be surprised when nothing changes.
Respect, as in Hillary always carrying hot sauce in her purse
as an empathetic abuela should.
Hillary-ous indeed.
Thanks for posting those references
.... .
I was reading about JFK and Henry Cabot Lodge Jr. JFK had beat Lodge for his senate seat. Kennedy was on his way to the top. As President, Kennedy appointed Lodge to what would become a controversial role as the American ambassador to South Vietnam in August 1963, two months before his assassination. Kennedy and Lodge were both members of the Council on Foreign Relations, so war was definitely in America's future regardless of who won the election. The CFR had all but taken over the State Department by the 1950s. Eisenhower witnessed the power coup at State during his presidency; it was this view that made Eisenhower wary of the Military Industrial Complex, which essentially defines who the CFR represents. Meanwhile, another CFR member, Henry Kissinger, was now their rising star.
It's likely Kennedy would have naturally entered the war, just as LBJ did. He would have been comfortable with the idea of a US Empire. He was comfortable provoking Russia. Membership in the CFR would have blurred party lines for Kennedy when it came to international goals. This excerpt is from a treatise published in the mid-70s describing the CFR of those times:
Comparing 1976 to 2018, I'd say the CFR is now more deeply intertwined in government. If one analyzes political issues and foreign policy from this perspective, many things become clear. There is nothing to be done but adapt, while promoting the nationalizing of the banks in a time of crisis. Let's make that "thinkable" and make bailouts unthinkable. Iceland provides a good example. Then, the people will have control of the nation's excess wealth, and they can rescue everyone.
I'm still looking for the JFK paper I mentioned earlier. I believe it had something to do with the unusual circumstances of the Warren Commission, most of whom happened to be CFR members.
____________________
The political system is what it is because the People are who they are. — Plato
Excellent post, Pluto
I have known about the CFR and its involvement in our affairs, but didn't realize how far back they went.
This further shows that congress and the presidency are just figureheads in running the government and that more than one secretive groups are running the show. Them and the many billionaires and foreign countries who set the agenda and not only for this country.
Which AIPAC/MIC/pharma/bank bought politician are you going to vote for? Don’t be surprised when nothing changes.
Nothing changes
I know I've mentioned this before, but what you just posted explains a comment Putin made to Oliver Stone in the Putin Interview series. Stone asks Putin who he favors in the 2016 American presidential election. Putin answers that he has no favorite and that, "It doesn't matter who the president of the US is, nothing changes. No matter who is elected, nothing changes."
Now we can see why nothing changes.
JFK was a warhawk
Eisenhower was a Colonel in WW I and Supreme Allied Commander in WW II. He got the Nation the truce they wanted in Korea and stayed out of Vietnam. He knew war.
JFK lost the PT109 by disobeying standing orders to keep the engines running at all times. Because he disobeyed that order, they couldn't get out of the way of the Japanese ship that rammed them. His Admiral wanted to court martial him, but his family was too politically powerful, so they sent him home with a medal. Look at his life - Marilyn Monroe, goading Russia into the Cuban missile crisis by putting nuclear IRBM's in Turkey, sending troops to Vietnam. There was a BIG streak of reckless conduct. The Kennedy's did some good things but they did a lot of bad/reckless things too. If JFK hadn't been assassinated, I believe he would have been a one term President. My guess is he got reckless with the CIA. Every President since has kissed their ass.
I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.
Interesting points
Funny how these patterns keep repeating. Like NATO pushing East all the way to Russia's border. Ukraine was the Cuban Missile Crisis. Crimea was the Bay of Pigs.
____________________
The political system is what it is because the People are who they are. — Plato
I think six or nine separate regionally based nations
. . . would be a good start. It is too undemocratic to have the main, overarching locus of power for a country as large as the United States to be centered in one city.
Of course, there are many powerful interests that would oppose such a scheme, likely because their own wealth, privileges and prerogatives would be diminished or put at risk of diminishment.
To begin with, imperialists and those that benefit from imperialism wouldn't like it too much.
Maybe a European Union kind of setup
There would have to be some work done to keep these new mini-Americas from going to war with each other at some point in the distant future and to guarantee some some basic rights across the continent.
Beware the bullshit factories.
No European Union set up.
The EU has been nothing other than undemocratic, and has done nothing other than quash the rights of the 99% for the benefit of the 1%. A lot of Europeans resent it, especially those that are poorer and that have gotten screwed the most by it: Greece, Ireland, Italy, Portugal and Spain.
Perhaps a permanent non agression treaty among the new nations and some kind of a new, "international" dispute resolution body between the new nations based upon binding arbitration. That's about it. Other than that let them loose as independent states
undemocratic EUwwww
Don't forget the Anglo-Welsh working classes!
"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar
"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides
What about common defense
What if a new Hitler somewhere sees 9 weak Americas instead of 1 strong one and decides to conquer them all.
Beware the bullshit factories.
I have very little concern that answers to such
questions wouldn't be easily worked out. At the very least, give each of the new countries a proportionate share of the nuclear stock pile. If it solely "defense" (as opposed to imperialistic domination) one is worried about, I'm sure that in and of itself would be enough a deterrent to keep any "new Hitler" from truly threatening any these new countries.
Oh, and by the way, Hitler rose in power through help from the United States. It was the U.S. that interfered in WWI, helping to defeat the Germans and setting the stage for the Nazis. And it was American industrialists that helped Hitler build his "Third Reich" during the 1930s.
If Hitler saw 9 mini-America's across the pond
He would have been salivating like a rabid dog. Eastern and Western Europe really didn't have much fun being conquered by Nazis, but they sure did like the American Antifa that freed them:
[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZglNj7FD_U]
Trump killed any remnants of that. The next Hitler isn't going to be German or a Nazi.
Beware the bullshit factories.
I'm not so sure I buy all the propaganda about
Hitler that I've been fed in this society throughout my life. I'm not saying he was a good guy, but I've seen the powers-that-be in this country lie to me about just about everything in this country, including major aspects of American history like the reasons for the ratification of the United States Constitution and who's interests it really served.
I was lied to about the characters and motivations of the Founding Fathers and Framers of the Constitution. I was lied to about why the Union fought the Civil War. I was lied to about the United States being a "democracy." I was lied to about the sinking of the Maine and the sinking of the Lusitania. I was lied to about the U.S. entrance into WWI. I was lied to about how Hitler built up his war machine all on his own, without the help from other western countries (Did you know, for example, that Ambassador Joseph Kennedy, at the time the 6th richest man in the U.S., much of the time he was in England, was calling back to D.C. trying to encourage Roosevelt to forge an alliance with Hitler as opposed abiding by the alliance with Britain?) I was also taught the United States beat the Germans in WWII, when actually it was the Soviets that did the lion's share of the "defeating" of the Third Reich.
They've also lied to me about Viet Nam, about Iran's history, about Saddam Hussein in both Gulf Wars, about the "free market," and about the virtues of trickle down economics and tax cuts for the rich.
They lied to me about the reasons for the Cold War.
They've lied to me about the history of the founding of the modern-day state of Israel.
They're still lying to me about JFK's death and about 9-11.
Why should I automatically believe anything the powers-that-be in the United States taught me about WWII or take any of it at face value? Like I said, I'm not saying Hitler was any kind of a virtuous person, but it is possible that we as westerners have been fed a black and white cartoon of Hitler, and that the actual truth is a lot more complicated than the simple notion that Hitler was solely motivated by a desire to take over the world. (In fact, this may be a form of United States projection, given the fact that U.S. foreign policy since WWII has largely been motivated by nothing other than a desire to take over the whole world, and to crush anyone that stands in its way. After all, why do you think Putin and Russia are now in the cross-hairs with all sorts of lies about them being told? It's because they won't kow-tow to American agendas and they show independence from the United States and its vassals in conducting their affairs. Also, ever hear of something called "full spectrum dominance?")
I refuse to swallow anything anymore at face value, especially if it came from or comes from the powers-that-be that run the show here.
I agree completely.
In freshman political science in the mid-1960s, a major theme was called “The Power of Secret-Knowing.”
The core idea was, a huge amount of power derives from knowing things nobody else knows, and also from knowing everything anybody else might be trying to keep hidden.
It follows that being in possession of the only true account of past events and the only true picture of the current state of affairs would be pretty central to gaining, keeping, and maximizing power, yes?
So although sourcing is sketchy, it would be only logical and not at all surprising if CIA director William J. Casey really did say the words widely attributed to him on the Web: “We’ll know our disinformation program is complete [or: has succeeded] when everything the American public believes is false.”
Outstanding comment!
Only a fool lets someone else tell him who his enemy is. Assata Shakur
So why the nuclear stockpiles?
To protect ourselves from ourselves?
Nah, nuclear weapons need to be banned forever on this planet.
We could write that in our new constitutions.
I was answering his question that
expressed concern over the "defense" of any new countries that came out of the current United States.
My only point is that a nuclear arsenal is quite a deterrent against attack when one is concerned solely with defending one's own country against foreign attack. If Saddam or Libya had had nuclear weapons, do you think the United States would have attacked their countries? Why do you think the United States is very reluctant to attack Russia today, even going so far as to put on "retaliation for show" after the last alleged Syrian chemical attack, one that used over 100 cruise missiles but that didn't harm any Russian assets and didn't kill anyone?
So do you think considering the nature of the human race
that abolishing nuclear weapons is impractical?
I don't. I think it can be done and has to be done along with all war and imperialism. If we can't do that we're fucked even more than we know.
joe shikspak featured a piece by Yanis Varoufakis
and I watched others of his speeches as well. This one about the history of the European Union down to the time when his was a minister in Greece and they were terminally screwed is very much worth listening when coming to a conclusion about the merits of the EU.
A truth of the nuclear age/climate change: we can no longer have endless war and survive on this planet. Oh sh*t.
One thing I like about the EU
Is the Charter of Fundamental Rights which goes far beyond our Bill of Rights:
- The right to human dignity
- The right to life (no executions allowed)
- The right to integrity of person (Everyone has the right to respect for his or her physical and mental integrity.)
- Prohibition of Torture (No one shall be subjected to torture or to inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment.)
- Prohibition of Slavery and forced labor
- Right to liberty and security
- Respect for family life
- Protection of personal data
- Right to marry and found a family
- Freedom of thought, conscience and religion
- Freedom of expression and information
- Freedom of assembly and of association
- Freedom of the arts and sciences
- Right to education
- Freedom to choose an occupation and right to engage in work
- Freedom to conduct a business
- Right to property
- Right to asylum
- ........-The rights of the elderly.....Workers' right to information and consultation within the undertaking...Right of collective bargaining and action...Fair and just working conditions...
and so forth and so on and then the piece de resistance:
A lot of this was influenced by FDR's plan for a "New Bill Of Rights". FDR's very capable people were heavily involved in developing post war Europe and Japan.
Beware the bullshit factories.
The idea that Hawaiian isles need to be ruled by a government
a vast ocean and a huge continent away, does seem to be a holdover from a bygone era of racialist paternalism and naked imperialism.
Goddamned right.
Best be very, very careful
advocating for that. We are still ruled by a rabid right wing, and yes, I am WELL AWARE of the Democrats positions as well. BUT, we are now going to full Right Wing mode here, and allowing our owners to have a Constitutional Convention could be one hell of a lot worse. While we all love to blame both sides, these bastards already have almost enough state legislatures to call for a Constitutional Convention. Think any real progressives or whatever we want to call them with human needs in mind will be invited to that little confab? I don't. The Democrats are shit but I for one would not be happy under full Libertarian Dominionism and we may be a lot closer to that than we think - we have people in this country and even on the "left" who think that might be an actual improvement for God's sake. And all we need do is look to those same slimy Democrats to realize they would not do one thing to stop that as they're on the same side!
Only a fool lets someone else tell him who his enemy is. Assata Shakur
The age old fear of a constitutional convention
has been the right wingers will take it over and mold a new system to their will.
Well, maybe. But then, maybe not.
But at this point, I'm not even sure a constitutional convention is the answer. Rather, we need a whole new governmental system, with a new constitution.
It seems as if you are still looking to the same politicians and interests ("our owners" as you put it)--both R and D--that keep the current system going, to be the ones to reform or rewrite the new system.
I'm proposing a new constitution that bypasses the current governmental structures. Perhaps that means are real revolution first. Anything less, than one is just handing the same political class that runs things the same power to run things in the future.
If "the little people" are too stupid or too unorganized to fight for their own interests in such a situation, then so be it. They will get what they deserve. At least we will have fascism or totalitarianism out front, and legislated in black and white terms for all to see, instead of what we have now, with the system masquerading as some kind of "democracy" under "the rule of law."
Nope, I'm certainly NOT looking
for any R or D to save this system, I fully agree this system needs to go down, meaning major reforms to it, ie, socialism. I'm simply saying our owners have all the power they need to fully codify corporate rule over the globe now, they're almost there. Certainly, under the guise of the Repugnant Right Wing but politics don't matter to these people, they just use that on us. But the Koch brothers would like nothing more than a CC to get their agenda passed and we should be very careful of any such talk about the Constitution for that reason alone. While both "sides" are part of the ownership class, I fully admit to genuinely fearing the more radical elements of the right wing. To me, they own this agenda, even as I know how naïve it is of me to think of it in such terms. I grew up with these people so I certainly am biased there.
Only a fool lets someone else tell him who his enemy is. Assata Shakur
So, you are essentially saying that you are
powerless in the face of the wealthy and powerful and their attempts to get their way. If that's the case, then fuck it. We DON'T need a new constitution. Let's just keep the present one as it defends the interests of the wealthy and powerful just fine the way it is.
There's nothing that can be done in the face of the wealthy and powerful.
As I said, if the little people are "too stupid" and "too unorganized" to effectively advocate for their own interests against the wealthy and powerful, then they DESERVE what they get--under our present system or under any new one that comes along.
I didn't see that lizzy said anything like that
Reread her comment to see what she actually said.. but as to you thinking that we the people have the power to overthrow our government, I beg to differ. They have all the toys to keep any type of revolutionary act from gaining traction and we have seen how willing they are to use them. Just look at what happened to OWS, the BLM and DAPL protests to see just how willing they were to go to any lengths to shut them down. DAPL security was overseen by many different law enforcement agencies, but what was worse is that they were overseen by a private mercenary company.
Then there's all the states that are basically making protesting illegal. Step one foot over the line and you are off to prison. Did you follow what happened to the people who protested Trumps inauguration? People who were not even part of the protests were arrested and charged with felony rioting. They then spent time and money on their defense and many lost their jobs and their homes. Fortunately the jurors found them not guilty, but who even knows if people will be charged next time? Obama left Trump with the power to arrest people for no reason and keep them locked up indefinitely without charges or access to a lawyer.
So what is your plan to get around these actions to get a new constitution? I'm open to it unless it entails protesting because that avenue is closed to us. We've sat placidly in their kettle of water while they kept turning up the heat on it.
Which AIPAC/MIC/pharma/bank bought politician are you going to vote for? Don’t be surprised when nothing changes.
IT goes back to my original post on this thread
under "wrong question."
There has to be some mass kind of change of thinking first about the current system.
And this may never happen.
Until that happens, there's no point in talking about revolution or a new constitution.
Thanks for bringing this up
If you recall I asked about this in last week's EBs as to why Europe was turning to the right and IIRC it is because of the flood of immigrants. (?)
But this country was full of far right people who started exposing themselves long before the recent stories about what Trump was doing to them. This problem started after he became president and exploded after he looked like he was giving them his permission for violence. Did Europe turn before their immigration problems too?
Which AIPAC/MIC/pharma/bank bought politician are you going to vote for? Don’t be surprised when nothing changes.
The Math of the Ratchet:
Here's a piece by Thomas Piketty that gets into the math of the ratchet. I think this piece is pretty friggin' amazing. The equation is, perhaps, a good place to try to attach the ratchet to a Leftier point on the political spectrum.
http://piketty.pse.ens.fr/files/Piketty2018.pdf
“Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat.” ~ Sun Tzu
I love the way it describes how the two parties work together
to further the corporate demands from them. This is the equivalent to being the Washington Generals to the Harlem Globetrotters. The Generals pretend to want to win the game, but the Globetrotters are just a better team than they are. Then we have the referees who turn a blind eye to the fouls that the Globetrotters make.
This is the same concept of how the republicans can put the brakes on any legislation that the democrats want to pass when the republicans are the minority party, but when the republicans are the majority then the democrats are helpless to stop them. Or the democrats will change the rules just before the republicans take control. This is so effing obvious to anyone who is paying attention,, but for some reason people who vote for the democrats don't see it. Harry Reid changed the filibuster rules out of the blue for no reason that made any sense. Until one knows how it's just theater!
Which AIPAC/MIC/pharma/bank bought politician are you going to vote for? Don’t be surprised when nothing changes.
Nailed it.
I've just bookmarked this comment so I can send its contents far and wide (along with the Ratchet essay you linked to) in the run-up to the midterms.
First on my list: my father and his wife, both of whom fall squarely into the "Democrats [who] tune into shows like "Real Time," where people like Bill Maher assure them that things would have been so much better if Hillary was President today and that the only real problem with the system is Trump and the Republicans?" camp. It's painful for me to talk politics with them, because Rachael is their go-to authority.
Fuck.
It’s interesting that something all workers pay into
becomes an “entitlement” once it comes time to collect that money at retirement. My husband and I pay every month for our “free” basic Medicare, too. That’s the thing with the wealthy. Once they get their hands on your money, it’s theirs.
"The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power. Now do you begin to understand me?" ~Orwell, "1984"
That has always ticked me off too
"Entitlements"
Um, hell yes, we're entitled to our own damn money! And so is everyone else, even Trump and Hillary voters. Makes me livid!
Waiting until after elections to do it is a really sleazy, yet strategic plan too. Kudos to them for playing dirty, I guess.
Why is the word "entitlement" bad?
It means something is owed by someone
to somethingto someone else.YES, I'm entitled to my SS. I've followed the rules and paid in for 50 years and so did my employers.
I'm damn well entitled to that which I've paid for. Entitlement doesn't mean the same thing as charity.
EDIT: Correction. Many a slip between brain and keyboard.
I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.
It's also an example of the work of Koch funded think tanks
A lot of money was spent to get people to start using the word "entitlement" to refer to Social Security and Medicare and any other "earned benefit" the Kochs want to strip from people and maybe privatize. Just like George Orwell implied, if you control the language you control the people.
Beware the bullshit factories.
Right. They have the masses equating "entitlement"
with as welfare.
You know, the welfare queens pumping out babies to increase their welfare checks. Then sitting on the couch drinking wine all month waiting for their next check. /snark
It's all about messaging.
Donnie The #ShitHole Douchebag. Fake Friend to the Working Class. Real Asshole.
One correction
The fable doesn't have them drinking wine but smoking crack.
I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.
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