Two more things Medicare-for-all won't cure: Robbie the Robot and the insider wallet raiding

A recent essay by The Aspie Corner about "how the Professional Class Kills Desire for Decent Employment" spurred a comment by me along the same vein (artery?)

https://caucus99percent.com/comment/267482#comment-267482

Employers keep telling us there aren't enough people graduating with the right skills, which even basic research would tell anyone willing to look into it that the bosses are full of shit.

In medicine, at least as administered in the good ole US, we have this sham called maintenance of certification (MOC) which applies to all clinical disciplines and some (most?) of the non-clinical ones. This is in the discipline in which a person is certified to practice, through one of the accredited Boards of Medical Specialties, must PROVE they are capable to practice their specialty. That requirement is in addition to the required number of continuing medical education (CME) hours each state annually requires to maintain a medical license. These MOC classes ain't cheap. Who receives the fees for such testing? If you said the specialty board requiring such testing, then you win the prize.

I wish to expound on that as a way to illustrate that medicine will not be purged of evil by Medicare-for-all/single-payer (MFA) any more than the demise of Medusa will purge the Democratic party of corruption.

MFA is THE WILL of the people, though not the establishment. Adoption of MFA will cure 90% of what's wrong with medicine--but there will be perhaps 10%, or perhaps more, requiring eliminating before we can say that "the house is in order". Big Pharma ties to FDA and similar issues make up a large chunk of the remainder. A smaller chunk, MOC, as alluded to above makes up a smaller but significant chunk leading to elevated fees, even under a government-implemented plan.

This is the hypocrisy of American Medicine authored by a practicing physician, writing in KevinMD is an excellent, though per force incomplete statement of some of the faults in medicine which may survive the change to MFA:

Physicians and patients are fighting a growing hypocrisy in American medicine. Examples abound, such as criticism that doctors are overprescribing antibiotics and contributing to resistance, while insurance companies simultaneously incentivize their members to use telemedicine programs or urgent cares instead of visiting their primary care physician.

Telemedicine, or putting you life in the hands of Robbie the Robot is about as impersonal and flawed as medicine can be. Basically a patient communicates with a physician, or nurse, or physician's assistant or the receptionist--whomever is on the other side of the Skype. The physician (assuming you get the best of the tele-offerings) will then see you and hear you. But the physician cannot smell, touch or witness the small mannerisms or hear the verbal nuances afforded by telecommunications. Admittedly Robbie the Robot interactions may be necessary in regions far removed from actual physician location, but this is numerically a very small proportion of the population so bereft of actual proximity to "real" doctors.

The examinations provided to patients are severely limited. Let's say a "back patient", i.e., somebody with a lower lumbar issue, which in fact may not be spinal at all, is tele-examined (a horrible but real issue). The remote examiner will likely ask the individual to stand up, bend forward and touch his/her toes. Maybe even watch the person walk (almost always wearing shoes, which conceal a variety of issues). But the back examination is far more complex that that simplified, glaringly incomplete evaluation can provide. If I were to deal with the proper examination of the back, it would require a book chapter written for physicians, to validly deal with this malapropism of "Telemedicine".

Another quote from this fine article, all of which needs reading to fully appreciate is:

Another example of hypocrisy in American medicine is the mandate that physicians who have trained for 11-plus years maintain board certification, a costly and burdensome program, to receive hospital privileges while nurses become “Doctors of Nurse Practice” through 100 percent online programs and become credentialed for independent practice in many states. Why even bother going to medical school and incurring hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt when para-physician programs abound with far less requirements and regulations?

Moving on. More detail on MOC

Family medicine is the medical specialty that provides continuing, comprehensive health care for the individual and family. It is a specialty in breadth that integrates the biological, clinical and behavioral sciences. The scope of family medicine encompasses all ages, both sexes, each organ system, and every disease entity. When you or a family member needs health care or medical treatment, you want a highly qualified doctor dedicated to providing outstanding care. When you choose a doctor who is board-certified, you can be confident he or she meets nationally recognized standards for education, knowledge, experience, and skills to provide high-quality care in a specific medical specialty.

The following excerpt is also applicable to any medical discipline, not just family practice.

I believe in those who practice a “womb-to-tomb” approach in providing continuity of care for an individual throughout their life cycle.

In my particular case, epilepsy, multiple sclerosis, spinal disabilities, psst-traumatic psychosocial issues (and more, all of which I have personally treated) do simply not go away, such as a sore throat.
Although most of the neurologic/neurosurgical disorders with which I dealt with during a 38+ year career, do not begin at birth, I applied that belief in consistency of follow-up from date of incidence to date of death. Yes, I am a medical dinosaur, as are a minority of currently practicing physicians do not have the same belief/practice.

What is wrong with MOC exams also shares many of the problems of Robbie the Robot medicine:

the [MOC] exam itself in no way measured the diversity of skills required of an excellent family physician. Over three hundred multiple choice questions each providing a few data and clinical points about a particular patient and based on that limited information, the test taker is asked to choose the “best” evidence-based treatment option or “most likely” diagnosis. Absent are the nuances of patient demeanor in the exam room or how they respond on history-taking, the subtleties of a hands-on physical assessment. No information was provided about whether this particular patient has a family involved in their care, or what finances they have to afford the “best” treatment option when insurance won’t cover, or their willingness to comply with what is recommended. A phone app could easily answer these exam questions with a search that takes less than twenty seconds, yet our cell phones were taken away and locked up. Your test content implies a family physician has to know all the details, the numbers and the drug interactions committed to memory without the benefit of the technology tools we, along with many of our patients, use every day.

Now, honing onto the MOC comes another view of its worthlessness. This is where the wallet raiding comes in:

Maintenance of certification (MOC) for something as significant as the practice of medicine seems like a harmless enough idea. But for physicians across the country who dedicate thousands of hours to study, earn licensure, achieve board certification, and practice medicine, MOC is not only unnecessary but also a resource-consuming mandate that does nothing to improve patient outcomes and quality of care.

According to the American Board of Medical Specialty’s (ABMS’) own website: “Board certification is a voluntary process, and one that is very different from medical licensure … Board certification demonstrates a physician’s exceptional expertise in a particular specialty and/or subspecialty of medical practice.” In other words, physicians who pursue board certification self-identify as professionals committed to ongoing learning and subject-matter mastery...

The Medical Credentialing System in 2014 reported revenues of more than $2.5 billion — $1 billion of which is attributed to ABMS entities alone. The American Board of Internal Medicine (ABIM) is the largest of ABMS’ credentialing agencies and is responsible for credentialing one-quarter of all physicians.

Drilling down further into those numbers is eye-opening. ABIM reports $58 million in revenue for 2015, nearly $27 million of which came from MOC fees. With $30 million spent on salaries and benefits that year and only $6.3 million on actually administering the MOC, one could easily draw the conclusion that the push for MOC is nothing more than self-serving largesse. Well, that and the luxury three-bedroom condominium purchased in downtown Philadelphia in December 2007. The money these boards collect and spend — on expenses like first-class, cross-country airfare for their staff — just adds to physicians’ ire over MOC mandates.

In California, at least, being board certified is mandatory to practice in a hospital under your specialty. For neurosurgeons, this meant that if your board certification was not up to date, you could not operate.

The future of medicine? Prognosis bleak.

[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZMmV6xXYFw]

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riverlover's picture

I have had other NPs and nurses exclaim she is a good nurse. Still doing clinicals to pick her specialty. Not too interested in family practice. She will do a clinical with our local infectious disease person, I am trying to encourage that. A growing need, I think, if we escape nuclear war.

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Hey! my dear friends or soon-to-be's, JtC could use the donations to keep this site functioning for those of us who can still see the life preserver or flotsam in the water.

Alligator Ed's picture

@riverlover I met a former colleague who was an ICU nurse for >20 years whom I respected more than most MDs who saw patients in the ICU. The title does not equal quality of practice. When I checked on my ICU patients, the first thing I would do would be to check with the ICU nurse taking care of the patient--before reading usually illegible progress note written by attending physicians. The nurse was invariably correct in her/his observations. Many physicians were either condescending to the informed opinions of ICU nurses or downright dismissive of them. This did not contribute to good medical care. Nurses in hospital tend to be patient advocates--they are truly concerned. I learned to respect good clinical nurses during my residency and my trust has never been betrayed.

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There are many dedicated MDs (most likely the majority). But there are also many who are only in it for the money. For those payoffs from the drug companies only enhances their bottom line.

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Alligator Ed's picture

@humphrey but the number of people entering medicine as a business rather than a healing profession is growing. Nurses on the other hand do not enter medicine as a business, as a general rule.

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Another thing that I see in the field is horribly over inflated prices for medical supplies - especially when dealing with Apria. It isn't rare to see something like neonatal oximeter probes labeled with 'not for individual resale' to come as a single unit and the price being charged for that one probe to be in excess of what a dozen would cost if you went shopping via Amazon or similar, even when matching exact model number/brand. Of course "the insurance doesn't really pay that price" is what I hear when I bring it up with my supervisors. Seems to be some sort of scam between the insurance companies and the equipment suppliers to pad their medical loss ratio and let them fleece us all out of more money in medical extortion insurance payments.

The last time I went over a patient's invoice (with that patient's permission) the average mark up was in excess of 200% above a fair market value for each item. Several items exceeded 1000% markups. You want to see medical fraud? Don't look so much at the patients, or MDs. Look at the big name companies.

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Alligator Ed's picture

@Salish Sea Cephalopod A former patient of mine who require daily injections could only obtain the syringes through a hospital controlled outpatient dispenser. She was charged $71 for 10 syringes. Retail price through other sources is well under $1 each.

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@Alligator Ed me how people are forced to buy so many overpriced goods or services because some business sets up arbitrary 'rules.' I'm also thinking of banking and telecom.

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dfarrah

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@Salish Sea Cephalopod Uh-oh. You've brought up That Which Must Not Be Named.

You reduce medical costs by having those whining little people suck it up and expect a lower grade of health.

Costs of medicine, medical machinery/technology, and treatment are like the speed of light or the force of gravity: inevitable forces whose only changeable quality is the increase of price as time goes on. The rate of increase shall not be discussed as it is, too, a natural law.

And don't even mention the notion that people are profiting by this and that their profits could be less.

Don't mention the war.

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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

Alligator Ed's picture

@Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal

And don't even mention the notion that people are profiting by this and that their profits could be less.

I believe those people to be Democrats. They are much more genteel than the Repugnant ruffians, whose approach to healthcare is "hurry up and die".

What two lovely, humane major political parties we have! It makes me smile every day!

Preved

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@Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal '70s and '80s, when gas prices kept going up no matter what.

There was an editorial that ridiculed the oil business (in a large Houston newspaper, no less) by noting: supplies are tight, so gas prices increase; there is a glut, so prices increase; people are buying smaller cars, so prices increase; and on and on.

It was hilarious, but I can't capture the humor of it in this post.

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dfarrah

Alligator Ed's picture

@dfarrah Laughter is better than crying.

ROFL

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for 35 years. It is nice working with someone that knows you. A call to his office, and we in same day or next if we aren't feeling good. However, technology to improve client services in his office would be great. A Skype exam to renew a Xanax prescription for casual and intermittent use would be nice. More internet and online record access would also be great. I have to fight to get a bill from this office.

I recently added a female family doctor to my medical care. She is young, gentle, and does bio identical HRT , not that I'm a good candidate for it. Rash and allergies. In any event, she is more in tune with modern treatment philosphies and has a host of PAs, midwives, and other sundry medical staff. Getting in to see her takes months, and she communicates best by email. I don't like seeing an assortment of non-doctors that I don't know; but as someone with a preference for robots over humans in some circumstances, I appreciate her use of technology. It is also amazing how much gentler a woman doctor is compared to a man.

Between the two docs,their respective and different hospital affiliations, and great health care benefits, I feel my needs are met quite satisfactorily. MI BC/BS is non-profit. They have been wonderful to work with. Everybody should have what I have.

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"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon

Alligator Ed's picture

@dkmich Refills of medication by phone or email can be great. But there are instances--many instances--where this facility to do so leads to drug overuse. Patients, even stable patients, should not have their healthcare placed on autopilot. An updated exam is necessary at least yearly even for stable patients.

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@dkmich think there has been a huge effort by medical businesses (like Kaiser Permanente or U of Colorado Hospital) to improve communication skills and bedside manner.

Docs nowadays are very different from the docs I used to work with in the '80s; the male docs my Dad and I see are very nice.

People are tired of arrogant doctors. (the docs are probably just as arrogant as in the past, but they seem able to cover it up.)

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dfarrah

Song of the lark's picture

Bill in Sacramento? I been seeing a few discouraging notices. Seem as if the politicians won't act till they are forced too.

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Steven D's picture

@Song of the lark NY or CA to pass single payer before we will see movement at the Federal level. Just my opinion, but I see Medicare for all as one of those issues that our Congress will not address unless several large states implement it first.

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"You can't just leave those who created the problem in charge of the solution."---Tyree Scott

Alligator Ed's picture

@Steven D the cause for MFA. I liked him better when he was Governor MoonBeam.

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Song of the lark's picture

@Alligator Ed Linda Ronstadt in her undies on the cover of Rolling Stone.

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Alligator Ed's picture

@Song of the lark

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@Song of the lark thanks for asking, now I know too.

SB-562 The Healthy California Act

05/26/17 Read second time and amended. Ordered to third reading.
05/26/17 From committee: Do pass as amended. (Ayes 5. Noes 2.) (May 25).
...

Bill Analysis

In other medical news, how symbolic of the DNC to leave behind a shitty viral problem after spewing out their odoriferous pie holes at their "putting down the resistance" gathering in Sacramento.
Soaring norovirus cases put schools on high alert in Yolo and Sacramento counties
overtaken at home
Officials warn of potential Norovirus outbreak in Sonoma County Schools
who needz xmas in june because why not this is heart of wine country. Or maybe it is a different organ.

You are asking how you can help. There are many ways: Bring 20-pound bags of rice, beans and canned food, such as vegetables, tuna and peanut butter. You can also donate appetizers for the event, donate refreshments for the event, such as bottled water; make a financial donation to help defray the pantry’s expenses; bring yummy homemade cookies for the cookie exchange; and come and support the event.

eXperience Cloverdale LOL do not look at the man behind the curtain! duh

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Alligator Ed's picture

@eyo Thanks for the link to the text. I was saddened but not surprised by the Santa Maria Chamber of Commerce being against this bill. Our state senator is moderately progressive and saw his name as a supporter of the bill. Yay! Sadly, our congress critter, a DemonRAT, is against MFA.

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A huge multiple guess test doesn't seem all that appropriate, but I really do worry about healthcare providers who fall behind or wander off. To get their initial credentials the providers have to demonstrate both book learning and hands-on skills: ten years down the road are they still up to snuff in the current context? It seems to me that unlike other professional jobs, physicians, dentists and optometrists are unsupervised so that there is no way to catch problems before there's are serious damage done.

Maybe some elements of the initial credentialing process could be used to do a checkup on the providers skills and abilities rather than simply a multiple choice test (though that might be refilled to encourage awareness of new new knowledge).

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Alligator Ed's picture

@MinuteMan This maxim does not seem to apply to Congress critters who can pretty much graze wherever they want to, whenever they want to. Re-election sometimes retires the slower critters from the pasture.

Multiple choice questions are useless in a clinical setting. Too many subtleties and variations to make "multiple guess" questions meaningful. A proctored, bedside examination of patients with various problems is a better way to go. A physician never knows who's going to walk through the door seeking help. Not all clinical conditions in ANY discipline can ever be adequately tested via multiple chance questions. What a proctored examination offers that no MOC or CME exam does, is to reveal a practitioner's method of dealing with clinical problems. This includes assessment of history-taking (75% of diagnosis) and conduct of physical examination as well as lab and imaging interpretation, with evaluation the reasoning used by the examinee in reaching a clinical diagnosis. It might be argued that a proctored exam, requiring time away from practice, not only by the examinee but also by the proctor would be expensive. Given that MOC exams are quite costly, the substitution of a live proctor would make it more expensive. But the results are likely to be far more realistic.

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From the customer's perspective Glenridge and urgent cares provider a way to get timely help. It can take months to get an appointment for troublesome but non critical maladies. This seems to be a nationwide problem. The choice facing the consumer is between suboptimal care and distant or no care. Maybe we could do with more providers?

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Alligator Ed's picture

@MinuteMan But the administrative burden is so great, that the erosion of face-to-face time with patients is significantly reduced, which no amount of physician "extenders" can ever compensate quality-wise. Furthermore medical informatics as represented by electronic health records (EHR) still sadly fails. Lastly, advocating for patients' needs, which can only be done in many cases by the physician personally, necessitated by Insurance Company greed, is not only time-wasting but aggravating.

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studentofearth's picture

voices and increased control of medicine by corporations, including big PHARMA, medical device manufactures and technology companies. MOC (maintenance of certification) is a subtle method that may be corrupted and used to shift market share of specific drug therapy by focusing marketing points of specific drugs. Is there a drug interaction vs how to manage an interaction of a drug that has fewer side effects.

The potential to effect physician income by hiring HB1 visa employees becomes greater as an fewer physicians are in private practice.

Growing trend of physician as an employee

The American Medical Association reported in its 2012 Practice Benchmark Survey that a slight majority (53 percent) of physicians owned their practices, down from 61 percent in 2007/2008; 42 percent of physicians were employees, and 5 percent were independent contractors.

For physicians who were in practice in the 1990s, the growing prevalence of the employed physician model will seem familiar. As in the '90s, hospitals and other entities are buying practices and employing physicians as a way to achieve efficiencies associated with system-wide integration, manage large population groups, and better position themselves for value-based or bundled payments. Although the integration in the '90s often ended in disintegration, with many hospitals later selling off the practices they had bought, this latest effort appears to have some differences.3 For example, there is now a greater emphasis on reaching quality goals and expanding information technology to support the work.

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Still yourself, deep water can absorb many disturbances with minimal reaction.
--When the opening appears release yourself.

Alligator Ed's picture

@studentofearth Your commentary needs expansion, which I will be happy to provide. If you can add "inside" information, I would be glad to see what you have to write in addition to this cogent comment.

Clapping

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studentofearth's picture

@Alligator Ed as an authoritative power. It has been reinforced by marketing (doctor approved), workplace rules (excused absence - note from doctor), regulatory (In oregon one can be excused from land use laws regarding second residences on the same lot), economics (insurance will pay with a prescription) and story telling (Marcus Welby).

If a group wants more power they need to sideline the current power holders. The first professional target of Pharma was pharmacists and as a whole physicians were natural allies in limiting or reducing the autonomy of pharmacists. Looking at the changes and struggle of independent pharmacies since the 1980's will give insight as to what physician owned practices are facing. The preferred provider networks (PPO) created after the Clinton healthcare debacle did not protect physician power/control in the long run. The methods developed to increase profit margin by squeezing the other medical professionals is now being used against physicians.

The other big issue is abortions rights. It is considered a women's issue, however the only way to limit abortions was to attack physicians and the patient/physician relationship. Instead of a respected member of the community, a physician became a terrorist target if they participated in abortions. Legislators now have the power to demand physician only use government approved language when counseling a patient.

Just a few thoughts, and I need to get off my soapbox and go to bed. Looking forward to a diary from your view point. I always learn something.

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Still yourself, deep water can absorb many disturbances with minimal reaction.
--When the opening appears release yourself.

Alligator Ed's picture

@studentofearth Thanks for the kind words.

As you correctly illustrate, big pharma and big insurance have been adept at the divide and conquer tactics that have worked so well in the past. When physicians did not back up chiropractors who have legitimate benefits to offer (as well as their share of quackery), they actually paved the road to their own impotency. When physicians abandoned pharmacists, many of whom are quite knowledgeable about drug interactions, side-effects etc., they lost another potential ally. The same is true of many physicians who arrogantly dismiss nurses. I learned early in my career that it is far better to have the nurses on your side (as I did because I treated the nurses as valuable allies in patient care) than to have them against you (resulting in worsened care). Valuing people's contributions and their individual worthiness is always a winning strategy. One doesn't need to take a Dale Carnegie course to know that.

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