Glenn Greenwald vs. 'Daily Kos Hacks'

I happened to spot this on the rec'd list of TOP.
Naturally, the diary is written as if the GOS put him in his place. Which only proves that there is no brain trust over there, because even a casual reading of the exchange shows just how one-sided it was.

You don't have to give TOP clicks they don't deserve, Glenn starts it off by posting from this article.

Naturally the DKos trolls couldn't let a factual thing like this go, so they attacked the messenger in a way that only proved that they didn't know what was going on.
So Glenn smacked down the first moron.

Next up: Glenn must be a cowardly traitor.

And then the authoritarian comes out.

Then one of the worse Hillary shills jumped in, and Glenn promptly smacked him down.

Not being smart enough to know when you are out of your league, Laurence get's smacked down again.

And again.

And yet, on TOP, this is some sort of "triumph" for them, instead of an example of being schooled.
Face down in the mud, one arm raised up in a sign of victory.

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Arrow's picture

From your essay from yesterday.

http://caucus99percent.com/comment/248151#comment-248151

As usual the knives are out for anyone who disagrees with the 'party line'.

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I want a Pony!

Big Al's picture

The rightwingers on that site, including it's owner, have long proven their imperialist bonafides by backing Obama's wars in Libya and Syria, and they were the first to jump on board the hate Putin/Russia bandwagon under Obama's watch.

The Democratic party is even more dangerous at this point than the republican party with it's Russia bashing showing a clear support for the ruling class plan for global hegemony. The party wanted Hillary Clinton as president, a war criminal, who would have been a clear and present danger to the planet as president (not that Trump isn't), and no doubt would have been supported all the way to the end by those on Daily Kos, who can't see the reality forest through the partisan trees.

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@Big Al
more favorably by Democrats than Republicans": https://www.reddit.com/r/WayOfTheBern/comments/5ymqz6/for_the_first_time...

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"It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society." --Jiddu Krishnamurti

@2andfro
And...for the first time (perhaps ever) DKOS and "The Left" now fawns over George W. Bush, and we hear them say things like...they "miss him" now.

Bush is the man that stole the 2000 Election, and managed to stay in power only through a rigged reelection in 2004. This is the man who put the despotic PNAC Neocons in control of the U.S. Government where they proceeded to plan and orchestrate the 9/11 attack (and NORAD stand down, and steel building demolition), and trick the whole Country into embracing perpetual, endless, criminal global Warfare across multiple 3rd World Nations which slaughtered well over 1.5 million innocent people, and created worldwide chaos (unlike anything since WWII). This is the man that tricked the Country into giving up our own precious Civil Liberties, including the 4th Amendment, the right to a fair public trial, the right not to be assassinated by the government by mere 'suspicion' alone, and created U.S. Human Torture Centers. This is the man that let the Big Banks plunder the Economy on his watch, and presided over a massive transfer of wealth from the 99% to the richest 1%.

Yet he is a "good guy" now, and a missed hero of "The Left", because he scolds Donald Trump for his (completely unproven) Russia connections -- which even if true -- killed absolutely nobody, and took away no one's rights.

So this is what "The Left" now stands for...

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@FreeSociety
unsure about the building collapse, (because I'm not an engineer,) I agree with everything you've said here. Truly well said!

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@Linda Wood

This is the same Architects and Engineers group whose videos and detailed explanations convinced me.

The overwhelming evidence and the number of professionals/experts pointing to such evidence explains the amount of effort put into convincing people to dismiss such 'CT claims' without examining the evidence, because the official claims in no manner cover/explain the circumstances.

And honestly, anyone who feels absolutely convinced that the criminal polluting industry representatives within the Bush administration would - apparently simply by virtue of having attained/been cheated into/appointed to public office - never, ever lie, cheat, risk damage to airplanes or buildings to profit anyone or risk Americans suffering and dying in the interest of an excuse for invading oil-rich countries needs to read more. Including the *torture report, perhaps? Maybe even take a look at the Bush Admin disaster response to Katrina victims. 'Heck of a job' done on those people... Personally, I'd put nothing above them, going by their own actions and characters.

http://www.ae911truth.org/

http://www.ae911truth.org/gallery/evidence.html

There are other expert groups as well.

http://pilotsfor911truth.org/

http://pilotsfor911truth.org/UA93_Press_Release.html

Best to read this in full at source, if device used permits - but this is essential reading, this shows what we're facing.

* http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-12-12/media-focusing-wrong-senate-tor...

The Media Is Focusing On the WRONG Senate Torture Report
George Washington's picture
by George Washington
Dec 12, 2014

The Big Story Torture Everyone Is Missing

While the torture report released by the Senate Intelligence Committee is very important, it doesn’t address the big scoop regarding torture.

Instead, it is the Senate Armed Services Committee’s report that dropped the big bombshell regarding the U.S. torture program.

Senator Levin, commenting on a Armed Services Committee’s report on torture in 2009, explained:

The techniques are based on tactics used by Chinese Communists against American soldiers during the Korean War for the purpose of eliciting FALSE confessions for propaganda purposes. Techniques used in SERE training include stripping trainees of their clothing, placing them in stress positions, putting hoods over their heads, subjecting them to face and body slaps, depriving them of sleep, throwing them up against a wall, confining them in a small box, treating them like animals, subjecting them to loud music and flashing lights, and exposing them to extreme temperatures [and] waterboarding.

McClatchy filled in important details:

Former senior U.S. intelligence official familiar with the interrogation issue said that Cheney and former Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld demanded that the interrogators find evidence of al Qaida-Iraq collaboration…

For most of 2002 and into 2003, Cheney and Rumsfeld, especially, were also demanding proof of the links between al Qaida and Iraq that (former Iraqi exile leader Ahmed) Chalabi and others had told them were there.”

It was during this period that CIA interrogators waterboarded two alleged top al Qaida detainees repeatedly — Abu Zubaydah at least 83 times in August 2002 and Khalid Sheik Muhammed 183 times in March 2003 — according to a newly released Justice Department document…

When people kept coming up empty, they were told by Cheney’s and Rumsfeld’s people to push harder,” he continued.” Cheney’s and Rumsfeld’s people were told repeatedly, by CIA . . . and by others, that there wasn’t any reliable intelligence that pointed to operational ties between bin Laden and Saddam . . . ...

... Levin recalled Cheney’s assertions that a senior Iraqi intelligence officer had met Mohammad Atta, the leader of the 9/11 hijackers, in the Czech Republic capital of Prague just months before the attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon.

The FBI and CIA found that no such meeting occurred.

The Washington Post reported the same year:

Despite what you’ve seen on TV, torture is really only good at one thing: eliciting false confessions. Indeed, Bush-era torture techniques, we now know, were cold-bloodedly modeled after methods used by Chinese Communists to extract confessions from captured U.S. servicemen that they could then use for propaganda during the Korean War.

So as shocking as the latest revelation in a new Senate Armed Services Committee report may be, it actually makes sense — in a nauseating way. The White House started pushing the use of torture not when faced with a “ticking time bomb” scenario from terrorists, but when officials in 2002 were desperately casting about for ways to tie Iraq to the 9/11 attacks — in order to strengthen their public case for invading a country that had nothing to do with 9/11 at all.
***
Gordon Trowbridge writes for the Detroit News: “Senior Bush administration officials pushed for the use of abusive interrogations of terrorism detainees in part to seek evidence to justify the invasion of Iraq, according to newly declassified information discovered in a congressional probe.

As Truthout reported:

[Torture architect] Jessen’s notes were provided to Truthout by retired Air Force Capt. Michael Kearns, a “master” SERE instructor and decorated veteran who has previously held high-ranking positions within the Air Force Headquarters Staff and Department of Defense (DoD).

***
The Jessen notes clearly state the totality of what was being reverse-engineered – not just ‘enhanced interrogation techniques,’ but an entire program of exploitation of prisoners using torture as a central pillar,” he said. “What I think is important to note, as an ex-SERE Resistance to Interrogation instructor, is the focus of Jessen’s instruction. It is EXPLOITATION, not specifically interrogation. And this is not a picayune issue, because if one were to ‘reverse-engineer’ a course on resistance to exploitation then what one would get is a plan to exploit prisoners, not interrogate them. The CIA/DoD torture program appears to have the same goals as the terrorist organizations or enemy governments for which SV-91 and other SERE courses were created to defend against: the full exploitation of the prisoner in his intelligence, propaganda, or other needs held by the detaining power, such as the recruitment of informers and double agents. Those aspects of the US detainee program have not generally been discussed as part of the torture story in the American press.”

In a subsequent report, Truthout notes:

Air Force Col. Steven Kleinman, a career military intelligence officer recognized as one of the DOD’s most effective interrogators as well a former SERE instructor and director of intelligence for JPRA’s teaching academy, said …. “This is the guidebook to getting false confessions, a system drawn specifically from the communist interrogation model that was used to generate propaganda rather than intelligence” …. “If your goal is to obtain useful and reliable information this is not the source book you should be using.”

Interrogators also forced detainees to take drugs … which further impaired their ability to tell the truth.

And one of the two main architects of the torture program admitted this week on camera:

You can get people to say anything to stop harsh interrogations if you apply them in a way that does that.

And false confessions were, in fact, extracted.

For example:

A humanitarian aid worker said: torture only stopped when I pretended I was in Al Qaeda

Under torture, Libyan Ibn al-Sheikh al-Libi falsely claimed there was a link between Saddam Hussein, al-Qaida and WMD

President Bush mentioned Abu Zubaydah as a success story, where torture saved lives. Zubaydah was suspected of being a high-ranking al-Qaida leader. Bush administration officials claimed Zubaydah told them that al-Qaida had links with Saddam Hussein. He also claimed there was a plot to attack Washington with a “dirty bomb”. Both claims are now recognized to be false, even by the CIA, which also admits he was never a member of al-Qaida.

One of the Main Sources for the 9/11 Commission Report was Tortured Until He Agreed to Sign a Confession that He Was NOT EVEN ALLOWED TO READ

The so-called 9/11 mastermind said: “During … my interrogation I gave a lot of false information in order to satisfy what I believed the interrogators wished to hear” (the self-confessed 9/11 “mastermind” falsely confessed to crimes he didn’t commit)

And the 9/11 Commission Report was largely based on a third-hand account of what tortured detainees said, with two of the three parties in the communication being government employees. And the government went to great lengths to obstruct justice and hide unflattering facts from the Commission.

According to NBC News:

Much of the 9/11 Commission Report was based upon the testimony of people who were tortured

At least four of the people whose interrogation figured in the 9/11 Commission Report have claimed that they told interrogators information as a way to stop being “tortured.”

The 9/11 Commission itself doubted the accuracy of the torture confessions, and yet kept their doubts to themselves

Details here.

Today, Raymond McGovern – a 27-year CIA veteran, who chaired National Intelligence Estimates and personally delivered intelligence briefings to Presidents Ronald Reagan and George H.W. Bush, their Vice Presidents, Secretaries of State, the Joint Chiefs of Staff, and many other senior government officials – provides details about one torture victim (Al-Libi) at former Newsweek and AP reporter Robert Parry's website:

But if it’s bad intelligence you’re after, torture works like a charm. If, for example, you wish to “prove,” post 9/11, that “evil dictator” Saddam Hussein was in league with al-Qaeda and might arm the terrorists with WMD, bring on the torturers.

It is a highly cynical and extremely sad story, but many Bush administration policymakers wanted to invade Iraq before 9/11 and thus were determined to connect Saddam Hussein to those attacks. The PR push began in September 2002 – or as Bush’s chief of staff Andrew Card put it, “From a marketing point of view, you don’t introduce new products in August.”

By March 2003 – after months of relentless “marketing” – almost 70 percent of Americans had been persuaded that Saddam Hussein was involved in some way with the attacks of 9/11. ...

... Paul Krugman [whatever you think of his economics, he got this one right] eloquently summarized the truth about the torture used:

Let’s say this slowly: the Bush administration wanted to use 9/11 as a pretext to invade Iraq, even though Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11. So it tortured people to make them confess to the nonexistent link.

There’s a word for this: it’s evil.

Torture Program Was Part of a Con Job

As discussed above, in order to “justify” the Iraq war, top Bush administration officials pushed and insisted that interrogators use special torture methods aimed at extracting false confessions to attempt to create a false linkage between between Al Qaida and Iraq. And see this and this.

But this effort started earlier …
5 hours after the 9/11 attacks, Donald Rumsfeld said “my interest is to hit Saddam”.

He also said “Go massive . . . Sweep it all up. Things related and not.”

And at 2:40 p.m. on September 11th, in a memorandum of discussions between top administration officials, several lines below the statement “judge whether good enough [to] hit S.H. [that is, Saddam Hussein] at same time”, is the statement “Hard to get a good case.” In other words, top officials knew that there wasn’t a good case that Hussein was behind 9/11, but they wanted to use the 9/11 attacks as an excuse to justify war with Iraq anyway.

Moreover, “Ten days after the September 11, 2001, terrorist attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon, President Bush was told in a highly classified briefing that the U.S. intelligence community had no evidence linking the Iraqi regime of Saddam Hussein to the [9/11] attacks and that there was scant credible evidence that Iraq had any significant collaborative ties with Al Qaeda”.

And a Defense Intelligence Terrorism Summary issued in February 2002 by the United States Defense Intelligence Agency cast significant doubt on the possibility of a Saddam Hussein-al-Qaeda conspiracy.

And yet Bush, Cheney and other top administration officials claimed repeatedly for years that Saddam was behind 9/11. See this analysis. Indeed, Bush administration officials apparently swore in a lawsuit that Saddam was behind 9/11.

Moreover, President Bush’s March 18, 2003 letter to Congress authorizing the use of force against Iraq, includes the following paragraph:

(2) acting pursuant to the Constitution and Public Law 107-243 is consistent with the United States and other countries continuing to take the necessary actions against international terrorists and terrorist organizations, including those nations, organizations, or persons who planned, authorized, committed, or aided the terrorist attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001.

Therefore, the Bush administration expressly justified the Iraq war to Congress by representing that Iraq planned, authorized, committed, or aided the 9/11 attacks.

Indeed, Pulitzer prize-winning journalist Ron Suskind reports that the White House ordered the CIA to forge and backdate a document falsely linking Iraq with Muslim terrorists and 9/11 … and that the CIA complied with those instructions and in fact created the forgery, which was then used to justify war against Iraq. And see this.

Suskind also revealed that “Bush administration had information from a top Iraqi intelligence official ‘that there were no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq – intelligence they received in plenty of time to stop an invasion.’ ”

Cheney made the false linkage between Iraq and 9/11 on many occasions.

For example, according to Raw Story, Cheney was still alleging a connection between Iraq and the alleged lead 9/11 hijacker in September 2003 – a year after it had been widely debunked. When NBC’s Tim Russert asked him about a poll showing that 69% of Americans believed Saddam Hussein had been involved in 9/11, Cheney replied:

It’s not surprising that people make that connection.

And even after the 9/11 Commission debunked any connection, Cheney said that the evidence is “overwhelming” that al Qaeda had a relationship with Saddam Hussein’s regime , that Cheney “probably” had information unavailable to the Commission, and that the media was not ‘doing their homework’ in reporting such ties.

Again, the Bush administration expressly justified the Iraq war by representing that Iraq planned, authorized, committed, or aided the 9/11 attacks. See this, this, this.

Even then-CIA director George Tenet said that the White House wanted to invade Iraq long before 9/11, and inserted “crap” in its justifications for invading Iraq.

Former Treasury Secretary Paul O’Neill – who sat on the National Security Council – also says that Bush planned the Iraq war before 9/11.

Top British officials say that the U.S. discussed Iraq regime change even before Bush took office.

And in 2000, Cheney said a Bush administration might “have to take military action to forcibly remove Saddam from power.” And see this.

The administration’s false claims about Saddam and 9/11 helped convince a large portion of the American public to support the invasion of Iraq. While the focus now may be on false WMD claims, it is important to remember that, at the time, the alleged link between Iraq and 9/11 was at least as important in many people’s mind as a reason to invade Iraq.

So the torture program was really all about “justifying” the ultimate war crime: launching an unnecessary war of aggression based upon false pretenses.

Postscript: It is beyond any real dispute that torture does not work to produce any useful, truthful intelligence. Today, the following question made it to the front page of Reddit:

Why would the CIA torture if torture “doesn’t work”? Wouldn’t they want the most effective tool to gather intelligence?

The Senate Armed Services Committee report gave the answer.

Can you really be certain that these people were, at best, stupid and incompetent enough to have ignored persistent warnings of intelligence indicating an attack, telling messengers that 'You've covered your butt, now go away'?

Please, if possible, go here (to 'Cheney Admits that He Lied about 9/11', below) and follow the links, especially these following, which may explain a great deal:
http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2010/09/big-brother-has-come-to-the-birth...

http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2011/02/america-might-be-a-more-gilded-ca...

On the continued-since-Bush-Admin-initiation on 9/11 and certainly up to 2011 by Obama 'continuity of government orders' creating a 'shadow government' of 'civilian managers' of which many in Congress had no idea at time of interview and information regarding which kept secret even from Homeland Security, but it's thought that this 'shadow government' might be functioning outside of the US Constitution - all on the excuse of '9/11'.

http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2013/03/cheney-admits-that-he-lied-about-...

Cheney Admits that He Lied about 9/11
Posted on March 8, 2013 by WashingtonsBlog
What Else Did He Lie About?

The New York Times’ Maureen Dowd writes today:

In a documentary soon to appear on Showtime, “The World According to Dick Cheney,” [Cheney said] “I got on the telephone with the president, who was in Florida, and told him not to be at one location where we could both be taken out.” Mr. Cheney kept W. flying aimlessly in the air on 9/11 while he and Lynn left on a helicopter for a secure undisclosed location, leaving Washington in a bleak, scared silence, with no one reassuring the nation in those first terrifying hours.

“I gave the instructions that we’d authorize our pilots to take it out,” he says, referring to the jet headed to Washington that crashed in a Pennsylvania field. He adds: “After I’d given the order, it was pretty quiet. Everybody had heard it, and it was obviously a significant moment.”

***

When they testified together before the 9/11 Commission, W. and Mr. Cheney kept up a pretense that in a previous call, the president had authorized the vice president to give a shoot-down order if needed. But the commission found “no documentary evidence for this call.”

In other words, Cheney pretended that Bush had authorized a shoot-down order, but Cheney now admits that he never did. In fact, Cheney acted as if he was the president on 9/11. *

Cheney lied about numerous other facts related to 9/11 as well. For example, Cheney:

Falsely linked Iraq with 9/11 (indeed, the entire torture program was aimed at establishing such a false linkage; and Cheney is the guy who pushed for torture, pressured the Justice Department lawyers to write memos saying torture was legal, and made the pitch to Congress justifying torture. The former director of the CIA said Cheney oversaw American torture policies)

Falsely claimed that spying on Americans, torture, the Patriot Act, the Afghanistan war, the Iraq war and the “war on terror” were all necessitated by 9/11 … when all of them started or were planned before 9/11

Falsely stated that an attack such as 9/11 was unforeseeable, when Al Qaeda flying planes into the World Trade Center and Pentagon was something which American military and intelligence services – and our allies – knew could happen

Falsely pretended that he was out of the loop during the 9/11 attacks

Falsely blamed others for 9/11, when Cheney was in charge of all of America’s co unter-terrorism exercises, activities and responses on 9/11. See this Department of State announcement and this CNN article …

… And when Cheney was apparently responsible for letting the Pentagon get hit by an airplane (confirmed here and here)

And was instrumental in squashing a real investigation into 9/11

* Indeed, Cheney initiated Continuity of Government plans on 9/11 which essentially nullified America’s constitutional form of government.

I haven't followed all of the above links this time, but there are too many indications that the Bush Admin, among others, may not have been entirely truthful (or sane) and that there was too much hay made out of 9/11 for any assumptions that the thwarted investigation into 9/11 should not be revived and completed as well as still is possible.

And I'm posting an awful lot in here, but some stuff just vanished from my draft page and dunno how long any of this might remain; I hope that people will pay attention to this and look into it, not just swallow the corporate party propaganda, exploded 'debunking' and defenses intended to encourage people to ignore anything beyond the official stories, while Bush is being paraded as a 'hero'.

I also fear another, worse Black Flag spree intended to justify nuking multiple countries and we must not fall for any such further attempts.

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Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.

A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.

@Ellen North
Thank you for all of this. Often at caucus99percent I wonder if and when we will have a day to look at 9/11 together. I think we will. It's so important.

But I am the oldest, longest dedicated, and most dedicated conspiracy theorist you will ever meet.

I think Khalid Sheikh Mohammed was trained at Harvey Point in North Carolina in explosives design and detonation because he studied at a small college nearby during the time we trained jihadists there. That's why I think he was tortured, so that all that he confessed to will be inadmissible in court. They don't want him in a courtroom because he's ours.

I am very interested in the anthrax attack, and I want you to remember that Cheney also tried to mislead the public into believing the anthrax came from Saddam, and that the meeting in Prague with Atta was for the purpose of giving him the spores. I think anthrax is possibly the reason our elected officials fold when confronted by the Deep State, because they're told that unless they follow orders there will be another attack, much larger than the first one.

Peter Lance has documented that the FBI was told in 1995 of the plan by Ramzi Yousef to crash planes into the buildings attacked on 9/11 plus several more. That is why the FBI was monitoring flight schools for jihadist students right up until 9/11.

I think the PNAC paper pointing out the need for a new Pearl Harbor was not so much an advocacy for such an attack as a justification for letting it happen, because they knew there was ample evidence that the highest level of our government knew about it in advance.

They let it happen. On purpose. The PNAC paper is an explanation of why.

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@Linda Wood

Hi Linda, keep in mind that if the "official" description of the collapse were true, and all the core columns simultaneously melted from fire (which never happened before), and in synchronized fashion to the point where all the floors just fell at once..... you still would have the result of a pancaked building --- and not a building imploding into bits and pieces --- to the point of fine dust clouds.

The pictures alone (never mind audio recordings of explosions going off) make quite clear this was not a collapse due to fire or heat.

And then, of course, we have the unusual substance nano thermite that was found at the site, which is used expressly for the purpose of demolition.

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@FreeSociety @FreeSociety
thank you so much for this concise description. As I responded to Ellen, I am a serious and dedicated conspiracy theorist. I believe it is much more likely that the buildings were blown up with explosives than that they just pancaked downward because of fire. Concrete pulverizing to dust seems impossible otherwise. And I've read about the Port Authority's concerns about the buildings ever needing to be demolished, the enormous contaminations involved, the costs, so given they were known terrorist targets, it's more likely they were set to be blown up in case of an attack than that they were left to be badly damaged, as had happened in the 1993 attack.

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@FreeSociety

By their standards, Bush 2 is 'the good guy', the goofy face of the antidote for civilization, the one who brought raving insanity into governance, the guy who successfully got the essential nails most deeply in the coffin-lid of democracy, creating and implementing effective hammers to crush the fingers of any desperate hands fighting to make a way back out for life and freedom.

Bush, like those before him, enabled those coming after to expand upon the abuses and to use them against a people who'd failed to recognise and act against the hazard, many of whom seemingly still have no real idea of the nature of the beast, even where aware of the signs. Like a terrified horse, some even still rely on running back into one of the only two political 'legitimizing' barns they've been propagandized into seeing as possible refuges, even though aware that they are burning death-traps from which they must run...

Because of Bush, so far the psychopaths have won, and soon there will be nothing left to fight to save and no complex life remaining to care, if they are not stopped now.

Of course the lunatics will celebrate him - please remember that the Bush Admin and their ilk do not believe in reality and believe that, with enough money, they can purchase/create a personal and reality-disconnected 'reality' and somehow make it (virtually) 'real'. And some, being science/reality-deniers, that a copy of their recorded personality being programmed into a robotic body will enable them to 'live forever' even after they themselves die in their own bodies - in an unliving state. That and survive a 'limited' nuclear war-crime committed against multiple countries and, undoubtedly, that they can do so in comfort without an outside world/oxygen, etc., possibly in these robotic bodies, forever exploring and eternally gloating over the lifeless and inimical-to-life hell they're so intent on creating?

Not that that's what the silly buggers think their existence will be like, once they have it all, and the ruins of the world to themselves - I've even heard speculation about whether we could survive 'in the wild', as if there would necessarily be a wild to survive in, following high radiation levels and global dimming causing total ecological collapse, or whether ravening and unrestrained polluting industry would leave anything but total devastation in wringing the maximally poisoned life-blood from the planet as quickly as possible. Once oxygen production drops below a certain level, breaths become numbered. And it would appear that the Pacific Ocean, a major source of oxygen, is already likely to become a radioactively toxic write-off, thanks to the nuclear industry. You don't mess with complex systems unless you're too stupid and greedy to even understand the first thing...

One thing following to take into account, if you actually do understand what it is that we're dealing with:

You have to actually listen to what Nick Brana says, and think in terms of a strategy and the way in which Bernie has throughout his life-time achieved some of his 'impossible' wins for the people, as with health-care advances for the most vulnerable, by never giving up and, when one route fails, trying another - but the strategy has been successful before - if not squashed prior.

Indies are now the largest voting group - and no informed person wants to vote for either corporate party or trusts the corporate media - so a huge enough electoral sweep which could not be plausibly concealed to be plausibly stolen from The People could be possible, with enough aware to try it as an end run around an impossible situation. This would be the potential for global survival without a bloody revolution. Assuming that the nuking doesn't begin.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LcNdKkTkgOU

Campaign Calls on Bernie Sanders to Lead a New Party
TheRealNews

Published on 9 Mar 2017
Nick Brana, former Sanders staffer, says it's time to give up expecting progressive change from the Democratic Party and that Sanders should lead his base in creating a new party

But while if we toss away our few allies and our last chances we. at least, may in some sense 'deserve' the coming results, the rest of the living world won't.

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Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.

A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.

detroitmechworks's picture

@Big Al when defending the NRA.

I wish I was kidding, but I called out a few of their RKBA contingent several times for using the "Institute of Historical Review" as a source for their claims.

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I do not pretend I know what I do not know.

@Big Al

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Bollox Ref's picture

Laurence Lewis? (shudder). I was hoping to never see that name again.

What is it with these tribal tinpots? Just a year or so ago, Democratic net favorability of the CIA was in negative percentage points.

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Gëzuar!!
from a reasonably stable genius.

@Bollox Ref
he can only 'be tough' when he has his posse behind him.

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dervish's picture

@gjohnsit He's a puerile pest at most.

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"Obama promised transparency, but Assange is the one who brought it."

@Bollox Ref

Lewis' spews at dkos (GOS, TOP) reveal him to be a putz.

It's petty to enjoy the sight of Greenwald running intellectual circles around LL without his apparent awareness. Shame on me. Acute

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"It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society." --Jiddu Krishnamurti

gulfgal98's picture

@2andfro can beat Greenwald at mental gymnastics. Greenwald is so smart and quick of mind that he makes everyone else look stupid. Of course, it is not hard to make someone like ole Turkana look inferior when they have their heads so far up their own arses.

We have to remember, the sychophants at dkos never liked Greenwald. The truth is hard for them to accept so they have created their own pathetic little bubble.

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Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?

“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy

shaharazade's picture

@gulfgal98 back in the day to call out publicly that dkos hack and idiotic Obama sycophant Blackwaterdog. I'm ashamed to have gone there and read this embarrassingly stupid so called diary by poll watcher. It's creepy to read the threads and see that people I may have disagreed with but respected have become rightwing nutjobs who believe they are progressive Dems. McCarthyism lives again. A scary mob mentality.

Shah's right dkos is where you go for your daily dose of hate. What a sick joke. Why would anyone bother to even go there and read the garbage spewed by people that are so brainwashed and delusional that they think Rachael Maddow is a fine journalist and that GG is an agent for Putin? Why are we at caucus99% still dancing to their tunes? They are starting to sound like freaking Nazis themselves believing that the spooks are somehow patriotic protectors of the USA! USA! USA!.

You know Benghazi! may have been an ass backward Republican witch hunt but the Spooks, HRC and Co. were certainly up to no good as far as Libya, Syria, and feeding/supporting ISIS or whatever this variation of 'terrist's who are gonna kill yer family' is called. I love how any sources other then the putrid MSNBC is called fake news or Russian propaganda. I found this very depressing as the dkos community is now just a scary hotbed of nationalistic, RW, fascistic, brainwashed zombies.

Their talk of 'purity' of essence makes my hair stand on end. Why do people like Bob Swern, Shiz or AoT feed these morons by giving them the time of day? I know a lot of misinformed loyal Democrat's but none of them are as delusional as the war loving anti-democratic, pol, persona and party worshiper's at dkos. It's stepping into the pages a real life dypsonian novel or movie. Why enable this dwindling in numbers faction of Demorat's who keep the fascistic imperialist story line alive and kicking. Let them just stew in their own hateful, dark juices.

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@gulfgal98
originates from within certain mandated boundaries. The thought-bubble resulting from this self-imposed restriction has formed a kind of protective shell, within which the "community" is sheltered from many, if not most contrary opinions. Members are obligated to agree with certain political "truths", or else be rejected by the true believers, or opinion leaders who form the backbone of the collective agreement. All of which makes the place a kind of closed system which is largely impervious to any information that might penetrate or weaken its skin, or shell.

I suppose this arrangement of priorities was meant to promote cohesion within the "community", and to give it a unified direction and a clear purpose. Unfortunately it has also resulted in the narrow-minded and blindly partisan group-think that seems to dominate the site now.

Dkos, having hitched its collective wagon to the Democratic Party, and vowed to serve it faithfully come what may, is now being led into ever murkier waters. While it may indeed benefit the D party as a whole to promote anti-Russian propaganda, to make common cause with neocons in attacking Trump, and to support various corporate-funded D candidates, it clearly does not benefit the nation as a whole -- and for Dkos members to pretend that it does, is either deceitful, willfully ignorant, or both.

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native

thanatokephaloides's picture

@Bollox Ref

Just a year or so ago, Democratic net favorability of the CIA was in negative percentage points.

It's called DemExit.

Genuine progressives -- the Bernie Sanders wing of the party back when Bernie still meant something -- are the ones who disapproved of the CIA and its behavior. Today, nearly all of those people (read: us) have DemExited, leaving only Markos Moulitsas and his Hillary loving DLC neo-conserva ilk.

Just one more reason why we need to get our acts together and organize. I still think the Pirate Party is our best bet.....

Wink

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"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar

"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides

is claiming. Therefore, I don't assume stupidity when bots defend Democrats, no matter what. However, intelligent people do usually realize when they are outclassed.

But...you live in Brazil!!111!! Therefore, Democrats on the Intelligence Committeee are not admitting the evidence does not support their claims and you are mean to the vulnerable!

With that kind of logic.....

I wonder how many times Greenwald's eyes rolled when he was reading that stuff.

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@HenryAWallace somehow a crime. I had thought that only wingnuts were capable of that type of logic when I objected to the Afghanistan Invasion, un-American traitor living in furrin parts. I was wrong either of the party faithful are capable of behaving like cretins when the party line is challenged.

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CB's picture

@LaFeminista
sent to protect the women of Afghanistan. Afghani women despise her.

I posted the following and got attacked by a dozen or so of the "usual subjects".


The 'good war' is a bad war

10 January 2008
...
Rawa is the Revolutionary Association of the Women of Afghanistan, which since 1977 has alerted the world to the suffering of women and girls in that country. There is no organisation on earth like it. It is the high bar of feminism, home of the bravest of the brave. Year after year, Rawa agents have travelled secretly through Afghan istan, teaching at clandestine girls' schools, ministering to isolated and brutalised women, recording outrages on cameras concealed beneath their burqas. They were the Taliban regime's implacable foes when the word Taliban was barely heard in the west: when the Clinton administration was secretly courting the mullahs so that the oil company Unocal could build a pipeline across Afghanistan from the Caspian.

Indeed, Rawa's understanding of the designs and hypocrisy of western governments informs a truth about Afghanistan excluded from news, now reduced to a drama of British squaddies besieged by a demonic enemy in a "good war".
...


Stop using women as an excuse to continue the war in Afghanistan

June 7, 2012

Here in Afghanistan, the United States is spending $2 billion dollars a week on war under the guise of improving Afghanistan.

In Chicago at the NATO summit, Hillary Clinton, Madeline Albright and several influential female leaders came together and publicly claimed an American and NATO troop presence in Afghanistan was warranted in order to continue to improve the security of women.

The problem is that these influential women are calling for the very thing that makes Afghan women insecure. Further, they are endorsing Afghan leaders who attack women’s rights. It is not only the war that undermines the security and human rights of Afghan women, but the very war making politicians whom NATO supports.
...
If Clinton and other world leaders are on the side of improving the security of Afghan women, they should not endorse and support the war and the leaders who are actively engaged in violating women’s rights. If Americans are genuinely concerned about this issue, we need to ask why we are using war to promote these goals.

Better yet, we should not further insult and harm Afghans by using women as an excuse to continue the war in Afghanistan. We must be honest and acknowledge that we can not safeguard women’s human rights by making war and supporting individuals that violate human rights.

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@CB CB, that was very informative. Thank you.

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"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981

@CB @CB edit, double post

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"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981

@CB
for all the things you contribute to our knowledge and understanding of this catastrophe. I wish I could emblazon this quote all across TOP's pages:

Better yet, we should not further insult and harm Afghans by using women as an excuse to continue the war in Afghanistan.

!!!!

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snoopydawg's picture

@CB
Never have anything to say about how the women in Saudi Arabia are treated? Not one damn word from anyone who people think are the great defenders of women and children.
Albright's statement has earned her a special place in hell.

Also people keep saying that the Iranians are the biggest supporters of terrorism, but it's Saudi Arabia who wins that prize including the 15 people who were supposedly involved with 9/11.
And remember when the Bin Ladens were flown out of this country when all other planes had been grounded.
I am looking forward to the trial by the families of the people killed on 9/11 against Saudi Arabia. We will finally get to hear what was in those 28 pages that had been classified for 15 years.

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Which AIPAC/MIC/pharma/bank bought politician are you going to vote for? Don’t be surprised when nothing changes.

@snoopydawg @snoopydawg
Putin is running our elections. The Saudi Arabian government is running our government. They're running our foreign policy. They're running our war, which means our they're running our military.

Booz Allen Hamilton is a private security contractor for the Saudi government, providing security services that allow that psychopathic dictatorship to spy on its people and behead and crucify their citizens for criticizing or even joking about the government.

The fact that the Saudi government funded Al Qaeda right up until 9/11 means Booz Allen Hamilton should be under surveillance by the NSA. But no! The most important revelation to come from Edward Snowden is that he worked, not for the NSA, but for Booz Allen Hamilton, who runs the NSA, as it has been privatized. To a contractor protecting the security of our enemy!

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Cassiodorus's picture

@Linda Wood in light of 2000 and 2004 election "irregularities." Remind me again why anyone saw any hope in the Democratic Party after 1988...

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"The war on Gaza, backed by the West, is a demonstration that the West is willing to cross all lines. That it will discard any nuance of humanity. That it is willing to commit genocide" -- Moon of Alabama

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@Cassiodorus Do you really want to know? The answer is kind of sad. But I can speak to that, as someone who tried to reform the Democratic party from 2002-2010.

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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

@CB

If hell exists, there is a special place in hell for women who abuse women's issues so cynically. Then again, my abuela specializes in that kind of doo doo.

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@HenryAWallace ...how Greenwald was eviscerated by their devastating reasoning and logic, right?

I've come to realize that not only do Democrats believe that "my feelings are hurt" is a legitimate debating point that must be taken into account, but they also think "I believe his/her feelings might be hurt" is also a legitimate debating point.
For instance:

a: "I have scientific proof that the world isn't flat."

b: "You can't say that because that historically oppressed group might think that you are intentionally ignoring their grievances. This proves that the world is flat."

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@gjohnsit "so many crushed pearls" trouble was they were being serious I wasn't.

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Dhyerwolf's picture

@gjohnsit
"You can't use anything related to science or the scientific method because those have been used to oppress minority groups, just listen directly to that historically oppressed group and don't analyze at all."

And yes, I'm sure all the people basically saying this are good Democratic partisans as well.

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detroitmechworks's picture

@gjohnsit Frankly, seems a bit racist to me.

"If I were (Insert Disadvantaged group) here, I would be outraged, which I know because I am outraged by EVERYTHING. Therefore, They are as hypersensitive as I am, and I speak with their authority."

Anybody find that kinda like the "White Savior" narrative they like to be outraged about when it shows up in a medium they want to criticize?

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I do not pretend I know what I do not know.

dervish's picture

@detroitmechworks and speak for Muslims for example, yet 4 times out of five, they are completely off-base. It's quite bigoted to claim to speak for others.

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"Obama promised transparency, but Assange is the one who brought it."

diaries [but I had to always watch how I phrased things]. Joining conspiracy theorists who went down the rabbit hole before them and never came back. They are beginning to remind me of the 9-11 truthers.

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Big Al's picture

@LaFeminista

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Big Al's picture

@LaFeminista it's just that, ahem, and don't tell anybody, but
(shh, I'm a 9/11 truther).
Uh oh.

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@Big Al
I wouldn't say that I'm a 9/11 Truther, but I also see how several things about it are extremely unlikely and suspicious.

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Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@Big Al I think I'm one too. Does it include thinking that there was enough evidence to warrant investigation of the idea that Bush et al sat back and allowed it to happen?

Because that's where I'm at.

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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

@Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal deliberately ignored and there is a paper trail to back that one up.

A friend of ours daughter came back from school [in France] the day of 9-11, the first words out of her mouth when she heard the news were- Bin Laden.

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Big Al's picture

@Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal I think it includes anyone who believes the government story doesn't is not entirely truthful. And I remind people about who the "government" was at that time and that the first move was to appoint Henry Kissinger as 9/11 commission chairman.

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gulfgal98's picture

@Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal This pretty much summarizes where I am at too. The more I read and learn, the more skeptical I am about every part of the "official story." Too much does not add up.

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Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?

“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy

TheOtherMaven's picture

@Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal
so far up their asses that they couldn't see what was coming. IMHO most of the official and unofficial government still have their heads rammed all the way up.

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There is no justice. There can be no peace.

shaharazade's picture

@CB @TheOtherMaven .........

heads are not up their own asses but are firmly implanted in the asses of those that rule their world. The one that says no boarders is so liberal (like The Mad Bomber proclaimed) and that transnational elitists are the chosen superior people who are the only the inevitable third way forward but the only 'socially liberal' force around. Whatever the fuck that means. Oh yeah wear your pink pussy hat and resist.

This includes the dick heads from Silicon Valley like Eric Schmidt of Google, Bezos of Amazon (and the WaPo) and that moron Mark Zuckerberg of facebook. They have the net covered with their strange brew of real truths, science and technology that professes to be the only true truth and is the church of scientific binary geek, complicit idiocracy.

All other populist movements are fascistic and extremist. Strange that both parties support and fund imperialistic pig fascist's where ever they find them. Well not so strange as they are all one and the same. They both operate on fear and that makes them complicit as the real fear we all face is not partisan but global. Your being played if you believe that either party here in the USA has anything to offer but fear itself.

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@Big Al be were so full of holes as to be laughable. There are people who want to actually know the facts, there are others that make them up as the go along [those are whom I call the truthers].

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detroitmechworks's picture

@Big Al

2042.

It took them that long to admit the Gulf Of Tonkin was a lie, so it'll take at least that long to admit the truth about 9/11.

Long enough that anybody involved will be dead or retired, thus ensuring that nobody will ever be found liable.

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I do not pretend I know what I do not know.

@Big Al

Me, too. There should have been a proper, independent investigation.

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Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.

A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.

@Big Al apart from a few there are some serious nuts posting over there, it's conspiracy central.

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Oldest Son Of A Sailor's picture

@LaFeminista

"They are beginning to remind me of the 9-11 truthers."

iPod.jpg

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"Do you realize the responsibility I carry?
I'm the only person standing between Richard Nixon and the White House."

~John F. Kennedy~
Economic: -9.13, Social: -7.28,

about this behavior on the part of Democrats is that I had hoped the election of Trump would suddenly cause liberal voters to see the insanity of war, and at first I was amazed to see their sudden awareness that we were in real crises in Ukraine and the Middle East. But as the days go by and I see stuff like this, I feel they are dug in so far in their denial about the failure of their party's policies, that they will hate Trump but encourage his crackpot warmonger associates to go to war with Putin!

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@Linda Wood the could not beat them so they joined them as it were.

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Big Al's picture

@LaFeminista @Linda Wood the same reaction to Trump as there was to Bush, i.e., that dems supporters would be against republican wars where they aren't against democrat's wars.
The problem is, all these wars being carried on by Trump are continuation of Obama's war, except those started by Bush that Obama continued. So they don't have any room to protest anymore, they've been supporting everything going on for eight years.

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@Big Al

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I go to dk to read the headlines and see the latest DNC propaganda. Unfortunately, I will comment and was zapped from a snitch that I needed to acknowledge my wrong doing to post again--which I will not do.

But yes, I saw this living-in-Brazil attack on Greenwald take root at TOP. What bizarre stupidity. But yah, if you are going to challenge Greenwald with insults, be ready for a rhetorical cruise missile back up your ass.

One thing which was pathetic was that a number of front pagers lost all intellectual and moral integrity and became the worst sorts of anti-Russian propagandists. Also, given all the Russian hysteria on the pages of TOP, and now these idiotic tweets, shows the site is engaged in a planned and concerted effort to push the Russian hysteria to its limits and beyond. This is planned and dangerous. I figure it is good news that the assholes are going after Greenwald--maybe it indicates that they are getting more and more desperate.

Here is what TOP and its leader have come to:

[VIDEO:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrzMhU_4m-g]

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Bollox Ref's picture

@MrWebster

must be much like inhabiting the Bunker in "Downfall". Trying to make sense of the orders from the DNC/Bruno Ganz, with regard to the various imaginary armies that will resist the Soviet advance.

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Gëzuar!!
from a reasonably stable genius.

@MrWebster

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@LoneStarMike
is perfect.

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IowanX's picture

The fact remains that Buzzfeed--which is trying to do ok--is right on their story. Greenwald was right to publicize it. The D's, via the election of nominal leader Tom Perez, and their insane Russian pre-occupation, seem to have decided not to fix themselves, and the paid mouthpieces have *definitely* got the message.

When all this turns into a nothing-burger; when Trump's foreign policy rapprochement with Russia in Syria ends that conflict over the next year, and more or less buries ISIS (absent CIA re-arming ISIS, which I suspect Trump will try not to allow)--the egg on the face of the D' "Leadership" will be obvious for all to see.

Losing so many states, 900+ seats over the Obama years appears of now consequence. Losing to Donald Trump (!) appears to be of no consequence, because Russia! Blowing through a $B of cash appears to be of no consequence to D' Party Leaders. I DO expect consequences.

I just don't know what they will be. We D's--if somehow the Party can purge itself of its moneyed NeoLiberal and Neo Conservative fossils--can regain power. The old school is running this game, in partnership with their pals in the Deep State, and it's not going to work. Because, as Greenwald points out, and Buzzfeed reports... It's wrong!

This Russian gambit is the stupidest Hail-Mary-Pass I've ever seen in my life...and I can't believe that so many nominally *smart* people are going along for this particular play. Powerful Kool-Aide (or economic reasons) is the only thing that makes sense to me.

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@IowanX
Thank you so much for taking what I think is a hopeful view. If Trump figures out his troops in Syria are actually at war with the CIA, maybe he'll finish them off.

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Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@IowanX Not sure they really care. As long as the party can continue at all.
It'll be interesting to see what happens if the Republicans gain another few state legislatures. Then they could call a constitutional convention, if I understand the politics correctly.

People are saying that if the Dems lose a few more state legislatures, they will be essentially defunct as a party. But I'm not sure how. Would the Republicans make it illegal at their constitutional convention to be a Democrat, or something? ??

As long as they can exist as a party, I don't think they care how many seats they hold. They're not there to gain and preserve majorities. As Lieberman once said, "that's the old fashioned politics."

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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

The Aspie Corner's picture

are also calling for the heads of Julian Assange and Chelsea Manning. Sad state of affairs that place has become. Glad I'm not there anymore.

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Modern education is little more than toeing the line for the capitalist pigs.

Guerrilla Liberalism won't liberate the US or the world from the iron fist of capital.

@The Aspie Corner
that they got there, to the point of calling for the deaths of whistleblowers.

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@Linda Wood

Hey, since Hillary asked why they couldn't just drone Julian Assange, that made it OK to kill anyone producing uncomfortable truth the public is entitled to see but Those Who Matter would prefer to keep secret. And of course, they count themselves among Those...

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Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.

A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.

snoopydawg's picture

@The Aspie Corner @The Aspie Corner
coward and a traitor because he didn't stick around to face the consequences of releasing the data. How many times do people need to hear that he wouldn't be able to get a fair trial because of the espionage act?
Chelsea didn't get to have a decent defense because of this reason.
And look what happened to Drake, Kiirekou (sp) and the other people who were brought up on charges under the espionage act.
Well everyone except Petrayus who after giving classified information to his mistress didn't go to prison, he only had to pay a fine and spend two years on probation. He was being considered for a position in the Trump administration.

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Which AIPAC/MIC/pharma/bank bought politician are you going to vote for? Don’t be surprised when nothing changes.

dervish's picture

@LoneStarMike @snoopydawg so that helped him.

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"Obama promised transparency, but Assange is the one who brought it."

Amanda Matthews's picture

@The Aspie Corner
This crap? I missed that nonsense (I try not to give that place clicks) so I don't know why anyone would be wanting her scalp. Poor thing has been brutalised by this country enough. That's really chicken-shit behaviour. I use the term in its most derogatory form. Those people aren't Democrats'. They are the Left's Tea Party. Nasty, bitter, partisan, petty, hateful.

Back on the IPhone so please forgive any errors. For some reason the pages on this site won't fit on my phone''s screen anymore.

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I'm tired of this back-slapping "Isn't humanity neat?" bullshit. We're a virus with shoes, okay? That's all we are. - Bill Hicks

Politics is the entertainment branch of industry. - Frank Zappa

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@Amanda Matthews You're not supposed to do what she did during a Democratic administration.

You asked. Sad

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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

thanatokephaloides's picture

@The Aspie Corner

These same people are also calling for the heads of Julian Assange and Chelsea Manning. Sad state of affairs that place has become.

And they oppose a working-class Congress, too! I actually got castigated over there for daring to suggest that the subset of Americans who pay most of the taxes and do nearly all of the dying in the wars deserve to constitute the same proportion of Congress as we do of the society that Congress supposedly "represents".

As things now stand, unless you make six figures a year or better, and have a net worth of at least two million dollars liquid (i.e., independently of your home), you are taxed without representation, which is despotism and tyranny!

Sad

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"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar

"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides

detroitmechworks's picture

Of course, Disagreeing with the Democrat Party Line on Daily Kos is like being a Jew on a Neo-Nazi site. No matter what you do, or how nicely you do it... it's not going to end well.

Maybe it's the MSM equivalent of promoting the politically handicapped.

[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ma6y0BGjbiQ]

/snark

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I do not pretend I know what I do not know.

@detroitmechworks

'This video is unavailable.' Lot of it about, these days...

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Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.

A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.

snoopydawg's picture

Snowden and Chelsea , many people are reinventing George Bush as some type of hero because he spoke out against Trump.
The irony on that site would be funny if it wasn't so f'cked up.

This article says that people have basically lost their damned minds!

More recently, Bush earned accolades for saying he didn’t like “the racism” and “name-calling” of the Trump era, and that the media was “indispensable to democracy” — fairly innocuous comments that are apparently grounds for heroism when stated by Bush.

Much of Bush’s rehabilitation is, as the Washington Post recently documented, both a result of the fact that next to Trump, just about anyone compares favorably, and because of a nice speech Bush delivered in 2001 as he prepared to murder and torture thousands of Muslims, telling Americans that “Islam is peace,” speaking out against recent hate crimes, and assuring American Muslims he wouldn’t resurrect Roosevelt-style mass internment. (It is apparently an admirable and statesmanlike thing to pledge not to round up innocent people in camps without due process based on their religion).

Bush and his supporters have often said that history would vindicate his presidency. It hasn’t and it won’t, even if Trump takes us to new lows.

Here's a taste of the article

In 2011, he had to abruptly cancel a visit to Switzerland in 2011 after the risk of a criminal complaint against him for torture became a very real possibility. The same year, a seven-member war crimes tribunal in Kuala Lumpur found Bush and former British prime minister Tony Blair guilty of “crimes against peace” in absentia. Richard Clarke, a former top counterterrorism official under Bush, is on the record saying he thinks he and his administration committed war crimes.

Contrary to Bill Maher’s recent assertion that Bush was an “honorable man” who liberals “cried wolf” over, the well-known broad strokes of Bush’s presidency are enough to show that Bush was easily one of the most vicious presidents to ever take office. Bush and his underlings sold a campaign of outright lies to the public in order to embroil the United States in a totally unnecessary war that killed between 150,000 and 1 million Iraqis and destabilized an entire region.

I hope you read the rest of it and thank Dawg for this place!
https://www.jacobinmag.com/2017/03/george-bush-president-trump-iraq-war-...
Awe yes, let's not forget Katrina.

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Which AIPAC/MIC/pharma/bank bought politician are you going to vote for? Don’t be surprised when nothing changes.

@snoopydawg

I kinda suspect that Bush was due to be dusted off anyway. Heck, Hillary used the abuses of the Bush Admin as precedent for her own extensions of these in a freaking public debate. And it was Bush 2 who initiated the TPP corporate coup and the whole trend of PNAC attacks on other countries by skating on thin excuses, after all, making him a hero to psychopaths everywhere.

'...Bush and his supporters have often said that history Her story would vindicate his presidency. ...

There, fixed that for ya!

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Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.

A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.

k9disc's picture

I was thinking this might happen with the orgy of private development I expect to happen in support of "our" infrastructure.

I could just see a massive pile of corporate cash going into infrastructure and "public spaces".

Of course, it will be a Trojan Horse, like the smart phone and internet of things, but it will look amazing on paper.

I expect a Trojan Horse on the geopolitical front as well, but didn't expect him to do much there.

I did not expect so many Democrats to completely lose their shit and their minds, though.

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“Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat.” ~ Sun Tzu

@k9disc
but maybe there aren't so many of them as we're led to believe. I have a feeling the truth has a way of being there and that the stupidity of this Russia thing will eventually be self-evident.

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Deja's picture

@k9disc @k9disc non toxic water supplies and a non toxic way to get it to citizens/consumers, etc..

Oil and gas are the only things that matter here in the states, and killing for it elsewhere is so run of the mill, average Americans don't see that as a problem.

In other words, Trump will do us right by infrastructure. Sad

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@k9disc

As I understand it, it appears that a pile of public money and public property will be going into 'public/private' partnerships benefiting The Right Corporations, while I've also read that military infrastructure is considered to be what really needs building up. Them there saggy bridges might just as well burn as collapse...

Looks like TPTB will eventually be getting whatever Hillary may have promised them, regardless of whichever corporate-party puppet is in place, at least by the time that any of Trump's picks of whom they disapprove have been replaced by The Right Warmongers and corporate Reps. Assuming that what I've read is reasonably accurate, which may be difficult to determine in this ongoing propaganda war situation, although this scenario does not strike me as unTrumplike or, indeed, unlikely for any of the political Parasite Class.

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Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.

A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.

We were supposed to go along with the neoliberal, DLC, Wall Street clique because?
Because they could win, right?

Not only did Hillary Clinton lose -
But the Dems did not regain the Senate in a perfect year -
And didn't come close in the House.
Not to mention being in the weeds in 2/3s of state legislatures.

So, why are we supposed to support the Dems again ??

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@Jamawani
Great points. I hope you keep raising these issues.

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Dark Knight's picture

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@Dark Knight

Glad to hear that you don't miss them! Are you hurling pies or shoes? If pies, I came across a great recipe for Horse Semen-Cream Pie some years back.

Could this have triggered a great wave of Russia-hate among journalists on the NY Times?

This is a gotta-read for the circumstances, as (among other things) it involved the NYT reporter 'debunking' - without troubling to check - a well-researched report on exactly the sort of thing the US has been doing so long to people in their own countries - supporting a citizen massacre by one of their approved-of rulers. And this was back when people had some idea of what journalism was supposed to be.

The recipe for Equine Custard Cream Pie is in the sidebar.

http://exiledonline.com/feature-new-york-times-hack-eats-horse-sperm-pie/

eXile Classic / Feature Story / April 5, 2001
Feature: New York Times Hack Eats Horse Sperm Pie
By Matt Taibbi

... Yes, they chose Pobornik, a 15-year-old dark bay stallion with what his trainers called “totally mediocre” genes, and the poor horse never knew. He never knew what those men were really doing to him in the stable, and he never knew that it was his giant dollop of hot yellow sperm that would end up covering the face of an unsuspecting American correspondent named Michael Wines—the Worst Journalist in Russia, year 2001. ...

... Wines by this time had come full circle. In 1990 he was helping to cover up American-backed atrocities. By 1998 he was baldly claiming that they didn’t and couldn’t happen, because America was a “New World bent on ending inhumanity.” Then, when he was forced to admit that even this was not true, he came out into the open and just said it: our atrocities are better than your atrocities. ...

Revenge is, sometimes, a dish better not eaten at all... but re-reading this still gave me a badly-needed giggle I'd like to share.

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Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.

A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.

orlbucfan's picture

definitely before I signed on at TOPlague (2008). Rec'd!!

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Inner and Outer Space: the Final Frontiers.

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

to assassination and war.

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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

shaharazade's picture

at caucus99% still playing the game? It is a game you know as our politics here in Der Homeland and geopolitical are all fictional. There is no threat to the USA! USA! USA! other then people globally rising up ans saying enough is enough and kicking their asses right out of power. People have done this in the past and the world did not end.

Appeasing them has always led to death, misery and disastrous harm to the 'world as we find it'. So what if the Brit exit and other European exits from the bankster's from hell is the end of the EU? So what if centralized corporate America gets taken down. All of you who believe that any alternative to this world is bound to be racist, sexist and anti democratic are operating on fear of losing your place in the real fascistic NWO.

Maybe expand your imagination and realize that this world is not anything people should believe is the only possible reality. It's not. They always tell you it is but they are full of shit and armed and dangerous. Have courage and do not believe that this reality is in anyway anything that even deserves wasting your time and outrage on. All that does is keep it alive and feed it's utter madness. Think of the possibilities that exist outside the truths these fuckers call inevitable.

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Pluto's Republic's picture

@shaharazade

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____________________

The political system is what it is because the People are who they are. — Plato
janis b's picture

@shaharazade

So true.

I’m glad I caught your comment.

Have courage and do not believe that this reality is in anyway anything that even deserves wasting your time and outrage on. All that does is keep it alive and feed it's utter madness. Think of the possibilities that exist outside the truths these fuckers call inevitable.

[video:https://youtu.be/CV2O01XoobU]

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