Fearing a Trump Presidency is still for rubes.

Margaret Flowers and Kevin Zeese, both of the Green Party, have this to add to my last diary:

http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/donald_trump_frees_us_to_vote_as_we_...

The Flowers/ Zeese argument is more or less the one made by myself and a number of other people, except that Flowers/ Zeese dig up some more interesting stuff. Politico now claims (through Shane Goldmacher and Annie Karni) that "If the blue wall holds, (Clinton) needs only one swing state to win the White House." And the likely outcome of the forthcoming Clinton Presidency appears to be what Flowers and Zeese says it's going to be:

Clinton, on the other hand, will be a strong president, with a supportive Congress. She will be able to push her agenda, as Green Party presidential candidate Jill Stein calls it, of “war, Wall Street and Wal-Mart.” She really is the greater danger, because she will be the more effective evil, while Trump will be all rhetoric. Not only does a Clinton win mean a risk of more power for Wall Street through corporate trade agreements, it also poses a risk of more war, due to her belligerence toward Russia, China and multiple countries in the Middle East, Latin America and Africa.

Meanwhile according to Flowers/ Zeese there's a campaign, promising:

ON TUESDAY, AUGUST 2ND WE ALL RESIGN FROM THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY. Let's make it a SUPER TUESDAY to announce our INDEPENDENCE FROM THE OLIGARCHS!!!!!

And there's a pledge:

I pledge that if at any moment Bernie is no longer a candidate in the Democratic party, either because he concedes, or has been denied the nomination at the convention, I will immediately change my registration to the Green Party.

"Lesser of two evils" voting has greatly damaged America and the world. It gave us Bill Clinton, who gave us the Welfare Bill to impoverish the poorest of Americans, the Crime Bill to fill the (privatized) prisons, and the end of Glass-Steagall, which was a contributing cause of the collapse of 2008-2009. It gave us Barack Obama, who gave us mandatory insurance payments for insurance with high premiums, deductibles, and copays, impunity for illegal bank foreclosures, an expansion of Dick Cheney's war on the world, charter schools to smash the teacher's unions while failing to educate children, and so on. It's silenced the Left in America and killed off the antiwar movement while making a buffoon like Donald Trump look legitimate. It's going to give us Hillary Rodham Clinton.

Lesser of two evils voting routinely fails to incite enthusiasm for opponents to the worst the Republicans have to offer, and thus it offers us nothing close to an assurance that the "greater of two evils" will not prevail. That's going to happen this year, with record-low election turnout. But don't worry -- Clinton will still prevail, unless Sanders beats her to it.

Meanwhile the Clinton campaign continues to generate rubes.

Awhile ago, Jane Hamsher (who ran the now-defunct Firedoglake) ran some editorials on a topic she called the "Veal Pen." What is the "Veal Pen"? The "Veal Pen" is the social network that has all the nice liberal organizations working for conservative Democrats for right-wing ends. The "Veal Pen" has corrupted practically every non-governmental organization you can think of outside of the ACLU. So for instance:

Van Jones: A Moment of Truth for Liberal Institutions in the Veal Pen

Someone's Got To Liberate The Veal Pen

Enviros Go Veal Pen 2.0 with BP's Money

and so on. Y'all have search engines -- go find more.

At any rate, it's easy to see where all this "Veal Pen" stuff will lead. Next term, when heat waves are roasting Arizona and Texas to a crisp while forcing Florida underwater and prominent celebrities are telling the world "omigod we gotta do something about global warming," all of the nice liberal "Veal Pen" organizations will be lining up behind the politician who accepts 20% of her campaign warchest from Saudi Arabia to create some sort of toothless legislation that will leave the fossil fuel companies blameless as they continue to peddle their deadly product.

The "lesser of two evils" people will tell you: omigod we gotta stop Hitler from getting into power! But what actually happened to put Hitler into power? From Wikipedia:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_von_Hindenburg

Hindenburg retired again in 1919, but returned to public life in 1925 to be elected the second President of Germany. In 1932, although 84 years old and in poor health, Hindenburg was persuaded to run for re-election as German President, as he was considered the only candidate who could defeat Adolf Hitler. Hindenburg was re-elected in a runoff. He was opposed to Hitler and was a major player in the increasing political instability in the Weimar Republic that ended with Hitler's rise to power. He dissolved the Reichstag (parliament) twice in 1932 and finally, under pressure, agreed to appoint Hitler Chancellor of Germany in January 1933. In February, he signed off on the Reichstag Fire Decree, which suspended various civil liberties, and in March he signed the Enabling Act of 1933, which gave Hitler's regime arbitrary powers.

That's right, everyone. "Lesser of two evils" voting gave us Hitler.

Let's sum it up. If you want to be able to have some form of effective dissent about anything at all in America today, after 30 years of coerced voting for Dukakis, Clinton, Gore, Kerry, and Obama, voting for the "lesser of two evils" is about the least effective way of getting what you want. You're actually going to have to form your own political organizations, working for your own political interests, because the ones you've been supporting for the past decades have in all likelihood sold you out. You're going to have to make up for a lot of bad history. Will you have another chance like the one you're getting this year? No.

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Shahryar's picture

I put "not" in quotes because some people saw through him before I did. In their cases he was the lesser of two evils but for most of us he represented a potential major change after Bush.

Instead we found out he was a lying bamboozler who never intended to do any of the things he said in his campaign speeches.

Unless you mean 2012 Obama. Oh yeah...there he definitely was the lesser of two evils. But funny enough I'd prefer Romney over Hillary because in that race Romney would be the LOTE!

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Hetrose's picture

I feared we were had and in trouble when he answered a question as to who his heroes were by starting with Ronald Reagan. Yikes!

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MonetaryLeviathon's picture

him during his campaign for the 2008 election because, despite his eloquence (especially after 8 years of incoherent bush) , very few of his words had any content of substance much like hitlery is today. Sound bites like "we need to build a stronger middle class" without something of substance on how it is going to actually happen makes little sense when the trade agreements the they support are guaranteed to weaken and destroy the middle class. Kucinich was the only one worth voting for. The shit I got while on TOP for supporting Kucinich was something to behold

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B. Joe King's picture

than the "vote for hillary or the puppy gets it" that's going on there now?

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Gold is the wealth of kings; silver is the wealth of commoners; barter is the wealth of peasants; and debt is the wealth of slaves.

Cassiodorus's picture

think of Obama as the "lesser of two evils" because the charade emanating from the Republican Party looks worse. Whether he is such a thing is of no consequence: what is important is that this sort of thinking has dominated the brains of the nice liberals for thirty-six years, now, and so the reality deficit has piled up nice and high to the point where they can ignore everything that's wrong with a candidate whose foreign policy is borrowed from Henry Kissinger and who is going to put her husband Bill ("Peterson Foundation keynote speaker") Clinton in charge of the economy.

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"The war on Gaza, backed by the West, is a demonstration that the West is willing to cross all lines. That it will discard any nuance of humanity. That it is willing to commit genocide" -- Moon of Alabama

Pluto's Republic's picture

I just now noticed it and it felt an involuntary shiver.

What's strange is that it is the invisible driving force behind a number of disruptive events happening in some developed nations, including the US. But this seething populist anger is not only a forbidden topic (with no name), but the taboo against it is enforced pre-emptively: Observations that clearly emanate from the well of anger among the worker class are instantly deflected by the hysterical dog whistles = "racist", "misogynist", "right wing", "marxist", "homophobic", or "fascist".

The brainwashed elite are well trained, but this isn't going away. Our Overlords are displaying a fear I've never seen before.

Something is definitely up.

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____________________

The political system is what it is because the People are who they are. — Plato
Cassiodorus's picture

the dialectic of neoliberalism and nationalism. After thirty-six years of neoliberal governance with the Left in tow, should we be surprised that nationalism has reared its ugly head? Make America great again, y'know. In four years a smarter version of Trump will win the White House. Trump, however? No.

And, since the neoliberals have become the "lesser of two evils" across the globe (think, in Anthony Giddens' most dulcet tones, of the "Third Way"), the shining alternative for resentful proletarians has become nationalism. Meanwhile "incidences of racist behavior" (never mind the general racism of the whole setup) have multiplied fivefold in the UK since Brexit and all the nice liberals in the UK are babbling that the sole purpose of Brexit was to magnify the political fortunes of the one member of the UK Parliament who belongs to UKIP. Oh and according to Vox the whole thing is ostensibly just about "irrational xenophobia" because the well-off as well as the poorly-off both voted Leave, never mind the life-situations of the working-class as a whole.

If we socialists admit that nationalism is a crap substitute for socialism, will the nice liberals admit that neoliberalism is a crap substitute for reasoned thought about the future?

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"The war on Gaza, backed by the West, is a demonstration that the West is willing to cross all lines. That it will discard any nuance of humanity. That it is willing to commit genocide" -- Moon of Alabama

MonetaryLeviathon's picture

the exact opposite of neoliberalism and, to me, seems like a natural reaction to perpetual and incessant political ignoring of the citizens' desires for a national direction in a different direction. We will see more of it showing itself and in far greater strength the world over in my estimation given the overwhelming level of ignorance these international entities such as the IMF, EU, World Bank, Entire US federal government, UN and the plethora of other alphabet soup groups trying to take over the world and dictate national policies by distant bureaucratic appointed neoliberal entities given power without election.

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Cassiodorus's picture

(nationalism is) the exact opposite of neoliberalism and, to me, seems like a natural reaction to perpetual and incessant political ignoring of the citizens' desires for a national direction in a different direction.

Just as the writer is about to say something, the sentence drowns itself in its own abstraction. (I've seen a lot of student writing that preferred to say nothing with the idea in mind that abstraction is better than saying something concrete. Problem is, it isn't.) Here I'd like to suggest an alternative direction for sentences like this: nationalism is the easy way out for countries suffocated by a predatory "global governance" which screws the public for the sake of bankers. There is of course another way -- socialist "global governance" -- but nobody recommends that anymore.

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"The war on Gaza, backed by the West, is a demonstration that the West is willing to cross all lines. That it will discard any nuance of humanity. That it is willing to commit genocide" -- Moon of Alabama

Wink's picture

double duty as the VeePee.

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the little things you can do are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-2.1) All about building progressive media.

Bisbonian's picture

He made a speech then about Afghanistan that completely changed my mind, (I could find if if I wanted to look badly enough), and I voted Green (again).

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"I’m a human being, first and foremost, and as such I’m for whoever and whatever benefits humanity as a whole.” —Malcolm X

Just when I almost made an impassioned speech on how evil HRC really was someone went on PBS (I was channel flipping) and described Paul Ryan's "health care proposal - he plans to privatize Medicare and Medicaid. To put it bluntly this would be at best financially disastrous for me, at worst fatal.
And since the Rs will retake the Senate in 2018 - especially if HRC is POTUS - I am personally doomed, at best by 2024.

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On to Biden since 1973

Cassiodorus's picture

Hillary Clinton is not such a sure thing as far as inspiring opponents is concerned. But remember: it's only hopeless if we fear Trump.

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"The war on Gaza, backed by the West, is a demonstration that the West is willing to cross all lines. That it will discard any nuance of humanity. That it is willing to commit genocide" -- Moon of Alabama

Alligator Ed's picture

Hillary Clinton is not such a sure thing as far as inspiring opponents is concerned.

Hillary not only inspires her opponents with a ferocity unseen in recent politics. Although independents dislike her (and Trump), Republicans hate her. Trump is a xenophobe, racist, and buffoon--but he is an excellent marketer. Yeah, he has numerous flaws, which I do not defend (e.g., Trump University). But he will shred--absolutely shred Hillary in debate. Let's see Her Heinous avoid those pesky general election debates (unless she is in prison). HRC, backed by the most awesome political cabal in modern history can barely hold her lead in the preconvention polling. Every day, another HRC scandal. Trump may be guilty of bad business practices and fraud. But Medusa is guilty of fraud, though better orchestrated (hidden) than Trump's AND she has betrayed national security. A recent poll showed that 81% of the population are now worried about domestic terroristic attacks--from ISIS, Al-Qaeda, Al-Nusra, and a host of others. Believe it or not, Americans are drawn to Trump's factless assertions of toughness against enemies foreign. How is HRC going to counter that when a ton of hacked secret emails belie her competence?

Count me in with the "rubes" because, even though I intensely dislike Trump and would never vote for him, he has managed to pull the wool over the eyes of the very sheep shorn by our great Corporatist society.

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Cassiodorus's picture

Don't get me wrong, I write in stream-of-consciousness mode too. But Clinton will not inspire much opposition among elites, while the nice (D) people remind us that the (R) is always worse. And Sanders already shredded Clinton in debates -- it's not really going to make a lot of difference.

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"The war on Gaza, backed by the West, is a demonstration that the West is willing to cross all lines. That it will discard any nuance of humanity. That it is willing to commit genocide" -- Moon of Alabama

Alligator Ed's picture

She is one of them.

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switch nominees? There's a lot of talk of not nominating Trump. Even the Repugs hate him. He's a loser. He can't even beat the despised Hillary. So a last minute switch to a least scary Repug would all but ensure a Repug president, a Repug Senate, a Repug Supreme Court of years to come. And more gerrymandering come the census.

You think the Repugs don't realize all this?

Obama's final act that destroys this nation will be not allowing Clinton to be prosecuted. Sanders is the Dem Party's only hope.

But as for me, I registered Green Party two days ago. Just couldn't wait till #BernDay. So whatever happens in this kabuki theater, I won't be part of it.

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Deja's picture

But maybe in your state you had a deadline prior to the convention?

If Medusa is the nom, I'll vote Jill. In my state, I don't have to register as this or that. I can even vote for members of any party on the ballot in all but primaries. So, I'll be voting my conscience in the general. I'm guessing you will too.

Too bad you switched so soon.

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Alphalop's picture

May being the operative word. I am still trying to find a reason to stay in the party until the Florida Primary but since I am not in Tim's district I don't think I have a progressive Democrat to vote for.

It's not looking like it's going to be a problem though as trying to find a true progressive Democrat anymore is harder than the finding the proverbial needle.

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"I used to vote Republican & Democrat, I also used to shit my pants. Eventually I got smart enough to stop doing both things." -Me

snoopydawg's picture

Especially Utah. Most of our congress takes their orders from the Mormon church.
And for being a religion that is supposed to stand for family values and looking out for the poor, it decided not to expand Medicaid.
They dithered around for years trying to find a way to get a third party involved instead of just straight Medicaid. They recently passed a bill that will only cover 16,000 people and they will be people who have recently gotten out of prison or have addiction problems. Gawd how I hated moving back here from California. I used to have nightmares about I had moved back to Utah and they came true. Sad

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Which AIPAC/MIC/pharma/bank bought politician are you going to vote for? Don’t be surprised when nothing changes.

Cassiodorus's picture

Have you checked out the University of Utah? Last I heard Minqi Li, a solid marxist, still works in the economics department there.

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"The war on Gaza, backed by the West, is a demonstration that the West is willing to cross all lines. That it will discard any nuance of humanity. That it is willing to commit genocide" -- Moon of Alabama

snoopydawg's picture

Sorry, I don't understand what you are asking me..

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Which AIPAC/MIC/pharma/bank bought politician are you going to vote for? Don’t be surprised when nothing changes.

Cassiodorus's picture

Do they offer a free lecture series?

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"The war on Gaza, backed by the West, is a demonstration that the West is willing to cross all lines. That it will discard any nuance of humanity. That it is willing to commit genocide" -- Moon of Alabama

Cassiodorus's picture

Do they offer a free lecture series?

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"The war on Gaza, backed by the West, is a demonstration that the West is willing to cross all lines. That it will discard any nuance of humanity. That it is willing to commit genocide" -- Moon of Alabama

B. Joe King's picture

Rocky Anderson was alright.
I lived in Utah for a few years and it's effectively a theocracy with the mormon church functioning as a pseudo-welfare program for members. Tithing is an interesting thing when you consider that the church and state are effectively in bed together--okay, maybe fully clothed in separate beds Biggrin --isn't that tithe essentially an extra tax?

I've thought that socialism would be a very natural fit for mormons, shame they can't get past the nonsense that is spewed about it.

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Gold is the wealth of kings; silver is the wealth of commoners; barter is the wealth of peasants; and debt is the wealth of slaves.

Cassiodorus's picture

I'd be interested to know if such a thing exists.

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"The war on Gaza, backed by the West, is a demonstration that the West is willing to cross all lines. That it will discard any nuance of humanity. That it is willing to commit genocide" -- Moon of Alabama

Bisbonian's picture

But less scary, as in less obviously dangerous, there are plenty.

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"I’m a human being, first and foremost, and as such I’m for whoever and whatever benefits humanity as a whole.” —Malcolm X

Cassiodorus's picture

are offering us imperialist theocracy. How obvious do you want it?

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"The war on Gaza, backed by the West, is a demonstration that the West is willing to cross all lines. That it will discard any nuance of humanity. That it is willing to commit genocide" -- Moon of Alabama

Unabashed Liberal's picture

regarding voucherizing Medicare, etc.

IOW, among some corporatist and fiscally conservative Dems, it is a bipartisan goal.

Mollie


“I believe in the redemptive powers of a dog’s love. It is in recognition of each dog’s potential to lift the human spirit and therefore– to change society for the better, that I fight to make sure every street dog has its day.”
--Stasha Wong, Secretary, Save Our Street Dogs (SOSD)

The SOSD Fantastic Four

Available For Adoption, Save Our Street Dogs, SOSD

Cole - SOSD

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Everyone thinks they have the best dog, and none of them are wrong.

Democratic Senators can filibuster any change to Medicare and Social Security that they wish to filibuster.

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Obama has given us Venezuela as a clear threat to US national security and signed into law the bill that will sink the Central States Pension Fund and cut, or curtail, those retirees monthly pension checks. Clinton will be worse.

I don't speculate what Trump will or will not do because I don't believe that he knows. It seems the RW media machine is still hoping he won't be the nominee because they feel that he's not one of them and not RW enough.

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"The justness of individual land right is not justifiable to those to whom the land by right of first claim collectively belonged"

snoopydawg's picture

Trump wouldn't promise to privatize social security. And the kosbots wrote a diary praising his endorsement as well as other military officials. What does that say about how they think Hillary will take the direction of this country.
I only recently found out that Clinton was getting ready to sign legislation to privatize social security, but thankfully Monica Lewinsky saved us from that.
Hillary has said that she knows how to work with the republicans and since they want to privatize everything, she will reach across the isle and work with them to get it done.
It just boggles my mind that the people who voted for Obama over her before because of her actions during the Clinton administration are now saying that she has evolved since then and has become more progressive. There's a diary on LOF today that says that.
And they say that she's more qualified to be president because of her actions during her time as SOS.
And what were those actions? Promoting the TPP, fracking, pushing Obama to be more aggressive when it came to wars and putting more troops in Afghanistan and Syria.
And what she did with the foundation during that time doesn't bother them because her foundation gives so much money to charity and helps people.
It has given 10% of the money for AIDS drugs in Africa. Other than that, where else has her foundation gone that has made people's lives better? I haven't heard anything. Has anyone else?
All I see is that the people and corporations that donate to it gets deals with other country's governments.
Or they make their own charity organizations that do the same things. Help others get rich.
This article is one example of this.
http://www.politico.com/story/2016/04/teneo-final-221807
And how was it legal for Abedin to work for the state department, the foundation and Teneo all at the same time?

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Which AIPAC/MIC/pharma/bank bought politician are you going to vote for? Don’t be surprised when nothing changes.

Pricknick's picture

it shows how little you have to offer.
Both campaigns are vacant of any ideas that will help the commoners. They don't care.

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Regardless of the path in life I chose, I realize it's always forward, never straight.

Her whole campaign has been attacking Trump. Even had Elizabeth Warren out there to help with that meme (think: goofy). What happened to the "most qualified person to EVER run for president?" If the best she's got is to tear down Trump, she's got nuttin'.

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...which has been a mixture of fear, triumphalism and identity politics. Not necessarily in that order, since I haven't yet figured out which is worse. The triumphalism came first however, just to establish her preeminence before the campaign even started. Then identity politics was used to attack Sanders as he gained strength, and now it's shifted primarily to fear-of-Trump, though her minions haven't let up that much on the other two. Nice way to not inspire turnout in November...

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The corporate media say that Trump’s campaign is imploding. But he is still within the margin of error versus Hillary in national polls (Bernie no longer included, apparently).

Poll: Clinton's National Lead Over Trump Narrows To 5 Points

Of course the Dems can probably count on the "blue wall" in the Electoral College. Which is why the outcome of the presidential election isn't going to match the national polls.

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"We've done the impossible, and that makes us mighty."

Cassiodorus's picture

Now if we could make Jill Stein popular...

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"The war on Gaza, backed by the West, is a demonstration that the West is willing to cross all lines. That it will discard any nuance of humanity. That it is willing to commit genocide" -- Moon of Alabama

Cassiodorus's picture

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/onpolitics/2016/06/29/hillar...

Poll finds Americans don't think Clinton or Trump will be good president

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"The war on Gaza, backed by the West, is a demonstration that the West is willing to cross all lines. That it will discard any nuance of humanity. That it is willing to commit genocide" -- Moon of Alabama

Hawkfish's picture

The Stein campaign is trying to get her onto Samantha Bee's show via petition. Gary Johnson was on recently, so it seems plausible.

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We can’t save the world by playing by the rules, because the rules have to be changed.
- Greta Thunberg

Wesley Clark, Edwards, Biden, and Obama, whom I wanted to take out Hillary. Anybody but Hillary.
By 2012, it was obvious Obama was a tool of the MIC, Wall Street, and Big Oil. I didn't vote for him as LOTE. I voted for him because I thought (foolishly) that once he could not run again, he might do something positive for the class of people he knew the best. Us. The 99%. I thought (foolishly) he would realize what his food stamp mom did for him, for his sister, that it might translate into his being free to help, not destroy US. I didn't quite get the memo on his NSA spying on Occupy until it was just too late.
He will become a billionaire, and that was his goal.
With a full slate of Dems, Senate, House, Executive branch, Medicare and Social Security will vanish, except as private business, in 10 years.
In the year 2525, all their money will be spent on water. They will be as parched as all of us.

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"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981

Pricknick's picture

is little more than wishful thinking.
Nothing serious will be done on the climate except make it worse. Your children's grandchildren will likely be the last of the human race if it makes it that far.

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Regardless of the path in life I chose, I realize it's always forward, never straight.

MonetaryLeviathon's picture

everything will be given brawndo for thirst

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paradigmshift's picture

That is what you will get in policy.

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"First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win."

I am the end of the line.
I thought I could help my neighbors and their kids.
Nope.
All it will take is one accident, one "treatable" but incurable illness, and I will be done.

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"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981

Alphalop's picture

I saw the direction the world was headed and decided it was time to Chlorinate my gene pool.

I just couldn't see subjecting my future progeny to the shit that I thought was likely to be coming.

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"I used to vote Republican & Democrat, I also used to shit my pants. Eventually I got smart enough to stop doing both things." -Me

TheOtherMaven's picture

Mother Nature shut the baby-works down. There was never a right time, a right man, a right anything. And just as well.

My sister and my brother have one child each, and neither one has reproduced yet.

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There is no justice. There can be no peace.

and almost all of my friends who opted out of having kids - the world population has tripled in my lifetime. (Of my father's 5 daughters and two stepsons, only one has had a child and then only one child. We did our part!)

There's another pressing subject that was shut down by the 1%: overpopulation is probably the root of many of our planet's problems. But capitalism requires a constantly increasing demand, which means a constantly increasing population.

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WindDancer13's picture

of Gary Johnson...ya never know. He has said that he will pass the TPP/ Nuff said.

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We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit.--Aristotle
If there is no struggle there is no progress.--Frederick Douglass

featheredsprite's picture

I've been sharing posts and news articles about her on fb and tw but that's probably only a drop in the bucket.

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Life is strong. I'm weak, but Life is strong.

one drop at a time. At spme point, those drops reach critical mass and become a deluge.

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Roger Fox's picture

Jill has to raise more money than Bernie did, quite her job and throw herself into the race.

No one in the Green Party has the skill set to make that happen.

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FDR 9-23-33, "If we cannot do this one way, we will do it another way. But do it we will.

Cassiodorus's picture

You knew that, right?

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"The war on Gaza, backed by the West, is a demonstration that the West is willing to cross all lines. That it will discard any nuance of humanity. That it is willing to commit genocide" -- Moon of Alabama

Alphalop's picture

party, we should also support and aid the greens to the best of our ability.

We all benefit, we need two left wing parties to compensate for the two right wing ones we currently have and they would be great to build a coalition with.

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"I used to vote Republican & Democrat, I also used to shit my pants. Eventually I got smart enough to stop doing both things." -Me

Pluto's Republic's picture

…(a national voters' block) that can destroy any party or any candidate in any election anywhere in the nation — if they back bullshit.

It's a lot faster and easier that building a party. And it's a lot more powerful in a nation where voter turnout is suppressed.

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____________________

The political system is what it is because the People are who they are. — Plato

when elections are rigged?

I'm at the point where I think only a massive uprising could bring the change we need. The fix is in. We can elect as many Bern progressives as we want down ticket, but I'm not the only one who has lost faith in the system altogether.

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Roger Fox's picture

Voting machines for 11 years. I do campaign field opeations, 14 campaigns since 2004.

We need to overwhelm them.

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FDR 9-23-33, "If we cannot do this one way, we will do it another way. But do it we will.

MonetaryLeviathon's picture

I'm in the no faith in the federal government camp too and have been for quite a long time ... so are a shitload of republicans who are well aware of Trump's flaws but want the globalism stopped so badly are willing to overlook trumps flaws just to stop TTIP and TPP though they seem to have forgotten their total irresponsibility of leaving the war criminal bush in office so fucking long. I read of lot of their comments on econ blogs and they are just as upset about the system as most bernie supporters and others as well.

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Roger Fox's picture

But that was the only comment made in the last month here at C99, that clearly demonstrates the path forward, made by someone who understands the need to create and wield political power....am I right?

Way too many at C99, do not understand in a pure fashion, the DIRE FUCKING need to create and wield political power. Leaving the Dem party, going green, forming a new party, does nothing, will not succeed and will suck resources and time and valuable people from the only true solution.....

Creating and wielding political power to crush and overwhelm the Oligarchy.

The revolution will not be televised.
The revolution will be no rerun brothers and sisters.
The revolution will be live.

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FDR 9-23-33, "If we cannot do this one way, we will do it another way. But do it we will.

We've had two left-wing parties for many years, Peace & Freedom and the Greens. Neither has made a dent other than a tiny sprinkling of local races. Also neither has made much effort at organizing outside of putting up candidates every election cycle. I seem to see a connection there somewhere...

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in the late '60's. And, we DID accomplish something big. For months, I carried a petition to change the voting age to 18. Congress passed the 26th Amendment in March, 1971, and the states quickly ratified it. I may be wrong on the facts, but I'm pretty sure it was the Peace and Freedom Party that led the push for change in CA.

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Roger Fox's picture

There has been 3 major parties in this country.

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FDR 9-23-33, "If we cannot do this one way, we will do it another way. But do it we will.

Roger Fox's picture

There has been 3 major parties in this country.

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FDR 9-23-33, "If we cannot do this one way, we will do it another way. But do it we will.

Roger Fox's picture

Whigs, Republicans, Democrats.

So don't think for a second that a new party is the cure all for the Oligarchy, its not, at least its not unless more people understand what Bernie did.

Bernie showed people on Main St how to create and wield political power.

Now we need to employ that lesson and create and wield political power. That is number one, period. Leave the Dems, register Green, form a 3rd party are all tertiary and potentially distractions.

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FDR 9-23-33, "If we cannot do this one way, we will do it another way. But do it we will.

Cassiodorus's picture

"Third party" is nothing to desire. What would be nice would be a realignment like what happened in 1852-1856. As things get worse, moreover, it's fair to assume that the assumption that they're going to stay the same will start to look more wobbly.

At any rate, when people here say they want to ditch the Democrats, it's because for the past thirty years politicians like, say, John Kerry have been major players in putting America on the downward slope toward what Sheldon Wolin calls "inverted totalitarianism." Now that Bernie Sanders has gotten a lot of people involved in an alternative to the neoliberal strategy of the past thirty years of circling the wagons and defending the profit rate until the capitalist system poisons what's left of planet Earth past all hopes of retrieval, they've discovered that the systemic rot goes all the way down. And so of course they want nothing to do with a party that appears to be corrupted beyond redemption, and which will get worse once Ms. Veruca Salt has gotten the Presidency her right-wing daddy Hugh Rodham no doubt promised her when she was a Goldwater Girl.

And, of these Sanders supporters, a lot of them have spent the past thirty years thinking the Democratic Party was their organization when in fact it was an organization that, as Lance Selfa tells us, grants them a "seat at the table" (and has done so since its inception) so that their actual wishes can be safely ignored.

So if, say, people like me don't understand how working for John Kerry is "wielding power," perhaps that offers something of an explanation for why.

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"The war on Gaza, backed by the West, is a demonstration that the West is willing to cross all lines. That it will discard any nuance of humanity. That it is willing to commit genocide" -- Moon of Alabama

mimi's picture

has lost the nomination, and combine this with a massive love letter/resolution to demand Jill Stein to run (hopefully with Sanders) in a Independent Green Democratic Socialist Party. All planned for the same day to make it impossible to ignore. Green, Democratic Socialists, left leaning Independents must unite. They can just rename the Green Party to reflect that kind of coalition. Well, in my childish pipe dreams at least they can do something like it. I just can't stand that they are fractious instead of uniting.

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Roger Fox's picture

Are a waste.

Leave the Dem party.... to accomplish what?

Heres one thing it accomplishes, the next Bernie that runs, as a dem...... that you want to vote for in the primary..... is going to make you want to register dem again......

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FDR 9-23-33, "If we cannot do this one way, we will do it another way. But do it we will.

Is 36 years the lucky year if we stay?

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"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon

Roger Fox's picture

And please consider reading my other comments in this thread.

Bernie was my 14th campaign since.....

Roger Fox began building his political resume at 14, volunteering on George McGovern's 1972 presidential campaign.

In 2004, the 58-year-old Harrison resident was a paid staffer in Broward County, Fla., for John Kerry's presidential campaign. Since then, he's been involved in 14 political races throughout the East Coast.

http://www.lohud.com/story/news/politics/elections/2016/04/02/new-york-p...

I know how to create and wield political power, I'm good at it. I need millions of people to help. What party you belong to doesn't matter, if you're not creating political power.

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FDR 9-23-33, "If we cannot do this one way, we will do it another way. But do it we will.

If you have so much power, what has your power stopped? Did you end the war? Keep the Clintons from stealing the election? I don't mean to be argumentative. We are all entitled to our own delusions. People have power over the corrupt politics of this country isn't one of mine. I left this party somewhere in 90s after that pos bill clinton won the WH claiming to be a Democrat. I still voted for them because "lesser of the evils". That accomplished the absolute opposite of what I wanted. 2016, fuck them. If they are lucky, I'll vote values and Green. If I'm really pissed and more interested in the Norquist School of Politics, I'll vote for Trump. My #1 goal is to destroy the Clintons and their New Democrat machine.

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"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon

snoopydawg's picture

Scaremongering about Donald Trump to Silence the Concerns of the Young and the Poor
by Benjamin Studebaker

I started seeing it a few weeks ago, when Daily Kos told its contributors that after March 15th, they were no longer allowed to robustly criticize Hillary Clinton from the left. As Donald Trump continues to win, win, and win some more, it has only intensified. First they asked Bernie Sanders supporters to unite behind Clinton. Now they’re accusing Sanders supporters of being privileged if they resist. And from there, it’s just a small step to calling Sanders’ people enablers of racism, sexism, or even fascism. If you haven’t seen these arguments yet, you will soon. The arguments being peddled are very poorly constructed. They rely on a mix of fear and bias toward the near.

Boy did that author nail what has happened to DK.

Many of the most damaging economic policies have been enacted by democrats, such as welfare reform, the Commodities Futures Modernization Act, the repeal of Glass-Steagall, the Budget Control Act of 2011, and so on. People allow democrats to get away with hurting poor and working people because they falsely assume that democrats are reliably on their side. Reagan and Bush could never enact welfare reform–only Clinton could do something that horrifying.
But now, for the first time in 40 years, there are candidates running who are not neoliberal and offer real ideological alternatives. Bernie Sanders offers to return us to the left egalitarian Keynesianism that made America great in the 50’s and 60’s, and he even promises to include marginalized groups in the prosperity this time. Breaking up the big banks, tough new financial regulations, the financial transaction tax, a 50% top rate of tax, union expansion, huge infrastructure stimulus, $15 minimum wage, tuition-free college, single payer healthcare–these are policies designed to restore Americans of all classes, races, genders, and other backgrounds to prosperity. Hillary Clinton is against all of these policies. She either does not understand the economic problems everyday Americans face, or she does not care.

I don't think that she cares about anything but repaying her donors and getting more power.

Great article, read the whole thing.

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Which AIPAC/MIC/pharma/bank bought politician are you going to vote for? Don’t be surprised when nothing changes.

featheredsprite's picture

A judge has ruled that 3rd parties only have to get 5,000 signatures instead of the former over 21,000.

So let's go out and get PA, NJ, VA, and CT!

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Life is strong. I'm weak, but Life is strong.

Cassiodorus's picture

I like Carl.

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"The war on Gaza, backed by the West, is a demonstration that the West is willing to cross all lines. That it will discard any nuance of humanity. That it is willing to commit genocide" -- Moon of Alabama

Cassiodorus's picture

Here's the new link:

http://www.occupyliberals.com/2016/07/03/washington-post-still-good-chan...

Sanders wins the nomination, and all bets are off.

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"The war on Gaza, backed by the West, is a demonstration that the West is willing to cross all lines. That it will discard any nuance of humanity. That it is willing to commit genocide" -- Moon of Alabama

Zinman's picture

We will be in turmoil, some saying we should have a do-over on her nomination (via a big Super Delegate revolt), some saying we should tough it out with Hillary, others calling for variants of Bernie running Green with Jill Stein (my choice).

Has anybody polled the various options?

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Be a Friend of the Earth, cherish it and protect it.

featheredsprite's picture

she might get the nom anyway.

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Life is strong. I'm weak, but Life is strong.

tourniquet's picture

who the fuck names their vineyard "Eric Trump Wine Manufacturing"???

REALLY?????

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GIANT ALL-CAPS SIG