Brexit fallout: The Elites Lash Out

There are all sorts of stories about how Brexit might be annulled.
The most interesting one is how Scotland will veto it.

Scottish First Minister Nicola Sturgeon has vowed to protect Scotland against the "devastating" fallout of Brexit and hinted her government may use legal means to try to block Britain's departure from the EU....
In a round of broadcast interviews, she also said it was possible that the Scottish parliament may have to give its consent to laws to extricate Britain from the EU.
Asked whether she would consider asking Scottish MPs not to give that consent, she replied: "Of course."
Asked on the BBC if she could imagine the fury of British voters who had made the choice to leave the EU if the Scottish parliament blocked Brexit, Sturgeon said:
"I can, but it's perhaps similar to the fury of many people in Scotland right now as we face the prospect of being taken out of the European Union against our will."

I question both whether the fury "is the same" and whether Scotland can actually do that.
However, the consequences of Scottish politicians thwarting the will of a majority of British citizens would be devastating. It would encourage violence and extremism.
It would make much more political sense to demand a new independence referendum.

In a poll for Scotland's Sunday Post, ScotPulse found that 59 percent would vote for independence.

There is talk of Northern Ireland seeking independence as well.
The news media is portraying this as something tragic. I think of it as national self-determination, and a good thing.
The history of their forced alliance with England is one filled with exploitation and genocidal levels of murder.

There are three other methods of overturning Brexit being considered.

Members of Parliament vote against it
A re-do referendum
EU concessions

Each method has its problems.
Firstly, the referendum was non-binding, but the danger of ignoring a voter mandate means lots of politicians losing re-election.
A second referendum is possible, but it won't come from an online petition.
As for EU concessions...

Unlikely. So far all the indications are that Berlin, Paris and Brussels want a quick separation. “It’s not an amicable divorce, but it never really was a close love affair anyway,” said EU Commission President Jean-Claude Juncker.

The EU is being arrogant on this matter, and that's the primary problem. Working class troubles and concerns are being ignored and when the poor don't act according to the wishes of the elites they are ridiculed, as Glenn Greenwald explains.

Corrupt elites always try to persuade people to continue to submit to their dominance in exchange for protection from forces that are even worse. That’s their game. But at some point, they themselves, and their prevailing order, become so destructive, so deceitful, so toxic, that their victims are willing to gamble that the alternatives will not be worse, or at least, they decide to embrace the satisfaction of spitting in the faces of those who have displayed nothing but contempt and condescension for them.
There is no one, unifying explanation for Brexit, or Trumpism, or the growing extremism of various stripes throughout the West, but this sense of angry impotence — an inability to see any option other than smashing those responsible for their plight — is undoubtedly a major factor. As Bevins put it, supporters of Trump, Brexit, and other anti-establishment movements “are motivated not so much by whether they think the projects will actually work, but more by their desire to say FUCK YOU” to those they believe (with very good reason) have failed them.
Obviously, those who are the target of this anti-establishment rage — political, economic, and media elites — are desperate to exonerate themselves, to demonstrate that they bear no responsibility for the suffering masses that are now refusing to be compliant and silent. The easiest course to achieve that goal is simply to demonize those with little power, wealth, or possibility as stupid and racist: This is only happening because they are primitive and ignorant and hateful, not because they have any legitimate grievances or because I or my friends or my elite institutions have done anything wrong.
Because that reaction is so self-protective and self-glorifying, many U.S. media elites — including those who knew almost nothing about Brexit until 48 hours ago — instantly adopted it as their preferred narrative for explaining what happened, just as they’ve done with Trump, Corbyn, Sanders, and any number of other instances where their entitlement to rule has been disregarded. They are so persuaded of their own natural superiority that any factions who refuse to see it and submit to it prove themselves, by definition, to be regressive, stunted, and amoral.

Obviously this reaction will play well with the choir and places like DKos, but it won't change a single mind.
If even Brexit can't convince the EU to reform, then that proves the need for Brexit.

Interestingly, the fallout from Brexit is falling most heavily on Labour.

The political fallout from Britain’s stunning decision to leave the European Union intensified Sunday, with debate escalating inside the governing Conservative Party over choosing a successor to Prime Minister David Cameron and a coup attempt emerging against the leader of the opposition Labour Party....
Overnight came news that Labour Party leader Jeremy Corbyn had fired one of the most senior members of his leadership team, Hilary Benn, the shadow foreign secretary. The sacking of Benn, whom Corbyn accused of plotting against him, led to the resignation of another member of Labour’s leadership team, with British news organizations reporting that additional resignations would be coming....
Corbyn faces a vote of no confidence among his parliamentary peers this week, but has vowed to stand firm against efforts to oust him. He enjoys widespread support from Labour’s rank-and-file membership, setting up what could be a potentially disastrous civil war within the party just a year after he was chosen to lead it.

The criticism of Corbyn is that he "didn't try hard enough" to endorse a losing measure that was rejected by Britain's working class.
When you think about it, that seems to be a very bizarre and out of touch criticism against the leader of a Labour Party. It also goes a long ways toward explaining why Labour lost so badly in the last election (before Corbyn).

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best. I particularly liked his citation of Hayes' book.

As Chris Hayes warned in his 2012 book Twilight of the Elites, “Given both the scope and depth of this distrust [in elite institutions], it’s clear that we’re in the midst of something far grander and more perilous than just a crisis of government or a crisis of capitalism. We are in the midst of a broad and devastating crisis of authority.”

The great irony is that Hayes has now been enlisted into the ranks of the Hillbots.

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chuck utzman

TULSI 2020

This article didn't miss a thing. It explained Trump, the media, everything. This was one of my favorite paragraphs.

"A sizable portion of the establishment-liberal commentariat in the West has completely lost the ability to engage with any sort of dissent from their orthodoxies, or even to understand those who disagree with them. They are capable of nothing beyond adopting the most smug and self-satisfied posture, then spouting clichés to dismiss their critics as ignorant, benighted bigots. Like the people of the West who bomb Muslim countries and then express confusion that anyone wants to attack them back, the most simple-minded of these establishment media liberals are constantly enraged that the people they endlessly malign as ignorant haters refuse to vest them with the respect and credibility to which they are naturally entitled."

Greenwalds recap of what is so wrong in the US and globally is so why we cannot let Clinton and the neolibs get away with stealing this election. We have to torpedo her anyway we can.

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"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon

Just for the heck of it, I looked him up on Dkos - he had one diary and 1 comment relative to a film shown at NN # 1 in 2006. he attended and spoke at that Netroots Nation conference.

By 2008 he might have been on the outs with the democratic party and NN tends to be mostly establishment. This happened in 2008 and was posted on Dkos

Glenn

I went to Yearly Kos the last few years - and I know Arianna went last year - but I’m not going to Netroots Nation this year. I was supposed to be on what I thought was the best panel yet that I’ve been on anywhere - it was one to discuss Bush lawbreaking and what should be done about it in the next administration.

The panel was going to have John Dean, Daniel Ellsburg and Elizabeth Holtzman — 3 of the most significant figures of the Watergate era. Ellsburg in particular is one of the greatest American political heroes of the last three decades, in my view. It was to be moderated by Majorie Cohn, who wrote a great book detailing Bush crimes.

But the Conference rejected the panel. I really don’t understand why. That would be a panel I’d travel to hear — let alone one that I would think Netroots Nation would want to have. Since the reason I was going was to participate on that panel, now I’m not.

I know that Max Blumenthal will have a panel this year on I/P issue and BDS, etc.

I hope that Bernie shows up as well.

I am going. Anyone else here going? Would like to meet you.

Suggest following Glenn on twitter he is now almost up to 700,000 followers

I don't know why, but I looked up Dkos and they now have 200K followers. They have been going up very slowly and started way before Glenn

Tasini who wrote the book on Bernie sent out a Dkos mail asking who was going to NN16 and if possible to get together there. I responded that I am going and would like to get together with others in the Bernie movement

NN16 is on July 14 - 17 in St. Louis and is before the Dem convention so it might be very interesting if Hillary emails, or Hillary voting fraud become an issue.

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mimi's picture

Bernie Sanders will come to Netroot Nations 2016? Really? And Max Blumenthal? I am confused. Wouldn't have thought that to be possible.

I was at NN in 2006. But wasn't aware of Glenn Greenwald and didn't know who he is. Can't remember him speaking there.

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Hillary is the ultimate establishment elite insider.

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Democrats, we tried to warn you. How is that guilt and shame working out?

Deja's picture

It's like the scene in Monsters, Inc. when they sound the sirens and announce, "2319! 2319!"

People are acting as if the EU has ALWAYS existed. It hasn't. And that the world will now end. It won't - at least not because of freaking Brexit.

I don't get it.

[video:https://youtu.be/cUFJ1yVhJ6g]

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I saw some talking head on ABC News last evening say that this is the first time "in recent memory" that a country has left the EU. Ya think?

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thinks Brexit is a good idea is beyond me. Few in the UK left think it was.

It was driven by racist and xenophobic instincts through and through.

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But I'm done with believing the idea that all non-liberals are racist

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to the neoliberals who have done so much damage to wage earners. What comes next is not likely to be worse than the past decades.

I hope Corbyn survives and is stronger than ever, strong enough to purge the Blairites.

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"The justness of individual land right is not justifiable to those to whom the land by right of first claim collectively belonged"

They can just be angry at neoliberals and kicking the dog because they missed the mark. I'm also done calling centrist neoliberals like the DLC PR team at TOP liberals.

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"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon

thanatokephaloides's picture

I'm also done calling centrist neoliberals like the DLC PR team at TOP liberals.

Especially when one considers the fact that they, like their beloved $hillary, are now somewhat to the right of The Donald in all substantive policy proposals. Trump's racist pronunziamentos are only red meat sops to keep the GOPper Cerberuses lined up behind him.

There are only two liberal Presidential candidates in the 2016 race. Bernie and Jill. Only they should get the slightest consideration from anyone here.

Diablo

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"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar

"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides

MonetaryLeviathon's picture

I see a mountain of articles out there from so-called 'left' or 'progressive' or 'democratic' writers calling everyone who favors exiting globalist monetary schemes racists and xenophobic radicals. Screw that B.S., it is about the people controlling their own nation's destiny, rules, regulations and culture without interference, misdirection and/or subversion by unelected bureaucrats in the ECB who want to dictate those very things. Those very entities have been slowly privatizing the EHS (health services) in the UK for some time... all in private corporate interests... never in the people's interests .. just like the so-called affordable care act and the medicare part D corporate giveaways by the last two corrupt tenants in the WH.

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LeChienHarry's picture

privatization of previously well run government agencies. The example given during the evening: the French weather service, which is crap. They told us when the people owned it, the information was well done, helpful. Now, it is worthless. They get that privatizing is bad.

Sarkozy wants a comeback. These folks are horrified at the idea. Celebrity politicians. Berlusconi was another one, more like Trump, except they actually put him in.

Not good for Italy or the EU.

The idea that corporations like Monsanto, Sygenta, Pharma and other multi-nationals could work with a single entity, EU, then have the rules set for behaviours such as labour and clean air and water. The multi-nationals love the idea of negotiating with a single entity instead of 28 or so.

The nations (states) are catching on to trade agreements and are disenchanted to vehemently opposed to these programs. Small and local loses. Individuals lose. The folks, the etat, (not state, but the people as a whole) get it. And they don't want it.

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You may choose to look the other way, but you can never say again you did not know. ~ William Wiberforce

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dance you monster's picture

I think a lot of leftists recognize that it is not just racism and xenophobia fueling this but also dissatisfaction that the benefits of EU membership funneled so heavily toward those at the top of the financial pyramid, leaving the working class with an eroding standard of living. Leftists don't like to see workers victimized by the elites in the City of London, and when those workers united to say "No more," a lot of leftists felt "No more" was a legitimate and even long-needed rallying cry.

When the elites screw over so many, it's no wonder that the screwed-over find themselves with unusual company as they push back.

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Alligator Ed's picture

The Powers that Be (PTB) on both sides of the pond, operate very similarly: fear, fear, fear--here, take the crumbs we offer you and STFU. Like TPP in the U.S., Brexit was attacked by Left and Right, although for different reasons. The UK version of Trumpism is racist and xenophobic--but they also see a danger to national sovereignty (which need not be either racist or xenophobic). The Left's objection to EU is economic primarily with loss of jobs, loss of middle class, and subjugation of popular will to the elites. In fact, the coincidences of Brexit and Pres2016 are mind-boggling. Expect more--elsewhere. We may be seeing a "1984" stood on its head--the people reclaiming power from the elites.

When I hear the elites scream, I know we are on to something good!

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LeChienHarry's picture

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You may choose to look the other way, but you can never say again you did not know. ~ William Wiberforce

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Racism was a factor. But the conditions were created by neo-liberal economics and the complete abandonment of working people by traditional allies.

If conservatives, Blairite liberals and the Lib Dems had put a higher priority on supporting working people, rather than bailing out the rich and imposing austerity on everyone else -- the referendum never would have been successful. This vote never would have been successful prior to 2008. People in the UK aren't more racist now than they were then.

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Wink's picture

Left support it simply for the reason that it is a Big F.U. to the Elite, the Oligarchy, the 1%, to the "Globalists" who, like Team HRC, expect the riff raff to just bow down and kiss their ring.

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the little things you can do are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-2.1) All about building progressive media.

reason to be for something with significant implications.

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Wink's picture

Sorry, but I'm not buying the racist horse$h!t. And, what were the other objections? Oh, right. None. This Was and !s a YUUGE victory for those sick of rule by the Oligarchy Elite, a YUUGE victory for Berniecrats on the other side of the pond.

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the little things you can do are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-2.1) All about building progressive media.

Maybe it is because we don't confuse the guardian blairite neoliberals with the UK left. Maybe it is because we paid attention to what the EU did to the Greeks, the Spainiard, the Italians and the Irish.

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The 'leave' campaign was clearly backed, at least in part, by xenophobes. OTOH the 'remain' campaign was clearly backed, at least in part, by big money interests. Attitudes of leftists in the UK seem to be all over the place. Political leaders on both wings are catching hell.

Leaving will hurt a lot of people (at least in the short term) and by far most of those will not be wealthy. OTOH the EU has been a real shitball in it's treatment of non-elites.

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tapu dali's picture

that the British "tabloid" newspapers inspire.

See

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/22/opinion/who-is-to-blame-for-brexits-ap...

Seems about right to me.

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There are known knowns; there are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns – the ones we don't know we don't know.

Period.
They keep mislabeling Trump's xenophobia as racism.

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It is my understanding that the neoliberal elites were the primary voices accusing Brits of xenophobia. This was one neoliberal argument against Brexit, but it was more assumed or manufactured than based in hard data. It also looks a lot to me like the things one trots out to support one's denial.

They really still don't get it,do they? The elites in Britain, in the EU, in the US, in the DNC - none of them get it.

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I have MANY British friends, and many of them are horrified that Brexit is being used to unleash all sorts of racist and xenophobic crap in their country. They did not vote "out" because they are racists. They voted out because they are losing money like a sieve and their programs are falling apart. The NHS is damn near broke, and in the last decade, more and more offices have been closed, and fewer services available to the citizenry. Britain was spending $34 million a DAY to the EU and the IMF. The "privilege" of being part of the EU which was designed originally to only be on a par with the US for trade. In other words, the people got tired of being raped by the EU and the IMF for the "privilege" of losing their services.

The EU was poorly designed and only designed to do one thing to match the scale of the US: bilk the middle class and the poor. Britons finally got tired of it.

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Did you even bother to read the diary?

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Democrats, we tried to warn you. How is that guilt and shame working out?

movie buff's picture

was implementing neoliberal policies while at the same time failing to build nearly enough prisons. Prisons could have kept some of those pesky Leave voters off the streets and out of the voting booths. I guess they're amateurs over there, but it's obvious to me that if you're an elite, you can't take people's jobs away while leaving their franchise intact. I mean, duh.

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"The smart way to keep people passive and obedient is to strictly limit the spectrum of acceptable opinion, but allow very lively debate within that spectrum." --Noam Chomsky

Wink's picture

Do not wonder why "They" continue to build Privatized Prisons here in the grand U.S.A.

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the little things you can do are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-2.1) All about building progressive media.

tapu dali's picture

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There are known knowns; there are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns – the ones we don't know we don't know.

Lookout's picture

have an interesting take. Thanks to mimi for the article.

http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/2008_all_over_again_20160624

Hudson sees the crisis in Europe as, in part, spawned by the U.S. intervention in the Middle East and the Ukraine.
“If there is anyone who is responsible for the Brexit, it is Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama,” he said. “They destroyed Libya. They turned over Libyan weapons to [Islamic State], al-Qaida and [Nusra Front]. It was their war in Syria, where many of these weapons ended up, which created the massive exodus of refugees into Europe. This exodus exacerbated nationalism and anti-immigrant sentiment. Clinton and Obama are also responsible for a huge exodus of Ukrainians. This is all a response to American war policy in the Middle East and the Ukraine. In central Europe, with the expansion of NATO, Washington is meanwhile demanding that governments spend billions on weapons rather than on recovering the economy.”
The eurozone prohibits central banks from financing government budget deficits. Countries in the eurozone have, in effect, surrendered economic and political sovereignty. They cannot create money to cope with their budget deficits or pump money into the economy. This, Hudson said, has “turned the eurozone into a dead zone since 2008.”
Britain’s withdrawal from the eurozone will damage not only the international banking system, but hamper Washington’s aggressive policies toward Russia and the Ukraine. Britain has served within the EU as an American proxy. German Social Democratic Party leaders, who have accused NATO of warmongering, have already called for the lifting of the sanctions against Russia. And there is a growing reluctance to continue supporting endless war in the Middle East.
“By breaking with the European bankers, you also ultimately break with the American domination of Europe through NATO,” Hudson said.

Published on Jun 24, 2016
Michael Hudson argues that military interventions in the Middle East created refugee streams to Europe that were in turn used by the anti-immigrant right to stir up xenophobia 12 min

[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-MraD1Ys3Q]

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“Until justice rolls down like water and righteousness like a mighty stream.”

debtor countries by buying up sovereign debt and keeping interest rates lower than they would be otherwise. Part of the problem is that they started this program in 2015, not 2008.

The issue also isn't that national governments can't finance debt. If Germany wanted to run up its national debt, it would have no problem finding private investors willing to buy it up.

The problem is that the Germans support rules that limit the amount of deficit spending that nations can create. Germany should be doing a lot more deficit spending in order to support the economies of debtor nations who have no choice but to engage in contractionary fiscal policy.

The refugee crisis by itself would be a problem. But the economic crisis and the inept response by political leaders that has really destabilized the situation.

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Not Henry Kissinger's picture

Corbyn faces a vote of no confidence among his parliamentary peers this week, but has vowed to stand firm against efforts to oust him.

Cameron has already scored an own goal underestimating the anti-establishment feeling of the Tories and allowing the Brexit vote in the first place.

Now in the aftermath, the Blairites are set to make the same mistake on the Labour side.

31% of Labour voters voted for Brexit without Corbyn. Not hard to see him finding another 20% from his own loyalists and/or additional Blair haters.

Besides, Brexit was a complicated vote for Labour voters with all the EU environmental and social protections baked in. A straight up leadership vote is better ground for Corbyn, where he has already won and can run again against the hated New Labour policies of the London elites.

Predicting 2 - nil against the Banksters within a week if they follow through on the no confidence vote.

Their threats are hollow and their power ebbing. All they have left is their hubris, which will be their undoing.

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The current working assumption appears to be that our Shroedinger's Cat system is still alive. But what if we all suspect it's not, and the real problem is we just can't bring ourselves to open the box?

mimi's picture

Corbyn has fired some, and others of his shadow cabinet have resigned. What is this coup all about? Who tries to sack or overthrow whom, isn't clear to me.

UK Labour Party leader under pressure from Shadow Cabinet colleagues I heard that at dw and france24, but I am too lazy to read and search for it once again.

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Not Henry Kissinger's picture

We'll see what happens Tuesday, but Corbyn must have known walkout was coming when he fired Benn. This way they purge themselves from the leadership without Jeremy having to look like the bad guy repeatedly swinging the axe.

Again though, I think the resigners overestimate their popularity within the party. Brexit won despite all the establishment support lined up against it, and even with Scotland and Ulster voting solidly against it for different reasons.

In England proper, the tide right now is definitely against the status quo, so a Labour counter revolution at this time is especially ill-timed.

On the other hand, it may simply be that the resigners have no choice but to try to oust Corbyn now. They see their influence ebbing and figure they might as well try a quick strike to help the banksters reestablish control of at least one of the two major parties while they still have a chance. The longer they wait, the tougher it gets.

(Otherwise the PTB are stuck with the Lib Dem wankers, whose obsequious toadying to the Tory elites over the past few years has rendered them electoral eunuchs.)

Tuesday should be interesting.

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The current working assumption appears to be that our Shroedinger's Cat system is still alive. But what if we all suspect it's not, and the real problem is we just can't bring ourselves to open the box?

a report comes out that has a fair chance of naming Tony Blair and his Blairites as war criminals. Not a coincidence Benn started this.

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Not Henry Kissinger's picture

Where's Malcom Tucker when you need him to explain of all this to us?

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The current working assumption appears to be that our Shroedinger's Cat system is still alive. But what if we all suspect it's not, and the real problem is we just can't bring ourselves to open the box?

Arrow's picture

Link: https://theintercept.com/2016/06/25/brexit-is-only-the-latest-proof-of-t...

Not surprising.

Neo-liberal chickens coming home to roost.

People read the papers and know more than Elites think. They saw how they screwed Greece. They see 'austerity' killing the 'have-not's' to prop up the existing order.

Something has to give. That something is Neo-liberalism.

I don't see countries like Chad or Mali being courted to join the economic zone.

In the current world order if you don't have anything useful to them...you're SOL.

In a race to the bottom...British,Italian,Spanish,Eastern European workers are SOL too.

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I want a Pony!

riverlover's picture

GB never adopted the Euro, although all travelers had them. BoS issued their own currency par with the Pound. With prettier imprints on the paper. GB nearly lost over the N Ireland/Ireland troubles. Scotland is ready to part. With England.

I have old travel times there, and there are as many grudges per time length as in the ME. So the British Empire falls down to England and a few Channel Islands. Canada regards them as quaint, India not so much.

I am not an historiain, my father was; that made me eschew History to go into fact-based science. My opinions are my own.

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Hey! my dear friends or soon-to-be's, JtC could use the donations to keep this site functioning for those of us who can still see the life preserver or flotsam in the water.

EyeRound's picture

writes Paul Mason but there is still an internal coup effort from the Blair-wing.

Also, Podemos falls short in Spanish elections. Following tweets on Mason's twitter feed, the exit polls tell a different story from the final "vote count." Where have we heard that? Rajoy 139.PSOE 86, Podemos 71 with 90% counted.

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Not Henry Kissinger's picture

a leftwing majority coalition, no?

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The current working assumption appears to be that our Shroedinger's Cat system is still alive. But what if we all suspect it's not, and the real problem is we just can't bring ourselves to open the box?

CaptainPoptart's picture

But according to some, PSOE who is losing voters to Podemos, regard them as the enemy.

Many analysts believe, however, that the 137-year-old Socialist Party would prefer to form a "grand coalition" with the People's Party of the current acting prime minister, Mariano Rajoy, or give passive support to a minority PP government, rather than get into bed with a group that threatens its existence.

http://www.telesurtv.net/english/news/Unidos-Podemos-Breaks-Up-Two-Party...

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I'd rather learn from one bird how to sing than teach ten thousand stars how not to dance. - e.e.cummings

Not Henry Kissinger's picture

they'll lose even more next time (including their senior coalition status if the lose 11).

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The current working assumption appears to be that our Shroedinger's Cat system is still alive. But what if we all suspect it's not, and the real problem is we just can't bring ourselves to open the box?

CaptainPoptart's picture

They are the typical bunch of neoliberals who have sold out their constituents for years. In 2011 they were responsible for the austerity policies that brought about, or at least worsened, the housing crisis that led to Los Indignados. That movement in turn fostered Podemos. The party needs to be cleansed of its elites and become a true party of the left, and only continued losses at the polls in favor of Podemos will do that.

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I'd rather learn from one bird how to sing than teach ten thousand stars how not to dance. - e.e.cummings

Not Henry Kissinger's picture

They'd rather play second banana in a rightwing government than actually run things in a leftwing one.

In that case, maybe it's better for Podemos to be on the outside looking in when the economic SHTF during this next cycle (which it will).

Watch the whole Grand Coalition Armada get taken in the economic storm, and look for a big win next time.

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The current working assumption appears to be that our Shroedinger's Cat system is still alive. But what if we all suspect it's not, and the real problem is we just can't bring ourselves to open the box?

EyeRound's picture

Euro "socialist" political parties, the German SPD, Hollande's Socialists. I believe that PSOE's chief differences with Podemos concern Catalan independence--PSOE won't hear of it (neither will Rajoy's PP) because it would mean Spain's loss of its most prosperous region, while Podemos has agreed to allow a referendum on the question.

When the German SPD ran their "grand coalition" government with Merkel's CDU it was the end of SPD's credibility as a left-ish party. Nowadays the old SPD position is more or less taken up by the Greens, but this is definitely not the party of Petra Kelley, it has moved much further to the "center." So has the Austrian Green Party.

The left has to keep re-constituting itself!

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tapu dali's picture

PP is short of 175, as is PSOE+Podemos.

There are 5-6 minor parties on the far right and far left that neither wants to include in a coalition.

Spain is in for another year of turmoil and uncertainty, with another election a good probability.

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There are known knowns; there are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns – the ones we don't know we don't know.

He's a distraction and a way for the conservatives and the political and media establishment to try to change the subject. It was Cameron who offered up the referendum in 2015 as part of the election. Corbyn didn't lose to Cameron in 2015 either. Unlike the conservatives Corbyn didn't actively campaign for Brexit either.

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tapu dali's picture

Remain campaign by his wishy-washy defense of europe.

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There are known knowns; there are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns – the ones we don't know we don't know.

Roy Blakeley's picture

They have been planning this for ages. The Parliamentary Labour Party is full of corporate types who are at odds with the rank and file Labour members. Corbyn and everything he represents is despised by Hillary Benn et al. Brexit is just a convenient excuse.

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boriscleto's picture

Isn't bizarre at all. The press is taking a neoliberal position and expecting Labour to do the same.

It will be the same shock the US press has when Trump's right wing populism beats Clinton's neoliberalism...

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" In the beginning, the universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry, and is generally considered to have been a bad move. -- Douglas Adams, The Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy "

Alligator Ed's picture

because HRC may be in jail (hope, hope!). The we would have a true progressive against a Fascist Regressive. But who counts the votes?

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Azazello's picture

especially that last sentence. Will you be cross-posting ?

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We wanted decent healthcare, a living wage and free college.
The Democrats gave us Biden and war instead.

tapu dali's picture

"3 pound members." Any random bloke walking into a polling booth to elect the leader of the Party with 3 quid to pay became an "instant" Member and could vote. I don't think they even had to be a UK citizen (but I could be wrong here).

The PLP (Parliamentary Labour Party, i.e. the Labour MPs) were very much against Corbyn as leader,, and it appears, rightly so.

At least 12 members of Corbyn's Shadow Cabinet (i.e. opposition critics) have resigned, and news reports indicate that many more are to follow.

Monday's Labour Shadow Cabinet meeting has been cancelled.

It only takes 50 Labour MPs to demand a vote of confidence in Corbyn, and they have the votes.

Corbyn is toast. Good.

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There are known knowns; there are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns – the ones we don't know we don't know.

Consistently.
It's the Blairites that never wanted him.

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tapu dali's picture

How would you like it if any random person could just walk into a Democratic Primary, plunk down a fiver, and get a ballot, no questions asked about residency, citizenship or whatever?

That's how Corbyn got elected Leader of the Party. I also remind you how Parliamentary systems work: The Leader of the Opposition is a Member of Parliament, and in this case he did not have the support of a Majority of his MPs.

Corbyn = Pelosi, more or less, and "Shadow Cabinet" members are analogous to "Ranking Members" of House or Senate Committees.

So it's like all Ranking Members resigned their Committee positions, demanding Pelosi's resignation.

Can you envisage that?

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There are known knowns; there are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns – the ones we don't know we don't know.

tapu dali's picture

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There are known knowns; there are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns – the ones we don't know we don't know.

Roy Blakeley's picture

of Corbyn are Blairite, corporate Labour. Think Hillary Clinton, Emmanuel, etc. If you like the DLC, you will love the Shadow Cabinet members that resigned.

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tapu dali's picture

and you should know that.

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There are known knowns; there are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns – the ones we don't know we don't know.

tapu dali's picture

as experts on things British read the British press: the Guardian and the BBC are a good start.

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There are known knowns; there are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns – the ones we don't know we don't know.

Pluto's Republic's picture

never read the New York Times or the Washington Post if they really want to kow what's going on in the minds of Americans.

Both are as filthy with Neoliberal corruption as the Guardian and the BBC are.

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____________________

The political system is what it is because the People are who they are. — Plato
tapu dali's picture

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There are known knowns; there are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns – the ones we don't know we don't know.

Pluto's Republic's picture

…as far as the national Press is concerned.

That was the wrong link for the Morning Star, although there are plenty of alternative press that can help modify the propaganda spew of the majors.

It's a full time job and a lot of effort to bat away the Anglo fear-games propaganda and political agendas. I read the global press, anyway, which is the only source of complete US news. Sentiment is that the UK will be just fine in or out of the EU, as far as trade and markets goes. They have the Pound, which simplifies things.

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____________________

The political system is what it is because the People are who they are. — Plato
tapu dali's picture

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There are known knowns; there are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns – the ones we don't know we don't know.

tapu dali's picture

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There are known knowns; there are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns – the ones we don't know we don't know.

people, wait for the next time the Masters Of Finance crash the economy, bail them out, & then start selling off the nation's assets to cover the bills.

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chuck utzman

TULSI 2020

people, wait for the next time the Masters Of Finance crash the economy, bail them out, & then start selling off the nation's assets to cover the bills.

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chuck utzman

TULSI 2020

Roy Blakeley's picture

The Guardian has turned increasingly neoliberal in recent years. (I have been a subscriber for the Guardian Weekley for decades.) The BBC has been very biased on Brexit.

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tapu dali's picture

and I still correspond regularly with many Britons.

They're all appalled at the thought of Brexit.

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There are known knowns; there are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns – the ones we don't know we don't know.

Alligator Ed's picture

Should we care? Or maybe not?

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[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eYqzcqDtL3k width:500 height:400]

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