Welcome to Saturday's Potluck - Aug 19, 2023

Submitted by studentofearth on Sat, 08/19/2023 - 5:44am

“Learn the rules like a pro, so you can break them like an artist.”
Pablo Picasso

Harvested my first crop of peaches today. About a year after starting to write at C99 started planting trees requiring a little warmer growing season than typical in Central Oregon. The summer temps have been moderate and only a handful of nights the temp stayed above 60 (F). The news has been loud about extreme heat, but it really depends upon where the thermometer is located.

Tuesday was hot. Weather channel predicted 101, it is August hot, dry weather is to be expected. A few chickens were panting even with the shade cloth. Stepping out onto the front porch was comfortable, thermometer read 84. Set a thermometer in the middle of the drive 120 degrees. Five minutes later set by the back porch in the sun only 100.

If I had a particular narrative to support there is a thermometer reading to support my position. The peaches are probably the result of a cold spring causing a delayed bloom followed by no frost. If it repeats the pattern for the next few years probably a shift in climate. Now I can not as easily explain away the significance of almonds maturing on the almond tree which has survived the past 4 winters with no special protection.

Meal planning this time of year does include simply wandering around to find ingredients ready to use. It does not matter if it is in one's own garden or a farmers market. This video may provide some fresh ideas.

Creative picking and cooking with one of the UK’s most exciting chefs, Chantelle Nicholson (35:15 min)

________

Central Asian Theater

Central Asia is the prime battlefield in the New Great Game The Cradle by Pepe Escobar Aug 18, 2023

The original Great Game pitted the British and Russian empires in the late 19th century, and in fact, never got away: it just metastasized into the US-UK entente versus the USSR, and, subsequently, the US-EU versus Russia.
...
The imperial modus operandi privileges – what else – threats and ultimatums. Only four months ago, US emissaries from the State Department, Treasury, and Office of Foreign Affairs Control (OFAC) toured the Heartland bearing a whole package of “gifts," as in blatant or thinly disguised threats. The key message: if you “help” or even trade with Russia in any way, you will be slapped with secondary sanctions.

Informal conversations with businesses in Uzbekistan's Samarkand and Bukhara and contacts in Kazakhstan reveal a pattern: Everyone seems to be aware that the Americans will go no holds barred to hold the Heartland/Central Asia at gunpoint.
...
The Chinese, for their part, invest in a collective approach, solidified, for instance, in high-profile meetings such as the China-Central Asia 5+1 Summit, held only 3 months ago.

Then there’s the extremely curious case of the Organization of Turkic States (OTS), formerly Turkic Council, which unites Turkiye, Azerbaijan, and three Central Asian “stans,” Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan, and Kyrgyzstan.

This OTS' overarching aim is to “promote comprehensive cooperation among Turkic-speaking states.”
...
Last year, Putin visited all five Central Asian “stans” for the first time in quite a while. Mirroring China, they held a 5+1 summit also for the first time. Russian diplomats and businessmen ply Heartland roads full-time. And let’s not forget that the presidents of all five Central Asian “stans” were themselves present in the Red Square parade in Moscow on Victory Day last May.
...
Valdai Club expert Rustam Khaydarov may have coined the most concise appraisal of West-Heartland relations:
“The collective West is alien to us both in terms of culture and worldview. There is not a single phenomenon or event, or element of modern culture, which could serve as the basis for a relationship and rapprochement between the US and European Union on the one hand and Central Asia on the other. Americans and Europeans have no idea about the culture and mentality or traditions of the peoples of Central Asia, so they could not and will not be able to interact with us. Central Asia does not view economic prosperity in conjunction with the liberal democracy of the West, which is essentially an alien concept to the countries of the region.”

Considering this scenario, and in the context of a New Great Game that is becoming increasingly incandescent by the day, it’s no wonder that some Heartland diplomatic circles are very much interested in a closer integration of Central Asia into BRICS+. That’s something bound to be discussed at the BRICS summit in South Africa next week.

________

Not sure how long the "round table" with Ray and Larry will continue. Ray does not simply go along with Larry's narrative.

Worst Crimes Committed by Federal Gov - Intel RoundTable w/Larry Johnson & Ray Mcgovern (27:26 min)

Ray McGovern
It is in the law. It's a really bad piece of law, Okay it says that "the Director of Central Intelligence shall perform such other function and duties as the President shall from time to time direct." That is that, gestapo like, but it is in the legislation. So if they even think the President wants to deal away with La Mumba or Castro or somebody else they go ahead and do it knowing that they will not be held accountable. They have this immunity which allows them to go ahead and do these things torture for example.
...
Larry Johnson
Yes, part of the problem for the CIA is what the mythology presented about the CIA through Hollywood has not been the actual reality. So for example lets take the issue of interrogations and torture the CIA was never trained to do that because a case officer they are trained to recruit people. It's like trying to pick up a date in the bar on Friday night you do not do that by torturing or attacking. And yet right after 9/11 all of a sudden they decided we must do this and the brought in some outsiders and the next thing you know the CIA is involved in with actual torture. Which has historically has proven to be ineffective for extracting reliable information. So it is really a function of the bureaucratic imperative of the CIA. There eagerness to please political Master downtown and to get you know the pat on the head like a dog eager to go for a walk they will do things without thinking through is this right, is this proper, is this effective.

Rebuttal watch Ray's facial expression and read Doug Valentine's book The Phoenix program.

The livestream videos this week by Judge Napolitano channel ongoing discussions regarding current Ukraine/Russia conflict. The interviews are generally posted on Monday through Thursday if would like to view them in a more timely manner. The link opens in the LIVE column, occasionally an interview only appears in VIDEOS section.

________

Douglas Valentine is the author of multiple ground breaking works on the CIA. If you only have time for one video watch this one.

Doug Valentine: The Phoenix Program, TDY (58:51 min)

Begins with how he came to write the book. Secrets from WWII effecting the relationship between himself and his Dad. Discusses the non-disclosure statements that service personnel were forced to sign. Then carrying those secrets back to their civilian life with no support other than dire consequences if told.

Moves on to philosophical discussion the people who become employed by intelligence services.

24:20 start discussion on criminal activities and organized crimes
begin with example China in mid-1920's of preCIA criminal patterns of US and opium trade, Office of Stategic Services morphing into Central Intelligance Agency
33:43 How individuals get sucked into the system.
43:10 similarities noticed after soi many interviews with individuals in CIA, special forces and military.

________

What is on your mind today?

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Open Thread

Saturday

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Comments

Submitted by QMS on Sat, 08/19/2023 - 8:36am

Good Morning

Wasn't it JFK that last wanted to disband the CIA? That did not turn out so well.
Any and all 'black budget' agencies beyond congressional oversight are
dangerous to 'we the people' IMO. Not that the special councils within the
courts, legislature and executive will ever share their secrets. Even token
gestures may at least give us a clearer image of the aims of the 'intelligence'
agencies activities?

Thanks you for your potluck and enjoy the peaches!

https://www.nhc.noaa.gov/refresh/graphics_ep4+shtml/115409.shtml?cone#co...

Submitted by Lookout on Sat, 08/19/2023 - 9:24am

Good morning...

Our last cool one for a week so I'm enjoying the 60F start to the day. Trade day was pleasant. I found a misting Ryobi 18V fan. I've been watching for one to show up, and finally scored today...just in time for the hot week ahead. It will be nice to have while out doing jobs around the homestead and for camping.

I didn't pick up on any animus btwn Ray and Larry, but what do I know?

We have too much fungi (brown rot) to grow peaches without spraying. Ironic here in peach country.

Hope all is well on the homestead, and thanks for the OT.

—

“Until justice rolls down like water and righteousness like a mighty stream.”

Submitted by snoopydawg on Sat, 08/19/2023 - 10:07am

There always seems to be a new game

Biden promised no more forever wars and yet just months after his crappy pullout from Afghanistan he has gotten us into another forever war….oh I don’t mean that we will be fighting in Ukraine forever. I mean that one of the purposes for the war will go on until we transfer our attention elsewhere. Like the pacific. The reason I’m talking about is the massive amounts of money spent on military equipment and weapons. The Afghanistan war was lost after OBL slipped away. That was the reason why we were told we went in right? But then Assange spilled the beans on why we staying there. Also because of oil and pipelines and that recent discovery of trillions in minerals.

Putin put his finger on this.

"What the West did was get entire nations hooked on drugs and purposefully exterminated entire ethnic groups for the sake of grabbing land and resources, hunting people like animals. This is contrary to human nature, truth, freedom and justice.” - Putinpic.twitter.com/YvU1YRtlQo

— Jackson Hinkle (@jacksonhinklle) August 18, 2023

And from the you can’t make this up department

This is just too good, the guy who beat up a transgender in Lviv yesterday made an EPIC apology

He says he is the grandson of a Waffen SS Galicia scout and has right-wing tendencies that got the best of him

You can’t make this up, Ukraine is a gem pic.twitter.com/Y1VZd4M4dk

— What the media hides. (@narrative_hole) August 17, 2023

The rest of the story

—

Which AIPAC/MIC/pharma/bank bought politician are you going to vote for? Don’t be surprised when nothing changes.

Submitted by snoopydawg on Sat, 08/19/2023 - 11:44am

@snoopydawg

Think Tank Experts Pushing Ukraine Conflict Share A Common Benefactor (Marsden)

[..] while the generals of the Iraq War era had all the subtlety of a sledgehammer in representing the interests of the military-industrial complex, the new salesmen of endless armed conflict in Ukraine have overwhelmingly adopted the more subtle model. A study published in 2020 found that the top 50 think tanks received over a billion dollars from the US government and its defense contractors and manufacturers, including some of the biggest beneficiaries of weapons production today ‘for Ukraine’. The top recipients of this funding include the Atlantic Council, German Marshall Fund of the United States, Brookings Institution, Heritage Foundation, Center for Strategic and International Studies, New America Foundation, RAND Corporation, Center for a New American Security, Council on Foreign Relations, and the Stimson Center.

Some of these black boxes are more ideologically-driven than others. The Heritage Foundation, for example, leans overwhelmingly neoconservative and interventionist. Others, like the Atlantic Council and German Marshall Fund, are effectively force multipliers for NATO talking points. But the RAND Corporation also houses systems analysts and scientists specializing in space and computing. The fact that not all of these entities – or even the people who work within some of them – can be tossed into the same basket and labeled mere parrots for the special interests of their organization’s benefactors helps to muddy the waters.

In an analysis published in June of media coverage related to US military involvement in Ukraine, the Quincy Institute for Responsible Statecraft found that, when a think tank is cited regarding the issue, 85% of the time it’s a think tank with “financial backing from the defense industry.” Taken at face value, this risks being interpreted by the general public as expert ‘consensus’ on the need for US taxpayers to continue flooding Ukraine with weapons, unaware that it’s really just a bunch of Pentagon-backed actors agreeing with each other about the need to pursue the most profitable course of action on behalf of their War Inc. sugar daddies. Just like when climate scientists, who have parlayed climate change into endless funding and a perpetual justification for their existence, aren’t going to kill their cash cow by arguing that the climate can’t be controlled by man and that throwing cash at the issue – or at them – is futile.

—

Which AIPAC/MIC/pharma/bank bought politician are you going to vote for? Don’t be surprised when nothing changes.

Submitted by snoopydawg on Sat, 08/19/2023 - 10:12am

How horrifying…

I can’t begin to imagine what that would be like!

I can't imagine living in a country like that... pic.twitter.com/oI4TMxHmzX

— Alan MacLeod (@AlanRMacLeod) August 18, 2023

—

Which AIPAC/MIC/pharma/bank bought politician are you going to vote for? Don’t be surprised when nothing changes.

Submitted by snoopydawg on Sat, 08/19/2023 - 10:47am

Who wants to go first?

Why so damn defensive, Joe? You think shouting at people is going to stop them from naming every gd thing that democrats have failed to do?

SEE IT: President @JoeBiden asks, "Name me a single objective we've ever set out to accomplish that we've failed on! Name me one"..WATCH pic.twitter.com/ldqjeEGd0Y

— Simon Ateba (@simonateba) August 16, 2023

Besides this list from Williamson

Raising the minimum wage, ramping down fossil fuel extraction, defeating the Taliban, providing universal healthcare, achieving criminal justice for Black and Brown Americans, providing Americans with clean water, ending poverty, providing a a world class education for every child, passing the ERA, electing a woman president…

Abortion Rights and the public option that both Obama and Biden promised to pass.

Who’s next?

But ouch!

An unlikely solution to the problems with Harris and Feinstein” [Los Angeles Times]. “Biden apparently selected Harris largely because of an expected comfort level based on her close working relationship with his late son, Beau, when they were both state attorneys general.” • Ah. Since the apple doesn’t fall far from the tree, perhaps Beau saw in Harris what Willie Brown saw in Harris.

—

Which AIPAC/MIC/pharma/bank bought politician are you going to vote for? Don’t be surprised when nothing changes.

Submitted by snoopydawg on Sat, 08/19/2023 - 11:31am

Russia is warning that the US is planning a new epidemic

Yesterday I posted information on what Russia has found about the bio labs in Ukraine.

Yeah I know it’s Alex Jones, but time will tell if he’s right.

BREAKING: Alex Jones says a TSA whistleblower has told him TSA employees were instructed on Tue that masks are coming back by October for travelers & full Covid restrictions/lockdowns by December due to a new “dangerous variant” out of Canada. pic.twitter.com/sw4b2XYuoh

— Melissa Tate (@TheRightMelissa) August 19, 2023

Weird how they already know how bad the new variant is going to be. The booster jabs are for the variant that is on its way out already and the next newest one has 32 mutations in it so I can’t see how the booster will offer any protection….against severe illness, but not protection.

—

Which AIPAC/MIC/pharma/bank bought politician are you going to vote for? Don’t be surprised when nothing changes.

Submitted by enhydra lutris on Sat, 08/19/2023 - 2:17pm

He could turn out to be right, but there is no reason to

@snoopydawg

suspect that he will. He is not driven by the same forces as people like Blementhal, Mate', Assange and the like. It is strictly a business proposition with him and I don't see where, truth, facts, credibility, and logic play any real role in his business model.

be well and have a good one

—

That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

Submitted by snoopydawg on Sat, 08/19/2023 - 3:08pm

Oh?

@enhydra lutris

Have you followed Jones closely to form this opinion that he will turn out to be wrong? Or that he has the same scruples as those you mentioned and it’s just business for him? Lots of people think that he has been right about a lot of things in the past that he said that turned out to be true. Even Russia thinks that America is going to release another virus. But like I said I will wait and see before I discount him.

Have a nice day.

—

Which AIPAC/MIC/pharma/bank bought politician are you going to vote for? Don’t be surprised when nothing changes.

Submitted by on the cusp on Sat, 08/19/2023 - 3:15pm

Jones' info

@snoopydawg pretty much comports with what I have been reading from multiple sources. It does stand to reason that TSA would be alerted early.

—

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981

Submitted by enhydra lutris on Sat, 08/19/2023 - 6:34pm

I didn't say I expect him to be wrong, only that I have no

@snoopydawg

reason to expect him to be right. Bertrand Russell once famously said

that it is undesirable to believe in a proposition when there is no ground whatsoever for supposing that it is true.

OK, that informs a lot of my opinions and thinking. So, if somebody tells me that god told them that the DOW will drop 50 points or that the mayor will commit suicide tomorrow, or that they feel it in their bones, or that they can just tell, or that a sekret confidential informant tipped them off I don't assume it won't happen, but I don't assume it will. I have no reason to believe that person. I recall that there were occasions, plural, in which he had no discernable basis for an assertion which, in fact, turned out to be wrong. The whole crises actors assertion was one such, he made it, repeated it, several times and doubled down. It seems to me to be in keeping with his business model to be willing to do such things, ergo i cannot assume, in any instance, that he isn't.

be well and have a good one

—

That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

Submitted by on the cusp on Sat, 08/19/2023 - 6:44pm

It won't take long to see

@enhydra lutris if he is right or wrong on this call.

—

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981

Submitted by snoopydawg on Sat, 08/19/2023 - 12:06pm

Wait for the ending

Wait for the ending...

-The President of the United States used his Son to negotiate business deals
-in industries he knew nothing about
-trading exclusively on political favors
-he ordered and bragged about (on video) getting a prosecutor fired
-the very prosecutor who his…

— Liberty Lockdown w/ Clint Russell (@LibertyLockPod) August 18, 2023

Wait for the ending…
-The President of the United States used his Son to negotiate business deals
-in industries he knew nothing about
-trading exclusively on political favors
-he ordered and bragged about (on video) getting a prosecutor fired
-the very prosecutor who his Son’s employer wanted fired
-these requests were documented in emails to his Son
-emails the FBI possessed
-from a laptop they possessed
-which the FBI covered up
-he used a pseudonym of Robert L. Peters to schedule meetings and calls with his Son’s business associates
-he also declared repeatedly that he knew nothing of his Son’s business dealings
-an FBI whistle-blower then swore that his Son’s employer (Zlochevsky of Burisma) told him that he was extorted for a bribe to get this very prosecutor fired
-an IRS whistle-blower then swore that the investigations into his Son were intentionally botched
-a plea deal was then offered to his Son that would’ve granted blanket immunity for all of this

He faces no impeachment
He faces no criminal charges
His predecessor faces 717 yrs in prison
For questioning the legitimacy of the elections which installed the man who was ushered into office, with the assistance of the
-IRS
-FBI
-corporate news and social media
who worked in tandem to hide all of this from the America voters literally days before they were set to vote. During elections that were procedurally changed in completely novel ways .Based on a pandemic which originated in a Chinese lab while doing gain of function research using US tax payer dollars. And the guy in charge of mitigating the pandemic was the one who greenlit that funding. Despite that research being illegal. All of which he lied to congress about. He also faces no investigations. Or criminal charges.

You aren’t crazy. You’re being lied to. The people who are dropping RICO charges on Trump are not upholding the law. They are the cleanup crew. Sent to bury Trump, his attorneys and ultimately any dissident political movement from this point forward. If they prevail in doing so then anyone that attempts to uncover the truth will face a similar fate. These are the stakes. This is what you’re up against. I’m not a Trump supporter I’m just a guy that cares about justice and the American people. Oh and I hate liars and corruption. Do not stop fighting for what’s right. The stakes couldn’t be higher..

Biden has used lots of pseudonyms in his emails and other accounts and that is what this is referring to.

Minor side note: Now we know the origin of "Pedo Pete" (Robert L Peters) in Hunter's phone.

— Fake Forest Ranger (@WayneWeil) August 18, 2023

Pedo Pete!

Hello….anyone else got something to say today?

—

Which AIPAC/MIC/pharma/bank bought politician are you going to vote for? Don’t be surprised when nothing changes.

Submitted by snoopydawg on Sat, 08/19/2023 - 12:25pm

On this note….

@snoopydawg

Why hasn’t there been any charges against Anthony Blinken for contacting someone in the FBI/CIA and telling them to write the letter stating that the information on Hunter’s laptop was Russian disinformation just before the election? That was blatant election interference. I can guess why no one (David Weiss) hasn’t been questioned about why he sat on the investigation into what was found on it for years after they took possession of it. Bill Barr who was Trump’s AG also did nothing with the laptop evidence. Kinda tells you why he was stuck in Trump’s administration huh? He was put there to protect against anything that the PTB didn’t want him to do…IMHO.

And remember that even though Durham found lots of evidence of Russia gate being totally made up he didn’t charge anyone nor even question the people who were responsible for making it up. His excuse? They would just say that he couldn’t recall a million times. But others have pointed out that if they said that Durham had the evidence that showed what they did. Both the Mueller and Durham investigations were used to sweep everything under the rug. Just like Comey's investigation into Hillary’s private email server was too. And like his investigation into the Clinton Foundation that found no evidence of wrongdoing.

And sure why the hell not?

Georgia Indicts Millions Of Voters For Conspiring To Elect Trump

ATLANTA, GA — In yet another stunning move, Fulton County District Attorney Fani Willis has announced the indictment of every Trump voter on charges of conspiracy to elect an election denier.

"Those who engaged in criminal conspiracy to vote for that yucky fart-face Donald Trump will be brought to justice," Willis said as she announced the hundreds of thousands of indictments. "These MAGA voters committed the heinous act of disagreeing with the ruling elites, which threatens the bedrock of democracy itself. In order to keep Donald Trump from regaining power, we must deal with his legion of domestic terrorist voters. No one is above the laws that we made up for this indictment."

When asked how they managed to track down every Trump voter in the state, officials said it only required them to hack into the electronic voting machines to access voter data and create a list of who everyone in the state voted for. "Being able to hack into these machines and manipulate data is an important part of keeping our elections free and fair," Willis explained.

At publishing time, the Biden Administration had reportedly taken notice of the indictments in Georgia and initiated plans to roll out similar indictments on a nationwide scale.

. Wait for the ending... -The President of the United States used his Son to negotiate business deals -in industries he knew nothing about -trading exclusively on political favors -he ordered and bragged about (on video) getting a prosecutor fired -the very prosecutor who his… — Liberty Lockdown w/ Clint Russell (@LibertyLockPod) August 18, 2023 Wait for the ending… -The President of the United States used his Son to negotiate business deals -in industries he knew nothing about -trading exclusively on political favors -he ordered and bragged about (on video) getting a prosecutor fired -the very prosecutor who his Son’s employer wanted fired -these requests were documented in emails to his Son -emails the FBI possessed -from a laptop they possessed -which the FBI covered up -he used a pseudonym of Robert L. Peters to schedule meetings and calls with his Son’s business associates -he also declared repeatedly that he knew nothing of his Son’s business dealings -an FBI whistle-blower then swore that his Son’s employer (Zlochevsky of Burisma) told him that he was extorted for a bribe to get this very prosecutor fired -an IRS whistle-blower then swore that the investigations into his Son were intentionally botched -a plea deal was then offered to his Son that would’ve granted blanket immunity for all of this He faces no impeachment He faces no criminal charges His predecessor faces 717 yrs in prison For questioning the legitimacy of the elections which installed the man who was ushered into office, with the assistance of the -IRS -FBI -corporate news and social media who worked in tandem to hide all of this from the America voters literally days before they were set to vote. During elections that were procedurally changed in completely novel ways .Based on a pandemic which originated in a Chinese lab while doing gain of function research using US tax payer dollars. And the guy in charge of mitigating the pandemic was the one who greenlit that funding. Despite that research being illegal. All of which he lied to congress about. He also faces no investigations. Or criminal charges. You aren’t crazy. You’re being lied to. The people who are dropping RICO charges on Trump are not upholding the law. They are the cleanup crew. Sent to bury Trump, his attorneys and ultimately any dissident political movement from this point forward. If they prevail in doing so then anyone that attempts to uncover the truth will face a similar fate. These are the stakes. This is what you’re up against. I’m not a Trump supporter I’m just a guy that cares about justice and the American people. Oh and I hate liars and corruption. Do not stop fighting for what’s right. The stakes couldn’t be higher.. Biden has used lots of pseudonyms in his emails and other accounts and that is what this is referring to. Minor side note: Now we know the origin of "Pedo Pete" (Robert L Peters) in Hunter's phone. — Fake Forest Ranger (@WayneWeil) August 18, 2023 Pedo Pete! Hello….anyone else got something to say today?

—

Which AIPAC/MIC/pharma/bank bought politician are you going to vote for? Don’t be surprised when nothing changes.

Submitted by Pluto's Republic on Sat, 08/19/2023 - 7:56pm

While Joe was in his basement running for President in 2020

@snoopydawg

...I was researching what was happening in Ukraine. I have stacks of newspaper articles that Ukraine Parliament Members and prosecutors file pertaining to crimes committed by the Bidens in Ukraine. They even wanted to get Biden extradited to Kyiv to stand title. At this point, Ukraine was trying to prove to Trump (and the IMF) that they were no longer corrupt. To them, going after Biden made sense to them. Everything the Ukrainians do is screwy and ill-timed.

Meanwhile, Giuliani was in Ukraine stirring the 2015 election-rigging pot looking for evidence. And Joe's handlers were in Kyiv trying to shut things down.

For example:

15:58 22.06.2020
Starting fee for closing case against Burisma, Biden family was $50 million

Starting fee for closing case against Burisma, Biden family was $50 million – Kulyk

The initial bribe to close the case against Burisma was $50 million, not $6 million, former senior prosecutor of the Ukraine's Prosecutor General's Office (PGO) Kostiantyn Kulyk said on Monday at a press conference at Interfax Ukraine.

Kulyk said Burisma officials were recently detained while transferring a $6 million bribe to an agent of the National Anti-Corruption Bureau of Ukraine to close the Burisma case.

"The initial amount of the bribe was not $6 million. The size of the bribe was $50 million," he said, showing the relevant documents.

Kulyk said Burisma lawyer Andriy Kich was detained during the bribe attempt.

"Burisma representatives in 2019 delegated this task to Kich, according to the PGO. I have in my hands a report from the prosecutor from my group that investigated the Burisma case. As follows from the report, Burisma and the Deputy Prosecutor General Yenin tried to influence the closure of the case," Kulyk said.

Member of Parliament Andriy Derkach said of Yenin: "Poroshenko arranged for Yenin to become Ukraine's Deputy Minister of Foreign Affairs under (President Volodymyr) Zelensky to control topics sensitive to Poroshenko, (former U.S. Vice President Joe) Biden and American (Deputy Assistant Secretary of State for European and Eurasian Affairs since September 4, 2018) George Kent."

"Yenin continues to this day to communicate with George Kent, reporting weekly over the telephone about the situation," Derkach said.

In August 2019, Kulyk said, he received information that Zlochevsky allocated $ 50 million to close criminal cases related to the activities of Burisma. The main requirements are to close criminal cases involving Burisma."

"I prepared a corresponding report and reported to the prosecutor general about the need to document an attempt to give a bribe. Here is this report," Kulyk said, showing a copy of the document.

The key question, according to Kulyk, is how such a large amount of funds could be transferred.

"You can imagine the volume of notes in the amount of $50 million. It is clear that such a bribe was impossible to give in cash. Therefore, we turned to Ukraine's SBU State Security Service for help in creating a legendary enterprise, which should have been credited. But PGO leadership changed. (Ruslan) Riaboshapka replaced (Yuriy) Lutsenko (as Prosecutor General). Talk about a $50-million bribe stopped after that, and Riaboshapka said that there was no case involving Burisma," Kulyk said.

"One of the episodes of official suspicion of Zlochevsky, case No. 1590, which supposedly was supposed to be closed for $6 million, includes facts of Zlochevsky's complicity in money laundering using Burisma, as well as Rosemont Seneca Boa of Devon Archer from the Biden family's orbit. It was $50 million to close not only Zlochevsky's case, but also against a company close to former U.S. Vice President Joe Biden When Burisma representatives were detained giving a $6 million bribe, Rosemont Seneca Boa, and, accordingly, payments to Biden in the case already did not appear. Sytnyk personally confirmed this at his recent press conference," Kulyk said.

Derkach claimed "the Bidens were suspicious, but disappeared along the way, together with another $44 million dollars, which was the main part of the bribe."

"Everyone made good money. Even stranger is the absence of Biden's name in the case in which he definitely appears, according to NABU Director (Artem) Sytnyk, who does not want to interfere in international political processes. The cynicism of the proposal is astounding. It was namely Sytnyk who interfered in the 2016 U.S. presidential election using fakes from the so-called 'black ledger' incriminating Trump's campaign manager Paul Manafort," Derkach said.

As reported, on June 12, a former official, with the assistance of a State Fiscal Service (SFS) official attempted to transfer $6 million of undue profit to Specialized Anti-Corruption Prosecutor's Office Head Nazar Kholodnytsky and top NABU officials. Mykola Illiashenko, First Deputy Head of Kyiv's Tax Service and Burisma's lawyer Andriy Kich were caught red-handed and arrested.

A few months earlier, in November 2019, the article below this appeared in the same newspaper. It's a masterpiece in self-incrimination and pointing fingers. Some of this would ultimately become the foundation for setting up Trump's impeachment. It's crazy how involved Ukraine was in US politics. It is the corruption and money laundering of state-owned money that brought the two countries into ongoing collusion. This, of course, continues to the present day:
.

Biden, partners receive $16.5 mln in payments stolen from Ukraine – MP Derkach

KYIV. Nov 20 (Interfax-Ukraine) – Some $16.5 million received by Hunter Biden, the son of former U.S. Vice President Joe Biden, as payment from Burisma was stolen from Ukrainian citizens, member of parliament Andriy Derkach has said.

Derkach said at a press conference at the Kyiv-based Interfax-Ukraine news agency that on November 14 the Prosecutor General's Office (PGO) announced a new suspicion to the owner of Burisma, former Ecology Minister Mykola Zlochevsky.

"The PGO document once again confirms the data I had previously published on Burisma and international corruption. According to Zlochevsky's suspicion notice, Biden and partners received their $16.5 million for their services to Burisma. Biden received funds not due to the successful activity of Burisma or for brilliant business decisions or recommendations. This is the money of Ukrainian citizens. The funds were obtained by criminal means. That's what they say in the PGO," Derkach said.

Derkach said the new suspicion notice to Zlochevsky was received by him from investigative journalists.

"According to the investigation, Zlochevsky was directly involved in the withdrawal of funds by the Yanukovych "family" (the Yanukovych criminal organization, according to the notice). They laundered the funds of Yanukovych through three companies in Latvia," Derkach said.

As reported, on October 9 Derkach made public official correspondence between the National Anti-corruption Bureau of Ukraine (NABU) and the U.S. Embassy, according to which First Deputy NABU Director Gizo Uglava through his assistant Polina Chizh provided the U.S. Embassy with information that affected the course of events in Ukraine and the United States.

According to him, Chizh received an order from U.S. Embassy employee Hanna Yemelyanova to provide information on the case of Ex-Ecology Minister and Burisma Group owner Mykola Zlochevsky.

Zlochevsky revealed the amount of money that was transferred to the representatives of Burisma Group, including Hunter Biden. According to the documents, about $16.5 million was transferred in favor of Hunter Biden, Aleksander Kwasniewski, Alan Apter, and Devon Archer.

According to Derkach, Ex-Prosecutor General Viktor Shokin repeatedly contacted NABU Director Artem Sytnyk in the framework of criminal proceedings involving Burisma, but constantly received formal replies. The activities of Shokin, according to Derkach, irritated Joe Biden during his fifth visit to Kyiv in two years on December 7-8, 2015. The visit was devoted to the issue of removing Shokin as Prosecutor General and the affairs of Zlochevsky and Burisma.

"The instrument issued for pressure was the $1 billion credit guarantee that the United States should have provided to Ukraine: Biden himself acknowledged the pressure in his speech to the U.S. Foreign Relations Council in January 2018," Derkach said.

On November 11, Derkach said on his video blog that Head of the Specialized Anti-corruption Prosecutor's Office (SAPO) Nazar Kholodnytsky launched an investigation into his allegations that the NABU had provided information to the U.S. Embassy in Ukraine. He also noted that from May 2014 until October 2015, Burisma transferred $4.817 million to Rosemont, and the latter transferred $871,000 to Hunter Biden.

As you can see, there's plenty of evidence to bring charges in the US, if the DOJ were not so mired in corruption itself. Members of the Senate and House engage in this type of influence peddlng on a regular basis with their corporate Donors. The People have no political mechanism to engage in democratic action. The US population is trapped in a political delusion. An effort bring the Biden's or anyone else in government to some sort of justice seems like a pathetic and fruitless gesture. Too little, too late.

. Wait for the ending... -The President of the United States used his Son to negotiate business deals -in industries he knew nothing about -trading exclusively on political favors -he ordered and bragged about (on video) getting a prosecutor fired -the very prosecutor who his… — Liberty Lockdown w/ Clint Russell (@LibertyLockPod) August 18, 2023 Wait for the ending… -The President of the United States used his Son to negotiate business deals -in industries he knew nothing about -trading exclusively on political favors -he ordered and bragged about (on video) getting a prosecutor fired -the very prosecutor who his Son’s employer wanted fired -these requests were documented in emails to his Son -emails the FBI possessed -from a laptop they possessed -which the FBI covered up -he used a pseudonym of Robert L. Peters to schedule meetings and calls with his Son’s business associates -he also declared repeatedly that he knew nothing of his Son’s business dealings -an FBI whistle-blower then swore that his Son’s employer (Zlochevsky of Burisma) told him that he was extorted for a bribe to get this very prosecutor fired -an IRS whistle-blower then swore that the investigations into his Son were intentionally botched -a plea deal was then offered to his Son that would’ve granted blanket immunity for all of this He faces no impeachment He faces no criminal charges His predecessor faces 717 yrs in prison For questioning the legitimacy of the elections which installed the man who was ushered into office, with the assistance of the -IRS -FBI -corporate news and social media who worked in tandem to hide all of this from the America voters literally days before they were set to vote. During elections that were procedurally changed in completely novel ways .Based on a pandemic which originated in a Chinese lab while doing gain of function research using US tax payer dollars. And the guy in charge of mitigating the pandemic was the one who greenlit that funding. Despite that research being illegal. All of which he lied to congress about. He also faces no investigations. Or criminal charges. You aren’t crazy. You’re being lied to. The people who are dropping RICO charges on Trump are not upholding the law. They are the cleanup crew. Sent to bury Trump, his attorneys and ultimately any dissident political movement from this point forward. If they prevail in doing so then anyone that attempts to uncover the truth will face a similar fate. These are the stakes. This is what you’re up against. I’m not a Trump supporter I’m just a guy that cares about justice and the American people. Oh and I hate liars and corruption. Do not stop fighting for what’s right. The stakes couldn’t be higher.. Biden has used lots of pseudonyms in his emails and other accounts and that is what this is referring to. Minor side note: Now we know the origin of "Pedo Pete" (Robert L Peters) in Hunter's phone. — Fake Forest Ranger (@WayneWeil) August 18, 2023 Pedo Pete! Hello….anyone else got something to say today?

—

____________________

The political system is what it is because the People are who they are. — Plato

Submitted by QMS on Sat, 08/19/2023 - 7:44pm

Wow, talk about corruption

@Pluto's Republic

It is no wonder Biden keeps sending billions to cover his tracks.
And how many have died in the process? F*ck US big time.
Guess that is what war is for after all.

#7

...I was researching what was happening in Ukraine. I have stacks of newspaper articles that Ukraine Parliament Members and prosecutors file pertaining to crimes committed by the Bidens in Ukraine. They even wanted to get Biden extradited to Kyiv to stand title. At this point, Ukraine was trying to prove to Trump (and the IMF) that they were no longer corrupt. To them, going after Biden made sense to them. Everything the Ukrainians do is screwy and ill-timed.

Meanwhile, Giuliani was in Ukraine stirring the 2015 election-rigging pot looking for evidence. And Joe's handlers were in Kyiv trying to shut things down.

For example:

15:58 22.06.2020
Starting fee for closing case against Burisma, Biden family was $50 million

Starting fee for closing case against Burisma, Biden family was $50 million – Kulyk

The initial bribe to close the case against Burisma was $50 million, not $6 million, former senior prosecutor of the Ukraine's Prosecutor General's Office (PGO) Kostiantyn Kulyk said on Monday at a press conference at Interfax Ukraine.

Kulyk said Burisma officials were recently detained while transferring a $6 million bribe to an agent of the National Anti-Corruption Bureau of Ukraine to close the Burisma case.

"The initial amount of the bribe was not $6 million. The size of the bribe was $50 million," he said, showing the relevant documents.

Kulyk said Burisma lawyer Andriy Kich was detained during the bribe attempt.

"Burisma representatives in 2019 delegated this task to Kich, according to the PGO. I have in my hands a report from the prosecutor from my group that investigated the Burisma case. As follows from the report, Burisma and the Deputy Prosecutor General Yenin tried to influence the closure of the case," Kulyk said.

Member of Parliament Andriy Derkach said of Yenin: "Poroshenko arranged for Yenin to become Ukraine's Deputy Minister of Foreign Affairs under (President Volodymyr) Zelensky to control topics sensitive to Poroshenko, (former U.S. Vice President Joe) Biden and American (Deputy Assistant Secretary of State for European and Eurasian Affairs since September 4, 2018) George Kent."

"Yenin continues to this day to communicate with George Kent, reporting weekly over the telephone about the situation," Derkach said.

In August 2019, Kulyk said, he received information that Zlochevsky allocated $ 50 million to close criminal cases related to the activities of Burisma. The main requirements are to close criminal cases involving Burisma."

"I prepared a corresponding report and reported to the prosecutor general about the need to document an attempt to give a bribe. Here is this report," Kulyk said, showing a copy of the document.

The key question, according to Kulyk, is how such a large amount of funds could be transferred.

"You can imagine the volume of notes in the amount of $50 million. It is clear that such a bribe was impossible to give in cash. Therefore, we turned to Ukraine's SBU State Security Service for help in creating a legendary enterprise, which should have been credited. But PGO leadership changed. (Ruslan) Riaboshapka replaced (Yuriy) Lutsenko (as Prosecutor General). Talk about a $50-million bribe stopped after that, and Riaboshapka said that there was no case involving Burisma," Kulyk said.

"One of the episodes of official suspicion of Zlochevsky, case No. 1590, which supposedly was supposed to be closed for $6 million, includes facts of Zlochevsky's complicity in money laundering using Burisma, as well as Rosemont Seneca Boa of Devon Archer from the Biden family's orbit. It was $50 million to close not only Zlochevsky's case, but also against a company close to former U.S. Vice President Joe Biden When Burisma representatives were detained giving a $6 million bribe, Rosemont Seneca Boa, and, accordingly, payments to Biden in the case already did not appear. Sytnyk personally confirmed this at his recent press conference," Kulyk said.

Derkach claimed "the Bidens were suspicious, but disappeared along the way, together with another $44 million dollars, which was the main part of the bribe."

"Everyone made good money. Even stranger is the absence of Biden's name in the case in which he definitely appears, according to NABU Director (Artem) Sytnyk, who does not want to interfere in international political processes. The cynicism of the proposal is astounding. It was namely Sytnyk who interfered in the 2016 U.S. presidential election using fakes from the so-called 'black ledger' incriminating Trump's campaign manager Paul Manafort," Derkach said.

As reported, on June 12, a former official, with the assistance of a State Fiscal Service (SFS) official attempted to transfer $6 million of undue profit to Specialized Anti-Corruption Prosecutor's Office Head Nazar Kholodnytsky and top NABU officials. Mykola Illiashenko, First Deputy Head of Kyiv's Tax Service and Burisma's lawyer Andriy Kich were caught red-handed and arrested.

.

A few months earlier, in November 2019, the article below this appeared in the same newspaper. It's a masterpiece in self-incrimination and pointing fingers. Some of this would ultimately become the foundation for setting up Trump's impeachment. It's crazy how involved Ukraine was in US politics. It is the corruption and money laundering of state-owned money that brought the two countries into ongoing collusion. This, of course, continues to the present day:
.

Biden, partners receive $16.5 mln in payments stolen from Ukraine – MP Derkach

KYIV. Nov 20 (Interfax-Ukraine) – Some $16.5 million received by Hunter Biden, the son of former U.S. Vice President Joe Biden, as payment from Burisma was stolen from Ukrainian citizens, member of parliament Andriy Derkach has said.

Derkach said at a press conference at the Kyiv-based Interfax-Ukraine news agency that on November 14 the Prosecutor General's Office (PGO) announced a new suspicion to the owner of Burisma, former Ecology Minister Mykola Zlochevsky.

"The PGO document once again confirms the data I had previously published on Burisma and international corruption. According to Zlochevsky's suspicion notice, Biden and partners received their $16.5 million for their services to Burisma. Biden received funds not due to the successful activity of Burisma or for brilliant business decisions or recommendations. This is the money of Ukrainian citizens. The funds were obtained by criminal means. That's what they say in the PGO," Derkach said.

Derkach said the new suspicion notice to Zlochevsky was received by him from investigative journalists.

"According to the investigation, Zlochevsky was directly involved in the withdrawal of funds by the Yanukovych "family" (the Yanukovych criminal organization, according to the notice). They laundered the funds of Yanukovych through three companies in Latvia," Derkach said.

As reported, on October 9 Derkach made public official correspondence between the National Anti-corruption Bureau of Ukraine (NABU) and the U.S. Embassy, according to which First Deputy NABU Director Gizo Uglava through his assistant Polina Chizh provided the U.S. Embassy with information that affected the course of events in Ukraine and the United States.

According to him, Chizh received an order from U.S. Embassy employee Hanna Yemelyanova to provide information on the case of Ex-Ecology Minister and Burisma Group owner Mykola Zlochevsky.

Zlochevsky revealed the amount of money that was transferred to the representatives of Burisma Group, including Hunter Biden. According to the documents, about $16.5 million was transferred in favor of Hunter Biden, Aleksander Kwasniewski, Alan Apter, and Devon Archer.

According to Derkach, Ex-Prosecutor General Viktor Shokin repeatedly contacted NABU Director Artem Sytnyk in the framework of criminal proceedings involving Burisma, but constantly received formal replies. The activities of Shokin, according to Derkach, irritated Joe Biden during his fifth visit to Kyiv in two years on December 7-8, 2015. The visit was devoted to the issue of removing Shokin as Prosecutor General and the affairs of Zlochevsky and Burisma.

"The instrument issued for pressure was the $1 billion credit guarantee that the United States should have provided to Ukraine: Biden himself acknowledged the pressure in his speech to the U.S. Foreign Relations Council in January 2018," Derkach said.

On November 11, Derkach said on his video blog that Head of the Specialized Anti-corruption Prosecutor's Office (SAPO) Nazar Kholodnytsky launched an investigation into his allegations that the NABU had provided information to the U.S. Embassy in Ukraine. He also noted that from May 2014 until October 2015, Burisma transferred $4.817 million to Rosemont, and the latter transferred $871,000 to Hunter Biden.

As you can see, there's plenty of evidence to bring charges in the US, if the DOJ were not so mired in corruption itself. Members of the Senate and House engage in this type of influence peddlng on a regular basis with their corporate Donors. The People have no political mechanism to engage in democratic action. The US population is trapped in a political delusion. An effort bring the Biden's or anyone else in government to some sort of justice seems like a pathetic and fruitless gesture. Too little, too late.

Submitted by usefewersyllables on Sun, 08/20/2023 - 12:47am

It is

@QMS

a racket, pure and simple, just as Smedley said.

—

Twice bitten, permanently shy.

Submitted by snoopydawg on Sat, 08/19/2023 - 8:19pm

A lot of people here were doing it too

@Pluto's Republic

I was researching what was happening in Ukraine. I have stacks of newspaper articles that Ukraine Parliament Members and prosecutors file pertaining to crimes committed by the Bidens in Ukraine.

While we were researching the ins and outs of the Russia gate saga we covered people in the Obama administration that were involved in manufacturing evidence and also the people in Ukraine that were sending them lots of fake evidence and whatnots. This was well before Pelosi decided to impeach Trump and I thought that she was doing it to keep some damning information from getting out to the public. Lots of democrats and some republicans were involved there and in the weapons trade. A lot of the info escapes me just now and if I find time I’ll look to see what I said back then. Fiona Hill who testified against Trump was very involved before she became a witness. People in our embassy there were involved and I remember you naming lots of names. A Ukrainian American was sending information to democrats. Chapu…something. I could never remember her name.

Plus we covered the people in the intelligence agencies that had ties to people in other departments. Gah their names just flew out of my brain.

Bottom line is that Biden admitted to bribing someone in Ukraine to fire the prosecutor who was looking into Burisma and Hunter, while Trump asked questions about the Biden corruption. Only one has been impeached so far.

Wasn’t Zlochevsky the owner of Burisma? Or was it Yanukovych ? Or Zlochevsky?I really have trouble remembering foreign names. I do remember that Giuliani went to Ukraine and got a lot of evidence of what you wrote here. But why didn’t Trump do anything about it? Or was he stymied by people in his administration and intelligence agencies. Or Barr. Or did the impeachment put a stop to what he wanted to do? I thought that Trump would have blown the lid off the Russia gate scam once he got into office. One thing he could have done was to have the NSA show whether or not Russia hacked the DNC computers. Schiff was told by the Crowdstrike ceo that he saw no evidence that any information left the computers, but we were only told that just before the election by I think the head of the FBI. Oh yeah and Schiff perjured himself by reading false information into the congressional records. No charges against him or the two lovebirds Page and Strzoke who admitted to each other that they would do everything they could to keep him from winning the election.

Great extra information about the other players in this scheme. I’d think that if there is this much information about what Biden and son did that the republicans would be able to find it too. Hell since we’ve known a lot of the details before the impeachment I can’t think that it would be hard for republicans to find it too.

#7

...I was researching what was happening in Ukraine. I have stacks of newspaper articles that Ukraine Parliament Members and prosecutors file pertaining to crimes committed by the Bidens in Ukraine. They even wanted to get Biden extradited to Kyiv to stand title. At this point, Ukraine was trying to prove to Trump (and the IMF) that they were no longer corrupt. To them, going after Biden made sense to them. Everything the Ukrainians do is screwy and ill-timed.

Meanwhile, Giuliani was in Ukraine stirring the 2015 election-rigging pot looking for evidence. And Joe's handlers were in Kyiv trying to shut things down.

For example:

15:58 22.06.2020
Starting fee for closing case against Burisma, Biden family was $50 million

Starting fee for closing case against Burisma, Biden family was $50 million – Kulyk

The initial bribe to close the case against Burisma was $50 million, not $6 million, former senior prosecutor of the Ukraine's Prosecutor General's Office (PGO) Kostiantyn Kulyk said on Monday at a press conference at Interfax Ukraine.

Kulyk said Burisma officials were recently detained while transferring a $6 million bribe to an agent of the National Anti-Corruption Bureau of Ukraine to close the Burisma case.

"The initial amount of the bribe was not $6 million. The size of the bribe was $50 million," he said, showing the relevant documents.

Kulyk said Burisma lawyer Andriy Kich was detained during the bribe attempt.

"Burisma representatives in 2019 delegated this task to Kich, according to the PGO. I have in my hands a report from the prosecutor from my group that investigated the Burisma case. As follows from the report, Burisma and the Deputy Prosecutor General Yenin tried to influence the closure of the case," Kulyk said.

Member of Parliament Andriy Derkach said of Yenin: "Poroshenko arranged for Yenin to become Ukraine's Deputy Minister of Foreign Affairs under (President Volodymyr) Zelensky to control topics sensitive to Poroshenko, (former U.S. Vice President Joe) Biden and American (Deputy Assistant Secretary of State for European and Eurasian Affairs since September 4, 2018) George Kent."

"Yenin continues to this day to communicate with George Kent, reporting weekly over the telephone about the situation," Derkach said.

In August 2019, Kulyk said, he received information that Zlochevsky allocated $ 50 million to close criminal cases related to the activities of Burisma. The main requirements are to close criminal cases involving Burisma."

"I prepared a corresponding report and reported to the prosecutor general about the need to document an attempt to give a bribe. Here is this report," Kulyk said, showing a copy of the document.

The key question, according to Kulyk, is how such a large amount of funds could be transferred.

"You can imagine the volume of notes in the amount of $50 million. It is clear that such a bribe was impossible to give in cash. Therefore, we turned to Ukraine's SBU State Security Service for help in creating a legendary enterprise, which should have been credited. But PGO leadership changed. (Ruslan) Riaboshapka replaced (Yuriy) Lutsenko (as Prosecutor General). Talk about a $50-million bribe stopped after that, and Riaboshapka said that there was no case involving Burisma," Kulyk said.

"One of the episodes of official suspicion of Zlochevsky, case No. 1590, which supposedly was supposed to be closed for $6 million, includes facts of Zlochevsky's complicity in money laundering using Burisma, as well as Rosemont Seneca Boa of Devon Archer from the Biden family's orbit. It was $50 million to close not only Zlochevsky's case, but also against a company close to former U.S. Vice President Joe Biden When Burisma representatives were detained giving a $6 million bribe, Rosemont Seneca Boa, and, accordingly, payments to Biden in the case already did not appear. Sytnyk personally confirmed this at his recent press conference," Kulyk said.

Derkach claimed "the Bidens were suspicious, but disappeared along the way, together with another $44 million dollars, which was the main part of the bribe."

"Everyone made good money. Even stranger is the absence of Biden's name in the case in which he definitely appears, according to NABU Director (Artem) Sytnyk, who does not want to interfere in international political processes. The cynicism of the proposal is astounding. It was namely Sytnyk who interfered in the 2016 U.S. presidential election using fakes from the so-called 'black ledger' incriminating Trump's campaign manager Paul Manafort," Derkach said.

As reported, on June 12, a former official, with the assistance of a State Fiscal Service (SFS) official attempted to transfer $6 million of undue profit to Specialized Anti-Corruption Prosecutor's Office Head Nazar Kholodnytsky and top NABU officials. Mykola Illiashenko, First Deputy Head of Kyiv's Tax Service and Burisma's lawyer Andriy Kich were caught red-handed and arrested.

.

A few months earlier, in November 2019, the article below this appeared in the same newspaper. It's a masterpiece in self-incrimination and pointing fingers. Some of this would ultimately become the foundation for setting up Trump's impeachment. It's crazy how involved Ukraine was in US politics. It is the corruption and money laundering of state-owned money that brought the two countries into ongoing collusion. This, of course, continues to the present day:
.

Biden, partners receive $16.5 mln in payments stolen from Ukraine – MP Derkach

KYIV. Nov 20 (Interfax-Ukraine) – Some $16.5 million received by Hunter Biden, the son of former U.S. Vice President Joe Biden, as payment from Burisma was stolen from Ukrainian citizens, member of parliament Andriy Derkach has said.

Derkach said at a press conference at the Kyiv-based Interfax-Ukraine news agency that on November 14 the Prosecutor General's Office (PGO) announced a new suspicion to the owner of Burisma, former Ecology Minister Mykola Zlochevsky.

"The PGO document once again confirms the data I had previously published on Burisma and international corruption. According to Zlochevsky's suspicion notice, Biden and partners received their $16.5 million for their services to Burisma. Biden received funds not due to the successful activity of Burisma or for brilliant business decisions or recommendations. This is the money of Ukrainian citizens. The funds were obtained by criminal means. That's what they say in the PGO," Derkach said.

Derkach said the new suspicion notice to Zlochevsky was received by him from investigative journalists.

"According to the investigation, Zlochevsky was directly involved in the withdrawal of funds by the Yanukovych "family" (the Yanukovych criminal organization, according to the notice). They laundered the funds of Yanukovych through three companies in Latvia," Derkach said.

As reported, on October 9 Derkach made public official correspondence between the National Anti-corruption Bureau of Ukraine (NABU) and the U.S. Embassy, according to which First Deputy NABU Director Gizo Uglava through his assistant Polina Chizh provided the U.S. Embassy with information that affected the course of events in Ukraine and the United States.

According to him, Chizh received an order from U.S. Embassy employee Hanna Yemelyanova to provide information on the case of Ex-Ecology Minister and Burisma Group owner Mykola Zlochevsky.

Zlochevsky revealed the amount of money that was transferred to the representatives of Burisma Group, including Hunter Biden. According to the documents, about $16.5 million was transferred in favor of Hunter Biden, Aleksander Kwasniewski, Alan Apter, and Devon Archer.

According to Derkach, Ex-Prosecutor General Viktor Shokin repeatedly contacted NABU Director Artem Sytnyk in the framework of criminal proceedings involving Burisma, but constantly received formal replies. The activities of Shokin, according to Derkach, irritated Joe Biden during his fifth visit to Kyiv in two years on December 7-8, 2015. The visit was devoted to the issue of removing Shokin as Prosecutor General and the affairs of Zlochevsky and Burisma.

"The instrument issued for pressure was the $1 billion credit guarantee that the United States should have provided to Ukraine: Biden himself acknowledged the pressure in his speech to the U.S. Foreign Relations Council in January 2018," Derkach said.

On November 11, Derkach said on his video blog that Head of the Specialized Anti-corruption Prosecutor's Office (SAPO) Nazar Kholodnytsky launched an investigation into his allegations that the NABU had provided information to the U.S. Embassy in Ukraine. He also noted that from May 2014 until October 2015, Burisma transferred $4.817 million to Rosemont, and the latter transferred $871,000 to Hunter Biden.

As you can see, there's plenty of evidence to bring charges in the US, if the DOJ were not so mired in corruption itself. Members of the Senate and House engage in this type of influence peddlng on a regular basis with their corporate Donors. The People have no political mechanism to engage in democratic action. The US population is trapped in a political delusion. An effort bring the Biden's or anyone else in government to some sort of justice seems like a pathetic and fruitless gesture. Too little, too late.

—

Which AIPAC/MIC/pharma/bank bought politician are you going to vote for? Don’t be surprised when nothing changes.

Submitted by Pluto's Republic on Mon, 08/21/2023 - 4:20pm

I posted these examples

@snoopydawg

...(and there are many more) to commiserate with the lament you posted about the fact that there is no justice for blatant corruption and criminal activity among top level politicians. In the case of Biden, there is not any need for a special investigator (to cover up the crimes and muddy the waters). The evidence and documents are all out there and already published.

You gave a great recap on what was discovered. It brought back many things I had forgotten. Her name was Chalupa. We pretty much worked together for several years getting ahead of this thing. The deceit of this nation and its government is vast and never-ending. I do pursue the truth about what it is and how it works to protect myself and others. But I will not waste a moment of my life trying to change it. That is truly a waste and a trap. The country is just fine, as it is. It serves as a living monument that reminds me (and the rest of the world) of the kind of leadership we don't want. In order for understanding to be assimilated and wisdom to evolve across all humanity, the US must be allowed to fail by its own hand in the swamp of chaos it has unleashed in the world..

I’d think that if there is this much information about what Biden and son did that the republicans would be able to find it too.

They have. It was an excellent Republican journalist, John Soloman, who was the first to crack the Ukrainian corruption connection. He gathered all of the documents and published them. He talked to all the co-conspiriters in Ukraine and DC. He laid the foundation the corruption and stacked it sky high with damning documents and witness testimony. But, alas, even the Republicans are suppressed by the owners, overlords, and beneficiaries of the shell-democracy of the USG.

If Republicans were to expose the corruption in the system, would also be exposing themselves as accessories to high crimes. Political parties are on the lowest rung of the power ladder. They are civilians and temporary employees of this shell democracy. Veteran investigator-deciders like Mueller, Barr, and Dunham are the Praetorian Guards of the Deep State. Throughout much of their careers they have subverted investigations critical of government, sacrificing 'fall guys' for prosecution. President-appointed judiciary waits in line to take their places. Ultimately, core FBI, and unnamed special operations agents are the Catchers in the Rye for national security — ready to neutralize anything, or anyone who is just too inconvenient.

Remember this picture?

I'm pretty sure this image was the last post that Julian Assange made before he was arrested. When the right people get around to investigating what I have just said, and what it represents, there may be productive change in the Assange situation.

______________________________

[edit = correct typo, add the following sentence : "In order for understanding to be assimilated and wisdom to evolve across all humanity, the US must be allowed to fail by its own hand in the swamp of chaos it has unleashed in the world."

#7.2 I was researching what was happening in Ukraine. I have stacks of newspaper articles that Ukraine Parliament Members and prosecutors file pertaining to crimes committed by the Bidens in Ukraine. While we were researching the ins and outs of the Russia gate saga we covered people in the Obama administration that were involved in manufacturing evidence and also the people in Ukraine that were sending them lots of fake evidence and whatnots. This was well before Pelosi decided to impeach Trump and I thought that she was doing it to keep some damning information from getting out to the public. Lots of democrats and some republicans were involved there and in the weapons trade. A lot of the info escapes me just now and if I find time I’ll look to see what I said back then. Fiona Hill who testified against Trump was very involved before she became a witness. People in our embassy there were involved and I remember you naming lots of names. A Ukrainian American was sending information to democrats. Chapu…something. I could never remember her name. Plus we covered the people in the intelligence agencies that had ties to people in other departments. Gah their names just flew out of my brain. Bottom line is that Biden admitted to bribing someone in Ukraine to fire the prosecutor who was looking into Burisma and Hunter, while Trump asked questions about the Biden corruption. Only one has been impeached so far. Wasn’t Zlochevsky the owner of Burisma? Or was it Yanukovych ? Or Zlochevsky?I really have trouble remembering foreign names. I do remember that Giuliani went to Ukraine and got a lot of evidence of what you wrote here. But why didn’t Trump do anything about it? Or was he stymied by people in his administration and intelligence agencies. Or Barr. Or did the impeachment put a stop to what he wanted to do? I thought that Trump would have blown the lid off the Russia gate scam once he got into office. One thing he could have done was to have the NSA show whether or not Russia hacked the DNC computers. Schiff was told by the Crowdstrike ceo that he saw no evidence that any information left the computers, but we were only told that just before the election by I think the head of the FBI. Oh yeah and Schiff perjured himself by reading false information into the congressional records. No charges against him or the two lovebirds Page and Strzoke who admitted to each other that they would do everything they could to keep him from winning the election. Great extra information about the other players in this scheme. I’d think that if there is this much information about what Biden and son did that the republicans would be able to find it too. Hell since we’ve known a lot of the details before the impeachment I can’t think that it would be hard for republicans to find it too.

—

____________________

The political system is what it is because the People are who they are. — Plato

Submitted by snoopydawg on Sun, 08/20/2023 - 10:11pm

John Soloman

@Pluto's Republic

Thanks. I couldn’t remember his name. I do remember reading his information on this and he did connect a lot of the dots between the people in Ukraine and who they gave information to. Nellie Ohr was another name I couldn’t come up with yesterday. I think she worked for the CIA while her husband worked for fusion gps. Maybe it was the other way around, but they were neck deep in passing fake info and stories about Trump and the people in his campaign. Remember one person who tried to pass on fake info about Russia met with the head of fusion before and after the meeting. Good golly there is so much stuff that we knew about and covered here years before the impeachment. We all did great work investigating the scam. We should have gotten a Pulitzer!

If Republicans were to expose the corruption in the system, would also be exposing themselves as accessories to high crimes.

Reminds me of the Benghazi hearings that republicans pretended to interrogate Hillary about. They only focused on the security part of the event and asked why they didn’t provide more of it that led to Stevens and 4 others being killed. But they were not interested in finding out what they were doing at the Libyan Embassy which was giving weapons to the upcoming Syrian terrorists that were going to be used to overthrow Assad. And they weren’t the least bit interested in why Hillary used her foundation as a pay to play card. Got a problem with the US government? Give the foundation a few million and she will make it disappear. Or why she signed off on selling Russia our uranium and giving Bill $500k to give a speech to a Russian bank.

Absolutely!

Veteran investigator-deciders like Mueller, Barr, and Dunham are the Praetorian Guards of the Deep State. Throughout much of their careers they have subverted investigations critical of government, sacrificing 'fall guys' for prosecution

I should have figured that out when Fitzmas didn’t find information to hold Scooter Libby responsible for outing Valerie Plame. He said people kicked sand on home plate and he couldn’t see if the runner was out.

This site does great work getting to the nitty gritty on things. We were one of the first to show how Covid would be used to transfer money upwards while we peasants got peanuts.

#7.2.2

...(and there are many more) to commiserate with the lament you posted about the fact that there is no justice for blatant corruption and criminal activity among top level politicians. In the case of Biden, there is not any need for a special investigator (to cover up the crimes and muddy the waters). The evidence and documents are all out there and already published.

You gave a great recap on what was discovered. It brought back many things I had forgotten. Her name was Chalupa. We pretty much worked together for several years getting ahead of this thing. The deceit of this nation and its government is vast and never-ending. I do pursue the truth about what it is and how it works to protect myself and others. But I will not waste a moment of my life trying to change it. That is truly a waste and a trap. The country is just fine, as it is. It serves as a living monument that reminds me (and the rest of the world) of the kind of leadership we don't want. In order for understanding to be assimilated and wisdom to evolve across all humanity, the US must be allowed to fail by its own hand in the swamp of chaos it has unleashed in the world..

I’d think that if there is this much information about what Biden and son did that the republicans would be able to find it too.

.

They have. It was an excellent Republican journalist, John Soloman, who was the first to crack the Ukrainian corruption connection. He gathered all of the documents and published them. He talked to all the co-conspiriters in Ukraine and DC. He laid the foundation the corruption and stacked it sky high with damning documents and witness testimony. But, alas, even the Republicans are suppressed by the owners, overlords, and beneficiaries of the shell-democracy of the USG.

If Republicans were to expose the corruption in the system, would also be exposing themselves as accessories to high crimes. Political parties are on the lowest rung of the power ladder. They are civilians and temporary employees of this shell democracy. Veteran investigator-deciders like Mueller, Barr, and Dunham are the Praetorian Guards of the Deep State. Throughout much of their careers they have subverted investigations critical of government, sacrificing 'fall guys' for prosecution. President-appointed judiciary waits in line to take their places. Ultimately, core FBI, and unnamed special operations agents are the Catchers in the Rye for national security — ready to neutralize anything, or anyone who is just too inconvenient.

Remember this picture?

I'm pretty sure this image was the last post that Julian Assange made before he was arrested. When the right people get around to investigating what I have just said, and what it represents, there may be productive change in the Assange situation.

______________________________

[edit = correct typo, add the following sentence : "In order for understanding to be assimilated and wisdom to evolve across all humanity, the US must be allowed to fail by its own hand in the swamp of chaos it has unleashed in the world."

—

Which AIPAC/MIC/pharma/bank bought politician are you going to vote for? Don’t be surprised when nothing changes.

Submitted by Lookout on Sun, 08/20/2023 - 6:56am

I want to say...

@snoopydawg

this is an excellent comment and lays bare our injustice/lawfare system.

. Wait for the ending... -The President of the United States used his Son to negotiate business deals -in industries he knew nothing about -trading exclusively on political favors -he ordered and bragged about (on video) getting a prosecutor fired -the very prosecutor who his… — Liberty Lockdown w/ Clint Russell (@LibertyLockPod) August 18, 2023 Wait for the ending… -The President of the United States used his Son to negotiate business deals -in industries he knew nothing about -trading exclusively on political favors -he ordered and bragged about (on video) getting a prosecutor fired -the very prosecutor who his Son’s employer wanted fired -these requests were documented in emails to his Son -emails the FBI possessed -from a laptop they possessed -which the FBI covered up -he used a pseudonym of Robert L. Peters to schedule meetings and calls with his Son’s business associates -he also declared repeatedly that he knew nothing of his Son’s business dealings -an FBI whistle-blower then swore that his Son’s employer (Zlochevsky of Burisma) told him that he was extorted for a bribe to get this very prosecutor fired -an IRS whistle-blower then swore that the investigations into his Son were intentionally botched -a plea deal was then offered to his Son that would’ve granted blanket immunity for all of this He faces no impeachment He faces no criminal charges His predecessor faces 717 yrs in prison For questioning the legitimacy of the elections which installed the man who was ushered into office, with the assistance of the -IRS -FBI -corporate news and social media who worked in tandem to hide all of this from the America voters literally days before they were set to vote. During elections that were procedurally changed in completely novel ways .Based on a pandemic which originated in a Chinese lab while doing gain of function research using US tax payer dollars. And the guy in charge of mitigating the pandemic was the one who greenlit that funding. Despite that research being illegal. All of which he lied to congress about. He also faces no investigations. Or criminal charges. You aren’t crazy. You’re being lied to. The people who are dropping RICO charges on Trump are not upholding the law. They are the cleanup crew. Sent to bury Trump, his attorneys and ultimately any dissident political movement from this point forward. If they prevail in doing so then anyone that attempts to uncover the truth will face a similar fate. These are the stakes. This is what you’re up against. I’m not a Trump supporter I’m just a guy that cares about justice and the American people. Oh and I hate liars and corruption. Do not stop fighting for what’s right. The stakes couldn’t be higher.. Biden has used lots of pseudonyms in his emails and other accounts and that is what this is referring to. Minor side note: Now we know the origin of "Pedo Pete" (Robert L Peters) in Hunter's phone. — Fake Forest Ranger (@WayneWeil) August 18, 2023 Pedo Pete! Hello….anyone else got something to say today?

—

“Until justice rolls down like water and righteousness like a mighty stream.”

Submitted by snoopydawg on Sat, 08/19/2023 - 12:47pm

Pssst.. It’s me again

Delaware judge dismisses tax charges against Hunter Biden https://t.co/UOBPkosb8p pic.twitter.com/FiqLDTC3UG

— New York Post (@nypost) August 18, 2023

I’m trying to find more information on this. It might have been done because the plea deal was rejected and Hunter is going to stand trial. Or it might be something more nefarious. Stay tuned, but if he skates on actual felony tax evasion then we are truly a banana republic. That’s if we haven’t been one all along.

—

Which AIPAC/MIC/pharma/bank bought politician are you going to vote for? Don’t be surprised when nothing changes.

Submitted by humphrey on Sat, 08/19/2023 - 1:09pm

Not really a surprise!

Records show a pattern of railroad workers getting disciplined or fired for reporting safety violations or injuries by managers who don't want to see the trains slowed down. https://t.co/oLJv1F5O4T

— The Associated Press (@AP) August 19, 2023

Submitted by snoopydawg on Sat, 08/19/2023 - 4:00pm

Right after the East Palestine disaster

@humphrey

Congress was upset enough that they were going to crack down on railway unsafety. But enough time has passed and their steam wore off and the lobbyists started throwing their money and weight around and they started watering down the bill. Meanwhile there have been numerous other train derailments and I haven’t heard a peep about what congress is going to do.

I would think that it would be cheaper to pay for safety than have to clean up numerous disasters. But maybe they ain’t doing it. The corruption in this country is off the charts and people are finally waking up and seeing it. What can be done about it I don’t know, but awareness is a good start. I don’t see how voting for either Trump or Biden will change anything because both are just as corrupt as the rest of the government. Seriously the best they can do is offer a choice between those two? No wonder Russia and others are LOL-ING.

—

Which AIPAC/MIC/pharma/bank bought politician are you going to vote for? Don’t be surprised when nothing changes.

Submitted by humphrey on Sat, 08/19/2023 - 1:23pm

The Pentagon is unable to account as to where the weapons

supplied actually end up.

Wow, the Burkina-Faso Defense Minister laying it as it is

Everyone wants to plunder post-war Ukraine & sign reconstruction contracts, no one thinks about how you’ll disarm it and reintegrate millions of people forced into war

What happens when the weapons end up in Africa? pic.twitter.com/fAmle2m47e

— What the media hides. (@narrative_hole) August 19, 2023

Submitted by enhydra lutris on Sat, 08/19/2023 - 2:15pm

Seriously doubt that he weapons will be recovered and

@humphrey

decommissioned or destroyed.

be well and have a good one

—

That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

Submitted by enhydra lutris on Sat, 08/19/2023 - 2:18pm

He could turn out to be right, but there is no reason to

be well and have a good one

EDIT _ supposed to be a reply to Snoopydawg, above

—

That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

Submitted by QMS on Sat, 08/19/2023 - 7:16pm

Two wrongs do not make a right

@enhydra lutris

in any which way we evaluate.
I agree - show me a reasonable explanation
and perhaps it will be considered.

Cheers!

Submitted by enhydra lutris on Sat, 08/19/2023 - 2:36pm

Good morning soe. How are the peaches and how long

ago did you plant the tree(s)? Wonder if they'd grow here and, more importantly, could we beat the critters to any of them.

Didn't set much at farmers' market today, we overshopped last week. We get everything we think we'll probably need for the week ahead and then things happen and we have a lot left over sometimees. My week to cook starts tomorrow and I only have 2 meals planned, I'm tentatively planning on just dreaming up stuff that uses what we have on hand.

I just got a new "hiking staff" delivered by UPS; one that collapses. For a while I had to use something and my old 55 inch home-brew one became a real PITA if we decided to go to a restaurant or such. (The plan, of course, is to never need or use it except for hiking, but ...) Of course, the TSA won't allow them on planes, but that's we expect from our government these days, so no surprise.

I saw J. Dore had a clip featuring yet another of Biden's breaks into incoherence, but I feel compelled to ask, even considering those events, is he even arguably less coherent than Kamala?

be well and have a good one

—

That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

Submitted by studentofearth on Tue, 08/22/2023 - 8:49am

The peach tree was planted 5 years ago and

@enhydra lutris it took 4 winters for its bloom to coordinate with the nectarine tree. Which has still not produced fruit after 15 years. I covered the tree to keep the birds from the ripening fruit, do not have a squirrel population. Bug control was provided by the largest praying mantis I have personally seen.

Fragrance of peaches has filled the house the last few day. Struck a memory cord of assisting my Mom canning fruit. I realized the produce section in the markets no longer smell of ripening fruit and vegetables. The fresh apples I bought this past year at a couple of markets this past year tasted like preservatives. Slicing and drying the fruit off the Transparent apple tree for future eating.

—

Still yourself, deep water can absorb many disturbances with minimal reaction.
--When the opening appears release yourself.

Submitted by on the cusp on Sat, 08/19/2023 - 3:43pm

Another business call on a vacay day.

I will compliment my secretary for giving me a heads up on a difficult retrieval of kids who are in another state. She really cares about my clients, worries the mom/ex-wife will disappear with the kids. I am sitting out on the balcony, seeing the occasional dolphin, making the plan to get a writ of attachment for the Kansas police to help place the kids with their Dad.
I will retire one day...

—

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981

Submitted by QMS on Sat, 08/19/2023 - 4:57pm

No rest for the weary

@on the cusp

Good on you to get away for awhile anyway.
Still trying to figure out how to retire.
Still at 7 (shorter) days a week here.

what it is it about those cows?

Submitted by on the cusp on Sat, 08/19/2023 - 6:32pm

I think it will be very hard

@QMS for me to retire. I will keep my license active. That requires 15 hours of legal education classes annually. A few deeds here, a few wills there, preparing divorce docs for people representing themselves, just no more drama. Abused kids, spouses, people stealing from fellow heirs in probate, etc...i will at least get away from that.
We absolutely love this Gulf Shores condo. Hate to leave it, but home is calling.
I feel your 7 day work week. It just never ends, does it?

—

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981

Submitted by QMS on Sat, 08/19/2023 - 7:06pm

In some strange way

@on the cusp

I wish upon a star that it will find a happy ending,
then there is the realization that was a hollyweird
explanation of how life is supposed to be.

Good luck!

Submitted by usefewersyllables on Sun, 08/20/2023 - 12:52am

My retirement plan

@on the cusp

is “die at my desk”. My life goal, on the other hand, is “die on my deck in my tux with a drink in my hand”.

“Die peacefully in my sleep of natural causes” has never been on my radar. Ever. Certainly not since I was 9 years old, anyway. I don’t even know how that would feel.,.

—

Twice bitten, permanently shy.

Submitted by Lookout on Sun, 08/20/2023 - 7:00am

I want to die like my grandmother, peacefully in my sleep...

@usefewersyllables

...not screaming and yelling like the passengers in her car.

—

“Until justice rolls down like water and righteousness like a mighty stream.”

Submitted by on the cusp on Sat, 08/19/2023 - 4:20pm

We took a look

at the weather forecast back home that extended to September 3rd, highs in the 100s daily, 2 days with low percentage chance of rain. The grass is burned, cattlemen are already having to feed their herds. I have no memory of this happening in my lifetime.

—

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981

Submitted by soryang on Sat, 08/19/2023 - 10:17pm

Enjoyed Doug Valentine's interview

...and also Ray and Larry Johnson with the Judge. I read the first review of Doug's book at one of the Phoenix Program book web sites. It was rather long, very detailed, and appalling.

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/32471289-the-phoenix-program

It reminded me of a lot of things I learned about war in SE Asia when I was young, both from study, because I didn't want to go and needed to defend my position with adults that thought they knew better, knowing veterans over the years who had deployed to Vietnam, and my own experience alone in military libraries looking at studies. Later, I met even more friends and acquaintances I came to know fairly well who were soldiers there. The thing that comes to mind most I think I got from one of the Vietnam books, was that barely anyone in the US could even read or speak Vietnamese during the conflict. The language and cultural barrier is enormous. It's easy to delude onself that one's own national view of what is going on in another country is correct basically because one rarely hears anyone contradict it.

I knew one special forces nco very well, who told me he worked in the Phoenix program and couldn't really understand Vietnamese even though he had received some minimal language training from the military. He acknowledged that he participated in interrogations of suspected "Viet Cong" with ARVN soldiers. How could you if you didn't speak the language? Did it matter? He told me he could understand from the body language, which was the most ridiculous thing I ever heard. I met another former junior Army officer, middle aged when I met him, who wrote a book about his unit's experience in Vietnam. Again, in the book he revealed that he rarely understood what was going on around him, and that his minimal language training was basically useless as a tactical matter. As a result of not being able to read some of the "signs" or "indicators" of potential threats, his unit was ambushed and suffered losses. One of the signs he learned to read was that among the among the ARVN there was no commitment to stand and fight. Therefore, when their location in the battle zone became unclear or they had suddenly disappeared, it was an indicator an attack was imminent. I don't say this to disparage anyone. I quite understand why any Vietnamese wouldn't want to give their life for the futile cause of an occupying foreign power. In basic I met an Army helo pilot, who admitted that detained Vietnamese had been thrown out of his aircraft in midflight.

I read Hotel Tacloban a few weeks ago in a couple of days, it's not that long. It was one of the most authentic POW stories I've encountered. I think Valentine's description of the ideological discipline enforcement in military/intelligence work was exactly right. I think it was the most accurate description of it that I've encountered. It's not really just confined to those institutions but applied across the board in government institutions. Really a worthwhile video. Thanks @studentofearth

I put this link to the official statement from the white house about the Camp David show because it's an example of official US imperial ideology. I doubt if either Japan or South Korea are onboard with the whole thing, because it is mostly about US foreign policy interests rather than theirs although the right wing LDP government likely shares more of these goals, at least nominally. The Joint Statement is overstated, overreaching, and overextended. Yoon is just being taken for a ride.

The Spirit of Camp David: Joint Statement of Japan, the Republic of Korea, and the United States
https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2023/08/18/...

—

語必忠信行必正直

Submitted by humphrey on Sat, 08/19/2023 - 11:52pm

Having glanced at the joint statement I find this to be ironic.

@soryang

US urges China to cease military pressure against Taiwan https://t.co/CQVAbGWdlm pic.twitter.com/pJYGax2zzt

— Reuters (@Reuters) August 19, 2023

...and also Ray and Larry Johnson with the Judge. I read the first review of Doug's book at one of the Phoenix Program book web sites. It was rather long, very detailed, and appalling. https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/32471289-the-phoenix-program It reminded me of a lot of things I learned about war in SE Asia when I was young, both from study, because I didn't want to go and needed to defend my position with adults that thought they knew better, knowing veterans over the years who had deployed to Vietnam, and my own experience alone in military libraries looking at studies. Later, I met even more friends and acquaintances I came to know fairly well who were soldiers there. The thing that comes to mind most I think I got from one of the Vietnam books, was that barely anyone in the US could even read or speak Vietnamese during the conflict. The language and cultural barrier is enormous. It's easy to delude onself that one's own national view of what is going on in another country is correct basically because one rarely hears anyone contradict it. I knew one special forces nco very well, who told me he worked in the Phoenix program and couldn't really understand Vietnamese even though he had received some minimal language training from the military. He acknowledged that he participated in interrogations of suspected "Viet Cong" with ARVN soldiers. How could you if you didn't speak the language? Did it matter? He told me he could understand from the body language, which was the most ridiculous thing I ever heard. I met another former junior Army officer, middle aged when I met him, who wrote a book about his unit's experience in Vietnam. Again, in the book he revealed that he rarely understood what was going on around him, and that his minimal language training was basically useless as a tactical matter. As a result of not being able to read some of the "signs" or "indicators" of potential threats, his unit was ambushed and suffered losses. One of the signs he learned to read was that among the among the ARVN there was no commitment to stand and fight. Therefore, when their location in the battle zone became unclear or they had suddenly disappeared, it was an indicator an attack was imminent. I don't say this to disparage anyone. I quite understand why any Vietnamese wouldn't want to give their life for the futile cause of an occupying foreign power. In basic I met an Army helo pilot, who admitted that detained Vietnamese had been thrown out of his aircraft in midflight. I read Hotel Tacloban a few weeks ago in a couple of days, it's not that long. It was one of the most authentic POW stories I've encountered. I think Valentine's description of the ideological discipline enforcement in military/intelligence work was exactly right. I think it was the most accurate description of it that I've encountered. It's not really just confined to those institutions but applied across the board in government institutions. Really a worthwhile video. Thanks @studentofearth I put this link to the official statement from the white house about the Camp David show because it's an example of official US imperial ideology. I doubt if either Japan or South Korea are onboard with the whole thing, because it is mostly about US foreign policy interests rather than theirs although the right wing LDP government likely shares more of these goals, at least nominally. The Joint Statement is overstated, overreaching, and overextended. Yoon is just being taken for a ride. The Spirit of Camp David: Joint Statement of Japan, the Republic of Korea, and the United States https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2023/08/18/...

Submitted by snoopydawg on Sat, 08/19/2023 - 11:58pm

Ironic is one word for this

@humphrey

I can think of many other words in response to this. But seriously just how effing idiotic can the neocons running this shitshow be? China would be ignoring Taiwan right now if it wasn’t for the shit heads in government started minding their own gd business. Maybe they can switch their attention to the rot that is happening in their own country. I’m sure that the Chinese are reacting the same way I am. With utter disgust.

—

Which AIPAC/MIC/pharma/bank bought politician are you going to vote for? Don’t be surprised when nothing changes.

Submitted by soryang on Sun, 08/20/2023 - 12:59pm

Not a Reuters fan

@humphrey It is ironic. What did they expect? I know that the LDP wanted to "widen the front" against China because of its East China sea disputes. They played a role in orchestrating the 2016 UNCLOS "mandatory arbitration" ostensibly on behalf of the Philippines. There is a reference to the SCS in the Camp David statement. I can't see any advantage to South Korea to get involved in US-Japanese disputes with China. The statement mentioned militarization of South China Sea "islands" by China, but didn't mention Vietnam that does the exact same thing.

I think Snoopydog is right. It's the US that disturbed the status quo with respect to China and Taiwan. The US simply abandoned the previous US one China policy adopted in the three communiques. The current US policy "gunboat approach" is very 19th Century, which makes the US-Japanese "tri-lateral" approach very provocative to China as well.

It wasn't that long ago that Abe's brother, former Defense Minister Kishi, visited Taiwan and pledged Japanese support against any Chinese "aggression." PM Kishida tried to keep him on, but the Moonie problem didn't allow it. The Japanese attitude and approach is also affected by the prior colonial relationship with Taiwan and other parts of the former Japanese Empire (including Korea). For these reasons a nine ship joint Russian Chinese fleet has been operating around Japan recently.

Americans just can't live with ambiguity. "Yur wit us or agin us." So the unique formula adopted by Nixon and Kissinger was just too restrictive for the expansionist footprint of the US. which is labelled as "containment" of Chinese aggression. The whole approach is destabilizing, which accelerates the diversion of public resources to the US war sector.

I don't think the US trilateral approach will go very far with ASEAN, with the exception of the Philippines.

China-Philippines dispute could escalate into superpower conflict, say analysts
Helen Davidson
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/aug/08/china-philippines-dispute-...

Another resupply mission eyed for PH troops in Ayungin Shoal
By Priam Nepomuceno, August 8, 2023, 1:58 pm
https://www.pna.gov.ph/articles/1207339

The residents of Pag-asa: Life on a disputed island
MAY 18, 2015
https://www.rappler.com/nation/93563-feature-pagasa-residents-philippines/

—

語必忠信行必正直

Submitted by on the cusp on Sat, 08/19/2023 - 11:54pm

A lawyer pal of mine served in nam.

@soryang He saw many Vietnamese soldiers tossed from the helicopter if they didn't give requested info. I couldn't believe it when he said it, as he is as good a human as anyone I know...he said it worked. I guess that is how he accepts it, doesn't suffer from ptsd. He wasn't a churchgoer then, but post-active duty, is a Bible thumper. We all deal with tragedy and grief differently. He found his way.
Makes me want to disband the military, but that is just me.

...and also Ray and Larry Johnson with the Judge. I read the first review of Doug's book at one of the Phoenix Program book web sites. It was rather long, very detailed, and appalling. https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/32471289-the-phoenix-program It reminded me of a lot of things I learned about war in SE Asia when I was young, both from study, because I didn't want to go and needed to defend my position with adults that thought they knew better, knowing veterans over the years who had deployed to Vietnam, and my own experience alone in military libraries looking at studies. Later, I met even more friends and acquaintances I came to know fairly well who were soldiers there. The thing that comes to mind most I think I got from one of the Vietnam books, was that barely anyone in the US could even read or speak Vietnamese during the conflict. The language and cultural barrier is enormous. It's easy to delude onself that one's own national view of what is going on in another country is correct basically because one rarely hears anyone contradict it. I knew one special forces nco very well, who told me he worked in the Phoenix program and couldn't really understand Vietnamese even though he had received some minimal language training from the military. He acknowledged that he participated in interrogations of suspected "Viet Cong" with ARVN soldiers. How could you if you didn't speak the language? Did it matter? He told me he could understand from the body language, which was the most ridiculous thing I ever heard. I met another former junior Army officer, middle aged when I met him, who wrote a book about his unit's experience in Vietnam. Again, in the book he revealed that he rarely understood what was going on around him, and that his minimal language training was basically useless as a tactical matter. As a result of not being able to read some of the "signs" or "indicators" of potential threats, his unit was ambushed and suffered losses. One of the signs he learned to read was that among the among the ARVN there was no commitment to stand and fight. Therefore, when their location in the battle zone became unclear or they had suddenly disappeared, it was an indicator an attack was imminent. I don't say this to disparage anyone. I quite understand why any Vietnamese wouldn't want to give their life for the futile cause of an occupying foreign power. In basic I met an Army helo pilot, who admitted that detained Vietnamese had been thrown out of his aircraft in midflight. I read Hotel Tacloban a few weeks ago in a couple of days, it's not that long. It was one of the most authentic POW stories I've encountered. I think Valentine's description of the ideological discipline enforcement in military/intelligence work was exactly right. I think it was the most accurate description of it that I've encountered. It's not really just confined to those institutions but applied across the board in government institutions. Really a worthwhile video. Thanks @studentofearth I put this link to the official statement from the white house about the Camp David show because it's an example of official US imperial ideology. I doubt if either Japan or South Korea are onboard with the whole thing, because it is mostly about US foreign policy interests rather than theirs although the right wing LDP government likely shares more of these goals, at least nominally. The Joint Statement is overstated, overreaching, and overextended. Yoon is just being taken for a ride. The Spirit of Camp David: Joint Statement of Japan, the Republic of Korea, and the United States https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2023/08/18/...

—

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981

Submitted by soryang on Sun, 08/20/2023 - 11:36am

Excellent observation

@on the cusp ...about the religious response. I could be wrong but I think the essence of this in at least in some cases is the notion of forgiveness which is central doctrinally to some denominations/congregations. No one is too far gone not to be saved. That's the theory or the "hook" if you will.

Sometimes there is an issue of whether a war veteran has ptsd (survival guilt) or just a terrible case of guilt period for some awful act(s) they committed themselves.

Occasionally this is a moral or ethical dimension to pstd stressors. I don't consider murder, torture, etc of civilian detainees or POWs in violation of the Geneva conventions valid stressors. I'm also not a big fan of the so called "unlawful combatants" argument as a legal matter, without essential due process. I mostly consider the Cheney argument for going over to the "dark side" and the John Yoo type of legal rationalizations disgraceful. Some of these legal practices during the "war on terror" disgusted me.

Thanks for your response OTC.

—

語必忠信行必正直

Submitted by Pluto's Republic on Mon, 08/21/2023 - 5:06pm

Soryang, you may want to take a look

@soryang @soryang

....at this link:

Camp David "Summit" Results Mirror Biden's Dementia

The author, Karl Sanchez, is a particularly astute commenter at MOA (as Karlof1). He began his own substack where he discusses the strange Camp David Summit. His analysis of open-source intelligence is very, very good.

Russia didn’t start a war of aggression in Ukraine; the Outlaw US Empire did that in 2014 and deliberately broke International Law (Minsk 2) to ensure the current conflict occurred. The primary aim of US policy is to subjugate all nations to its will via Full Spectrum Dominance, so there’s no possible advancement of security and prosperity for anyone as long as that goal remains. Opinion polls show Koreans oppose Yoon’s current policy toward Japan, so relations aren’t being improved but worsened. And finally, the Outlaw US Empire occupies both Korea and Japan and as such neither nation is sovereign to even negotiate an “alliance”—their current condition was forced by the outcome of WW2.

Again, only the Outlaw US Empire is sovereign in this case — as the other two are occupied vassals and have no sovereignty. Thus, “consultations” are usually diktats to ensure the correct narrative—”align our messaging”—is being followed:

Russia invaded; it’s all Russia’s fault; we didn’t blow up Nord Stream; we didn’t engineer the 2014 coup; we haven’t been supporting Nazis since 1945, nor did we keep Japanese War Criminals from facing justice or adopt their biological warfare and other criminal experiments for our own use. What was it Obama said about history? The USA didn’t wage a war of genocide on Southeast Asian peoples that was a massive crime the region is still recovering from. ASEAN has no reason to fear the Outlaw US Empire as long as they target China and refuse to trade with it despite China being ASEAN’s largest trading partner.

Go to the link to see China's response.

...and also Ray and Larry Johnson with the Judge. I read the first review of Doug's book at one of the Phoenix Program book web sites. It was rather long, very detailed, and appalling. https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/32471289-the-phoenix-program It reminded me of a lot of things I learned about war in SE Asia when I was young, both from study, because I didn't want to go and needed to defend my position with adults that thought they knew better, knowing veterans over the years who had deployed to Vietnam, and my own experience alone in military libraries looking at studies. Later, I met even more friends and acquaintances I came to know fairly well who were soldiers there. The thing that comes to mind most I think I got from one of the Vietnam books, was that barely anyone in the US could even read or speak Vietnamese during the conflict. The language and cultural barrier is enormous. It's easy to delude onself that one's own national view of what is going on in another country is correct basically because one rarely hears anyone contradict it. I knew one special forces nco very well, who told me he worked in the Phoenix program and couldn't really understand Vietnamese even though he had received some minimal language training from the military. He acknowledged that he participated in interrogations of suspected "Viet Cong" with ARVN soldiers. How could you if you didn't speak the language? Did it matter? He told me he could understand from the body language, which was the most ridiculous thing I ever heard. I met another former junior Army officer, middle aged when I met him, who wrote a book about his unit's experience in Vietnam. Again, in the book he revealed that he rarely understood what was going on around him, and that his minimal language training was basically useless as a tactical matter. As a result of not being able to read some of the "signs" or "indicators" of potential threats, his unit was ambushed and suffered losses. One of the signs he learned to read was that among the among the ARVN there was no commitment to stand and fight. Therefore, when their location in the battle zone became unclear or they had suddenly disappeared, it was an indicator an attack was imminent. I don't say this to disparage anyone. I quite understand why any Vietnamese wouldn't want to give their life for the futile cause of an occupying foreign power. In basic I met an Army helo pilot, who admitted that detained Vietnamese had been thrown out of his aircraft in midflight. I read Hotel Tacloban a few weeks ago in a couple of days, it's not that long. It was one of the most authentic POW stories I've encountered. I think Valentine's description of the ideological discipline enforcement in military/intelligence work was exactly right. I think it was the most accurate description of it that I've encountered. It's not really just confined to those institutions but applied across the board in government institutions. Really a worthwhile video. Thanks @studentofearth I put this link to the official statement from the white house about the Camp David show because it's an example of official US imperial ideology. I doubt if either Japan or South Korea are onboard with the whole thing, because it is mostly about US foreign policy interests rather than theirs although the right wing LDP government likely shares more of these goals, at least nominally. The Joint Statement is overstated, overreaching, and overextended. Yoon is just being taken for a ride. The Spirit of Camp David: Joint Statement of Japan, the Republic of Korea, and the United States https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2023/08/18/...

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The political system is what it is because the People are who they are. — Plato

Submitted by soryang on Mon, 08/21/2023 - 11:43pm

Thanks for link

@Pluto's Republic I hadn't read the actual wording of the commitment to consult but I had read Yoon's statement on this and understand it to be the weasel worded legalisms that ostensibly give him and Kishida as well the plausible deniability to say that nothing has changed, and economic issues are still open to negotiation. By saying there are no changes to existing bilateral ties and commitments to the US by each respectively, they could say there is nothing new here, and that it's not a "block" oriented against China. This is all the wiggle room they could get from the US. I'm sure the US will take a maximalist posture, demanding everything it thinks it can get.

I agree with the Global Times article on the economic issues. I think South Korea had an existing positive relationship with ASEAN at least economically. There are issues, but they weren't of the anti-China variety, they were more cultural in nature of a business climate nature. I think Japan is less of a victim in this situation than South Korea, although I'm sure they'd prefer to maintain as much of their existing trade with China as possible. The problem is that I'm sure that the LDP which consistently rules Japan, does want to militarize more, and does want Taiwan securely in its orbit. This really isn't an issue for South Korea. Although they have foolishly placed themselves in the position of being dragged by the US into Taiwan and South China Sea issues with China, that has zero upside for them.

I know Tim Shorrock feels the Japanese people in general are being dragged into this by the US, and that's true. But they are really being dragged into it, by an unresponsive political system that doesn't share their goals. Japan is a one party state ruled by oligarchs.

On the other hand, South Korea is not a one party state and this history making Camp David arrangement won't outlast Yoon. That means the relationship between Japan and South Korea remains unstable. So nothing is locked in, and the US will be very busy after Yoon is gone, trying to maintain alliance discipline. This is why Yoon has to get rid of democratic opposition leader Lee Jae-myung with fabricated criminal charges and investigations. There are four investigations, over a hundred thousand pages of documents, over three hundred warrants, and they have nothing beyond mere accusations leaked to conservative media. Lee obviously wants better relations with China, and considers current issues with Japan completely unresolved.

I don't necessarily agree with the blog authors view of the US being able to dictate terms to South Korea, because of the military "occupation." The US forces in South Korea have been stripped down, and the joint exercises can be stopped again, if South Korea chooses by electing a new government. US forces in South Korea are only a tripwire. That's why they've been floating this idea of Japanese armed forces as playing some offensive role in Korea which is simply absurd in political and historical terms. They are the rear logistics base for USFK, that's it, that's all they'll ever be or they will get nuked by North Korea.

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語必忠信行必正直

Submitted by snoopydawg on Sun, 08/20/2023 - 12:02am

Taking censorship to a whole new level

On the night of 18 August, the “international domain name registry” blocked southfront.org without any warning or explanation. Despite the fact that this organisation has been formally independent since 1998, it is actually controlled by the US Department of Commerce. What they have done is an unprecedented action in the history of modern information society. This is the American way of democracy, freedom of speech and the rule of law.

Dear Friends, the SF Team appeals to you

Through 10 years of its work, SouthFront Team has repeatedly faced blatant acts of censorship from those who seek to take down really independent media and suppress the truth.

However, on August 18, we experienced something never seen before. The domain of our website, southfront.org, was taken down (domain delegation was removed) on the international level without any advance notice and explanation.

Apparently, the removal of SouthFront from YouTube, Facebook, Twitter and other mainstream social media, the blocking of accounts and years-long discrimination campaign against our Team, including summoning our volunteers for interrogation by the FBI, have not achieved results expected by instigators of these censorship acts. Therefore, they have turned to desperate moves like this.

In light of this situation, SouthFront Team wants to thank to our fan club in the White House and among the globalist elites for such high recognition of our work.

We also wish to bring good news to employers of numerous offices of state and state-affiliated entities assigned to fight SouthFront. Your well-paid jobs are secure because we are not going to stop our work even in conditions of such unprecedented pressure. Unlike you, ordinary budget-suckers and turncoats, we do what we do at the bidding of our hearts.

The dogs bark, but the caravans move on.

southfront.press is our official domain now. We are glad to see our old followers and new readers here

Posted by: UWDude | Aug 19 2023 15:44 utc | 18

Ordinary budget suckers and turncoats. Well said. But how cowardly is that? Will they take down MoA like they have SF and google has for the many excellent journalists trying to expose the truth in this world of propaganda? I’m sure that the shitlibs are cheering another round of censorship in this land of the free!

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Which AIPAC/MIC/pharma/bank bought politician are you going to vote for? Don’t be surprised when nothing changes.

Submitted by on the cusp on Sun, 08/20/2023 - 12:25am

I had not heard of SF before.

@snoopydawg If they were taken down, I should go to their new domain and follow them.
Censoring of a site is a good indicator it was truth telling.

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On the night of 18 August, the “international domain name registry” blocked southfront.org without any warning or explanation. Despite the fact that this organisation has been formally independent since 1998, it is actually controlled by the US Department of Commerce. What they have done is an unprecedented action in the history of modern information society. This is the American way of democracy, freedom of speech and the rule of law.

Dear Friends, the SF Team appeals to you

Through 10 years of its work, SouthFront Team has repeatedly faced blatant acts of censorship from those who seek to take down really independent media and suppress the truth.

However, on August 18, we experienced something never seen before. The domain of our website, southfront.org, was taken down (domain delegation was removed) on the international level without any advance notice and explanation.

Apparently, the removal of SouthFront from YouTube, Facebook, Twitter and other mainstream social media, the blocking of accounts and years-long discrimination campaign against our Team, including summoning our volunteers for interrogation by the FBI, have not achieved results expected by instigators of these censorship acts. Therefore, they have turned to desperate moves like this.

In light of this situation, SouthFront Team wants to thank to our fan club in the White House and among the globalist elites for such high recognition of our work.

We also wish to bring good news to employers of numerous offices of state and state-affiliated entities assigned to fight SouthFront. Your well-paid jobs are secure because we are not going to stop our work even in conditions of such unprecedented pressure. Unlike you, ordinary budget-suckers and turncoats, we do what we do at the bidding of our hearts.

The dogs bark, but the caravans move on.

southfront.press is our official domain now. We are glad to see our old followers and new readers here

Posted by: UWDude | Aug 19 2023 15:44 utc | 18

Ordinary budget suckers and turncoats. Well said. But how cowardly is that? Will they take down MoA like they have SF and google has for the many excellent journalists trying to expose the truth in this world of propaganda? I’m sure that the shitlibs are cheering another round of censorship in this land of the free!

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"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981

Submitted by snoopydawg on Sun, 08/20/2023 - 12:45am

Hopefully this causes a Streisand effect

@on the cusp

And once the word gets out more people will go to their new site. I go there a few times a week and I see news on events that other media doesn’t cover. Especially if a story that hasn’t gotten much attention on yet. They are usually on the ball to verify things.

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Which AIPAC/MIC/pharma/bank bought politician are you going to vote for? Don’t be surprised when nothing changes.

Submitted by humphrey on Sun, 08/20/2023 - 12:49am

I visited the site somewhat regularly but it was not high on my

@on the cusp

list of trusted sources. They also had an annoying habit of constantly begging for money. That said I deplore the fact that they were taken down by TPTB.

Submitted by humphrey on Sun, 08/20/2023 - 1:21am

Since I am not there there are 2 versions of the event you can

decide which is more likely close to the truth.

We condemn in the strongest terms yet another horrific missile attack on innocent civilians in Chernihiv. We mourn this tragic loss of life, and our hearts are with the families of victims. The U.S. will always stand by the people of Ukraine. Russia must end its brutal war now. https://t.co/wkM3TMWQGg

— Secretary Antony Blinken (@SecBlinken) August 19, 2023

GEROMAN -- time will tell - --@GeromanAT

"At 17.00 Kiev time. More than 100 people were injured as a result of a rocket attack on an "exhibition" in Chernihiv with a modified Iskander K missile. More than 60 people died.
The NATO air ambulance has been working around the clock, carrying heavy ones to the countries of the alliance.
Destroyed several key specialists - NATO cryptographers from the Baltics - 11 senior NATO officers are missing"
(IL_RUSSO) - unconfirmed
12:31 PM · Aug 19, 2023
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A couple of responses.

You’re either a liar or the world’s most ignorant in-country logistics specialist. It was a drone exhibition; all military personnel were told to wear civilian clothing. It’s a good thing for you that your apparent skill set is not applicable for the exhibition.

— Scott Ritter (@RealScottRitter) August 20, 2023

Submitted by snoopydawg on Sun, 08/20/2023 - 1:52am

Ritter is correct

@humphrey
The theater was being used for a drone exhibit and event. They actually advertised for it and invited people to come sell it. I saw mention of this on MoA. There used to be a law against the government lying to us at this scale, but Obama the shit head revoked it in one of the unconstitutional NDAA. Of course I wasn’t around for the massive propaganda campaign during WW 1. I did read about it and how bad it was for WW2. I posted an article about how FDR provoked Japan into attacking us last week. I didn’t know that we blocked them from using the Panama Canal. And of course he moved the newest ships out of Pearl Harbor and then watched them coming across the sea to attack it. Y’all still certain that 9/11 wasn’t a false flag attack to give the neocons cover for attacking Iran? Rumsfeld actually hoped for another Pearl Harbor.

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Which AIPAC/MIC/pharma/bank bought politician are you going to vote for? Don’t be surprised when nothing changes.