Wednesday Open Thread: It's National Religious Freedom Day in the US

It's Day 16 of the Year 2019 CE, meaning that it's January , 2019


"In God We Trust" Plaque



Religious freedom is something worth celebrating because it is something greatly to be desired, and, boy, do I ever greatly desire it. Today was no doubt deemed an auspicious date for this celebration because on January 16, 1786, Virginia (not yet a state) enacted the Statute for Religious Freedom that had been authored by Thomas Jefferson. This was actually a bit late in the day, because we'd already seen witch trials and executions, people expelled into the wilderness or tortured for wrong thinking and a ton of stuff along those lines. Nonetheless, better late than never, I guess.

At the bottom, that law and the religious liberty clause in the much later First Amendment were really about foreclosing the possibility of religious wars such as had roiled all of Europe for so much of its history. The elitist colonists running the show back then were very well aware of those wars and their repercussions and did not wish to see them repeated here. It pretty much worked except for serious flare-ups against the Mormons, which were still not genocidal like the Albigensian Crusade. They certainly did not ensure religious freedom at the time of their enactment nor for most of the rest of the nation's history. A dive into Con Law history and court decisions quickly reveals how much religion has been and still is part of our laws and regulations.

Blue Laws In my childhood I learned to use "Blue Laws" to all of the religiofascist laws designed to impose Christianist restrictions and behaviors upon all persons. It turns out that, as I later learned, the term really only applies to Sunday laws, of which there have been and still are tons, with the blessings of the US courts. They have forbidden conducting business, working as employment, mowing lawns, buying and selling specific items like alcoholic beverages, groceries, cookware and cars. The courts have relied upon the idea that everybody needs a day off for health and safety reasons as grounds to say that such laws have a secular purpose, piss poor illogic that lost any questionable validity it ever had ages ago. Many of these laws have fallen by the wayside because they became a pain in the ass to too many nominal Christians and never succeeded in forcing non-Christians and non-mainstream Christians to respect the mainstream Christian sabbat, let alone keep it holy. So long after the 5 day work week was widely if not generally adopted and the absolute prohibition on employment and business on Sunday were mostly repealed, there is still a putative secular purpose for certain locales to prohibit the selling of specific items.Riiiiight. These laws were never anything other than an attempt to force all residents of this country to abide by the mainstream Christian Sabbath and refrain from desecrating it with secular activities whether they liked it or not.

I mentioned my youthful misunderstanding assigning the term "blue laws" to the whole gamut of religion based prohibitions, proscriptions and mandates. As you might guess from the fact that the courts have ruled as they did with respect to Sunday laws, they have not challenged any of these on the basis of religious freedom and religious liberty but have ducked the issue entirely with rare exceptions even though the wellspring from which they flowed is clearly religious. To some extent it is a characteristic of at least some religions to proselytize and be dominionist. The US seems to have attracted colonists and later immigrants who were overly zealous in this regard, determined that all should follow the behavioral rules and mores that they believed their god mandated. In addition, a great number were particularly twisted up over human sexuality. This led to clusters of laws derived from their respective sects' beliefs on what was forbidden by their god's decrees as well as what was mandated by them.

* Laws against "Adultery" and cohabitation outside of wedlock abounded, including such things as unmarried adults sharing a hotel room.
* There were laws against "Sodomy", which had numerous definitions, and some even outlawed some consensual behaviors between married heterosexual couples within the confines of their own bedrooms.
* Parallel and in addition to those were tons of laws prohibiting "Unnatural Acts", which also often included acts between consenting married couples.
* There were local, and eventually national laws against Plural Marriage, as distinguished from Bigamy, both polygamy and polygyny, which, no matter what one thinks of them, need not be abusive and are not logically per se abusive.
* All forms of Birth Control have been restricted at times as to who might obtain it, how, when and where and whether a permit was required. Today's laws still allow pharmacists to withhold birth control in some places based solely upon their personal religious beliefs.
* Need I really mention laws against Abortion?
* There was the outlawing of homosexuality and even when and where that was relaxed or repealed, homosexuals were accorded a very limited set of "inalienable rights" and subjected to unequal treatment under the law including being persecuted
* There's the continuing refusal to acknowledge the existence or even the possibility of transgender and intersex persons because "god does not make mistakes. They are incessantly persecuted with shit like refusal to issue papers and documents, bathroom bills, insistence that gender be defined by primary sexual characteristics at birth and the like.
* With respect to all GLBTQ persons, the police and other John law types are extremely lax to investigate or even take cognizance of crimes against them, and are especially lax in classifying violent attacks on them as hate crimes. This has to at least somewhat abet the fact that they are among the top victims, right after our Indian brothers and sisters.

All of those and more are drawn from puritanical forms of Christians religions, lack any legitimate public purpose and baselessly overrule and override the rights of people to engage in various acts and practices derived from the ownership by each person of their own bodies. There is and never has been any legitimate justification for any of those laws, and they were vast in number and extent in every conceivable jurisdiction. The are outright violations of each of our individual personhood all because some religiofascists want to ram their religious beliefs and practices down everybody's throats.

Possibly less obvious are the multitudes of laws prohibiting Swearing & Cursing. The fact that these have been stretched to include any and all "bad words" somewhat confuses the issue, but their origins are religious all the same. god, in various manifestations, cursed many beings and things and it is his sole prerogative, but, nonetheless, the evil one also has that power and can confer it to his minions such as witches and hence it is as evil as they are. Swearing, the taking of Oaths, is correctly done in the name of god, which shall not be taken in vain and hence idle swearing goes against god's will. Blasphemy, of pretty obvious religious origin, and Profanity also clearly a religious peeve have also at times been outlawed here and there.

This opens the door to the bluenoses' attempts to censor damn near anything and everything that a sufficiently twisted mind can deem indirectly and remotely objectionable to god and the uber-godly, the prohibition of Obscenity. Vast quantities of linguistic and legalistic gyrations have been spewed across many volumes of writings to define, clarify and elucidate this evil or evils where our learned judiciary has deemed may be indeed outlawed, even though they don't have any fucking clue what the fuck it means. Sober, solemn learned jurists have been reduced to such cretinous drivel as "I know it when I see it" (Supreme Court Justice Potter Stewart in Jacobellis v. Ohio.) None the less, the godly among us will ever strive to impose their twisted narrow-minded vision of what is permissible for some to write, paint, sculpt, or say and others to read, see or hear.

Skin, from ankles and arms to shoulders, knees and thighs or even OMG, Nudity This goes back to the whole sex is dirty, hence sexual parts, etc, but also falls down here because of the naked body being obscene. As the great jurist Lenny Bruce once said: If something about the human body disgusts you, the fault lies with the manufacturer.

Clearly religious in origin, the case law in this cluster of illegitimate laws focuses exclusively on freedom of speech instead of the fact that there in no secular justification for any of this shit any more than there is for any of the first glob dealt with above.

There have been a lot of laws prohibiting atheists from running for or taking office. The supremes said that they don't fly, but a lot of places kept them on the books anyway, as a deterrent. If you run and win then you need to petition for a writ of mandamus, and appeal any adverse decision, etc.

School Prayer has been slapped down numerous times, but they keep working to bring it back and to find ways around the law.

Why not, legislative sessions and many government meetings of all kinds, official business and hearings that people often really have to attend open with a prayer, and it's all cool and perfectly legal, just as legal as the creche on the courthouse lawn.

The National Day of Prayer is an annual day of observance held on the first Thursday of May, designated by the United States Congress, when people are asked "to turn to God in prayer and meditation". Each year since its inception, the president has signed a proclamation, encouraging all Americans to pray on this day. (from Wikipedia)

They added "under God" to the Pledge of Allegiance, and in many places forced kids to recite it in school until the Supremes ruled that kids could refuse to participate. They did so only because a particular Christian sect claimed that it violated some specific rules of their faith.

The same President officially made "In God We Trust the official motto of the country and of our currency and coinage
When I was a kid, the christofascists were always insisting that we only have freedom OF religion and not freedom FROM religion, and clearly they are right, because all levels of government constantly spew and display religion, its trappings and artifacts.

There has been open outright war on Indian religions, with conversion of the survivors of the physical genocide committed against them subject to concerted attempts at cultural genocide which continue to this day.

It's not like this is ancient history. This kind of shit is ongoing and part of our cultural milieu. When they had a draft, they provided for conscientious objectors, but insisted that their objections be based on religion, but not philosophy, ethics or morals. They further insisted that Buddhists and Taoists couldn't qualify, because a religion had to involve worshipping a god, though eventually the courts ruled that they had to accept Buddhism as a religion, godless though it was. No, this isn't a secular nation, it never was, and we don't have real freedom of religion, and never have. When you can't go to a zoning hearing regarding your own neighborhood without a fucking revival meeting breaking out, it is a mockery to speak of religious freedom. Worse yet, the government is now openly Partnered with religion.

William Ronald Jefferson Reagan Clinton, in addition to passing a law intended to permit religious groups to overrule and run roughshod over things like zoning and parking ordinances and, generally, any law which might apply to everybody else that in any way inconvenienced them, also created the Faith Based Initiative. It was embedded in his welfare reform, drug treatment, and job training initiatives. The so-called Charitable Choice provisions of his so-called Welfare Reform allowed for the direct financial support of religious institutions by the Federal Government and by State Governments in receipt of "block grants". Money earmarked for sex education could be instead given to religiofascists to teach abstinence only. Monies for nutritional support programs could be handed over to Churches ostensibly in order to fund bread lines, etc. A big fan of these diversions of funds, Governor George Warmonger Bush, took it a step further, and Al Gore's support of the idea made it ostensibly bipartisan. Bush expanded the reach and scope and made it clear that religious groups serving as the conduits or misusers of federal funds needn't in any way tone down their religious trappings, character, mission or agenda. Next up, President Obama created The White House Office of Faith-Based and Neighborhood Partnerships which had a primary mission of working with the administration to fund the maximum number of such religious groups to the maximum extent possible with respect to the maximum conceivable possible types of services. In fact, Faith-Based Partnership ombudsmen were inserted within some line agencies with a directive to "help" those agencies find the most possible ways to avail themselves of the services of religious functionaries and organizations. So now, the actual peons who do the actual work must look out not only for ignorant misguided bosses, but also meddlesome priests. It's gone from "in god we trust" to "god's minions we have to trust, or else hide from".

So yeah, religious freedom, whoopie, let us jump and shout, or maybe, better yet, pray. Oh Eris, goddess supreme, is this your doing? Congrats and hail discord!

Ah yes, and it all goes back to Virginia, of all places. Sweet Virginia

Image is: "In God We Trust" Plaque
Placed 1961
Two identical bronzes:
(1) Longworth House Office Building, main lobby, east wall.
(2) Dirksen Office Building, southwest entrance, west wall.

-- Photo Credit goes to "Architect of the Capitol"

Its an open thread so have at it. The floor is yours
.

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Raggedy Ann's picture

Religious freedom is propaganda - they (the Christians) - don't really mean actual "religious freedom." I believe they mean freedom from having to recognize and be civil towards any other religion. Of course, I'm stereotyping, and lumping them all into one basket - something I deplore when my spouse does it - but when it comes to religion, it is all evil to me - nothing more than a mechanism to control. I choose to be free from religion!

Yikes - drag me away from this subject!!!

Have a beautiful, religious-free day, folks! Pleasantry

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"The “jumpers” reminded us that one day we will all face only one choice and that is how we will die, not how we will live." Chris Hedges on 9/11

enhydra lutris's picture

@Raggedy Ann
beaucoups mucho. This thing we lack and never have had is one of the many reasons that we are the shining city upon the hill, or some shit like that. Exceptional, as they say. I learned just the other day that there are still adultery and anti-cohabitation statutes in many places in the US. Ah well, it's all for our own good, they say. Fuck 'em.

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That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

detroitmechworks's picture

Blasphemy Laws which are surprisingly popular these days need to be challenged. (If you doubt me on this one, I'd remind you that many people now fully endorse the statement "Freedom of speech does not mean freedom from the consequences of your speech.")

Mandatory Helicopter Parenting Laws. (From the "Cult of the Child" stated by Spock, et al. The ones that ensured that if a child under 14 was alone it warranted police attention.)

Thoughtcrime. (When they start adding time to sentences based on motivation, that's effectively criminalizing thoughts.)

The Failure to Respect Authority Laws. (No Uniform deserves respect for itself. Most Police and Military Uniforms are tarnished beyond all reason. A pig should not be able to put you in jail for treating him like he treats you.)

Just off the top of my head. And Eris has been needling me to get back to writing, and the rest of the muses are screaming at me too. Probably should reread that "Story Bible" I wrote here... Problem is that I recently read an RPG book that had a VERY similar delineation of the post-industrial future, so I may want to rethink some of it. (Fortunately, they mostly ignored the PNW, so I'm not ripping off THAT part. Smile )

[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cXOAcuNhFS4]

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I do not pretend I know what I do not know.

enhydra lutris's picture

@detroitmechworks
Thanks also for the video. The whole concept of a Blasphemy law is mind boggling and yet they are proliferating, taking us straight back to the dark ages when they were the rule rather than the exception.

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That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

NCTim's picture

It will be after a trip to the garage. Coffee, cinnamon muffin and W&B!

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The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. If you try it, you will be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself. - Friedrich Nietzsche -

enhydra lutris's picture

@NCTim
after a 4:42 wake-up by a 3.7 half-way up to Berkeley. Heard it coming too. I have to try to keep an eye out for those and determine if the adio is based on size, or the particular fault line. This one was on the Hayward fault, running about 2 miles due west of mi casa.

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That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

NCTim's picture

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The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. If you try it, you will be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself. - Friedrich Nietzsche -

NCTim's picture

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The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. If you try it, you will be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself. - Friedrich Nietzsche -

NCTim's picture

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The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. If you try it, you will be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself. - Friedrich Nietzsche -

psyche.

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Ya got to be a Spirit, cain't be no Ghost. . .

Explain Bldg #7. . . still waiting. . .

If you’ve ever wondered whether you would have complied in 1930’s Germany,
Now you know. . .
sign at protest march

enhydra lutris's picture

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That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

to the lord of the rings and things that go round, like merry
pass the lord and praise the ammunition
forever without bad endings
good food and good meet, good god let's eat
I'm not talking about hate, I'm talking about 8
dinner at 8. Let's feast our souls on the promised band.

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enhydra lutris's picture

@QMS
ammunition indeed, thanks for that. Fealty is, I suspect, derived somehow from Feelthy. Have a great one.

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That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

@enhydra lutris
You are dealing with the quakers
It may be a sign from the rock gods
unhappy with our faults

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enhydra lutris's picture

@QMS

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That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

Azazello's picture

Mexican Bombshell - El Chapo claims he paid a $100 million bribe to former Presidente Enrique Peña Nieto. I believe it.

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We wanted decent healthcare, a living wage and free college.
The Democrats gave us Biden and war instead.

enhydra lutris's picture

@Azazello
Thanks for the news.

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That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

divineorder's picture

War and Peace

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A truth of the nuclear age/climate change: we can no longer have endless war and survive on this planet. Oh sh*t.

enhydra lutris's picture

@divineorder war and peace report (with apologies to Amy Goodman)

Have a great one.

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That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

But the bishop said a search of the records indicated about 25 priests were accused of abusing about 100 children during their service to the diocese from its founding in 1962 to the present. In the church newspaper, Vasa called it “a shocking number” that, in part, drove him to make the list public.

He noted that four priests — Gary Timmons, Don Kimball, Austin Peter Keegan and Francisco Xavier Ochoa — were responsible for 63 known victims. Kimball and Ochoa are deceased.

“My primary goal in releasing the names of accused priests and deacons who served in Santa Rosa in this public fashion is to give to all the victims of clerical sexual abuse the assurance that they have been heard and that the Church is very much concerned for their well-being and healing,” Vasa wrote.

I'm with RA, "Yikes - drag me away from this subject!!!" For reasons.
Before I drag away, Catholic Charities is the institution that provides poverty numbers to the state here in good ole California. Services contracts galore:
http://catholiccharitiesca.org/resources/poverty-data/

Catholic Charities of California updates poverty data by county in California twice a year and the poverty impact statement annually.

So, if you ever read about homeless people who don't want to "come in off the street", please have some compassion about who provides what service, and where. Who provides oversight to religious charities? omg NOBODY, practically speaking. The system itself is abusive, not just sexually. Homelessness is a corrupt industry unto itself now, I think. It's a perfect permanent fixture of oppression on the economy. Absolute power corrupts absolutely.

I was never baptized, thank God. heh But all others on this branch of family were Catholic, Irish Catholic. Oh man, just found an old LP on the tube, downloading now. Start at 38m0s, the end. Irreverent relief.
DAVID PEEL AND THE LOWER EASTSIDE - The Pope Smokes Dope LP 72
12 - The Pope Smokes Dope

happy wednesday
cha cha cha

peace

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enhydra lutris's picture

@eyo
surprising, just yet another confirmation of what we all know and the numbers are certain to be low since the percentage of victims to who report is pretty low.

I was unaware that Catholic Charities is the source of our poverty data. That cannot be a good thing. And yes, I do get your point about shelter providers and operators, thanks for bringing it up.

Have a good one.

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That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

@enhydra lutris thanks, where are today's peace bards? I don't follow popular culture. There's a lot of John in that old LP from '72, when Washington Square in the Village was lively, and revolting. right on What's it like now, I wonder? east coast vibe
---
religious sense; spectacular acts of bloodshed all around

The latest carnage demonstrated al-Shabab's continued ability to carry out spectacular acts of bloodshed despite a dramatic increase in U.S. airstrikes against it under President Donald Trump.

holy war tax dollars at work
Kenya says all gunmen killed in hotel attack; 14 victims

"I am a Muslim and I am Somali, I am Kenyan living here, and in that way I can assure you if al-Shabab found me today they call us what they call 'Mortad' (apostates), that is, someone who works against them and they wouldn't differentiate me from yourself," said Mohamed Yasin Jama, a friend of two colleagues killed.

holy war stinks of CIA. PU

Al-Shabab has vowed retribution against Kenya for sending troops to Somalia to fight it since 2011. Tuesday's violence came three years to the day after al-Shabab extremists attacked a Kenyan military base in Somalia, killing scores of people.

holy war blowback sucks infinitum
makes sense

peace

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enhydra lutris's picture

I want?

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That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

@enhydra lutris yeah, tha vid bugged me enough to go looking to see if I am remembering the past wrong, or what?:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_musicians_who_play_left-handed
Brian and Keith on that list? Nope. When I saw them at the Cow Palace (not Brian), there was a giant inflatable penis onstage...? Then they rocked Candlestick with the giant tongue tour, the sound bounced everywhere and so did Mick. lol omg he can't dance, but he keeps trying, right on. Me too. Here they are facing the other way, go Mick go. cheers
ROLLING STONES - Carol - 1964

I still think of The Faces when I see Ronny Wood, because I'm old and I saw them too. Rod Stewart at Spartan Stadium, and the first time I ever reached 135mph inside a car on the 101.

peace

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enhydra lutris's picture

@eyo
so I don't really make that connection, especially after all this time and the fact that he also played with the Byrds and Jeff Beck, and odd cameos with people like Bo Diddley, etc.

135 on 101 - impressive. Not sure it would be possible today, at least during daytime.

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That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

Lookout's picture

there's lots of empty churches and membership is falling. Perhaps there is hope...
I got nothing against God(s) nor Goddess, but religion is a problem. I found this analysis interesting...
"The 2016 annual meeting for the Organization of American Historians (OAH) will feature a session focusing upon the provocative book One Nation Under God by Princeton history professor Keven M. Kruse. In One Nation Under God, Kruse argues that the idea of the United States as a Christian nation does not find its origins with the founding of the United States or the writing of the Constitution. Rather, the notion of America as specifically consecrated by God to be a beacon for liberty was the work of corporate and religious figures opposed to New Deal statism and interference with free enterprise."
https://historynewsnetwork.org/article/162368

There are a number of interviews with Kruse bout his hypothesis.
http://kevinmkruse.com/interviews/

Here's some interesting US stats...

Every year, 2.7 million christian church members fall into inactivity.

From 1990 to 2000, the combined membership of all Protestant denominations in the USA declined by almost 5 million members (9.5 percent), while the US population increased by 24 million (11 percent).

At the turn of the last century (1900), there was a ratio of 27 churches per 10,000 people, as compared to the close of this century (2000) where we have 11 churches per 10,000 people in America!

The United States now ranks third (3rd) following China and India in the number of people who are not professing Christians.

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“Until justice rolls down like water and righteousness like a mighty stream.”

enhydra lutris's picture

@Lookout
how much that is tied to the seemingly accelerated work being done attempting to reassert religion in government, the schools, workplace and public square.

Have a good one

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That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

divineorder's picture

@Lookout but so many offices still dedicated to the few faithful remaining.

Found this in duckduckgo search.

https://www.commerce.gov/bureaus-and-offices/os/faith-based-and-neighbor.......

PHONE
(202) 482-3235
Center for Faith-Based and Neighborhood Partnerships

Welcome to the Department of Commerce's Center for Faith and Opportunity Partnerships, one of the 13 federal agency offices under the White House Office of Faith and Opportunity Partnerships . We work to promote impactful partnerships between businesses and community- and faith-based organizations focused on job creation and economic growth.

Don't bother calling all ye faithful, warning on website says they are closed during shutdown.

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A truth of the nuclear age/climate change: we can no longer have endless war and survive on this planet. Oh sh*t.

enhydra lutris's picture

@divineorder

13 federal agency offices under the White House Office of Faith and Opportunity Partnerships

Thanks, Obama.

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That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

enhydra lutris's picture

@divineorder @divineorder

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That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

He has sounded forth the trumpet that shall never call retreat;
He is sifting out the hearts of men before His judgment-seat;
Oh, be swift, my soul, to answer Him! Be jubilant, my feet!
Our God is marching on.

and

He is coming like the glory of the morning on the wave,
He is Wisdom to the mighty, He is Succour to the brave,
So the world shall be His footstool, and the soul of Time His slave,
Our God is marching on.

god, guts and glory (and chevy pick-ups)

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enhydra lutris's picture

@QMS
a war god, and the Christians being an aberrant renegade sect preaching victory in the afterlife once the Romans beat the old dude up, it was natural for them to take up the cudgels again once they became the official religion of Rome. Onward xtian soldiers, and all that.

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That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

TheOtherMaven's picture

@enhydra lutris

William S. Gilbert should have kept him busier composing operettas. Biggrin

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There is no justice. There can be no peace.

enhydra lutris's picture

@TheOtherMaven
on his hands.

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That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

CS in AZ's picture

I’m off to work soon, but I’ll be back later to finish reading in detail. Great topic.

Just wanted to say thanks, and good morning everyone.

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enhydra lutris's picture

@CS in AZ

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That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

magiamma's picture

et al. groovy essay. so god ,the patriarch, is an oligarch too? where is mother god? seems like, besides subjugating all people, 'religion' does a good job of subjugating women. no?

The Gnostic poem "Thunder, Perfect Mind" says,

I am the first and the last. I am the whore and the holy one.

I am the wife and the virgin and the mother and the daughter.

I am she whose wedding is great and I have not taken a husband.

Lol

so, how was the wind up your way? here we had a 50mph steady. not much left to drop though. more wind today. btw, how do you like windy? cool to be able to 'see' the wind at all heights. have a very groovy day sir...

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Stop Climate Change Silence - Start the Conversation

Hot Air Website, Twitter, Facebook

enhydra lutris's picture

@magiamma
warmonger and misogynist thrown in for good measure. The mother god(s) all got pushed out, exiled, closeted and caged and maybe a little bit subsumed within the blessed virgin or somesuch. Astarte, Isis, and the whole greco-roman goddess pantheon have been banished from western consciousness. The world is poorer for it.

Wonderful poem, thanks.

It's been pretty windy, but on and off, now on. Rain likewise. This evening is gupposed to get grim, with flood warnings, even, though not in my immediate neighborhood. Seeing the wind at various altitudes is fun, but I've only checked it out a bit. I'm happy to just be able to toggle between wind, rain and temp.

Have a groovy day yourself.

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That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

enhydra lutris's picture

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That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

mhagle's picture

in the middle of the night.

And decided I needed to start reading his book "American Fascists: The Christian Right and the War on America." I bought it last year.

As a journalist, he really researches his topics. Attended many mega-churches, went to retreats, one white nationalist retreat and one with Tim LaHaye, the "Left Behind" author. He says he does not believe in a personal god.

Jimmy Dore interview with Chris Hedges. Mostly about his most recent book, but they discuss the earlier book as well.
[video:https://youtu.be/nOZ7NSuZp6s]

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Marilyn

"Make dirt, not war." eyo

enhydra lutris's picture

@mhagle
I think I watched that a while back.

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That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

snoopydawg's picture

back then. They played by the blue rules of no business on Sunday including eating out, going to the store or movies etc because they would be making someone else work.

Sad day when they decided not to follow that rule any more.

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Which AIPAC/MIC/pharma/bank bought politician are you going to vote for? Don’t be surprised when nothing changes.

enhydra lutris's picture

@snoopydawg
impose by not imposing a restriction - dastardly.

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That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --