U.S. shoots down Syrian jet

Submitted by gjohnsit on Sun, 06/18/2017 - 7:24pm

On the same day that Shia militias from both Syria and Iraq met at the border for the first time in years, and Iran made a show of force, the U.S. escalated our push for regime change in Syria.

A U.S. strike aircraft shot down a Syrian government fighter jet Sunday shortly after the Syrians bombed U.S.-backed fighters in northern Syria, the Pentagon said in a statement.
The Pentagon said the downing of the aircraft came hours after Syrian loyalist forces attacked U.S.-backed fighters, known as the Syrian Democratic Forces, in the village of Ja’Din, southwest of Raqqa. The rare attack was the first time a U.S. jet has shot down a manned hostile aircraft in more than a decade, and signaled the United States’ sharply intensifying role in Syria’s war.
The incident is the fourth time within a month that the U.S. military has attacked pro-Syrian government forces.
A statement distributed by the Syrian military said that the aircraft’s lone pilot was killed in the attack and that the jet was carrying out a mission against the Islamic State.

As I've written repeatedly, a vocal faction in the White House wants regime change in Syria.
Shooting down jets is not something that can be ignored. There will be a response.

BREAKING: Heavy clashes between #SDF and #Assad forces around Rasafa town S #Tabqa. #R24

— Raqqa24 (@24Raqqa) June 18, 2017

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Comments

Submitted by on the cusp on Sun, 06/18/2017 - 7:41pm

This is all so stupid and fucking cruel.

Can Mattis et. al, top the cruelty of yore of Dracula? Well, YES.

—

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981

Submitted by snoopydawg on Sun, 06/18/2017 - 8:10pm

This is such a ridiculous statement

The rare attack was the first time a U.S. jet has shot down a manned hostile aircraft in more than a decade, and signaled the United States’ sharply intensifying role in Syria’s war.

The Syrian jet was flying in its own country defending its government, so how can it be labeled hostile?

Any idea how much longer Russia is going to sit back and watch as the US shoots down Syrian jets and kills Syrian troops?
Or is this the plan to get Russia to come to the aid of their allies and that will be an excuse for war with Russia?

—

Which AIPAC/MIC/pharma/bank bought politician are you going to vote for? Don’t be surprised when nothing changes.

Submitted by gjohnsit on Sun, 06/18/2017 - 8:17pm

The least surprising news

Lebanon redux

Israel has been secretly providing aid to Syrian rebels groups in the Golan Heights for years, the Wall Street Journal reported on Sunday night.
According to the Journal, Israel has offered rebel groups medical supplies, food, funding and even hard cash in order to safeguard the country's border from the ever-deepening crisis taking place in Israel's northern neighbor Syria, which is suffering from the consequences of the bloody and grueling civil war raging in the country since 2011.

Submitted by snoopydawg on Sun, 06/18/2017 - 8:50pm

Seriously, I would like to know the answer to this

Or is this the plan to get Russia to come to the aid of their allies and that will be an excuse for war with Russia?

Anyone's thoughts on this.

—

Which AIPAC/MIC/pharma/bank bought politician are you going to vote for? Don’t be surprised when nothing changes.

Submitted by Pricknick on Sun, 06/18/2017 - 9:11pm

Neocons

@snoopydawg
have dreams.

—

Regardless of the path in life I chose, I realize it's always forward, never straight.

Submitted by gjohnsit on Sun, 06/18/2017 - 9:16pm

I don't think Russia is the target

@snoopydawg
I think Iran is the target.
Which is problematic is its own ways.

Even the Qatar/KSA thing is about Iran. Yemen is about Iran. And now Syria is about Iran.

This is all left over from Iran being the only entity that put it all on the line to save Baghdad and Damascus from ISIS.

Submitted by snoopydawg on Sun, 06/18/2017 - 9:47pm

Thanks gjohnsit

@gjohnsit
What do you think would happen if Russia did use its jets to defend the Syrian army?
The whole Middle East is a tinder box and it's only going to take one match to set it off.

Can you explain why the Qatar/KSA is a way to get to Iran?

—

Which AIPAC/MIC/pharma/bank bought politician are you going to vote for? Don’t be surprised when nothing changes.

Submitted by gjohnsit on Sun, 06/18/2017 - 9:50pm

I don't want to think about that

@snoopydawg
Personally I think Putin will avoid confronting us directly.
He can do that because he's only risking one military base.
He'd rather arm the people fighting us.

Iran, OTOH, can't back down. They have everything to lose.
They can't walk away from five years of investment. They'll fight us.

Submitted by dervish on Sun, 06/18/2017 - 10:09pm

You'll notice how this broke in the (Imperial) news,

@gjohnsit At first it was announced that a Syrian fighter was downed by a US backed militia with MANPADS, then a while later, it was announced that we shot him down with one of our jets. In the intervening hours, they were probably feeling out Russia's reaction, and when Russia likely shrugged, they went ahead and took credit for it. This is crazy brinksmanship.

Iran hit Deir Ezzor with ballistic missiles today too, likely just to remind KSA that all of their cities are within range.

What kind of US backed militias are set up near Raqqa? Is the SDF the moderate Daesh? We're supposed to believe that we're there fighting Daesh, but when the Syrians bomb Daesh, we shoot them down, because we're supporting the guys they're bombing?

That's not a foreign policy, that's a Charlie Foxtrot pulled out of the ass of a duck.

—

"Obama promised transparency, but Assange is the one who brought it."

Submitted by snoopydawg on Sun, 06/18/2017 - 11:13pm

LOL

@dervish

That's not a foreign policy, that's a Charlie Foxtrot pulled out of the ass of a duck.

—

Which AIPAC/MIC/pharma/bank bought politician are you going to vote for? Don’t be surprised when nothing changes.

Submitted by Linda Wood on Mon, 06/19/2017 - 9:52am

Your question is

@dervish
as old as this war.

What kind of US backed militias are set up near Raqqa? Is the SDF the moderate Daesh? We're supposed to believe that we're there fighting Daesh, but when the Syrians bomb Daesh, we shoot them down, because we're supporting the guys they're bombing?

The Bait and Switch of this conflict was John McCain screaming we need to fund moderates to fight ISIS, while KSA and the CIA were supplying ISIS, and then our moderates were absorbed by Al Nusra, which was Al Qaeda.

Meanwhile the American military was there to fight ISIS and Al Qaeda by helping the Kurdish forces, who do most of the fighting, and they are the SDF, which is the force making progress against ISIS, Daesh, in Raqqa.

Assad's forces do not want the SDF to control Raqqa, is my guess, as they are American-backed. Essentially, the American military is in a war against the CIA in Syria.

Submitted by dervish on Sun, 06/18/2017 - 10:27pm

Qatar/KSA

@snoopydawg There's a lot to it, but in a nutshell, the KSA is an absolute monarchy in the US/Israeli pocket. Traditionally, Qatar has been a sock-puppet of KSA, but that changed when Prince Hamad came to power in a soft coup in 1995. He instituted civil reforms, including city elections and greater personal and press freedoms. It's still no western democracy, but it's a lot freer than KSA, or even UAE. Hamad also sponsored al Jazeera. Qatar started to have a more independent foreign policy and press, and it said embarrassing things about the neighbors when they tortured and killed their people.

Prince Tamim came to power in 2013 (dad's still alive, just retired), and continued what his father started. Qatar went along with the KSA/USA adventures in Syria and elsewhere, sponsored terrorists, etc, along with the rest of them, but it appears that Tamim has finally soured on that, realizing that his pipeline dreams aren't ever going to happen, and that his country is in grave danger should war start with Iran. A war with Iran isn't in Qatar's best interests, and they no longer believe Israel when they tell them it is.

Qatar isn't "friendly" with Iran, but it isn't unfriendly either. KSA is furious that Qatar has any relations with Iran at all, even partial ones. By forcing Tamim to either get in line, or step down, KSA is getting one over on Iran, and removing an obstacle to war.

If Tamim stays in power, war with Iran can still happen, but it will be far more difficult, and few nations aside from maybe Bahrain, would follow the KSA into that morass.

—

"Obama promised transparency, but Assange is the one who brought it."

Submitted by Alligator Ed on Sun, 06/18/2017 - 11:07pm

Nice analysis

@dervish Leave it to our Deep State to continually FU everybody they don't like and provoke an armed. more overt confrontation in the ME. China is now having joint naval exercises with Iran in the Persian Gulf. That means one thing very clearly. Both Russia and China are committing to side with Iran.

Trump may be mastering political infighting at home (though the jury is still out), but he is a complete boob when dealing with foreign policy. He pledged to destroy ISIS, but is now aiding them by preventing Syria and Russia to continue crushing them. Other than benefiting the MIC, how does this make sense?

Submitted by dervish on Sun, 06/18/2017 - 11:57pm

I was a little surprised at the Chinese exercises

@Alligator Ed CB had some good stuff up about BRI and Chinese expansion of trade, influence and power.

I don't know if you caught the Oliver Stone/Putin interviews, but Putin pointed out that US Presidents may change, but the foreign policy always stays the same. First with Obama, and now with Trump, we see candidates say one thing, then when elected, they morph into the status quo. There isn't a dime's worth of difference between Bush's, Obama's or now Trump's foreign policy.

I'd bet that on January 20th, every four years, Langley sends a man to the WH to tell the new President what his opinions and policies are.

—

"Obama promised transparency, but Assange is the one who brought it."

Submitted by Pluto's Republic on Mon, 06/19/2017 - 1:55am

Quite so on Qatar.

@dervish

I thought they could play the Sunni card, but I see the combined forces of Shiite extermination are a determined monolith. Qatar must be Yemenized without further delay to achieve the neocon-Israeli goal in the region and the world beyond.

There is no other choice now that we have declared war on Syria today.

(Of course, most Americans already thought we were at war with Syria. They even think we are at war with Afghanistan. These are the fools who dominate the vote count in US elections.)

—

____________________

The political system is what it is because the People are who they are. — Plato

Submitted by dervish on Sun, 06/18/2017 - 11:34pm

We're incinerating people with Willie Pete

@Pluto's Republic but it's all in the cause of freedumb. You wouldn't be able to type on this blog if we didn't keep slaughtering innocents all over the world, or something.

—

"Obama promised transparency, but Assange is the one who brought it."

Submitted by Pluto's Republic on Mon, 06/19/2017 - 1:56am

Drink!

@dervish

—

____________________

The political system is what it is because the People are who they are. — Plato

Submitted by irishking on Mon, 06/19/2017 - 6:04am

you could have been a schoolbook.

@dervish

one of the virtues of this place.

"you can learn stuff here."

Submitted by ghotiphaze on Sun, 06/18/2017 - 9:43pm

It's all about oil.

@gjohnsit Armored vehicles getting two gallons to the mile, planes burning a hundred gallons an hour, and ships getting a hundred gallons to the mile. As long as they keep dropping bombs a half world away the oil industry makes out great.
(And you thought this was going to be because there's oil there. I think oil there is either a handy excuse or candy sprinkles on the whip cream.)

—

There is no such thing as TMI. It can always be held in reserve for extortion.

Submitted by Timmethy2.0 on Mon, 06/19/2017 - 11:28am

Good luck getting support from the American people

@gjohnsit

I don't think that's going to happen, which would not be good if a war with Iran is provoked. Is the MIC going to pay for a mercenary army? A mercenary army against a people defending their beloved home isn't going to work either. What mentally and morally weak people we have in charge.

—

Beware the bullshit factories.

Submitted by gustogirl on Mon, 06/19/2017 - 1:08am

We should check to see

@snoopydawg
how Israel feels about this.

Their border is too close for comfort, IMO.

Submitted by CB on Mon, 06/19/2017 - 1:57am

I can guarantee that when it comes to anything the US

@gustogirl
does in the ME, they have a ringside seat and are the very first to be consulted. The killing of Arabs of any stripe is A-OK in their books.

Submitted by dervish on Mon, 06/19/2017 - 8:43am

They're lined up on the Lebanese border

@gustogirl and supporting takfiri militias from the Golan, They're ready to go.

I think they just want chaos and disorder.

—

"Obama promised transparency, but Assange is the one who brought it."

Submitted by CB on Mon, 06/19/2017 - 10:00am

The Israeli's are up to their kippah's

@gustogirl

Wall Street Journal: Israel Caught Red-handed Aiding al-Qaeda in Syria

21st Century Wire says…

What US and European media have been slow to figure out (or ignore), is how Israel is up to its neck in fueling the long dirty war next door in Syria.

Let’s be clear – once again Israel has been caught red-handed providing aid and comfort to Islamic militant terrorists in Syria, as reported by the Wall Street Journal (see full report below). Understand that this flies in the face of all of Benjamin ‘Bibi’ Netanyahu and the US Republican Party’s lyrical proclamations and hollow platitudes about how Israel is ‘leading the fight against terror’ in the region.

This is not the first time that we’ve reported on Israel’s direct intervention in Syria on behalf of al Qaeda, al Nusra and ISIS. Previous reports in February 2015, and in January 2015, in December 2014, and also in October 2014, all clearly demonstrate a pattern of Israel providing various levels of support to the different western and GCC-backed terrorist groups attempting to break-up the nation of Syria and overthrow Bashar al Assad’s government in Damascus.

Submitted by Pricknick on Sun, 06/18/2017 - 9:10pm

And then finally we have........

MrWebster
Jun 18 · 06:05:50 PM
Finally. Trump is wising up and following Clinton on Syrian policy where she wanted direct attacks on the Syrian army

You can't fix stupid.
You also can't get chocolate milk from a brown cow.

—

Regardless of the path in life I chose, I realize it's always forward, never straight.

Submitted by dervish on Sun, 06/18/2017 - 10:34pm

The chocolate comes out the back,

@Pricknick or was that Shinola? They always confuse those two.

—

"Obama promised transparency, but Assange is the one who brought it."

Submitted by LoneStarMike on Mon, 06/19/2017 - 12:51am

Trump wising up and following Clinton on Syrian Policy?

@Pricknick

I thought that was a major reason a lot of people voted against Hillary.

Sigh . . . Hasn't the U.S. had enough wargasms already?

So now we have to worry about Trump, too?

Submitted by Tall Bald and Ugly on Sun, 06/18/2017 - 9:19pm

Just. Fucking. Wow.

Everyday I feel more like Slim Pickins character in Dr. Stranglove riding the bomb. I can see it happening so I KNOW other people see it and yet. . .?
Now, more than ever

Stop These Fucking Wars!

peace

—

Ya got to be a Spirit, cain't be no Ghost. . .

Explain Bldg #7. . . still waiting. . .

If you’ve ever wondered whether you would have complied in 1930’s Germany,
Now you know. . .
sign at protest march

Submitted by gjohnsit on Sun, 06/18/2017 - 9:45pm

Do other people see it?

@Tall Bald and Ugly
If your blog was still the GOS, what are the chances that anyone is writing about this?
And if they are, which spin do you think they will use?

Submitted by dervish on Sun, 06/18/2017 - 10:49pm

It's usually silence

@gjohnsit regarding foreign policy (except Russia).

It's Russia-gate, Trump's imminent impeachment, and snowflake-ish identity politics. Anything else would get you banned anymore.

—

"Obama promised transparency, but Assange is the one who brought it."

Submitted by Pricknick on Sun, 06/18/2017 - 9:46pm

That was a comedy.

@Tall Bald and Ugly

Dr. Stranglove riding the bomb.

Nobody should be laughing now.

—

Regardless of the path in life I chose, I realize it's always forward, never straight.

Submitted by FuturePassed on Sun, 06/18/2017 - 11:40pm

Commedy?

@Pricknick
A VERY dark comedy that described the logic of nuclear strategy at the time quite accurately.

Switch to Fail Safe if you prefer.

Submitted by MrWebster on Mon, 06/19/2017 - 12:49am

War insanity.

I did something I promised not to do and that was troll TOP--just to get the mood for war. My take--many democrats will support a direct war against Assad. I image they will do what gopers have done in the past--support Obama and Hillary's wars, but then attack the president for incompetently handling the war.

But there was something interesting about maybe 2 weeks ago. The Kurds allowed a lot of ISIS fighters to leave the Raqqa. They seemed to be going toward Palmyra. The Russians wiped out the convoy. This made me suspect that the Kurds agreed to let ISIS leave the city to avoid some nasty urban warfare. But in return ISIS gets safe passage to go fight Assad and the Russians.

Submitted by Alligator Ed on Mon, 06/19/2017 - 1:53am

Alternate interpretation

@MrWebster Kurds let ISIS flee Raqqa, setting them up for obliteration by the Russians. The Syrain equivalent of the "Highway of Death" in Kuwait. Well played, Peshmerga!

Submitted by Linda Wood on Mon, 06/19/2017 - 10:02am

The Kurds

@MrWebster
so far haven't shown the duplicity that you describe here, as far as I've read. They appear to be the one constant, and if it's possible to say this about any force in this slaughter, they could be seen as the good guys.

Submitted by CB on Mon, 06/19/2017 - 10:33am

The Kurds are not a uniform group

@Linda Wood
There is a long history of inter-fighting between various factions. In Syria, there have been weekly reports of arrests and detentions.

Post-Sinjar tensions continue: Over 40 PYD rivals arrested in Syria, KNC offices burned
March 13, 2017

Qamishli – Over 40 supporters of the Barzani-backed Kurdish National Council (KNC) were arrested in northern Syria, following clashes between armed groups of the Kurdistan Workers Party (PKK) and the Kurdistan Democratic Party (KDP) on 3 March in Sinjar.

“They released some of them but still more than 40 persons are in the PYD-run prisons,” said Majdal Delli, a member of the KNC-affiliated Yekiti party in Qamishli. “This is because of the Sinjar clashes.”
...
Heavy clashes broke out on 3 March after 500 KDP-affiliated Syrian Kurdish Rojava Peshmergas clashed with the PKK-affiliated Sinjar Resistance Units (YBS) in the town of Khanasor. Since then tensions between KDP and PKK linked parties continue both in Iraqi Kurdistan and Rojava.

You can get daily reports about Kurds in Syria here: http://aranews.net/tag/qamishli/

Submitted by CB on Mon, 06/19/2017 - 1:49am

Unconfirmed report. Three US soldiers killed

in Raqqa area by ISIS.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1HOt9U_Qs5I

Submitted by snoopydawg on Mon, 06/19/2017 - 2:45am

It's confirmed

@CB
DK brought out the IGTNT diaries which mentioned the 3 soldiers.
I would like to retire that series for good.

—

Which AIPAC/MIC/pharma/bank bought politician are you going to vote for? Don’t be surprised when nothing changes.

Submitted by irishking on Mon, 06/19/2017 - 6:12am

amen.

@snoopydawg

Submitted by detroitmechworks on Mon, 06/19/2017 - 9:39am

That series was always masturbatory

@snoopydawg always struck me as ludicrous to celebrate a "sacrifice" instead of demanding answers for death.

Of course, war cultists do love them some good old fashioned human sacrifice, as long as it's somebody else's kid on the stone altar.

—

I do not pretend I know what I do not know.

Submitted by snoopydawg on Mon, 06/19/2017 - 11:54am

I agree, DMW

@detroitmechworks
No one could ask why those soldiers were killed or what could be done to stop the senseless slaughter was allowed. Just lots of comments with candles and hugs.
Missed opportunity, imo

—

Which AIPAC/MIC/pharma/bank bought politician are you going to vote for? Don’t be surprised when nothing changes.

Submitted by Steven D on Mon, 06/19/2017 - 7:59am

We are rapidly approaching a point of no return

where a war with Iran will be triggered.

Our leaders on both sides of the aisle and in the MIC seem to have a never ending thirst for blood.

—

"You can't just leave those who created the problem in charge of the solution."---Tyree Scott

Submitted by dervish on Mon, 06/19/2017 - 8:49am

CNN just announced that Russia

@Steven D has broken the agreement to cooperate on Syria. Go figure, we shoot down a Syrian jet, but it's Russia that broke the agreement.

How's that for spin?

—

"Obama promised transparency, but Assange is the one who brought it."

Submitted by CB on Mon, 06/19/2017 - 9:20am

Looks like Russia is starting to play hardball.

@dervish
It's time for the US to stop its illegal aggression in Syria.

No More Games: Russia Vows to Track and Target Any US Aircraft 'West of the Euphrates'

Moscow sends a crystal-clear message to Washington: The games in Syria are over
...
“In the areas of combat missions of Russian air fleet in Syrian skies, any airborne objects, including aircraft and unmanned vehicles of the [US-led] international coalition, located to the west of the Euphrates River, will be tracked by Russian ground and air defense forces as air targets,” the Russian Ministry of Defense stated.
...

BREAKING: Russia Cuts Military Communication Line With US in Syria

Moscow has suspended communication with the US military in Syria in response to the downing of a Syrian jet by coalition forces

Submitted by Linda Wood on Mon, 06/19/2017 - 10:36am

Didn't we want

@CB
a no-fly zone? Now we have it.

Submitted by CB on Mon, 06/19/2017 - 10:49am

Hahahahaha....

@Linda Wood

Submitted by snoopydawg on Mon, 06/19/2017 - 12:01pm

Next up on DK: Trump is helping Russia protect Assad

@CB
or some other bullshit headline over there that will say that Trump is Putin's puppet.
Good lord, the US refused to honor the peace treaty and continued on its merry way of death and destruction while the people at home are distracted by the daily propaganda.

—

Which AIPAC/MIC/pharma/bank bought politician are you going to vote for? Don’t be surprised when nothing changes.

Submitted by CB on Mon, 06/19/2017 - 9:28am

MoA has an interesting report

Syria Summary - U.S. Attack Fails To Disrupt Push To Deir Ezzor
...
There are a few civilian lunatics in the White House who push for widening the war on Syria into an all out U.S.-Iran war. The military leadership is pushing back. It fears for its forces in Iraq and elsewhere in the larger area. But there are also elements within the U.S. military and the CIA that take a more aggressive pro-war position.

Yesterday a U.S. F-18 jet shot down a Syrian air force bomber near the city of Raqqa. The U.S. Central Command ludicrously claims that this was in "self defense" of its invading forces and its Kurdish proxies (Syria Democratic Forces - SDF) within a "deconflicting zone" in the town of Jardin.

This is a lie. Neither is there any agreed upon "deconflicting zone" in the area nor was the town of Jardin held by SDF forces at the time of the attack.

The Syrian government as well as witnesses on the ground refute the U.S. claims. The Syrian Observatory in Britain, often cited as authoritative about events in Syria, says the U.S. jets attacked the Syrian one in support of Islamic State forces:

A regime warplane was targeted and dropped in the skies of the al-Resafa area [...] the warplane was shot down over Al-Resafa area of which the regime forces have reached to its frontiers today, and sources suggested to the Syrian Observatory for Human Rights that warplanes of the International Coalition targeted it during its flight in close proximity to the airspace of the International Coalition’s warplanes, which caused its debris to fall over Resafa city amid an unknown fate of its pilot, the sources confirmed that the warplane did not target the Syria Democratic Forces in their controlled areas located at the contact line with regime forces’ controlled areas in the western countryside of Al-Tabaqa to the road of Al-Raqqah – Resafa.
...
One can only interpret this as an attempt by the U.S. to prevent or hinder the Syrian forces from reliefing Deir Ezzor as soon as possible. The U.S. is, willingly or not, helping the Islamic State forces who are engaged in heavy attacks on the besieged Deir Ezzor garrison. The Russian government called the U.S. attack an "act of aggression" in "breach of international law" and in "assistance for the terrorists" of the Islamic State. It will halt its air space coordination with the U.S. operations command in Syria. Additionally:

In the areas of combat missions of Russian air fleet in Syrian skies, any airborne objects, including aircraft and unmanned vehicles of the [US-led] international coalition, located to the west of the Euphrates River, will be tracked by Russian ground and air defense forces as air targets,” the Russian Ministry of Defense stated.

If I were a U.S. pilot, I would try to avoid the area ...

Submitted by Linda Wood on Mon, 06/19/2017 - 10:16am

Putin is a nuclear

power, as are we. Putin cannot win a war with us. But we cannot win a war with him. The difference between our 2 countries is that the Russian people know this, but the American people don't. Either because we are woefully uneducated or because we are drunk on the elixir of exceptionalism, we appear to believe we will prevail in a nuclear war. Prevail as what, I don't know, but whatever the Neocons have in mind, I doubt it involves a future with baseball, much less apple pie.

Submitted by dervish on Mon, 06/19/2017 - 11:17am

What they have in mind is all about baseball,

@Linda Wood Specifically a baseball bat. Have you seen that series "The Walking Dead"? The United States is Neegan.

—

"Obama promised transparency, but Assange is the one who brought it."

Submitted by native on Mon, 06/19/2017 - 10:31am

Russia has announced that from now on,

any "coalition" aircraft operating west of the Euphrates will be "targeted". I suppose that to mean warned off or shot down. US media claim that the downed Syrian plane had bombed SDF forces, but Syria/Russia say no, it was attacking Daesh... and should not have been in the area anyway.
The fog of war is pretty dense here, but I tend to distrust anything the USG says regarding Syria.

Will the USA heed Russia's warning and back off? And if not, then what? Seems it would be only a matter of time until an American plane gets shot down. I don't think Russia is bluffing about that.

—

native

Submitted by Linda Wood on Mon, 06/19/2017 - 10:45am

I'm not trying to be

@native
devil's advocate here, but with all our talk about dividing up Syria into zones controlled by various nations or companies or whatever we decide, I can see why Assad would want to control Raqqa now, as soon as possible, even if the SDF has been a key force in destroying Daesh. I see the SDF as good guys in the sense that they have not joined Nusra or CIA. But from Assad's point of view, they're still opposition and still supported by American military and the "coalition," which is Saudi/CIA/ISIS. We're trying to be 2 things at once, since we began this thing, against ISIS and against Assad at the same time. Now it's blown up in our face.

Submitted by CB on Mon, 06/19/2017 - 11:03am

The real prize is Dier az Zor

@Linda Wood
The US is using Raqqa as a road block to Assad's forces making a pincer movement on Dier az Zor in conjunction with his forces moving in from Palmyra. The Kurds can't move much further south as they will be entering Syrian Arab populated areas where there is much less civilian support.

If the SDF continues to back off from Raqqa and move against the SAA south of Raqqa, we will know that is the game plan.

Submitted by dervish on Mon, 06/19/2017 - 11:25am

A thriving Daesh state

@Linda Wood in eastern Syria seems vital to US plans.

—

"Obama promised transparency, but Assange is the one who brought it."

Submitted by Ellen North on Tue, 06/20/2017 - 7:58pm

@Linda Wood

@Linda Wood

Their public face, or their private face?

—

Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.

A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.

Submitted by dervish on Mon, 06/19/2017 - 11:22am

Jeremy Bash, tool that he is,

@native is on MSNBC now claiming that Russia is interfering with legitimate US actions against ISIS. His claims are so twisted and convoluted as to beggar belief. Mrs. Greenspan is just nodding her head at his sage commentary.

Who falls for this shit?

—

"Obama promised transparency, but Assange is the one who brought it."

Submitted by lizzyh7 on Mon, 06/19/2017 - 1:49pm

Exceptional Americans

@dervish fall for it every single time....

—

Only a fool lets someone else tell him who his enemy is. Assata Shakur

Submitted by CB on Mon, 06/19/2017 - 4:17pm

Maybe that's why they're called exceptional?

@lizzyh7
Being exceptional is not necessarily a good thing. We've got exceptionally stupid, exceptionally ignorant, exceptionally self centered. There's just no end to being exceptional.

Submitted by Linda Wood on Mon, 06/19/2017 - 11:11am

Inherent Resolve

http://www.inherentresolve.mil/News/News-Releases/Article/1217917/coalit...

Coalition Defends Partner Forces from Syrian Fighter Jet Attack
By CJTF-OIR | June 19, 2017

SOUTHWEST ASIA – At approximately 4:30 p.m. Syria time, June 18, Pro-Syrian regime forces attacked the Syrian Democratic Forces-held town of Ja'Din, South of Tabqah, wounding a number of SDF fighters and driving the SDF from the town.

Coalition aircraft conducted a show of force and stopped the initial pro-regime advance toward the SDF-controlled town.

Following the Pro-Syrian forces attack, the Coalition contacted its Russian counterparts by telephone via an established ‘de-confliction line’ to de-escalate the situation and stop the firing.

At 6:43 p.m., a Syrian regime SU-22 dropped bombs near SDF fighters south of Tabqah and, in accordance with rules of engagement and in collective self-defense of Coalition partnered forces, was immediately shot down by a U.S. F/A-18E Super Hornet.

Ja'Din sits approximately two kilometers north of an established East-West SDF-Syrian Regime de-confliction area.

The Coalition’s mission is to defeat ISIS in Iraq and Syria. The Coalition does not seek to fight Syrian regime, Russian, or pro-regime forces partnered with them, but will not hesitate to defend Coalition or partner forces from any threat.

The Coalition presence in Syria addresses the imminent threat ISIS in Syria poses globally. The demonstrated hostile intent and actions of pro-regime forces toward Coalition and partner forces in Syria conducting legitimate counter-ISIS operations will not be tolerated.

The Coalition calls on all parties to focus their efforts on the defeat of ISIS, which is our common enemy and the greatest threat to regional and worldwide peace and security.

This statement says to me, again, that the American military is in a war with the CIA, which backs Saudi Arabia and ISIS, and is not of the understanding that it is there to replace the Assad regime. At the same time, I can understand the Assad regime having a hard time believing that, given the CIA backing of Nusra, ISIS, and Saudi Arabia.

This is Fucked Up Beyond All Recognition by Neocon hubris, magical thinking, and the delirium of power.

Submitted by Linda Wood on Mon, 06/19/2017 - 11:16am

Can we now say

that the CIA is an outlaw organization committing treason against the United States?

Submitted by dervish on Mon, 06/19/2017 - 11:26am

We've been able to say that since 1948. n/t

@Linda Wood

—

"Obama promised transparency, but Assange is the one who brought it."

Submitted by Linda Wood on Mon, 06/19/2017 - 11:49am

Absolutely true.

@dervish

Submitted by CB on Mon, 06/19/2017 - 12:31pm

Back to the future

@dervish
That was about the time the nascent CIA attempted their very first regime change. It was in support of the Arabian American Oil Company's (ARAMCO) Trans-Arabian Pipe Line (TAPLINE) that the Syrian president refused.

Seventy years later we are still at it.