Pelosi Goes Bigly Bonkers...Again

Well, RT.com calls it ‘Berserk’; some called it ‘unhinged’: ‘Nancy Pelosi goes BERSERK when Wolf Blitzer challenges her on pandemic relief talks, calls CNN 'apologists' for the REPUBLICANS’, 14 Oct, 2020

“Blitzer then tried to wrap up the interview, but both he and Pelosi resisted giving each other the last word. After Pelosi again told him he was wrong on the issue, Blitzer said, “It's not about me, it's about millions of Americans who can't put food on the table, who can't pay the rent.” Pelosi then talked over the host, saying, “We represent them, and we know them.”

As Blitzer again hinted that the interview was ending, thanking Pelosi, she snarked, “Thank you for your sensitivity to our constituents' needs,” to which the host replied, “I am sensitive to them because I see them on the street begging for food, begging for money.” Pelosi was again triggered, saying, “Have you fed them? We feed them. We feed them.”

Trump proposes $1.8T coronavirus relief package’, Oct. 9, 2020, thehill.com

“Inching closer to Democrats’ demands, President Trump and his aides on Friday offered Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) a $1.8 trillion coronavirus relief package, sources said, as the president urged the negotiators to “go big.”

The new figure was a jump from the White House’s $1.6 trillion offer last week, but there was no indication that Pelosi would come down from her demand for a $2.2 trillion package.
...............................................
“In one concession, the White House is raising its offer on emergency aid for cash-strapped cities and states to $300 billion, up from a $250 billion offer last week, sources said. A bill passed by House Democrats last week calls for $436 billion in aid for state and local governments.”
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“Today, the Secretary returned to the table with a proposal that attempted to address some of the concerns Democrats have,” Pelosi spokesman Drew Hammill tweeted. “Of special concern, is the absence of an agreement on a strategic plan to crush the virus. For this and other provisions, we are still awaiting language from the Administration as negotiations on the overall funding amount continue.”

Last week her gripes were no bucks for child care nor her Heroes Act, as in the interview.

And the Word from on High is: 'Bill Gates says life will return to normal only after SECOND generation of Covid vaccines rolled out and virus eliminated globally', 12 Oct, 2020 , RT.com

p.s. I sure hope I've finally gotten all the Tweet in order; the first time I'd screwed up, then every program I'd had up crashed and burned, an I'd had to befin again.

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ggersh's picture

talk about being past ones "due date" Nancy personifies it!

[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gKCI8C9x4ZI]

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11 users have voted.

I never knew that the term "Never Again" only pertained to
those born Jewish

"Antisemite used to be someone who didn't like Jews
now it's someone who Jews don't like"

Heard from Margaret Kimberley

wendy davis's picture

@ggersh

indeed. one foot in her dementia grave, the other on a banana peel.

go shahid!

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11 users have voted.
Dawn's Meta's picture

I'm really thinking it's time for term limits since the two year turn over isn't working. Maybe limit to four for the House and two for the Senate??

The staff is another problem. They are lifers.

Thanks Wendy.

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14 users have voted.

A society grows great when old men plant trees in whose shade they know they shall never sit. Allegedly Greek, but more possibly fairly modern quote.

Consider helping by donating using the button in the upper left hand corner. Thank you.

@Dawn's Meta proceed to the November general election. Pelosi's November opponent is Shahid Buttar. In the March primary, Nancy got 74% and Buttar got 13%. Buttar is very articulate, but still didn't have much of a chance. Was effectively sidelined in July by a claim of sexual harassment. Leftists quickly ran away from him before taking any time to assess the allegation. Subsequent developments, that received almost no public attention, IMO indicate that the claimant is unstable and a fantasist. But you know, in these days, gotta believe every woman (unless ...).

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wendy davis's picture

@Dawn's Meta

oopsie, it looks as though marie has said buttar's been #MeTooed. shit, oh dear. too late in the day for him to ask for his day in court.

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7 users have voted.

on policy. That makes her weak as the public face of the House Democrats and Democrats in general.

She's the Democratic House leader for one reason: she's a super fundraiser among wealthy people. She speaks their language and they aren't too interested in policy.

As long as she remains the top dog in the House, SF voters will no more toss her ass out of office than KY voters will do the same to McConnell. Same seems to be true for Schumer, another lame party leader.

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15 users have voted.

@Marie (not that Nancy was capable of stressing it):

“Of special concern, is the absence of an agreement on a strategic plan to crush the virus.

And they should stop calling it a "stimulus." Until the virus is well contained, it's welfare and trillion dollar deals every few months will be necessary. Once contained, a "stimulus" would be appropriate to kick start the economy.

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10 users have voted.
usefewersyllables's picture

@Marie

even though it is accurate: that word causes republicans to go completely apoplectic, and will result in nothing but knee-jerk opposition and the dragging-out of the tired old welfare-queen trope. Again.

Instead, let's call it a temporary lifeline, or stipend, or a freeze-to-death-delayer; anything but "welfare". The connotation index for that word is entirely negative as seen by "conservatives" in the current world.

Think of it the way any good propagandist does. Which would you rather have- a nice, thick, juicy steak, or a segment of muscle tissue torn from the carcass of an immature, castrated bull? Kinda like that.

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11 users have voted.

Twice bitten, permanently shy.

@usefewersyllables
A start and let it grow?

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5 users have voted.

I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.

wendy davis's picture

@The Voice In the Wilderness

of course, but my guess is that any sort (dollar amount) of UBI would lead to every other remaining parts of the social safety net blinking out.

ack, i was about to go into the reasons i don't like michael hudson's calling for a Debt Jubilee instead, but it won't happen.

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5 users have voted.
WoodsDweller's picture

@wendy davis
...if the amounts were set properly wouldn't be a bad thing. The current patchwork of aid programs doesn't represent careful system design, it was simply the product of the political process passing whatever they could get the votes for at the time. We could do worse than to simplify and replace all of it with a single, universal payment and Medicare for All.

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7 users have voted.

"The greatest shortcoming of the human race is our inability to understand the exponential function." -- Albert Bartlett
"A species that is hurtling toward extinction has no business promoting slow incremental change." -- Caitlin Johnstone

@wendy davis
It's optics. Right now, low wage owners resent welfare. "I'm working my ass off and they get money for not working." So give everyone enough money to live. Of course, taxes have to go up to pay for it and it all comes out in the wash, but it looks different. We do save the money of tracking and verifying income and processing applications.

Re Jubilee. Could work. FED prints their funny money crediting the US government. Government pays off the bankers. (You didn't think the bankers would wind up holding the bag, did you? They own Congress and Biden.) Then the banks will push new auto loans, mortgages and student loans and spend-aholics will apply for them.

Re banks owning Biden. it's obvious from his 40 year record that he's their B-word. Trump? Trump is so erratic that he's a loose cannon. they want reliable lackey's. can't get much more reliable than Biden. and when it's obvious that he's drooling senile, Harris is their, their reliable "House N___". Sorry to use that term but it fits. And it fit Obama. More than one black person has told me privately that they were extremely disappointed in Obama and only defended him because he was their Black President. Can't blame them. We worked with Tea party members and I would have done the same in their shoes. In fact, I remember telling one who called him a communist. "No, he's not a Communist. If he was he'd be better!"

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4 users have voted.

I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.

@usefewersyllables @usefewersyllables Why prettify an economic reality that ten of millions of Americans and hundreds of thousands of businesses lack any savings and access to sufficient credit to see them through a short term income decline?

We're so awash in euphemisms in this country that senior rightwingers carry "Keep government hands off my Medicare" placards. It dumbs down the populace.

There were far more effective and fairer ways that the first shutdown could have been managed other than checks signed by Donald Trump. Those were welfare checks.

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5 users have voted.

@Marie .

Until the virus is well contained,

What does that mean? I have no earthly idea what would constitute "well contained." I would certainly like to see it happen. I once posted a thread here called How Do We Know When We Have Won or Lost? It had some interesting comments, but no final answer to the question.

Here is what I got out the discussion:
.

Getting "back to normal" is already in the realm of unicorns and single payer health care -- things that will never, ever, happen.

The format here discourages extended thread discussions and so there is not much point in developing this thought on this thread. But, hell, that really is the question of the hour.

So here's my minimalist answer -- winning means the end of all restrictions on personal conduct. I cannot imagine a way to define putting an end to the "threat" of more infections, so my definition comes from reference to the great decision-making process as established originally by the Constitution. Once whoever shut us down says to go back into the world without a mask and without fear of other people breathing your air, we have "won."

Of course this way of defining victory leaves open the possibility of the disease continuing to invade more bodies, making more people sick and killing some. It would join tobacco, alcohol, automobile accidents, cancer, heart disease, diabetes and everything else that kills people as part of life.

How many deaths per year does it take to render this fatalistic approach unacceptable? Ten covid deaths per year? Ten thousand? One million? Is there a cut off line, or do we have to stay locked down until this and every other virus to come is extinguished by a Universal Vaccine?

A failure to think through this kind of question is the precise reason why our response to the virus so far has been such a fiasco. It is long past time that our society start to look before we leap into the next chapter of this dystopian adventure.

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I did not use the verb, contain, on that thread. It is an interesting thought, to "contain" a contagious disease. How does that work?

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I cried when I wrote this song. Sue me if I play too long.

@fire with fire Vietnam, and New Zealand for "well contained." All of them still have the challenge of imported cases, but are managing them.

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@Marie

We are not China, Vietnam, Korea or New Zealand. Whatever they did successfully, we have not. So how do we get from here to there -- from out of control to contained? And how low does the infection rate have to go before we can say it is contained? Is the death rate relevant? Several folks have sneered at the idea of looking at the death rate as a measure of success in fighting the virus. What is your view on that?

On this very board I was hectored for not knowing how to compare countries. The US can be compared to Spain but not to Sweden. I am keen to now why Sweden is not relevant but New Zealand is.

Finally, I love the reference to China -- a one-party police state. It had no trouble ordering its citizens to obey the dictates of Science. It would be so cool if our people would voluntarily do what is necessary to contain the virus. Seven months in, we are obviously too selfish and stupid to do what Science orders us to do. Sixty plus million of us are Trump voters who refuse to use their addled brains as they merrily spread death around.

The anger at dumb shit Trump supporters who do not obey Science is one of the few things about this moment of social dissolution that I find amusing. We are not eradicating the disease as it was done successfully on the other side of the Pacific because we are, collectively, too stupid to obey. Instead of making any effort to persuade the ignorant, the Solution is to insult these folks relentlessly and to plan on beating them in the civil war that their Trumpenfurher is plotting.

Since unity is impossible with THAT sort of people, the Shelter In Place Strategy was doomed from the start.

So, I repeat, how do we get from chaos to victory over the virus?

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4 users have voted.

I cried when I wrote this song. Sue me if I play too long.

@fire with fire

Finally, I love the reference to China -- a one-party police state. It had no trouble ordering its citizens to obey the dictates of Science.

you'll never bother to rationally review what was done in China, S. Korea, Vietnam, and New Zealand. Only China ordered a hard lockdown in Hubei province (nobody in and nobody out) and other hot spot locations for a shorter period of time. S. Korea didn't lock down at all -- except for schools for a few weeks. There were no lockdowns in the freedom loving U.S? So poorly done that they resulted in all the negative and few of the positive expectations of such a blunt hammer.

Each of those countries had particular strengths and advantages in dealing with the virus. On community spirit and cooperation Vietnam ranks the highest. China is also high. On government transparency and honesty wrt to the virus, S. Korea and Vietnam rank the highest, but NZ and China weren't too shabby. On preexisting medical systems and resources, S. Korea and New Zealand were best placed. Those countries along with many other Asian countries don't have to order mandatory masks because the people there already know to don masks when ill.

Do you even know that one of the first things done in Wuhan was to designate one hospital for Covid-19 patients, when that one ran out of room they set up temporary hospitals in whatever public spaces that could be requisitioned and began building a new temporary hospital? Think through what their process avoided.

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@Marie

With your mindset, you cannot understand the simple point I am making -- we are in chaos. I am trying to understand how we can get beyond it. Your snide response is exactly the problem -- sneering with indignation at how mentally challenged anybody is who does not shut up about the absurdity of our situation.

It is absurd. China is a one party police state. That gives their society very distinct advantages in applying the requisite social discipline that you cite approvingly. This is not to say that I have a big problem with China -- their society is a lot older and wiser than ours. I would not like to live in a one party police state, but I really don't like living in this chaotic fake democracy either. Just a malcontent, I guess.

I remain anxious to hear how this will end. Turning us into China, Vietnam, Korea or New Zealand is not in the cards. For better or worse, we are an unruly people who chafe at regimentation. That was true before the experts decided for us to try to "contain" the virus through social distancing and masks. In the collective group think of Team Lockdown, the failure of their policy is not their failure -- it was the refusal of idiots to do what was needed.

Team Lockdown looks at that as something to blame other people about. The theory was perfect as proven by several other countries -- but our people just aren't up to snuff. For Team Lockdown and their Democratic Party advocates, the only thing wrong with this country is its citizenry that is too stupid to understand science.

Why didn't that occur to those experts before they tasked the citizenry with giving up their personal plans -- and, for millions of Americans -- their livelihood and their future? Having grotesquely miscalculated the ability of this society and its corrupt government to achieve unity in fighting the virus, it appears to me that the primary effort of Team Lockdown is hiding from their own record of failure and social dissolution and amping up The Blame Game on Trump and his millions of ignorant followers.

It is always nice to have somebody to blame when your policy blows up.

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2 users have voted.

I cried when I wrote this song. Sue me if I play too long.

@fire with fire
And I think you both have good points, it will burn itself out. There was no magic bullet for the Spanish flu, nor a vaccine (had vaccines been invented?). It passed through the population burning its way until it had mutated into a less dangerous form.

Now you are going say, "How can you be sure that will happen?"
It's the mathematics of evolution. A parasite that kills its host is unfit to its environment. Less deadly forms are more successful at survival and propagation. What we do with vaccines is attempted genocide (which I'm in favor of for viruses & certain bacteria/fungi).

EDIT: several typos. I see the opthamologist next week. He's tring to control a leaky vein in my left eye.

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4 users have voted.

I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.

@The Voice In the Wilderness .

You make the most important point of all in this almost entirely avoided debate -- prior infectious disease in the history of the world, even the Black Death, eventually "burning its way through the population." I have seen it argued on this board that there is no proof that "herd immunity" applies to this virus -- but I am not sure if your expression embodies the concept of herd immunity. In any event, that argument looks to me like a reversal of the burden of proof in order to avoid answering this all-important question. Since I cannot "prove" that his virus will run its course, we all have to shut up about that possibility.

Lots of sophistry like that reversal of the burden of proof coming from Team Lockdown and I am very suspicious about that dimension of this public discussion.

I really do not have a "side" other than my angry demand for straight answers from the people who have destroyed the civilization I had known through 67 years of life. Some have pointed out that other than my personal desire for continuity, that "civilization" was the pits and it is a good thing that air travel, hotels, shopping malls and office buildings are suddenly obsolete. I really don't have an argument against that -- except that I am not sure that the rotten aspects of Modern Technological Society are the only ones to be crippled by our response to the pandemic.

I do not take a side on how serious the virus is or how many people it will kill and how many it will torment for the rest of time. I just want the self satisfied, self righteous, and self qualitied experts on public health policy to give straight answers to the basic questions of how and when do the restrictions end. I returned snippy for snippy when I got told that my "mindset" was incapable of understanding my own question.

Your point about how infectious diseases have previously run a course raises the most important issue in all of American history. What is the worst case scenario of following the previous strategy of isolating the sick and vulnerable? I have not heard of any such estimate and I would welcome you or any random reader of this discussion to post it.

My point remains that this entire seven month long night mare might or might not make sense, depending upon the answer to that question. We know what the downside risk of the cure is -- that is a done deal and there is nothing we can do about the destruction of our social order. In dollars, the price is around 10-20 trillion dollars, so far. Imagine what we could have done in terms of fighting the infection through treatment of victims with that kind of money.

But that is just the funny money cash cost so far. The eviction "spike" has been "flattened" by some of that funny money, but at least 10 million families will be kicked out of their homes over the next six months or so. At the other end of the winner-loser assessment, some windfall profit businesses, like Amazon and Fed Ex, will be the base for the "economy" to come. Whoopee!

So, if it can be "proven" that you are mistaken about the virus eventually burning itself out like the Spanish flu, and that this "novel" phenomenon will last forever, then the forever lockdown argument makes sense.

In the absence of that assessment, we are following our "leadership" blindly hoping that somebody up the chain of command knows what they are doing. That blind hope is now seven months old and the only way to maintain it is to keep your eyes shut.

My bitch remains the refusal of Team Lockdown to answer this fundamental question -- when will you ever get around to letting us all know how this shit can end? Up to now, just asking that question brings down the snarks and sneers and accusations of having the wrong "mindset."

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4 users have voted.

I cried when I wrote this song. Sue me if I play too long.

@fire with fire
My guess is after Biden is inaugurated. At that point all the political gain will have been milked,
But I'm old and cynical. I once was hpefull but Bernie's second surrender and going over to the enemy convinced me that there is no hope. The world be knew, the brief span between Hiroshima and the scramble to get out of Saigon before the NVA rolled in, is gone. In a book I have about the Austrian and German Weimar time inflation, the story is recounted of a woman, the widow of a pensioner reacting in horror as her banker suggests she sell her government bonds and (illegally) put her money into Swiss Francs. "But what can be more secure than government bonds?" "Madam, the government that issued those bonds is dead!" Will we hear this about US Treasury's?
Now is survival time. Now is the time to remember the stories of our grandparents and great-grandparents and emulate there desire, not to excel, but to stay alive and keep their children alive.

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4 users have voted.

I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.

@The Voice In the Wilderness .

It is so weird. I have known since the 1970s that something like this was bound to happen. Too many people burning up too much fossil fuel on a global scale, and within the USA, the Baby Boom was a demographic time bomb that would make the old age of my generation a night mare. You can't have a society with a third of the population on the dole. In theory, I guess a compassionate yet rational polity could easily work out any of a several share-the-wealth schemes -- but we are neither compassionate nor rational.

Full of that cynical wisdom, I still feel like an abandoned child as my plans for an interesting and productive "retirement" have been blown to smithereens by this inexplicable social catastrophe.

I should just chill out about it, but I am not able to, not just yet. I am looking for answers . . . .

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3 users have voted.

I cried when I wrote this song. Sue me if I play too long.

@fire with fire
Employees and employers paid taxes for that. If the taxes were insufficient and/or mismanaged that does not make the workers beggars. It makes the government managers incompetent and/or thieves.

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1 user has voted.

I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.

@The Voice In the Wilderness .

It was a sloppy use of the word, "dole" on my part. You are right that it implies a gift rather than something you earn.

I was using it the broader sense of income transfer, which SS is. Although you pay in throughout your life, the specific dollars deducted from your paycheck are only tangentially connected to the schedule of payments that you receive in retirement.

Whether you put your own money in the bank all your life or whether you rely on SS, in either case, the "money" you spend in retirement is utterly unrelated in buying power to the dollars you put into the system over the course of your working life. And when fewer people are producing value and more people are spending money for value, what a dollar will buy shrinks. Hyperinflation is a real threat now as so much fiat money has been created all around the world over the last several months.

My inaccurate use of the word, dole, was my short way of saying that a society cannot have more than it produces. To be sure, stealing from other people in the form of imperialism worked for several centuries to avoid that reality, but empires now cost money rather produce it.

There are better ways to distribute overall production, and it is hard to imagine a worse one than neoliberalism. But the more people taking without producing, the less there is for everybody.

Of course the real dole is inherited wealth and a lifetime of coupon clipping. Produce nothing and spend too much -- the life of the idle rich. As I mentioned, taxing these useless parasites would go a long way to keeping my generation of retirees out from under the bridges.

Would and should really do not mean much to us as we swirl around the toilet bowl as a society.

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1 user has voted.

I cried when I wrote this song. Sue me if I play too long.

wendy davis's picture

@Marie

account says she's 'fighting for the middle class', although she doesn't quite understand that's a rapidly disappearing demographic.

my guess is there's nothing that would qualify in her mind as a meaningful 'agreement on a strategic plan to crush the virus'.

see bill gates (God on High) in the OP.

the stim plans might be by way of a social safety net, but certainly not welfare, imo. but maybe we have different views of corona lockdown unemployment numbers, lockdown-generated illness numbers, and the fact that so many of us were at the bottom of the barrel financially...as the wealthier ad billions to their coffers.

now mr. wd and i wouldn't begin to scoff at another $1200 stim check each, no matter who the fuck signed it. nor would state and local govts. scoff at whatever help they get, imo.

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4 users have voted.

@wendy davis "middle class." Might be a tad less than 90%, but it's only at the upper and lowest ends of wealth and income distributions that people don't claim to be middle-class. So, of course, politicians claim to be working for the dumbed down American middle-class.

What was stimulated which should be defined as increasing demand that leads to increased employment and production? Amazon and all the imported crap made in China? Meanwhile, those people hit first and hardest were the furloughed workers and small businesses forced to shut down. Keeping them as whole as possible during a well-planned, temporary shutdown should have been priority number one. The systems to deal with unemployment have been around since the late 1930s (thank you very much Frances Perkins). It only required a tweak -- furloughed and funded by the USG and not through the regular employer payroll taxation, SUTA and FUTA. The small business component was more challenging because the SBA is one of the crappiest US agencies, but the task wasn't all that difficult. Then the banks (that weren't shut down). Skip payments for the unemployed (I'd include all of them) and USG covers 50% of the interest due and the banks eat the other 50%. Not so difficult really.

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@Marie
Right. The USG sends me $1200 that I don't need, being retired, and what did I do? I ordered a batch of computer parts from my favorite supplier whose address is "Port of Los Angeles" so I can build the latest and greatest PC. Thereby stimulating China and providing at most half an hour's work for an actual US worker. Even less if, as I suspect, the order process is fully automated (on-line order using credit card) and some US worker spent maybe 15 minutes assembling the packages for shipment and they were a partial load to a US truck driver delivering it to my house (I saw the UPS 18 wheeler in front). Not much stimulus for the money. Uncle Sam could have spent the money at a local farmer's market buying produce to be donated to a food bank in Chicago, helping farmers and feeding some citizens. But then the banks and big business (UPS) wouldn't get their vigorish would they? Now if the computer manufacturing industry was still in California and Washington ... But that boat sailed a generation ago.

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2 users have voted.

I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.

ELECTION 2020|Oct 6, 2020,03:02pm EDT
Trump Says He Told Aides To Stop Negotiating Stimulus Until After Election

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Democrats outraged as Trump halts Covid stimulus talks until after election

Pelosi issued a thundering statement in the wake of the announcement, accusing Trump of “putting himself first at the expense of the country” by halting negotiations over a new coronavirus aid package from Congress.

Pelosi said Trump “showed his true colors” in stopping the talks between congressional leaders and the White House that have been aimed at bringing $2tn in new aid to fight the coronavirus. The Democratic leader said by “walking away” Trump was “unwilling to crush the virus” and is abandoning the needs of children and other Americans.

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Trump Raises Stimulus Offer to $1.8 Trillion Days After Halting Negotiations

Published Oct. 9, 2020
Updated Oct. 13, 2020

WASHINGTON — The White House moved aggressively on Friday to revive stimulus talks that President Trump had called off just days earlier, putting forward its largest offer for economic relief yet as administration officials and embattled Republican lawmakers scrambled to avoid being blamed by voters for failing to deliver needed aid ahead of the election.

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When Trump refuses to negotiate he is evil. When he negotiates it is only because he wants credit with the voters as part of his evil scheme to become a fascist dictator. Uh huh.

This ridiculous dance between Trump and the Dems has been going on for almost four years now. Trump contradicts himself very, very often. His every Zig is evil and the consequential Zag is also evil.

Both "sides" agree on the military budget, except the Dems once raised Trump's original proposal. Both "sides" agree that banks and corporations should be free to do whatever they want to make a buck. Both "sides" agree that the energy companies' future is more important than the future of the human race.

And here, both "sides" agree to do something about the economic fallout from shutting down a significant portion of public life and economic activity. They also agree that a "deal" is possible, if only those Evil Bastards on the Other Side would live up to their responsibilities to protect the American People.

Yes, if only the Other Side would quit being so evil . . . .

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14 users have voted.

I cried when I wrote this song. Sue me if I play too long.

@fire with fire

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7 users have voted.

I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.

WoodsDweller's picture

Controlling only the House, the Democrats have a weak hand in negotiations. It can be argued that you need to hold out for the best deal because there might not be another deal down the road. Certainly there are a number of Republican senators who don't want another deal at all.
The numbers currently indicate the Democrats gaining ground after the election. Biden, even though he's spent his entire career in the wrong party, is going to be a better negotiating partner than Trump. If the Democrats succeed in taking the Senate they will have a much stronger position. They will be able to guarantee more deals and don't need to fight over every scrap in this deal.
Best case they pass another bill in February. That means the current deal is a stopgap for the next four or five months.
If the Republicans manage to cling to Senate control there will still need to be follow on bills because the depression isn't going to go away. We know what fixes depressions, putting money into peoples' hands, either through a Federal jobs program or by just dropping money from helicopters.
Either way there are going to be more deals to be made, and under more favorable circumstances.
The political leverage will be gone in another few days as the election draws near. The deal on the table is the best one you're going to get until spring.
So why not take it? Politics. Trading whatever good $1.8 trillion will do over the next few months against a couple of congressional seats. Only an out-of-touch aristocrat would consider that a good deal.

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"The greatest shortcoming of the human race is our inability to understand the exponential function." -- Albert Bartlett
"A species that is hurtling toward extinction has no business promoting slow incremental change." -- Caitlin Johnstone

wendy davis's picture

@WoodsDweller

two in the february bush is worth more than one in the hand?

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snoopydawg's picture

Speaker Pelosi. What I say to you is, I don't know if you're always an apologists, and many of your colleagues apologists, for the Republican position. Ro Khanna, that’s nice. That isn’t what we’re going to do, and nobody is waiting until February. I want this very much now, because people need help now.

But it's no use giving them a false thing just because the President wants to put a check with his name on it in the mail that we should not be doing all we can to help people pay the rent, put food on the table, to enhance benefits, that they don't lose their jobs if they’re state and local, that they – this – we are talking about the consequences of a pandemic, symptoms of a problem that the President refuses to address and that is the coronavirus. That is the coronavirus.

Wolf Blitzer. But we know, Madam Speaker, we know about the problem out there, but here are millions of Americans who have lost their jobs. They can't pay their rent. Their kids need the food.

Speaker Pelosi. That’s right, and that’s what we’re trying to get done.

Wolf Blitzer. $1.8 trillion and the President just tweeted, ‘Stimulus go big or go home.’

Speaker Pelosi. Right.

Wolf Blitzer.
He wants more right now

Speaker Pelosi. That’s right.

Wolf Blitzer. So, why not work out a deal with him and don't let the perfect, as they say here in Washington, be the enemy of the good?

Speaker Pelosi. Well, I will not let the wrong be the enemy of the right.

Wolf Blitzer. What is wrong with $1.8 trillion?

Speaker Pelosi. You know what? Do you have any idea what the difference is between the spending they have in their bill and that we have in our bill? Do you realize that they have come back and said all of these things for Child Tax Credits and Earned Income Tax Credits or helping people who lost their jobs are eliminated in their bill? Do you realize they pay no respect to the fact that child care is very important for people whose children cannot go to school because they are doing remote learning and, yet, they minimize the need for child care, which is the threshold with which people, mothers and fathers, can go to work if they have that? Do you have any idea at how woefully short their concern, their concern –

Wolf Blitzer. That is precisely why, Madam Speaker, it's important right now. Yesterday, I spoke yesterday to Andrew Yang who said the same thing. It's not everything you want, but a lot there.

Speaker Pelosi. Okay you know what? Honest to God. You really – I can't get over it because Andrew Yang, he’s lovely. Ro Khanna, he’s lovely. But they are not negotiating this situation. They have no idea of the particulars. They have no idea of what the language is here. I didn't come over here to have you – so you're the apologist for the Obama – excuse me. God forbid. Thank God for Barack Obama

Wolf Blitzer. Madam Speaker, I’m not an apologist. I'm asking you serious questions because people are in desperate need right now.

Wolf Blitzer. Madam Speaker, when was the last time you spoke with the President about this?

Speaker Pelosi. I don't speak to the President. I speak to his representative.

Wolf Blitzer. Why not? Why not call him, and say ‘Mr. President, let's work out a deal. It’s not going to be everything you want, not going to be everything I want, but there are so many Americans right now who are in desperate need. Let's make a deal.’

Speaker Pelosi. What makes me amused, if it weren't so sad, is how you all think that you know more about the suffering of the American people than those of us who are elected by them to represent them at that table. It is unfortunate that we do not have shared values with this White House and that they have, in their bill – why don't you talk about in their bill, a tax break for the wealthiest families in the country while they cut out the Earned Income Tax Credit for the poorest families and poorest children in our country; that we have to fight with them to get them to address the coronavirus crisis because they have said it's a hoax, it was magical, it's a miracle and it’s going to cure. It hasn't, and that's why we find ourselves in this situation.

I feel very confident about the knowledge that I bring to this, but, more importantly, the knowledge that my chairs are – our chairs of jurisdiction, science-based, academically documented, institutionally suggested in terms of what the cost would be to do it and to do it that way. And we talk about child care, yes. We talk about safety in the workplace, safety in the workplace. That is very important issue, especially in the time of the pandemic.

So, what I say to those people is, we are going to get a deal, and when we do, it will be retroactive. It will be retroactive.
]

McConnell and Trump want to give companies blanket immunity if they don't do everything in their power to keep their workers safe which Pelosi is hinting that will not pass. Companies are not keeping their workers safe. They are not telling people that their co-workers are infected and some places are making sick people stay on the job. WSWS has been covering the massacre of the working class quite well. One CEO said that if a worker dies there will be 10 more people willing to take their place. Worker's compensation insurance has been broken for decades. I am coming up on 23 years since I was injured on my job, lost not only my job, but my career too. I had to fight for treatment after it was denied for 8 months until my doctor took me off work. Then the games began in earnest. I must have gone to court to battle the insurance company 10 times or more and the judge always ruled in my favor, but then they would deny or delay again and off to court we'd go. Rinse and repeat. I can't help wondering where I'd be if I had gotten treatment at 6 weeks when my doc said my injury this time was more severe. This was my 3rd back injury at work. The 2 previous times I worked through it. I continued working for 8 months while getting worse by the day until I stopped. After 5 years from date of injury I finally had back surgery. But by then the damage to the nerves was permanent and here I am....

Since my injury and case it has gotten much worse. I am not really exaggerating when I say you can have your arm amputated but the worker comp docs will say it is just a sprain and deny benefits. If McConnell does get the immunity deal passed we are back before we had laws in place. The auto companies have changed people's work schedule from 8 hour days/5 days a week to 7 12 hour days with a week off in between. The union authorized this change over the workers consent. What we are witnessing is an all out assault on workers. These changes were coming before COVID, but like other issues the elite are capitalizing on their power.

We talk about safety in the workplace, safety in the workplace.

Even before COVID safety in the workplace has not been an issue for the corrupt elite. Less and less companies get fined for exploiting workers. This will put the cork in it. More working people need to know about this. They don't care how many die unless it affects their profits.

Jimmy pounced on the Pelosi/Wolf spat and boy did he nail it.

How are the centrists taking this this? Don't pick on Nancy. She doesn't as much power as people think she does. And if you think that yes should be agreeing on getting it done, then no GBCW diary for you. Ta ta and don't let the door hit ya.

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Which AIPAC/MIC/pharma/bank bought politician are you going to vote for? Don’t be surprised when nothing changes.

snoopydawg's picture

Rising covered the deal before Pelosi melted down on nat TV and said that if she thinks that there is going to be a better deal than what is being offered she is either nuts or........
Who is going to push for the deal if Trump loses? If the GOP loses the senate? Biden tweeted yesterday that "Americans are not looking for a handout." Welp that sure tells me that Biden is not going to do squat for us if he is president just like he and Obama didn't when they had the chance.

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Which AIPAC/MIC/pharma/bank bought politician are you going to vote for? Don’t be surprised when nothing changes.

wendy davis's picture

@snoopydawg

and once again: brilliant and brave of krystal ball, plus additions by sagaar.

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wendy davis's picture

one item should have been donald trumps 2 further tweets i'd brought on my updated 'dueling tweets' making offers to pelosi, but i'm too busy and tired to go fetch them.

but as both silicon valley (blech, PU) ro khanna and saggar enjeti had tweets on that OP, i went and dug up (and sorry to have been so long, but: Needs Must):

Saagar Enjeti: Trump's LAST CHANCE Is To FORCE Republicans To Vote For Stimulus (it’s interrupted by ads, but hang in there, it’s brilliant)

[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CB4ulsJfjcM]

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travelerxxx's picture

@wendy davis

Saagar is absolutely correct. If Trump really wants to win, he'll do what Saagar prescribes. But anyone's guess is as good as mine as to his move. Not placing any bets on this. They're all crazy and on the take.

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wendy davis's picture

@travelerxxx

msn homepage was a piece noting that Mnuchin doubts any package will get thru before election day because: a few recalcitrant Rs. so sagaar was indeed correct. i'd also admire his explanation of what the Tea Partiers claim to represent...but don't.

i also love the biden Tweet snoopy brought: 'americans don't like handouts' iirc (blink, blink). speaking of whom, the hunter biden in ukraine story seems to blowing up big time, claims of with censorship rampant. and joe's election meddling there has surfaced again, of course.

our internet went down in the late afternoon. fiddled w/ everything i could, even dragged out the new replacement modem (Luddite) i wasn't able to grasp last time i tried to put it online. but mr. wd hours later called some magic number at our provider, and she eventually got the system to reboot. hola!

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Bonkers, berserk, unhinged? I really didn't see that. It just seemed like she was arguing strongly for her position, and let her arrogance come out. If her actions over decades hadn't been so horrible, I'd probably be jumping to her support.

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3 users have voted.
wendy davis's picture

@tle

we all have the right to our own opinions.

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