Open Thread Friday
At times I may sound anti-drug treatment. I fully support taking medication if it is for the five rights: right reason, right dose, right response, right length of time and right monitoring. These criteria should be used for all prescriptions, over the counter drugs and supplements and evaluated periodically.
Detailed advice on managing drug therapy is included in the diary Mitigating Medication Misadventures
Side effects can not always be totally eliminated and may need to be managed. Being aware of potential problems is one of the obstacles. Need to do your own research and some of the info can be hard to find.
The medications that change who we are
(examples in article: statins lowering cholesterol, paracetamol aka acetaminophen or Tylenol, antidepressants - serotonin reuptake inhibitor (SSRI) and l dopa for Parkinson's)
They’ve been linked to road rage, pathological gambling, and complicated acts of fraud. Some make us less neurotic, and others may even shape our social relationships. It turns out many ordinary medications don’t just affect our bodies – they affect our brains. Why? And should there be warnings on packets?
...
He had diabetes, and he had signed up for a study to see if taking a “statin” – a kind of cholesterol-lowering drug – might help. So far, so normal.But soon after he began the treatment, his wife began to notice a sinister transformation. A previously reasonable man, he became explosively angry and – out of nowhere – developed a tendency for road rage. During one memorable episode, he warned his family to keep away, lest he put them in hospital.
...
– in her experience, most patients struggle to recognize their own behavioral changes, let alone connect them to their medication. In some instances, the realisation comes too late: the researcher was contacted by the families of a number of people, including an internationally renowned scientist and a former editor of a legal publication, who took their own lives.We’re all familiar with the mind-bending properties of psychedelic drugs – but it turns out ordinary medications can be just as potent. From paracetamol (known as acetaminophen in the US) to antihistamines, statins, asthma medications and antidepressants, there’s emerging evidence that they can make us impulsive, angry, or restless, diminish our empathy for strangers, and even manipulate fundamental aspects of our personalities, such as how neurotic we are.
....
How are all these medications affecting our brains? And should there be warnings on packets?Golomb first suspected a connection between statins and personality changes nearly two decades ago, after a series of mysterious discoveries, such as that people with lower cholesterol levels are more likely to die violent deaths. Then one day, she was chatting to a cholesterol expert about the potential link in the hallway at her work, when he brushed it off as obviously nonsense. “And I said ‘how do we know that?’,” she says.
...
But Golomb’s most unsettling discovery isn’t so much the impact that ordinary drugs can have on who we are – it’s the lack of interest in uncovering it. “There’s much more of an emphasis on things that doctors can easily measure,” she says, explaining that, for a long time, research into the side-effects of statins was all focused on the muscles and liver, because any problems in these organs can be detected using standard blood tests.This is something that Dominik Mischkowski, a pain researcher from Ohio University, has also noticed. “There is a remarkable gap in the research actually, when it comes to the effects of medication on personality and behaviour,” he says. “We know a lot about the physiological effects of these drugs – whether they have physical side effects or not, you know. But we don't understand how they influence human behaviour.”
...
One reason medications can have such psychological clout is that the body isn’t just a bag of separate organs, awash with chemicals with well-defined roles – instead, it’s a network, in which many different processes are linked.
Continuing the Journey into Chinese Medicine
Another excerpt from
Forgotten Traditions of Ancient Chinese Medicine. Translation by Paul U Unschuld of The Hsueh Yuan Liu Lun of 1757 by Hsu Ta-ch'un
On Parallels in the Use of Drugs and the Use of Soldiers
In the efforts to protect the lives of people, The Sages [of antiquity] employed the five grains to nourish [the influences of the five viscera], the five fruits for support, [meat of] the five domestic animals to benefit [the five viscera] and the five vegetables for filling [what was depleted], but they made use of toxic drugs to attack the evil. Even kan-ts'ao and ginseng may be counted among the toxic drugs because they may harm if not applied properly. Those people of antiquity who liked to ingest [toxic substances produced to extent their life span] were bound to be affected by extraordinary illnesses, and they may be compared to those who love to fight in wars, and who are therefore bound to receive extraordinary injuries.Now, the rationale of having soldiers is to eliminate violence, and if there is no other way, military operations must be started. Similarly, the rationale of having drugs is to attack illness, and if there is no other way, they must be employed. The principle is the same. To suffer from an illness means, in minor cases, a loss of one's essential [influences], and in severe cases, harm to one's life. It is as if one were confronted with a hostile country.
Comments
Good morning
Luckily I take no medications. I used to take antacids and aspirin, but my weight loss cured those problems. Food should be most people's medicine IMO. Sounds like the Chinese figured that out a long time ago. What are the Chinese thoughts on fasting? I think time restricted eating (and occasional longer term fasts) have given me much better health.
Cardiologist,Aseem Malhotra, has been working to educate folks about the problems with statins...
http://foodmed.net/2016/04/malhotra-sounds-statins-death-knell-here-hopi...
https://doctoraseem.com/the-great-statins-divide/
Big pharma is fighting him tooth and nail as you might expect.
Amazing really how pervasive the cholesterol myth of heart disease is propagated. Higher cholesterol is associated with longer life spans.
https://healthimpactnews.com/2013/study-higher-cholesterol-levels-associ...
We need to get the profit motive out of healthcare. We also need new dietary guidelines to help people improve their health.
“Until justice rolls down like water and righteousness like a mighty stream.”
Good morning
Two very good links on Statins - thanks. I don't think push for statin therapy will change until the last of the major "me too" drugs are off patent. Wide spread acceptance of different treatment for stomach ulcers (infection vs stomach acid) and asthma (inflammation process vs bronchial constriction) did not occur until certain therapies became primarily generic drugs or over-the-counter meds.
Fasting does not appear to be a treatment concept in Ancient Chinese Medicine. Moderation of diet, eating right for the season of year and limiting the intake of rich foods are the core principles. Two meals a day was common and stopping before feeling full. Today's definition of fasting could be called intermittent.
Cleansing the body of toxins is a function of vegetable consumption. Vegetables were not eaten raw, rather steamed, stir fry or in soup. The thought behind cooking is eating cold vegetables disrupt digestion. It could have been a cultural norm to minimizing food poison.
Still yourself, deep water can absorb many disturbances with minimal reaction.
--When the opening appears release yourself.
Cholesterol levels and longevity
I will make a few points. First cholesterol is an important component of cellular membranes. The body manufactures cholesterol. Statins inhibit HMGCoA reductase which is required for cholesterol biosynthesis, but is several steps upstream of cholesterol (i.e. statins screw around with levels of a number of other molecules that have significant functions. Third, one thing that bothered me in studies of cholesterol and diet published years ago, was that one could lower cholesterol by changing one's diet, but it did not result in reduced overall mortality. There was some reduction in death due to cardiovascular issues, but these were offset by increases in deaths due to other causes. Finally, in older individuals there is a positive correlation between longevity and cholesterol levels. This has been shown in at least three respectable studies:
https://medium.com/the-mission/higher-cholesterol-is-associated-with-lon...
Great contribution to the conversation
The linked article included studies from Finland, Japan and Hawaii. It becomes harder to argue the increase in longevity with higher cholesterol is simply due to a unique genetic population.
The article linked at the end was interesting. I was not aware of a correlation with cholesterol levels and infection rates an a possibility to explain part of the increase in longevity.
Still yourself, deep water can absorb many disturbances with minimal reaction.
--When the opening appears release yourself.
Good morning, SoE,
Catch 22, to take or not to take; statins and me have never agreed, so after trying four, i stopped taking them. Only borderline cholesterol anyway and i've bigger fish to fry.
Presently reviewing all data and patients experiences i can find about a new drug for fibrosis; CH docs want me to begin, but it comes with side-effects i'm not looking forward to, plus potential liver damage; however, it's one of two drugs going that may slow the progression of the disease. Cost more than 100 grand a year and that bothers me as well.
Daily, i take a mixture of prescribed and natural products like turmeric, hoping, i guess, to strike a good balance.
Diet science is so complex, but i do cook from scratch and my blood-work is most always perfect and blood pressure is that of an athlete, damn the lung diseases.
I am fortunate to have access to the best of modern medicine at CH and Duke, sadly, that ain't the case for millions or in regions of the country.
Thanks for bringing good topics to Fridays, always enjoy; have a good one.
Hard choices to make.
Both fibrotic meds have been used over 2 years in clinical practice which is good. Better info to look at for evaluation. I was surprised by the high discontinue rate in this 2 year retrospective study. Cost is part of the reason. The side effect profile is different for each drug while effectiveness rate is similar, so matching potential problems with an individual is more crucial. You don't need to answer to me, but is the choice of one drug based on side effect profile or studies, publications your physician team is involved?
There are so few effective medical treatments one ends up trying to control as much of the environment, exercises and diet as possible. My dad had fibrotic pulmonary diagnosis and severe cardiac problems familiar with navigating the issues. Low salt diet (less than 600 mg/d) gave him biggest bang for effort. Modified many recipes. My sister has life long allergies effecting her breathing and avoidance of a certain level of exposure has been most effective for her. Her food tolerance adjusts with the natural pollen count and mold levels with the different seasons. To know if diet is helping select one area to try for a couple of months to evaluate for effectiveness. Then abandon if no difference and try another. If effective add other to evaluate if additional improvement can be achieved with other dietary changes.
Still yourself, deep water can absorb many disturbances with minimal reaction.
--When the opening appears release yourself.
Thanks!
Interesting. Maybe comment more later.
Marilyn
"Make dirt, not war." eyo
Time to write can be a little hard to find in our busy lives.
thanks for taking the time to say hi.
Still yourself, deep water can absorb many disturbances with minimal reaction.
--When the opening appears release yourself.
Statins
Since I started taking them I have had depression, memory loss and most recently homicidal road rage. The depression was partly cured by CoQ10. My daughter sent me an article from AARP re statins and memory loss. Wonder why my neurologist that I consulted about the memory loss didn't warn me.
Most chilling are the desire to kill some idiot who cuts me off or dawdles in traffic. Anger, yes, but I never before felt like killing someone.
I never even had high cholesterol! It was like taking blood thinners just because I'm old. Landed in the hospital after hemorrhaging so bad that I passed out. Blood pouring from my nose like a faucet. That was years ago. I just went over the papers while cleaning out old papers. $7,700 for the hospital. I paid $1200. My village absorbed the ambulance/rescue squad charges. All from baby aspirin. Didn't even have thick blood to start with. "Prevention." That's a laugh.
I read Lookout's articles with great interest. I think she is on to something. I should emulate my peasant ancestors. Worked hard at physical labor, mostly outside. Ate simple locally grown food and drank red wine with every evening meal. All )from the records I've found) lived longer than the average American despite lack of medical care and a ton of babies. (Babies didn't fair so well, but adults were hard as rocks once they survived childhood.)
I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.
Looking backward can give us clues
A few avid genealogists in the family create some interesting holiday discussions. Except for infectious diseases, accidents and toxin exposure surprising number of 80 and 90 year olds in past few hundred years. I am focusing on avoiding those three and not creating an opportunity for a medical misadventure.
Lookout has gathered some good info. Also take a look at the link provided by Roy Blakeley as followup comment a little later in the day.
Still yourself, deep water can absorb many disturbances with minimal reaction.
--When the opening appears release yourself.
Ban Plastic NOW and for good - I ran into this article
and think I should go to the beach and help to clean up the mess and make sure Tulsi gets behind the issue and talks about it. I need to do something with my life. Darn it.
Welcome to Hawaii's 'plastic beach': ground zero of a pollution crisis
Plastic trash
Thanks for this article. Was just visiting the island of Oahu and this article did a good job of explaining the issue. We did a beach cleanup one morning after a night of wind and rain and beach was covered with trash and Portuguese man'o war that had blown in. We collected five bags but two days later same situatio.
Time to be aware of my own plastic use.
Life is what you make it, so make it something worthwhile.
This ain't no dress rehearsal!
So good on you for doing this, I hope
you had a good time in HI and had a bit of relief from the disturbing news. On Maui there is always a wind, that helps to blow away that what clouds our minds so often these days.
Here in Germany you seldom find larger food stores, where you can buy vegetables and fruits and meat unwrapped and not boxed into a plastic container. Everything is transported from all the EU and ME countries via truck and/or plane. Very little locally grown stuff, though more and more little stores open up, as the awareness in the population is there. The stores charge for plastic bags, but still not enough to force the majority of customers not to use them.So I am for banning their usage.
Be well, I always enjoy your comments and hope you stay put on C99p and visit every so often. May the winds blow in your back.
I can't get the wind out of my mind. The wind of change that brings us hope too.
[video:https://youtu.be/n4RjJKxsamQ]
So having a European “common market” proved destructive of
what was local and regional, instead favoring plastic-packed mass factory production, fossil-fuel intensive truck transport, and border criss-crossing continental supply chains.
Putting economic growth and economists in the driver’s seat turned out to be — second only to war — the worst danger to humanity and indeed all life on earth?
The German Greens just celebrated their 40th “birthday” (40th anniversary of the conference that founded the national party). Thinking they were the answer and antidote, I was a supporter from the beginning and an official member for many years. But now they too are so much part and parcel of the establishment . . .
https://taz.de/#!g5655037/
Trash on the beaches where we play
seems to be increasing the awareness of the disposal problem of plastics. Buried in a landfill or burnt it is easier to ignore. The 2017 top 10 list of beach clean-up were all plastic for the first time.
1) Cigarette butts. 2) food wrappers, 3) plastic beverage bottles, 4) plastic beverage caps, 5) plastic grocery bags, 6) other plastic bags, 7) straws and stirrers, 8) plastic take away containers, 9) plastic lids and 10) foam take out containers.
Thanks for reminding us to be aware of our personal use.
Still yourself, deep water can absorb many disturbances with minimal reaction.
--When the opening appears release yourself.
We can start in our own homes with microplastic.
Start replacing all washable fabrics - sheets, bedding, clothes and cleaning material made with plastics (Nylon, polyester, acrylic and spandex) with natural plant and animal fiber which have a natural decomposition cycle.
Thanks for the Hawaii Link
Every washer load we run with synthetic fiber sends microfiber to somewhere in the environment.
Still yourself, deep water can absorb many disturbances with minimal reaction.
--When the opening appears release yourself.
A year ago my friend started crocheting
a couple different size dishwashing cloths, from 2 different weights of cotton. I have used them for washing dishes, counters, bathroom, anything you use a cloth for cleaning. They easily have lasted the year, and probably have another year (at least) of strength. They keep their form and the smaller, thinner one is perfect for washing drinking glasses. Plus, they are so comfortable in the hand! Give them a try, you crocheters. Maybe you can even find them in shops.
I received my first knitted set from a friend
They are good projects for a beginner to learn a new skill. If someone wants to buy Etsy.com different crafters has a good selection or check out you next local craft show.
Still yourself, deep water can absorb many disturbances with minimal reaction.
--When the opening appears release yourself.
Good morning soe, thanks for the column information and
viewpoint, especially the following:
Statins are all the rage now and that will probably be the case until they are all off patent. The worse thing is that there are established preventative medicine paradigms that verge on mysticism and pseudoscience such as "cholesterol balancing". That particular nuance can get oxymoronic and doesn't seem to be backed by good evidence. The idea is that "good cholesterol" must be above a certain level, regardless of how low total cholesterol is, else statins are required. Obviously, there is a total cholesterol level such that this "blalancing" minimum level cannot be reached; any time that good+bad is less than the minimum required good, and, realistically any time good + bad is significantly low.
I've been hassling with my gp over this. They can look at a borderline blood test and declare that statins are clearly needed when they think the patient isn't taking any, and then look at the same test results and declare them to be ok if they think the patient is on them - I have personally seen that happen.
Thanks again and have a good one.
edited to remove less than symbol that rendered following text invisible.
That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --
Physicians and medical facilities are graded
on what percentage of patients are on drugs (treatments) based on protocols, which are in many software systems as a prompt. Using data patient specific data such as hospitalization, number of acute events or worsening conditions are generally not used in grading quality of care. The data would negatively impact healthcare providers quality status due to uncompliant or fragile patients. Grading can effect financial reimbursement from insurance companies.
This is a different incentive than those provided by pharmaceutical companies.
Your are going to keep hassling with your GP.
Still yourself, deep water can absorb many disturbances with minimal reaction.
--When the opening appears release yourself.
My plan was to accept the statin drug
and throw it away. But my wife trusts our doctor. She is a pretty food doctor, personal doctor to my grandson's pediatrician. But she is a pill-pusher. And large doese right away.
I don't want any of it since two different Chinese 'sartans that I took successively were pulled for contamination with carcinogens.
I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.
many thanks soe
you have a nice blending of east and west
ways of dealing with infirmary
forgetting the mfa argument for a moment
responsibility is becoming
more a matter of personal education
which stands out in your essay
health to us
heal the planet
Thanks for the message
could not say it better
Still yourself, deep water can absorb many disturbances with minimal reaction.
--When the opening appears release yourself.
Thank you SoE
I always find the subject of your essays interesting and informative. The comments of others, and your responses always expand the knowledge about the subject in engaging ways.
Thank you We are fortunate to have
so many individuals willing to share their ideas, thoughts and questions.
Still yourself, deep water can absorb many disturbances with minimal reaction.
--When the opening appears release yourself.
I am either lucky or uninformed.
I take no daily maintenance meds. I take them for a situation, such as sinus infection, damn poisonous snake bite, etc...
When looking at the side effects of any prescription medicine, there is this side effect that can occur 1% of the time.
That is always me.
Always.
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981
You are fortunate
to have only needed episodic treatments for acute events. Do excel in unusual stories. The snake bit was quite an event. I am hoping it is all resolved and no lingering effects.
Still yourself, deep water can absorb many disturbances with minimal reaction.
--When the opening appears release yourself.
My feet are no longer
the same shape, so finding shoes that have sufficient room for the slightly enlarged instep has been interesting. I have maybe 6 pairs of shoes out of 40 pairs that I can wear. It was interesting to pick a jury, have a trial while wearing cheap plastic sandals.
Otherwise, it is all good.
Thanks for asking.
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981
Suggestion for footware
these shoes work for a high instep problem. The tie is decorative and can be removed. Will take a polish shine and if desired add a decorative by clip or glue to change the look like a no heeled pump.
Still yourself, deep water can absorb many disturbances with minimal reaction.
--When the opening appears release yourself.
How cool!
I will check some out!
Thanks!
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981
Two writers who have come to believe similar diet information
are Sally Fallon
Nourishing Traditions
Whose introduction is a condensed review and critique of the longitudinal study of thousands of nurses. The highlight is the cherry picking the diet recommendations related to 'fat in, fat on' which became American themes.
Another writer is Paul Jaminet, a physicists, and his wife Chou-Jing Jaminet, a cancer researcher. Together they wrote and blogged about The Perfect Health Diet.
The beauty of this diet is that things we are finally hearing a lot are repeated: no sugar, no gluten, good oils and fats. Best of all: no portion control. Weight dropping without trying; increased energy; definitely better health are all a result of diet changes.
The Jaminets have become fans of the eight hour window on eating and the rest fasting also.
These writers got together and agreed that although they arrived from different starting points, they agreed on most approaches in common.
A society grows great when old men plant trees in whose shade they know they shall never sit. Allegedly Greek, but more possibly fairly modern quote.
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The cyle of information
Beginning in the 19th century science was used to discredit traditional diets. During which most dietary traditions were altered or destroyed. Corporations gained control of most steps in food production. The same body of scientific research is being used to support traditional diets and allocation of food types for regular consumption.
Still yourself, deep water can absorb many disturbances with minimal reaction.
--When the opening appears release yourself.