HRC to flash her fangs

CNN's reporter covering the Clinton campaign just reported that the campaign intends to go full negative on Sen. Sanders regarding his "gun record." As the reporter put it, the Clinton camp is tired of messing around with Bernie and is ready to assault him on this issue in order to lock up the nomination, and will worry about uniting the party later.

A couple problems I see with this strategy:

1) I doubt it will be easy to paint the senator as a frothing gun-rights activist. He seems more middle of the road, which is defensible given his current constituency. Even the Sandy Hook story currently making the rounds, where he's being vilified for saying gun manufacturers shouldn't be sued, is defensible. After all, when's the last time an auto manufacturer was sued because a drunk driver (or a road rager) injured someone? (Personally, I'm all for strict gun laws. I've never owned one and never will. I think the world would be a better place without them. But I also have lots of friends and family who love to hunt. A few shoot competitively. One collects guns for their historical value. Absolutely none of them talk about "tactical" situations where they'd have to take up arms against another human being. I have a difficult time telling non-crazy people they shouldn't be able to enjoy those pursuits.) Anyway, I don't see this as an effective strategy for peeling away support from Sen. Sanders.

2) Attacks on Bernie tend to fire up his base, broaden his support and increase the flow of donations to his campaign.

3) There's already a tremendous lack of enthusiasm about HRC as a candidate. I believe the percentage of Wisconsin Democrats who voted tonight that said they were "excited" about voting for Hillary was in the single digits. What little enthusiasm there is for her will evaporate if she goes negative.

4) There will be no uniting the Democratic Party later. My guess at this point is that 10-15% of normally engaged Democratic voters simply will not vote for Hillary under any circumstances. That number will skyrocket if they attack Bernie.

I'm in my mid 50s. This is the first (and maybe the last) opportunity I'll have to vote for a candidate who does more than pay lip service to the issues that are not only vitally important to me, but to the future of humanity. The establishment (including corporate media) has done everything possible to marginalize Bernie's campaign. The Democratic Party did everything it could to hand the nomination to HRC. As a result, it's going to take a near miracle for Bernie to prevail.

There's only one reason I'm still holding out hope. Namely, his opponent is HRC and the Clinton machine, and boneheaded moves like this help keep the door propped open.

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Bisbonian's picture

The worlds biggest arms dealer hitting on Bernie about guns.

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"I’m a human being, first and foremost, and as such I’m for whoever and whatever benefits humanity as a whole.” —Malcolm X

Didn't even consider that point of view.

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"The real power is in the hands of small groups of people and I don't think they have titles. -- Bob Dylan"

Hillary is the candidate of the war machine: www.huffingtonpost.com/...

What Hillary Clinton wants you to forget: her disastrous record as a war hawk: www.salon.com/

Clinton tops list of arms company donations: www.telesurtv.net/...

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"It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society." --Jiddu Krishnamurti

lunachickie's picture

for Clinton due to that. Will it hurt her? Probably not with a lot of Dems (and certainly with none of her hardcore supporters). It's hard to tell in a bigger picture, but there are a lot of indies and GOP who will reject any 'control' stance out of hand. So what does that do, exactly? Sanders appeals to those same indies and GOP with his current stance.

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stevej's picture

is that she'll need to peel off a proportion of the pro 2A votes in the general if she is to stand any chance of winning. Her usual 180 flip flop will not work - she will be crucified.

This means that her campaign are really worried. I suspect they have some really nasty (for them) internal polling out of NY and or they really are worried about the loser narrative developing after only winning three counties in the last four primaries and caucuses.

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“To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize.” -Voltaire

as you're killing children in other countries. Anyway, she's going to "bare her fangs"? What, and start lying about Bernie's record? In the words of the late, great Yogi Berra, "It's like déjà vu all over again."

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detroitmechworks's picture

Seeing as she didn't feel the need to bring up any of the gun massacres that went down during her husband's watch.

Columbine anyone?

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I do not pretend I know what I do not know.

Thank you for saying this. Should the women, children, families bombed with weaponized aircraft sue Boeing, Hillary? Her posture of concern for the US families exposes and epitomizes the unconscious but horrible privileged assumption that US lives matter and others are just collateral damage. If you want gun contol then tell Hillary to stop selling weapons! Tell the clinton foundation to stop taking donations from weapon makers. Bernie cares about all families, all children. I hope we can spread this counter point to her attack around and Bernie can use it in the debate.its a good one.

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Pricknick's picture

it's going to take a near miracle for Bernie to prevail.

It's going to take votes. Quit hoping and try believing.

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Regardless of the path in life I chose, I realize it's always forward, never straight.

Galtisalie's picture

It shows fear, and it destroys their argument that Sanders is being a meany/negative-toner. I'm starting to think that Sanders really could do this. We have to realize Clinton is not credible too. So her attacks are discounted and her being ugly is the worst thing she could do. So have at it.

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I can easily see this blowing up in their faces.

And yes, I think "Sanders really could do this," too. I just find it remarkable that the Clinton camp seems intent on making that more likely. They haven't yet realized that all of a sudden, a large swath of the electorate ain't swallowing the same old bullshit.

And Wolf Blitzer just quoted the original report: They intend to "disqualify and defeat" Bernie.

Oh, and one more thing: When's the last time HRC mentioned African Americans after voting ended in the south?

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"The real power is in the hands of small groups of people and I don't think they have titles. -- Bob Dylan"

Bisbonian's picture

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"I’m a human being, first and foremost, and as such I’m for whoever and whatever benefits humanity as a whole.” —Malcolm X

snoopydawg's picture

Who have been kicked off SNAP this month because of what was written in the welfare reform bill?

I would like Bernie to talk about this soon too. He came out strongly against the welfare reform bill and he could point out that this is the consequences of the bill.

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Which AIPAC/MIC/pharma/bank bought politician are you going to vote for? Don’t be surprised when nothing changes.

Or even ties in earned delegate count - watch out.

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Democrats, we tried to warn you. How is that guilt and shame working out?

Miep's picture

Independent voters are likely to understand rudimentary things such as the right to bear arms, and also the difference between manufacturing guns and licensing people to carry them.

I have never owned a gun in my life and I can easily see how pointless it would be to sue gun manufacturers. They don't pretend guns can't kill people. There is no fraud to address there. I gather this is some sort of comparison to suits filed against tobacco companies? There is nothing in the Constitution about the right to smoke tobacco.

If that's the best they can come up with, wow. Weak. Easy to attack from all sorts of different directions. And even under the best of circumstances this is a difficult debate.

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Stay on track. Stay in lane. Don't throw rocks.

SnappleBC's picture

I'm an independent. I've never owned a gun and don't want to. But as I understand the issues Bernie's gun record is fine by my lights. Who knows? Maybe that D- grade he gets from the NRA is enough to whip Democrats into a frothing hatred but I doubt it.

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A lot of wanderers in the U.S. political desert recognize that all the duopoly has to offer is a choice of mirages. Come, let us trudge towards empty expanse of sand #1, littered with the bleached bones of Deaniacs and Hope and Changers.
-- lotlizard

Smacks of desperation. Think they're not liking what they see in their New York polls?

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"The real power is in the hands of small groups of people and I don't think they have titles. -- Bob Dylan"

Steven D's picture

May help her in some demo groups among Registered Dems.

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"You can't just leave those who created the problem in charge of the solution."---Tyree Scott

Leema's picture

And that may not bode well for Bernie. We shall see. (registration as a Dem had to be done last Oct I think...long way out before we knew he would do this well)

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When wealth rules, democracy dies.

So her constantly bringing up his Brady Bill votes, PLCAA vote, 'Charleston Loophole', and repeatedly reciting gun death statistics was just her way of playing nice before? The gloves are now coming off? Perhaps she would be so kind as to explain her cluster bomb vote and Saudi Arabian arms sale, as they have recently been dropping said cluster bombs onto Yemeni cities and villages.

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Bisbonian's picture

Keep pointing out what she would like to hide.

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"I’m a human being, first and foremost, and as such I’m for whoever and whatever benefits humanity as a whole.” —Malcolm X

WindDancer13's picture

that I am re-purposing for here. I should have it up by tomorrow/today with a couple of additions.

From my research (I am still double checking it), the wording that created the "Charleston Loophole" was built into the Brady Bill. She probably knows this even as she attacks Sanders for voting for the loophole while yelling that he voted five times against the Brady Bill. Nobody, but especially the media, has bothered to check her on this.

I also need to go find the reference and reasons behind why Obama called her Annie Oakley.

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We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit.--Aristotle
If there is no struggle there is no progress.--Frederick Douglass

Obama found Clinton's pro-gun stance amusing, likening her to Annie Oakley: http://www.nbcnews.com/id/24082427/ns/politics-decision_08/t/obama-hits-...

...
Finally, in the April 2008 primary debate with Obama, the former New York senator seemed to the right of Bernie Sanders on "blanket" federal legislation on guns:

Clinton: What I favor is what works in New York. You know, we have a set of rules in New York City, and we have a totally different set of rules in the rest of the state. What might work in New York City is certainly not going to work in Montana.

So for the federal government to be having any kind of, you know, blanket rules that they're going to try to impose I think doesn't make sense.

[ABC News moderator George] Stephanopoulos: But, Senator, you were for that when you ran for Senate in New York.

Clinton: I was for the New York rules; that's right. I was for the New York rules, because they have worked over time. And there isn't a lot uproar in New York about changing them, because I go to upstate New York, where we have a lot of hunters and people who are collectors and people who are sport shooters. They have every reason to believe that their rights are being respected

http://thehill.com/blogs/pundits-blog/presidential-campaign/266412-befor...

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WindDancer13's picture

Since I had already written the first article for TOP and was just planning to clean it up and add a few details, this project has grown the more I look into it. Those links are going to be very helpful in what will probably end up being Part 2.

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We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit.--Aristotle
If there is no struggle there is no progress.--Frederick Douglass

GreyWolf's picture

"... saying gun manufacturers shouldn't be sued, is defensible. After all, when's the last time an auto manufacturer was sued because a drunk driver (or a road rager) injured someone?"

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Alison Wunderland's picture

Second-Amendment Democrat. Owned plenty of guns, still do. Crazy as a Loon but so thoroughly anti-social no one needs to fear me going postal. (What would be the point?)

But I can see an attack re. 1) as A. a negative for gun-owners, and B. an influencing factor for Bernie-leaners.

This will not turnout well for her.

The woman's as crazy as a shithouse rat. Anyone's who's ever seen one knows she's just going to get more dangerous as time goes by.

Afterthought re. image: She doesn't do sweet-face when she goes on the attack. And that doesn't play well to the cameras.

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Miep's picture

And she's going to bring up gun legislation from a strong anti-gun standpoint?

The hypocrisy is obvious to anyone paying attention to her good work internationally, but beyond that: she can't campaign worth beans. She's no good at it. She keeps coming off as not liking people, and whoever is advising her is a terrible strategist.

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Stay on track. Stay in lane. Don't throw rocks.

Alison Wunderland's picture

It's like she doesn't have anything to put forward that doesn't make her look like Attila the Hun's sister, so she has try to find an instance when Bernie farted in an elevator a couple of decades ago, and turn that into a crime against humanity.

Well, the clock's running out and she's going to find less and less room to maneuver. Good. She's bound to go into Wicked Witch of the West sooner or later.

As for the campaign staff, seems like she's surrounded herself with yes-girls with little or no real-world experience. But that could just be a gut reaction. I try to avoid deviant pr0n.

And Bill. Shudder. God help she should win. That's be like Ma & Pa Barker in the White House.

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She has an issue where she can run to the LEFT of Bernie and she is hoping that it brings younger voters into the fold. Assuming that it has a snow-balls chance in Hell of working, it means that she is extremely vulnerable on this issue in the General Election. It is a move of desperation.

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Democrats, we tried to warn you. How is that guilt and shame working out?

Miep's picture

Her lack of understanding of the issue. The left is not uniformly anti-gun at all. It is more of a liberal stance, but even there, there is some division. It is a real hot potato, overall, the gun discussion. (I personally believe this is resultant from a refusal to address the fact that living in a murderous culture makes more people murderous, though clearly there are some problems with kids failing to understand death and having access.)

People are probably most uniform about *some* restrictions on ownership, as opposed to a complete free for all, but I still can't see what this has to do with manufacturers. At that level, it's about sales.

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Stay on track. Stay in lane. Don't throw rocks.

Suing the gun manufacturers is a strategy of total war against guns and is akin to the RW tactic of "improving safety" at abortion clinics. Both are extremely immoderate positions trying to hide behind a fig leaf.

If it comes up, Sanders ought to turn it around and ask Clinton if she is in favor of allowing suits against the manufacturers knowing that it would effectively end all gun manufacture and sales in the country? Clinton will either have to duck the question, agree with Sanders, or seriously increase RW turnout. It would be an amusing one for one of the moderators to put to her.

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PastorAgnostic's picture

A. If one pill makes you larger, does that mean that the Wabbit will shit white chocolate eggs?

B. If the latest adult coloring books don't have adult images, why?

C. If your wedding anniversary is on February 30th, can you get away without ever buying a gift?

D. Now that Tennessee has adopted the bible as the State Book, will its legislators finally learn how to read?

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Miep's picture

Yes, that would be exactly the right response, to just amplify it right back at her.

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Stay on track. Stay in lane. Don't throw rocks.

Take the glove off and start jabbing that finger. It worked so well with the green peace lady.

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“The longer we dwell on our misfortunes, the greater is their power to harm us”
― Voltaire

prfb's picture

She has iron control and message discipline MOST of the time - but the slips in that mask give a lot of people the willies. I think people catch in HRC a glimpse of the most peevish, irritable, and hectoring grade-school teacher they ever had and hated, back when they just had to hang their heads and take it. Not fair, but...

The use of that voice is her choice.

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The 'Green Peace Incident' didn't ever happen. However, it is all over social media. Which again shows the disconnect between the establishment and the rest of us.

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Democrats, we tried to warn you. How is that guilt and shame working out?

PennBrian's picture

I think I did see the Greenpeace stuff brought up on several MSM sites. They try to ignore her failings but that one was such a whopper they couldn't hide it, lol. Now she vows to destroy the party and worry about the damage later. Great candidate.

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Mark from Queens's picture

Really great piece linked by Joe Shikspack today, "Gaius Publius: Will Sanders Play His Ace?". The long comment thread is excellent and in-depth too.

Not sure of the veracity of this, but found it at TOP and got me thinking:

"There are 72 counties in Wisconsin. Clinton is winning in 4 (mostly by small margins) whereas Sanders is winning 63 and has already won 5, many by yuuuuuuuge margins.

In other words, Sanders is poised to win 94% (68/72) of the counties."

So that means, of the four last primaries, Bernie has absolutely obliterated her in counties/precincts voting. Literally wiped her off the map in those three on the West Coast, and tonight was another unbelievable trouncing.

These are Democratic states.

It's going to be fascinating to see what happens. He's romping now with some serious momentum and they have to be starting to panic. In NY, she draws 300 to a college and 50 of those in attendance turn out to be protesters who chant "If she wins, we lose," while Bernie draws the most amazing massive crowd of diversity in the S. Bronx exceeding 20,000 people.

With the #PanamaPapers getting ready to bring corporate malfeasance, Wall St tax criminality and 1% tax evasion back to the fore she's going to have her back to the wall fast. And that's when she starts making big mistakes, like she did all week (most notably her ugly meltdown with the Greenpeace activist).

We need all hands on deck to turn NY into a one helluva of a great upset.

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"If I should ever die, God forbid, let this be my epitaph:

THE ONLY PROOF HE NEEDED
FOR THE EXISTENCE OF GOD
WAS MUSIC"

- Kurt Vonnegut

Miep's picture

Really, what we should be asking ourselves is why people are still supporting Clinton. Habit?

Sanders is very, very good at this and he's clearly very clean. This is all so surreal, this business of Clintons. I keep thinking the hook should come out and pull them off the stage.

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Stay on track. Stay in lane. Don't throw rocks.

Alison Wunderland's picture

A lot of people wouldn't give a shit about politics if you dragged them through it. It's like discussing trigonometry. Boooo-ring.

As long as they can pay the mortgage, don't have a major medical catastrophe, and get the kids to school on time, it's all just sort of "dirty". "They all do it. But we've been Ds for generations, so we'll continue to be Ds, and on the way back from the super' I'll stop in and pull the D lever."

Just because Sanders is an Independent, doesn't mean he hasn't been navigating his way through the Halls of Shit for decades. If anything, it has to take even more savvy and chutzpah not to climb on one of the Party wagons and not get sucked into the machine.

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we owe that man a yuge debt of gratitude. For doing this, putting himself out there, being willing to take the ridicule day after day after day, and at 73 years old, when most of us would probably be more than happy to retire and try to enjoy what time we have left. He's an amazing person to even do this. And the fact that he's stayed clean all these years, damned hard to imagine what it takes to do that amid all the ugliness and all that dirty money floating around.

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Only a fool lets someone else tell him who his enemy is. Assata Shakur

boing boing's picture

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snoopydawg's picture

To hit her back with. As has been mentioned, there's her pay to play weapons sales that saw millions of dollars go in to her foundation after her state department sold foreign countries weapons and then the government would donate millions. Plus they would first pay Bill to give a speech before she swooped in.
He could also bring up the Clinton doctrine
in regards to the regime change in Libya.

Then there's her proclivity for regime change going back decades.
This is a great article that discusses a book called
Hillary Clinton Queen of Chaos and the threat of World War 3
http://www.counterpunch.org/2016/03/10/hillary-clinton-the-queen-of-chao...

Diana Johnstone: Libya, in a word. Hillary Clinton was so proud of her major role in instigating the war against Libya that she and her advisors initially planned to use it as basis of a “Clinton doctrine”, meaning a “smart power” regime change strategy, as a presidential campaign slogan.

And this article shows all the military interventions she has been in favor of
http://www.empireslayer.org/2013/11/hilary-clinton-pro-war-and-imperiali...

This is what I don't understand about both Obama's and Hillary's supporters on TOP. Remember when Bush was invading and bombing other countries, the people there were against it, but once Obama became Bush on steroids when it comes to continuing PNAC's goals in the Middle East, the site went quiet.

So come on Bernie, take off your gloves. We will be behind you.

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Which AIPAC/MIC/pharma/bank bought politician are you going to vote for? Don’t be surprised when nothing changes.

snoopydawg's picture

She was told to keep her foundation separate from her duties as SOS. She told Obama that she would comply with that.
Why the hell Obama didn't step in and put a stop to that? Is he that beholden to the Clintons?
Gawd, I don't want those two any where near to the White House.
They have done enough damage to this country already.

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Which AIPAC/MIC/pharma/bank bought politician are you going to vote for? Don’t be surprised when nothing changes.

Making Hillary SOS was a disaster, and Obama had to know this. She is a neocon war hawk through and through. Arming the "rebels" in Syria, moving weapons and money through Turkey, arming the most dangerous regimes on the planet, like Saudi Arabia (where all of the ME extremism was born) and Turkey. She promoted the strategy of using questionable surrogates to create regime change where there were stable secular governments. She is in my opinion a war criminal. On top of that she is a grifter, extorting contributions from dangerous regimes for the family "foundation" in return for massive arms sales that she had to know would wind up in the hands of terrorist organizations. She is still insisting that Assad must go and wants a no-fly zone in Northern Syria, a direct confrontation with a nation that has 7000 nuclear warheads pointed at us. Her strategy in working with Russia: show Putin that we are tough and he will back down, seriously folks.

Obama must know this and if he really cares for his country he needs to make it extremely difficult for her to become POTUS.

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Capitalism has always been the rule of the people by the oligarchs. You only have two choices, eliminate them or restrict their power.

PastorAgnostic's picture

Libya
Syria
Ukraine
Turkey
Panama

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Honduras or Guatemala too?

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It has started already with help from Hillary's publisher friend:
https://twitter.com/JoshSchwerin/status/717508386359812096

With Clinton going negative, Bernie needs to come up with a response and a counter offensive if he wants to win New York and the nomination. Staying above the fray and talking issues will not be enough.

Unfortunately, negative campaigns work in New York. Bernie will have to counteract the attacks from Clinton and her allies and step up his truthful criticism of Clinton a few notches. Otherwise, it will be difficult to win in New York.

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Here's one example-and no one is outing them

"Chris Sosa wrote a piece for Salon entitled “I’m done with Bernie Sanders: Why this democratic socialist is voting for Hillary Clinton.” There is nothing unusual about people changing their political bents, especially in their youth. The problem? Its author, Chris Sosa, is a Clinton 08 campaign alum."

http://www.rimaregas.com/2016/04/salon-anti-berniesanders-piece-written-...

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Thanks for the heads-up on this one.

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"The real power is in the hands of small groups of people and I don't think they have titles. -- Bob Dylan"

A Fucking Liar.

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PastorAgnostic's picture

Which version of the OS was that? Remake Ver. 3.4?

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Lookout's picture

I'm curious to see how Democracy Spring and Democracy awakening effect to NY primary. Do you think they will help?

The release of the US portion of the Panama papers should also help

CfT3MEBWEAQwdp1.jpg large.jpg

And finally, like many of you, if they hit him on gun control I hope he educates people about her arms sales and foundation donations as SOS.

Thrilled about WI. Another gain of 10 or so delegates over Hillary. It's a slow go. Keep the faith. Keep working.

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“Until justice rolls down like water and righteousness like a mighty stream.”

detroitmechworks's picture

can tell the difference between a corporate slimebag and somebody voting on principle.

I may disagree with the person voting on principle, but I can respect them.
The Corporate slimebag I can only depend on to dance for their dollars.

I may want to prosecute gun manufacturers and arms dealers, but Hillary trying to cherry pick which of those to go after for political advantage just makes her look even more slimy.

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I do not pretend I know what I do not know.

And I think most of us get the distinction you make here about prosecuting them perfectly. They also have something like 70% of the total global market for weapons, so what in hell do they need to sell them here for? Politics, pure and simple. This country does not provide the bread and butter for the manufacturers who're part of the NRA, the whole globe does a much better job at providing them steak and lobster for fucks sake.

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Only a fool lets someone else tell him who his enemy is. Assata Shakur

stevej's picture

Team Clinton think that they can drive wedges on specific issues. They don't get that people like Sanders because they are confident that he won't say one thing in public then work towards the opposite behind closed doors. His supporters are grown up enough to know that there will always be differences.

(Reply meant for DMW)

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“To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize.” -Voltaire

gonzo1979's picture

They are conducting a full on media assault, Clinton News Network is hammering home "Bernie's Sandy Hook Shame", his "blunder" on how to break up the big banks, etc. They want us to care about party unity when it suits their needs, but it goes out the window if they are losing. The Clinton camp is giving us the gasoline and matches, as well as the justification, to burn this party to the fucking ground. My apologies for the vulgarity, I'm normally quiet and reserved, but this is getting out of hand. They see the movement gaining momentum and they feel it must be stopped. They seem very willing to throw Senator Sanders and any of his supporters under the bus for political expediency. Guns and gun control are not going to win this election, economic and social justice are the points we need to be hammering home.

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Myths and legends die hard in America--Hunter Thompson

late last night, that the crawl on the bottom of the CNN screen went back to showing the delegate count INCLUDING superdelegates?

That had been a no-no for several weeks. Guess they think HRC's story needs some buttressing.

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"The real power is in the hands of small groups of people and I don't think they have titles. -- Bob Dylan"

"While touting her gun control record and lambasting rival Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders’ firearm policy, Hillary Clinton keeps under wraps her heavy-handed involvement in the arms trade during her time as America’s top diplomat. Sanders, although never Secretary of State, hasn’t advocated for major arms deals between the U.S. and Saudi Arabia, or any other warmongering country for that matter.
According to an investigation by journalists David Sirota and Andrew Perez of the International Business Times, Clinton not only rubber-stamped major weapon deals with 20 countries that donated to her and her husband’s philanthropic arm, the Clinton Foundation, but also approved nearly double the amount of arms sales to those same 20 countries as the State Department of George W. Bush’s second term."

Maybe she shouldn't go there.

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'Well, I've wrestled with reality for thirty five years, Doctor, and I’m happy to state I finally won out over it." Elwood P. Dowd "

Thanks for pointing this out.

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"The real power is in the hands of small groups of people and I don't think they have titles. -- Bob Dylan"

Wherever you happen to fall on the control vs. unrestricted gun rights spectrum, you have to admit that the NRA's approach of no-compromise has been effective. Hillary and the pro-choice movement should have taken tips from this NRA stance. We are seeing women's choice eroded all over the country. Hillary's suggestions that we make abortion's "rare", that restrictions on late term abortion is okay as long as the life of the mother is considered, and her latest reference to a fetus as an unborn person all server to undermine women's rights.

She is a disaster. Watch her walk back her gun control stance should she secure the nomination.

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If you don't know what you want, you deserve what you get.

"Former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton said on Tuesday that she believes women can be both feminists and “pro-life.”

When asked on “The View” whether it is possible to be both, the Democratic presidential candidate said “absolutely” and explained why she doesn’t think the two terms are mutually exclusive."
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/hillary-clinton-feminist-pro-life_us...

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My brain cells are exploding like microwave popcorn. What does she actually even stand for anymore?

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seefleur's picture

Hillary. And only Hillary.

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Think off-center.
George Carlin

For America is if it ain't broke, don't fix it. Trouble is, American democracy is a twisted wreck and needs a total overhaul.

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Some are anti second amendment entirely (@TOS they were getting a bit 'in your face' about it). At least i know there are plenty of Conservatives I can get in touch with at any time if the 'anti' crowd decides to go full repeal as some of the more rabid TOS'ers made their opinions quite clear.

And still others simply want existing laws actually enforced and loopholes for access closed so that everyone follows the same path to gun purchase/ownership.

For people like me, and there are plenty I am sure, opening up on Sanders in this manner simply won't do any good. It doesn't make her more trustworthy, or more genuine either. She can't obtain these traits by being negative about Sanders.

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and knew I'd get slammed for it at that other place. Sure, if our government really wanted to, they could confiscate every single gun - we've seen Ferguson, we know what kind of equipment they have, it could be done. But it would take martial law and there sure as hell would be a bunch of hard core gun nuts ready to shoot their way out of it. In reality? Who in hell would pay the taxes it would take to confiscate every gun in this country? How would you even go about finding them all? Turn neighbor against neighbor? Without them being registered somewhere, even Big Brother at the NSA would have a hard time finding all of them. It simply is not realistic to think it would ever be declared, to use their "realism" argument.

So then you're right back to the point you make - enforce existing laws, enforce background checks and waiting periods, close the gun show loopholes... All the positions Sanders would agree with and work to implement, same as she might.

She can not do anything more than any of the rest of them could do even if they wanted to. To think otherwise, to vote based on who you think will stop the gun nuts in this country, makes about as much sense as voting for Donald Fucking Trump and his fever dreams of a wall. Puhlease....

I don't remember that much of the reaction at that other place, but I do remember not bothering to even argue further. They just want to think she can and would do more than Bernie, and that's all that matters, no real thought about it. And this is their "wedge" they think. As for her global arms sales, maybe they just don't really give a shit about that part of it? Who cares, those death's aren't ones we have to see up close and personal I guess.

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Only a fool lets someone else tell him who his enemy is. Assata Shakur

Raggedy Ann's picture

We already know, but it will be great to see it televised for all the world to see. She is that scorpion who wants a ride across the pond. Don't do it, Bernie - don't give her that ride!

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"The “jumpers” reminded us that one day we will all face only one choice and that is how we will die, not how we will live." Chris Hedges on 9/11

Jazzenterprises's picture

most people recoil.

Looking for the big 6-0 in unfavorability I see....

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Progressive to the bone.

orlbucfan's picture

Some wag in something I read recently called Hill "Shrill." Some troll gave me a bunch of stink calling her that at TOP. It's a very apt description of her voice when she's angry, stressed, and/or tired. I also read a comment that she acts like she doesn't have any common sense. That would appear to be the case here. Does she get the fact that the young folks don't pay much attention to the traditional media (cable and network TV) now? She starts spreading lies about the Bernster, and she will get her rear handed to her when NY votes. A lot of people love and respect Bernie cos he's a class act. He gets attacked, and his fans will get on the defensive to protect him.

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Inner and Outer Space: the Final Frontiers.