Give It Up For Robert Scheer: Russian Red Herring Hysteria Is A Dangerous Farce, And The Warmongering Democrats Need To Be Called On It.

Not many have chanced to stick their neck up and yell above the corporate calliope of the Russian Red Herring Circus Show. Add Scheer to a very exclusive roll call of truthtellers.

I found this at Truthdig yesterday (published on the 11th). Here's a link to the full text, and then some blockquote excerpts:

When Resistance Becomes Capitulation: A Response to an Open Letter in The Nation

What the statement’s opening paragraph woefully ignores is the harsh reality that the U.S. political system is far less vulnerable to hacking attacks from any foreign source than the rest of the world’s nations are from such attacks by the United States—including surveillance of world leaders, such as the Obama administration’s tapping of Angela Merkel’s personal cellphone. The NSA probably gets an alert every time Putin snores.

He then reels off a string of US interference in foreign elections, including our attempts to "to undermine Mikhail Gorbachev’s reform efforts that led to the coming to power of the ever-drunk Boris Yeltsin, who in desperation later picked Vladimir Putin to be his vice president and then to succeed him."

Yes, Putin—who had the startling virtue of being a teetotaler in a nation drowning in vodka even more than in crony socialism—was back then the preferred alternative frontman for the army of liberal American advisers preaching the virtues of a crony capitalism that savaged what remained of the Russian economy.

The rape of Russian resources by a new class of billionaires was an American export conflating virulent capitalism with freedom, and it proved once again to be the devil’s bargain. Most ordinary Russians seem to think that Putin has played that bad hand as well as could be expected.

He sharpens his point to harshly call out the feckless Democratic Party for their reckless red-baiting propaganda, their pathetic pandering and its ramifications.

Not so the ever-self-righteous leaders of the Democratic Party, who offer Putin-bashing as an alternative to coming to grips with their own failure to provide sound leadership to our country.

Instead of acknowledging their own responsibility for the angst in America, the Democrats have countered the demagogue in chief’s long list of scapegoats to blame for our problems, beginning with immigrants, with an even more absurd and much shorter “list” of their own: Putin did it!

Thus was born the red-baiting revival of the Cold War—but without a Red to attack, desperately offering up Putin, a born-again Russian Orthodox and Peter the Great clone, to explain away the Democratic leadership’s own well-deserved repudiation in the last election. Trump ruthlessly exploited the pain in America; the Clintonistas blindly ignored it. End of story.

Except it isn’t. The Democrats are now the party of warmongers, and no clearer evidence is needed than the tweet from their Senate leader, Charles Schumer, issued as Donald Trump was en route for his eventual meeting with Putin, saying Trump “is more loyal to President Putin than to our NATO allies … his duty is to protect the American people from foreign threats, not to sell out our democracy to Putin.” This is bizarre behavior on the part of the top Democrat in the Senate and reason enough never to trust the Democrats to be a “lesser evil” restraining force.

The Democratic Party should be absolutely shredded by sane citizens for its dangerous and reckless attempt to run cover for $hills' self-serving, arrogant losing campaign. I keep wondering how mainstream history will recall this menacing joke years from now.

Yes, it is a wickedly dangerous development when these enablers of the unleashing of Wall Street greed and the wild neocon and neoliberal schemes for worldwide regime change now blame Putin for our nation’s political instability...Once again, Democratic Party “resistance” will prove to be abject capitulation.

Included at the end of the piece is the Nation's "open letter signed by multiple scholars, diplomats, politicians, writers and activists calling for 'secure elections and true national security.'”

But in the opening paragraph they blow it - even if their intentions are as good as they are - by even acknowledging the appearance of an inconsequential "interference," which comprised only a handful of folks with comparatively so little money and producing no discernible effect. Contrast this farcical accusation (that The Russians threw the election, or even helped, is a joke - "hacked" is an outright provable lie) with the CIA's litany of destruction of governments all over the world.

As lotlizard and CStMS were saying here, the farcical RussiaGate narrative has also been used as a blunt weapon in libeling and slandering people (i.e. Jill Stein, Glenn Greenwald, etc)

For posterity's sake, maybe we can use this thread space of this essay to fill in the rest of the roll call of those who have refused to take the bait and have instead stood up to call it out for the Clinton Cover Distraction bullshit that it is. As Bob Scheer has done just now in the Nation.

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Mark from Queens's picture

Thought this was a good one, and a reminder that we need to speak out and find and support our allies.

I'm not long for the night. Babies and all; sweltering, unrelenting heatwave in NYC that I always loathe and was out of the house last night to play a fundraiser in the name of a fellow musician who died while on tour last year when he was hit on the side of the road by a truck. I'm spent.

Will probably go back to my Aldous Huxley book, "After Many a Summer Dies the Swan," that I believe somebody here suggested. Check in when I can.

Greetings to you all.

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"If I should ever die, God forbid, let this be my epitaph:

THE ONLY PROOF HE NEEDED
FOR THE EXISTENCE OF GOD
WAS MUSIC"

- Kurt Vonnegut

and a half late-better than never, I suppose.
I'll go read it.

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Ya got to be a Spirit, cain't be no Ghost. . .

Explain Bldg #7. . .

@Tall Bald and Ugly but that 'letter's' first signature is Gloria Steinem?!? Where the Fuck does She get off when she basically cheerleader the rat bastard getting the goper nomination!
And Scheer was pretty tame, I thought. It's a start.

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Ya got to be a Spirit, cain't be no Ghost. . .

Explain Bldg #7. . .

Mark from Queens's picture

@Tall Bald and Ugly
But I'd bet he's been there from the start. Would be surprised if he wasn't.

Like it that he was compelled to not let this crap stand in the Nation.

Think it's important to respond regularly when stuff like this crops up. So few are doing it that it's noticeable.

Steinem. She really lost the plot. Has she tried to redeem herself? Seem to recall something or other.

Such an Upside Down epoch, of gargantuan propaganda proportions.

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"If I should ever die, God forbid, let this be my epitaph:

THE ONLY PROOF HE NEEDED
FOR THE EXISTENCE OF GOD
WAS MUSIC"

- Kurt Vonnegut

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@Mark from Queens She lost me for good when she made that comment about how women who vote for Bernie were only doing it because that's where the boys are, and they want to catch a man.

People, including Steinem, then said: "That was a *joke*! You just didn't get that that was a *joke*!"

But the point is that a feminist would never make that joke. And a person of integrity would not try to cover up such asshattery with the age-old deflection "I was kidding!" Ironically, that deflection is the one used over and over again in the 60s and 70s when feminists of the time got angry at bigoted sexist things that were said to them. "Oh, you're just taking all this *too seriously*."

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Actually, the issue at stake is patriotism. You must return to your world and put an end to the Commies. All it takes are a few good men.
--Q

Exit polls not involving George W. Bush or Hillary Clinton tend to be quite accurate.
--Doug Hatlem

Bob In Portland's picture

@Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal In 1967 Gloria Steinem admitted in a video interview (available on YouTube) and an interview with the New York Times that she had worked for the CIA. Her world travels to India indicate that her wanderlust may very well have been directed at government expense. She wasn't the only one to follow this path. Barack Obama's mother seems to have done an awful lot of traveling which some have suggested was done for government purposes. Yet another international wanderer was Lillian Murret, Lee Harvey Oswald's aunt who briefly cared for him as a child.

In the late fifties and early sixties there were "international youth festivals" for socially and politically active young people from around the world. For the CIA it was an opportunity to spy. Gloria Steinem headed a propaganda unit (which employed a young Cokie Roberts and her husband) which churned out pro-US propaganda. And although Steinem denied it she did file reports on various student leaders. Who did she file her reports to? CD Jackson (who, among other things, bought the Zapruder film and hid it from public view), international banker John J. McCloy (who sat at the Nuremberg Trials and later on the Warren Commission) and Samuel Walker (yes, that Walker family).

Then she was a Playboy bunny, working undercover to expose the Playboy clubs. Then she founded Ms. Magazine with the aid of Clay Felker, yet another person with CIA roots.

We can look at the list of signers to this document. How many have been used by the Deep State in their societal roles as thought leaders? Steinem, certainly. A study of Chomsky's writings on JFK is terribly inaccurate in favor of intelligence manipulations of JFK's life and death. Some have suggested that Chomsky may have had intelligence connections going back to his DOD-funded linguistic research. John Dean has long been suspected as being part of the intelligence web that brought down Nixon. He succeeded for a time in being a thought leader for the anti-Nixon "left". Daniel Ellsberg, who was puffed up by the press as being a heroic defender of truth, was actually working with the Phoenix Program in Vietnam (read Douglas Valentine's CIA AS ORGANIZED CRIME). Ellsberg is still a thought leader. Valerie Plame was the outed CIA agent who became a thought leader for the left as a result of skullduggery by Dubya's administration. The others? Maybe, maybe not. Just keep an eye on them.

Any collection of celebrities and public policy officials offering the public advice on anything is to be regarded with extreme caution, and when that collection is peppered with CIA agents and assets one should presume the opposite of what they are trying to sell.

Just saying.

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Bob In Portland's picture

@Bob In Portland here.

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Mark from Queens's picture

@Bob In Portland
Guess it's not surprising to contemplate the sprawl of it. But to hear of people like Ellsberg being operatives is unsettling.

Do you know the story about Kesey, who I believe Hunter Thompson felt betrayed by as another Left visionary gone to the Dark Side? Could have sworn that I read that from HST, but can't seem to find it online at the moment (maybe it's in my books, a good reminder that not everything is online, folks, though Google would like you to believe that). Heh. CIA Cleanse of the intertubes?

Seems to confirm the old political adage: everyone is for sale; though their prices vary.

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"If I should ever die, God forbid, let this be my epitaph:

THE ONLY PROOF HE NEEDED
FOR THE EXISTENCE OF GOD
WAS MUSIC"

- Kurt Vonnegut

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@Bob In Portland @Bob In Portland I, too, have heard that about Steinem. I didn't say it in my initial comment because I didn't have the facts; I had just heard it somewhere, and I didn't want to make such a claim based on hearsay. Thanks for chiming in with the actual facts and references to books and such. Smile

Not sure Plame and Steinem are interchangeable. It looks to me like Plame was an agent who was just doing her job--whatever that may have been, moral, neutral, or horrendous--and became a focus for the left only because the fucking Bush administration has the narcissism of a three-year-old child and threw a temper tantrum at her husband. I really doubt that Cheney and Libby's shenanigans happened in order to earn cred for Plame. I think they genuinely wanted to rub her husband's face in the dirt for calling them out on lies.

If she were a thought leader, I'd probably remember something she said.

As for Ellsberg, I'm of two minds. He never denied that he was part of the MIC. The question is, did he ever stop working for them?

For that matter, so is/was Snowden. In his case, I think the surface story is for reals because the MIC and its NATO overseas extensions threw a shitfit in European airspace trying to get at him.

EDIT: Oh, it looks like I said it anyway even though all I had was hearsay, just further down the thread. I guess at some point my ethics failed me, LOL.

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Actually, the issue at stake is patriotism. You must return to your world and put an end to the Commies. All it takes are a few good men.
--Q

Exit polls not involving George W. Bush or Hillary Clinton tend to be quite accurate.
--Doug Hatlem

Pluto's Republic's picture

@Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal

Had to LOL your internal dialogue on your edit:

Oh, it looks like I said it anyway even though all I had was hearsay, just further down the thread. I guess at some point my ethics failed me.

Artists, novelists, and culture-meisters are among the CIA's most valuable assets. Brainwashing inserted via these operatives can last a century.

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Human salvation lies in the hands of the creatively maladjusted.

— Martin Luther King

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@Tall Bald and Ugly I am more and more convinced that Steinem was actually a CIA plant to take control of as much of U.S. feminism as possible. In her old age, she has certainly been acting like it.

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Actually, the issue at stake is patriotism. You must return to your world and put an end to the Commies. All it takes are a few good men.
--Q

Exit polls not involving George W. Bush or Hillary Clinton tend to be quite accurate.
--Doug Hatlem

gulfgal98's picture

@Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal once CIA, Always CIA.

I think you are right.

Where were all these people when Hillary and her cabal were stealing and rigging the primaries?

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"I don't want to run the empire, I want to bring it down!" ~Dr. Cornel West

ggersh's picture

@gulfgal98

Where were all these people when Hillary and her cabal were stealing and rigging the primaries?

Busy keeping her outta jail?

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-07-14/majority-clinton-emails-funnel...

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tRump amerika's last president

voting in ameriKa is an illusion

I'm fairly sure that the R's have finally figured out
that the D's are no longer necessary

gulfgal98's picture

@ggersh with the Clintons and they know what the Clintons are capable of. They sold their souls a long time ago and there is no turning back for them.

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"I don't want to run the empire, I want to bring it down!" ~Dr. Cornel West

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@gulfgal98 Helping her, I guess. She was/is the CIA candidate.

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Actually, the issue at stake is patriotism. You must return to your world and put an end to the Commies. All it takes are a few good men.
--Q

Exit polls not involving George W. Bush or Hillary Clinton tend to be quite accurate.
--Doug Hatlem

Amanda Matthews's picture

@Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal

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I'm tired of this back-slapping "Isn't humanity neat?" bullshit. We're a virus with shoes, okay? That's all we are. - Bill Hicks

Politics is the entertainment branch of industry. - Frank Zappa

@Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal @Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal I was living in a very conservative, Republican voting town in the Mountain West in the early 1970s The FIRST ISSUE of Ms mag was available in that town on newsstands AND at the local public library. In among Time, Newsweek, Outdoor Life and the Farm Journal...was Ms. Now, I ask you, how did that happen.

Camille Paglia, of whom I an mostly not a fan, but when she condescends to commit mere reporting, as opposed to her usual pontificating BS, is worth reading, had an interesting article at Salon about the Steinem endorsement of Clinton and Paglia's memories of Steinem being inserted into the Feminist movement. She recalled that all of a sudden Steinem was appearing on TV as a "feminist leader" though Paglia and others who had been involved in the movement for some time had never heard of her. Steinem's assignment seems to have been to refocus attention of Feminists and women in general away from legal and institutional barriers to women's civil rights and towards abortion and other sexual issues, which were not threatening to the corporatocracy. I have read that some at least of the earlier 2nd wave Feminists opposed legalizing abortion because they feared such legalization would enable the exploitation of poor women by upper class men--not that upper class men have ever needed any encouragement in that direction.

I think to understand all this you have to go back to Betty Freidan. Now, it is easy to criticize Freidan, who was neither a great writer nor a great sociologist. BUT, young women like me who had been raised in just-be-nice WASP culture had no, nada, zilch understanding of how money, power and influence operate in the world, and Freidan, who was from a Jewish background, did understand such things and was willing to explain them. What Freidan helped many of us understand was that American women were being conned into spending our and our familys' wealth on consumerist ephemera. Remember, this was the 60s, when rents, utility costs and so on were not so ruinously high as they are now. A minority of women quickly realized that if you didn't buy the new fashions, cosmetics, matched furniture sets, etc., you had a lot of money left over--back then you did--which could be devoted to, say, your own business, college, which was still relatively cheap, technical training, pursuit of crafts and hobbies and so on. For example, the mid-20thC revival of quilting began about that time, as did various small group efforts to preserve historic garden plants. Not to mention the West Coast movement to improve American diet and cooking began around that time. Crafts and hobbies do involve some expense, but nothing compared to the new fashions every six months along with the suite of new cosmetics to go with the season's new colors which Women's mags. had very nearly convinced American women at all levels above abject poverty that they had to have to be respectable. So, I think Steinem was brought in to get American women spending again by diverting Feminist's attention to issues about sex, thereby making them both ridiculous and hated by religious conservatives.

I remember visiting my Grandmother, whom I loved more than any other relative, especially more than my own mother. Grammy had been watching Steinem et al on TV, where they were ubiquitous, and listening to their denunciation of women who remain housewives, and was very hurt by it. Now, Grammy was one of that generation of women, black, white and brown, whose daily heroism, I do not think the word unmerited, literally held their families together during the Depression while their husbands were seeking work. This generation of American women of all ethnicities and backgrounds cooked, baked, sewed, patched, mended, kept gardens, sent their kids to school, maybe with lettuce and mayonnaise sandwiches, washed clothing by hand if they had to and they have never received the praise they deserve. In my opinion. I have had no use for Steinem and cohorts since.

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Nastarana

Mark from Queens's picture

@Nastarana
Thanks for sharing.

A lot of what you say supports the assertions that Steinem was there to act as corporate face of feminism/tool of the CIA.

Your grandmother and women of that generation were heroic in ways. I often think of my own grandmother, who was a young woman during the Great Depression, and both her strong and anchoring role in her family and how she managed to, without making me, instill good practical values of conservation, ethics and frugality in me as a young boy, things I carry with me today.

David Foster Wallace talked about the great loss in this country of those stories of empathy and cooperation that brought out the best in humanity in helping one another when in real need.

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"If I should ever die, God forbid, let this be my epitaph:

THE ONLY PROOF HE NEEDED
FOR THE EXISTENCE OF GOD
WAS MUSIC"

- Kurt Vonnegut

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@Nastarana This is worthy of an actual essay.

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Actually, the issue at stake is patriotism. You must return to your world and put an end to the Commies. All it takes are a few good men.
--Q

Exit polls not involving George W. Bush or Hillary Clinton tend to be quite accurate.
--Doug Hatlem

indicative of their desperation

Stop the Destruction of the Earth.

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May we be united and strong -- laurel

Song of the lark's picture

Heh! Like I said more than two years ago the Russians are not our friends.

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Mark from Queens's picture

@Song of the lark @Song of the lark
But it really should to be clarified, if we're ever going to make progress in this world, the distinction that it's the Russian government, and not the people, who are the culprits.

Of course I know that's what you mean.

But for the average punter on the street, or MSDNC viewer or Fox News zombie, it's important to remind them, that whenever they're told of some strife, or potential trouble or something resulting in the war drums being pounded about some part of the world nobody here knows about, it's explicitly one government trying to get over on another government. For their own personal reasons, but usually or almost always driven by business interests who stand to benefit. Whereas the people themselves of both countries have no gripe with each other. They're being told by media to hate and fear the other.

Making that clear to people would be a great leap for humanity. Nationalism is the poison that war depends on.

Jack London's "Revolution":

They call themselves "comrades," these men, comrades in the socialist revolution. Nor is the word empty and meaningless, coined of mere lip service. It knits men together as brothers, as men should be knit together who stand shoulder to shoulder under the red banner of revolt.

This red banner, by the way, symbolizes the brotherhood of man, and does not symbolize the incendiarism that instantly connects itself with the red banner in the affrighted bourgeois mind.

The comradeship of the revolutionists is alive and warm. It passes over geographical lines, transcends race prejudice, and has even proved itself mightier than the Fourth of July, spread-eagle Americanism of our forefathers.

The French socialist workingmen and the German socialist workingmen forget Alsace and Lorraine, and, when war threatens, pass resolutions declaring that as workingmen and comrades they have no quarrel with each other. Only the other day, when Japan and Russia sprang at each other's throats, the revolutionists of Japan addressed the following message to the revolutionists of Russia: "Dear Comrades -- Your government and ours have recently plunged into war to carry out their imperialistic tendencies, but for us socialists there are no boundaries, race, country, or nationality. We are comrades, brothers and sisters, and have no reason to fight. Your enemies are not the Japanese people, but our militarism and so-called patriotism. Patriotism and militarism are our mutual enemies."

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"If I should ever die, God forbid, let this be my epitaph:

THE ONLY PROOF HE NEEDED
FOR THE EXISTENCE OF GOD
WAS MUSIC"

- Kurt Vonnegut

JekyllnHyde's picture

@Mark from Queens

Besides, you're ignoring the tangible evidence, Mark. As everyone knows definitively, noted Russian spies Boris and Natasha were seen at the Trump Tower. Isn't that enough proof to convince you? /s

On a separate note, on the eve of the Wimbledon Tennis Championships Finals, I'm going to post another long historical diary. It is a remarkable story and involves championship tennis, two American players, one German player, and persecution in 1930s Nazi Germany. Stay tuned as I hope to post it hopefully by Saturday evening, or sometimes on Sunday.

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A riddle wrapped in a mystery inside an enigma

mimi's picture

@JekyllnHyde @JekyllnHyde

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Please donate to C99p so that the site can survive.

Amanda Matthews's picture

@mimi @Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal

me and let me know there’s a dupe snd if you posted first I’ll delete mine.

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I'm tired of this back-slapping "Isn't humanity neat?" bullshit. We're a virus with shoes, okay? That's all we are. - Bill Hicks

Politics is the entertainment branch of industry. - Frank Zappa

mimi's picture

@Amanda Matthews
forgot a day later. Sorry and no worries.

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Please donate to C99p so that the site can survive.

Mark from Queens's picture

@JekyllnHyde
Thanks!

Reading the Huxley book I mentioned upthread had me think of you.

One of the characters is a idealistic young scientist employed at the estate of a California oligarch in the 1930's who tells wistful stories about is involvement in the anarchist/socialist revolt in Spain. Made me think of Homage to Catalonia.

Didn't realize how much striking overlap and similarities Huxley seems to share with Orwell. About the same age, went to similar boarding schools for the precocious, had similar political views and then wrote two of the most powerful books of the 20th century, the premises upon which have both come to pass.

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"If I should ever die, God forbid, let this be my epitaph:

THE ONLY PROOF HE NEEDED
FOR THE EXISTENCE OF GOD
WAS MUSIC"

- Kurt Vonnegut

JekyllnHyde's picture

@Mark from Queens

Too many details to research, too many facts to double check, and not enough free time. I'll try to complete and post the essay in a couple days. Thanks.

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A riddle wrapped in a mystery inside an enigma

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@Mark from Queens holy shitballs, it would take serious guts for a Japanese person to say that.

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Actually, the issue at stake is patriotism. You must return to your world and put an end to the Commies. All it takes are a few good men.
--Q

Exit polls not involving George W. Bush or Hillary Clinton tend to be quite accurate.
--Doug Hatlem

Mark from Queens's picture

@Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal

about WW1, which started less than a decade after Jack London wrote those words:

"In bourgeois terms it was a war between the Allies and Germany. In Bolshevik terms it was a war between the Allied and German upper classes - and which of them won was a matter of indifference."

"The party looked to the conscript peasants. Most of them were in their first good pair of boots. When the boots wore out, they'd be ready to listen. When the time came, I was able to take three battalions with me out of the front lines; the best day's work I ever did."

"They [the warring powers] were shouting for victory all over Europe--praying for victory to the same God. My task--the Party's task--was to organize defeat. From defeat would spring the Revolution...and the Revolution would be victory for us."

[the camera shows a group of dejected-looking Russian soldiers in a trench, staring out across a snowy no-man's land during World War I as Yevgraf narrates]
Yevgraf: "By the second winter of the war, the boots had worn out... but the line still held. Their great coats fell to pieces on their backs. Their rations were irregular. Half of them went into action without arms, led by men they didn't trust."
Officer: [leaps up on top of trench with a saber drawn] Come on, you bastards!
Yevgraf: "And those they did trust..."
Pasha: [jumps out of the trench waving his rifle] Come on, comrades! Come on!
[the Russian soldiers hesitantly follow Pasha as the German guns open fire]
Pasha: Come on! Comrades! Earth-shakers! SHOW THEM!!! CHARGE!
[Pasha is hit by several artillery explosions; the rest of the Russian soldiers retreat back to their trench. Cut to Russian soldiers beginning to leave their trenches and desert.]
Yevgraf: "At last, they did what all the armies dreamed of doing - they began to go home. That was the beginning of the Revolution."

All of the sentiments in these scenes can be applied to any war.

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"If I should ever die, God forbid, let this be my epitaph:

THE ONLY PROOF HE NEEDED
FOR THE EXISTENCE OF GOD
WAS MUSIC"

- Kurt Vonnegut

Pluto's Republic's picture

@Mark from Queens

...you shared. It hit my brain like a branding iron.

But, then, so did Dostoyevsky. The Russians have mastered the deepest realms of psychology, but remain accessible. I guess that's why it was so simple to see through the Russian Hoax of 2016. You'd have to believe that Russians were the same kind of moron as you are, to fall for that nonsense.

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Human salvation lies in the hands of the creatively maladjusted.

— Martin Luther King

snoopydawg's picture

@Song of the lark
Are you saying that you think that Russia did affect the election or something else? It's not clear to me.

Russia might not be our friend, but I don't see that they are our enemy. It looks like it's this country that is being the aggressor with all the sanctions it keeps putting on them. What has Russia done to our country?

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"I will be the best, the best, you know, you know the thing!”
- Joe Biden

Grope and Hope

lotlizard's picture

@snoopydawg  
Perhaps Song of the Lark can clarify.

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jorogo's picture

@snoopydawg
"the Russians are not our friends" is outright xenophobic.

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"If I sit silently, I have sinned." - Mossadegh

lotlizard's picture

@jorogo  
Fill in the blank.

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Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@jorogo Well, that is another point. Even if we're talking about the Russian government, what exactly have they done to me that hurts me? Kept to a petroleum economy. That's about it.

What have they done to others that I decry, lately? And by lately, I mean post-1989. I'm making no excuses for the USSR.

Well, they're mainly run by gangsters, and that's not good. It's also not a lot different from what goes on here in the U.S.--it's just more out in the open. And they are homophobes, which is also not good.

However, with apologies to my LGBTQ sisters and brothers, I'm not willing to start WWIII because Russia has shitty attitudes toward homosexuals.

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Actually, the issue at stake is patriotism. You must return to your world and put an end to the Commies. All it takes are a few good men.
--Q

Exit polls not involving George W. Bush or Hillary Clinton tend to be quite accurate.
--Doug Hatlem

snoopydawg's picture

@jorogo

Russia might not be our friend, but I don't see that they are our enemy.

I find your accusation funny after all the comments I have made about Russia Gate since Hillary and John cooked it up. But maybe you are not aware of my comment history?

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"I will be the best, the best, you know, you know the thing!”
- Joe Biden

Grope and Hope

jorogo's picture

@snoopydawg
but about the comment you commented on.

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"If I sit silently, I have sinned." - Mossadegh

@jorogo
Why should they be our friends? What have we done for them?

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We are so screwed.

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@snoopydawg You mean because we, through NATO, have been massing troops on their western border for years now--including German troops, which is the most fucking provocative thing you could do to Russians?

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Actually, the issue at stake is patriotism. You must return to your world and put an end to the Commies. All it takes are a few good men.
--Q

Exit polls not involving George W. Bush or Hillary Clinton tend to be quite accurate.
--Doug Hatlem

Pluto's Republic's picture

@snoopydawg

Song of the lark has been nothing but consistent in his views for as long as he's been here.

That's a good thing. Conversations are possible.

People's feelings are sometimes hardwired by life's experiences. This is what we must adapt to going forward. Sometimes entire generations that have been harshly impacted by global events have to die off before positive change is possible. Evolution.

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Human salvation lies in the hands of the creatively maladjusted.

— Martin Luther King

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@Song of the lark I don't have time to worry about how dangerous the Russian government is to me. There are plenty of forces that will destroy my life before they get around to it, and most of them are based in the U.S.

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Actually, the issue at stake is patriotism. You must return to your world and put an end to the Commies. All it takes are a few good men.
--Q

Exit polls not involving George W. Bush or Hillary Clinton tend to be quite accurate.
--Doug Hatlem

gulfgal98's picture

@Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal

I don't have time to worry about how dangerous the Russian government is to me. There are plenty of forces that will destroy my life before they get around to it, and most of them are based in the U.S.
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"I don't want to run the empire, I want to bring it down!" ~Dr. Cornel West

@Song of the lark You can't expect countries to not work in their own self interest.

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dfarrah

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@dfarrah Except for the powerful in the United States, who apparently are quite capable of not acting in the interests of their "nation." Actually, this seems to be a trend throughout the English-speaking world: "Who the fuck cares what happens to America/Britain/Canada/Australia/New Zealand? The land, peoples, and traditions of those places can burn in hell for all we care. There's money to be made and wars to be fought."

It's like we're being run by Vizzini: "I've hired you to help me start a war. It's a prestigious line of work with a long and glorious tradition."

Although there is something definitely Humperdinkian about the powers-that-be in this country as well:

Count Rugen:
Your princess is quite a winning creature. A trifle simple, perhaps, but the appeal is undeniable.

Prince Humperdinck: I know, the people are quite taken with her. It's odd, but when I hired Vizzini to have her murdered on our engagement day, I thought that was clever. But it's going to be so much more moving when I strangle her on our wedding night. Once Guilder is blamed, the nation will truly be outraged - they'll demand we go to war.

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Actually, the issue at stake is patriotism. You must return to your world and put an end to the Commies. All it takes are a few good men.
--Q

Exit polls not involving George W. Bush or Hillary Clinton tend to be quite accurate.
--Doug Hatlem

detroitmechworks's picture

@Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal In our perfect little world, where everybody's anger and pain are medicated away...

Reminds me of another Princess Bride quote.

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I do not pretend I know what I do not know.

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@detroitmechworks I love that movie. Quotable at every turn.

I do think Wesley was more than a bit hard on Buttercup at that point, however; did he expect her never to marry when he was dead? It's not like she knew he was actually alive.

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Actually, the issue at stake is patriotism. You must return to your world and put an end to the Commies. All it takes are a few good men.
--Q

Exit polls not involving George W. Bush or Hillary Clinton tend to be quite accurate.
--Doug Hatlem

detroitmechworks's picture

@Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal in my Penelope Logos. (Which is Done, but I don't want to post it out of order. I'm working on the Gods now...)

And of course in the book, Fezzik's Mom is the one who gives this speech, when he's afraid of getting hurt in a wrestling match.

However, If I had been writing it, I would still have had Westley have a similar point... But the reason he's upset is because she's not marrying the prince for love, and doesn't like the cold and bitter woman she's become. Smile

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I do not pretend I know what I do not know.

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@detroitmechworks Nobody could marry Humperdink for love.

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Actually, the issue at stake is patriotism. You must return to your world and put an end to the Commies. All it takes are a few good men.
--Q

Exit polls not involving George W. Bush or Hillary Clinton tend to be quite accurate.
--Doug Hatlem

snoopydawg's picture

That our elections are the safest in the world from outside interference. Of course that was when Trump was saying that if he didn't win he wouldn't accept the results because they were rigged. @
Funny thing though is when Hillary lost the tune took a 180. Now imagine if it was Trump who lost the election and he said that it was because of outside interference from a foreign country. Would anyone have believed him especially after what Obama said about how safe our elections are? Of course not. They would think that he was just being a sore loser.

What the statement’s opening paragraph woefully ignores is the harsh reality that the U.S. political system is far less vulnerable to hacking attacks from any foreign source than the rest of the world’s nations are from such attacks by the United States—including surveillance of world leaders, such as the Obama administration’s tapping of Angela Merkel’s personal cellphone. The NSA probably gets an alert every time Putin snores.

BTW. Before the last election in Russia Putin kicked out all of our NGOs. This resulted in a huge decrease in protests before the election like they saw the last time he ran. The reason this country hates Putin so much is because he put a stop to this country's asset stripping of Russian resources after we installed Yeltsin. Oh yeah. This caused much consternation!

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"I will be the best, the best, you know, you know the thing!”
- Joe Biden

Grope and Hope

detroitmechworks's picture

@snoopydawg Remembering an old-truth which is no longer the truth is contrary to the spirit of right think.

And of un-right think is wrongthink. You wouldn't want to Wrongthink, would you?

Remember, what we said yesterday was an illusion perpetuated by your faulty memory. We always said that are elections are of the highest concern, and that any who discounted this are clearly Russian...

/snark

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I do not pretend I know what I do not know.

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@detroitmechworks I know, we were so worried about election integrity in 2000. And in 2004.

Maybe those were Russian plots too.

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Actually, the issue at stake is patriotism. You must return to your world and put an end to the Commies. All it takes are a few good men.
--Q

Exit polls not involving George W. Bush or Hillary Clinton tend to be quite accurate.
--Doug Hatlem

detroitmechworks's picture

@Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal Would absolutely be to agree that Senator McCarthy may have had a point... In fact, so might have anybody else who ever hated Russians! Clearly it's time to make an alliance with France in support of their Emperor!

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I do not pretend I know what I do not know.

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@detroitmechworks LMAO

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Actually, the issue at stake is patriotism. You must return to your world and put an end to the Commies. All it takes are a few good men.
--Q

Exit polls not involving George W. Bush or Hillary Clinton tend to be quite accurate.
--Doug Hatlem

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@detroitmechworks

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Actually, the issue at stake is patriotism. You must return to your world and put an end to the Commies. All it takes are a few good men.
--Q

Exit polls not involving George W. Bush or Hillary Clinton tend to be quite accurate.
--Doug Hatlem

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@detroitmechworks

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Actually, the issue at stake is patriotism. You must return to your world and put an end to the Commies. All it takes are a few good men.
--Q

Exit polls not involving George W. Bush or Hillary Clinton tend to be quite accurate.
--Doug Hatlem

lotlizard's picture

@detroitmechworks  
No more poisoning children’s minds with “Peter and the Wolf.”

We see through you now, Tchaikovsky.

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Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@snoopydawg Not only is it far more likely for the U.S. to interfere with other countries' elections than vice versa, it is far more likely for U.S. elections to be fucked with from within the U.S. That's the real story that's been completely occluded by this dangerous nonsense. You'll notice George W. Bush's election fraud and voter suppression have been neatly erased from history, and now he's our best friend fighting racism with us by disliking Donald Trump.

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Actually, the issue at stake is patriotism. You must return to your world and put an end to the Commies. All it takes are a few good men.
--Q

Exit polls not involving George W. Bush or Hillary Clinton tend to be quite accurate.
--Doug Hatlem

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal In other words, here's the question I'd like to ask all those who think that foreigners compromised our democratic process:

How do you trash a garbage house?

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Actually, the issue at stake is patriotism. You must return to your world and put an end to the Commies. All it takes are a few good men.
--Q

Exit polls not involving George W. Bush or Hillary Clinton tend to be quite accurate.
--Doug Hatlem

mimi's picture

@Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal
by cleaning it up?

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lotlizard's picture

@mimi  
By draining it.

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@Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal how much does foreign policy change over the years (except for Trump - who has been radical)?

Even if some world leaders were worried over Trump, why wouldn't they have concluded he would be a bumbling, ineffective idiot just like US citizens did during the election cycle?

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dfarrah

Amanda Matthews's picture

@Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal

Our elections have NEVER been ‘tamper proof’.

“You'll notice George W. Bush's election fraud and voter suppression have been neatly erased from history, and now he's our best friend fighting racism with us by disliking Donald Trump.”

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I'm tired of this back-slapping "Isn't humanity neat?" bullshit. We're a virus with shoes, okay? That's all we are. - Bill Hicks

Politics is the entertainment branch of industry. - Frank Zappa

put on his best gangsta routine...so use' guys want our protection? ya gotta pay more for it. Bugsy Moron. Needless to say, the majority said f*ck-off. They know he'll pull the plug on any agreement anyway.

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May we be united and strong -- laurel

lotlizard's picture

@QMS  
Migration across the Mediterranean and the Danube, not Russians advancing to the Rhine
seems to be the biggest threat to European stability and domestic tranquillity right now.

If NATO were serious about protecting Europe, you would think it would’ve been involved from the beginning, anticipating the current crisis and helping provide an effective E.U. external border patrol and coast guard.

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@QMS Please.

I am glad that he is questioning the arrangement and its existence.

And I thought people to the left didn't like Nato anyway.

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dfarrah

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@dfarrah At this point, what's to like?

A bunch of thugs hiding behind an outdated excuse for existence.

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Actually, the issue at stake is patriotism. You must return to your world and put an end to the Commies. All it takes are a few good men.
--Q

Exit polls not involving George W. Bush or Hillary Clinton tend to be quite accurate.
--Doug Hatlem

lotlizard's picture

@QMS  
Then it would be Trump’s adversaries — a globe-spanning network of neocons, neolibs, and Deep Staters — who are the Mob, trying to make an example of an interloper and outsider as a demonstration of naked power and a warning to everyone else not to get any funny, mavericky ideas.

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@lotlizard ( a poker term ). Yeah loti, understand. That was just a comment on his style of bully. Sounds cheap, but presented amerikan values are anyway, to the rest of us.

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May we be united and strong -- laurel

has not stopped at Stein or other public figures.

Dems are now saying that republicans are controlled by Russian. I read an article today at a liberal newspaper. I was shocked at the numerous accusations about repubs and Trump being under the control of Russia.

I guess McCarthy reigns again.

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dfarrah

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@dfarrah What's disgusting is watching people who used to consider themselves superior to McCarthy acting just like him.

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Actually, the issue at stake is patriotism. You must return to your world and put an end to the Commies. All it takes are a few good men.
--Q

Exit polls not involving George W. Bush or Hillary Clinton tend to be quite accurate.
--Doug Hatlem

@Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal gone completely wacko with this stuff.

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dfarrah

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@dfarrah My boyfriend says that the election of Trump is the liberals' version of 9/11--an excuse to go entirely mad, xenophobic, bloodthirsty, attacking everyone who doesn't agree with you as a traitor or a fifth column.

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Actually, the issue at stake is patriotism. You must return to your world and put an end to the Commies. All it takes are a few good men.
--Q

Exit polls not involving George W. Bush or Hillary Clinton tend to be quite accurate.
--Doug Hatlem

lotlizard's picture

@Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal  
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/15/opinion/trump-russia-investigation-pu...

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Mark from Queens's picture

@Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal
@dfarrah @dfarrah
Check out John Kiriakou's interview with Lee Camp, in which he recalls his recruitment during his college years - by his professor!

Re: Steinem. Very probable that she and others may have gotten a little visit (who says the KGB and Stasi or the Chinese secret police are the biggest manipulating henchmen in the world?). Think Moby admitted as much recently also, re: being suggested instructed that he propagate the Russian Red Herring Farce to all and sundry whenever possible.

Can't find it now but I seem to recall Hunter Thompson not being able to forgive Ken Kesey, I think it was, for selling out to the CIA.

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"If I should ever die, God forbid, let this be my epitaph:

THE ONLY PROOF HE NEEDED
FOR THE EXISTENCE OF GOD
WAS MUSIC"

- Kurt Vonnegut

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@Mark from Queens Moby...the musician???

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Actually, the issue at stake is patriotism. You must return to your world and put an end to the Commies. All it takes are a few good men.
--Q

Exit polls not involving George W. Bush or Hillary Clinton tend to be quite accurate.
--Doug Hatlem

Mark from Queens's picture

@Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal
Not sure who Pitchfork is, but this is according to them (includes video interview):
Moby Says CIA Agents Asked Him to Spread the Word About Trump and Russia

Believe me I was staggered, but not totally surprised.

This dude used to show up regularly at the gig I used to play on the Lower East Side every Monday night. Not only that, but he liked us so much he went home one night after sitting in on guitar and was inspired to pen a blog about the top ten things you must do while in NYC, including us as an entry and praising the night. And, he personally facilitated for us to play years ago at the Whitney Museum Art Party, of which he was a member of the board.

I suspect, like so many others, when he started depositing really big checks in his bank accounts that his Neoliberal symptoms just may have taken over.

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"If I should ever die, God forbid, let this be my epitaph:

THE ONLY PROOF HE NEEDED
FOR THE EXISTENCE OF GOD
WAS MUSIC"

- Kurt Vonnegut

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@Mark from Queens God damn it! And this was the guy who used to criticize Eminem for not being political enough? He was the one who finally thought Eminem had done well when he put this out (and he did; this was a brave critique):

It still gives me chills.

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Actually, the issue at stake is patriotism. You must return to your world and put an end to the Commies. All it takes are a few good men.
--Q

Exit polls not involving George W. Bush or Hillary Clinton tend to be quite accurate.
--Doug Hatlem

mhagle's picture

Makes me feel ill

Sad

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Marilyn

"Make dirt, not war." eyo

mimi's picture

'Russiagating', it is over who has the better naked chest and who makes better cars and who has more energy to sell to whom.

And Merkel says drinking coffee with Russia is better than drinking nothing with Mr. Badbehavior. And Merkels parents switched back and forth during her own childhood to being emigrants, leaving Sovjet controlled East Germany, and then being emigrants from capitalist and other bad attributes to post WWII Germany's system and returning from West Germany to cozy Uncle Russia controlled East Germany. I guess Merkels parents had given some thought about being puppets of Russians or being puppets of americano-phil West Germans, some of them beborn or surviving Nazis.

Uncle Vlad and Uncle Sam, both are nothing against killer extraordinaire Uncle Adolf.
So get a grip. We will survive Uncle Donald and the world is still turning and all your kids will just say to all those uncles "to hell with them". Good Riddance.

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Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@mimi I sure hope our grandchildren are able to resoundingly say "Fuck you" to the people who are engineering all this nonsense.

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Actually, the issue at stake is patriotism. You must return to your world and put an end to the Commies. All it takes are a few good men.
--Q

Exit polls not involving George W. Bush or Hillary Clinton tend to be quite accurate.
--Doug Hatlem

mimi's picture

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@mimi seem so logical and rational when they explain their positions, from Putin to this guy. 'These are the facts on the ground, we want this and this, someone else wants this or that, and we'll talk about it.'

They speak in a dry and straightforward manner.

They are completely different from the braying anti-Russians in the US.

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dfarrah

fakenews's picture

These truth moments come not frequently enough. Thank you Mr. Scheer. The last time I had a chance to whoop it up was the statement by Margot Kidder back in July of 2016 titled "My Fellow Americans: We are fools" - which probably would have pissed off the Democrat warmongers today...

Peace
FN

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"Democracy is technique and the ability of power not to be understood as oppressor. Capitalism is the boss and democracy is its spokesperson." Peace - FN

divineorder's picture

http://thehill.com/opinion/white-house/396969-ignore-the-spin-still-no-e...

Moreover, the efforts of the Russian operations detailed in these indictments do not establish a particularly significant impact on the election. When the Russians began this operation in 2016, we were already irreconcilably divided as a nation between the two least popular candidates ever to run for the White House. Thirteen trolls in St. Petersburg, or 12 military hackers in Moscow, certainly could spit into that raging ocean, but it remains highly unlikely to have had a material impact on the election.

And then, of course, Caitlin:

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A truth of the nuclear age/climate change: we can no longer have endless war and survive on this planet. Oh sh*t.

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

Good on Scheer.

I wonder what Robert Parry (rest his soul) thought?

As for the list, obviously Greenwald and Caitlin Johnstone are on that list, as is Jimmy Dore and his crew (I have no idea how Dore manages to remain part of TYT and talk so honestly about this issue). I think Matt Taibbi had second thoughts on all this nonsense. Debbie the Sane Progressive is, well, sane in a Wonko the Sane kind of way, on this topic.

Any others?

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Actually, the issue at stake is patriotism. You must return to your world and put an end to the Commies. All it takes are a few good men.
--Q

Exit polls not involving George W. Bush or Hillary Clinton tend to be quite accurate.
--Doug Hatlem

earthling1's picture

@Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal
visiting and commenting at various sites to get a feel for how mainstream online America thinks regarding Russiagate.
Breitbart is furious with the entire debacle. Stands to reason as they are, by and large, Trump supporters. They think it is all lies and distortions.
Zero Hedge, dyed in the wool Capitalists, also think it's all bullshit.
Common Dreams, the same, all lies designed to demonize Putin and Russia.
While there are a handful of dissenters and trolls at each site, they are shouted down with mostly facts but generally tolerated.
The only support for Russiagate seems to be from the establishment side of both parties, generally the RNC and the DNC. Of course, the alphabet agencies are pushing for world domination and support anything that may help that along.
What I find amazing is that from one side of the political spectrum to the other the concensus is the same. Our government is filled with double-paid actors who are not working for the American people.
At some point, all these historically opposing factions will coalesce into one big angry mob. And all hell will break loose.
This deceit cannot go on much longer.

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After six years, still getting robo-calls from Marriot Hotels.
They're like herpes.

Mark from Queens's picture

@earthling1
Confirming again that, as with the majority of people who don’t vote because they believe it is a fraud, the majority views of this Russiagate farce are the same.

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"If I should ever die, God forbid, let this be my epitaph:

THE ONLY PROOF HE NEEDED
FOR THE EXISTENCE OF GOD
WAS MUSIC"

- Kurt Vonnegut

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@earthling1 That's a lot of work, and a lot of willingness to expose yourself to an increasingly toxic public discourse, so muchas gracias.

Post-2016 USA is making the political realignment obvious for anyone with open eyes. It's the Clinton-Bush Banker Oil Baron Military Industrial Gang. Sort of like the Black Mountain Scorpion Hoedown Bluegrass Experience Gang.

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Actually, the issue at stake is patriotism. You must return to your world and put an end to the Commies. All it takes are a few good men.
--Q

Exit polls not involving George W. Bush or Hillary Clinton tend to be quite accurate.
--Doug Hatlem

@earthling1 straightened up? I stopped reading them last year when they seemed to have gone all in on it. Might be worth another look.
Thanks.

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Ya got to be a Spirit, cain't be no Ghost. . .

Explain Bldg #7. . .

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